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Gen. Sandworm
07-17-2006, 03:31 PM
I thought i would extend out site to other wars. Please feel free to start in here and let me know in Site feedback if you want another war forum. Thanks.

kallinikosdrama1992
11-03-2007, 11:30 AM
i sent this post because they say many things about korean war but the dont explain . can anyone sent any details or info about this war

the only think i know is that us and other nato forces were involved in it

Nickdfresh
11-04-2007, 04:49 PM
Well, I'm not sure how much English you can digest in one sitting. But the Wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War) is a good place to start. And Max Hastings wrote an excellent overview of the war in "The Korean War."

BAR_GUNNER
04-29-2008, 06:46 PM
The Greeks were one of the most respected units by US soldiers in the Korean War.

BAR_GUNNER
04-29-2008, 07:35 PM
During the Korean War, the 5th Regimental Combat Team went further north than any other Unit. Eight miles from the Yalu river, they captured prisoners who told them the Chinese had crossed the river in strength. When E Co CO radioed BN Hq, they did not believe it.

We sent the prisoners back for interrogation. They notified Regiment, same story, they sent them back. Intel. did not believe the Chinese would cross the river, they would not accept that they had. It was not until our prisoners got all the way back to Japan, they finally believed and notified MacArthur. By then, it was too late, if I remember correctly 142 Chinese Divisions were across the River.

It may have been a defeat at the River, but it was not due to the Infantry or Marines.

Unlike the ones evac'd at Hungnam, the 5th fought rear guard all the way back by road to the 38th Parallel.... Someone asked how to compare wars. Only one way I know, but many figures on the Internet are incorrect. They vary from 30,000 KIA in Korea, to 34,000, to 53.000 who died. The Korean War Veterans Memorial has it carved into Granite, as 53,000 US troops. BUT, that is not the whole story, 35 countries participated, and the South Koreans Military and Police lost over 170,000. Then, there were over 6 million civilians who died in this "Police Action" as Truman called it, trying to fool America into thinking it was not a real war.

One out of every 12 men who served in WWII was Killed in Action.
One out of every 16 men who served in NAM was Killed in action in ten years.
One of every NINE men who served in Korea, was Killed in action in three years.
NAM fortunately had a lot of Medical Evac Helicopters, to lower the KIA, by getting them to MASH units faster than possible in WWII or Korea....
For a really BAD War, check the Civil War, where 54,000 died in the Gettysburg in three days.

IF One man dies in a War, it is a tragedy for that family.
Some think of War like its a game, those who fight them, do not play the games.

Yes, we fought both the NK and the Chinese, and kicked them both our of S.Korea. We ended the war where it began, at the 38th Parallel. It was not a "heroic defeat," as some have said. Many call it, "The Forgotten War" but those who were there will never forget, neither will their families. In fact, we are STILL at war with NK, a cease fire was signed, but no armistice was ever signed. US Soldiers have died every year since fighting formally ended, defending the Main Line of Resistance or MLR.

Rising Sun*
04-29-2008, 10:07 PM
One out of every 12 men who served in WWII was Killed in Action.
One out of every 16 men who served in NAM was Killed in action in ten years.
One of every NINE men who served in Korea, was Killed in action in three years.
NAM fortunately had a lot of Medical Evac Helicopters, to lower the KIA, by getting them to MASH units faster than possible in WWII or Korea....


The cold in Korea introduced problems and injuries that didn't apply in Vietnam, although I don't know to what extent it contributed to deaths. I'd expect a lot of troops who would have survived in temperate or tropical climates would have succumbed to wounds and shock with the additional burden of severe cold.


Apart from battle-related wounds, weather was a major factor in poor health, particularly among the ground troops who were forced to live in the cold of winter and in the extreme heat of summer. During the first year of the war, casualties were caused roughly in equal numbers by enemy action and the cold.


“Cold! I thought I knew it but Korea taught me otherwise. Cold so intense that even the ground was frozen solid and rivers iced up whilst a bone-chilling variable wind swept over the barren landscape. A weak sun rarely appeared in the leaden sky, vegetation withered and all animal life, with the exception of rats that infested our hoochies in plague proportions, vanished.”

