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View Full Version : The Russian "Die Hard", the Klimenti Vorozhilov tank.



Panzerknacker
12-06-2006, 07:07 PM
When the German Army knifed deeply in the Soviet border the spearhead panzer columns found a Tank wich they never heard of, the mighty KV, this AFV was the only capable of defeat the Panzer in several local actions, although they not change the course of the Barbarossa campaing it sure cause a lot of trouble, for the panzer crewman and infantry.

KV-1 has scored hits in a pz IV.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4223/kv1hitspz4xl0.jpg

Panzerknacker
12-06-2006, 07:14 PM
KVs in action

While many crews were unexperienced with the new tank, some were able to make the German to pay a heavy price for their advance. Here they are some accounts:
Extracts from Thomas Jentz's "Panzertruppen", vol. 1 (posted on the Tanker's Forum by Dr. Leo Niehorster)

6. Panzer-Division war diary, 25 June 41

"Unfortunately, the Russian 52 ton heavy tanks showed that it was almost insensitive to hits from the 10.5cm [field howitzer]. Several hits from a 15cm [field howitzer] were ineffective and bounced off. "
"... a Russian heavy tank had blocked the communications route ... An 8.8cm Flak battery was sent up by the commander to fight this tank. It was just as unseccessful as the 10.5cm battery whose fire was directed by a forward observer. In addition, an attempt by a Pionier assault troop using balled explosives failed. It was impossible to get close to the tank because of heavy machine gun fire."

3. Panzer-Division war diary, 10 Jan 42

"It is noteworthy that the Pz-III ... hit a KV tank driving along the village street at a range of about 20 meters and four times at a range of 50 meters with 5cm Pzgr 40 without observing any effect."

12. Panzer-Division war diary, 30 March 42

"... encountered a 52 ton tank and a T34. Under the covering fire from one Panzer, the other pair circled to the left and from a range of 50 to 80 meters opened fire on the enemy tanks. All three Pz-IV scored hits that showed no effect other than on the enemy morale.... the 53 ton ton tank drove off at high speed ... the T34 followed him."

More than 30 hits in the side of this KV, the tank was probably destroyed for some 88mm.

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3669/kv1hitseveraltimeskc9.jpg



The only way the Germans were able to achieve successes against the heavies in the early months was :

1. by concentrating the fire of many tanks, in some cases an entire battalion (!) at ranges of 100 meters or less, which in many cases only caused damage.
2. by maneouvering to the flanks and rear and opening fire at ranges of 50 meters or less, which in many cases again only caused immobilization.
3. by coordinated fire on the tanks of all weapons, (which destroyed or separated the enemy infantry). Infantry and pioneers would then climb up on isolated or immobilzed enemy tanks and apply bundled stick grenades to less impervious areas, such as turret overhangs, etc.
4. repeated non-damaging hits which caused the enemy crews to abandon their vehicles because of the noise and concussion.

Panzerknacker
12-06-2006, 07:22 PM
This KV-2 keep the entire 1š Panzer division pinned down between the 23 and 24 of July 1941, meanwhile it destroyed several halftracks and light AT guns with his 152 howitzer. finally was killed by 6 shots of 88mm.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8140/5hq9.jpg



http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/8753/2vn1.jpg



http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7141/3tj7.jpg

alephh
12-06-2006, 10:51 PM
Good stuff :-)

The problem with KV was that you couldn't drive on bad terrain with it - and even on the good road you have to deal with poor steering, slow movement, very poor visibility...

_

Chevan
12-06-2006, 11:44 PM
Excellent Panzerknacker.
KV-2 was not tank in strong sense - this was self-propelled howitzer. The main role of KV-2 in soviet army was to destroy the enemy fortified positions.
It was firstly tested 29 feb of 1940 in during the winter compain in the Finland. It proved its effectiveness but the active combat actions in the Finland already slow down.
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/KV/KV2_8.jpghttp://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/KV/first/u1_t3.jpg

Cheers.

Panzerknacker
12-07-2006, 05:17 PM
But with his 360š revolving turret and the provition of AP ammo it could be used as a aheavy tank without trouble, it could and it was.

http://i14.tinypic.com/4c0x7ch.jpg




The problem with KV was that you couldn't drive on bad terrain with it - and even on the good road you have to deal with poor steering, slow movement, very poor visibility...



You are correct in steering and visibility, the other i am not so sure.

Chevan
12-07-2006, 11:30 PM
But with his 360š revolving turret and the provition of AP ammo it could be used as a aheavy tank without trouble, it could and it was.
.
Sure it could be and it was, but the production of KV-2 was stopped in the 1941.


KV -2 appeared sufficiently well itself in the attacks of Finnish strengthenings in 1940, but in combat with the German troops in 1941 picture was another. The high box tower, which contains of four crew members, was so bulky, that its rapid turn occurred the very complex matter, especially with the inclination of tank. Its large mass made the KV -2 agonizingly slow and unstable. Majority KV -2 was lost in the first months of German intrusion, and production is convoluted with the evacuation of the plant in 1941.
http://howard-stern.narod.ru/tankuww2/ussr_t12.htm

After the evacuation the plant to the Ural it was decided to developed new heavy tank IS-1/2.

Gen. Sandworm
12-08-2006, 02:54 AM
Even thou this thing is absolutely hideous ill point out some things.

1. If I saw it coming I would run like hell.
2. Love the idea of the forward/back machine guns.
3. With a crew of 6 this thing had to be pretty crampt. Even though it would make a great place to take a nap while waiting. Unless a bomber comes along. :neutral:

Panzerknacker
12-08-2006, 08:40 AM
. If I saw it coming I would run like hell.

