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RifleMan20
01-27-2007, 06:35 PM
In World War 2 the M1 was a very succesful weapon and a the common rifle for the Americans.Do you viewers think we would of won the war with out the M1?

GermanSoldier
01-27-2007, 09:56 PM
I believe so because of the other weapons we have. Thank about Russia, Britian, Australia, and many other countrys won the war without the M1. But if they did not have the M1 the only rifle would be a Springfield. Still I say the war still could have been won without the M1.

RifleMan20
01-28-2007, 09:13 AM
Thank you for your reply.:)

GermanSoldier
01-28-2007, 10:21 AM
Here is a different type of M1 in WW2. I just found it.

RifleMan20
01-28-2007, 10:29 AM
Great,thanks for the pics

GermanSoldier
01-28-2007, 10:49 AM
You are welcome. Because I know this was one of you'r favorite guns.

GermanSoldier
01-28-2007, 10:51 AM
But if they did not have the M1 the only rifle would be a Springfield. My bad there would still be a M1A1 Carbine.

Laconia
01-28-2007, 11:38 AM
In World War 2 the M1 was a very succesful weapon and a the common rifle for the Americans.Do you viewers think we would of won the war with out the M1?

Maybe. The M-1 was a fine weapon, it had a high rate of fire and worked well in most conditions. This weapon gave the average G.I. an edge when fighting against an enemy using bolt action rifles. I think in the end though what won the war for the Allies was the great amount of planes, artillery, and ingenuity that we had. Remember as for small arms, the Germans had the most fully auto weapons. Many machine guns and assault rifles.

GermanSoldier
01-28-2007, 11:39 AM
It was a good gun but I will stay with my statement and also agree with Laconia.

Laconia
01-28-2007, 11:52 AM
About 20 years ago I had an M-1. What a good shooter! Not much for recoil because of the gas system. The only drawback was the 8 rd clip. The Italians took the M-1, added a magazine in the bottom and called it the BM-59. (if I remember right) Back in the early 80's I almost bought one. I should have.

Panzerknacker
01-28-2007, 05:48 PM
The general Patton said something very flattering about this rifle :rolleyes:

GermanSoldier
01-28-2007, 06:02 PM
The general Patton said something very flattering about this rifle :rolleyes:

Never knew that.

Laconia
01-28-2007, 06:06 PM
That is cool that you had a M1

At that time I had quite the gun collection. A bunch of the WW2 small arms. I had the M-1, the .30 carbine, 1903 A-3 Springfield, .303 Lee Enfield, K-98 Mauser, and the .45 Colt auto Pistol. Had a house fire and they all burnt up!

PLT.SGT.BAKER
01-28-2007, 08:16 PM
Sorry for your loss, I would know if that happened to me.

PLT.SGT.BAKER
01-28-2007, 08:17 PM
The general Patton said something very flattering about this rifle :rolleyes:

Wasn't it something like "The greatest battle implement ever created"?

Laconia
01-29-2007, 05:37 PM
Yep, it did. Never could bring myself to build up the collection again. I would like to get another Garand though. This time I'll get an even better one. That 03-A3 Springfield was real sweet. I looked forever for that one. Finally found it in a small gun shop in Vermont - I bought it on the spot. The .303 Enfield was like new! I think it got made towards the end of the war and it was put in storage. It was packed in cosmoline when I got it.

GermanSoldier
01-29-2007, 05:52 PM
Dude that is sweet you have a .303 Enfield. Those things are hardcore.

RifleMan20
01-29-2007, 06:06 PM
Sorry about you collection Laconia,it seemed you enjoy WW2 weapons.

Panzerknacker
01-29-2007, 06:49 PM
Wasn't it something like "The greatest battle implement ever created"?

Yes that was the phrase. he was very impressed by this gun.


Garand argentine Variant.( 7,65mm)

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8981/garand3wz8.jpg


http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/103/garand2ta9.jpg


http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7406/garand4ok9.jpg


http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/379/garandfr5.jpg

GermanSoldier
01-29-2007, 06:53 PM
I noticed it said 1953. Does that mean it was made in 1953 because if so it would not be a world war2 weapon.

RifleMan20
01-29-2007, 06:53 PM
Man Panzerknaker those pics are awesome.

Panzerknacker
01-29-2007, 06:57 PM
Man Panzerknaker those pics are awesome.



Thanks.



I noticed it said 1953. Does that mean it was made in 1953 because if so it would not be a world war2 weapon.

You are correct.

GermanSoldier
01-29-2007, 07:01 PM
Why when I send pictures it has attached pictures. How do you get to look like your pictures Panzersnacker.

RifleMan20
01-29-2007, 07:02 PM
Well yeah,but its still a good model

RifleMan20
01-29-2007, 07:14 PM
I have got some info on the M1 Garand:

Weight-9lbs.8oz
Length-43.5in.
Calibur-.30
Cartridge-8 rounds

General Patton's weapon of choice,but has a defect,when ammo is out the cartridge flies out making a high "ping" noise that alerts enimies were out of ammo.

Panzerknacker
01-29-2007, 07:17 PM
Why when I send pictures it has attached pictures. How do you get to look like your pictures Panzersnacker


You have to upload it in a external server and then insert the link in the insert image" button in your post toolbar.



