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Panzerknacker
02-19-2007, 08:13 PM
Gallery of images and combat stories of this Mighty AFV, in my opinion the best tank in WW2.

http://i1.tinypic.com/v83ep5.jpg

Panzerknacker
02-19-2007, 08:21 PM
"Somewhere in the Eastern front."

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9610/304pt.jpg


http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5671/310ss.jpg


http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/8154/326et.jpg

Gen. Sandworm
02-20-2007, 02:56 AM
Had to go with the Tiger 2. Even thou a complete waste of resources ...... was a mean tank. Not alot made but the fear factor on the battle field was immense. It was not a tide turner only 485 and 9 prototypes were made. Still awesome tank IMO.

Panzerknacker
02-20-2007, 10:47 AM
Yea, the Tiger II was a scary vehicle, the gun could penetrate every armored vehicle in service from 2000 meters, unfortunately for the germans the transmition gear and engine were not very reliable.


Tiger 1 in action, blasting some T-34.

http://i9.tinypic.com/29ur861.jpg

Strina-Croatia
02-20-2007, 11:15 AM
Anyway the Tiger remaind a legend......

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
02-20-2007, 07:11 PM
Great tanks...but unfortunately the crews constantly cursed them of constant repairs...

How would the Commanders Coppula work in the Tiger 1?

Also, was there any additional armor made for the Tiger? Such as side plating, turret plating, etc.

Panzerknacker
02-20-2007, 07:38 PM
The Tiger 1 and 2 did not use the "schurzen" of any other aditional armor, sometimes spare track were placed in those areas.


Tiger II (ausf b) from Kampfgruppe Peiper, Belgium december 1944.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3629/008tondorf3closebb3.jpg



http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4465/008fttondorffilmwp1.jpg

GermanSoldier
02-21-2007, 08:25 AM
My vote is going to the King Tiger II because I thank it is more improved then both of the King Tiger I. I thank this tank helped the third reich alot. Maybe one of Hitlers most impressive tank, but that is just my opinion.
This tank is my favorite of the German Armys Tanks.
The concept is basiacally the same as the King Tiger I, but is more formidable. The Armour is made of the armour of the King Tiger I and the Panther giving well thick armour for battle. This tank was the ultimate tank destroyer feared by the armys that heard its engine roaring. The Tiger II weighed 68.5 [the turret] to 69.8 [production turret] tons, it was protected by 150-180mm of frontal armor, and was armed with a 88mm KwK 43 L/47 gun.

The very heavy armor and powerful long-range gun gave the Tiger II the advantage against virtually all opposing tanks. This was especially true on the Western Front. Where the United States and British forces have almost no heavy tanks which would oppose it. In a defensive position it was difficult to kill. Offensively it performed with less succes, and its performance was a great disapointment to Hitler when it first saw action.

The Tiger II performed very well against allied and soviet tanks being able to kill the M4 Sherman, M26 Pershing and IS-2 at respectively 2500m, 1800m, and 1200m. The Tiger II was widely phototgraphed for its size and propaganda value.

http://i16.tinypic.com/2s9380p.jpg

George Eller
02-21-2007, 02:30 PM
-

Mostly Modern Color Video Clips:

Pzkw VI TIGER I

German Tiger tank No 131 at the
Bovington Tank Museum. It is the
only Tiger I left that is capable
of running under its own power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mihak7XPcQ

Bovington UK 1943 Tiger Tank working restored original.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzLRbDzk3mk

Bovington Tiger 2006 scene 1 by Vince Abbott
Tiger I running at Tankfest 2006 in Bovington, England.
The rebuilt engine is running smoothly and shows how the
Tiger would have sounded during the war.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3I1dj7SJ0A

Bovington Tiger 2006 scene 2 by Vince Abbott
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPdEtq_INh0

Bovington Tiger 2006 scene 3 by Vince Abbott
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KmvVQn5m-k

Tiger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1JKd6hiCu4

Tiger Tank 131
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDTtBEdKVqI

Tiger 131 again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DArKBhOlwAY

Tiger 131 Backing Up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17zhWLY5kPA

Tankfest 2006 - Tiger 131
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2ecuTygoow

Panzer VI (Tiger 1) and Panzer III at Tankfest 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Xc7M-N9nw

Inside a German Tiger I tank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFzlZbfpQUo

-

Pzkw VI B King Tiger / Tiger II

Tiger II. in Aberdeen Proving Grounds
8mm movie film taken when 332 arrived at APG in the summer of 1945
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34GezMHX77w

Königstiger 104 is dragged out of one of the halls at Bovington Tank Museum,
17th June 2003.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEpADL9MI9Y

A restored King Tiger driving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSmgMzFdv4M

Tiger II tank - restored & running
From the Musee de Blindes in Saumur, France this footage is of the last running Tiger II panzer.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7696001690439086249&pr=goog-sl

Musee de Blindes in Saumur, France
www.musee-des-blindes.asso.fr
http://www.musee-des-blindes.asso.fr/2blindes/2jpresent.htm

-

DORA 12
02-21-2007, 07:51 PM
Hi Panzerknacker,

thanks for the welcome, is it the Belgrano you are displaying ?

I would go for the TigerI since it was already proofen and far more reliable then the Tiger II.

My personal favorit though is the Jagdpanther.

Dora 12

Panzerknacker
02-21-2007, 07:55 PM
Nice videos, Despite the years wich had passed from the WW2 the Tiger, specially the Tiger II, is a impressive vehicle.



thanks for the welcome, is it the Belgrano you are displaying ?



Actually is the heavy cruiser ARA Almirante Brown.

Panzerknacker
02-21-2007, 08:18 PM
Some details about the first Tiger.

Tiger 1 Porsche and his variants.

On May 26th of 1941, during the meeting concerning the development of new weaponry, Adolf Hitler ordered both Dr.Porsche and Henschel to supply their designs for a heavy tank, which was to be ready in the summer of 1942.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5492/22yb.jpg


The new 45-ton panzer was to be armed with a 88mm KwK L/56 mounted in a turret designed by Krupp. Development of Porsche's Tiger was progressing much faster than that of Henschel since Porsche worked on an independent project for heavy tank since autumn of 1940. Henschel was not that advanced and utilized as many already available components from its previous projects to complete its VK 4501 design.

In order to speed up the development of VK4501(P), components of VK 3001(P) were modified and used. The suspension was modified version of the suspension used in the VK 3001(P) prototype. It was made up of six road-wheels and lacked return rollers. Tracks had 109 links per side and were 640mm wide with track surface contact of 4175mm (4.175m). Tiger(P) was powered by two (air-cooled) Porsche Typ 101/1 engines mounted in the rear part of the hull.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6165/posche15tt.jpg

Gasoline engines drove electrical generators, which drove two electric motors, which provided power to the tracks.Gasoline engines were produced with defects and were repaired but remained unreliable, while electric system used copper, which was a critical war material.

Drive sprocket was in the rear instead of the standard location at the front. Electric transmission system was used similar to that of VK 3001(P).Overall gasoline-electric power/drive system with which many problems were encountered (such as engine fire) was utilized. Its power/weight distribution limited its cross-country performance and during trials, VK4501(P) prototype was often bogged down (especially in the soft ground) and had to be towed away by recovery vehicles.....

Panzerknacker
02-23-2007, 08:21 AM
Tiger porsche continue...

The contest agaist the Henschel Tiger.

Both, Henschel and Porsche's prototypes arrived to a station near Rastenburg on April 19th of 1942 and then traveled 11km to Rastenburg, while constantly breaking down.On April 20th of 1942 at 11:00am, both Porsche and Henschel prototypes were presented to Adolf Hitler (on his birthday) in Wolfschanze (Rastenburg), East Prussia.

Tests were scheduled for July and preliminary tests proved that the Tiger(P)'s design was far from being perfect and modifications were made, but none of the technical problems were fully solved from the lack time. Both VK4501(P) and VK4501(H) were armed with powerful 88mm KwK 36 L/56 gun, developed from 88mm Flak 36 L/56 gun.

Tiger P in Rastenburg.

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/4682/tigre8rr.jpg

Originally, Krupp designed and produced the turret for Porsche's VK4501, but then it was modified and used by Henschel's VK4501. The first eight turrets produced had lower sides and a flat roof with raised centre section to allow the gun to be depressed through larger arc.

Tiger(P) had its turret mounted forward, what also made the operating in enclosed areas dangerous. In July of 1942, both prototypes were put to the extensive tests at the tank school in Berka, Germany. During the tests, Porsche's VK 4501(P) was a failure, while Henschel's VK 4501(H) was a great success. Main failure of Porsche's design laid in its advanced power and drive system, which was prone to breakdowns and required continuous maintenance. Also Tiger(P) was longer than its competitor, what made it less maneuverable.

Several Pics of the test in the Posche Tiger. The turret is pointing rearwards.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5430/tigre14no.jpg


http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4906/tigre22qq.jpg

The tracks in the Tiger P were narrower than the Henschel Tiger "combat tracks".

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/913/tigre31he.jpg

In July of 1942, Henschel Tiger - VK 4501(H) was approved and went into production. Only five Tiger(P) were fully completed in July of 1942 by Nibelungenwerke with armored parts supplied by Krupp, before the production was stopped in August of 1942 (chassis number 150001-150010).

But beside the Porsches s defeat, production of 90 pre-production VK4501(P) chassis started. Production of pre-production chassis continued, and in early September of 1942, it was decided to equip two sPzAbts (including sPzAbt 501) destined for North Africa with Tiger(P)s. This decision was made simply because of the stage of development and the fact that Tiger(P)'s engines were air-cooled. Once again unresolved problem of technical unreliability led to the cancellation of the production. Those chassis were used for the Ferdinand- Elefant jagdpanzer.

Panzerknacker
02-23-2007, 08:24 AM
Esqueme of the gasoline electrical transmition.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2419/transmision8sm.jpg


Only one completed Tiger(P) with chassis number 150013 saw combat service as a command tank - Panzerbefehlswagen VI(P) with schwere Heeres Panzerjager Abteilung 653.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/4738/posche38uo.jpg


It was used by its commander, Hauptmann Grillenberg (turret number 003), on the Eastern Front in early/mid of 1944.

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/6852/tigp0031bi.jpg


http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/779/tigre53se.jpg

Caracteristics.

Weight: 58 500kg
Crew: 5 men
Engine: 2 x Porsche Typ 101/1 / V10 / 320hp
Fuel Capacity: 520 litres
Speed: Road: 20-35km/h
Cross-Country: 8-10km/h
Range: Road: 80-110km
Cross-Country: 48-50km
Lenght: 9.34m (with the gun)
6.70m (w/o the gun)
Width: 3.38m (with the aprons)
3.14m (w/o the aprons)
Height: 2.80m
Armament: 88mm KwK 36 L/56 & 2 x 7.92mm MG34
Ammo: 88mm - 64-80 rounds
7.92mm - 4350 rounds
Armor (mm/angle):
Front Turret: 100/8
Front Superstructure: 100/12
Front Hull: 100/35
Side Turret: 80/0
Side Superstructure: 80/0
Side Hull: 60/0
Rear Turret: 80/0
Rear Hull: 80/0
Top / Bottom Turret: 25/81 / 25/90
Top / Bottom Superstructure: 20/90
Top / Bottom Hull: 20/90
Gun Mantlet: 100-110/0

Panzerknacker
02-23-2007, 08:25 AM
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6228/tigre66qh.jpg

Cojimar 1945
02-23-2007, 02:45 PM
The armor protection of the German tanks seemed to be less than what I might have expected for vehicles of such size.

The Tiger II apparently weighed over 69 metric tons yet had an 88 mm gun which is smaller than the guns on some other tanks that are far lighter such as the Pershing and IS 2. This seems rather odd.

Panzerknacker
02-23-2007, 04:59 PM
Probably true in the comparative with the IS-2, the big reason was that the Tiger II had 5 crewmen and the russian tank just 4 so some space ( and then armor weight) was saved.

Other is that...the Tiger had too many steel on it specially in the front. 180 mm and 150mm in the hull.

The tiger 1 Porsche was heavier than the Henschel because his complicated engines wich had a ridiculously big amount of copper on it because the electric drive.

Ace Tankkiller
02-24-2007, 12:55 AM
Very nice article on the Tiger l Porsche Panzerknacker.Did not realize that the Tiger 1(P) actually seen service.You have an idea how successful Hauptmann Grillenberg was in it?

Panzerknacker
02-24-2007, 08:40 AM
Thanks Acetankkiller, is a interesting vehicle, there is no much info about it saw some combat in Poland and probably destroyed some russian armor, I going to search for more.

Porsche over his Tiger.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/370/porsche10ej.jpg

Nickdfresh
02-24-2007, 09:51 AM
King Tiger? Ppfffftttt....

What use is a tank that you can't drive across a bridge with?

The height of folly and wasted resources resulting from Hitler's Freudian nightmares...

Panzerknacker
02-24-2007, 04:36 PM
The (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/image001.jpg) Tiger I and II had some fording equipment to allow pass trough 2,1 meters of water, the early Tiger 1 carried a deep fording gadget with a snorkel wich allowed more than 4 meters fording.

Tiger 1 Henschel V1 with deep fording apparatus.





The height of folly and wasted resources resulting from Hitler's Freudian nightmares



More likely from his wagnerian dreams.

Panzerknacker
02-25-2007, 04:20 PM
A very good site about the Henschel Tiger 1 and his armament, no much to add to Fabian prado website, just that the requeriment to the Tiger 1 was first stated by Hitler in may 1941, so is not a response to the T-34. Obviously the menace of the russian tanks speed up the development.

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm

Torque
02-25-2007, 08:40 PM
A very good site about the Henschel Tiger 1 and his armament, no much to add to Fabian prado website, just that the requeriment to the Tiger 1 was first stated by Hitler in may 1941, so is not a response to the T-34. Obviously the menace of the russian tanks speed up the development.

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm


Nice site Panzerknacker. Thanks for the link.

Panzerknacker
02-26-2007, 06:29 PM
Thanks welcome to our forum torque, nice Bader picture there.