I would run too, when you saw the bullets of the guys in the panzerjager kompanie ricocheting everywhere :shock: ....you better get the hell out of there.

50 and 37 mm hits in th rear turret ner defensive MG.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/91/kv13ac.jpg


Now serius, the german infantry only equipped with 37and 50 mm Pak had to fought desperately, remember that in those days (late 1941 early 1942) there was no Panzerfaust or panzerschreck...not even a magnetic hollow charge mine and no Pak 40 of 75 mm, most of the tank were equipped with short barreled guns. The infantry had to take some very nasty measures agaist this monsters, the KV-1 was in part like a 1941 Tiger.



large mass made the KV -2 agonizingly slow and unstable



But impressive tank isnt ?

http://x402.putfile.com/4/11720441952.jpg


http://gunpoint-3d.com/list-tanks_russian.html

alephh
12-08-2006, 10:43 AM
If I saw it coming I would run like hell.

But if you run towards softer ground, and the KV-2 follows even couple of meters it would sink/stuck in the ground and be helpless ;-D

I admit it is not a foolproof tactic ;-D


_

Strina-Croatia
12-09-2006, 07:34 AM
I think the best Kliment Voroshilov tank was the 1 S type.Because it was much faster then the regular KV 1 .The S symbolizes speed so i think it was a great weapon

Panzerknacker
12-11-2006, 07:46 AM
It was more reliable design but the reduced armor of the KV-1S cannot withstand the new tankguns introduced by the german army in 1942-43.


---------------------


KV-1E with aditional armor: this was caused by the russian experts who sawe the german newsreel of the invation of France in 1940, in those apeared several pictures of the heravy Char B-1 bis penetrated by a large caliber guns, the russian wasnt aware of the 88 mm flak ( wich caused that penetrations) and tough that the german have some heavy tanks cannons installed in their panzers.


http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/5169/ms27kv1scr8mv.jpg

Panzerknacker
12-19-2006, 11:26 AM
Luger Vs KV-1E :shock:... :roll:


http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2930/21zv.jpg

Note the side turret holes in this heavy vehicle.

Strina-Croatia
12-20-2006, 11:38 AM
By thopse holes i vould say it was a 50 mmm Pak??

VonWeyer
12-21-2006, 06:19 AM
A brilliant picture!

Panzerknacker
12-21-2006, 07:07 PM
Indeed.



By thopse holes i vould say it was a 50 mmm Pak??



Honestly i dont know...teorically the 75mm base plus this 20mm aplique plate should stop the 50 mm AP shot, and even the 88 mm at more than 1500.

Maybe it was a couple of "special" Pzg 40, that round with tugsten core.


http://img173.imageshack.us/img173/4510/kv1jpegip2.jpg

In here you can found a very nice photo gallery of the "screened" KV-1.

http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/galleries/KV_1scr.htm

Strina-Croatia
12-29-2006, 05:43 PM
I think the main problem with the KV-s was there design it was reather flat??What do you hink about that people?

Panzerknacker
12-29-2006, 08:40 PM
Flat ? :neutral: I dont know about that but according some german sources it have a very very bad visibility.

Nickdfresh
12-30-2006, 11:07 AM
But with his 360º revolving turret and the provition of AP ammo it could be used as a aheavy tank without trouble, it could and it was.

...

Indeed, I would imagine that with a gun that size, the KV1 could wreak havoc on an enemy tank, even with just HE rounds.

Panzerknacker
01-03-2007, 05:46 PM
It does, the 152 mm AP proyectile can penetrate more than 100 mm armor, the sights were a little crude however.

Sturmfuhrer
01-15-2007, 04:47 AM
Here is an article about most famouse fight of KV-1

The newspaper "Into the glory of the native land" from 09.09.06

Main battle of Senior Lieutenant Zinoviy Kolobanov.