Well yeah,but its still a good model


Yes, very rare. This is the original.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4836/garandtw5.jpg

Panzerknacker
01-29-2007, 07:23 PM
General Patton's weapon of choice,but has a defect,when ammo is out the cartridge flies out making a high "ping" noise that alerts enimies were out of ammo.


That problem is overrated, just imagine a guy trowing some empty clips in the air...the enemy show their heads over the trench to see what happen...but the Garand armed soldier open fire...nasty isnt?? :roll:

RifleMan20
01-29-2007, 07:25 PM
Oh yeah,I remember that stratagy,its pretty useful.

RifleMan20
01-29-2007, 07:34 PM
Cool nice pics

GermanSoldier
01-29-2007, 08:02 PM
http://i5.tinypic.com/2up4is5.jpg

Laconia
01-29-2007, 09:17 PM
Laconia are you gonna start a another collection of guns.

No way. Don't have the cash, I got too many other expenses. Besides,after losing the collection I don't have the heart for it anymore.

GermanSoldier
01-30-2007, 02:15 PM
I see. Ya it must be hard to recover from that.

GermanSoldier
01-30-2007, 02:23 PM
Here is a soldier with a M1 Garand
http://i15.tinypic.com/2cdibf6.jpg

Gutkowski
01-31-2007, 09:03 PM
I dont think the USA would had have a problem with winning the war with out the M1 Garand ,Germans spread themselves too thin on all the fronts that they were fighting .As for the M1 I would never sell mine ,I have gotten rid of just about all my rifle collection (enfields , Mosins, SVT 40 ,Etc .
Here are a few of my July 1944 issue Springfield M1 ,
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/gutkowski/My%20WWII%20Collection/m1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/gutkowski/My%20WWII%20Collection/m17.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/gutkowski/My%20WWII%20Collection/m18.jpg

mike M.
01-31-2007, 09:15 PM
Here are a couple pics of one of my garands. This one is a Winchester.
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6461/m1garand1006bx9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4169/m1garand1004dv1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3411/m1garand1010hj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Panzerknacker
01-31-2007, 09:25 PM
Very nice pics, it seems in a very mint state. :cool:

RifleMan20
02-01-2007, 05:36 PM
my my,those are great pics,great condition,you sir are a great provider

GermanSoldier
02-01-2007, 07:55 PM
I have been thanking about this. Maybe the M1 Garand had more of an effect in the Pacific Campaign then the European Campaign. Just a thought. Still the war would have been won without it on both campaigns.

Panzerknacker
02-06-2007, 08:30 PM
Garand used by USMC sniper team.


http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/234/garanoz1.jpg

RifleMan20
02-10-2007, 12:33 AM
Here are some pics I found.The first one is just a M1,the second one is John Garand handing over a garand to the army officials,and the third one is show the M1 in more describle way.

George Eller
02-10-2007, 10:29 AM
-

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8600/5enfield15jo.jpg

-

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2161/6enfield86uo.jpg
(photos taken: 12 / 10 / 2005)
Two photos of my Lee-Enfield rifles. Top is a SMLE No. 1 Mk. III* made at a BSA (Birmingham Small Arms, Co.) controlled company near Birmingham in Shirley, England in 1940, with 1907 bayonet (17 in blade). Bottom is No 4 Mk I* made at the Long Branch Arsenal near Toronto, Canada in 1942, with spike bayonet.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4216/8sksm132rh.jpg
(photo taken: 12 / 10 / 2005)
Top is my Yugoslavian made SKS Model 59/66 rifle with Russian steel cased 7.62 x 39 mm ammo. Bottom is my brother's M-1 Garand rifle with eight round clip of .30-06 ammo.

-

RifleMan20
02-10-2007, 10:38 AM
Wow where do get the money to buy those guns,and I think you spended around $1000-$3000,but great models that the viewers and I can examine.

George Eller
02-10-2007, 10:50 AM
Wow where do get the money to buy those guns,and I think you spended around $1000-$3000,but great models that the viewers and I can examine.
-

Hi Rifleman,

Actually, I didn't pay quite that amount. The Lee-Enfields were bought back in the early 1980's. The SMLE No 1 Mk III was about $150 and the No 4 Mk I* was about $125 back then. I bought the SKS in 2005 for about $150. And my brother bought the M1 Garand at a local gun show 10 or 15 years ago for about $550 IIRC. So it wasn't that bad for me. :)

But, you are probably right as far as the cost for a similar collection in today's money.

-

Panzerknacker
02-10-2007, 05:32 PM
Lovely pics, quite acollection George, the last year began in my body a itch for the SKS but then I want a .44 ball & cap revolver also I want a .22 semiauto pistol for training,... sadly no money for all that. I going to pic just one.:neutral:

George Eller
02-10-2007, 06:02 PM
Lovely pics, quite acollection George, the last year began in my body a itch for the SKS but then I want a .44 ball & cap revolver also I want a .22 semiauto pistol for training,... sadly no money for all that. I going to pic just one.:neutral:
-

Thanks Panzerknacker,

Well the nice thing about the SKS is that they are more affordable compared to say an AK-47 or AR-15 military style semi-auto available on the civilian market. On a limited budget, I think that I would start out with the .22 semiauto pistol. The ammunition is very cheap, which is great if you're planning a lot of target practice. Just buy each one as you can afford. That's how I collected mine. Before you know it you'll have a fine collection built up. :)