Tiger 1 tru water.




http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/1305/0535ks.jpg



http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/1756/0541dt.jpg




http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/28/0526uj.jpg



http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/5158/05614dg.jpg

jaddik
02-27-2007, 03:30 AM
i like the tiger tank but it is so big

Ace Tankkiller
02-27-2007, 09:13 AM
What is a person to do if it gets stuck?Would be a major bummer and embarrassing.

Flammpanzer
02-27-2007, 10:08 AM
What is a person to do if it gets stuck?Would be a major bummer and embarrassing.

well, this is not a specific problem of heavy tanks. for 2 years, I served as a gunner and later as squad leader on the bundeswehr APC marder 1a3 and during exercises, the vehicles often got stuck in mud - it`s combat weight is about "only" 35 tons with 600hp on the other side. the cross-road ability of an (old) AVF should not be overestimated, I have seen weird things regarding that. then it will be pulled out by another tank, often by a so called "bergepanzer" (recovery-tank). in wartimes a dangerous action to do.

jens

Panzerknacker
02-27-2007, 06:23 PM
When the Tiger 1 enterd in service in 1942 there was no an adecuate revovery vehcle for it.

Generally if a Tiger get stuck then 2 or even 3 Sd.Kfz 9 heavy tractors were used to get him out.

SdKfz 9 towing pz III.

http://www.panzerworld.net/pictures/00024.jpg



then it will be pulled out by another tank, often by a so called "bergepanzer" (recovery-tank). in wartimes a dangerous action to do.


In 1943 the best recovery vehicle for the heavy tanks entered in service, that was the BergePanther. In this image we can see a Tiger recovered under artillery fire.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2614/dibujoid0.jpg

GermanSoldier
02-27-2007, 07:53 PM
Excellent King Tiger tank pictures I found.
http://i15.tinypic.com/2afbrzq.jpg
http://i18.tinypic.com/2qvd3cn.jpg
http://i12.tinypic.com/441c84n.jpg

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
02-28-2007, 11:22 AM
I have a few questions...

-Where was the drivers veiw-slit in the Tiger II? Would this be similiar to the later Panthers with a periscope?

-Was the drivers veiw-slit ajustable in the Tiger I? Or does it just have a unique look to it?

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-01-2007, 07:21 AM
Thankyou very much!

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-01-2007, 07:28 AM
Oh yes, sorry for double-posting, but was there a difference between 2 the AP MGs in the Tiger I and II? (Radio-Operators and Gunners)

Also, if there was an AP or AA MG mounted above the copula/hatch of the tank, would the commander be in charge of it?

mkenny
03-01-2007, 12:36 PM
I have a few questions...

-Was the drivers veiw-slit ajustable in the Tiger I? Or does it just have a unique look to it?


Yes it did adjust. You could make it smaller or close it up.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e312/schwere/crossection0004.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e312/schwere/crossection0006.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e312/schwere/crossection0005.jpg



Oh yes, sorry for double-posting, but was there a difference between 2 the AP MGs in the Tiger I and II? (Radio-Operators and Gunners)

Also, if there was an AP or AA MG mounted above the copula/hatch of the tank, would the commander be in charge of it?

Both MG's were the same model that had an armoured barrell. It was not the type issued to infantry units. One of the 2 MG's had to be dismounted to attach to the coupla. There was no 'third' AA MG issued to Tiger crews

Ace Tankkiller
03-01-2007, 06:50 PM
Thanks mkenny,those are nice pictures.

Panzerknacker
03-02-2007, 07:18 PM
Good images Mckenny

First tigers on the Eastern Front:




The first appearance of the Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) on the Eastern Front was unsuccessful. The first Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) were issued to the 1st platoon of the 502 Battalion of Heavy Tanks (Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502). On the 29th of August 1942, the four Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) arrived at the Mga railway station near Leningrad. Early that day, the tanks were unloaded and prepared for battle. At 11:00 AM, the Tigers went into their battle positions. Major Richard Merker commanded the platoon, which included four Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm), six PzKpfw III Ausf. L and J (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz8.htm), two infantry companies and several trucks of the technical support unit. A representative of the Henshel firm - Hans Franke accompanied this unit in a VW Kubelwagen right behind the first Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm). After the attack, the error in trying to use the heavy Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) in ground so soft was realized, for their maneuverability was hampered.


The elephant badge of the S.Pz.Abt 502:





The Russian infantry retreated, and their artillery opened heavy fire to cover the troops. Major Merker's unit, divided into two groups, started to attack on two parallel side roads. Very soon the first Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) was abandoned because of transmission failure. The second one was abandoned a few minutes later after engine failure. In spite of Russian fire, the Henschel representative started to inspect the tanks, but very soon Merker came by with his Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) and said that the third tank was disabled because the steering control failed. During the night, all three damaged Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) were evacuated using Sd Kfz 9 prime movers-three per tank. Fortunately for the Germans, the Russians could not take any action to capture the disabled tanks. After the inspection, spare parts for the Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) were delivered by plane from the Henshel plant in Kassel and on the 15th of September all four Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) were repaired and ready for action.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/zzz/sPzAbt502-2.jpg



The second action of the Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) was no better than the first. On the 22nd of September, four Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm), supported by PzKpfw III (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz8.htm) tanks, were to accompany the 170th Infantry Division in attacking the 2nd Soviet Army. The terrain was very bad, the ground was too soft after the rains, and Major Merker opposed the use of Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) in this operation. After a direct order from Hitler, the Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) went into battle. Very soon after the attack began, the first Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) received a direct hit in the front armor plate. The shell did not penetrate, but the engine stopped and there was no time to restart it. The crew abandoned the Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) and threw hand grenades into the fighting compartment. The other three Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) reached the Russian trenches, but very soon were damaged by Russian artillery crossfire as they lost maneuverability on the soft ground. Later on, the three Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) were evacuated, and German engineers destroyed the fourth in order to prevent its capture.





General Guderian (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen2.htm): "It was not only the heavy losses, it was the loss of secrecy and suprise in the future".

The Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) were successful in their third battle. On the 12th of January 1943, the 502nd supported the 96th Infantry Division opposing an attack of Russian tanks. Four Tigers destroyed 12 T-34/76 (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/t34.htm) tanks and the rest of the Soviet tanks were forced to retreat.





On the 16th of January 1943, the Russians captured their first Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) during a German attack near the Shlisselburg on the Leningrad front. The captured tank was immediately delivered to the Kubinka Proving Grounds and inspected by Soviet Engineers. The Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) was no longer a new secret weapon

by Dmitry Pyatakhin Edited by Joe Koss & George Parada

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-02-2007, 07:52 PM
I'm sorry, but didn't the first Tigers appear in North Africa? At El Alamain? Or did you just mean the first Tigers to appear on the Eastern Front?

Panzerknacker
03-03-2007, 04:08 PM
Actually not, they came to Afrika a little later in October-november 1942.

Tiger in Tunis.

http://i3.tinypic.com/voqxwi.jpg

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-03-2007, 04:58 PM
Oh thankyou! I find myself mistaken...must get better accurate information...

*Stuffs face in WWII History Encyclopedia*

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-04-2007, 06:39 PM
Oooo pretty! (LOL)

I think it had an interesting design..but what was that weird housing on the back of the turret? A radio or something? Almost every German Panzer had one except the Panther...

Jenkin
03-05-2007, 08:50 PM
the Russian tank busters would shread these to dust, check them out and relating pictures with tiger tanks having no rear due to it is simply fragmated.

Panzerknacker
03-05-2007, 09:25 PM
but what was that weird housing on the back of the turret


Is a pistol port.



the Russian tank busters would shread these to dust, check them out and relating pictures with tiger tanks having no rear due to it is simply fragmated.


Yes sure jenkin: :rolleyes:



The 13.(Tiger) Kompanie, of Panzer Regiment Großdeutschland, reported on the armor protection of the Tiger: "During a scouting patrol two Tigers encountered about 20 Russian tanks on their front, while additional Russian tanks attacked from behind. A battle developed in which the armor and weapons of the Tiger were extraordinarily successful. Both Tigers were hit (mainly by 76.2 mm armor-piercing shells) 10 or more times at ranges from 500 to 1,000 meters. The armor held up all around. Not a single round penetrated through the armor. Also hits in the running gear, in which the suspension arms were torn away, did not immobilize the Tiger. While 76.2 mm anti-tank shells continuously struck outside the armor, on the inside, undisturbed, the commander, gunner, and loader selected targets, aimed, and fired. The end result was 10 enemy tanks knocked out by two Tigers within 15 minutes" (JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; op. cit.).


http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Tiger1-2002-Picz/Tiger1_FrontHit.jpg



On July 7th of 1943, single Tiger tank commanded by SS-Oberscharfuehrer Franz Staudegger from 2nd Platoon of 13th Panzer Company of 1st SS Panzer Grenadier Division "LSSAH" engaged Soviet group of some 50 T-34 tanks around Psyolknee (southern sector of the Kursk salient). Staudegger used up his entire ammunition after destroying some 22 Soviet tanks, while the rest retreated. For his achievement, Franz Staudegger was awarded the Knight's Cross

Panzerknacker
03-05-2007, 09:34 PM
And more, image of a very weary shoot out Tiger, this tank withstand 227 shots of 14,5 mm AT rifle, 14 shots of 57 mm and 11 of 76,2mm, none go trough.

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-05-2007, 09:49 PM
Is a pistol port.

Isn't the pistol port on the left rear of the turret and was later replaced with a second escape hatch?

I'm talking about the strange extra add on to the direct rear of the turret...

...Or am I just completely lost? (LOL...may very well be :D)

Ace Tankkiller
03-06-2007, 12:57 AM
And more, image of a very weary shoot out Tiger, this tank withstand 227 shots of 14,5 mm AT rifle, 14 shots of 57 mm and 11 of 76,2mm, none go trough.

That tiger looks like it needs a new paintjob :mrgreen:

Panzerknacker
03-06-2007, 06:08 PM
Isn't the pistol port on the left rear of the turret and was later replaced with a second escape hatch?

I'm talking about the strange extra add on to the direct rear of the turret...



I am loosed, you better point it in a pic so I can help you.



That tiger looks like it needs a new paintjob

And perhaps some change in underwear :mrgreen:


Another pic of a Tiger belong to the S. Pz.Abt 501, that particular vehicle arrived to Afrika in November 1942. The Tiger deployed in this teather achieved a kill-loss ratio of 25-1.

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-06-2007, 06:36 PM
I = Pistol Port

II = Strange Rear Thing

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s81/GermanWW2/312_04.jpg

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-06-2007, 06:38 PM
Ah yes, and would the helmets on the tank belong to the crew? Because I know German Tankers never wore any leather helmets...

Ace Tankkiller
03-06-2007, 06:54 PM
I bet a tiger was a pain to kill in Africa,such a monster.

Panzerknacker
03-06-2007, 06:55 PM
That is just another box for spares/tools /rations, etc.




Ah yes, and would the helmets on the tank belong to the crew? Because I know German Tankers never wore any leather helmets...


It belongs to the crew, is was a good choice if you had to abandon the Tiger and faced artillery fire. Sometimes steel helmet were used when the crew had to fough dismounted. No leather helmet were provided to panzercrewmen just fabric caps.

Wittman 88 kill.

http://www.wargamer.com/Hosted/Panzer/witt12.jpg


Tiger of the S.Pz.Abt 503 being towed by 2 Sd.Kfz 9 Famo haltracks, that were posible only in flat terrain.

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/7731/tigertunezfk9.jpg

Panzerknacker
03-07-2007, 07:32 PM
Interesting "gun art" in This Tiger:


http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9241/0215mm.jpg

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-09-2007, 06:10 PM
Haha! I love that photo!!! I wonder if any Allied tank crewmen ever stared down that barrel...

GermanSoldier
03-12-2007, 08:27 PM
Tiger Tanks in Africa
http://i11.tinypic.com/4cuvz8o.jpg

Tiger tank on the western front
http://i12.tinypic.com/3z8w1ad.jpg
Tiger tank on the Eastern front.
http://i14.tinypic.com/4gjb9sp.jpg

Colored picture of a Tiger Tank
http://i17.tinypic.com/4540etc.jpg

Hoped you enjoyed them Panzerknacker!

Panzerknacker
03-13-2007, 05:11 PM
Nice pics but:


Tiger Tanks in Africa
http://i11.tinypic.com/4cuvz8o.jpg


The King Tiger did not participate in the African battles, in 1944 when this AFV entered in service the war in that continent was already over.

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-13-2007, 05:56 PM
Possibly that photo was taken in a steppe during the Eastern Campaigns?

Panzerknacker
03-13-2007, 06:12 PM
I think those are calibrating their 88mm guns before the deliver to the S.PZ.Abt.

http://www.aberjonapress.com/catalog/sh/maps.html


Here, King Tigers conduct gunnery exercises. These are from the 3d Company,
Heavy Tank Battalion 503, which received new King Tigers in July 1944. The tank
in the foreground has the Porsche turret, as did 12 of the 14 initially issued
to the company; the other two had the more common Henschel turret.

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Tiger-2-2002-Picz/KTiger-in-German-town.jpg

Ace Tankkiller
03-13-2007, 06:27 PM
I think those are calibrating their 88mm guns before the deliver to the S.PZ.Abt.

http://www.aberjonapress.com/catalog/sh/maps.html



http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Tiger-2-2002-Picz/KTiger-in-German-town.jpg

Porsche turret was cooler :cool:

Also very nice link

Panzerknacker
03-13-2007, 06:34 PM
Probably it does , but it had a little disanvantage, the round mantlet create a "shot trap" behind the gun and deflect the incoming proyectiles to the drives top armor.

http://www.wing21.rtaf.mi.th/wboard/165254819413.jpg


And it had "just" 110 mm steel compared with 180mm of armor in Tiger II H turret

GermanSoldier
03-13-2007, 06:36 PM
Nice pics but:




The King Tiger did not participate in the African battles, in 1944 when this AFV entered in service the war in that continent was already over.