"To stand to death!" - task I obtained personally from the division commander Baranov, told Kolobanov after war to Leningrad journalists. - he showed me on the map the fork of the roads, which go in the Luga and Kingisepp, and he ordered: "to overlap and to stand to death". Situation in the environs of Leningrad was such, that I perceived the order of division commander literally. Yes, to step back was already nowhere: behind was Leningrad...
Kolobanov told: "when I returned to the company, they soldiers already concluded loading rounds. Were taken mainly armor-piercing. Two fire units. There were three roads, which should be be overlapped, .
I gave orders to the crew, to defend roads on the flanks, and I decided to defend the road in the center. With the tank commanders we supported radio communication. Company sent two tanks - Lieutenant Sergeyev and Junior Lieutenants Yevdokimenko - to the Luga road (now - Kiev highway). Two additional KV under the command of Lieutenant Lastochkin and Junior Lieutenant Degtyar were directed to protect the road, which leads to Volosovo. Tank of company commander stood in ambush in the road, which connects Tallin highway with the road to Marienburg - in the North outskirts of Krasnogvardeysk.
Let us again give word to Zinof kolobanov: "road went past us at small angle, excellently examined. We began organization of the position for the ambush. But to dig out caponnier for KV - this, I will directly say, heavy labor. On top of that soil fell strong. But we equipped the primary position, and spare. Tank was placed, all they thoroughly disguised ".
For his tank Kolobanov determined position in such a way, that in the sector of fire was the longest, well opened section of road. Distance to it about 150 meter. Around in the field the untidy stacks was seen: the extensive swampy meadows were pulled along both sides of road in Marienburg. There was even small lake with the ducks carelessly floating on it.
Nearer to the night approached infantry cover. Very young Lieutenant reported Kolobanovu, that he arrived at his disposal. Experienced tanker understood: from the infantry in this battle it will be little to sense. But fearing, that the Germans will visit KV into the rear and will blind crew by the smoke pots, he ordered to place infantrymen behind the tank, in the side so that they would look after the flanks.
"To the battle!"
19 August 1941. Morning. The sun rose. About ten o`clock they heard shots to the left - on the road, where held defense the armored machines of Lieutenant Lastochkin and Junior Lieutenant Degtyar. They reported on the radio that one of the crews engaged the battle with the German tanks. Kolobanov called for the commander of the infantry unit and ordered: to him to open fire only after KV`s gun will fire. About two o`clock appeared enemy vihicles. After slamming the hulls, crew stood still at their places. Gunner Senior Sergeant Andrey Usov reported, that he sees three motorcycles with the carriages. The order of the commander followed: - don`t open fire! German motorcyclists rushed forward to the side of Marienburg, without noticing disguised in the ambush KV. Carrying out the order Of Kolobanov, reconnaissance and the infantrymen did not begin to open fire also. Dust yet did not calm down , when column appearad . In front - staff vihicles, after them - tanks. To Leningrad moved units of the 10th tank regiment of the eighth tank division of Wehrmacht.
T -.III and T -.IV moved on the reduced distance, substituting their left boards almost on strict angle to KV`s gun: ideal targets! Their hulls were opened, part of the Germans sat on the armor. Crew even distinguished their faces - it was only 150 meter to the road!
Column pulled out along the highway. It seemed it will be no end. "eighteen... Twenty... Twenty two!", - counted the tanks Kolobanov. At this time with the company commander along the radio connected battalion commander Shpiller. He sternly asked: - "Kolobanov, why you let Germans to pass?!" To answer battalion commander there was no time: leading tank slowly left to the cross-road and close approached two birches - orientator №1.
Leading tank they blowed with the first round. By the second shot, directly on the cross-road, was stopped the second tank. The plug arose on the road. Column was pressed as spring, and tanks merged into one gray wall. Kolobanov ordered to transfer fire to the tail of column in order to finally lock it on the road. So enemy was in the trap: neither forward nor back tanks could move, and they did not dare to roll up to the swampy field. First time germans could not even determine from where shooting is conducted, and they opened fire from their guns on the shocks of hays, which immidiatelly caught fire. But soon ambush was discovered, and tank duel of one KV against eighteen German tanks began. To the Kolobanov`s tank was brought down entire deg of armor-piercing shells. About what thaught enemy tankers, turning towers and loking to the target sights? Probably, lonely Soviet tank seemed them a suicider. They yet did not know that they deal with KV.
From the masking soon did`t remain anything. Tankers suffocate from gunpowder gases, became deaf from the frequent impacts of German rounds about the armor. Loader, Red Army private Nikolai Rodenkov worked in the rabid rate, forcing into the breech of gun round after round. Usov didn`t abandon the target sight, and continued to conduct fire...
Kolobanov recalled after the war: "I`m frequently asked: did I feel fear at that moment? It is uncomfortable to answer, you can think that I`m boasting. But I felt no fear. I will explain, why. I`m soldier. After retirement for twenty three years worked in the national economy. But nevertheless entire life it felt myself soldier. At that time division commander gave me order "to stand to death". These words are not some emotional formulation, but precise order. I accepted it to the performance. It was finished, if it is necessary, to die. And no fear I had and couldn`t have ".
... the commanders of the tanks, which held defense on other roads, reported on the radio about the situation in their sections. Kolobanov understood from their reports that there also occur fierce fightings and reinforcment will not come...
Understanding, that burn into the trap, Germans attempted somehow to maneuver. But they got stuck in the swamp. KV`s rounds struck their tanks one after another. But numerous direct hits of enemy rounds did not cause special harm to Soviet tank. Infantry unit came to help German tankers. Germans rolled for the road anti-tank guns. Kolobanovnoted these preparations of the enemy. - orientator is two! - he yelled. - straight line, under the front panel, fragmentation - fire! Usov
struck by HE fragmentation round the antitank guns. When German infantry joined the battle the infantry unit located behind KV began fire. Usov managed to destroy one of the guns immediately. But the second gun had time to produce several shots. One of them broke the scanning periscope, from which conducted the battlefield surveillance Kolobanov, and another, after striking under the tower, wedged it. Usov soon was possible to break that gun, but KV lost the possibility to turn its seven-ton tower. Now the corrective turns of the gun to the right and to the left could be made, only turning entire tank.
And again word to Kolobanov: "What does remember tanker about the battle? Crossing of sight. Here stress is such, that the time is compressed, to the outside thoughts there is not second. I remember, as my fellows shouted: "hurray!", "it burns!.." But to restore some details of this battle - I can`t". ... Nikolai Kisel'kov came out to the armor and established spare periscope instead of the damaged. Kolobanovt ordered driver Nikolai Nikiforov to derive tank from the caponnier and to engage alternate firing position. On the eyes in Germans huge tank moved backward from its shelter, drived in the bushes and again opened fire on the column. Now it was necessary for the driver to show his skills. Carrying out Usov's orders, he once after at once turned KV in the necessary direction. The fire of enemy gradually weakened. Finally last tank was destroyed, battle ceased. They burnt all of 22 German tanks. In their armored wombs the ammunition continued to vomit, heavy dark-blue smoke was pulled above the swampy plain...
During the slaughter that lasted more than hour, Kolobanov`s crew
fired on the tanks and the anti-tank guns of the enemy 98 rounds, including all armor-piercing. In that battle KV obtained 156 hits from the armor-piercing shells. The battalion commander established connection.
By the loud voice Shpiller asked:
- Kolobanov how it goes? Do they burn?
- They burn well, comrade battalion commander!
Senior Lieutenant reported: crew destroyed the enemy tank column with number into 22 combat vehicles, crew cannot further hold position, cause ammunition end, there are no armor-piercing shells, and tank itself obtained serious damages.
Soon on the armored car drove up Shpiller. Together with him there was civil person with the film camera in the hands. After clinging to the viewfinder, he shot a long panorama of the burning column of Germans. Shpiller thanked crew for the successful fulfillment of combat mission and reported that soon the place of battle will approach the tanks of Lieutenant Lastochkin and Junior Lieutenant Degtyar.
For that battle Senior Lieutenant Kolobanov was rewarded with the Order of the Red Banner, and the gunner of tank Senior Sergeant Usov - by Order of Lenin.