Private Desmond Guilfoyle, 1 RAR

The incidence of frostbite was so severe in the first winter of 1950-51 that many of those afflicted had to be evacuated to Japan for treatment, which sometimes included amputation. It was particularly difficult to prevent because soldiers were on the move all the time and unable to take proper care of their feet, to change their socks daily, and give their feet rest.

Medicines, including penicillin, froze, and medical personnel expecting casualties warmed phials of medication in their pockets.

http://www.awm.gov.au/korea/ausinkorea/medical/medical.asp

See also http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/weather/weather.htm

BAR_GUNNER
04-30-2008, 01:09 PM
You are correct, we had more casualties that first winter from wounds, who died due to the cold and very slow Evac. Some may have survived though, as their blood froze and it stopped the bleeding.

Saw a documentary on the Military Channel of an agent in Siberia. Well dressed in winter gear, he had hypothermia at 40 below 0. We had summer sleeping bags, no special cold weather clothing, regular leather boots, and temperatures to 40 below 0 in the mountains of NK. It was not until much later we learned there was also a wind chill factor which varied up to -100 degrees. We had to keep moving all night, and sleep days when it was warmer.

We sure wished later we had all the choppers they had in NAM, but it was so cold they probably could not have flown. Ive heard the ones we had would come apart in those temps. We had one chopper for the entire regiment for Med Evac. Sometimes it took 6-17 hours to get wounded down from positions in the mountains, as there were no roads, and when they were one lane most of the way.

The 5th RCT also went to NAM, but though had intended to stay in for a career, I'd had enough and had been discharged after 9 years in 1955. Went to DC after "The Wall" was built, and was shocked to find so many friends who had stayed in, on "The Wall." One had been my First Sgt, others had been in my Platoon. Probably others, but the terrain was so bad we seldom got to know anyone who was in other Platoons.

BAR_GUNNER
04-30-2008, 01:48 PM
The 5th RCT was in combat 94% of the time in Korea. The time we were not in combat, we were behind the lines in trucks. We were headed to some other place in Korea where the Chinese had attacked with a heavy force or had broken through, and they needed us. The 5th RCT had its own trucking company to move us around to Hot Spots. They began calling us, "The Fire Brigade."

While you are reading books, you could read "Hills of Sacrifice" the only book about an Army Regiment, written by a Marine Colonel. He had intended to write another book about the Marines. While studying the history of the 1st Marines in Korea, he came across reports in Mariner history about the 5th RCT and decided to write it instead. H

We had been attached to the 1st Marines for Logistics and Intelligence when we were both the Point Units in the breakout from Pusan. Where on the flank of the 1st, the 5th wiped out an entire Division. At the time they did not know that, and were complaining they had to wait for us to catch up. :) After the breakout, they pulled the 1st Marines for the landing in Inchon, and we were point for the 1st CAV, and then the 24th, and 25th Div.

A Marine General compared the 5th RCT to the
Wolfhounds, 442nd, and 1st Marines in WWII.

BAR_GUNNER
04-30-2008, 02:04 PM
“Cold! I thought I knew it but Korea taught me otherwise. Cold so intense that even the ground was frozen solid and rivers iced up whilst a bone-chilling variable wind swept over the barren landscape. A weak sun rarely appeared in the leaden sky, vegetation withered and all animal life, with the exception of rats that infested our hoochies in plague proportions, vanished.”

Private Desmond Guilfoyle, 1 RAR"

That is putting it mildly. What he did not specify, when trying to dig foxholes, many times it was frozen over 3 feet deep.

ww2admin
04-30-2008, 02:31 PM
Thanks for those posts Bar Gunner, they were informative.

Rising Sun*
04-30-2008, 08:11 PM
BAR GUNNER

It's good to have you aboard.

For some reason the Korean War is largely overlooked and almost regarded as not a 'real' war in some quarters, but at least as far as Australia was concerned it was a more costly and vicious conflict than Vietnam, with KIA rates about 75% higher than Vietnam .