Oh my gosh I am sorry I posted wrong information! I keep doing it, I need to stop!
So if I may correct my self that picture seems like it came from the Eastern Campaign. Probably during the summer. Sorry for giving the viewers wrong information.

Panzerknacker
03-18-2007, 06:15 PM
3 stages in the change of a wide track in Tiger 1 H.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4300/tiger11uv2.jpg


http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1418/tiger12lc8.jpg



http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/8026/tiger13yp0.jpg


The data in january 1944, somewhere in the Eastern Fornt.

Ace Tankkiller
03-18-2007, 09:08 PM
That looks painful to change a track in the middle of winter,note lot of them have their hands in thier pockets afterwards.

Panzerknacker
03-19-2007, 09:39 PM
Yeap, probably the tankers would miss a heavy gloves for that task.


The Tiger also used a 660 mm narrow track but just to use over hard ground and railway transport, never in combat.

Panzerknacker
03-23-2007, 06:37 PM
Otto Carius Tiger ace:


Otto Carius
(May 27, 1922)

http://www.sigruneuk.com/pictures/AU020.jpg

Otto Carius was born on May 27th of 1922 in Zweibrucken, Rheinland-Pfalz in Southwest Germany. Just as he graduated from school, World War II broke out and he volunteered for 104th Infantry Placement Battalion in May of 1940. Following training, he was assigned to the 21st Panzer Regiment and experienced his first battle as a loader on a Panzer 38(t) (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pzcz.htm) during the "Barbarossa" operation in June of 1941. After about a year of war experience on the Eastern Front, Carius was accepted in an Officer Candidate Course and following its completion, was assigned to the 502nd Heavy Tank Battalion in April of 1943.

Equipped with the new Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) tanks, he was assigned as a tank commander to the 2nd Company of 502nd Tank Battalion. That summer, the 2nd Company was deployed to the Russian Leningrad Front and took part in several operations in that area. During that time, 502nd Tank Battalion was ordered to reinforce the front along with 11th SS Freiwillige Panzergrenadier Division "Nordland" at Narva Bridgehead.

During one of his engagements, Carius destroyed four Soviet SU-85s and successfully withdrew without losses. In June of 1944, the company was transferred to Dunaburg (Daugavpils in Latvia) to defend the city from a concentrated Russian offensive.

In the July of 1944, Russians outflanked the German defensive lines via the motorways west of Minsk and Borissov to Witebsk (same route was used by Germans in 1941). By using tanks in vast numbers, Soviets intended to divide the German occupied territory into small salients and then take port city of Riga. Since Riga is situated at the mouth of Dvina River, Dunaburg was an important strategic point for both Germans and Russians.

On July 22 of 1944, 1st Lieutenant Otto Carius with his company of eight (early and mid production) Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) advanced towards village of Malinava (northern suburb of Dunaburg) in order to halt the Russian advance. 1st Lieutenant Otto Carius and 1st Lieutenant Albert Kerscher (one of the most decorated commanders of sPzAbt 502) took a Kubelwagen in order to check if the village was already occupied by Russians.

They discovered that village of Malinava was already occupied by the enemy. Carius recognized that the Russian tanks in the village were only advance troops waiting for the main force to arrive. He decided to recapture the village before the arrival of reinforcements. Carius returned to his company for briefing and explained his plan to take the village.

He decided to attack the village using only two tanks because there was only one road leading to the village and rushing all of his Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) would be dangerous. Six Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) remained in the reserve while Carius and Kerscher's Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) moved towards the village of Malinava. Speed was the essence of Carius' strategy and it was decisive to upset Russians and immobilize their tanks.

When Carius' Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) No.217 was about to enter the village, two T-34/85 (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/t34.htm) tanks were observed rotating their turrets. At this moment, Kerscher's Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) No.213 which followed Carius at about 150m, fired and knocked them out. Also for the first time, Otto Carius encountered Russian's latest JS-1 (or possibly JS-2) heavy tank. Its silhouette was somewhat similar to the German King Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz5.htm) and Carius was confused at first but after hesitating a bit, he fired and JS-1 burst into flames. Afterwards, Otto Carius recalls that the entire battle did not last more than 20 minutes. In such a short time, Carius and Kerscher's Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) knocked out 17 Russian tanks including the new JS-1. Although the Russians were attacked by suprise, Carius' quick and accurate recognition of the situation and the excellent tactics used were the main factors in the outcome. Carius' achievement at Malinava is equally outstanding to Michael Wittmann (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen3.htm)'s achievement at Villers-Bocage.

In November of 1943, Otto Carius destroyed 10 Soviet T-34/76 (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/t34.htm) tanks at the distances as low as 50 meters.In August of 1944, Otto Carius was transferred to Paderbornto the newly created schwere Panzerjager Abteilung 512 and received the command of the 2nd company. sPzJagAbt 512 was equipped with powerful Jagdtigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz12.htm), armed with 128mm Pak 44 L/55 gun. Carius commanded the 2nd company, which was training at Senne Camp near Paderborn and at Dollersheim near Vienna. On March 8th of 1945, without finishing its training, 2nd company was directed to the frontline near Siegburg. It then took part in the defence of the River Rhine and eventually surrendered to the US Army on April 15th of 1945. Interesting fact is that Otto Carius, only wore his Knight's Cross at the front, as it was a "pass" to get requests filled better. After the war, Otto Carius became an owner of a pharmacy called Tiger Apotheke.



Born: 27 May 1922 in Zweibrucken
Awards:
- Iron Cross 2nd and 1st Class (EK II and EK I),
- Knights Cross (Ritterkreuz),
- Oakleaves to the Knights Cross (Eichenlaub),
- Wound Badge in Gold,
- Panzer Battle Badge in Silver (100),
Total victories (kills):
- 150-200 tanks,
* Majority of this score was tailed on the Eastern Front.
Source: www.achtungpanzer.com

GermanSoldier
03-27-2007, 07:16 PM
Tank number 131 of sPzabt 101, Normandy, July 1944. A field applied camouflage of dark green and red brown over a base dark yellow was a common camouflage pattern. In winter, some tanks carried a flat white wash brushed over the the base color.
http://i9.tinypic.com/40p4tts.jpg
This tiger tank was probably from the 1st SS Panzer Corps or the 12th SS Panzer Corps. I have learned about this because I am reading a book on both of these groups. The title is Steel Inferno:1st SS Panzer Corps in Normandy. Very good book.

In this photo, German engineers change a Tiger's tracks from transport tracks to combat tracks. This was a tedious task frowned by the engineers. The tracks alone weighed 2.5 tons. You can see the wheels dismantled and lying on the ground.
http://i3.tinypic.com/2v0gwtl.jpg

Leningrad, 1943. A member of PzAbt 502 advances on a road through a Russian village.
http://i13.tinypic.com/42i6mtc.jpg

World War 2 leading tanker ace, SS-Hauptsturmf'u'hrer (captain) Michael Wittman briefing his tank commanders, Normandy 1944. Decorated with the prestigious knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords, Michael Wittman destroyed 138 allied tanks and 132 anti-tank guns during his career.
http://i14.tinypic.com/2dlkjeo.jpg

Panzerknacker
03-27-2007, 07:25 PM
Very nice gallery GermanSoldier.

I saw the first picture in some Osprey book in B&W , never in the actual color.

GermanSoldier
03-27-2007, 07:50 PM
Very nice gallery GermanSoldier.

I saw the first picture in some Osprey book in B&W , never in the actual color.

thank for the compliment on the gallery. I love to find pictures and post them on the forum. I also have seen the black and white picture. I was about to save it, but i looked a little more and found a colored one. pretty interesting photo if you ask me.

Librarian
03-28-2007, 04:36 AM
Well done, my dear Mr. German soldier. Original and inspiring caption, accurate supplementary information about presented snapshots, and precise matter-oriented elaboration of a thread-theme. Once again, my sincerest congratulations.:)

GermanSoldier
03-28-2007, 01:51 PM
Well done, my dear Mr. German soldier. Original and inspiring caption, accurate supplementary information about presented snapshots, and precise matter-oriented elaboration of a thread-theme. Once again, my sincerest congratulations.:)

thank you, just trying to give the forum some good pictures and information.

ww2admin
03-28-2007, 04:13 PM
That photo appears to be hand colored.

Man, the Tiger is sure a sweet tank, isn't it?

GermanSoldier
03-28-2007, 04:22 PM
That photo appears to be hand colored.

Man, the Tiger is sure a sweet tank, isn't it?

No doubt about it. I still think who ever hand colored the picture did a pretty good job if I must say so myself.

ww2admin
03-28-2007, 08:40 PM
The Germans generally avoid tank-versus-tank actions, and adhere to the principle that the task of the tanks is to break through and help to destroy infantry, not necessarily to seek out and destroy enemy tanks. Destruction of tanks is a mission assigned mainly to antitank units.

Also, the introduction of the heavy tank (Pz.Kpfw. Tiger) has led to a modification of German tactics, and reports from the Eastern Front indicate that Tiger tanks were sometimes used there in an independent role. The Tiger tank has been employed mainly to provide support for light and medium tanks. In one action in the Tunisian Campaign, however, lighter tanks formed the spear head of an attack, but when Allied tanks came within range, the lighter German tanks deployed to the flanks and the Tiger tanks engaged.

cooke24
03-28-2007, 11:21 PM
The Germans generally avoid tank-versus-tank actions, and adhere to the principle that the task of the tanks is to break through and help to destroy infantry, not necessarily to seek out and destroy enemy tanks. Destruction of tanks is a mission assigned mainly to antitank units.

Also, the introduction of the heavy tank (Pz.Kpfw. Tiger) has led to a modification of German tactics, and reports from the Eastern Front indicate that Tiger tanks were sometimes used there in an independent role. The Tiger tank has been employed mainly to provide support for light and medium tanks. In one action in the Tunisian Campaign, however, lighter tanks formed the spear head of an attack, but when Allied tanks came within range, the lighter German tanks deployed to the flanks and the Tiger tanks engaged.

Im pretty positive that those were the american doctrines, not german. Can someone confirm that or is it the other way around?

Gen. Sandworm
03-29-2007, 05:52 AM
Im pretty positive that those were the american doctrines, not german. Can someone confirm that or is it the other way around?

No ww2admin is correct. At least for the majority of the war. Towards the end they became more defensive in nature. But even at the Ardennes this was the case.

Dani
03-29-2007, 06:15 AM
No ww2admin is correct. At least for the majority of the war. Towards the end they became more defensive in nature. But even at the Ardennes this was the case.


Thirded on ww2admin.
More (not only tanks) on http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/FreeFiles/Downloads_Misc/german%20tactics.txt and http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/recentdev/index.html

ww2admin
03-29-2007, 08:13 AM
Im pretty positive that those were the american doctrines, not german. Can someone confirm that or is it the other way around?

Hi Cooke. The above info was from "Company Officer's Handbook of the German Army" published in March 31, 1944. Is that what you were asking? It's a pretty good read, but I'm not sure how accurate it is as the intel info was taken during WWII, not after. However, the document is based on captured German documents and seized strategy papers.

I'm currently getting this handbook online for you guys to read.

Panzerknacker
03-29-2007, 10:43 AM
Is true, in the Battle ok Kursk the Tiger were the spearhead of the german advanced engaging antitank guns, artillery and heavy machinegun entrenched of bunkers, due his heavy frontal armor they were very suceesful.
They even managed to overrun an airfield and shooting up some aircraft.:shock:

The the concept behing Tiger was the "durbruchwagen" breaktrhough vehicle created in march 1941 when still the Panzer Division had not faced the heavy russian armored formations.

http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/panzers/2_tiger/tiger_gal_02/tiger_03.jpg

Off course sometimes when faced with large russian or american tanks formations the Tiger became the main AT weapon.

ww2admin
03-29-2007, 11:14 AM
Off course sometimes when faced with large russian or american tanks formations the Tiger became the main AT weapon.

Aint it so:cool:

Panzerknacker
03-29-2007, 05:45 PM
Sorry but I dont follow you. You mean that the Tiger wasnt the main AT weapon in the attack?

ww2admin
03-29-2007, 06:36 PM
I was in agreement with you.

Btw, one thing that often fails to be mentioned was how loud the Tiger Tank was. The engines and tracks could be heard miles away. This is bad if the German army was counting on a sneak attack.

Panzerknacker
03-29-2007, 06:54 PM
Not as loud as a KV however.:rolleyes:

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Tiger1-2002-Picz/GD-Tiger1.jpg


I supose that the King Tiger was louder than the Tiger 1 because his more overloaded engine.

cooke24
03-29-2007, 08:41 PM
hmm ok well at least u guys got back up for your info, all i have is memory from something i read about how those were the american doctrines.Or maybe the american's where the same. But seems you know more about it so.

Ace Tankkiller
03-30-2007, 07:03 AM
One thing I would think about being able to hear it miles away is you cannot really tell within those miles accurately wear it would be coming from?I would it would also instill great fear into the soldiers hearing it so far away and not being able to do anything.

Gen. Sandworm
03-30-2007, 07:07 AM
....... would it would also instill great fear into the soldiers hearing it so far away and not being able to do anything.

Not if you dont have any tanks in the area............call in a airstrike. :D

Panzerknacker
03-30-2007, 09:28 AM
Tiger 1 Power:


Checking the book "Tiger 1 heavy tank 1942-1945" of Jentz-Doyle I found interesting data about the battle of KursK.

There was 148 Tigers I available on that time in the Eastern Front, 85 % ready to combat.

Facing it there was about 3400 russian tank ( including 270 Kv-1 and 35 Churchill Mk-III)

The sPz.Abt 503 had an excelent performance in the attack to the russian bulge. Betwenn 1 of July 1943 and 2 September 1943 the Heavy Tank Batallion claimed as destroyed 501 enemy tanks (mostly T-34 but also small number of Valentine, Churchill, and KV-1s) 388 pak and Flak guns, 79 artillery pieces and 7 aircraft... http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif

In turn this group suffer 18 Tiger knocked out wich only 7 became total losses.

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9278/wreckedt3476tigerindistaf9.jpg

ww2admin
03-30-2007, 04:40 PM
Off course sometimes when faced with large russian or american tanks formations the Tiger became the main AT weapon.