http://armor.kiev.ua/Battle/WWII/kolobanov/?img=01.jpg

Kolobanov is in the center of the foto!

Sturmfuhrer
01-15-2007, 04:51 AM
And a little bit more.



Soldier Fates

After the battle the Kolobanov`s company was brought out into the neighbor rears to the completion of ammunition and for the repair. But the repairing of tank tightened itself almost for the month: in the city, from the last forces resisting Hitler assault, there were no spare parts, no workers... At night on 21 September in the South outskirts of Pushkin near to Kolobanov's tank German round exploded. Hero obtained heavy injury into the spine. At the end of February 1942 injured Kolobanov was transferred from blockade Leningrad to the large earth. Both 43 and 44 he stayed in the hospitals, anew he learned to walk with difficulty. Kolobanov recalled: "for some reason I was convinced that I will not die. But he proved to be by cripple. Entire body by piston walked, head shook. In the hospital, by the way, with me it was brought to anew see battle under Voyskovitsami: the personnel, taken there, entered into one of the releases of military newsreel. After being collected forces and courage, it asked again into the native army. It was necessary, of course, to reject stick, to be held. Great happiness: they took. He served. "Comrades understood me, they helped. Thanks to them ". At the end of 1944 it returned into the acting army. The miracle happened: He survived in heaviest combat. And what is more - for combat on The Magnushevskom bridgehead he was rewarded with the Order of the Red Star, for the Berlin operation - by second Order of the Red Banner. War Zinoviy Grigor'evich finished in Berlin. The hero-tanker died 12 years ago...
The fate of gunner Andrey Mikhaylovich Usov proved to be happier. He passed with combat war to the end. He returned to Vitebshchinu, he was the secretary of the district committee of party. But, probably and in its native Tolochine there is no Usov's street...
Brave radio operator Pavel Kisel'kov perished soon after Kolobanov was injured in combat on the Neva "pyatachok". The relatives of courageous front line soldier now live in Saint Petersburg . Perished and loader, a "good person" Red Army private Nikolai Rodenkov. All that is known about the fatee of the former KV driver Nikolai Ivanovich Nikiforov is that he passed entire war to the end, and then he remained to serve in the army, trained young tankers. In 1974 died from the severe illness of lungs. He is buried in the environs of Leningrad, in his native village Of Borki * * *

http://armor.kiev.ua/Battle/WWII/kolobanov/?img=02.jpg

http://armor.kiev.ua/Battle/WWII/kolobanov/?img=08.jpg

Chevan
01-19-2007, 12:22 AM
It's amazing excellent story, many thank's Sturmfuhrer.
I didn't heard about leutanant Kovobanov's tank early. The exact figurest of hited germans tank (22) controversial is but this battle really was.( as and many other simylar battles of KV in summer-authumn of 1941)

Cheers.

Sturmfuhrer
01-19-2007, 05:26 AM
Concerning figures: I forgot to mention, Kolobanov`s company in that battle eliminated totaly 43 german tanks. Quit amazing fact. First time I met this information in the book "Tankists in the battle for Leningrad" issued in 1985 and didn`t believe it. But later I checked this info in different sources and it is no doubt everything is right.
One thing seems strange to me, as follows rom the text there were only T-3 and T-4 tanks and scouts on motorcycles. I suppose germans should also have armoured cars or light tanks as a recon unit. And it could happen that some armored cars were calculated as eliminated tanks

GermanSoldier
01-24-2007, 08:39 PM
Yes they did die hard, but with honor.

Panzerknacker
03-07-2007, 08:24 PM
Nice stories, in here you got some aditional information on tank aces.

http://wio.ru/tank/ww2aces.htm


And this is a creative manner to kill a KV-1: :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0v1zTsuXDI

Egorka
03-09-2007, 04:47 PM
Oooops!!!

http://mechcorps.rkka.ru/files/mechcorps/media/kv-1_6mk.jpg

Panzerknacker
03-09-2007, 05:15 PM
It was too heavy for that bridge aniway.

Egorka
03-10-2007, 04:38 PM
It was too heavy for that bridge aniway.

Do you see from the brifge type that it could not bare 48 tonns?

Here is a prototype with extra 45mm cannon:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Kv1_prototype.jpg


Here is modification of 1939 (with 76mm cannon L-11, 141 tanks built):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Kv1_m39.jpg

KV-1 of Pavel Horoshilov (tanks name "Merciless"):
http://wio.ru/tank/aces/killer.jpg

KV-1 turret inside view:
http://lostworld.nwd.ru/spur04/sp04_39.jpg

Egorka
03-11-2007, 05:46 AM
Look at this one: http://www.chamtec.com/materials/kv1vi6.avi

KV-1 pullet out of Neva river:
http://www.around.spb.ru/variety/kv/neva19042002/img/kv1-1-11.jpg

Chevan
03-11-2007, 11:15 AM
Amazing photos mate, thanks.

