British Antitank weapons.

[Panzerknacker]

The Stanchion Gun cal .55

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3197/boys9oz.jpg[/URL]


The idea of a rifle, which could challenge the armour of tanks, was not new when the threat of a second world war was becoming reality. Already during WWI an increased performance of specially designed rifles enabled the soldiers to pierce the armour of tanks with the help of an easily portable anti-tank rifle.Originally called the Stanchion, it was renamed to honour one of its principal designers, Captain Boys, to become the Boys Anti Tank rifle. A nightmare for beginners, it proved to be a quite easy to handle if the firer that it had to be gripped tightly.

Its use was wide-spread over most theatres of war, being used both as a portable infantry anti-tank rifle and a weapon fitted into armoured cars, but had the greatest success in North Africa, where it could handle the front armour of most Italian tanks. The mobile style of European warfare with the mailed fist of massed tanks, introduced by the Wehrmacht and aptly called 'blitzkrieg', did not give the firer enough time to wait and let its prey approach, therefore its success on the battlefields of Europe was limited. It was last used in 1942 in the Far East.

French officer shooting the Boys.

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/6997/franchute1um.jpg

The Boys also had a Mk. 2 airborne variant, with a shorter barrel, feather-filled butt pad and some aluminium parts. However, the side effects prevented it from any kind of greater success - the short barrel turned up the volume of the already deafening report, while decreasing the penetration of the round. Fortunately by the time it came around there was However, the inter-war period saw a gradual increase in thickness of tank armour, demanding a concurrent development of anti-tank rifles.


The British designers began their work in 1934 and within two years the result of their work was complete. The callibre was .55 inch, giving the gun a mighty recoil. In attempt to reduce it, a muzzle break was another option in view, the P.I.A.T.fitted and the whole mechanism mounted into a cradle, buffered by a powerful spring. As this could not of course solve the problem completely, the butt was thickly padded in addition. The whole rifle was 63.5in or 162cm long, weighing 36 pounds or 16.3 kilograms. It was fed from a 5-round box magazine, had a muzzle velocity of 810metres per second and could puncture 21mm of armour at 200 meters.


This gun was also adquired by the URSS and the U.S.M.C (marines) wich have several succeses agaist the lesser armored japanese tanks in the Pacific.

Boys of the U.S.M.C.

http://www.usmcraiders.com/LP24.jpg


Russian Bren Carrier with the .55 ATR Kursk July 1943.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7799/brencarrierconboys3pr.jpg[URL="http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7799/brencarrierconboys3pr.jpg"] (http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3197/boys9oz.jpg)

[Panzerknacker]

Nice plate of ospreys "Men-at-Arms"

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c257/MGuastoni/brit01-1.jpg

[redcoat]

The Boys anti-tank rifle is one of those weapons which often gets mentioned in worst weapons of WW2 threads, which is quite unfair because it was one of the best anti-tank rifles of ww2.
Its problem was one which all anti-tank rifles suffered from,the large increase in armor of the tanks designed from 1938.

[Panzerknacker]

It wanst a bad gun but also was not particulary powerful until the introduction of the tugsten core ammo.


The weapon was effective to about 300 yards (300 m) as an anti-tank and anti-vehicle weapon. There were two main service loads used during WWII, the W Mark 1 (60 g AP at 747 m/s) and the W Mark 2 ammunition (47.6 g AP projectile at 884 m/s). Later in the conflict, but too late for service use, a much more effective high velocity round was developed, this fired a tungsten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten) cored Armour-Piercing, Composite Rigid (APCR) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_%28projectile%29#Armour-piercing_.28AP.29) design at 945 m/s. The W Mark 2 projectile was able to penetrate up to 3/4 inch (20 mm) of armour at 100 yards (~91 m). The armour plate inclined at 70° from the horizontal ie 20 degrees from the direct line angle of fire - the effective thickness being ~21.5 mm. Its effective range against unarmoured targets (e.g. infantry), was much further. Although useful against the early tanks, the increases in vehicle armour during WW2 left it largely ineffective for anti-tank duties and it was replaced in service by the PIAT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIAT) anti-tank weapon. It still saw some use against bunkers, machine gun nests, and lighter vehicles. In the Western Desert the large bullet could throw up splinters from rocks to cause casualties and it continued to be used in the Pacific theatre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_theatre) against Japanese tanks; the Japanese did not replace their older lightly armoured tanks, spread out across the Pacific and South East Asia, with newer ones until later in the war. The weapon had been designed with these lighter tanks in mind.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle,_Anti-Tank,_.55_in,_Boys


APC ammo:

http://www.municion.org/55boys/14x99.gif


http://www.municion.org/55boys/Wii.jpg



http://www.municion.org/55boys/55boys.htm

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5774/baoyshd0.jpg

[mrseagull]

Going back quite a few decades now..