The introduction of the heavy tank (Pz.Kpfw. Tiger) has led to a modification of German tactics, and reports from the Eastern Front indicate that Tiger tanks were sometimes used there in an independent role. The Tiger tank has been employed mainly to provide support for light and medium tanks. In one action in the Tunisian Campaign, however, lighter tanks formed the spear head of an attack, but when Allied tanks came within range, the lighter German tanks deployed to the flanks and the Tiger tanks engaged.
--From US OFFICER'S HANDBOOK OF THE GERMAN ARMY, published 1944.

Panzerknacker
04-26-2007, 05:33 PM
In one action in the Tunisian Campaign, however, lighter tanks formed the spear head of an attack, but when Allied tanks came within range, the lighter German tanks deployed to the flanks and the Tiger tanks engaged.
--From US OFFICER'S HANDBOOK OF THE GERMAN ARMY, published 1944.+

Amen. A static tiger could be uased as some kind of "anti-tank pill-box" if you want.

Tiger in the woods.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/903/314012ep.jpg

shoogs
05-03-2007, 10:07 AM
Tiger 1 Henschel V1 with deep fording apparatus.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/deeptig.jpg





More likely from his wagnerian dreams.[/QUOTE]

i take it this tiger with snorkel is a model so could you be so kind and show me where the snorkel is mounted.:D

in another quote a person said that the tiger was in tunis is this true as i didnt realise this.:confused:

Panzerknacker
05-05-2007, 04:04 PM
i take it this tiger with snorkel is a model so could you be so kind and show me where the snorkel is mounted


I ll try to found you a view from above but is a hard one.

Ans yes 24 Tiger 1 were deployed to Tunisia with the 501 heavy armored Battalion, and caused a lot of damage there.


http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/7500/tiger1q2jb9.jpg

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
05-05-2007, 05:50 PM
I bet that was a surprise for the English! :D

shoogs
05-06-2007, 12:30 PM
any chance of getting the two turrets together cos i dont think iv seen them both OR im just ignorant of the difference, i knew that there were two different ones but i dont know the differance.

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
05-06-2007, 01:12 PM
Tiger I

http://blitzkrieg.celeonet.fr/rushforberlin/images/units_german/panzer_VI_T1.gif


Tiger II

http://blitzkrieg.celeonet.fr/rushforberlin/images/units_german/panzer_VI_T2.gif

Panzerknacker
05-06-2007, 02:28 PM
King Tiger (porsche designed turret)

http://gunpoint-3d.com/images/view/ti2p.f.jpg


http://gunpoint-3d.com/images/view/ti2p.l.jpg



King tiger (Henschel designed turret)

http://gunpoint-3d.com/images/view/tiger2.f.jpg



http://gunpoint-3d.com/images/view/tiger2.l.jpg


The Porsche turret had an frontal armor 110mm thick, the Henschel one 180 mm thick.

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
05-06-2007, 03:01 PM
What's your favorite variation of the Tiger II turret?

Panzerknacker
05-06-2007, 04:53 PM
Favorite ? The Henschel turm obviously.

http://i9.tinypic.com/2i92web.jpg


http://www.portierramaryaire.com/imagenes/tiger2_torre.jpg

shoogs
05-08-2007, 12:40 PM
thanks after a good hard look i would go for the porsche designed turret

shoogs
05-08-2007, 12:54 PM
tis a little unfair the question is wich turret tiger 1 tiger with two different or the tiger 2 you lot show me two different tiger 2's and i thought you was going to show me the two tiger one's then the tiger two.... or have i got the wrong end of the stick??

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
05-08-2007, 02:55 PM
tis a little unfair the question is wich turret tiger 1 tiger with two different or the tiger 2 you lot show me two different tiger 2's and i thought you was going to show me the two tiger one's then the tiger two.... or have i got the wrong end of the stick??

You mind revising that with puncuation? :roll:

Gabriel11.1
05-08-2007, 03:00 PM
i love the tiger II

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
05-08-2007, 03:21 PM
i love the tiger II

Don't we all? :D

Weren't raft bridges designed to get the Tiger II across a body of water? It couldn't even cross a bridge :shock:

Panzerknacker
05-08-2007, 06:49 PM
It couldn't even cross a bridge


Why not? there was a decree forbidding it ?

http://www.portierramaryaire.com/imagenes/tiger2_1.jpg

If you mean because this weight , you should said it cannot go trough weak bridges, but it have some fording capabilities.

tankgeezer
05-08-2007, 07:22 PM
Althought the Tiger II is the more advanced, and probably more capable, I stll prefer the Tiger 1. Its just more esoteric. - Raspenau -

Panzerknacker
05-08-2007, 07:31 PM
Althought the Tiger II is the more advanced, and probably more capable, I stll prefer the Tiger 1. Its just more esoteric. - Raspenau


I did prefer that variant too, it by far more reliable combat machine.

shoogs
05-10-2007, 03:48 PM
You mind revising that with puncuation? :roll:

yea i got it now its about the tanks not the turrets my bad:confused:
well i still like the tiger with the porsche designed turret. i think that the tiger 1 just has such a style all of its own.:mrgreen:

BDL
05-10-2007, 05:27 PM
3 stages in the change of a wide track in Tiger 1 H.

The data in january 1944, somewhere in the Eastern Fornt.

You can't beat a good winter trackbash :D

Panzerknacker
05-11-2007, 09:06 AM
Agreed.

Tiger 1 squematics:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4989/t1ps8.jpg




http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/4663/t2gu6.jpg

cooke24
05-13-2007, 12:42 PM
Ive never seen a photo like that of the tiger. now did the tiger run directly from the engine or did the engine power an electric motor and then the eletric motor powered the wheels?

Panzerknacker
05-13-2007, 12:48 PM
No, look at the fist pages of this topic, the one with electric drive is the Porsche Tiger 1 (VK 45.02 P) , only 10 of these were manufactured, the pictures I ve shown in the last topic belongs to the Henschel Tiger 1 wich is the "normal "Tiger 1. This used a V-12 26 liters Maybach engine coupled with standar mechanichal transmition, not electric.

cooke24
05-13-2007, 02:29 PM
ahh ok, i wasnt thinking properly i know that porshe's used the electric motors i made that post in the morning. i still like that picture thou. oh another question when porshe and henshel were designing at first did they have different turrets or just different hull designs. if i remember correctly the tiger 1 used porshe's design of the turret and henshel's hull

Panzerknacker
05-15-2007, 06:13 PM
Tiger wrath, destroyed armor in Normandy by the heavy 101 SS panzer batallion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBLrtDpRUDc

Winters
05-16-2007, 09:25 AM
mmmmmmmmmm big tiger tanks , altho not built in mass numbers the germans needed to over come the allies , it was still a formidable force on the battle field , and i believe ( correct me if i am wrong ) it took 5 allied shermans to knockout 1 tiger .

hope you like my tiger :D

Winters
05-16-2007, 09:26 AM
heres my little toy .....

Splinter54
05-16-2007, 09:38 AM
it took 5 allied shermans to knockout 1 tiger .

Wasn't there a calculation, that it needs 9 T-34 for one Panther?

Winters
05-16-2007, 11:44 AM
Wasn't there a calculation, that it needs 9 T-34 for one Panther?

i think it was something like that it was either 6 or 9 t-34s

Panzerknacker
05-16-2007, 11:59 AM
Probably with a single 76mm Sherman well ambushed you can knock out a Tiger, in other hand is clear that a single Tiger could disrupt a larger armored formation comprised by several tanks as in Wittman case.

http://worldwar2.free.fr/tiger1a.jpg

Winters
05-16-2007, 12:05 PM
good job the allies mass produced the sherman in the numbers that they did.

HG
05-16-2007, 05:56 PM
It took 6 Shermans to knock out one King Tiger. 5 to distract the King Tiger and one to hit it from the back. Most of the time the five that disctracted the King Tiger did not survive.

Panzerknacker
05-16-2007, 06:03 PM
Well, teorically the Sherman Firefly should be able to penetrate the Tiger armor at distances not as suicidal when a 75mm gun Sherman was used, off course teorically.

Panzerknacker
05-17-2007, 09:04 AM
Very interesting picture, the Tiger Porsche in his way to the Front, behind it a modified Panther, both vehicle were used by the 653 Heavy tank battalion.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7047/10ic9.jpg

HG
05-17-2007, 06:44 PM
wonder why they modified the Panther?

Panzerknacker
05-17-2007, 07:06 PM
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4040&page=8

Panzerknacker
06-01-2007, 06:42 PM
Tiger 1 preserved as a monument in a French Town.

http://perso.orange.fr/did.panzer/Tiger_vimoutiers.html

Librarian
06-02-2007, 08:13 PM
While researching some completely different things for another thread, I have discovered this snapshot in a "Berliner Illustrierte Zeitung" (April 27, 1943 – p.3):

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/PzKpfwVITigerNo111-sPzAbt501.jpg

PzKpfw Vi Tiger No. 111 - SPzAbt 501 in Tunisia

I am not an expert in this field, and for that reason I really don’t know is my conclusion correct or not, but it seems to me that this Tiger actually has all those characteristic field-modifications – tailored mud-guards and lowered headlights – which were so typical for Schwere Panzer Abteilung 501 Tigers in Tunisia.

What is your opinion, honorable ladies and gentlemen?

Panzerknacker
06-02-2007, 10:51 PM
Tiger next to a camel., that is great.

There is no much to ad Lib, the tank is clearly one belonging to the 501th heavy armored formation. The Panzer III tools/supply box added in the back turret is also a characteristic of the early Pz VI.

ww2admin
06-03-2007, 09:39 AM
That is a beautiful picture. Wow.

shoogs
06-17-2007, 05:40 AM
been doing some reserch on this tank, i was told that when it was first made that it was known to burst into flames, it tell some of the history of the beast, like how the first four went to russia got bogged down in a marsh then was taken out, they recovered three of these as the armour was not penatrated. the web place iv been to says nothing about this, the web is ''www dot alanhamby dot com forward slash tiger dot html'' .... it tels how Porsche and Henschel had to win the contract for the rights of this beast but not a word about bursting in to flames.
can anyone tell me more of the history did this really happen ? :confused:

this is the place i got the info from http://www.alanhamby.com/tiger.html for some silly reason i didnt think i could put in links or will this put it in anyway..... yesssss it did.

Splinter54
06-17-2007, 07:25 AM
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4389

;)

Panzerknacker
06-17-2007, 12:48 PM
Merged :rolleyes:

shoogs
06-19-2007, 06:58 AM
German industry first began working on heavy tank designs in 1937, even though it was believed at the time that the PzKpfw III and IV would be more than adequate for the coming battles. But when the German Panzers in Russia encountered the Soviet T-34's and KV-1's in 1941 it was all too apparent that a new heavy tank was needed. Ultimately, this resulted in a specification for a 45-ton tank with an 88mm gun, heavy armor, speed and manuverability. The Porsche firm began working on this new tank design but encountered serious complications. The Henschel firm then began working on its own model under the direction of Dr. Erwin Aders, drawing from its previous work on heavy tank designs. The two firms were to have prototypes ready for inspection by Hitler at Rastenburg on his birthday, April 20th, 1942. The Porsche and Henschel tanks were put through trials and, in spite of Dr. Ferdinand Porsche's friendship with Hitler, the Henschel tank won, in large part due to its superior maneuverability.

Dr. Erwin Aders
The "father" of
the Tiger I.







The Porsche prototype Tiger. The familiar shape as designed by Henschel.


Production was ordered to start in August 1942. It began at a rate of 25 tanks per month and peaked in April 1944 at a rate of 104 per month. It took 300,000 man hours to build one Tiger, almost twice as much time as a Panther required.
this is a cut and paste from http://www.alanhamby.com/history.html
looking at these two tanks i do like the Henschel design better.

Panzerknacker
06-19-2007, 06:55 PM
I dont know if you noted Shoogs but in the early pages of this there is several pics of the Porsche Tiger.

http://klub.chip.pl/krzemek/tiger2/tiger2_30d.jpg

shoogs
06-20-2007, 09:44 AM
yea but i was getting confused with the different types, so, i done a little research of my own, im not into the tiger 11 so its the Henschel one for me.

now i have your attention, i was told that when it was first made that it was known to burst into flames, i dont know which type that was, Henschel or Porsche, could you throw some light on this please. :D

Panzerknacker
06-20-2007, 06:42 PM
Both designs had his troubles with engine fires in the begining, however the Henschel work team solved these faster than the Porsche team, that and other disfavourables characteristics made Henschel the winner.


http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Tiger1-2002-Picz/tiger1_protoype_henschel.jpg


Tiger I s.SS.Pz. Abt 101 France July 1944.

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/1919/stiger101normandyxn5.jpg

shoogs
06-21-2007, 05:59 AM
thanks Panzerknacker, where do you research then cos i couldnt find that info.

Ace Tankkiller
06-21-2007, 01:07 PM
thanks Panzerknacker, where do you research then cos i couldnt find that info.
That is his trade secret ;)

Panzerknacker
06-21-2007, 04:12 PM
Yea, supersecret one, I call it "book" :) :o :D

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/637/work1lo8.jpg

shoogs
06-22-2007, 06:38 PM
[QUOTE=Panzerknacker;104129]Yea, supersecret one, I call it "book" :) :o :D

yea ok i thought that this www. thing was gonna have all the answeres :twisted:

Panzerknacker
06-22-2007, 06:42 PM
You want some good sites ?

here you go.

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger2.htm

http://home.tiscalinet.ch/vulpes/imageSG5.JPG

shoogs
06-24-2007, 05:33 AM
thanks for that

Digger
06-27-2007, 07:18 AM
Mention was made of the racket caused by the Tiger, especially on the Eastern Front. Considering the size of formations used on the Russian steppe by both sides silence was next to impossible especially at night.

Regards digger

Panzerknacker
06-29-2007, 05:54 PM
Splinter the only info I found about the La gleize tiger II is this, the picture of that tank stucked after some transmission failure.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5035/lagleizemk4.jpg



Mention was made of the racket caused by the Tiger


What racket was that ?

