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ww2admin
07-28-2006, 01:30 PM
Anyone know what's up with the gunner's foot? Check out his boot...are those cleats? What were they for, grip? I've never heard of them making boots like that back then.
Btw, this pic was taken during D-Day. I have 100+ other pics like this...all full color. I'll post them later on www.ww2incolor.com

http://www.ww2incolor.com/temp/dday2.jpg

Dani
07-28-2006, 01:43 PM
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/687/dday2ajm9.jpg

Gutkowski
07-28-2006, 09:00 PM
Traction cleats were metal spikes attached to the sole of Army boots in WW2 to help the Diggers get firm footing on the greasy slippery tracks

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/gutkowski/boot-cleats.jpg

ww2admin
07-28-2006, 09:16 PM
Thanks for that info Gutkowski. Nowadays, technology has let us use some kind of rubber on the boots instead of spikes, right? It's very rare you see spikes on shoes today.

Dani
07-29-2006, 03:08 AM
Traction cleats were metal spikes attached to the sole of Army boots in WW2 to help the Diggers get firm footing on the greasy slippery tracks

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/gutkowski/boot-cleats.jpg

Those boots are Australian. Australians hd cleats on their boots. I didn't find any reference for American boots during ww2.

american sniper
07-29-2006, 09:00 AM
yeah the only ones i could find was the cleats posted above and a pair of German Ankle Boots (Schnürschuhe).
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2980/lowboot02sm1.jpg

Gutkowski
07-30-2006, 10:35 AM
I am sure that all the men impervised in WWII , I could not find any US army Issue boots with cleats in any of my books either.

american sniper
07-30-2006, 11:11 PM
do you think that mabey they where sent to him from his family or something. they might have been special made for him in his home town or something. he could have writen in a letter to his folks about how mabey he kept slipping or he couldnt get good traction and his family got someone to make him a special pair of boots. Its just a thought you never know

WaistGunner
08-08-2006, 03:04 PM
do you think that mabey they where sent to him from his family or something. they might have been special made for him in his home town or something. he could have writen in a letter to his folks about how mabey he kept slipping or he couldnt get good traction and his family got someone to make him a special pair of boots. Its just a thought you never know

It could also be that they were purchased in theater. I have seen photos of a lot of uniforms and such that were slightly different then the American issue because they were made by tailors in theater. I'm sure that boots were the same way. If the Germans were seen wearing the traction boots it couldn't have been to difficult to get someone to make them (if they didn't already) in theater for a fraction of what it would cost to have them made in the states and shipped over.

Lancer44
08-09-2006, 02:47 AM
It could also be that they were purchased in theater. I have seen photos of a lot of uniforms and such that were slightly different then the American issue because they were made by tailors in theater. I'm sure that boots were the same way. If the Germans were seen wearing the traction boots it couldn't have been to difficult to get someone to make them (if they didn't already) in theater for a fraction of what it would cost to have them made in the states and shipped over.

Hi mate,

Rather impossible. You'r way of thinking is modern. Try to think WWII, not today. Either repairing or manufacturing boots in Europe by civilian contractors was impossible due to the lack of leather on the market.

Here a bit of explanation:

"After two trips to the shop for resoling, the Army shoe becomes unserviceable, although the upper is generally still in good condition. As a result, in June 1942 the Quartermaster Corps inaugurated a shoe-rebuilding program through leasing one plant and contracting for the services of another. Later similar facilities were provided overseas.

Overseas operations largely resemble those within the continental United States. Base shops have been established to handle major repair and to take care of the overflow from the mobile shops in the field; these are operated by civilian personnel, recruited and trained from the native population. On the other hand, field work is accomplished mainly by the mobile shoe repair shops, which move with the troops and are manned by military personnel.

In Rome, two American corporals with the aid of ten civilian Italian cobblers are repairing more than 4,000 pairs of shoes a month for Army personnel. In the Marianas, trailers of a Quartermaster Mobile Repair Company are returning to service every month more than 10,000 pairs of shoes for the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Seabees at an estimated saving of 30,000 square feet of leather."

Source: http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/WWII/shoes_and_the_army.htm

So we proved that even re-soling was responsibility of the Army.

