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Nickdfresh
10-07-2006, 04:34 PM
Saturday, October 7, 2006 3:31 PM EDT
The Associated Press (http://www.adelphia.net/news/read.php?ps=1018&id=13147855&_LT=HOME_LARSDCCLM_UNEWS)
By MARIA DANILOVA

MOSCOW (AP) — A journalist who chronicled Russian military abuses against civilians in Chechnya, garnering awards and accolades from around the world, was found shot to death Saturday in her apartment building. Prosecutors believe her killing could be connected to her investigative reporting.

Anna Politkovskaya, 48, was found dead in an elevator in the building in central Moscow, police, prosecutors and a colleague said.

Prosecutors have opened a murder investigation, said Svetlana Petrenko, spokeswoman for the Moscow prosecutor's office. Investigators suspect the killing could be linked to her work, Vyacheslav Rosinsky, Moscow's first deputy prosecutor, said on state-run Rossiya television.

Rosinsky said a pistol and bullets were found at the site of the crime. The RIA-Novosti news agency, citing police officials, reported that Politkovskaya was shot twice, the second time in the head.

The ITAR-Tass news agency reported that work was under way on a composite sketch of the attacker based on footage recorded by a security camera at the building. The assailant, believed to have acted alone, wore black.

Politkovskaya was well-known for chronicling the killings, tortures and beatings of civilians by Russian servicemen in Chechnya in reports that put her on a collision course with the authorities but won her numerous international awards.

"People sometimes pay with their lives for saying out loud what they think. People can even get killed just for giving me information," Reporters Without Borders quoted her as saying at a press freedom conference in Vienna in December.

She also wrote a book critical of Russian President Vladimir Putin and his military campaign in Chechnya, documenting widespread abuse of civilians by government troops. And she was a persistent critic of Chechnya' Moscow-backed Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov, accusing his security forces of kidnapping and torturing civilians.

"Whenever the question arose whether there is honest journalism in Russia, almost every time the first name that came to mind was Politkovskaya," said Oleg Panfilov, director of the Moscow-based Center for Journalism in Extreme Situations.

He said Politkovskaya had frequently received threats, and that a few months ago, unknown assailants had tried unsuccessfully to break into a car her daughter, Vera, was driving.

In 2001, she fled to Vienna, Austria, for several months after receiving e-mail threats alleging that a Russian police officer she had accused of committing atrocities against civilians was intent on revenge. The officer, Sergei Lapin, was detained in 2002 but the case against him was closed the following year.

"There are journalists who have this fate hanging over them. I always thought something would happen to Anya, first of all because of Chechnya," Panfilov said, referring to Politkovskaya by her nickname.

Politkovskaya began reporting on Chechnya in 1999 during Russia's second military campaign there, concentrating less on military engagements than on the human side of the war. She wrote about the Chechen inhabitants of refugee camps and wounded Russian soldiers — until she was banned from visiting the hospitals, Panfilov said.

In 2004, she fell seriously ill with symptoms of food poisoning after drinking tea on a flight from Moscow to southern Russia during the school hostage crisis in Beslan. Her colleagues suspected the incident was an attempt on her life.

She was one of the few people to enter the Moscow theater where Chechen militants seized hundreds of hostages in October 2002 to try negotiating with the rebels. She later devoted much of her investigative reporting to that crisis, in which 129 victims died, the overwhelming majority succumbing to the gas used by special forces to knock out the hostage-takers.

"Anna was a hero to so many of us, and we'll miss her personally, but we'll also miss the information that she and only she was brave enough and dedicated enough to dig out and make public," said Joel Simon, executive director of the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists.

Politkovskaya's murder is the highest-profile killing of a journalist in Russia since the July 2004 slaying of Paul Klebnikov, editor of the Russian edition of Forbes magazine.

Russia has become one of the deadliest countries for journalists. Twenty-three journalists were killed in Russia between 1996 and 2005, many in Chechnya, according to the Committee to Protect Journalists. At least 12 have been murdered in contract-style killings since Putin came to power, Simon said.

"None of those have been adequately investigated," he said. "We do know that record creates an environment where those who might seek to carry out this murder would feel that there would be few likely consequences."

In addition to her daughter, Politkovskaya is survived by a son, Ilya, Panfilov said.

During her career, Polykovskaya received more than 10 awards and prizes, including an award for human rights reporting from the London-based Amnesty International; a freedom of speech award from the Paris-based watchdog Reporters Without Borders; and a journalism and democracy award from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.

Panzerknacker
10-08-2006, 12:14 PM
A suspicius crime to say the list.