Digger
06-29-2007, 06:52 PM
This was my response to ww2admin's post #80.

Regards digger

Panzerknacker
07-03-2007, 06:46 PM
A gallery of the early Tiger II with the earl Porsche turm.

The first 90 Tiger ausf B used the turret designed for the Typ 180 (porsche proposal for a 65 tons tank)
This is one of the first series pictured in the test grounds of Kummersdof in april 1944. The radio operator MG is still not in place.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8589/tigeriiwc8.jpg



Fortal view of the tank above, note the 2 apertures for the binocular gunsight Turmzielfenrohr 9/b1 above the drives s head and the aditional spare track over the turret. The tank had a fine patterned zimmerit coating.

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2858/interior4mdv8.jpg


A close up to the TZF 9/B1 this was manufactured by Enst Leitz the same firm wich designed the famous Leica camera, the magnification a fixed in 2,5X. Note the rain cover.


http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1267/dibujocf9.jpg




Tiger II (porsche turret) of the Replacement and test heavy armored battalion 500th, France, March 1944. This was a operational training unit and was mostly used for ironing the teeting troubles of the Tiger II... troubles that in the practice were never completely solved. (profile by Peter Sarson)


http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9273/tigerii001vs9.jpg

Cavalry Gunner
07-22-2007, 07:54 PM
EXPLODING A FEW MYTHS ABOUT WORLD WAR II ARMOR


By Stephen 'Cookie' Sewell
Museum Ordnance Magazine
September 1993

Sitting at a table on behalf of The Ordnance Museum Foundation, Inc., here at Aberdeen Proving Ground on Armed Forces Day 1993, I noticed that a great number of people are believers in myths that surround the German Army of World War II. Many of the people who stopped by had a number of negative comments about the perceived "lack of interest" by the museum in their favorite German tanks and the reasons they were so significant. (It must be noted that the charter of the ordnance Museum is to preserve the history of the development of American ordnance and armored vehicles, and to include significant foreign developments where possible.)

I believe it was Abraham Lincoln who is credited with the quote. "It is easy to defeat a lie with the truth; it is much harder to kill a myth." Of the many comments that were made to us about the mythology surrounding the German armored vehicles, I would like to address certain issues from other points of view in this short article.

Myth #1
The Greatest Tank of the Second
World War was the Tiger I.

Oh? Why? Maybe the best KNOWN overall, and the most notorious, but far from the greatest. This tank was designed as a 30-ton tank (later upgraded to 45 tons) but still came in between 56
and 62 tons; it was underpowered and poorly suited for any kind of mobility battle. Tanks are weapons of the offensive; this tank was not equipped for that type of warfare (remember Blitzkrieg?), nor was it well suited for "cornfield meets" at 500 meters or less.

The Russians were very respectful of the Tiger, but they were also under no illusions as to its combat potential. Their tactics - charge until you are inside the 500-meter range where the T-34's 76mm gun could penetrate the sides or rear of the Tiger - were born out of the desperation of having many more tanks than the enemy but with a less powerful cannon (until 1943) that forced them to adapt. Once the T-34/85 and the IS series of tanks appeared, the Tiger was treated as the dinosaur that it was.

Tanks like the Tiger were designed to combat tanks like the Soviet KV series. Were it not for the KV, it is doubtful the Tiger, as we know it, would have ever developed.

Myth #2
The Panther was the Best All Around
Tank of the Second World War.

Strike Two. The Panther only came about because the German leadership suffered a bout of "NIH" syndrome (Not Invented Here) and ignored the pleas of commanders like Guderian to simply reverse-engineer and adapt the T-34 for German production. As a result, it had a higher silhouette than any Soviet tank, a gasoline engine, and a very weak running gear system that plagued the tank during its combat career.

To give the Panther its due, it carried the hardest hitting 75mm gun of the Second World War; this weapon contributed heavily to French thinking after the war and was the basic weapon chosen to be developed into the 75mm autoloader cannon in the EBR 75 and AMX 13. Its armor was thicker than the T-34 and the Sherman, but it was not well designed; D and A models had a marvelous shot-trap beneath the mantlet that was used to ricochet AP shells down into the thin roof where they would kill the driver and bow gunner.

Reliability was poor - the vehicle was not noted for its ability to conduct long road marches, and the Soviets enjoyed the fact that they could not get captured models to make a simple 200-kilometer road march without breakdown. This was partially due to the poor suspension design (interleaved road wheels) and partially to the conditions under which the tank was used. This tank was also over its targeted weight limit and to the Soviets was a joke - a medium tank that weighed only one ton less than their heavy tanks and did not have the mobility, reliability, or overall useful firepower of the IS-2.

Tanks excel based on balance: the Panther had superior firepower, good armor protection, and poor mobility. That's not balance.

Myth #3
The Tiger II was the Most Influential
Tank of the Second World War.

On what and by who? The Tiger II was a desperate design of overkill that combined the design of the Panther with the concept of the Tiger and wound up with a 68-ton tank that had the worst deployability of any tank of the war (one has to keep things like bridges and roads in mind when designing tanks!!).

If the Tiger II was so influential, then what was its legacy? Surely no tanks were designed to copy its features. It used the classic German balanced layout of transmission front-engine rear which all other countries ditched for either cross drive or "guitar" transverse engine and transmission layouts. It used massive weight of armor for protection which only added to its troubles; being "Sherman-proof" from the front does you no good if you can't catch the little devils.

The Tiger II was also a victim of the late war German economy. It had no real reliability due to the fact that its rubber-hubbed wheels tended to flex under load and, placing uneven strain on the tracks, tended to snap links at the hinges. Like the Tiger I before it, this is a desperation defensive weapon that did not give them advantages.

Finally, even the Soviets had no fear of this tank. The first one they encountered in combat during 1944 was immediately knocked out by a T-34/85; the Soviets made capital over the fact that one of Porsche's sons was the commander of the vehicle and was killed instantly by the shell. (They felt at the time he was most responsible for the Tiger series; it was only after the war when the captured the Nibelungenwerke that they found out Edward Anders of Henschel had more to do with heavy tanks design than Ferdinand Porsche.)

A far more influential tank of the war was the Soviet IS-3; this inspired much more Cold War mythos of its own and was directly responsible for a number of US and foreign designs, as well as the US Ml03 and British Conqueror programs to defeat it on postulated European battlefied

mkenny
07-22-2007, 09:18 PM
Apart from the fact the TII had steel road wheels with internal rubber tyres (copied from Russian models)Cookie Sewell is famous as a denigrater of all things German. Some of his reviews of German plastic kits are hilarious as he does not even have the most basic grasp of the proper names or types of German armour.

http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/german/dml6220reviewcs_1.html

Panzerknacker
07-23-2007, 08:13 AM
The killing ratio I ve posted is a example wich liked or not happen several times in the wartime period, specially in the Eastern Front.



Tanks like the Tiger were designed to combat tanks like the Soviet KV series. Were it not for the KV, it is doubtful the Tiger, as we know it, would have ever developed.



Actually the Tiger is designed to engage AT guns and artillery being the sperarhead of the panzers advance, for unlikely it might sound wasnt designed to counter the new russians tanks since it comes from a specification of may 1941, time in wich the germans wasnt aware of the T-34 or the KV, the appereabce of those rushed the production of the heavy panzer however.

mkenny
07-23-2007, 10:25 AM
The killing ratio I ve posted is a example wich liked or not happen several times in the wartime period, specially in the Eastern Front.


Then if SOME Tigers got high scores then MOST Tigers did not get any.
The Eastern Front 'kill ratios' are not official confirmed kills but simple crew claims.
Remember that all claims were halved when they were collated and thus EVERY SINGLE Tiger Unit claim is out by at least 50% in 1944-45.
In the East we have no firm figures for Soviet losses so we get the 10:1 ratios.
In the West we can check the claims against known losses - thus we get a less than 2:1 exchange ratios.
There is some new info coming out on Russian losses.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=124380&highlight=

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=104100&highlight=

http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25189&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Panzerknacker
07-23-2007, 08:39 PM
I dont dispute that figures, but...Panther, I am talking about the Panther, this is the Panther topic man :rolleyes:

The tiger have his devoted topic, also in this section.

mkenny
07-24-2007, 03:37 AM
I dont dispute that figures, but...Panther, I am talking about the Panther, this is the Panther topic man :rolleyes:

The tiger have his devoted topic, also in this section.

Panther,Tiger II or PzIV. It does not matter what make of tank. There is a known total of Allied tank losses divided up between them. The overall ratio was at best 2:1. If you have some types getting 5:1 upwards then it follows that there will be a great number of tanks that did not get any kills at all.
The stories about 5:1 Sherman losses have no basis in reality. It did not happen.

Panzerknacker
07-24-2007, 07:08 PM
Actually does matter, the combat efficience of the Pz IV , Tiger II and the Panther arent the same.

For example in Afrika the Tiger 1 ( off-topic here ;)) achieved a kill ratio of 25-1, unmatched by any other AFV, allied or german.

If you in the going to include in the Western front after june 1944 the losses of Panthers knocked out by artillery and ( more important) by Aircrafts, obiously the figure would never be 5-1, but...

It is a fair comparative?

Dont think so, in Falaise more than 100 Panthers were destroyed by the RAF, those panzers cant shot a single round to the allied armor.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9619/panthermontormelxo1.jpg

mkenny
07-25-2007, 03:46 AM
I see that real figures for destroyed Allied tanks seem not to dent this uber-panzer myth.
There is not any evidence whatsoever that supports a 25:1 kill rate. It is simply uncritical acceptance of German claims. You want to exclude all German tanks knocked out by artillery but I bet you don't want to exclude the Allied tanks hit by German artillery. Allied tanks suffered greatly from German minefields but I bet you don't want to exclude them from the Allied total either.
Sorry but there is simply no basis for any claim of 5:1 kill ratios against Shermans or any other Allied tank. Less than 2:1 is the best you can get.

Cavalry Gunner
07-25-2007, 07:05 AM
Some get off on the whole German Army of WW ll was the baddest army in the world thing. When in fact there early victories were against antiquated and unprepaired countries and Armys.
Once everyone cought their breath, the world gave them an education.
Of course we knocked hell out of them with airpower,Artillery and armor just like they did those countries they attacked with virtually no means of defending themselves.If others are right then we whipped hell out of them despite the superior equipment some say they had. In reallity they lost because their equipment was ill fitted to the task it was designed for and their stratigy was the worst in modern history.
The western allies had massive amounts of armor at the end of the war and so did the soviets - The Germans didn't because we turned their armor into coffins for millions of German troops as they became the EX-Baddest army in the world.


Cavalry Gunner
Wally

Panzerknacker
07-25-2007, 12:38 PM
I see that real figures for destroyed Allied tanks seem not to dent this uber-panzer myth.
There is not any evidence whatsoever that supports a 25:1 kill rate. It is simply uncritical acceptance of German claims. You want to exclude all German tanks knocked out by artillery but I bet you don't want to exclude the Allied tanks hit by German artillery. Allied tanks suffered greatly from German minefields but I bet you don't want to exclude them from the Allied total either.
Sorry but there is simply no basis for any claim of 5:1 kill ratios against Shermans or any other Allied tank. Less than 2:1 is the best you can get

My dear Kenny , you can elaborate the figures in the way you like, but to be completely objetive you need to exclude those panzers and allied armor with were destroyed by other that tanks, I know is difficult and probably the info is not 100% reliable but you ll be closer to the truth, and the truth is more than 2:1.

The 25:1 figure I gave to you for the Tiger battling is africa is completely true, if you dont believe me do some personal research and you ll see.

Off course in the Early year of the war 1939-1941 the Panzer havent the technical advantage and suffered heavily on the allied tanks specially in the Eastern Front, there is examples of KVs shooting 10 or 20 Panzer before being destroyed by desperate means. You can read more in the russian military section.


Some get off on the whole German Army of WW ll was the baddest army in the world thing. When in fact there early victories were against antiquated and unprepaired countries and Armys.
Once everyone cought their breath, the world gave them an education.
Of course we knocked hell out of them with airpower,Artillery and armor just like they did those countries they attacked with virtually no means of defending themselves

Really ? France and UK had 3400 tanks against 2335 german panzer in May 1940. No to mention the most of the French armor was superior, the german army had 155,678 casualties invading France, no walk in the park. The superior Armor was defeted by better german tactics and a fantastic liason with the Luftwaffe.

And that is also a reason of the Big german defeats of 1944, the Luftwaffe was very weak compared with the early years.

mkenny
07-25-2007, 03:18 PM
The 25:1 figure I gave to you for the Tiger battling is africa is completely true, if you dont believe me do some personal research and you ll see.


I have, extensively. It isn't true.
Perhaps you can give me a referenced (i.e. not simple German claims) example where these high scores were obtained?

Panzerknacker
07-25-2007, 06:20 PM
Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics; Thomas L Jentz

mkenny
07-26-2007, 04:12 PM
Villers was an attack by sSSPzAbt.101. Wittmann was not on his own so the 'kills' have to be divided up between all the German tanks. The trouble begins when every single British casualty is attributed to Wittmann- no other German tank hit anything?

Here is a Tiger tank just minutes after it bumped into some Shermans-note the new crew.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e312/schwere/rauraytiger.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e312/schwere/ss1011140001.jpg

Drake
07-26-2007, 05:22 PM
These were not all casualities on the Allied side in Villers Bocage that day. I don't know if or to what extent the combat report is true, neither do you, but to the best of my knowledge it actually was wittmann and his crew, who made those kills as they indeed entered the town alone. You still seem to be hung up on the X:Y thing, however.
And what do you want to prove with the pictures?
It actually looks like the tank was abandoned, there are some dents in the hull and frontal armor, but I can't see a penetration.

Panzerknacker
07-26-2007, 06:31 PM
I think I already posted this but here is a lot of info about the Wittman exploits.

http://www.panzerace.net/english/pz_vil.asp



And so was everything else.

