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Tophe
12-13-2006, 11:10 PM
Hello,
I am a newcomer having been directed to you by Google, with a requirement to register/log in to access the page
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3093&page=29
My goal was to read every discussion about the weird picture
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6606/nmsinsitei5tt.png
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6606/nmsinsitei5tt.png
of a weird TWIN-FUSELAGE Japanese warplane with in-line engines. Was it a what-if fake or a true industrial project?

Alas, even after registration, and letting one day pass, there is still no access to this page after I log in successfully. What to do? Can somebody tell me more about this plane?
Thanks.

Panzerknacker
12-14-2006, 09:05 AM
I think that it was a paper projekt only, seems a desing for a twin aircrafts based on Nakajima Ki-84.

Tophe
12-15-2006, 11:42 PM
I know pretty well that this twin-fuselage plane has never been built, nor its manufacture even started.
My question was rather to depart 2 hypothesis:
A- industry paper project 1944-45 ("real project")
B- dreamer paper project 2005 ("what-if fantasy" dreaming of 1944-45)

A twin Ki-84 would have normally radial engines and a low tailplane, this drawing is much different (but the source may be the Ki-84, I agree, it is just "not obvious" at first glance).

Has somebody access to the thread 3093 or is it closed for everybody, not just me?
Thanks.

Panzerknacker
12-16-2006, 09:05 AM
I cannot found the topic but I found the source of the pic:
:D
Here:

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki14.html


Those are some drawings of a very imaginative japanese mind, some insteresting btw. Not real any of this.

Tophe
12-16-2006, 12:37 PM
Thanks a lot for this link/direction. So this is confirmed as a what-if fantasy, nicely imagined nowadays...
Thanks again.

Panzerknacker
12-17-2006, 02:26 PM
Nicely imagined indeed, check this desings.

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/14ki/ki77ii2.jpg



http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/18ki/img/mansei.jpg



http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/18ki/d5k_1.jpg



http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/13ki/ki02a08.jpg

Tophe
12-17-2006, 10:26 PM
Great ones! That is while I prefer what-if imagination to (limited) History... while I respect the ones requiring the Real label. These are just 2 different ways.

Panzerknacker
12-19-2006, 07:24 PM
I agree with you, in this case this site show 2 things

a) the japanese are crazy people.

b) they sure know how to make nice drawing with CAD.

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki13.html

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki15.html

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki16.html

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki17.html

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki18.html

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki19.html

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki20.html

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki21.html

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki22.html

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki23.html


They even have some "germans" designs like this one.

http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/17ki/Ar141.png

Flammpanzer
04-07-2007, 08:33 AM
http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://samoloty.webd.pl/amerykanskie/nap82d.jpg&imgrefurl=http://samoloty.webd.pl/amerykanskie/p82.htm&h=200&w=320&sz=13&hl=de&start=15&tbnid=6xWMHdCzFl-ixM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3D82%2Btwin%2Bmustang%2B%26gb

looks pretty much like the us F82 twin mustang to me.

jens

Twitch1
04-17-2007, 01:16 PM
The US, Britain, Russia, Germany and Japan all had ongoing projects throughout the war. Some reached fruition and some didn't. Most were serious and projected as viable future ventures.

There were late-war aircraft of theis ilk like the Tachikawa Ki 94, the Mitsubishi Ki 83 or the Nakajima Ki 87 that represented the heavy fighter thinking of the era. More existed in various stages of completion including blueprints only.

The Ki 73 and Ki 78 died due to the lack of Ha 40 V-12s. They were real projects. The Kawanishi J6K1 Jinpu was coming along with the Mansyu Ki 98 heavy ground attack fighter. The J4M1 Senden was another. The Rikugun Ki 93 heavy interceptor was being tested. The Yokosuka R2Y Keiun flew under prop power as a test bed for a later jet design, the R2Y2. And the very real J8N1 Mitsubishi jet was a step toward the Ki 201 Karyu being assembles in caves at the end of the war capable of 530 MPH armed with 30 mm cannon.

Simply because the Allies won the war and completed planes in post-war times that were on the drawing board or conceived during the war doesn't mean they were not real projects, does it? The Allies simply had the luxury of the victory to continue to develop them into actual planes.

The Axis defeat has direct bearing on the fact that their blueprints and mock-ups had no chance of seeing completion. It doesen't automatically perclude that all their designs in various stages were not viable.

The above image is not an unreasonable design in concept or in aerodynamics. The fact that is is illustrated with V-12s would preclude its completion in that form simply because the Ha 40 derivitaves of the Daimler Benz DB 601A were in very short supply. This is how the superb Ki 100 came into existance, from the Ki 61 airframes using Mitsubishi radials. There is no reason to presume that the above design would not have been developed given time and replacing the V-12 with radials.