-

Panzerknacker
02-10-2007, 06:12 PM
Yea, I have already a .22 rifle, is just that I want a handgun of this calibre. But unfortunately I fall in love of a Spiller & Burr .36 replica made by Fratelli Pietta. I think I going to squeeze my spare 500 dollars in that direction. :D

George Eller
02-10-2007, 06:23 PM
Yea, I have already a .22 rifle, is just that I want a handgun of this calibre. But unfortunately I fall in love of a Spiller & Burr .36 replica made by Fratelli Pietta. I think I going to squeeze my spare 500 dollars in that direction. :D
-

In that case, heck yea, go for it :D

-

Nickdfresh
02-10-2007, 09:19 PM
About 20 years ago I had an M-1. What a good shooter! Not much for recoil because of the gas system. The only drawback was the 8 rd clip. The Italians took the M-1, added a magazine in the bottom and called it the BM-59. (if I remember right) Back in the early 80's I almost bought one. I should have.

The US military did the same, only they refined it more and recalibrated it to 7.62X51mm NATO. That is of course the M-14 rifle, which is still in service today in small numbers as a intermediate range sniper arm.
http://www.veteranscava.org/Me%20-%20M14%20sniper%20rifle.JPG

Laconia
02-11-2007, 03:02 PM
The US military did the same, only they refined it more and recalibrated it to 7.62X51mm NATO. That is of course the M-14 rifle, which is still in service today in small numbers as a intermediate range sniper arm.
http://www.veteranscava.org/Me%20-%20M14%20sniper%20rifle.JPG

Yep. The M-14 is a fine rifle. It definitely felt better in the hands than the BM-59. Never fired either, but I have held them.

Laconia
02-11-2007, 03:07 PM
Lovely pics, quite acollection George, the last year began in my body a itch for the SKS but then I want a .44 ball & cap revolver also I want a .22 semiauto pistol for training,... sadly no money for all that. I going to pic just one.:neutral:

Isn't that the pits, not enough money for the things a person really needs. I see you are from Argentina. Do you have strict gun laws there?

Panzerknacker
02-11-2007, 03:26 PM
Do you have strict gun laws there


Yea they are complicated, the amount of paperwork excedes the imaginable. The black podwer weapons however are regulations free.


And by the way, I had see a lot of footage of the sniper variant of the M-14 in the CNN, it seems a very used rifle.

RifleMan20
02-22-2007, 08:23 PM
the m-14 looks like a awesome weapon,its preaty crazy to see all the changes the m1 went through

Panzerknacker
02-27-2007, 07:43 PM
The M-1 and M-14 seems to be a very widespread weapon in Irak, at list from the U.S.M.C snipers side.

----------------------

If somebody is patiente enough ( and also if had some spare hard disk space) can download this large official U.S army video about marksmanship with the M1, the video is great but large.

http://www.archive.org/download/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_Part_1/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_part_2.avi


http://ia311519.us.archive.org/0/items/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_Part_1/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_part_1.gif

Man of Stoat
02-28-2007, 09:13 AM
The M14 muzzle flips like buggery, and is mechanically insanely complicated. the bedding arrangement is also... questionable.

Better suited to a range than a battlefield IMHO.

The arguments presented for not adopting the AR 10 and FAL were essentially " not invented by Springfield armoury" dressed up in more politically expedient terms.

GermanSoldier
03-01-2007, 09:32 PM
The M-1 and M-14 seems to be a very widespread weapon in Irak, at list from the U.S.M.C snipers side.

----------------------

If somebody is patiente enough ( and also if had some spare hard disk space) can download this large official U.S army video about marksmanship with the M1, the video is great but large.

http://www.archive.org/download/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_Part_1/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_part_2.avi


http://ia311519.us.archive.org/0/items/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_Part_1/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_part_1.gif

I would be delighted to help you. Just give me a few hours and I will have it ready. Lets say about sometime during Friday in the afternoon if it sounds good to you.

Panzerknacker
03-02-2007, 08:35 AM
Is a big fat download GS, better check this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRCOr212E9g

GermanSoldier
03-02-2007, 02:45 PM
Is a big fat download GS, better check this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRCOr212E9g

I am sorry but I do not know how to download it. If you tell me I would.

Panzerknacker
03-02-2007, 06:34 PM
Is not donwloadable just to see online.

Panzerknacker
03-30-2007, 09:44 AM
Springfield and Garand, video of the serie "The tales of the gun" from HC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6XSs5K-Wgw

RifleMan20
03-30-2007, 10:19 PM
great video man i never knew that the springfield was the only rifle used in the invasion of gadalcanal and that garand was canadian

GliderInfantry
04-22-2008, 08:16 PM
I have seen in the movie battleground and band of brothers the M1 was load with a clip and the blot had to be push forward before firing is this how there were fired.?

Panzerknacker
04-22-2008, 08:25 PM
Of course you mean "M1 Garand"

There is some information here:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4277

tankgeezer
04-23-2008, 07:51 AM
The Clip, (in this case it is a clip, not a magazine,) is inserted into the top of the receiver, with the bolt locked open.(The bolt will automatically remain open after the last shot is fired, ejecting the now empty clip.) Once seated into the receiver, the operating handle is pulled slightly back to release the lock mechanism,then released, allowing the bolt to move forward,stripping a round from the clip and pushing it into the chamber. The weapon is now ready to fire.

Grot
04-23-2008, 04:19 PM
I have seen in the movie battleground and band of brothers the M1 was load with a clip and the blot had to be push forward before firing is this how there were fired.?