Although production rose, the whole system was falling apart

Nick , I agree with almost your entire post, you might ad to the picture the problem of the fuel, for example the Tiger supporting the advance of the infamous "kampfgruppe Peiper" have no fuel trucks following it, they must capture his own supply on route...ridiculous.

Panzerknacker
07-29-2007, 05:16 PM
Interesting video in wich one of the survivors of Villers Bocage talk about his encounter with Michael Witmanns Tiger.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=fnUAYDKMePg

RifleMan20
07-30-2007, 12:06 AM
I have made mistakes before and this one was preety stupid i had no idea a upgraded panzer 4 with a 88 adn heavy armor was a tiger......never knew that.....huh

Chevan
07-30-2007, 04:13 AM
Actually does matter, the combat efficience of the Pz IV , Tiger II and the Panther arent the same.

For example in Afrika the Tiger 1 ( off-topic here ;)) achieved a kill ratio of 25-1, unmatched by any other AFV, allied or german.

Wow PZ i know the germans had a tank kill rate superiority but 25:1 this is simple German propoganda;)
Well i/m agree the famouse Witteman's crew could hit about 25 allies tanks and armored veshicles befor going to devil ( be killed) but i doubt this was the average resault in the Western front.
If to believe the Nazy propoganda they destructed all the soviet tanks three-five times in the Eastern front. But as we know the soviets still had a few T-34 after battle of Berlin :)
The awerage kill ratio was probably 2-3:1 against the hard Tiger 1/2 (55/67 tonns) and mediun Sharman(30 tonns) and probably 2:1 againsth the T-34-85 (34 tonns).
The 47-tonns Panther had a simular rasault i think but not rather better.
So your "sucking for the superior of german wearponry" is no more permissible here;)
Just kidding.....

Cheers.

Panzerknacker
07-30-2007, 11:14 AM
The Tiger II was actully less effective in combat than Tiger I because his poor engine reliability, just some figures of the Tiger I in the Eastern Front.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/3894/tigerlc2.jpg


I have made mistakes before and this one was preety stupid i had no idea a upgraded panzer 4 with a 88 adn heavy armor was a tiger......never knew that.....huh

:D:D, an provocative teory if you asking me. :rolleyes:

Nickdfresh
07-30-2007, 03:33 PM
The Tiger II was actully less effective in combat than Tiger I because his poor engine reliability, just some figures of the Tiger I in the Eastern Front.


Then wasn't a Tiger I less effective than most versions of the Panther in combat?:)

Panzerknacker
07-30-2007, 06:19 PM
No, The Tiger I was by far more effective than the Panther particulary more efective than the ausf D Pz V mostly because his more reliable mechanical components. Also had more survibality in the battlefield due his heavier side armor ( the vulnerable spot of the Panther)

Also this: Although the Kwk 42 can shoot HE ammo that is pretty weak compared with 8,8cm shells, this made the Tiger a better infantry support vehicle.

Nickdfresh
08-01-2007, 02:45 PM
No, The Tiger I was by far more effective than the Panther particulary more efective than the ausf D Pz V mostly because his more reliable mechanical components. Also had more survibality in the battlefield due his heavier side armor ( the vulnerable spot of the Panther)

The Tiger suffered from many teething-pains as it's transmission and power plant was far too small for the vehicles overall weight (a common problem in WWII actually, one of the reasons why the Sherman took so long to upgrade).

The Panther was also easier to manufacture and I believe simpler to operate.


Also this: Although the Kwk 42 can shoot HE ammo that is pretty weak compared with 8,8cm shells, this made the Tiger a better infantry support vehicle.

But the Panther's 75mm long-barrel gun was actually a better armor-piercing weapon. And I doubt supporting infantry assaults was high on the priority list of German combat ops by the middle of 1944...

Nickdfresh
08-01-2007, 07:40 PM
I think the article you posted exactly mirrors what I said. Of course the Tiger's "teething pains" were work out, as were those of the Panther Ausf A/D...


Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Ausf D(D1), along with Panzerjäger Tiger(P) Ferdinand (Sd.Kfz.184) and other new armored fighting vehicles, made their debut with Panzer Abteilungen 51 and 52 (96 tanks each) along with Panzer Regiment Stab 39 (8 tanks each) as part of Heeresgruppe Sued (Army Group South) in July 1943 during Operation Citadel in the Kursk salient. Because of technical problems (especially with the gearbox, transmission and suspension, and engine fires) that were not fully solved until later, many Panthers broke down before and during the battle.

In August 1943, after repairs and modifications to the gearbox and other systems, a new variant of Panther was produced-the Ausf A, which soon became a formidable weapon. Panther Ausf A was the most numerous variant during the Normandy campaign, and some 400 Panthers of all types were lost there. Panther Ausf A featured a redesigned turret, the new cast commander's cupola, a mounting bracket for an AA MG34 on the cupola, a ball-mounted MG34 in the frontal plate and standard armor skirts. Over time, five different types of exhaust arrangement were used. In general, from August 1943 to May 1944, some 2,200 were produced by MAN, Daimler-Benz, Demag and Henschel.

As with any weapon in constant use, various modifications and design changes were made to the Panther to improve its combat capabilities. In March 1944, the first Ausf G was produced. Panther Ausf G became the most numerous model, and had many new features. These included a new design for the top hull hatches, removal of the driver's visor in the glacis (front) plate and upper hull sides closer to the vertical. Later variants had a rotating periscope for the driver, a new exhaust arrangement, a new mantlet design to eliminate the shot trap and a new engine deck layout with a raised fan cover. Perhaps the most distinctive feature of the Ausf G was the tapered one-piece upper hull side plate on the sponson over the suspension. From March 1944 to April 1945, some 2,950 were produced by MAN, Daimler-Benz and MNH.
Older models returned for repairs were often fitted with newer parts creating hybrids.
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz4.htm#panther


I think it's impossible to draw any conclusions as to which was the more combat effective panzer. But I'm pretty sure the Panther was cheaper, more versatile, and easier to mass produce...

And the King Tiger was simply a silly, pointless idea...

Drake
08-01-2007, 07:49 PM
I think it's impossible to draw any conclusions as to which was the more combat effective panzer. But I'm pretty sure the Panther was cheaper, more versatile, and easier to mass produce...



... which would mean he was definatly more efficient, as teh businessman would say ;)

Or as my prof in political economics course i took in college has explained the difference between effectiveness and efficiency:

You can use a small calibre rifle or an artillery to kill the bird that always shits on your roof. Both means are equally effective, the bird is dead. But one way will be a hell of a lot more expensive and your wife might wonder, where the house has gone.

Panzerknacker
08-03-2007, 09:04 AM
I think it's impossible to draw any conclusions as to which was the more combat effective panzer. But I'm pretty sure the Panther was cheaper, more versatile, and easier to mass produce...



There is a fine example of how the Tiger one was completely superior than the Panther at list in the year 1943.

The 6 july 1943 there was 140 Tigers battle ready in Kursk, in turn there was more than 210 Panthers in the same conditions, 3 days later there was still 110 Tigers engaging the russian armor and artillery defenses, the rest were destroyed or were on repair....just 30 panthers remain in usable conditions, mostly lost due mechanical failure.


Tiger I, s.H.Pz Abt 503. USSR 1943.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6918/ss503ur1.jpg

Nickdfresh
08-03-2007, 06:14 PM
There is a fine example of how the Tiger one was completely superior than the Panther at list in the year 1943.

The 6 july 1943 there was 140 Tigers battle ready in Kursk, in turn there was more than 210 Panthers in the same conditions, 3 days later there was still 110 Tigers engaging the russian armor and artillery defenses, the rest were destroyed or were on repair....just 30 panthers remain in usable conditions, mostly lost due mechanical failure.


Tiger I, s.H.Pz Abt 503. USSR 1943.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6918/ss503ur1.jpg

Oh c'mon Panzerk, that was when the Panther was still just a newborn. The Tiger had already seen a far amount of combat in North Africa and previously in the East.

Overall, the finalized versions of the Panther were indeed more reliable than the Tiger...

BTW, how many T-34s broke down?;)

Travis
08-03-2007, 09:53 PM
If the germans had more time to further study and to up date the tiger 2 it would be a hell of a tank. dont get me wrong it was the mother of all tanks but it was using the tiger 1 transmission and engine. if it had a bigger power plant and trany it would be a bitch to battle against. The motor of the tiger 1 was only able to hand so much weight and wasn't suited towards the tiger 2's 34 tons, but if the germans develpoed a stronger motor and transmission there would be no stopping it

redcoat
08-23-2007, 04:20 PM
Well i/m agree the famouse Witteman's crew could hit about 25 allies tanks and armored veshicles befor going to devil ( be killed) but i doubt this was the average resault in the Western front..
In Wittmann's final battle he was part of a 7 Tiger I unit advancing towards British and Canadian positions which drove into an ambush.
5 Tiger I's were destroyed without loss to the Allied units, 3 of the Tigers being destroyed by a single Sherman Firefly.

Panzerknacker
08-23-2007, 07:13 PM
Witmann being killed by an ambushed Firefly is by far more credible than the version indicating thart it was hit by a Typhoons rocket.

Tiger, 13 Kompanie LSSAH

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1056/dasreichvh9.jpg

redcoat
08-25-2007, 05:12 AM
Witmann being killed by an ambushed Firefly is by far more credible than the version indicating thart it was hit by a Typhoons rocket.


Wittmann's unit the Sehwere Panzer-Abteilung 101 only lost 4 Tigers in the battle of Normandy due to air attack.
These were all lost on the 15th June, when caught in an heavy bomber attack near Villers Bocage.

Nickdfresh
08-25-2007, 10:21 AM
In Wittmann's final battle he was part of a 7 Tiger I unit advancing towards British and Canadian positions which drove into an ambush.
5 Tiger I's were destroyed without loss to the Allied units, 3 of the Tigers being destroyed by a single Sherman Firefly.

I think this goes to show that although the Sherman was inferior to the panzers, a good deal of the loss rate and disparity had too do with the Shermans taking the offensive against dug-in or concealed Tigers waiting in ambush. I believe this was one of the findings of a US Army post-War report on the subject of armor...

awack
08-25-2007, 11:25 PM
I think this goes to show that although the Sherman was inferior to the panzers, a good deal of the loss rate and disparity had too do with the Shermans taking the offensive against dug-in or concealed Tigers waiting in ambush. I believe this was one of the findings of a US Army post-War report on the subject of armor...


I agree but the panther was used in hit and run tactics were they would advance, engage then disengage, hoping the enemy tanks would follow were tigers and/or other panzers would be waiting to ambush and it was favored in this role over the panzer IV or tiger.

I want to know if anyone remembers a documentary about d-day that came out years ago, in it there was a british soldier talkinag about how a panther advanced at high speed, swung around toward the column of british shermans and knocked out, it was either 7 or 9 shermans before later in the day the RAF sorted him out in his words, in the same documetary and i think it was the same british soldier saying how a young german soldier (a child) hit a tank at close range with a panzeraust killing the crew inside but wounding himself badly and refusing water.

mkenny
08-26-2007, 09:13 PM
Tiger, 13 Kompanie LSSAH

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1056/dasreichvh9.jpg


'Das Reich' not LSSAH

redcoat
08-27-2007, 03:46 PM
Does anyone have the amount of tank kills claimed by Wittmann's unit the Sehwere Panzer-Abteilung 101 during the Battle Of Normandy?
I know the unit is credited with a total of 500 kills in total, but how many just for Normandy

Nickdfresh
08-28-2007, 02:07 PM
I agree but the panther was used in hit and run tactics were they would advance, engage then disengage, hoping the enemy tanks would follow were tigers and/or other panzers would be waiting to ambush and it was favored in this role over the panzer IV or tiger.
...


Interesting.

I was aware that the Wehrmacht had used similar tactics in the Desert against the 8th Army. But I thought they used tanks in general to exploit the British thirst for tank vs. tank engagements by luring them into a screen of PAK or 88mm guns...

mkenny
08-28-2007, 08:41 PM
If I remember correctly there is a brief reference in Agte that Wittmann made one kill claim other than for Villers Bocage. That seems to be it.
If you take Fey's claims (SS102) of 80+ kills at face value then he alone accounted for a third of the Units total score!
Then there is his medal claim.................

redcoat
08-29-2007, 06:05 AM
About Wittman tally there is more in "Panzer kill-losses ratio revisited".
Thanks but its not Wittmann's tally that I'm really interested in, its the total amount of claims made for the whole unit in Normandy

Panzerknacker
08-31-2007, 07:02 PM
I see, i will looking some info about it.

Tiger hit.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2558/tigerbw1ax7.jpg

Panzerknacker
09-18-2007, 07:20 PM
Tiger and other weapons in a demonstration to Turkish Generals.

http://www.wochenschau-archiv.de/kontrollklfenster.php?&PHPSESSID=&dmguid=08E92C0055BA58DF030103009D21A8C04D09000000&inf=684120&outf=747560&funktion=play250k

Panzerknacker
09-20-2007, 07:36 PM
Albert Speer showing Hitler munition for the new panzers. From left to right pzg 39/42 and spreng 39/42 (Panther), Pzg 39/42 and Spreng 39/42 (Tiger II, Elephant; Jagdpanther), and in the far right you can the see ammo for the kwk 36 Tiger 1, nearly dwarfed by the others two.:shock:


http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6553/ammo2so8.jpg

tankgeezer
09-20-2007, 08:06 PM
Looks awsome, wouldnt want one sniffing me out,,, though I wonder what the bore life of the gun was with these high energy rounds. With that much propellant, I would guess the erosion factor might be considerable.