I was working in a well known auction house, during one of the 'firearms amnesties' A chap arrived at the door, saying he was bringing in a few old guns for disposal (you were allowed to sell the things if you didn't want to just jhand them in to the police.

An interesting collection that his father had kept from Home Guard days, mostly fairly ordinary, but included was one of the above mentioned Anti tank rifles - complete with three rounds as I recall.

[Panzerknacker]

Disposal a Boys ?...too bad.

Another of the weird antitank weapons of the Home Guard.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9430/northoverey7.jpg


Extracted from enciclopedya of WW2 weapons- Chris Bishop/Barnes Noble.

[Nickdfresh]

I bet the white phosphorus bomb would have been very effective against infantry, and possibly against armor with a lucky hit...

[Man of Stoat]

Up towards the end of the war, Boys rifles were used to sink a number of German midget submarines which were running very close to the Belgian shore, a few hundred yards off it in fact. A single hit at the waterline on the conning "tower" would cause it to fill with water and sink.

Not a lot of people know that, and unfortunately I have given the magazine which recounts the story to a friend in England.

[Panzerknacker]

Interesting, another use I have read fopr this weapon is knocking out light flak mountings and their crew in the Operation Jubilee by the british commandos.

[Firefly]

I have nothing to bring to this debate except some wiki specs of the Boys, although I always though it was called the Boyes.

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2500/2577.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyes_rifle

[redcoat]

I have nothing to bring to this debate except some wiki specs of the Boys, although I always though it was called the Boyes.


No it was named in honour of a Captain Boys, who was a member of the development team, who died just before its final acceptance by the British army

[2nd of foot]

Spigot mortar

As normal looking for something else turned up the spigot AT weapon. Now having looked at the pictures I have seen the implement before but thought they were AA positions. The pivot is what stood out, as it seemed to be made of excellent steel that had not tarnished over 60 years. This was outside Apple Pie RE depot Longmoor. Look at the one below, this has been in the sea!

http://www.pillbox-study-group.org.uk/Wintertonspigotmortarbase.jpg


It would seem that it is very easily concealed and moved, but not a one man band.
http://www.brookmans.com/news/may03/spigot.jpg

http://www.staffshomeguard.co.uk/BlackerBombard.jpg

As to its effectiveness I could not say.

[Panzerknacker]

Quiet weird. It have an hollow charge.?

[Man of Stoat]

The PIAT was actually also a spigot mortar.

[spotter]

This image shows the Head of the blacker bombard 29mm spigot mortar they came in 2 sizes 14lb and 20lb.The 14lb was nose fuzed and the 20lb was base fuzed

[Gen. Sandworm]

Uhhh the PIAT........of all the things that came out of the UK during WW2........many absolutly brilliant. The PIAT has to take the taco on being the worst of things. I put in on the level of the WW1 French Cho Cho. Blah

[1000ydstare]

Oh I don't know, have you ever heard of the "Smith gun"?

Specifically designed for the Home Guard. Very wierd idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Gun

http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/smithgun-01.jpg

A smith gun in position for firing, note it has been upended on to one of the it's traveling wheels, and the tow eye on the end of the barrel. The limber carrying the ammunition is similarly upended to the rear.

http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/smithgun-02.jpg

http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/smithgun-03.jpg

same again.

http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/smithgun-05.jpg

Note the five "ready" ammunition carriers next to the barrel.

[1000ydstare]

And finally the Smith Gun in transit.

http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/smithgun-06.jpg

(Wasn't allowed to put in more than 5 pics in a post. What a load of wnak!!!!)

[Nickdfresh]

Interesting, another use I have read fopr this weapon is knocking out light flak mountings and their crew in the Operation Jubilee by the british commandos.


This was a highly effective weapon when used by special operations no doubt.

[Panzerknacker]

This image shows the Head of the blacker bombard 29mm spigot mortar they came in 2 sizes 14lb and 20lb.The 14lb was nose fuzed and the 20lb was base fuzed

It seems to be a "blast effect" only, I did not see any hollow charge in that picture.


The PIAT has to take the taco on being the worst of things.


Agree completely.