The operating rod handle might need a push if the rifle is dirty or if some of the parts are worn. The way it is supposed to work is you insert the clip until it locks into place. As you remove downward pressure from the clip the bolt should release and move forward, chambering the first round. I have three Garands. Two work correctly, the third one needs a slap to the op rod as soon as it gets slightly dirty. The clips can also cause this problem.

GliderInfantry
04-23-2008, 09:11 PM
yes but i have seen some times where the blot was push forward was this required

GliderInfantry
04-23-2008, 09:13 PM
In the movie Battleground which was about the battle of the bulge squad leaders were seen telling to check the blots was this true or made up ?

Grot
04-23-2008, 09:47 PM
yes but i have seen some times where the blot was push forward was this required

It is only required when the rifle is worn or dirty. I would expect it to get dirty during a battle, so yes, it was most likely required.




In the movie Battleground which was about the battle of the bulge squad leaders were seen telling to check the blots was this true or made up ?

Check the bolts for what? I haven't seen the film. Maybe to make sure the rifle wasn't frozen?

Grot
04-23-2008, 09:58 PM
Here are two Youtube videos showing a properly functioning and lubricated Garand being loaded:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQkZbYPc94M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYa71_NaV7U

R Leonard
04-24-2008, 10:33 PM
Grot, your descriptions are the way I remember the rifle and I carried one for two years.

The slight pull back on the operating rod was not for the M-1, it was for the M-14 and, since the 14 was/is fed from a bottom loaded magazine, was only done as a part of the formal inspection routine . . . inspector hands back the rifle, you snatch it out of his hands, come to port arms, give the operating rod a pull back and release. The bolt slams home and you execute order arms.

With the M-1, after snatching back the rifle, from the port arms position you reach up and push down the guide with your right thumb and that releases the bolt and you execute order arms. This little move of sticking your thumb in to release the guide is where the infamous "M-1 thumb" occurs if you are a little slow or clumsy. Wearing gloves can also pose a problem and takes a little practice, I've seen guys marching off from formal inspections with gloves hanging out of the receiver, flapping in the breeze; sure to garner one a goodly share of demerits, not to mention ruining a perfectly good right hand glove.

Rich

GliderInfantry
04-27-2008, 11:57 AM
during the battle of the bulge did the m1 grand the blot freeze up because of the winter temp. and this might be why they had to check them.

R Leonard
04-27-2008, 10:21 PM
Think that one through for a minute . . . here you are in a combat situation. The bad guys are out there and could appear at any moment. If you don't already have a round loaded and locked in the chamber, what kind of dummy are you? No those guys' weapons were loaded and because they were loaded there is/was no reason to "check" a bolt. I can assure you that the gas recoil from firing your first round will be more than sufficient to open the action on the weapon and after that it is all automatic . . . bolt goes back, the guide is depressed because you still have a clip with round in the weapon, so the bolt does not lock back, it just slides forward like it should, picks up a round and you're back in battery.
Can a weapon freeze? Oh sure, if you let it get wet and expose it to cold temperatures, but if it's already loaded, it is not a problem. We were taught to care for our weapons so such uncertainties did rear their heads. Don't want to count the times I woke up in my cozy poncho liner, or when colder in a sleeping bag, with my arms wrapped around . . . my rifle.
If you're seeing this stuff in a movie, then
(1) from a technical standpoint, if the actors are running blanks through an M-1, without a properly installed blank adaptor on the muzzle or a special adaptor barrel, they will indeed find themselves working the bolt as a blank round does not have the capabilty to provide the gas necessary for the recoil action. Just as a bullet traps enough gas in the collector to operate the recoil, so does a blank adaptor. If the adaptor is not right, then you end up operating the bolt by hand, reaching up and pulling it back to eject the spent round and releasing to pick up a new one from the clip.
(2) Entertainment type movies are a really bad place to learn the operation of a weapon. Writers have a tendency to seize on the single mention of a single incident and present that as a common ocurrence.

Rich

HAWKEYE
04-28-2008, 08:35 AM
During the Battle of the Bulge there were many instances of the bolts (not blots) freezing if they had too much grease on them or if the rifle was taken inside and the ice on it melted and then refroze when taken back outside. Once word of this got around the Sgts would have their men check and fix any that were frozen shut. The firing of the weapon did not always work to free the bolt from this condition. There are several 1st hand references of soldiers in combat in the Bulge peeing on the bolt to free it.


We didn’t have long to wait when the order came to move out at the German positions. But first we had to make sure out rifles were in working order and not frozen. The bolt on my rifle was hard to pull back but I managed to get it working. The guy next to me couldn’t get his to move. so I told him to put the rifle butt on the ground and I took my rifle butt and banged down on the bolt to free it.

We were told to get ready to attack but make sure our rifles were in working order. With the cold and the dampness, the bolt on the rifle could be frozen. I had mine under the blanket next to me so mine was in good working order.


I so remember coming in from one of the early patrols I took out and having a real problem. When we came in we had to cross through a safe lane and clear our weapons. This night was bitterly cold and it had snowed. When we started to clear our weapons we found all the bolts were frozen closed. Had we run into any Germans that night we could each have fired only one round. Even the pins on our hand grenades were frozen in and could not be readily pulled.

overlord644
04-28-2008, 06:22 PM
interesting, i've read a lot about winter warfare where the GI will continually mention moving the bolt back and forth

may i ask where u got these quotes?