Panzerknacker
03-11-2007, 03:23 PM
Do you see from the brifge type that it could not bare 48 tonns?


With that amount of wooden structure i dont think so...if is a railway brigde maybe.

Panzerknacker
03-14-2007, 09:48 PM
KV-8 flametrower variant of KV-1S.

http://i9.tinypic.com/33dci9u.jpg

Egorka
03-15-2007, 05:15 AM
Oooops again!!!

Chevan
03-15-2007, 05:29 AM
http://bronetehnika.narod.ru/
Here is excellent gallery of Kv-2

Egorka
03-15-2007, 07:15 AM
Oooops, #3.

http://i16.tinypic.com/2u6mr93.jpg

Panzerknacker
03-15-2007, 09:37 PM
Oooops again!!!

http://www.anticancer.net/dop/foto/0241.jpg


I guess that this picture show that the turret in the KV 2 was a little disbalanced. :neutral:

Egorka
03-16-2007, 05:27 AM
I guess that this picture show that the turret in the KV 2 was a little disbalanced. :neutral:
Do you know that there was a project KV-220 with even bigger turret? It was built in 1 exemplar. 16 october 1941 it was sent to 124 tank brigade in the Leningrad defence line. But the turret was replaced with a one from KV-1 with 76-mm cannon F-32. The engine was equiped with turbine which produced wistling nose similar to the diving Stukas. In the start every time the tank moved "air strike" command was yelled across the neighboring units. The tank was destroyed in December 1941.



http://i17.tinypic.com/2r3xaba.jpg

Later, I will present here extract from an interview with one of the KV designers.

Panzerknacker
03-16-2007, 08:17 AM
Nice, I see a pic of another KV with a 107 mm gun...impressive, and that was in 1941.

Is funny how the russian let pass the oportunity to have a tank mighty as the Tiger 1 ...two year earlier.

Egorka
03-16-2007, 09:40 AM
Hello,

Panzercracker, I think, KV was Tiger for its time, but it could not match it later, as you know. Why? Read the article below it might clear many things.

I came across the interview of Nikolai F. Shashmurin (Николай Федорович Шашмурин) in this article "Shot-hole in the armour": http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/shashmurin/

Mr.Shashmurin spent 50 years designing soviet tanks, from 3 turets SMK to T80.
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/shashmurin/sh1.jpg

Here are some extracts from his interview:






As strange as it might seem, the eventual problems with KV were directly connected to its name. (my comment: KV stands for Klim Voroshilov, one of the Sovied Marshal and Revolutionary.) ... Matter that, special construction beuro of the Kirov plant (SKV-2), where KV was designed, was lead by Gozef J. Kotin since 1937. He was married on the Voroshilovs step daughter. Kotin was very good at feeling the political atmosfeer in the country and could guess who want what. Living in full harmony witht cult of Stalin, for vivid demonstration of "love and affection" to the bosses, he started assign the names of "fighter for right cause" to the projects. And who could contradict the relative of Klim Voroshilov? ... Unfortunatly, we have to admit that KV was from the start designed not so much for war, but for show off.

KV is normaly praised for the strong armour and excellent gun. But this is not due to tank designers, but the metalurgist for armour and artilerists for the gun. The goal of the tank designers is in 1 thing: to take existing units and assemble them in the most optimal way, designing the motor and transmission and suspension. This often more difficult than design of each unit separatly.
The result can render best units in to worsless when they are assembled in one machine. Tank KV having good components was not a real fighting machine - due to unrelyable transmission. And formidable by the looks tank wbecame a burden of the Red Army...

The Tank was very impressive. The directors of the Kirov plant were very quick to realise that Stalin would be glad, becasue he loved everything that could visibly show the strenght of the proletarian state. And they had to be quick to show the tank. Because in Harkov plant T-34 under development, the tank that could become the main battle tank (and that is what happened at the end).

The Kirov plant was working too rapidly in the state of crasy chase. And not so much against the potential enemy, but against constructor of the t-34 in Harkov plant...

At the end of 1940 the first prototypes were made and sent immidiatly to the Soviet-Finninsh front, luckely for the plant the front line was very close to Leningrad. On 17 of December the first engagement of KV happened...

and immidiately the telegramms about the victorious performance was sent to Moscow. And practicaly the next day, 19 Dec 1940, the state commity of Ministry of Defence issued the order that KV are taken for production of the tank, that practicaly did not even exist yet.

T-34 had to drive self all the way from Harkov to Moscow to show the quality, where is KV was accepted with ZERO test driving...

The raw tank kept comming to RKKA, but press kept writing brilliant articles about outstanding victory of the soviet constructors. KV got halo of being invincible. The foreigh oservers agrred, becasue could only see the tank from outside. But reclamations kept comming from the active army units, but they were normally dismissed as the result of low crue skills... There was even a special govenment comission for investigation, that founf serious design faults...

Instead of concentrating on fixing KV-1, the Kirov plant started works on the newarmoured dinosaurs: KV-3 weighing 65t, KV-4 - 80t, KV-5 - 100t. As sad as it was, but the sign of technical insanity apeared in our work much earlier than in Germany with their "Mouse" weighing 180t.

The first days of the war showed that KV-1, as it was prodused, could not be used with really, because was absolutely unreliable as veicle.

In the winter 1941 - 1942 in Cheliabinsk, where the plant was evacuated, was "invented" KV-7 with 3 (three) coaxial cannons! A lot of materials and talent was wasted on this surreal ideas.

Panzerknacker
03-18-2007, 12:29 PM
Thanks Egorka for the tasty information. unfortunately i forgot to bring with me the KV book that I have to do some scans, maybe tomorrow.