And nice photo of "ammo boots":
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1573/ammobootskg1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

More you can find here:

http://www.drillpad.net/DI_AF_Taps.htm

The cleats on our artilleryman boots were probably done by inventive divisional cobbler. The whole trick is that we think in todays terms - boots are worn, go to quartermaster and get new ones. It was not the case in WWII even in US Army - re-soling and repairing was common.

Cheers,

Lancer44

Cuts
08-09-2006, 01:24 PM
Hi mate,

Rather impossible. You'r way of thinking is modern. Try to think WWII, not today. Either repairing or manufacturing boots in Europe by civilian contractors was impossible due to the lack of leather on the market.

...

Source: http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/WWII/shoes_and_the_army.htm

So we proved that even re-soling was responsibility of the Army.

And nice photo of "ammo boots":
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1573/ammobootskg1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

More you can find here:

http://www.drillpad.net/DI_AF_Taps.htm

The cleats on our artilleryman boots were probably done by inventive divisional cobbler. The whole trick is that we think in todays terms - boots are worn, go to quartermaster and get new ones. It was not the case in WWII even in US Army - re-soling and repairing was common.

Cheers,

Lancer44

With all due respect Lancer old mate, one post from the first result of a Google search is hardly 'proof' !

All armies at the time repaired their own boots, and many still do. The US Army is not amongst the latter however, as maintenance and replacement is the responsibility of the individual.

Even though boots and other eqpt could be repaired at a central loc, many troops would, (and again still do,) get a local artizan to repair their kit. They could be certain that the same item would be returned - especially if as you suggest that it is done at Div level !

I for one cannot tell by studying that photograph from which material the soles are made.
Many different materials were used during the war, but for the most part civvies also managed to retain some working footwear and had to have them repaired somewhere.
The lack of leather is neither here nor there when it comes to hobnailing, studding or cleating boots - they're made of metal.

So while the studs may have been installed by a military cobbler, (or even the sldr himself,) it is not without the bounds of credibility that the sldr in the photo had them done locally as WaistGunner suggested.

savoy6
08-09-2006, 06:29 PM
looks like the guy just has some after-market hob nails tacked into the soles....probably needed them trying to get traction on a muddy half-track deck.

Lancer44
08-09-2006, 07:54 PM
With all due respect Lancer old mate, one post from the first result of a Google search is hardly 'proof' !
Sure as hell mate!


Even though boots and other eqpt could be repaired at a central loc, many troops would, (and again still do,) get a local artizan to repair their kit. They could be certain that the same item would be returned - especially if as you suggest that it is done at Div level !

This is the point. No one likes getting boots used by someone else.


Many different materials were used during the war, but for the most part civvies also managed to retain some working footwear and had to have them repaired somewhere.
The lack of leather is neither here nor there when it comes to hobnailing, studding or cleating boots - they're made of metal..

Leather in Europe was as scarce as hen teeth. The main reason for hobnailing and cleating was preservation of soles.
Even old car tyres were used, but it's rather hard to nail cleats to rubber.

[/QUOTE]So while the studs may have been installed by a military cobbler, (or even the sldr himself,) it is not without the bounds of credibility that the sldr in the photo had them done locally as WaistGunner suggested.[/QUOTE]

So it had to be done in England... Quite possible. Certainly not in Normandy.

And BTW - what about military "games" which I asked for on priv?
I sent you something...

Cheers,

Lancer44

Cuts
08-10-2006, 06:38 AM
Leather in Europe was as scarce as hen teeth. The main reason for hobnailing and cleating was preservation of soles.
Even old car tyres were used, but it's rather hard to nail cleats to rubber.


So while the studs may have been installed by a military cobbler, (or even the sldr himself,) it is not without the bounds of credibility that the sdr in the photo had them done locally as WaistGunner suggested.

So it had to be done in England... Quite possible. Certainly not in Normandy.(My bold.)


Sorry mate, I still don't see why cleats couldn't be fitted locally, they're metal and only require screwing or nailing into place.




And BTW - what about military "games" which I asked for on priv?
I sent you something...

Just seen pal, I'll send you a reply.

Lancer44
08-10-2006, 07:26 PM
(My bold.)


