PDA

View Full Version : T34/76 (with German markings) pulled from Estonian Lake



Nickdfresh
01-15-2007, 05:20 PM
Here's some pics I received in an email...


Here's the full story:

14 September 2000, a Komatsu D375A-2 pulled an abandoned tank from its archival tomb under the bottom of a lake near Johvi, Estonia. The Soviet-built T34/76A tank had been resting at the bottom of the lake for 56 years. According to its specifications, it's a 27-tonne machine with a top speed of 53km/h.
From February to September 1944, heavy battles were fought in the narrow, 50 km-wide, Narva front in the north-eastern part of Estonia. Over 100,000 men were killed and 300,000 men were wounded there. During battles in the summer of 1944, the tank was captured from the Soviet army and used by the German army. (This is the reason that there are German markings painted on the tank's exterior.) On 19 September 1944, German troops began an organized retreat along the Narva front. It is suspected that the tank was then purposefully driven into the lake, abandoning it when its captors left the area.
At that time, a local boy walking by the lake Kurtna Matasjarv noticed tank tracks leading into the lake, but not coming out anywhere. For two months he saw air bubbles emerging from the lake. This gave him reason to believe that there must be an armored vehicle at the lake's bottom. A few years ago, he told the story to the leader of the local war history club 'Otsing'. Together with other club members, Mr. Igor Shedunov initiated diving expeditions to the bottom of the lake about a year ago. At the depth of 7 metres they discovered the tank resting under a 3-metre layer of peat.
Enthusiasts from the club, under Mr Shedunov's leadership, decided to pull the tank out. In September 2000 they turned to Mr Aleksander Borovkovthe, manager of the Narva open pit of the stock company AS Eesti Polevkivi, to rent the company's Komatsu D375A-2 bulldozer. Currently used at the pit, the Komatsu dozer was manufactured in 1995, and has 19,000 operating hours without major repairs.
The pulling operation began at 09:00 and was concluded at 15:00, with several technical breaks. The weight of the tank, combined with the travel incline, made a pulling operation that required significant muscle. The D375A-2 handled the operation with power and style. The weight of the fully armed tank was around 30 tons, so the active force required to retrieve it was similar. A main requirement for the 68-tonne dozer was to have enough weight to prevent shoe-slip while moving up the hill.
After the tank surfaced, it turned out to be a trophy tank, that had been captured by the German army in the course of the battle at Sinimaed (Blue Hills) about six weeks before it was sunk in the lake. Altogether, 116 shells were found on board. Remarkably, the tank was in good condition, with no rust, and all systems (except the engine) in working condition. This is a very rare machine, especially considering that it fought both on the Russian and the German sides. Plans are under way to fully restore the tank. It will be displayed at a war history museum, that will be founded at the Gorodenko village on the left bank of the River Narv.

Cont'd

Nickdfresh
01-15-2007, 05:23 PM
Page two...

Nickdfresh
01-15-2007, 05:24 PM
Page three...

Nickdfresh
01-15-2007, 05:26 PM
Page four, in all her glory:

Nickdfresh
01-15-2007, 05:27 PM
Final page, looks great for being in a damn lake for 56-years...

Panzerknacker
01-15-2007, 05:44 PM
That T-34 looks new, I saw that in other forum, they started the diesel engine after a few reparations... :cool: quite amazing and a proof of the sturdinnes of this design.

Chevan
01-18-2007, 11:43 PM
Thenk's mate for the thread. Its really amazing. It's very good conditions for the long saving of vechicles under layer of peat whithout oxugen and other atmosphere's damaged factors.

..Plans are under way to fully restore the tank. It will be displayed at a war history museum, that will be founded at the Gorodenko village on the left bank of the River Narv
Bet they will established this T-34 with german svastica as symbolic monument of "fight for freedom with Waffen SS". There is a very popular event in Estonia today.

Cheers.

Panzerknacker
01-28-2007, 05:01 PM
Video of this T-34.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhK1eXDAfgQ

cooke24
03-28-2007, 11:40 PM
One day i would like to go to the kubinka tank museum to check out the maus and other tanks.

AllHailCesar
03-29-2007, 05:07 PM
Where is the Kubinka museum?
A few years ago I went to the a museum (can't remember the name) near Palm Springs California. It was Gen. Pattons desert warfare training center during the war. Nice local museum....but not world class, as far as museums go.

Egorka
03-30-2007, 02:19 AM
Where is the Kubinka museum?
A few years ago I went to the a museum (can't remember the name) near Palm Springs California. It was Gen. Pattons desert warfare training center during the war. Nice local museum....but not world class, as far as museums go.

Hi,

YOu know, Google and Wiki are two great tools of the Internet. And something hints me you have access to Internet... but I can not be sure...

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/

.

Nickdfresh
03-30-2007, 10:38 PM
Hi,

YOu know, Google and Wiki are two great tools of the Internet. And something hints me you have access to Internet... but I can not be sure...