Nickdfresh
04-28-2008, 08:45 PM
I have a feeling that if I had been issued an M-1, I'd of had a lot of the thumb. Ouch.

HAWKEYE
04-28-2008, 10:28 PM
If you ever get it you quickly learn you never want it again. It usually occured when closing the bolt without a clip during cleaning and inspections, the clip kept your thumb out of harms way for the most part.

I Googled M1 Garand, frozen bolt, Battle of the Bulge and found quite a few references, I didn't think I needed to use them all.

Cpt_Prahl
05-15-2009, 12:02 PM
I had a mint condition 1943 garand fail on me bigtime a failure you would never want to happen in the field the end of the new 65 year old Garands op rod poped off! even the armorer was suprised and amazed as this type of failure is extremly rare! Oh wellit's being gone over bigtime for free too =) hope to have it shipped here this year! I'm In Europe but Hail from the woods of Vermont.

soggydaze
09-20-2009, 01:14 AM
The M1 rifle was designed so that when the clip was pushed (with the thumb) all the way down into the magazine, the breachbolt would release and the bolt would spring forward, chambering the top cartridge in the clip. If the bolt did not release properly, you can slap the rear of the handle on the operating rod, which usually solves the problem. I am not sure this can be called a malfunction, as I once saw a film shot at the Springfield Armory that featured John Garand himself showing off the functioning of a brand new M1 rifle, and he had to slap the operating rod handle to get the bolt to spring forward, and he didn't even bat an eye about it.

Deaf Smith
09-21-2009, 06:42 PM
Actually, unless you want 'Garand thumb', I'd prefer one have to slap the op rod handle to get it to release.

Deaf

forager
09-28-2009, 02:10 AM
The bolt does not release and go forward upon mere insertion of the clip.

It is still caught and pulling it back slightly or sometimes slapping the stock releases it.

I have a Garand I've owned for 50 years.
You have to be pretty clumsy or not paying attention to actually get a M1 thumb.

Technically they only happen when recovery during "inspection arms."

Don't take movies too seriously.

Deaf Smith
09-28-2009, 08:06 PM
The bolt does not release and go forward upon mere insertion of the clip.

It is still caught and pulling it back slightly or sometimes slapping the stock releases it.

I have a Garand I've owned for 50 years.
You have to be pretty clumsy or not paying attention to actually get a M1 thumb.

Technically they only happen when recovery during "inspection arms."

Don't take movies too seriously.

He's right. But uh... I once got M1 thumb!

You can slap the bolt handle and it will run forward, or just pull back a bit on it. I still wish they had just made a 10 round detachable box mag. It would have been simpler to make and it's not like the idea wasn't known at that time! But for the life if me using the method the Carcano used is not a good method! After all, we did have the BAR to give us an example.

Oh, well, we won anyway and it was still the best out there in general use.

Deaf

The Historian
10-10-2009, 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by Deaf Smith View Post
I still wish they had just made a 10 round detachable box mag. It would have been simpler to make and it's not like the idea wasn't known at that time! But for the life if me using the method the Carcano used is not a good method! After all, we did have the BAR to give us an example.

There were a lot of M1's modified with 10- and 20-round magazines because the 8-round clip didn't last very long in combat; the legacy continued with the M-14 of 1957. Not sure why Garand didn't conceive of a detachable magazine for his rifle--the SMLE introduced the idea in the 1890's

nstoolman1
10-11-2009, 07:54 PM
The bolt does not release and go forward upon mere insertion of the clip.

I own a Garand and it does release upon insertion of a clip. Mine also does not need to be slapped. If you have a good tilt test without any rubbing or interference, and you clips are loaded properly it should function properly.

tankgeezer
12-07-2009, 09:42 PM
Keep the butt tight to the shoulder, then no more bruising.

flamethrowerguy
12-08-2009, 04:11 AM
On D-Day german soldiers ran to kill the americans when they heard "PING".

Really? What did they do on D-Day+1?

Rising Sun*
12-08-2009, 06:08 AM
Really? What did they do on D-Day+1?

The Germans had been largely defeated by then due to America's appearance on the Western Front the day before, but a few valiant German soldiers with very acute hearing charged through the beachhead and drowned trying to reach the Allied ships giving out sonar pings somewhere around the Bay of Biscay.

When news of this reached Admiral Doenitz he contemplated suicide as he realised that he might not have lost the submarine war if he had crewed submarines with soldiers with ears like Volkswagen doors instead of sailors who took up less room.

Rising Sun*
12-08-2009, 06:16 AM
On D-Day german soldiers ran to kill the americans when they heard "PING".

Why would they leave prepared defensive positions to charge someone who could reload quickly and catch them on open ground?


When I shot a M1 garand I had a broose on my arm for a month.

You're lucky the bullet didn't go into your arm.

You're supposed to point the muzzle away from you. :D

Nickdfresh
12-08-2009, 08:48 AM
...

When I shot a M1 garand I had a broose on my arm for a month.


Causing brain damage, apparently... :)

The Historian
12-08-2009, 10:26 AM
Excessive trauma, maybe...

The North Koreans learned the same thing about the Garand's clip making that ping as it left the chamber, but we discovered that it would make the same sound if you dropped it on the ground--so we'd trick 'em into poking their heads up to shoot at us by throwing an empty clip on the ground, while a guy was standing by with a fully-loaded rifle

Deaf Smith
12-08-2009, 07:23 PM
Excessive trauma, maybe...