Panzerknacker
09-20-2007, 08:18 PM
Well, the 75mm round for Panther (75 x 640R) looks like the rifle cartrigde 25-06 :)

tankgeezer
09-20-2007, 10:43 PM
I must agree,,,, I wonder if American Derringer makes one in that caliber?? I'd like to be the contractor making the tubes for those guns,, probably had to change them pretty often. uses lots of E.F.C. rounds per shot. All you need is to lube the barrel with asado juices,,,:)

kallinikosdrama1992
11-13-2007, 06:56 AM
I think it was the most succesful german tank if you dont say nothing about tiger II . it's armor and the killing 88 cannon made it the worst enemy the allied tanks had to fight . Also Tiger I raise one of the best tank commanders that nazi
germany had to put into the fight . That commander was : MICHAEL WITTMANN

kallinikosdrama1992
11-13-2007, 07:00 AM
but i also think that Tiger II couldn't prove what it was worth , because the lack of fuel . but from the info the know , no allied tank could destroy it or damage it

Nickdfresh
11-13-2007, 09:33 AM
I think it was the most succesful german tank if you dont say nothing about tiger II . it's armor and the killing 88 cannon made it the worst enemy the allied tanks had to fight...

Except it couldn't cross a small bridge was easily stopped in bad terrain...:D

Dallas
11-13-2007, 11:57 AM
The Tiger I, the Tiger II was a waste of resources and production manpower.

Nickdfresh
11-13-2007, 07:22 PM
The Tiger I, the Tiger II was a waste of resources and production manpower.

Don't let Panzerknacker witness this heresy! :D

Panzerknacker
11-13-2007, 09:25 PM
Actually I tend to agree with "the Tiger II was a waste of resources" , but I do believe that the Tiger 1 was the best tank in ww2, simply as is.

Manufacturing of Pz VI Tiger 1.

http://i7.tinypic.com/6ue2psl.jpg

kallinikosdrama1992
11-15-2007, 02:43 AM
well i agree with you PK because you are right . simply that and i also agree with you nickdefresh . it was to heavy . thats why i think it couldn't cross small bridges . but i don't think you you can tell anything about it's armor or it's firepower

Panzerknacker
11-16-2007, 04:26 PM
This happen when you try to cross a small brigde with a main battle tank. I hope to end the "bridgemania" with this images.

Nickdfresh
11-16-2007, 05:00 PM
It's also much easier for combat engineers to build bridges for smaller MBTs like the Panther, which makes them somewhat practical...

Digger
11-16-2007, 05:21 PM
The main problem the German heavies had with bridges was usually associated with rail transport clearances and of course most rural roads in Europe had narrow bridges. On the Eastern Front the problem was the lack of bridges, forcing the Panzers to wait for combat engineers to construct bridges or ford the obstacle, which was not always practicable.

digger.

Panzerknacker
12-17-2007, 06:35 PM
The main problem the German heavies had with bridges was usually associated with rail transport clearances and of course most rural roads in Europe had narrow bridges


That in case of the river being really deep, the early Tigers and the Panthers have deep fording apparatus wich allowed to operate under 4 meters of water. The tank depicted above obviously did not make use of it.

tankgeezer
12-17-2007, 11:36 PM
The fording snorkels were probably sent to tunisia by accident...:)

Panzerknacker
12-18-2007, 06:14 PM
Actually no, those were standar equipment in the early Tiger 1s, but probably it would be more useful let that device in Germany, and save some weight in the process.

Panzerknacker
12-20-2007, 07:46 AM
Hunted Tiger.

Two soviet tankcrew admiring the effects of the 85 mm APCBC (lower penetration) and subcalibrated tugsten core ammo (upper penetrations) in a Tiger 1 turret side.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/50/t34vstiger762kn3.jpg

tankgeezer
12-20-2007, 11:36 AM
Hunted Tiger.

Two soviet tankcrew admiring the effects of the 85 mm APCBC (lower penetration) and subcalibrated tugsten core ammo (upper penetrations) in a Tiger 1 turret side.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/50/t34vstiger762kn3.jpg

When you care enough to send the very best,,, think T-Carbide.:mrgreen:
(at least it wasnt an engineering revision,,,)

tankgeezer
12-20-2007, 11:38 AM
Actually no, those were standar equipment in the early Tiger 1s, but probably it would be more useful let that device in Germany, and save some weight in the process.


I know, I was making a military joke,, It would be not unexpected for the supply people to send fording equipment to the desert...

Splinter54
12-20-2007, 01:16 PM
I know, I was making a military joke,, It would be not unexpected for the supply people to send fording equipment to the desert...
I swear (yes i do) they do this all on purpose just to annoy us! Instead of sending T-Shirts, they are sending Winter Underwear to Afghanistan in the best beginning Summertime (~40°C) ... must be funny for them? God save the 'Packed by ,accident' the wrong supplies'-cause (declared as: 'It is what you've ordered, isn't it?') :-?

Panzerknacker
12-21-2007, 04:22 PM
I know, I was making a military joke,, It would be not unexpected for the supply people to send fording equipment to the desert...




I swear (yes i do) they do this all on purpose just to annoy us! Instead of sending T-Shirts, they are sending Winter Underwear to Afghanistan in the best beginning Summertime (~40°C) ... must be funny for them? God save the 'Packed by ,accident' the wrong supplies'-cause (declared as: 'It is what you've ordered, isn't it?')


I know at list two cases, one in wich the sand yellow Pz III were delivered to...the russian winter and other in wich Rommel received Porsche Typ 166 amphibius vehicles originally devoted to the Leningrad Front, of course the german bureocracy was to second to none, at list in those times. :rolleyes:

windrider
01-01-2008, 01:33 PM
Pictures of Tigers loading for Rommel's army.

Drake
01-01-2008, 01:57 PM
I know at list two cases, one in wich the sand yellow Pz III were delivered to...the russian winter and other in wich Rommel received Porsche Typ 166 amphibius vehicles originally devoted to the Leningrad Front, of course the german bureocracy was to second to none, at list in those times. :rolleyes:

Ha, they can still easily beat that performance today, they're professionals and still getting better :rolleyes:.
Since today for example, you're no longer allowed to use a mercedes sprinter without a backdoor window in cologne and other cities (germany introduced an environment badge to reduce fine dust emissions by diesel engines in downtown city areas), since it is classified as a truck. If you own the same type with a backdoor window (classified as car) you may however still drive into the cities :D
That's the way bureaucrazy (yeah, it's wordplay, not wrong spelling :P) over here works.

Panzerknacker
01-02-2008, 08:04 AM
Very good pictures Nick, I love that with teh camel. :)



Ha, they can still easily beat that performance today, they're professionals and still getting better


Welll...at list they still let you go 250 km/h in the autobanh :D

Flammpanzer
01-02-2008, 09:57 AM
Welll...at list they still let you go 250 km/h in the autobanh

wrong. ;) if your car provides the power, you can even drive 350 km/h or more. but only few routes on the autobahn are without a speed-limit and the traffic here is nearly collapsing, so the fast-driving is often only a dream.

Major Walter Schmidt
01-05-2008, 12:38 PM
Jagdtiger has way bigger caliber!
128mm pak 44!
unlike those 88mm on the regular tigers...

IRISH TIGER
01-09-2008, 04:15 PM
A snow plough was added to some tiger 1s if this would be classed as extra armour!;)


Otto Carius Tiger ace:


Otto Carius
(May 27, 1922)


Otto Carius was born on May 27th of 1922 in Zweibrucken, Rheinland-Pfalz in Southwest Germany. Just as he graduated from school, World War II broke out and he volunteered for 104th Infantry Placement Battalion in May of 1940. Following training, he was assigned to the 21st Panzer Regiment and experienced his first battle as a loader on a Panzer 38(t) (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pzcz.htm) during the "Barbarossa" operation in June of 1941. After about a year of war experience on the Eastern Front, Carius was accepted in an Officer Candidate Course and following its completion, was assigned to the 502nd Heavy Tank Battalion in April of 1943.

Equipped with the new Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) tanks, he was assigned as a tank commander to the 2nd Company of 502nd Tank Battalion. That summer, the 2nd Company was deployed to the Russian Leningrad Front and took part in several operations in that area. During that time, 502nd Tank Battalion was ordered to reinforce the front along with 11th SS Freiwillige Panzergrenadier Division "Nordland" at Narva Bridgehead.

During one of his engagements, Carius destroyed four Soviet SU-85s and successfully withdrew without losses. In June of 1944, the company was transferred to Dunaburg (Daugavpils in Latvia) to defend the city from a concentrated Russian offensive.

In the July of 1944, Russians outflanked the German defensive lines via the motorways west of Minsk and Borissov to Witebsk (same route was used by Germans in 1941). By using tanks in vast numbers, Soviets intended to divide the German occupied territory into small salients and then take port city of Riga. Since Riga is situated at the mouth of Dvina River, Dunaburg was an important strategic point for both Germans and Russians.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/carius_1.jpgOn July 22 of 1944, 1st Lieutenant Otto Carius with his company of eight (early and mid production) Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) advanced towards village of Malinava (northern suburb of Dunaburg) in order to halt the Russian advance. 1st Lieutenant Otto Carius and 1st Lieutenant Albert Kerscher (one of the most decorated commanders of sPzAbt 502) took a Kubelwagen in order to check if the village was already occupied by Russians.

They discovered that village of Malinava was already occupied by the enemy. Carius recognized that the Russian tanks in the village were only advance troops waiting for the main force to arrive. He decided to recapture the village before the arrival of reinforcements. Carius returned to his company for briefing and explained his plan to take the village.

He decided to attack the village using only two tanks because there was only one road leading to the village and rushing all of his Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) would be dangerous. Six Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) remained in the reserve while Carius and Kerscher's Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) moved towards the village of Malinava. Speed was the essence of Carius' strategy and it was decisive to upset Russians and immobilize their tanks.

When Carius' Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) No.217 was about to enter the village, two T-34/85 (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/t34.htm) tanks were observed rotating their turrets. At this moment, Kerscher's Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) No.213 which followed Carius at about 150m, fired and knocked them out. Also for the first time, Otto Carius encountered Russian's latest JS-1 (or possibly JS-2) heavy tank. Its silhouette was somewhat similar to the German King Tiger (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz5.htm) and Carius was confused at first but after hesitating a bit, he fired and JS-1 burst into flames. Afterwards, Otto Carius recalls that the entire battle did not last more than 20 minutes. In such a short time, Carius and Kerscher's Tigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm) knocked out 17 Russian tanks including the new JS-1. Although the Russians were attacked by suprise, Carius' quick and accurate recognition of the situation and the excellent tactics used were the main factors in the outcome. Carius' achievement at Malinava is equally outstanding to Michael Wittmann (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen3.htm)'s achievement at Villers-Bocage.

In November of 1943, Otto Carius destroyed 10 Soviet T-34/76 (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/t34.htm) tanks at the distances as low as 50 meters.In August of 1944, Otto Carius was transferred to Paderbornto the newly created schwere Panzerjager Abteilung 512 and received the command of the 2nd company. sPzJagAbt 512 was equipped with powerful Jagdtigers (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz12.htm), armed with 128mm Pak 44 L/55 gun. Carius commanded the 2nd company, which was training at Senne Camp near Paderborn and at Dollersheim near Vienna. On March 8th of 1945, without finishing its training, 2nd company was directed to the frontline near Siegburg. It then took part in the defence of the River Rhine and eventually surrendered to the US Army on April 15th of 1945. Interesting fact is that Otto Carius, only wore his Knight's Cross at the front, as it was a "pass" to get requests filled better. After the war, Otto Carius became an owner of a pharmacy called Tiger Apotheke.


Born: 27 May 1922 in Zweibrucken
Awards:
- Iron Cross 2nd and 1st Class (EK II and EK I),
- Knights Cross (Ritterkreuz),
- Oakleaves to the Knights Cross (Eichenlaub),
- Wound Badge in Gold,
- Panzer Battle Badge in Silver (100),
Total victories (kills):
- 150-200 tanks,
* Majority of this score was tailed on the Eastern Front.Source: www.achtungpanzer.com (http://www.achtungpanzer.com)
Another panzer ace (HANS BOLTER) good friend of his. Do you know him?

It was the Tiger 1 that fordged the Tiger ledgend;)

IRISH TIGER
01-09-2008, 04:46 PM
Panzerknacker, did the Tiger P see action in this form at the end (45) Berlin

IRISH TIGER
01-09-2008, 05:11 PM
Nice pics but:




The King Tiger did not participate in the African battles, in 1944 when this AFV entered in service the war in that continent was already over.

Panzerknacker do you spot the diff in gun barrels?

Splinter54
01-10-2008, 12:09 PM
Tiger I Ausf. E in Italy 1943
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1065/tiger1italiendx2.th.jpg (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tiger1italiendx2.jpg)

Normally StuGs had a Zimmeritpattern called Waffelmuster (Wafflepattern) - i heard of a Panther which had that one too, but have you EVER seen a Tiger with that pattern? :D
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7679/tigerwaffelzimmeritmw6.th.jpg (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tigerwaffelzimmeritmw6.jpg)

Tiger I Ausf. E somewhere in a roads ditch - you see something strange? No? Look closely to at the right mudguard ... still see nothing? Ok, there is a Königstiger in the background :D - also note the winter tempera camouflage
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/1591/tiger1graben1mc5.th.jpg (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tiger1graben1mc5.jpg)

German 'Doku-Soap' Spiegel TV at XXP
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6612/tiger1grabenwl2.th.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tiger1grabenwl2.jpg)

Königstiger infront of the Potsdamer Bahnhof in Berlin May 1945
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7194/berlin45tiger1jk4.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berlin45tiger1jk4.jpg)

Same, just from another angle
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/7171/berlin45tigermv5.th.jpg (http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berlin45tigermv5.jpg)

That Königstiger broke into a Tube shaft (U-Bahn Tunnel) in Danzig
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5350/danzig45tigerubahnschacky1.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=danzig45tigerubahnschacky1.jpg)

IRISH TIGER
01-13-2008, 05:07 PM
In the one and a half years of its existence,the battalion knocked-out more than 500+ tanks.
TOP SCORERS
SS Hauptstrumfuhrer Wittmann=121 kills
SS-Oberstrumfuhrer Wendorff=95kills
SS-Oberstrumfuhrer Brandt=57kills
SS-Unterscharfuhrer Warmbrunn=57kills
SS-Strumbannfuhrer Kling=51kills
hope this helps

IRISH TIGER
01-13-2008, 05:40 PM
A kompanie commander made the following observations that were derived from their experience in fighting Russian heavy tanks:1 when a tiger appears most JS2S,KVS AND T34/85 turn away and attempt to avoid a firefight; 2 in many cases,the heavy tanks of the russians let themselves engage in a firefight only at long range (over 2000meters for the js tanks) and only when they themselves are in a favorable positions;3 the crews lean towards evacuating their tanks immediately after the first shot is fired at them;4 it has proven to be useful after the first hit is registered to blind a JS2 with a sprenggranaten shell (HIGH EXPIOSIVE SHELL).
It is especially important for tigers to pay direct attention to the general combat principles for tank-vs tank combat

Sickles
01-14-2008, 11:20 AM
IRISH TIGER,
I remember reading in "Panzers in the mud" That Otto Carius' Jadtiger hit a Sherman with its 128 and as Carius puts it " The Sherman was blown apart". !

ww2admin
01-14-2008, 11:26 AM
Pictures of Tigers loading for Rommel's army.