339 Australians killed in three years of Korean War = 113 a year.

520 Australians killed in eight years of battalion or greater commitment (ignores earlier training team involvement) = 65 a year.

It's been noted by historians here that life continued in Australia during the Korean War as if nothing was happening. Compare that with the political and social turmoil here during the Vietnam War, which mirrored that in America.

Do you think an element of war weariness from WWII flowed into attitudes to Korea, coming so soon after WWII ended?

What was your experience of American civilian attitudes to the Korean War at the time?

Firefly
05-01-2008, 04:15 AM
Thanks for the excellent posts BAR Gunner. Its really fascinating to read about the real file experiences of someone who was there.

Rising Sun*
05-01-2008, 04:21 AM
Thanks for the excellent posts BAR Gunner. Its really fascinating to read about the real file experiences of someone who was there.


Real file?

He wasn't a clerk. :D

Nor are you, judging by your typo. :)

BAR_GUNNER
05-01-2008, 12:23 PM
BAR GUNNER

It's good to have you aboard.

For some reason the Korean War is largely overlooked and almost regarded as not a 'real' war in some quarters, but at least as far as Australia was concerned it was a more costly and vicious conflict than Vietnam, with KIA rates about 75% higher than Vietnam .

339 Australians killed in three years of Korean War = 113 a year.

520 Australians killed in eight years of battalion or greater commitment (ignores earlier training team involvement) = 65 a year.

It's been noted by historians here that life continued in Australia during the Korean War as if nothing was happening. Compare that with the political and social turmoil here during the Vietnam War, which mirrored that in America.

Do you think an element of war weariness from WWII flowed into attitudes to Korea, coming so soon after WWII ended?

What was your experience of American civilian attitudes to the Korean War at the time?

We loved to go on R&R with Australians, we wound up with their hats, and they went home with ours. That hat was the most desired souvenir to have. Aussies made good combat troops, along with the Greeks and Turks, holding a position better than a few of US units that I could name.

American civilians had pretty much the same attitude, like for them was normal, at the time there was little or no TV coverage. In small towns like the one I was from, many did not know any were dying in Korea. When we came home, no parades, no attention or awareness, and not even recognition from the American Legion, etc. One of my best friends said, "What do you mean, what war?" Not even headlines for days in many papers.

Worst Experience, was caused by munitions employees who went on _Strike_ in the US. We wound up with rationing of all ammo. When they tell you "you can only use two grenades a day, etc." and have mass attacks by the Chinese so you are outnumbered 20 or more to 1, you want to kill the strikers. One night our 105 BN, 555th or Triple Nickle, had to fire over 6000 rounds, to set up a curtain around our position to protect our BN from over 50,000 Chinese. The CO finally had to ask them to fire on our position. It was a good thing ammo was not rationed that night, it was the only thing which saved us...

Did you know they have carved in Granite at the Korean War Veterans Memorial, the name of every country that went to Korea?

Those who paid most attention, were WWII Vets in our family. My Uncles who served, had a big homecoming party for me, inviting all the relatives. As I come from a very big family, and almost all showed up, it was quite an occasion. Home recovering from wounds, they were shocked to hear I was volunteering to return. They thought that I was crazy. :shock:

herman2
05-01-2008, 01:57 PM
BAR GUNNER

It's good to have you aboard.

For some reason the Korean War is largely overlooked and almost regarded as not a 'real' war in some quarters, but at least as far as Australia was concerned it was a more costly and vicious conflict than Vietnam, with KIA rates about 75% higher than Vietnam .

339 Australians killed in three years of Korean War = 113 a year.

520 Australians killed in eight years of battalion or greater commitment (ignores earlier training team involvement) = 65 a year.

It's been noted by historians here that life continued in Australia during the Korean War as if nothing was happening. Compare that with the political and social turmoil here during the Vietnam War, which mirrored that in America.

Do you think an element of war weariness from WWII flowed into attitudes to Korea, coming so soon after WWII ended?

What was your experience of American civilian attitudes to the Korean War at the time?