The North Koreans learned the same thing about the Garand's clip making that ping as it left the chamber, but we discovered that it would make the same sound if you dropped it on the ground--so we'd trick 'em into poking their heads up to shoot at us by throwing an empty clip on the ground, while a guy was standing by with a fully-loaded rifle

Dang, that's almost like Alvin York and his Turkey Gobble to get the Germans to raise their heads.

Actually guys, go get about 5 Garand rifles and have them fire say one shot every 3 seconds in random order. Now you will find the noise generated from such a conflagration of guns will pretty much drowns out this 'ping'.

And while you are at it, have the ones listening fire some 7.92 Mausers while listening for that 'ping'. I bet it gets mighty hard to hear that 'ping' with all the ringing in their ears.

There MIGHT have been a case or two where at very close quarters a 'ping' gave away a GI and that GI didn't have a buddy with a BAR or M1 Carbine or Thompson, or even a good shovel handy.

But I doubt it.

And there really were cases where 5 shot Ariskas or Mausers ran out of ammo and GIs with Garands plugged them. Just read George John's book, "Shots Fired in Anger" about what the Garand was worth compaired to a Ariska. And the Ariska is basicly a Mauser.


Deaf

The Historian
12-08-2009, 08:06 PM
Factor in things like tank engines or artillery support shrieking overhead, and I'm surprised that most veterans didn't go deaf

Deaf Smith
12-08-2009, 08:38 PM
I have a friend who was in the Navy. He was on Destroyers. He nearly IS deaf! Those 5 inchers are loud.

I am always suprised when I see films of mortar men firing and only a few stick their fingers in their ears. And I bet quad .50s might make you dizy!


I hope the U.S. Army uses Peltor or Ridgeline ear muffs that allow normal hearing yet block out gunfire.

Deaf

Nickdfresh
12-09-2009, 09:04 AM
I merged this thread with another, older thread from the archives as I see a lot of the same stuff being discussed here. Especially the annoying History/Military Channel fodder about the infamous "I'm empty, come and shoot me" M1-"clang." I would think that this has to be a bit of a legend, that is there's something to it--but yet I'd find it hard to believe that a German soldier is going to be listening for the clang of a recently emptied M1 over the deafening roar of massed small arms fire, and possibly more. And unless a soldier, perhaps a paratroop, became isolated, I'm pretty sure other American soldiers would be there to Tommy-gun any such soldier stupid enough to be chasing clangs...

The Historian
12-09-2009, 09:40 AM
I am always suprised when I see films of mortar men firing and only a few stick their fingers in their ears. And I bet quad .50s might make you dizy!


I hope the U.S. Army uses Peltor or Ridgeline ear muffs that allow normal hearing yet block out gunfire.


Firing a .50 isn't so bad when you're behind it, with earplugs inserted. Standing next to it is probably fun--the gun kicks up a dust cloud in front of it!

Deaf Smith
12-09-2009, 08:51 PM
Black Hawk Down had a real good scene where they fired M249 and M240s and one was deafened.

I remember in the show, 'Red Dawn' where the good guys had this T70 tank they were trying to disable (I think it was a T70) and when it fired it's 120mm, it nearly blew then off the hill with the muzzle blast. Rather realistic I'd say!

And in 'True Lies' where the terrorist fired a Stinger at the jets, from inside the van, and blew one of their own out the back (it was realistic, sort of..)

And remember when Dirty Harry grabbed his partner out from behind a LAW in 'The Enforcer' before she got fried (Tye Daily I think her name was.) That was ok to.

And my favorite, in 'Rambo II', where Sly fires a LAW through the helocopters plexiglass and didn't even harm a hair on the ex-POWS in the back. I sure hope some terrorist watch that one and later tries that stunt.

But back to the ping, no except for a possible one-on-many encounter with the Garand guy being the 'one', I can't see this happening, and even then, the Garand shooter can still reload pretty fast if the clip is on his harness or sling.

Deaf

The Historian
12-10-2009, 01:14 AM
Good stuff there. The tanks in Red Dawn were T-72's, which were the SU's MBT for the 70's and early 80's-although by the time the war took place, the Soviets were also fielding the T-80 (BTW, Red Dawn is a movie, not a show)

As for one guy with a garand against many, it might have happened on D-Day when we had paratroops scattered all across the battlefield, but even then I think it would be rare for one guy to not run into at least somebody else out there. Probably one of the things Hollywood jumped on for drama or whatnot

bltjr1951
12-11-2009, 12:44 PM
My Great-uncle was on Iwo. He told my Dad that the "tommy gun" was great, till it jammed, then he went back to the M1 Garand. My Dad said that was just about the only thing my Great-uncle said about the war. He never told me about it, I didn't know he was on Iwo till last year.

The Historian
12-11-2009, 12:49 PM
Cool. My grandfather was in France in 44/45. He was artillery, playing with 155's--talk about noise!

bltjr1951
12-16-2009, 04:05 PM
infamous "I'm empty, come and shoot me" M1-"clang." I would think that this has to be a bit of a legend, that is there's something to it--

I know I've read somewhere about GIs, after firing one round, using empty en-bloc clips to bring out Japs hiding at night. Japs would rush foxhole after hearing clip "ping". Then GI would shoot them.