Panzerknacker
03-19-2007, 07:07 PM
This is the picture I want to show, it is a experimetal KV-2 with a F-39 antitank 107mm gun, that was installed because the misconception of the germans footage wich made delieve that they had heavy tanks in 1941, in here the KV-107 is doing some test with Stalin in sight.

http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/2525/kv107vh2.jpg

Sturmfuhrer
03-22-2007, 05:10 AM
Just a little more info on the topic:

http://www.wio.ru/tank/kv.htm

GermanSoldier
03-22-2007, 02:26 PM
KV-2 Pictures
http://i13.tinypic.com/2lt60lj.jpg

http://i13.tinypic.com/2cervrt.jpg


http://i3.tinypic.com/2ppgd2q.jpg
Hope you like the pictures Panzerknacker.

Panzerknacker
03-23-2007, 09:15 AM
Nice, the KV-2 seems to be a magnet for the Leica cameras of the german soldiers.


Here a profile of the KV "Mercyless" posted early by Egorka.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1733/kvyv3.jpg

Until his destruction in combat in 1943 this tank was credited with the destruction of 12 german tanks, 4 antitank guns, 2 field howitzers, 7 mortars, 4 heavy Mgs, 10 trucks, and 2 buses.

GermanSoldier
03-23-2007, 10:24 PM
An awesome amount of casualties done by the exact tank Panzerknacker had posted. By any chance do you have anymore info? Like on famous KV tank groups or certain tanks that you can post? That goes for anybody who has info on this great tank.

Panzerknacker
03-25-2007, 10:33 AM
More info about that tank ?

Not really just a picture of the killmarks painted on a side of the turret.


And it was not THAT awesome, was importat yes, but no that big.

GermanSoldier
03-25-2007, 09:16 PM
More info about that tank ?

Not really just a picture of the killmarks painted on a side of the turret.


And it was not THAT awesome, was importat yes, but no that big.

Ok, well I was wondering if anybody could tell me any KV-2 tank squadrons. That is what I was looking for. Everything else was a little something extra that would of helped me out on understanding the KV-2 tanks a little better.

Panzerknacker
04-03-2007, 07:08 AM
Other profiles of KV-1, this time a KV-1S ( s for "fast") wich participate in the encirclementh of the german 6th Army.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7081/kvzb3.jpg


Picture from: "Kv-1 and KV-2 Heavy tanks" 1940-1945, Steven Zaloga.

Panzerknacker
09-07-2007, 09:23 AM
A very funny image of a panzer crew arming some KV-1 models for identification. Is good to remember that the armored units soldiers in WW2 had no the benefits of Google, Altavista of the latest Osprey "New Vanguard" collection. :rolleyes:


http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1369/panzerkvminimb1.jpg

Splinter54
09-08-2007, 08:01 AM
KV-2 Pictures
http://i13.tinypic.com/2lt60lj.jpg

Interresting - if i am not too tired to see this right, there is written 'I. Kompanie' with chalk on the Tanks' turret.
So was it captured? If yes, hadn't those vehicles equipped then with German Commandant Coppulas? - Or it was just 'fresh' from the Battlefield/Production site/Transportation captured ...

Regards ;)

Panzerknacker
09-10-2007, 06:45 PM
Probably those were recently captured, and are "fresh" from the front.

In here you can see a captured KV-1 with Pz III cuppola and even Panzer IV kanone (long) in 1942.

http://www.choiquehobbies.com.ar/revista01/graf/picrev/6.jpg

Panzerknacker
09-26-2007, 07:34 PM
The KV-2 "explained" to the german infantry, training video, probably late 1941.

http://video.google.es/videohosted?docid=-1693033010928476738

Panzerknacker
05-05-2008, 06:51 PM
KV-1S versus Tiger tank, a story from the Kursk battle.

http://i32.tinypic.com/2zh2opf.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/25675dy.jpg

snebold
05-27-2008, 01:14 PM
Probably those were recently captured, and are "fresh" from the front.

In here you can see a captured KV-1 with Pz III cuppola and even Panzer IV kanone (long) in 1942.

Donīt think the picture came with here... but whatīs going on with the German KV-1īs tracks?

Is there an estimate for how many KVīs that were re-armed by the Germans?

Panzerknacker
05-28-2008, 06:37 PM
The number of captured KVs must be around 200 but not all were put again in running conditions, the 22 of june of 1941 the Red Army had 508 KV-s all tipes of wich about 80 % were available to the front service.

http://i30.tinypic.com/9sdnrn.jpg

Egorka
05-30-2008, 07:11 AM
KV-1S versus Tiger tank, a story from the Kursk battle.


Panzerknacker, what book is it from?

Panzerknacker
05-30-2008, 08:30 AM
KV 1 and KV 2 heavy Tanks, Osprey New Vanguard 17.

Egorka
05-30-2008, 02:56 PM
Gracias! :)

Panzerknacker
08-27-2008, 07:04 PM
KV-1 in mine clearing duties:

http://i37.tinypic.com/314yzog.jpg

By the way the word "electronic" in the epigraph in not correct, it should said "electric".

ww11freak34
09-30-2008, 08:56 PM
must have hard to taskeout the tank

Panzerknacker
02-01-2009, 06:07 PM
A short clip of an captured KV-2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyVjOJnPj7o

Schuultz
02-02-2009, 02:03 PM
There's something bulky about it that makes it seem like a way too easy target. And it also looks like it would tip over very easily...

Panzerknacker
02-03-2009, 05:21 PM
Big target but heavily armored, note in the video that there are no penetrations.

