Favorite Gun In the Russian Army

[GermanSoldier]

What is your favoriate weapon of the Russian Army in WW2. My is the
PPSH 42. It was a very good Sub-Machine gun. Good clip magazines. Not so good accuracy. Very good rate of fire. Good close quarter combat. This was one of the most used Sub-Machine gun. If you would please tell me what gun and give me your favorite of it. Please no guns if there a captured gun that was used.

[GermanSoldier]

Here is a picture of my favorite gun of the PPSH.

[RifleMan20]

Might not be everyones favorite,but I like the Mosin Nagant.If you want to learn more about weapons go to this site:

http://www.military-collections.com/weapons.html

[GermanSoldier]

Here is a German Soldier with a captured PPSH42.
http://i18.tinypic.com/2m4q0pi.jpg

[bas]

Here is a German Soldier with a captured PPSH42.
http://i18.tinypic.com/2m4q0pi.jpg

<groan> Here's some homework for you ;)

1. What year was the PPSh introduced to russian service (i.e. the correct name is PPSh-4?)
2. What gun is the Wafen SS soldier in the above picture using? (hint: it's not a captured Russian gun).

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

Is it a Suomi? (I really can't spell it, but I believe it's Finnish)

Also, there were different models of the 'PPSH SMG'

[Gen. Sandworm]

Is it a Suomi? (I really can't spell it, but I believe it's Finnish)


Suomi mean Finland! FYI

[bas]

Is it a Suomi? (I really can't spell it, but I believe it's Finnish)

Nope.

Also, there were different models of the 'PPSH SMG'

And nope, there was only one official model of the PPSh but there were small production variations (leaf rear sight on the very first model and some people say that a full-auto only version was produced but I haven't seen any evidence of that).

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

Ok, then my experience from Red Orchestra is wrong, hehe...

[bas]

Ok, then my experience from Red Orchestra is wrong, hehe...

The designers of the Red Orchestra mod / game pride themselves on accuracy of their gun models. Except for game balance they made the PPSh full-auto only.

I think you are confusing the PPSh with the PPS which are two completly different guns from two different designers. The PPS originally came out as the PPS-42 and then the PPS-43 when it was modified slightly.

Edit; just remembered that Red Orchestra also has the PPD-40 which was from a completly different designer.

Here's a tip on Soviet WWII weapons, their desigination is a combination of weapon type, designers initial and year of introduction so PP stands for submachine gun, D for Degtyarev the designer and 40 for the year 1940.

[GermanSoldier]

Could you guys please Private Message each other on the talking about what gun it is. I'm trying to keep the thread on topic. Because I do not like it when somebody says something and it ends up being a big way of using the thread as your own.

[bas]

Could you guys please Private Message each other on the talking about what gun it is. I'm trying to keep the thread on topic. Because I do not like it when somebody says something and it ends up being a big way of using the thread as your own.

How can you keep a thread on topic when you are posting wrong information?

Ok my "on topic" post; my favourite Soviet WWII gun would be the DP-27 infantry machine gun.
Extreamly simple, very reliable, solid rate of fire and it does ugly in a way that only the Russians have mastered!

http://www.gunpics.net/russian/dp27/dp271.JPG

My all time favourite Russian gun would have to be the SVD sniper rifle.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

I'd have to say the PPSH-4 because of it's:

-High Rate of Fire
-Small number of parts
-Ammo Compacity
-Easily manufactured form
-High reliability

Could someone please tell me if it had good accuracy? I wouldn't think it would, but I'm not sure.

[bas]

Could someone please tell me if it had good accuracy? I wouldn't think it would, but I'm not sure.

It's sufficiently accurate for the type of weapon it is (open bolt, short barreled SMG firing a pistol cartridge). Nothing spectacular but can easily hit a mans' torso at 150m.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

Another question:

How would the Germans fit it to a 9mm Parabellum round?

[bas]

Another question:

How would the Germans fit it to a 9mm Parabellum round?

They replaced the barrel with a 9mm one and made an adaptor so that it could accept MP.40 magazines. Although in my opinion you could probably load the drum with 9mm and it will feed properly (based on limited testing).

[GermanSoldier]

bas I like your pick. Very good gun. This gun is a great machine gun for holding up positions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were not much of these because of Russia's Factorys were being taken over in the beginning of the war.
http://i5.tinypic.com/44vp7i9.jpg

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

The Soviet Union was a big place. I think they'd have plenty of factories beyond Moscow ;)

[GermanSoldier]

The Soviet Union was a big place. I think they'd have plenty of factories beyond Moscow ;)

Okay, well i was not 100 percent sure because of the German invasion. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

Just to clarify:

Does this thread also include artillery guns?

[GermanSoldier]

Just to clarify:

Does this thread also include artillery guns?

I will allow it as long as we keep it on topic.

[Panzerknacker]

My favorite gun is the Tokarev semi-auto, a lot more firepower than Mosin-Nagant.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3481/tokarevfg1.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1865/tokang1.jpg

[Man of Stoat]

Okay, let's just clear a few things up:

Model designation: PPSh-41. not 42, nor 4.

9mmP feeds fine out of the drum magazine without modification. The drum magazine design was ripped off an earlier (finish?) 9 mm design anyway. Any PPSh that you see in a recent film will be running 9 mm blanks out of an unmodified drum. A friend of mine has even done some of the conversions for films.

SVT 40 -- lovely lovely lovely, I will be firing mine this evening.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

Yes, but the SVT 40 was very complex and jammed alot.

[bas]

Yes, but the SVT 40 was very complex and jammed alot.