Chevan
10-10-2006, 04:04 AM
Nickdfresh called this thread as:
Prominent Russian Reporter Shot to Death
Nick, for you know , she never was the russian.
She is jewish girl,and she hadn't nothing common with russian nation, except living in here. She was the tupical jewish "human rights activist", who made a cheap popularity in West because of anti-russian articles.
All times in any cases she blamed the Kremlin and russian soldiers in Chechnij.
Certainly it was a cruel things in there but especialy in 1996-1999 yy, but it's obviously Politkovskaj never was the objective:

Bandits captured the hostages - guelt the Putin
civilians were founed by killed - she blamed russian soldiers
Bandits cut of the head of russians POW's -the blamed russian officers.

Nobody considered she seriously in Russia, but in West this shit was like "mead" : the differens "international awards and prices" fell on her head like a snow in january.
She found the "briiliant way" for her carrier: "the defence of Chechens" - lives of another nationalities don't bothered her.
As the tupical example when in 1999 along the road in Chechnya were found the cut off heads of four western engineers ( 3 Britons and 1 from the New Zeland) which arrived into Chechnya on the request of the leader of the bandits of Moskhadov. Bandits didn't get for those pioples the 8 millions dollars.
Also in 2000 whan bandits cruel executed (removing on video) the 6 members of International Red Cross , who arrived to the Chechnij to treat the childrens.

So do you think our "human right activist" Politkovskaj wrote something about this ?
Noway ,because nobody in west not pay money for this "True" and her bandist-friend don't like this too.

Just her jewish friend-oligarh Berezovskij ( also known as chechen's bandits sponsor) from comfortable London like to use simular method - blame in everything the Kremlin.( but just when this bas..ds openly call to capture the power in Russia this becomes inconvenient for the British Government)
Its extremely amazing, Where the jews could be the good friend of islam extremists? (Certainly not in Israel)
Easy to answer - in Russia.

When Israel cruel bombing the Lebanon children - 51 victims, our jewish "human right activists" Politkovskaj keep the silent. ( She was too busy, writing the next the "Putin-undressed article"). Its obvious for her, lives of Lebanon civilians are nothing common with a "great fight for human rights". Her behavior during the last Israel agreession was a tupical zionists-solidarity silent.


Certainly this cruel killing of women - worst act.
Who did kill her - is interesting question.
To blame the Kremlin is stupidly.
In killing the Politkovskaj, Putin will be first , who would "main
suspected" and certainly he will get the strong critic from the "international society" ( He already got the problems from the Gorge Bush during last phone talk).
Also Ramzan Kadirov ( chechen prime-minister) not so stupid to order kill her.
Those who kill the Politkovskaj tryed to cause the problems for the Putin.

This is obvious anti-Putin's act.

So who sponsored this cruel murder - may be we will learn sometimes.

Firefly
10-10-2006, 12:02 PM
Chevan, I'm getting mighty bored and annoyed with your linking of every topic to a Great Jewish conspiracy.

Kovalski
10-10-2006, 12:20 PM
Come on Firefly, haven't you seen all these people at her funeral?
Hundreds of jewish conspirators! ;)

Sneaksie
10-10-2006, 12:31 PM
She PRed herself by anything, even by blaming Putin in killing Beslan kids. Now her 'colleagues' are making their PR by HER death. For example, Kasparov, famous chess champion and lead Putin-hater, wrote an article about her death in Wall Street Journal, where he mentioned her 2 times and mentioned Putin 10 times. A fitting end for specialist of black PR.

Firefly
10-10-2006, 04:01 PM
She PRed herself by anything, even by blaming Putin in killing Beslan kids. Now her 'colleagues' are making their PR by HER death. A fitting end for specialist of black PR.

I see you Russians have come along way from the old days then? You really think she deserved to be murdered then? So much for the New Russia! I sincerely believe that you do not speak for the majority, because if you do I dont hold out much hope for democracy in your country.

Dani
10-10-2006, 04:25 PM
A fitting end for specialist of black PR.
My bold

Some quotation from an interview to The Guardian back in 2004:



The Bush-Blair "war on terror" has been of enormous help to Putin, Politkovskaya says. Many people in Russia gained perverse comfort from the pictures of US abuses in Abu Ghraib prison. "I've heard it many times. In Russia you hear people talking about it with pride: that, 'We treated the blacks like this before the Americans did, and we were right, because they are international terrorists.'
My bold.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/women/story/0,,1327791,00.html

So actually she was right, wasn't she? Most of the Russians thinks so racist?