Panzerknacker
04-21-2009, 08:58 PM
KV-2 inmobilizated in a swamp, I am not sure if this tank mounted some special short howitzer or is that the gun get stuck in the backward recoil position...

Uyraell
04-22-2009, 03:43 AM
KV-2 inmobilizated in a swamp, I am not sure if this tank mounted some special short howitzer or is that the gun get stuck in the backward recoil position...

http://i41.tinypic.com/x5yu5k.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/9y0k.jpg
Hello PK,
From what I can observe, it looks as though the gun recoil reservoir has been drained of oil, then the gun fired, and thus the gun made useless. If the KV2 was being abandoned, the crew would then have taken the breech-block from the gun breech and removed it (perhaps dropping it in the swamp), making the tank useless to enemy troops.

Such a precaution would be normal, and would result in the appearance of the main armament as the picture shows it: because the tube would be unable to return to battery without the recoil mechanism working.

Granted, I am "guessing" a little, but the picture certainly fits the circumstances I outline above. Wiser heads than mine may know more, I admit that. It does seem plain though that what I outline above is high among the likeliest of explanations.

Regards, Uyraell.

Panzerknacker
04-22-2009, 05:48 PM
God observation, good observation, I just noticed the two holes below the barrel.
Thanks.

flamethrowerguy
04-22-2009, 06:31 PM
KV-2 in German service (Panzerkompanie z.b.V 66). This unit was originally deployed for Operation Herkules, the intended invasion of Malta. Note the German commandant's cuppola on the turret.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/64988-2/DS1985_212_1%23 (http://www.ww2incolor.com/german-armor/DS1985_212_1%23.html)

Panzerknacker
04-22-2009, 06:49 PM
That would be a nasty surprize for the britons :mrgreen:, fortunately from them it was never used in Malta invation role.

Schuultz
04-22-2009, 07:37 PM
That would be a nasty surprize for the britons :mrgreen:, fortunately from them it was never used in Malta invation role.

They would have definitely been surprised. They probably would have announced that the Germans seem to have a new monster tank. :D

flamethrowerguy
04-22-2009, 08:43 PM
Still impressive. the KV-1 photos of the German National Archives:

3306

3307

3308

3309

Schuultz
04-22-2009, 09:48 PM
I have to say it's somewhat weird when you see images like that. Nothing in the environment indicates that there has ever been a tank battle there, and if it wasn't for the destroyed machine, you would think that nobody would ever bother to fight up there...

Nickdfresh
04-23-2009, 12:16 AM
They would have definitely been surprised. They probably would have announced that the Germans seem to have a new monster tank. :D

Nah. They would have had to float it to Malta. And KV1s don't float! ;)

Incidentally, it seems the Heer loved to send captured tanks put into service to islands, as German impressed Char B1s were sent to the Channel Islands...

Schuultz
04-23-2009, 07:34 AM
Well, maybe they thought that the Tanks on islands were more as a kind of 'reserve', so they chose to use captured ones and not 'waste' some of their own...

Rising Sun*
04-23-2009, 08:08 AM
That would be a nasty surprize for the britons :mrgreen:, fortunately from them it was never used in Malta invation role.

It doesn't matter, as Malta was never invaded nor was an Axis invasion even attempted, despite huge Axis efforts to reduce Malta from the air and sea.

In case it's not already known, Malta is the only entity apart from a person to receive the highest British award for civilian bravery, the George Cross. In strict British and Commonwealth usage, it is Malta GC. The GC is second only to the VC in bravery awards.

Nickdfresh
04-23-2009, 09:21 AM
Well, maybe they thought that the Tanks on islands were more as a kind of 'reserve', so they chose to use captured ones and not 'waste' some of their own...

I suspect that that is the case. But I also think the Heer was thinking of the operational radius of the Char B being reduced and the resulting need for maintainability and spare parts being reduced. The tanks also would have been very effective against anything the Allies could field into 1943. So it was simply the case of maximizing their assets.

Nickdfresh
04-23-2009, 09:23 AM
It doesn't matter, as Malta was never invaded nor was an Axis invasion even attempted, despite huge Axis efforts to reduce Malta from the air and sea.

In case it's not already known, Malta is the only entity apart from a person to receive the highest British award for civilian bravery, the George Cross. In strict British and Commonwealth usage, it is Malta GC. The GC is second only to the VC in bravery awards.

To add to that, I don't think a German operation on Malta would have went very well. But of course they never had the necessary air, nor naval, superiority to even attempt it...

flamethrowerguy
04-23-2009, 09:54 AM
To add to that, I don't think a German operation on Malta would have went very well. But of course they never had the necessary air, nor naval, superiority to even attempt it...

"OP Herkules" was planned as an airborne operation by combined German and Italian paratroops, scheduled for spring 1942. The Kreta experiences however were pretty much the reason Hitler cancelled the whole thing.

Rising Sun*
04-23-2009, 10:01 AM
To add to that, I don't think a German operation on Malta would have went very well. But of course they never had the necessary air, nor naval, superiority to even attempt it...

Dunno. It might have been possible, at the right time in the early part of the war, such as attacking Malta with airborne etc instead of Crete in 1941. But that wasn't a sensible or even realistically available step at the time as Crete was necessary to close the door on the Allied (i.e. British Commonwealth) defeat in Greece to exclude the Allies (i.e. British Commonwealth) from the Balkans and thus a toehold in Europe.

But as the Germans and Italians combined never managed to reduce Malta nor even to mount an invasion, even when Malta and Britain were at their weakest and the Italians and Germans weren't, you're probably correct.