No more complex than any other semi-auto of the day and just as reliable. The thing you need to be aware of with the SVT-40's is that it has an adjustable gas port that needs to be set according to the ammunition used. Get that right and they feed flawlessly. Get it wrong.....

Stoat see if you can organise a trip to Finland to play on a DP, you might change your mind ;)

[Man of Stoat]

The SVT 40 is mechanically much simpler than the Garand and G43. With the gas set correctly and a non-buggered magazine it works brilliantly.

They do sometimes split groups though, and the barrel mirage comes up quite quickly and makes the target dance.

[GermanSoldier]

[QUOTE=Man of Stoat;93923]The SVT 40 is mechanically much simpler than the Garand and G43. With the gas set correctly and a non-buggered magazine it works brilliantly.

Yes, I totally agree. It was a wonderful gun. So far I have not heard of any disaffects of the gun. I have heard some problems with the but they could have been handled better because it seemed like they did not take care of the gun in battles.

[Man of Stoat]

Here are some defects:

The charger loading option is abysmal, and possibly even slower than loading loose rounds once all magazines are exhausted.
the gas regulator is very small and fiddly and easily lost.
Barrel mirage comes up very quickly.
The trigger pull could be better.
Sometimes it will split groups.
Getting the trigger mechanism back in requires considerable force (I use a plastic hammer).
The muzzle brake makes life very unpleasant for people on either side of you.

Other than that, it really is lovely.

[Styepan]

9mmP feeds fine out of the drum magazine without modification. The drum magazine design was ripped off an earlier (finish?) 9 mm design anyway. Any PPSh that you see in a recent film will be running 9 mm blanks out of an unmodified drum. A friend of mine has even done some of the conversions for films.

Very true, I have fired 9mm blank from a PPS and PPSh with no problems (fits the mag brilliantly. The mag design was ripped off the Konepistooli m/31 Suomi (finnish), if you look at the PPD40 and the PPSh41 you can see the transition.

Got to say, my money is on the PPSh 41 and the PPS 43, having fired both and had no problems, despite the PPSh 41 being in rag order and using dodgy soviet ammo.

Just for fun, from a re-enactment in Russia in January this year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB-LKeYXw9E

[Shin_OBI]

http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/articles/wow/ppsh41/ppsh4101.jpg

My favorite

[Walther]

Okay, let's just clear a few things up:

Model designation: PPSh-41. not 42, nor 4.

9mmP feeds fine out of the drum magazine without modification. The drum magazine design was ripped off an earlier (finish?) 9 mm design anyway. Any PPSh that you see in a recent film will be running 9 mm blanks out of an unmodified drum. A friend of mine has even done some of the conversions for films.

SVT 40 -- lovely lovely lovely, I will be firing mine this evening.

AFAIK, the dimensions of the base of the casing of the Soviet 7.62x 25 mm round (based on a Mauser design, I think 7.63 Mauser) are the same as the 9mm Para. So the bolt would have no problem in digesting the 9mm Para. In the Soviet version the casing is a bit longer and bottle necked to accept the smaller projectile.

Jan

[Walther]

I also have to say that the "Best gun" threads annoy me a bit.
The best gun for WHAT?
If you are in a fixed position and you need sustained fire for defense the old Maxim (heavy but indestructable, just like the British Vickers) will be the best.
If you need automatic fire over a longer distance, I'd take the old Dushka, DShK 12.7 mm heavy MG.
As a sniper, I'd use the Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 with telescopic sight. It has the advantage of not ejecting gleaming brass into the air, which can be seen by the enemy. BTW, it is still widely being used as a hunting rifle in Russia.
My mate would e.g. have a SVT-41 cover my back, higher firepower, plus the ammo is interchangeable with the one of the Mosin-Nagant.
As a light MG the DP-27 and for close combat the PPsH-41 or the PPS-43.

And if I had to tackle a SKfz 251 or a similarly light armoured vehicle I'd like to have a PTRS or a PTRD anti tank rifle nearby.

Jan

Edit:
Obviously if I'm a soldier I'd have to use whatever I get issued with.

[Strina-Croatia]

I give my vote to the Mosin-Nagant rifle for me the best of the best.

[cam77]

Nagant by far. The Finns captured many such rifles in the winter war and made many upgrades. The Finnish Nagant that results is a much better finished rifle.

[Vorontsov]

My favourite gun is: PPSH, Mosin, SVT, Dehterev, TT and many others. Generally I consider that Russian gunsmiths are some of luchshekh themselves in the world!

[Vassili Chukolov]

It all depends though.

SVT-40, seems like an all around gun, Snipers used it, ground troops, etc. Semi automatic, and 10 rounds! No wonder some of the germans captured them and used them ( or they could have ran out of ammunition...)

[tankgeezer]

Another question:

How would the Germans fit it to a 9mm Parabellum round?

to refit this weapon to fire a different caliber, it would be needing an entirely new Barrel, the ppsh series was chambered for a .30 caliber round similar to the one fired by the 1896 mauser pistol. Using a bottlenecked case. So a new tube would be needed. As well the bolt face at least would need some changing if the base diameter was different from the original. The recoil springs, may need to have different specifications too. Then, there is the magazine. Frankly, the original round was better suited to the conditions encountered in Russia. One question as I dont remember myself, but were the models of ppsh the 38, and 41? Thanks, - Raspenau -

[tankgeezer]

<groan> Here's some homework for you ;)

1. What year was the PPSh introduced to russian service (i.e. the correct name is PPSh-4?)
2. What gun is the Wafen SS soldier in the above picture using? (hint: it's not a captured Russian gun).

The pic of the Russian guns shows at the bottum next to the flat drum M.G. what looks like a K-50m, or is it a predecessor?