[Gen. Sandworm]

http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/smithgun-02.jpg




Caption should read "Churchill debates surrender"

LOL This thing look like a portable snow cone launcher. :D

[1000ydstare]

I always wondered how it would balance on a road given the state of its' wheels.

[Tony Williams]

It seems to be a "blast effect" only, I did not see any hollow charge in that picture.
The British preferred "squash head" shells at that time, and that seems to be one of them. The principle is that the shell walls are made very thin so that on impact the HE is spread over the target before being ignited by the base fuze. This creates a shock-wave through the armour, causing the inner surface to "scab off" and fly through the target at high velocity.

Shells of this type are still in Briitish service today, as the backup to APFSDS in the Challenger tank. The British call this type of shell HESH, the US calls it HEP (HE Plastic).

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[redcoat]

Uhhh the PIAT........of all the things that came out of the UK during WW2........many absolutly brilliant. The PIAT has to take the taco on being the worst of things. I put in on the level of the WW1 French Cho Cho. Blah
Mind you, in the hands of a determined man it would do what it was supposed to do, stop a tank ;)

[Nickdfresh]

The PIAT seemed to have been effective, if not optimal, to me...

[Panzerknacker]

The British preferred "squash head" shells at that time, and that seems to be one of them. The principle is that the shell walls are made very thin so that on impact the HE is spread over the target before being ignited by the base fuze. This creates a shock-wave through the armour, causing the inner surface to "scab off" and fly through the target at high velocity


Thanks for the info, but I think that this sistem is defeated with a high quality steel armor. Not sure about the quality of the german armor in late war ( when the plates became thicker)

[Tony Williams]

Thanks for the info, but I think that this sistem is defeated with a high quality steel armor. Not sure about the quality of the german armor in late war ( when the plates became thicker)
I don't think so: certainly the British rate this type of ammo highly (it's the main reason they've stuck to rifled barrels in their 120mm tank guns up to now), and have used it in tank v tank engagements in Iraq (sadly, on one occasion knocking out another Challenger in a "blue on blue").

Composite armour is much more likely to be effective against HESH. The luckless Challenger suffered because the shell virtually dropped down its open hatch at very long range.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[Panzerknacker]

Well, I guess that if a challenger with his advanced armor was vulnerable, a Panzer can be destroyed for sure.


2 pounder (40 mm) AT gun.

http://www.dockmuseum.org.uk/archive/images/archive/large/2698.jpg



http://www.dockmuseum.org.uk/archive/images/archive/large/4288.jpg

[BigD353]

I have recently acquired a Boys 55 AT Mk1 with both the .55 in and a .50 BMG barrels. I have the original steel magazine box (still has canvas strap), including 8 magazines.

Since I want to sell it, I'm looking for any help in determining its value, as I've never seen one before. Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,
BigD353 :cool:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/bigd353/Boys800.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/bigd353/Boys800a.jpg

[Panzerknacker]

You maybe could try sending a e-mail to the experts in this site.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/

[GermanSoldier]

There are some weird wepons. Good pictures and information.

[Panzerknacker]

Loading the PIAT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj76mfiIa34

[Panzerknacker]

Fanstastic videos of how to fire and aim the Boys .55 caliber rifle, with cartoons and all. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rODm7HF5lFU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9lIO8AL3ds


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsifcQnSv94

[2nd of foot]

An excellent find. Very good film once you are passed the first half. I am not overly keen on the unload drill I can see NDs happening.

[Nickdfresh]

Okay, when do we get to the PIAT?

[Panzerknacker]

The PIAT, not my favorite , there you have some info.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9202/piat22ee9.jpg

[Walther]

Concerning the PIAT:
A while ago I had the opportunity to handle one owned (I can't remember) either the Belgian or Dutch Army museum. While it is quite heavy and cumbersome (but weightwise in about the same class as a Bren gun), cocking it wasn't the nightmare it was described to be (abourt a year before i had another one in my hands, which unknown to me was deactivated by having the firing rod pinned and welded into position and I almost broke my back trying to cock it), it was certainly doable and I'm not Superman's brother.

Obviously the PIAT had a relative short range, about 50 meters, but the early versions of the Panzerfaust did not have more range either.
The shaped charge warhead of the PIAT was quite big though and could finish off any German tank (which was the problem with the original Bazooka, the warhead was too small, a defect only rectified with the Super Bazooka of the Korean war). It was also extensively used as a bunker buster or to take out machine gun positions, even as a makeshift mortar. The PIAT soldiered on until the Korean war, when it was replaced in the British Army by the Super Bazooka and later the Carl-Gustav.