Sorry mate, I still don't see why cleats couldn't be fitted locally, they're metal and only require screwing or nailing into place.



Photo was obviously done right after landing on the beach in Normandy.
Do you think that our gunner run to find French cobbler among flattened villages?

Hiddenrug
08-19-2006, 07:54 AM
It have been a fashion treend at the time!? lol

Cuts
08-19-2006, 08:19 AM
Photo was obviously done right after landing on the beach in Normandy.
Do you think that our gunner run to find French cobbler among flattened villages?


Ok, if the pic was taken on 06 Jun 44 as WWII Admin says I'll buy that explanation.
The troops don't exhibit much of a sense of urgency and momentum for blokes taking part in the biggest ever seaborne assaut against a defended coastline though.

I think this pic could well have been taken either during pre-op trg or more likely some days after the landings.

As you say they could have been done in the UK, perhaps after seeing the Brit ammo boots.


But not due to lack of leather, eh ? ;)

Lancer44
08-19-2006, 09:23 AM
Anyone know what's up with the gunner's foot? Check out his boot...are those cleats? What were they for, grip? I've never heard of them making boots like that back then.
Btw, this pic was taken during D-Day. I have 100+ other pics like this...all full color...[/IMG]

Hi Cuts,

Admin says that this was D-Day. So be it.

You question the fact that these guys looks pretty relaxed...
It may look strange but why not...? They just get ashore alive. They are waiting for sappers to clear way through obstacles... infantry took care of German strong points and MG positions.

Why not relax?

Cleats were fitted by English cobbler somewhere in southern England. Period!

(I would agree with you looooooooong time ago, but because of your advances towards this Romanian medic, which I like very much - see "Cool pics of Romanian Navy" topic - and your rough pushing me aside - I will argue about this bloody English cobbler...

BTW - no FRENCH COBBLER WOULD CHOOSE THAT FUNNY POSITIONING OF CLEATS ON THE SOLE... IT'S DEFINITELLY BRITISH!

Cheers, LOL, LOL,

Lancer44

Cuts
08-19-2006, 11:48 AM
Housit Lancer,


Hi Cuts,

Admin says that this was D-Day. So be it.

I'm still unsure of the location, the more I look at the picture the more it ceases to look like the invasion area.
The scenery is most unlike the bocage of Normandy, the hedges are thin and the fields in the background are far larger than those generally encountered up from the beaches.

A mate took a squiz at the pic and and he's sure he'd seen it before somewhere, I think it looks very posed.


You question the fact that these guys looks pretty relaxed...
It may look strange but why not...? They just get ashore alive. They are waiting for sappers to clear way through obstacles... infantry took care of German strong points and MG positions.

Why not relax?

Because after the landings there were pockets of the enemy all over the shop, some trying to get back to their lines, some intent on killing Allied sldrs.
The breakout from the beachead was not a solid progression, but a series of advances that were later linked up.
If they'd just got ashore they shoud be well switched on, looking for possible threats. Even green troops would have SNCOs getting amongst them to ensure they were sparking.
As 2nd of Foot mentioned in another thread: "Complacency will get you every time."


Cleats were fitted by English cobbler somewhere in southern England. Period!
I have no evidence for or against this premise. :)


(I would agree with you looooooooong time ago, but because of your advances towards this Romanian medic, which I like very much - see "Cool pics of Romanian Navy" topic - and your rough pushing me aside - I will argue about this bloody English cobbler...

She does look rather edible, doesn't she ?
Our females wouldn't get away with wearing their hair down, but it does lend her a certain wildness !
"Rough pushing "? I merely said "Double away !" - but then I'm used to saying that, it comes with the job ! :D


BTW - no FRENCH COBBLER WOULD CHOOSE THAT FUNNY POSITIONING OF CLEATS ON THE SOLE... IT'S DEFINITELLY BRITISH!

Cheers, LOL, LOL,

Lancer44

I missed out on the courses FCTHP-I and FCTHP-II, (French Cobblers' Taste in Hobnail Patterns,) but if I get time I'll try to fit it into my calendar.
Doesn't look like anything I've seen in the UK either, but the sldr could have specfied where he wanted them placed.

Laters. ;)