Deaf Smith
12-16-2009, 09:07 PM
I know I've read somewhere about GIs, after firing one round, using empty en-bloc clips to bring out Japs hiding at night. Japs would rush foxhole after hearing clip "ping". Then GI would shoot them.

In jugle warfare that could happen. But I bet they mostly had another GI with a tommy gun for that chore.

As John George said, in his book "Shots Fired In Anger", a Garand armed squad could slug it out with a whole platoon of Japanese and win.

He also wrote about when a bunch of Japanese charged foxholes in front of his position. He used his '03 Springfield sniper rifle to knock down to before he was empty, but the three GI's in the foxholes killed every one of the Japanese before they reached the foxholes. He said that showed him how much better the simi-auto was to the bolt gun.

Deaf

Munchausen
12-17-2009, 09:12 AM
Considering that in a typical section, there was a possibility of facing up to five different weapons: M1, M1 carbine, Colt .45, BAR and the Thompson, the practice of listening for that distinctive ping seems rather hazardous outside of a classic two man duel. Even if the Americans confined themselves to using the rifle, they'd have to be firing in volley ala the British square in order to provoke a savvy enemy into a charge. And that ignores bayonets and grenades. No, it's far better to utilize bounding overwatch, suppressive fire and pay attention to one's own marksmanship and cover than to wait for some perceived shortcoming of the enemy's weapon system.

Nickdfresh
12-17-2009, 12:31 PM
Even during the early battles on Guadalcanal, the Japanese realized that against US Marines still carrying mostly pre-War vintage weapons such as the Springfield .30-06, water cooled Brownings, and BARs--they had a significant disadvantage in firepower both in terms of "organic firepower" (infantry weapons) as-well-as-in mortars, artillery, and command and control. The IJA quickly began to realize that offensive operations against the Western Allies was becoming almost tactically impossible by 1943 as their adversaries gained experience and newer weapons such as the M1 Garands. One would think Japan, knowing they were in store for a lot of jungle fighting, would have focused more on submachine-guns; I think recall hearing that Japan produced less submachine-guns in the whole War than the US did in a little over a month at the height of production...

Deaf Smith
12-17-2009, 10:06 PM
I think the Japanese had a few Bergman subguns and they manufactured some copies in 8mm (and that's not much of a round) plus the gun weighed 8 pounds! And it was NOT easy to manufacture!

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/jp_8mm/index.html

I doubt there was any TOE specs for subguns in their army.

Deaf

The Historian
12-18-2009, 01:13 AM
It definitely helped that we blew up most of their factories from 42 to the end...

Deaf Smith
12-18-2009, 08:53 PM
That and thankfully their quality control, especially ammo, was poor.

George John, in his book, "Shots Fired in Anger" spoke of the poor crimping on the bullets, lack of moisture seal of the ammo crates, and well even some of the slugs wiggled in the cartridge cases (I've seen Italian ammo do the same, wonder if they used the same crimp machinery.)

He said GI ammo just worked and worked. Never saw a misfire.

And we all know when you have your weapon fail on you, you lose confidence, and that confidence is reflected in battle performance.

Yes the Japanese fought hard and cruelly, but our GIs knew they were ahead in many ways.

Deaf

Kilroy
03-20-2014, 01:48 PM
It can easily be said the easiest to spotted weapon from the Second World war. I want to say the most massed produce weapon of the world. I hope you guys dont mind me bringing this thread back to life....

AikeUSA
03-21-2014, 11:46 AM
I think we won but the M1 Garand is a very nice weapon.

Kilroy
03-21-2014, 12:09 PM
I think we won but the M1 Garand is a very nice weapon.

It was indeed. It was a excellent weapon but it can never be a sweet as the 1903 Springfield

AikeUSA
03-21-2014, 12:28 PM
The 1903 is only a nice sniper. I don't like the normal sight it's only a stripe.

Kilroy
03-21-2014, 12:30 PM
well It was effective for the first months of the war and it did work. It was reliable for sure thought

Nickdfresh
03-22-2014, 07:57 AM
It was indeed. It was a excellent weapon but it can never be a sweet as the 1903 Springfield

Funny, a lot of marines on Guadalcanal ditched their Springfields if they were able to acquire a Garand...

Kilroy
03-23-2014, 10:16 AM
Funny, a lot of marines on Guadalcanal ditched their Springfields if they were able to acquire a Garand...

But not all B). Sure the m1 grand was much more effective but there were a decent amount who enjoyed the Springfield

Tom Nelson
04-03-2014, 03:57 AM
At that time I had quite the gun collection. A bunch of the WW2 small arms. I had the M-1, the .30 carbine, 1903 A-3 Springfield, .303 Lee Enfield, K-98 Mauser, and the .45 Colt auto Pistol. Had a house fire and they all burnt up!

that sucks I have the garand the carbine the mosin nagant, and a 1911A1 pistol would hate to lose any

Wittmann
07-11-2014, 10:00 PM
I merged this thread with another, older thread from the archives as I see a lot of the same stuff being discussed here. Especially the annoying History/Military Channel fodder about the infamous "I'm empty, come and shoot me" M1-"clang." I would think that this has to be a bit of a legend, that is there's something to it--but yet I'd find it hard to believe that a German soldier is going to be listening for the clang of a recently emptied M1 over the deafening roar of massed small arms fire, and possibly more. And unless a soldier, perhaps a paratroop, became isolated, I'm pretty sure other American soldiers would be there to Tommy-gun any such soldier stupid enough to be chasing clangs...