Jan

[Dani]

Off-topic: Welcome back Jan!

[Walther]

Thanks, Dani!

Sorry I had almost a year work related internet abstinence.

Jan

[Panzerknacker]

Nº 74 grenade.

The Nº 74 Grenade (Sticky Bomb) was designed as an anti-tank grenade and was disliked by everybody who ever came across it.
The grenade consisted of a glass ball on the end of a bakelite (plastic) handle. Inside the glass ball was an explosive filling whilst on the outside was a very sticky adhesive covering. Until used, this adhesive covering was encased in a metal outer casing.

http://i15.tinypic.com/6ev9h8z.jpg

Due to the use of glass in this grenade, they were fragile and travelled badly. Quite often the glass would crack in transit, causing the explosive to start leaking out. This explosive which leaked out was not very sensitive to friction but was very sensitive to impact and detonation could occur if the exposed explosive received a blow due to careless handling.
To use the grenade, you remove the case release pin (not the pin marked 'DANGER'). This allows the metal protective casing to fall free, exposing the adhesive coating. You then grip the handle and safety lever and remove the safety pin (marked 'DANGER'). The grenade is now ready to either throw or attach to the target.

This is where the sticky bomb is most dangerous! Whilst attempting to throw it, the grenade could stick to the wearers' clothing!

If the thrower has not let go of the safety lever, he has to try and remove the item of clothing without letting go of the lever.
If the thrower has let go of the lever, he has 5 second to remove the item of clothing and get a safe distance away from the bomb.When this happened, it tended to end up stuck to the throwers' trousers - with the uniform which was worn at the time, to remove his trousers (which were held up by braces) the thrower would have to remove any equipment (belt, ammunition pouches, etc.) followed by his Battle Dress blouse (jacket). He would then have to try and take his trousers off over his boots - all in less than 5 seconds! You may ask why the thrower could not just pull the grenade off of his clothing. They could try this but the adhesive coating was designed to allow the grenade, which weighed 2¼ lbs (1 Kg), to stick to the side of a tank. Extract from training manual:

This grenade has been introduced for use against light A.F.Vs. It is designed to stick to a suitable target, thus ensuring that the high explosive has its maximum effect. The grenade will NOT stick should the surface be wet or muddy.
The grenade is suitable for use at road blocks, positions of ambush, or for dropping from upstairs windows on to tanks.
Although the effect of the explosion is localised, the thrower must take cover owing to the blast.
For night raids on tank parts, the grenade is an ideal weapon. It can be regarded as a portable demolition charge and planted by hand instead of thrown, so long as the operator retreats in such a direction that he is protected from the explosion. With practice and training, the grenade can be thrown up to about 20 yds.

http://www.home-guard.org.uk/hg/gren74.html

[redcoat]

Nº 74 grenade.

The Nº 74 Grenade (Sticky Bomb) was designed as an anti-tank grenade and was disliked by everybody who ever came across it.

the Number 74 Grenade was never used by the British army in battle, its only recorded use in combat was as a demolition device by partisans

[Panzerknacker]

Too bad, it would be interesting to see the real effect against a Pz III or IV.

[Nickdfresh]

The PIAT, not my favorite , there you have some info.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9202/piat22ee9.jpg

The Piat may "have been a load of rubbish," but in the hands of Sergeant Thorton of the 6th Airbourne Division, it was used to fire one of the most important shots of the War:

Thorton had taken his position as close to the T-intersection as he could get, because he wanted to shoot at the shortest possible distance. "And sure enough, in about three minutes, this bloody great thing appears. I was more hearing it than seeing it, in the dark; it was rattling away there, and it turned out to be a Mark IV tank coming pretty slowly...Only had two of the bombs with me. Told myself, 'you mustn't miss.' Anyhow, although I was shaking, I took an aim and bang, off it went....I him round about right bang in the middle. I made sure I had him right in the middle. I was so excited and so shaking I had to move back a bit."

Then all hell broke loose. The explosion from the Piat bomb penetrated the tank, setting off the machine-gun clips, which started setting off grenades, which started setting off shells.

From: Pegasus Bridge: June 6, 1944. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pegasus-Bridge-Daring-British-Airborne/dp/074345068X) By Stephen E. Ambrose, Simon & Schuster, 1985

His shot stopped the German armored counterattack cold as they were confused into thinking that they faced a much more powerful force...