...And the link provided might be a good reading. Obviously not for Chevan and Sneaksie of course. By the way mates! How comes that each time Chevan posts some racist comments, Sneaksie pops-up instantly? Are you telepats, are you twins, use some e-mail alerts or buzz-ing on messenger services?:D

Dani
10-10-2006, 04:33 PM
Nickdfresh called this thread as:
Prominent Russian Reporter Shot to Death
Nick, for you know , she never was the russian.


Indeed she never was a Russian. She was born from Ukrainian parents.;)

Back to topic now. What's your opinion about independent media in nowadays Russia? Deserves they to express their views or should be send to gulags in Syberia?

Panzerknacker
10-10-2006, 06:11 PM
What's your opinion about independent media in nowadays Russia?

I like the firm grasp of Putin with the terrorist but I think the "independent" media is pretty screw today.

And by the Way, in my country Buenos Aires have the third jewish population in the worlds after the cities of Tel Aviv and New York, and they are argentines according to my point of view. :roll:

Chevan
10-11-2006, 02:53 AM
Chevan, I'm getting mighty bored and annoyed with your linking of every topic to a Great Jewish conspiracy.
Firefly, please , where i did say about "conspiracy".
. But if you would , can easy convince that in Russia isn't any conspirancy today. May be in Scotland is it?
And i always will talk what i think as russian , even if it annoyed you.
I am don't wish the evil for the any others nations in the world, but when i listen as the tupical jew named as russian, i willn't be silent.


I see you Russians have come along way from the old days then?

You see the.. old days ...?
How a long time ago did you test the eyesight on doctor ;) :)


You really think she deserved to be murdered then?

Nobody deserve to be murdered for the articles. She deserved the relation to her because of her anti-russian articles( she never bordered the fate the russians who was killed by bandits). She was the POLITICAL loudhailer of Chechen bandits.


I sincerely believe that you do not speak for the majority, because if you do I dont hold out much hope for democracy in your country.

Be sure, i express the modern russian oppinion.( i have a discuss on the russian forum). And please , Firefly, don't worry for "our democraty" - it's look cynicaly.
Democraty is the firstly the freedom of speech , and i have the full right to say anthing what i think ( exept the call to agreession to the another peoples) .
Fu..k this democraty , if i'm as russian must listen jewish rusofobs (in Russia !!!!!) and can't to answer them ...

Sneaksie
10-11-2006, 03:03 AM
I see you Russians have come along way from the old days then? You really think she deserved to be murdered then? So much for the New Russia! I sincerely believe that you do not speak for the majority, because if you do I dont hold out much hope for democracy in your country.

Where did i say that?
Her death is actually harmful to Russia (every anti-Russian and anti-Putin journalist popped up and started crying about independent media in Russia), she should be cared for - an excellent proof of freedom of speech in Russia with her shitloads of crap she poured on Putin and Russia. She was used by anti-Russian forces her entire life and is used now even after death for another outcry campaign. It amuses me another time (after Hodorkovsky case) what in fact shitty people thought about as kinda altruist heroes by western media. She used Beslan case for PRing herself for example, claiming that Russian secret service poisoned her to not let her save the children. She received more than $150000 from various foreign organisations. She and her colleagues make a fortune by sucking grants from western organisattions for 'building a democracy'. And now she is even hero, cool. While she was alive, nobody in Russia listen to her seriously. If you don't believe me, read Moris Druon (famous French author and journalist) articles, for example in 'Figaro' newspaper, where he writes about media in Russia and specifically about her. Maybe then you'll understand.

Dani
I do not understand connection between your 'bolds'. In case you misunderstood me, 'black PR' means dirty methods of propaganda including everything to make an opponent look like dirt. As guru of propaganda Dr. Hoebbels said, 'People would believe a lie only if it would be a lie of monstrous proportions'.


What's your opinion about independent media in nowadays Russia? Deserves they to express their views or should be send to gulags in Syberia?
There are plenty of media in Russia which are not state property. Problem is, many of them thought that freedom of speech means freedom of slander. They were wrong. You can not imagine how widespread actually is fight for money from western organisations in 'independent' or 'free media', how they like to call themselves. Each such media tries to shout louder than others about Putin authoritarism, pressure on free journalists and such stuff to look more 'democratic' to receive more money from western organisations than others.


I like the firm grasp of Putin with the terrorist but I think the "independent" media is pretty screw today.
Rights of indie media are not oppressed. All shouting about oppressing comes from people who make fortunes by sucking money from western organisations.
Anybody who actually lives in Russia would tell you that, but problem is, it seems that majority of people from this forum would say that we are all brainwashed, or work in KGB, or anything similar.

Chevan
10-11-2006, 04:26 AM
My bold

So actually she was right, wasn't she? Most of the Russians thinks so racist?

You will see the racist in the mirror , Dani



...And the link provided might be a good reading. Obviously not for Chevan and Sneaksie of course. By the way mates!

be modest Dani, express more correctly ,please like: "By the way Firefly"


How comes that each time Chevan posts some racist comments, Sneaksie pops-up instantly?

And how comes that each time whan i try to critic the jewish point you or somebody else blame as Nazi ( or the racist) May be you think that all the jews don't make the mistakes. And everybody who don't agree with them are the racist ( is you logic?)
I told for other our member that Politkovskaj was the jew ( it absolutly true) just becouse they could to see the motives of rusofobia in her articles.
It's insulting for the memory of russians ( and not only russian) peoples who died in fight against terrorism , whan her name the "Russain", becouse it's lie, she never feeled as russian, never worred about real russians, just politic PR.


Are you telepats, are you twins, use some e-mail alerts or buzz-ing on messenger services?:D
We are not telepats , we're just the russians ( could it be worst for you?)
And inspite of some defference the points we always has own national oppinion (which could be different from the other point).
And your pitiful attempts to name us as the "racist" is just because you can't to think objectivly, without the stereotypes ( or because you the jew)

Nickdfresh
10-11-2006, 05:04 AM
My bold

Some quotation from an interview to The Guardian back in 2004:

My bold.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/women/story/0,,1327791,00.html

So actually she was right, wasn't she? Most of the Russians thinks so racist?

...And the link provided might be a good reading. Obviously not for Chevan and Sneaksie of course. By the way mates! How comes that each time Chevan posts some racist comments, Sneaksie pops-up instantly? Are you telepats, are you twins, use some e-mail alerts or buzz-ing on messenger services?:D

The must be using the PM function at Stormfront.org.

Nickdfresh
10-11-2006, 05:11 AM
Firefly, please , where i did say about "conspiracy".
. But if you would , can easy convince that in Russia isn't any conspirancy today. May be in Scotland is it?
And i always will talk what i think as russian , even if it annoyed you.
I am don't wish the evil for the any others nations in the world, but when i listen as the tupical jew named as russian, i willn't be silent.

She's Ukrainian, and are you this prejudiced towards everybody?


You see the.. old days ...?
How a long time ago did you test the eyesight on doctor ;) :)

You sound more like some Germans circa 1937...


Nobody deserve to be murdered for the articles. She deserved the relation to her because of her anti-russian articles( she never bordered the fate the russians who was killed by bandits). She was the POLITICAL loudhailer of Chechen bandits.

Oh, so she didn't condemn Chechen terror? And what about the other 43 or so Journalists that have been killed in the last ten years? the gov'ts shocking incompetence at catching the murderers? and the fact that Russia is the third most dangerous nation on earth for journalists?


Be sure, i express the modern russian oppinion.( i have a discuss on the russian forum). And please , Firefly, don't worry for "our democraty" - it's look cynicaly.
Democraty is the firstly the freedom of speech , and i have the full right to say anthing what i think ( exept the call to agreession to the another peoples) .
Fu..k this democraty , if i'm as russian must listen jewish rusofobs (in Russia !!!!!) and can't to answer them ...

LOL You deserve to live in the unstable, backward land with statements like that...

Firefly
10-11-2006, 05:14 AM
Guys, the very fact that you are debating whether or not this woman should have been doing the kind of reporting she did means that you havent yet reached your countries goal yet.

As for the Jewish statements, I have noticed that you Russian guys mention it quite often in your posts.

And before you start in on me, I can assure you I have no beef either way. I dont personally know any Russians/Jews/Muslims etc. I do know what Democracy is though.

Nickdfresh
10-11-2006, 05:19 AM
Guys, the very fact that you are debating whether or not this woman should have been doing the kind of reporting she did means that you havent yet reached your countries goal yet.

As for the Jewish statements, I have noticed that you Russian guys mention it quite often in your posts.

And before you start in on me, I can assure you I have no beef either way. I dont personally know any Russians/Jews/Muslims etc. I do know what Democracy is though.


And I know democracy certainly does not mean this:



Chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0610080354oct08,1,6246571.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed)
By Alex Rodriguez
Tribune foreign correspondent
Published October 8, 2006

Russia remains one of the most dangerous places for journalists. In the six years that Russian President Vladimir Putin has been in power, 12 journalists have been the victims of contract killings, according to the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists. In all, 23 journalists have been killed in Russia between 1996 and 2005.

Gen. Sandworm
10-11-2006, 06:26 AM
Guys, the very fact that you are debating whether or not this woman should have been doing the kind of reporting she did means that you havent yet reached your countries goal yet

As for the Jewish statements, I have noticed that you Russian guys mention it quite often in your posts.

And before you start in on me, I can assure you I have no beef either way. I dont personally know any Russians/Jews/Muslims etc. I do know what Democracy is though.

I do know some Russians and Muslims however:

I agree with FF on this............these circular debates are getting quite annoying. :evil:

Lancer44
10-11-2006, 06:37 AM
I think Chevan doesn't really understand that his "anti Jewish" remarks can enrage some people. If anyone is against Jews, he is also against Puertoricans, Blacks, Mexicans, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians etc...
This is how we can understand it.
So I don't really like his remarks.

But at the end of the day, Chevan and his Russian Interior Ministry mentor Sneaksie, have some right...some merit...

Why Al Quida member which planted roadside IED in Iraq, blasted US Army Bradley and killed few GIs is veeeery baaaad, but Al Quida member in Chechnya which planted exactly the same IED, blasted Russian BWP-2 and killed few Russian soldiers is a FREEDOM FIGHTER?

Anyone can explain it to me?

Few days ago Russian Foreign Minister visited Warsaw. Before his visit, during press conference, one of the journalists asked Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman about official support of Poland for Chechen rebels.
An idiot spokesman answered that support for Chechens has got nothing to do with Poland's relations with Russia...

Next day Russian Embassy send letter to Polish FM asking why Poland as a NATO member is interfering in Russia's territorial integrity.

And Russians were right!

Just imagine if Amish community in Pennnsylvania would start to gather weapons, fight with US federal troops, kill local FBI agents and demand independence.
What would happen?

Can we start discussion now without mentioning Jewish conspiracy?

Chevan, I know your family is religious, you are christened, try to think that we are all Jews just like Jesus Christ.
Anyway, you never know what your great grandma was doing when your great grandpa was busy...

Cheers,

Lancer44

Dani
10-11-2006, 09:09 AM
Dani
I do not understand connection between your 'bolds'. In case you misunderstood me, 'black PR' means dirty methods of propaganda including everything to make an opponent look like dirt.

Apologies then.

Dani
10-11-2006, 09:33 AM
You will see the racist in the mirror , Dani

be modest Dani, express more correctly ,please like: "By the way Firefly"

And how comes that each time whan i try to critic the jewish point you or somebody else blame as Nazi ( or the racist) May be you think that all the jews don't make the mistakes. And everybody who don't agree with them are the racist ( is you logic?)
I told for other our member that Politkovskaj was the jew ( it absolutly true) just becouse they could to see the motives of rusofobia in her articles.
It's insulting for the memory of russians ( and not only russian) peoples who died in fight against terrorism , whan her name the "Russain", becouse it's lie, she never feeled as russian, never worred about real russians, just politic PR.

We are not telepats , we're just the russians ( could it be worst for you?)
And inspite of some defference the points we always has own national oppinion (which could be different from the other point).
And your pitiful attempts to name us as the "racist" is just because you can't to think objectivly, without the stereotypes ( or because you the jew)

I'll tell you for the last time.
Respect the rules of this board. Don't respect and you'll be warned and end banned.

The users also agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, racist, xenophobic, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate applicable laws. Doing so may lead to the authors of such posts being immediately and permanently banned (and their service provider being informed).
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1952
Is that clear or I have to spell it louder?

As for my "pitiful attempts" I think that the staff of this board may judge when, where or if are some racist posts, comments, remarks. Clear?

Thirdly: for your information (even if you should find already in the 2005 archive) I am Catholic.

Dani
10-11-2006, 09:42 AM
But at the end of the day, Chevan and his Russian Interior Ministry mentor Sneaksie, have some right...some merit...

Why Al Quida member which planted roadside IED in Iraq, blasted US Army Bradley and killed few GIs is veeeery baaaad, but Al Quida member in Chechnya which planted exactly the same IED, blasted Russian BWP-2 and killed few Russian soldiers is a FREEDOM FIGHTER?

Anyone can explain it to me?


Lancer, you know already the answer. It's the same answer throughout the history (not only in 20 and 21st centuries).

Dani
10-11-2006, 09:47 AM
[...]every anti-Russian and anti-Putin journalist popped up and started crying about independent media in Russia
My bold
Sneaksie, since when if somebody is anti-Putin obviously he must be anti-Russian? Or maybe it's once again a misunderstanding?:D
Please enlight me!

Nickdfresh
10-11-2006, 11:48 AM
I think Chevan doesn't really understand that his "anti Jewish" remarks can enrage some people. If anyone is against Jews, he is also against Puertoricans, Blacks, Mexicans, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians etc...
This is how we can understand it.
So I don't really like his remarks.

But at the end of the day, Chevan and his Russian Interior Ministry mentor Sneaksie, have some right...some merit...

Why Al Quida member which planted roadside IED in Iraq, blasted US Army Bradley and killed few GIs is veeeery baaaad, but Al Quida member in Chechnya which planted exactly the same IED, blasted Russian BWP-2 and killed few Russian soldiers is a FREEDOM FIGHTER?

Anyone can explain it to me?

Mate, I can only speak for myself. I post at a site dedicated to a "Jewish" ;) rock star, and have posted more than one thread in the politcal forum attacking the terrorists in Chechnya, including a celebratory thread when Basayev (Belsan school mastermind) was killed by Russian Intell. Nobody has glorified the Chechen terrorists, which U.S. and NATO troops have also fought, and killed, in Afghanistan.

Nobody has any sympathies for them. The problem I have is that pro-gov't Chechen security forces and the Russian paramilitaries/Army have a documented track record of making people disappear --of using death squads to abduct & extra-judicially kill their opponents. And I don't defend US actions in Iraq either, which is essentially supporting a Shia gov't doing the same.


Few days ago Russian Foreign Minister visited Warsaw. Before his visit, during press conference, one of the journalists asked Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman about official support of Poland for Chechen rebels.
An idiot spokesman answered that support for Chechens has got nothing to do with Poland's relations with Russia...

Next day Russian Embassy send letter to Polish FM asking why Poland as a NATO member is interfering in Russia's territorial integrity.

And Russians were right!

Just imagine if Amish community in Pennsylvania would start to gather weapons, fight with US federal troops, kill local FBI agents and demand independence.
What would happen?

You know that's not the same thing. The Chechen are culturally distinct, and have been dominated by Russians in various insurrections since the Tsars, whereas the Amish settled in Pennsylvania and actually live side-by-side with other Americans. And the US Federal gov't has cracked down on NeoNazis and the Branch Dividians actually. Nobody is happy with those results either (innocent people killed in the crossfires') Again, I in no way "support" Chechen terrorists that murder school children.


Can we start discussion now without mentioning Jewish conspiracy?

If only there weren't always some other conspiracy to blame. Maybe someday people can admit that their gov'ts are often dishonest, have made terrible errors, or , and not fight over every detail using denials and lunatic conspiracy theories. But this is the internet...


Chevan, I know your family is religious, you are christened, try to think that we are all Jews just like Jesus Christ.
Anyway, you never know what your great grandma was doing when your great grandpa was busy...

Cheers,

Lancer44

Ha ha! :D

Or you never know if your great-great-great grandfather "converted" in order to be saved. Many German soldiers that honestly thought themselves Christian found this out in WWII actually, when their long-lost Jewish heritage was traced by psychotic officers of the Gestapo.

Chevan
10-11-2006, 01:39 PM
OK, come back to the Politkovskaj

She's Ukrainian, and are you this prejudiced towards everybody?

Nick,i NEVER WROTE ANYTHING WITHOUT THE CONFIRMATION
Specialy for you and Dani:
Official Russian Jewish Site www.sem40.ru called she as the jwish girl:


...those arre the activists from the "memorial", people from The sakharovskogo center, participants and the activists of human rights organizations, the members of Russian Pen- Club, soldier mothers, human rights activist Sergey Kovalev, some daring deputies of the Duma: Nemtsov, Yavlinskiy, some journalists - it is certain, Anna Politkovskaya. ...

note: The Names of Jews in thiste are marked with blue colour


another source:


book of Josef Molare :"Jewish world in the calendar of history"
http://www.rjews.net/gazeta/Lib/briman/021031-briman.shtml

....However, during the first day Yuri Luzhkov reported the demand of the terrorists: they not will talk with the Russian truce bearers. ...
. The talks between Islamic martyrs and orthodox Moscow conducted through the peoples of Jewish origin. Let us calculate: Kobzon, Nemtsov, Khakamada (jewess according to the mom), doctors Roshal, woman journalist Anna Politkovskaya ... . All negotiators were Jews!

I know she was born in USA in famaly of ukrainian diplomats.
But the jews themself called her as the jewish girl.
So gentlemens , do somebody want to say that jews are lie and named Politkovskaj as the Ukrainian ;)



Oh, so she didn't condemn Chechen terror? And what about the other 43 or so Journalists that have been killed in the last ten years? the gov'ts shocking incompetence at catching the murderers? and the fact that Russia is the third most dangerous nation on earth for journalists?

I told you already thet the reason of Blody illegality (killing the peoples and jornalists) was the "Yeltsin command" doing sinse 1992. And certainly with comming of Putin in 2000 the situation could change the rapidly ( slowly but its changed today)


LOL You deserve to live in the unstable, backward land with statements like that...
poor Nick, I'm forced to distress you ;)
According the forecast of the economists( by the way western) Russia will expect economic increase up 8-10% per year during 2007-2015.( also like and China and South-Eastern asia at all).
I would be live in "unstable, backward land" as you wish but i can't, sorry . I'm doomed to live in the being revived powerfull country. :)

Chevan
10-11-2006, 02:01 PM
I'll tell you for the last time.
Respect the rules of this board. Don't respect and you'll be warned and end banned.

Dani you are very interesting person.
Whan Nickdfres poster about "Russian jornalists" i just correct him and explain my point why she was not objective ( and called some examples with murdering of western sitizents by bandits).
Tell me please did i called the jews ( as nation) the worst words?
And what you did?


So actually she was right, wasn't she? Most of the Russians thinks so racist?

You mean "all the russian" as the racists?( i.e. me and Sneaksie)
You forgot about rules of forum, or may be you think this rules not for you?



Thirdly: for your information (even if you should find already in the 2005 archive) I am Catholic.
No i don't read the arhive, OK thank's Dani.
May be i was to sharp to the jews , i have noting against them as the people.

In any case this cruel killing was the crime agains Russia ( agree with Sneaksie)

Dani
10-11-2006, 11:17 PM
So actually she was right, wasn't she? Most of the Russians thinks so racist?
You mean "all the russian" as the racists?( i.e. me and Sneaksie)
You forgot about rules of forum, or may be you think this rules not for you?

Read once again my post there, Sneaksie's reply and my apologies after.
Nothing more to explain.

Nickdfresh
10-12-2006, 05:26 AM
OK, come back to the Politkovskaj

Nick,i NEVER WROTE ANYTHING WITHOUT THE CONFIRMATION
Specialy for you and Dani:
Official Russian Jewish Site www.sem40.ru called she as the jwish girl:


another source:

I know she was born in USA in famaly of ukrainian diplomats.
But the jews themself called her as the jewish girl.
So gentlemens , do somebody want to say that jews are lie and named Politkovskaj as the Ukrainian ;)

That's not the point. The point is that you keep focusing on the fact that she is Jewish as if it has a greater meaning, as if that means she was part of some Jewish media conspiracy you seem so upset about --that you've basically stated you think exists indicative in some of your previous posting.

Were the 'oligarchs' that controlled the Russian media at one time Jewish? Are there any Russian Orthodox conspiracies?



I told you already thet the reason of Blody illegality (killing the peoples and jornalists) was the "Yeltsin command" doing sinse 1992. And certainly with comming of Putin in 2000 the situation could change the rapidly ( slowly but its changed today)

The facts clearly don't bear that out...


poor Nick, I'm forced to distress you ;)
According the forecast of the economists( by the way western) Russia will expect economic increase up 8-10% per year during 2007-2015.( also like and China and South-Eastern asia at all).
I would be live in "unstable, backward land" as you wish but i can't, sorry . I'm doomed to live in the being revived powerfull country. :)

Well, I'm happy Russia's economy will supposedly boom. But I thought you yearned for the "good old days" of Communism...

Nickdfresh
10-12-2006, 05:11 PM
October 12, 2006
Slain Reporter’s Last Story Bares Chechen Torture
By C. J. CHIVERS

MOSCOW, Oct. 12 — The Novaya Gazeta newspaper today published the last article of its slain special correspondent, Anna Politkovskaya, and posted images from videoptapes she had obtained of Chechens being tortured.

The article, a column that presented new allegations of torture by government security forces, appeared on the same day the European Court of Human Rights issued a ruling holding Russia responsible for the executions by Russian police officers of 5 Chechen civilians in early 2000.

The victims of that incident included a one-year-old boy and his young mother, who was eight months pregnant. All of the victims were shot, and the mother’s jewelry was stolen, the court said.

The article also appeared as the federal prosecutor’s office in Grozny, the capital of Chechnya, said it was checking into reports of the disappearance of another prominent Chechen — the mother of the last wife of Shamil Basayev, the terrorist leader who died in an explosion in June.

The woman, Rita Ersenoyeva, has been missing since Oct. 2, human rights workers say, and had spent the last several weeks searching for her daughter, who had been kidnapped as well — after what her mother had described as a forced marriage to the terrorist leader.

Mr. Politkovskaya, one of Russia’s most well known journalists and human rights advocates, was fatally shot on Oct. 7, the victim of an apparent contract killing. Today’s events together served as a sort of coda on her life, reminders of the lingering chaos and human cost of the war in Chechnya, a conflict Russia insists has been won.

Ms. Politkovskaya, 48, was a leader among the shrinking group of Russian journalists who dared to keep challenging that thinking, by writing frankly about the violence and disorder in the republic. Chechnya, her work said, remains a place where open fighting has slowed but murky police and military operations continue, and chilling behavior by Russian forces and the Kremlin’s proxies is a dark norm.

Her final article, under the headline “We Declare You A Terrorist,’’ presented allegations of the use of torture to exact confessions and manufacture good news from the war.

“When prosecutors and the courts work, not for the sake of the law, but on political commission and with the only goal of providing good reports for the Kremlin, then criminal cases are baked like pancakes,” Ms. Politkovskaya wrote. “An assembly line producing ‘open-hearted confessions’ effectively guarantees good data on the war on terror.”

She asked: “Are we, the lawful, fighting against the unlawful? Or are we battling ‘their’ lawlessness with ‘ours?’

The article described the case of Beslan Gadayev, a Chechen migrant deported from Ukraine to Chechnya, where he claimed in a letter to Ms. Politkovskaya that he was asked if he had committed certain unsolved murders.

When he said he had not, he wrote, he was punched near the eye, beaten, tied up, handcuffed, hung from a pipe and then connected to electric cable, whose current was switched on. In time he confessed, he said, and the next day was told to confess again in front of journalists, and to say his injuries were the result of an escape attempt.

The article was also accompanied by images from videos that Ms. Politkovskaya had obtained of an armed Chechen —presumably a member of the Chechen armed forces, her newspaper said — torturing at least one man.

Not long after the newspaper was published this morning, the European Court of Human Rights released a unanimous decision blaming Russia for the deaths of five members of the Estamirov family in Grozny in early 2000, a period when Russian forces had just wrested control of the capital from separatists.

It also found the Russia had failed to adequately investigate the killings, which were part of a sweep operation that Human Rights Watch, the American-based organization, investigated and called a massacre.

At least 60 civilians were killed, shot at close range, human rights workers said, apparently by enraged police units from St. Petersburg and Ryazan who were looting the neighborhood.

Nobody has ever been charged for the crimes. The court today ordered Russia to pay about 230,000 euros — $289,OOO — in damages to the victims’ relatives.

Ole Solvang, director of the Stitchting Russian Justice Initiative, a private organization that has helped survivors of the Chechen war seek justice in the European Court, said the evidence showed that the deaths were deliberate. For example, he said, the slain year-old boy, Khasan Estamirov, was shot multiple times at close range. At least one shot was to the head.

“They just went completely nuts that day,” Mr. Solvang said. “It was horrible.”

Russia, which earlier this year also was found responsible by the court for the summary execution of a young Ingush fighter at about the same time, made no comment on the case. It has three months to appeal.

Later in the day, Valery Kuznetsov, the top federal prosecutor in Chechnya, said by telephone that his office was looking into reports of the abduction of Ms. Ersenoyeva, the mother-in-law of the man who was once Russia’s most feared terrorist leader.Kidnappings, both to gain ransom and to kill suspected rebels and their supporters, have been a part of life in Chechnya for more than a decade. Human rights groups say Russian forces or Chechens loyal to the Kremlin premier are often responsible.

Ms. Ersenoyeva disappeared on Oct. 2 after being summoned by telephone to an administration building in the village of Stariye Atagi, according to Tanya Lokshina, chairwoman of Center Demos, a human rights groups. Neither Ms. Lokshina nor Mr. Kuznetsov said they had found witnesses to the abduction.

But Ms. Ersenoyeva has not been heard from since she left for the meeting, Ms. Lokshina said, adding that Ms. Ersenoyeva had left eagerly after a caller told her that they had good news about her daughter, who in August had vanished as well, after gunmen seized her from the street.


Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/12/world/europe/12cnd-chechnya.html?hp&ex=1160712000&en=8821d87240ba83bd&ei=5094&partner=homepage)