Looking at initial concept illustrations is a bankrupt perspective on deciding whether that concept would or wouldn't work. EVERY aircraft once completed has gone through many phases of modification from initial concept to wind tunnel models to mock-ups through to several flight tested prototypes each evolving as they were test-flown.

Panzerknacker
10-23-2007, 07:04 PM
Interesting documentry showing several jap X-planes.

http://stage6.divx.com/History---World-War-II/video/1632297/Secret-Japanese-Aircraft-of-WWII

kallinikosdrama1992
10-27-2007, 08:00 AM
i know nothing about this plane but it reminds me the twin engine mustang fighter

Panzerknacker
10-27-2007, 05:08 PM
The airplane had been already identified as a fake, end of that history.

Major Walter Schmidt
01-09-2008, 12:30 AM
I know a japanese website that has lots of funny hypothetical stuff like that. Its probably from something like the before mentioned.

ColonelCupcake
03-25-2009, 06:38 AM
Hi guys,

Just a quick question, the design at the top, i know its only a what-if but do you tihnk that with the technicological advances in the last couple of decades that Landlord Insurance Online (http://www.uklandlordbuildinginsurance.co.uk/) could ever become a reailty at all??

P.s. thanks for the link to the program on the warcraft of world war 2 i will be sure to watch that as soon as i get a moment :)

Panzerknacker
08-22-2009, 10:00 AM
Just a quick question, the design at the top, i know its only a what-if but do you tihnk that with the technicological advances in the last couple of decades that this could ever become a reailty at all??


Are you talking about the P-38 like or the one with canards ? in any case I dont see why not.

Deaf Smith
08-22-2009, 10:02 PM
I am not shocked the Japanese were designing a twin-boomed fighter that looked quite a bit like a P-38. Germany had a twin-boomed plane to.

Only the U.S., with its resources, actually made it work and become a top aircraft. Bit weird looking but a sound idea.

The P-38, was realistically the only truly successful twin-engine fighter during the war. Most other such aircraft had to have escorts (as Galland wrote about the ME-110) as they could not compete with single engine fighters.


Just a quick question, the design at the top, i know its only a what-if but do you tihnk that with the technicological advances in the last couple of decades that this could ever become a reailty at all??

OV-10A, hint hint.

Deaf

Panzerknacker
08-23-2009, 08:09 PM
You mean P-38 as succesful day fighter the germans produced some decent night fighters as well :rolleyes:

The Me-410 never had received a bit of respect despite being not perfect was quite good.

Deaf Smith
08-23-2009, 08:50 PM
Well the P-38 was produced as a night fighter. I don't know how successful it was, since Japan’s and Germany’s night attacks by the time the U.S. was in the war were not real spectacular.

We also produced the P-61, “Black Widow”, which also was twin boomed and it did rather well at night fighting (but I doubt a good day fighter.)

Sadly, the other countries trying to produce a twin engine (twin boom or otherwise) fighter made the mistake of adding to much equipment and personnel to the endeavor. The ME-410, like the 210, and 110, should have been a single seat fighter with thin outer wings. Same goes for the British Mosquito, and Japanese KI-45 ‘Nick’, and Soviet Pe-3.

None could survive in an environment with many enemy single seat fighters. This was repeatedly shown from the Battle of Britain on at great cost to those who tried.

BTW, take a look at the Arado- Ar E.340. Interesting twin boom design if it would have flown. Same for the FW-189 (which did fly.)

And pity we didn't steal the SAAB J 21 design. Might have made an interesting fighter with an ejection seat. And who could forget the Vultee XP-54 Swoose Goose.

But all in all, the P-38 was really the only one that was a decent fighter in the day.

Deaf

Deaf Smith
09-28-2009, 08:28 PM
It's easy to make a drawing, but hard to marshal the materials and know how to turn it into a real live weapon. There never was any serious chance Japan would have produced 99.9 percent of what's on that website.

Even Germany found out the hard way that war is time intensive. You can't afford to make a mistake when predicting what one’s own country is realistically capable of doing. And that goes double for estimating the enemy.

Deaf

royal744
12-08-2009, 06:11 PM
http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://samoloty.webd.pl/amerykanskie/nap82d.jpg&imgrefurl=http://samoloty.webd.pl/amerykanskie/p82.htm&h=200&w=320&sz=13&hl=de&start=15&tbnid=6xWMHdCzFl-ixM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3D82%2Btwin%2Bmustang%2B%26gb

looks pretty much like the us F82 twin mustang to me.

jens

Interesting. There's one of those twin fuselage Mustangs parked out here on the apron at Brooks AFB in San Antonio.