Windrider, what does that yellow tape on the pictures say?

windrider
01-15-2008, 08:09 AM
Sorry, my bad !
I could not refrain myself, since it's the first time I see this roll of film.
I'll post the link instead next time. At least I didn't "hot-linked" them so nobody will complain about bandwidth issues...

P.s. I find copyrights on war pictures, especially of captured german WW2 origin, to be taken lightly, unless it's from a museum collection, and/or official organisation.
Any person can ad a watermarks on any pictures with any sort of claims. It's History after all and everybody will benefit from as large diffusion as possible.
This problem has been going on for at least 10 years, when big business like Microsoft and Time Warner started buying web content, as if they didn't make enough money...
But this is web 2.0 now.
Sorry if it has caused you any inconvenience.

Sickles
01-15-2008, 10:33 AM
I will have to pick the Tiger 1 over the Tiger II. The effectiveness and survival of a tank depend on the triangle of protection, firepower and mobility. While the Tiger II was more heavily armoured in the front, it was a slow moving behemouth and presented a huge vulnerable target on its flanks and rear. This is how most were destroyed by the Americans/Brits on the road to berlin. The pak 43 88mm was definately more powerful than the Tiger1 L/56 gun however the Tiger i could still kill ANY alied Tank even in 1945 and from long distances. bottom line, TIGER I had no major weakness compared to the TIGER II's lack of mobility.

Panzerknacker
01-15-2008, 04:04 PM
IRISH TIGER,
I remember reading in "Panzers in the mud" That Otto Carius' Jadtiger hit a Sherman with its 128 and as Carius puts it " The Sherman was blown apart". !


As every vehicle hit with that monster gun.:rolleyes:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/images/styles/ww2/misc/progress.gif


Panzerknacker, did the Tiger P see action in this form at the end (45) Berlin

No, at list I have no information about the participation of that vehicle in the final battles of Berlin.

.50cal.forever
01-18-2008, 10:17 PM
I would have to go with the Tiger 1 simply because it looks better, and you are practically invulnerable (except form aircraft bombs). But that is just my two cents in the mater.

shoogs
02-02-2008, 05:14 PM
panzerknackeryou do seem to be the one with a lot of knowledge, now this may seem a strange question, in fact i might have even asked b4 but what is the tank that playes in a:saving private ryan b: kellys heros. iv been told that they are the russian t55, when i go looking for this tank it does not seem to be the same. in the films they have the right turret but the tracks are flat all the way across, the pic's iv seen of the t55 slope but on another site Achtung Panzer it too says and shows that a t55has flat tracks..

i do hope this all makes sence to you and im sorry for making the question long..
thanks
shoogs

Nickdfresh
02-02-2008, 06:53 PM
panzerknackeryou do seem to be the one with a lot of knowledge, now this may seem a strange question, in fact i might have even asked b4 but what is the tank that playes in a:saving private ryan b: kellys heros. iv been told that they are the russian t55, when i go looking for this tank it does not seem to be the same. in the films they have the right turret but the tracks are flat all the way across, the pic's iv seen of the t55 slope but on another site Achtung Panzer it too says and shows that a t55has flat tracks..

i do hope this all makes sence to you and im sorry for making the question long..
thanks
shoogs

I believe both tanks were actually modified T-34/85s actually...It's somewhat discernable in "SPR" if you pay attention to the wheels...

Panzerknacker
02-02-2008, 08:02 PM
Indeed, as Nick both are T-34s, the diferences of the hull with the T-55 are:

- The T-55 hull is longer

- The second roadwheel in the T-55 has a wide gap in betwenn, the T-34s ones has not.

For the trained is painfully easy to recognize the fake since the lack of interleaves wheels and the narrow tracks.

I found out those ugly replicas used in that movies a bit disheartning, It would be better to film using an actual and accurate vehicle in like a Panzer IV, III, a SD Kfz 251, those are more easy to get.

However no...everyone want a Tiger in his movie, even a false one, this is a good indication that despite the years this german heavy has not lost its charm, not even a bit.

Tiger 211 of s.Pz.Abt.503 in front of a thatched-roof farmhouse.

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8222/tiger1spzabt50301nw0.jpg

kallinikosdrama1992
03-28-2008, 09:59 AM
This question might be stupid but i am going to ask it because i a little bit new in the tank staff .

Could a Sherman breach the front armour of a Tiger ? If yes from what range ?
Was any point that could hit from a Sherman and drive to the Tiger's destruction
?

I read that the 17pdr gun could breach the front armour of a Tiger I or of a Tiger II ?

I saw a picture of a destroyed Tiger I and in front of it two American soldiers . And beneath it was written that it was the first Tiger I that had been destroyed by an M26 Pershing . Could a shell from the 90mm gun of the Pershing tank penetrate front armour of a Tiger I ?

Panzerknacker
03-28-2008, 10:03 AM
Man, dont be so stupid, there is plenty of topic dealing with The tiger and Sherman, I have a long topic about the Tiger tanks in this section, there is no need to open a new one with a question that has been already aswered several times. Use the search options. Is this what is made for.

kallinikosdrama1992
03-28-2008, 10:05 AM
Thanks . I didn't know something about this .

Thanks again

Nickdfresh
03-28-2008, 10:48 AM
No problem, thread merged...

In any case, the answer to your question is yes. The British 17 pdr. gun and the US 90mm could pierce the frontal armor of a Tiger. I also believe (but could be wrong) that the US 76mm M-3 gun, towards the end of the War, could pierce the armor provided it was firing tungsten AP shot. But the "Easy-Eight" Sherman would have been at a disadvantage as the Tiger's 88mm out-ranged it..

P.S.: Here's a nice site with a full chart:

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1-02.htm

kallinikosdrama1992
03-29-2008, 10:31 AM
Thanks for this answer Nickdfresh . And also for the site you provided . And another question . Well i am sure it's stupid but i am asking it . Was there any chance a Sherman not to be destroyed by a Tiger I ? From what i read is impossible but ... So i'm asking

panzer228
04-24-2008, 08:39 PM
I have seen a concerning question found on http://www.freepowerboards.com/gworldwar2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19. Although I do not wish to repeat it, can anyone provide information. Please do not reply here, but on the website I provided. Thank you. ;)

Panzerknacker
04-24-2008, 10:16 PM
I dont know how high is your IQ but you might notice that there is already a BIG Tiger tank topic, there is absolutely no need to create another.

And is completely unethical to enter here and beg for answers for other place, if you sign in ww2incolor forum was with the purpose to participate in this site...or not ? If the answer is no, then you better leave.

By the way, I know the answer to your question, I know even the guy who is in the turret of the KT in the foreground , if you behave and post it in the correct place you will have a response, but no in this way

Firefly
04-25-2008, 02:07 PM
Lets keep some perspective here. Pk is right to question why someone would ask for posts to another board but its not exactly the crime of the century.

Nice little forum by the way....

Panzerknacker
04-25-2008, 08:03 PM
Is not the crime of the century but is a bad attitude aniway.

thanks George for merging the two topics.

http://i25.tinypic.com/2rykeia.jpg

George Eller
04-25-2008, 10:05 PM
Is not the crime of the century but is a bad attitude aniway.

thanks George for merging the two topics.

http://i25.tinypic.com/2rykeia.jpg
-

no problema mi amigo.

-

Nickdfresh
04-26-2008, 03:47 AM
The above picture(s) says it all. Iron tip of the spear and a shaft of wood! a Tiger tank --followed up by largely horse-drawn supply and tow train! That was the Wehrmacht...

Librarian
04-26-2008, 05:44 PM
Oh, probably you haven’t seen those much more pungent pictures about ruthless fuel shortages back there in 1944, my dear Mr. Nickdfresh. Believe it or not, but sometimes even mighty Tiger I tank was used to transport sick and wounded soldiers to the provisory airfields, evacuation centers and field hospitals. This pretty blunted picture that was taken in the April of 1944 sufficiently speaks for itself:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Tiger1-krankenwagen1944.jpg

Tiger I Krankenwagen, 1944

Factual, greatly uncomfortable position of the wounded soldiers is clearly visible – they are placed together with their stretchers on the back of the hull, above the engine compartment.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Tiger1-krankenwagen1944-2.jpg

Tiger I – Heavy Tracked Ambulance Carrier, Eastern Front, 1944

Nevertheless, it can reasonably be argued that most human activities, those battle ones or otherwise, always do involve some degree of... improvisation. ;)

Panzerknacker
04-27-2008, 10:01 PM
Wow... nice picture there Librarian. I think improvisation was the word of the day for the Germay Army, specially in the Eastern Front, for example in 1943 the Group Army South used more horses than all the formations invading France in 1940.

Another "horseshoe and track" stile of photo, a rider delivers mail to a Nashorn tank killer crew.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4764/nashor11kk0.jpg

Panzerknacker
05-07-2008, 07:04 PM
Tiger 1 captured in the outskirts of Leningrad in late 1944, the towing vehicle is a turretless KV tank.

http://i31.tinypic.com/169j6hg.jpg

snebold
05-20-2008, 05:44 AM
What the Tiger I needed was sloped frontal armour and perhaps a diesel engine. The latter takes some time to summon up, if you don´t happen to have a suitable one already, but I can see no excuse for the former.

I don´t know the stats, but I suspect that the 80mm sloped hull front of the Panther provided better protection than the 100mm near vertical of the Tiger I.

The knowledge of the benefits of sloped armour has been around since spears and arrows first met bronze, if not before. Vertical front armour in a new tank by 1942 was, in my opinion, ridiculous and inexcusable.

Panzerknacker
05-20-2008, 06:15 PM
Vertical front armour in a new tank by 1942 was, in my opinion, ridiculous and inexcusable.


Agreed. It must be the british influence. :mrgreen:

Churchill

http://www.bbc.co.uk/threecounties/community/vauxhall/historic_gallery/historic4.jpg


Centaur

http://www.1jma.dk/Pics/centaur/centaur1.jpg


Cromwell

http://www.fjavier.net/carros/uk/mk8cromwell1.jpg


Comet

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/GreatBritain/GB-Cruiser-Comet-A34.jpg

Splinter54
05-27-2008, 11:22 AM
Good day.

Can anybody help me please?

I don't know the Unit [can't see the Tactical Number], but it must be in Russia [house forms] and the trees on the sides of the hull must be specific to a unit?

So my question now is:

The Tiger Ausf. H [Frühe Ausführung, Commanders Coppula] seems to have extra added armor steel plates left of the coaxial main gun MG and right to the gunners sights at the Kanonen-Blende.

Is that a field modification, probably some parts from destroyed russian tanks [?], or a standard modification for the early models of the Tiger? And to which unit do the displayed vehicles belong?

Thanks in advance :)

http://i28.tinypic.com/2131zwk.jpg

Panzerknacker
05-27-2008, 06:06 PM
The unit question going to be a difficult one because there is no markings visibles.

The other part is probably a field enhancement.

larryparamedic
05-29-2008, 12:17 PM
[QUOTE=Panzerknacker;94771]The Tiger 1 and 2 did not use the "schurzen" of any other aditional armor, sometimes spare track were placed in those areas.




Wasn't Zimmerit placed on the Tigers? Not quite additional 'armor' but protection nonetheless.

Panzerknacker
05-30-2008, 10:00 PM
Yes but in the Tiger II was rarely seen due the order to stop applying the antimagnetic coat starting in september 1944. And most of the King Tigers entered in service after that date.

http://i25.tinypic.com/123o4u0.jpg

Panzerknacker
06-13-2008, 10:23 AM
Engineers Tiger ?



This speciallly modified Tiger was found abandoned by the allies near the Anzio Beach head in 1944, is say that the winch was to lay explosive charges, but that afirmation has not been confirmed by german sources.

http://i26.tinypic.com/3022tys.jpg


http://i27.tinypic.com/aonqjd.jpg

snebold
06-18-2008, 06:42 AM
Funny way to use such an expensive vehicle...

Jagdpanther
06-20-2008, 01:58 PM
I recently have seen a tiger 1 being transported on a flatbed truck

Panzerknacker
06-20-2008, 04:35 PM
Funny way to use such an expensive vehicle...


A real mistery, beside it look like a ofensive weapon, to be used against fortifications, bunkers and so, why was captured in a defensive emplacement...? nobody knows.

http://www.valka.cz/users_admin/html/images/6_2003/image1055670297.jpg

Major Walter Schmidt
06-22-2008, 05:11 AM
I recently have seen a tiger 1 being transported on a flatbed truck

Maybe its one of those movie props.

artmiser
06-22-2008, 12:12 PM
Well if it was in California I can bet where it was headed.

Major Walter Schmidt
06-22-2008, 06:55 PM
where?

imi
06-28-2008, 11:51 AM
The Tiger and the Elefant series are the best tanks in WW2,designed by Ferdinand Porsche,he make excellent job
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Tiger_II_mit_Porscheturm.jpg/800px-Tiger_II_mit_Porscheturm.jpg
Excellent
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/elep_1.jpg

Panzerknacker
06-28-2008, 01:28 PM
The Porsche petrol-electric drive was far from "excellent" :rolleyes: