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Stahler
10-03-2006, 11:21 AM
Hi Folks,

in may 1944 the Reichssicherheitshauptamt recomended german industrials to withdraw their cash from german enterprises and invest in american bonds. Did the SS know that american property in germany would not be bombed,eg the Ford facilities in cologne?
I know that 4 cities in germany were excluded from the bombing two of them were Heidelberg and Hameln so i mean not this cities.

Any feedback?

Greetings Stahler

pdf27
10-03-2006, 12:26 PM
Nope. The USAAF and RAF were technically incapable of missing US industrial facilities if they tried. Furthermore, failing to target the cities they were in would lengthen the war, costing them far more than the facilities were worth. It's typical conspiracy theory bullshit from those who want to believe the Americans are behind all the evil in the world.

Chevan
10-03-2006, 01:42 PM
Well, well, well. Thank Stahler, interesting and very characteristic information.
I read about this early, but i never see the confirmation.
Evidently ,not just comrade Stalin look to the "liberation" of Germany with pragmatical points , but and his American partners.


... It's typical conspiracy theory bullshit from those who want to believe the Americans are behind all the evil in the world.

Poor americans , they developed its own perfect the theory according which all the evil in the word appeared from the Russia or the Germany, but somebody doubt in this popular theory. ;) :)

Nickdfresh
10-03-2006, 02:49 PM
Well, well, well. Thank Stahler, interesting and very characteristic information.
I read about this early, but i never see the confirmation.
Evidently ,not just comrade Stalin look to the "liberation" of Germany with pragmatical points , but and his American partners.

Poor americans , they developed its own perfect the theory according which all the evil in the word appeared from the Russia or the Germany, but somebody doubt in this popular theory. ;) :)


While there were certainly American companies that made money in Germany, and in the Soviet Union BTW; as PDF27 stated, it's typical conspiracy horseshit with no real evidence, a way of attempting to say the Americans weren't really much better than the Nazis. And if Ford were in bed with the Nazis, then what do you make of all the production the company output to fight them? Ford, and all other U.S. companies made a hell of a lot more money fighting the Germans then they ever did colluding with them.

And Chevan, no seriously informed person in his or her right mind believes that any evil originated from one or two single sources. Many Germans and Russians were as much victims, if not more so, of those horrors as anybody else.

Dani
10-03-2006, 03:17 PM
in may 1944 the Reichssicherheitshauptamt recomended german industrials to withdraw their cash from german enterprises and invest in american bonds.
Any source?


Did the SS know that american property in germany would not be bombed,eg the Ford facilities in cologne?
I know that 4 cities in germany were excluded from the bombing two of them were Heidelberg and Hameln so i mean not this cities.

Any feedback?
Any source?

Chevan
10-04-2006, 12:26 AM
While there were certainly American companies that made money in Germany, and in the Soviet Union BTW; as PDF27 stated, it's typical conspiracy horseshit with no real evidence, a way of attempting to say the Americans weren't really much better than the Nazis. And if Ford were in bed with the Nazis, then what do you make of all the production the company output to fight them? Ford, and all other U.S. companies made a hell of a lot more money fighting the Germans then they ever did colluding with them.

I know, certainly that American "isolationism" was e very convenient for a "making money". When it prodused a profit , it possible to "lie to the bed" with everybody: Nazi or Japanes.
But your right, this is absolutly didn't prevent to make a money for them in USA govenrnmemt's order.
Just simple capitalism , with single principle "Money is not smell" ;)


And Chevan, no seriously informed person in his or her right mind believes that any evil originated from one or two single sources. Many Germans and Russians were as much victims, if not more so, of those horrors as anybody else.
Easy Nick, i just kidding
pdf began it , and me supported :);)

Stahler
10-04-2006, 01:05 PM
Hi Folks,

my intention was not to say all evil is comming from one corner. My meaning was why where these guys who where responsibel for the non bombing of the Ford werke not put to jail. They where responsible for the death of allied soldiers.
In september 1945 an statement by the US Army said that 60% of the transport capacity for the Wehrmacht was made in Köln.
It was only bombed on 15. und 18. Oktober 1944 and these attacks hit the barracks of the laborers. Francizek Wojcikowski, gave an eye wittnes account that the 85 planes flew so low that they would not hit the Ford works.
http://www.nadir.org/nadir/archiv/Antifaschismus/Themen/Zwangsarbeit/ZwangFord.html
This source is german of course.
»The plant was undamaged by bombs or shell fire and is in excellent condition«.
Reinhold Billstein/Eberhard Illner, You are now in Cologne. Compliments. Köln 1945 in den Augen der Sieger, Köln 1995
Also look at Wikipedia about Ford and the Nazis.

Also take a look at Elsa ivanova against Ford.Elsa Ivanova was represented by a lawyer called Melvyn Weiss.

By the way the Ford Werke in antwerp made a contract in april 1945 to produce 4000 trucks for the pacific war. The most damage was done during V1 attacks. After the liberation the production soared. Under german rule the produced around 10 trucks per day, this was known by english inteligence.

My source for the mai 1944 will i meet tomorrow. During a guided tour in hameln the guide mentioned this that 4 cities where spared for historical
purposes.

So to make clear: It is the money over allied lives done by americans that disturbed me.

Stahler

pdf27
10-04-2006, 02:36 PM
Poor americans , they developed its own perfect the theory according which all the evil in the word appeared from the Russia or the Germany, but somebody doubt in this popular theory. ;) :)
Nope, broadly similar levels of evil people appear in each country. The difference is that Russia and Germany were unfortunate enough to have said evil bast***s come into power during the first half of the 20th century, while places like the US and UK have been spared this.
Furthermore, I would note that a number of people I consider similarly evil have existed in a number of other countries in positions of power. Cambodia, China and Uganda are very obvious examples.

Nickdfresh
10-04-2006, 04:43 PM
I know, certainly that American "isolationism" was e very convenient for a "making money". When it prodused a profit , it possible to "lie to the bed" with everybody: Nazi or Japanes.
But your right, this is absolutly didn't prevent to make a money for them in USA govenrnmemt's order.
Just simple capitalism , with single principle "Money is not smell" ;)

Easy Nick, i just kidding
pdf began it , and me supported :);)



LOL Cheers

Firefly
10-06-2006, 03:30 PM
Getting back to the topic, and I am remis for this, I visit another forum where this was discussed with examples. In one instance a Germaqn subsidiary company of a US one actually sued the US Govt after the war for damages done and won the case. It was documented and I will continue to look for the thread, but the damned website doesnt have a search facility so it may take some time.

Chevan
10-09-2006, 07:23 AM
Getting back to the topic, and I am remis for this, I visit another forum where this was discussed with examples. In one instance a Germaqn subsidiary company of a US one actually sued the US Govt after the war for damages done and won the case. It was documented and I will continue to look for the thread, but the damned website doesnt have a search facility so it may take some time.
OK , Firefly . That's correct note


.....When Britain declared war in 1939, American businessmen rushed into Germany in order to have time to fill the formed investment vacuum.
Henry Ford sent the copy of its antisemitic pamphlets to Hitler, who entrusted to his their guests in Berkhtesgadene. Other companies, such as of "General Motors" and "Dupon", the had old connections with the third Reich, also proposed their services. The largest business bank of Sweden during World War II governed the family of Vallenberg.
On the assertion of the Dutch authors Dzherarda Aldersa is Siz Vaybs, this bank "helped" Nazi Germany to place gold and treasures, taken from the killed Jews". Furthermore, "brothers Vallenberg appeared as the dummies for masking the foreign daughterly firms from the German companies, connected with the Hitler regime".
These authors "traced the calculations, which Vallenbergi helped to open as the cover of the daughterly companies "Bosh "," I.G. Farben ", "Krupp" and other German corporations, created in order to avoid the confiscation of active memberships by the governments of country- allies". They write that according to secret agreement the German corporations had at the end of war the right of the ransom of their companies.

Other relatives were bankers, who collaborated moreover with the British reconnaissance and helped English industrialists to wash clean their money. While Englishmen were forced to use third side, for example, Vallenbergov, for continuing the trade with Germany, the United States remained neutral state.

In 1940, during the "strange war" British reconnaissance with the vexation observed, as American competitors they penetrate for the markets for the countries of "axis". American oil flowed into Germany, Spain and Italy, and German stamps and seized gold settled in the Swiss banks. Everything went well, until the United States enter the war in 1941. After this, the collaboration with the German companies became illegal, but this did not stop American corporations.
Thus, Senate Committee for the national defense, headed by the senator Garry Trumen, became known about the renewal of the cooperation deal of the company "Standard Oil", control block of shares of which belonged to Rockefeller, with "I.G. Farben". This meant that the company of Rockefeller intends to collaborate with the Nazis, disregarding of the fact that the government of his own country declared the war of Germany. Trumen required additional investigation, but the matter, however, in an inexplicable manner is rapid stopped. The reason for this was one - blackmail. It was led to information of American government, that the deliveries to oil can cease, and in it it did not remain another output, except as to be reconciled with the existing state of affairs.
One of high ranking employees of "Standard Oil" for high treason was penalized to 1000 dollars, which composed fourth of its weekly wage. By the fact the matter ended. Company "Texaco", as several other American petroleum companies, sold oil to the countries of "axis" through the third persons. "they arrived more important than the policy and it is unimportant - war does go on or not".
When Britain was agitated was the connections of American petroleum companies "I.G. Farben", brothers Dalles just as successfully used petroleum blackmail against London, as it is earlier - against Washington. Englishmen were forced to hold language.
However, not Britain to charge Americans - they have their own scandal, connected with "I.G. Farben". the "Imperial Chemical of Industries" (ICI) he was the partner Of "farben" in several large transactions. Itself Allen Dalles brought together ICI and "farben" to one chemical cartel. By main face in that controlled Nazis "shrlder to jar" was the baron of Bruno Shrlder, whose headquarters was located in London. British banks in Paris during the occupation manifested high business activity. It is analogous, Bank of England continued collaboration with the bank according to the international calculations, controlled by Nazis, which are located in Switzerland.....

John Lofthus, Mark Aarons. "SECRET WAR AGAINST THE JEWS"

As you could easy see , gentlemens, not just comrade Stalin supplied the oil and materials to the Germany in 1939-1941.American "partners" didn't wish to lose a big money on Nazi market too.

pdf27
10-09-2006, 01:04 PM
As you could easy see , gentlemens, not just comrade Stalin supplied the oil and materials to the Germany in 1939-1941.American "partners" didn't wish to lose a big money on Nazi market too.
Indeed. There is an interesting section on this in "A man named Intrepid" about the secret activities of the British government in the US prior to the declaration of war. A substantial number of US businessmen were happy to trade with the Nazis, although this number was radically reduced once BSC (British Security Co-ordination, the umbrella name for the various British secret groups operating in the US) had got to work with for instance newspaper leaks and the like.
Nor was it restricted to business. Joseph P. Kennedy, then US ambassador to the UK behaved in a way that had he been a British subject would have been bordering on treason throughout 1940. All communications between London and Washington were routed away from him as far as possible, and eventually the British were able to dig up enough dirt on him for FDR to recall him to the US and blackmail him into dropping his plan to run for President.

Having said that, we did send the US Lord Halifax in return, so are hardly blameless when it comes to sending Nazis as ambassadors in the middle of a war.

alephh
10-10-2006, 09:20 AM
Well, there are certain tendencies to support the topic of this thread...

For example truck production... Opel and Daimler Benz plants in Germany were bombed to halt, Ford (Cologne) plant was not, and in 1948 Henry Ford visited Cologne to celebrate the 10,000th truck to roll off the assembly. And there are allegations that Ford initially resisted calls from Roosevelt and Churchill to increase war production for the Allies.

Another example is heavy current industry, the only company that pretty much avoided U.S. bombings was A.E.G., while companies with no american connections were bombing targets (like Siemens Schukert and Brown Boveri).

Nickdfresh
10-11-2006, 06:36 AM
Well, there are certain tendencies to support the topic of this thread...

For example truck production... Opel and Daimler Benz plants in Germany were bombed to halt, Ford (Cologne) plant was not, and in 1948 Henry Ford visited Cologne to celebrate the 10,000th truck to roll off the assembly. And there are allegations that Ford initially resisted calls from Roosevelt and Churchill to increase war production for the Allies.

I would have to see some speculative documentation on the claim that Ford resisted War production increases. Ford was antisemitic and a ***** to an extent. But he was making real money off the War effort. America's overall production, of which Ford made a real contribution, would contradict this.

As far as the claim regarding the factory, it is rather dubious since it has been well established in this forum that WWII era strategic bombing was woefully inaccurate. And Ford knew full well any profits made after an American victory would far exceed whatever losses one factory would sustain.


Another example is heavy current industry, the only company that pretty much avoided U.S. bombings was A.E.G., while companies with no american connections were bombing targets (like Siemens Schukert and Brown Boveri).


Again, rather speculative.

ArmyDude1973
12-08-2006, 01:06 PM
well to my understanding ford is a north american company and they had places in the states as well in germany just like benz did as well and instead of shipping equment it would be there for when the war was over i could be wrong on this mater and if i am im sorey

savoy6
12-27-2006, 06:34 PM
as per henry ford....the things i have heard about this guy over the years almost border on howard hughs sort of control issues....like when the war dept contracted with ford and willys to make the jeep.the contract stated that both companies parts had to be interchangable and any problem parts could be returned to either company for replacement.(kind of like how sears did with it's tool line for years) well henry ford had all the parts for the ford made jeeps,right down to the nuts and bolts marked with a small cursive "f" on them so that he would only have to replace ford parts if returned....cheap...and it is a fact that the ford plants weren't hit during the war.it is my understanding that he agreed to nearly halt production at the european plants and to run full blast for US war production if we didn't hit the german plants.as soon as it was over ford had a head start on heavy truck manufacturing in germany and europe in general.we should also remember that they were a german army contractor until 1942,after pearl harbor.a good bit of german army transport for the polish and french campeigns was by ford.