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/

.


It's beautiful man! I must go there!!

FW-190 Pilot
03-31-2007, 03:39 AM
did the Germans ever think they would be better off without the marking? wouldnt it be a great tool to spy on your enemy? Or organize some sort of surprise attack.

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-31-2007, 08:11 AM
did the Germans ever think they would be better off without the marking? wouldnt it be a great tool to spy on your enemy? Or organize some sort of surprise attack.

It would, but it would suck being blown up by your own guys on accident :neutral:

FW-190 Pilot
03-31-2007, 12:24 PM
It would, but it would suck being blown up by your own guys on accident :neutral:
in the battle of the bulge, captured american tanks were used in the invasion though.

Wolfgang Von Gottberg
03-31-2007, 03:22 PM
in the battle of the bulge, captured american tanks were used in the invasion though.

Yes, but they most likely had marking identification on them, right?

I'm not saying your incorrect, but it is totally possible that there were captured enemy tanks put into the field without proper markings. Things got desperate sometimes... :roll:

Panzerknacker
04-01-2007, 03:57 PM
Mostly of the times the german T-34 carried really big balkenkreus or even more swastikas wich were not used in the Army vehicles but obviously will work as a "germanity" symbol.

Despite that more than one fell to an nervious antitank gunner.

Chevan
04-02-2007, 12:56 AM
Mostly of the times the german T-34 carried really big balkenkreus or even more swastikas wich were not used in the Army vehicles but obvoiusly will work as a "germanity" symbol.

Despite that more than one fell to an nervious antitank gunner.
That's right mate.
There were a lot of cases in the WW2 when the antitank artillery hited the even OWN vechicles.
So you must be a very bold german tanker to drive the T-34 in the combat area.;)

AllHailCesar
04-06-2007, 01:59 AM
Hi,

YOu know, Google and Wiki are two great tools of the Internet. And something hints me you have access to Internet... but I can not be sure...

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/

.

Thanks for the link! Very interesting!

Panzerknacker
04-06-2007, 07:12 PM
That's right mate.
There were a lot of cases in the WW2 when the antitank artillery hited the even OWN vechicles.
So you must be a very bold german tanker to drive the T-34 in the combat area.;)

Or simply as desperate one, if your panzer III sucks, your Pz IV is too lightly armored and your panzer II dont kill a russian fly.

The T-34/76 was the best tank in the world in 1941-1942, simply as that.

HAWKEYE
01-17-2009, 09:13 PM
in the battle of the bulge, captured american tanks were used in the invasion though.

They rigged up Panthers to look like M10's

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt07/pics/panther-fake-m10-ardennes-f2.jpg

Notice 5th Armored markings:
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt07/pics/panther-fake-m10-ardennes-f3.jpg


"Because the false vehicle numbers of the tanks knocked out were B-4, B-5, B-7, and B-10, investigators concluded that at least ten similarly disguised tanks might have been in action.

Inside the one tank which was not blown up too badly to be inspected were found items of U.S. clothing such as a helmet, overcoat, and leggings. To heighten the deception, U.S. stars were painted on both sides and also on the top of the turret, the entire tank was painted O.D., and U.S. unit markings were painted on the false bow and rear."

Trap77
06-29-2009, 09:34 PM
Can you be shot as a spy for 'wearing' and enemy tank?

(I would shoot the dude)

There are reports that in early '42 the Germans put several captured T-34's on a train headed to the German armaments development center with the message, "give us this".

It would have been interesting if the Germans had copied most of the T-34's design and rushed it into production by mid '42. There is an historical precident for this, in WWI both the Eastern and Western armies used the same machine gun, the Maxim.

Nickdfresh
06-30-2009, 06:29 AM
Can you be shot as a spy for 'wearing' and enemy tank?

(I would shoot the dude)

There was a good chance they were executed, if they survived on the battlefield and actually made it to a POW camp...


There are reports that in early '42 the Germans put several captured T-34's on a train headed to the German armaments development center with the message, "give us this".

It would have been interesting if the Germans had copied most of the T-34's design and rushed it into production by mid '42. There is an historical precident for this, in WWI both the Eastern and Western armies used the same machine gun, the Maxim.


If you look in the German panzer threads, you'll find the Germans did indeed make a virtual copy of the T-34. But Teutonic engineering pride and some of the lessor sophistication of the features of the T-34 caused them to create the Panther instead, which is basically a copy of the T-34s spec's with an improvement in technical sophistication somewhat negated by problems in reliability...

Trap77
06-30-2009, 07:53 PM
Yes, I know the story of the Panther, its troubles and limited production numbers.

The T-34 was the Chevy as the Panther was the BMW, and the Chevy won based on the sheer number of them.

Again, I am playing 'what if', as in what if the Germans had been able to copy the T34 and produce them in numbers close to that of the Russians in '42.