I'll agree Nick on this issue.

I've talked to 4 family members that served using the M1 Garand and none of them had ever heard of the empty clip noise issue until I asked them about it. My Grandfather and Great Uncle served during WW2 Europe, Uncle during Korea and my Father served between Korea and Vietnam. The movies have the muzzle sound muted and the ping sound very exaggerated.


Total agreement with Forager on an earlier post in this thread:

Recently my Father and Uncle were talking about what they called "GI Thumb", which I assume is the same as M1 Thumb, my Uncle only saw it happen during cleaning and once during an inspection when the rifle was thrust back into a soldiers chest awkwardly by the inspector causing the soldier to grasp the rifle in the wrong area thus inducing the GI Thumb. To the soldiers credit he didn't flinch or cry out, but my Uncle said you couldn't count the tears after it was over. I'll admit that I received GI Thumb while messing around with cheap Chinese repo clips that weren't properly sized to fit the rifle, I junked those and kept USGI without any problems with a 1943 rifle.

As far as M1's having problems in winter, I've always heard that it was the M1 Carbine not the M1 Garand in Korea during very sub below zero temps. Some of that may have been due to warm metal going out into -20 plus degrees producing condensation then freezing, or just the damn cold period. Some M1 Garands may have suffered the same condition. There are well documented reports that during the Battle of Chosin Reservoir that several M1 Garands wooden hand guards caught on fire during the sustained combat in -35 degrees, could be why the M14 has a metal upper hand guard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chosin_Reservoir

My Great Uncle who served with the 134th Infantry Division during WW2 Europe felt extremely confident with the M1 and said in his experience the ping sound wasn't that audible in midst of a fire fight for someone to hear 60 to 80 yards away, in which many of his engagements occurred. My Great Uncle arrived 26 days or so after DDAY at Omaha Beach and pushed into France fighting thru the hedgerows, villages and small towns in France. During those engagements you had mortar or artillery fire going off along with the small arms fire from both sides which is extremely loud.

http://www.coulthart.com/134/



The M1 was and is a very good semiautomatic rifle, the other Infantry rifles are more than well worth noting such as the Lee Enfield, K98K, Mosin Nagant, Springfield 03 or 03A3, early Ariska rifles. I own at least one example of each and prefer the M1 Garand.

Kilroy
07-22-2014, 02:59 AM
though I really wonder what would have happened if the army used the Johnson m1941 instead of the M1 Grand.

Nickdfresh
07-22-2014, 12:59 PM
I'm not sure how conclusive one could be regarding the extended use of the Johnson M1941, but you might be able to get some indications of the Special Service Force's use of it as well as opinions of OSS men that carried them...

pdf27
07-22-2014, 01:39 PM
My Great Uncle who served with the 134th Infantry Division during WW2 Europe felt extremely confident with the M1 and said in his experience the ping sound wasn't that audible in midst of a fire fight for someone to hear 60 to 80 yards away, in which many of his engagements occurred. My Great Uncle arrived 26 days or so after DDAY at Omaha Beach and pushed into France fighting thru the hedgerows, villages and small towns in France. During those engagements you had mortar or artillery fire going off along with the small arms fire from both sides which is extremely loud.
More to the point, certainly a few years ago I was always taught to yell "MAGAZINE" at the top of my voice when reloading so that the other guys in my section would pick up the rate of fire while I reloaded. If the ping noise of an empty clip were really that dangerous, there's no way they would have taught us to yell that we're out of ammunition!

tankgeezer
07-22-2014, 06:31 PM
The Johnson infantry rifle was a bit more subject to damage than the Garand, and was longer in reloading. The Johnson was loaded using two stripper clips,one after the other to load the rotary magazine. This required more time to complete than the 8 rd En Block clip of the Garand. There was a similar problem with the U.S. Krag-Jorgenson Rifle which used a loose ammo side loading mechanism that was time consuming. This flaw became apparent when confronted by the Mauser action Rifles which used the ordinary stripper clip.
The design of the Johnson may have been better thought out than the Garand, but that did not make it better for the conditions it would find itself being used in. I was a big fan of the Johnson light machine gun, but not the infantry rifle.

Kilroy
08-13-2014, 09:47 AM
Aw okay then that makes a little more sense then what I read about it in the books.

Kilroy
09-18-2014, 10:14 AM
I believe a little while ago I remember dissembling a M1 and boy o. Every complex rifle breaking it down and cleaning it. After assemble it again 2 hours went by (for cleaning one that was really dirty for the first time). Then I went on to cleaning the Thompson submachine gun and that was really easy (since it only took about 30 mins with it 4 pieces to clean, with the version that was available to use.). what a difference!

forager
10-07-2014, 04:20 PM
They were simply a miracle of design, quality, and effectiveness and reliability.

They were built to withstand use and abuse.
Take apart a SVT or a K 43 or some others-flimsy, easily broken parts that took extra effort to reassemble or service.

The Garand was simple and easily maintained. It could go a long ways between cleaning if necessary.
Guys like
FALs and FN 49s, but I think the Garand was a stroke of genius that set the bar for a long time.

I have owned all of them and carried a Garand sniper for a short while in VN, but it was impractical in my are which was heavily foliated.