Interesting sidelight is that after the devastating German paratrooper losses in Crete Hitler is reputed to have ordered that German paratroopers would never be used again in a major airborne assault, but in the proposed but never implemented Operation Herkules Hitler approved the use of major paratrooper units for the invasion of Malta.

Rising Sun*
04-23-2009, 10:04 AM
"OP Herkules" was planned as an airborne operation by combined German and Italian paratroops, scheduled for spring 1942. The Kreta experiences however were pretty much the reason Hitler cancelled the whole thing.

My understanding is that Hitler (and Mussolini) approved the use of paratroops for Herkules almost a year after Crete, although the operation was never implemented.

I interpret Hitler's approval, regardless of the failure actually to implement the operation, as putting a question mark over his supposed decision never to use a major paratroop assault after the huge losses in Crete. Which, it should always be remembered, was a German victory.

flamethrowerguy
04-23-2009, 10:10 AM
My understanding is that Hitler (and Mussolini) approved the use of paratroops for Herkules almost a year after Crete, although the operation was never implemented.


Sure, but he still remained sceptical towards major airborne operations. This and his lacking confidence in the Italian readiness for action certainly influenced his decision.

Rising Sun*
04-23-2009, 10:13 AM
... his lacking confidence in the Italian readiness for action certainly influenced his decision.

Which just goes to show that he could make rational assessments and wasn't completely mad. If he was mad at all, which I doubt.

Schuultz
04-23-2009, 10:25 AM
He is suggested to have had Parkinson, in which case he wouldn't necessarily be mad, but severely impaired in his judgment once the disease progressed (which would have been parallel to the war).

I would say he was never a very skilled Commander, as he let his Ego interfere too much with military reason, but in the later stages of the war, his lack of real skill combined with the delusions caused by his disease, which resulted in an unskilled, delusional Commander with little tolerance of even constructive criticism.

One can only pity the Generals that had to serve under him.

Panzerknacker
04-24-2009, 06:48 PM
Still impressive. the KV-1 photos of the German National Archives:



Ver nice photos, thank you. That is a "die hard" :mrgreen:. is interesting to see the location of what appeared to be the only 2 penetrations , in one of the thickest sections of the cast armor turret.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2cfwhz9.jpg



OP Herkules" was planned as an airborne operation by combined German and Italian paratroops, scheduled for spring 1942. The Kreta experiences however were pretty much the reason Hitler cancelled the whole thing.


I think the operation could be succesful, but not without heavy casualties, however if we look at the Kreta operation the succes was undeniable...and was acomplished with no tanks and no naval superiority. The paratrooper and "Luftlande" soldier captured the island with relative light weapons and zero armored support.

By late 1942 the italians had at list one decent paras unit, the Folgore ( Thunderbolt) with could fight at more or less the sam elevel of german equivalent. The naval units would take heavy losses undoubtly but with 2 or 3 tanks KVs landing the moral would collape in the defenders side, there were no defenses against this machine in the hands of the british infantry and certainly the Matildas and Valentines with their 2 pound peashooter would not cause the russian monster a lot of problems.

I dont think it even need to waste 152mm armor piercing shells, just rolling over with the tracks would be enough, that was a russian tactic used against german Pak 36 and 38 in the Eastern front when the crews run out of ammunition.

flamethrowerguy
04-24-2009, 08:09 PM
Two more from the same source:

Destroyed KV-1, near Woronesh, June 1942. Looks like a major internal detonation since the bow MG mantlet was blown out:

3313

Damaged KV-2, Northern sector, summer 1941. Seems like it was supposed to get towed off before eventually abandoned:

3314

Chevan
04-25-2009, 11:54 PM
I have to say it's somewhat weird when you see images like that. Nothing in the environment indicates that there has ever been a tank battle there, and if it wasn't for the destroyed machine, you would think that nobody would ever bother to fight up there...

I think there has no tank battle at all. Germans probably found abandoned/damaged tank, then thier artillery began the "practice exerices" on tank. There was nothing odd, keep in mind that GErmans in 1941 faced the Heavy tanks for the first time.
I read one story when Germans "practiced" on T-34 with captured crew. Tank , without ammon, moved righ on the test field , truing to escape the artillery AA-fire.Germans trued to find the best way to hit the new soviet tanks and it's weak armored places.
The Soviets even shoted the film ( very dramatic and excellent IMO) in mid 1960 about such unfair testings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhavoronok
Later Poles added the idea in ww2 television serial "Four tankers and dog"

flamethrowerguy
04-26-2009, 08:14 AM
It seems the Germans made a lot of target practice that day...

3317

Chevan
04-27-2009, 12:16 AM
It seems the Germans made a lot of target practice that day...



It's not odd, coz they had more then enough "targets" in 1941-42:)
Red Army lost half of its tank park till autumn of 1941.

flamethrowerguy
04-28-2009, 07:45 AM
It's not odd, coz they had more then enough "targets" in 1941-42:)
Red Army lost half of its tank park till autumn of 1941.

Actually these series of photos was taken in August 1942 during the German summer offensive in the River Don area.

Panzerknacker
04-28-2009, 07:36 PM
I saw also images of the battle of Kharkov in 1942 and the quantity of destroyed armor including Kvs is amazingly high. Most were finished by Stukas however.

steben
09-06-2011, 04:49 AM
YEs, KV-1 was exactly the Russian Tiger in from '40 - early '42.
Almost invincible, able to destroy opponents, ... but also very heavy, dubious steering and transmission ....

And at the end: the heavies didn't make or break, it were the mediums :neutral:
The KV-1 did not halt the advance

This remains a very impressive tank: Pz 756(r)
http://beute.narod.ru/Beutepanzer/su/color/KV/kv-1-04.jpg