All of these casualties could have been prevented if we only used the H-bomb to neutralize the North. So many lives lost and nothing to show for it. The whole travesty of the Korean war will remain forever cause we were to wimpish to use te H-bomb on the Commies.

Nickdfresh
05-01-2008, 03:32 PM
All of these casualties could have been prevented if we only used the H-bomb to neutralize the North. So many lives lost and nothing to show for it. The whole travesty of the Korean war will remain forever cause we were to wimpish to use te H-bomb on the Commies.

Um, "we?" Aren't you Canadian? And secondly, had "we" used the bomb in Korea, the Soviets might well have decided that we've gone insane and that they were next and retaliated. Firstly with a bomb in the South. Then, who knows where it goes from there...

If one is to be so cavalier about destroying hundreds of thousands of civilian lives, the you'd best be prepared to lose those of your relatives....

Gen. MacArthur's complete ignoring of the obvious signs of the Chinese PLA "Volunteers" entering the War was a major failure, and signaled an ignominious end to his career.

Rising Sun*
05-02-2008, 12:28 PM
but who knows what would of happen if it came to that....


Quite possibly as set out in Nick's third sentence in the post before yours.

BAR_GUNNER
05-02-2008, 02:20 PM
All of these casualties could have been prevented if we only used the H-bomb to neutralize the North. So many lives lost and nothing to show for it. The whole travesty of the Korean war will remain forever cause we were to wimpish to use te H-bomb on the Commies.

Unfortunately, no they could not have been prevented.

First, the terrain was not conducive to an A or H-bomb. Perhaps the only place it could have been dropped, would have been on the valley of the Yalu River. If so, it would have contaminated with radiation for months, the land and water. With the training we got in the army about what the radiation alone would do, that alone was a reason not to drop it there. Compared to today, the A-Bomb then, was a _very_ dirty bomb.

Secondly, _no_target_ other than that area. There are no major cities the size of those in japan, lots of very small cities, towns, hamlets, etc... Even an A-bomb would have been a waste. Would have had to drop several, to get the same effect in Japan. N.Korea is split with lots of mountains, you drop a bomb in one of those valley's even on the largest city, the force of the bomb goes UP not out, as in Japan. Reducing the effect dramatically. It would not stop NK and China from going around the contaminated area.

Third, if we had dropped in the Yalu river valley, the other side of the River is China. Officially we were not at war with China. Supposedly the Chinese troops were "volunteers." The UN would not have, approved it, as we had so many UN countries involved, it would have been a major disaster. Would have lost support of probably all the countries.

Could have been the beginning of WWIII.

MacArthur, should have kept his big mouth shut, and obeyed orders. If one of us in the Far East had disobeyed a direct order like he did, we would have spent the next 20 years in Leavenworth Prison. Truman had given him a direct order at a conference, just prior to him talking about dropping it, NOT to reveal anything which had been discussed. It was all labeled "Top Secret."

He knew Korea would not be a good target, if he did not, he was stupid, and I'll never believe that. He just wanted all the publicity, and made a grave mistake, when he did not believe Truman would can him. Of all the things Truman did in the Korean War, that is the one of the best decisions he made. The guys in the 5th talked about it, and the majority felt the same.

Firefly
05-02-2008, 06:27 PM
Real file?

He wasn't a clerk. :D

Nor are you, judging by your typo. :)

No, must be a Freudian slip or something as I have sort of ended up as one!

herman2
09-18-2009, 01:02 PM
So we have all heard about POWS being held after the war in vietnam but were there any American POW's after the Korean war being held in what is now called North Korea? I never heard of it and Chuck Norris never starred in any movies in Korea!

Nickdfresh
09-19-2009, 12:35 AM
So we have all heard about POWS being held after the war in vietnam but were there any American POW's after the Korean war being held in what is now called North Korea? I never heard of it and Chuck Norris never starred in any movies in Korea!

I would say ironically that the rumors of US personnel held after the Korean War are probably far more likely to be true than the Chuck Norris stories about Vietnam. I think there are some reliable accounts of US Air Force pilots, most likely flyers of F-86 Sabres, that were transferred to China, then the Soviet Union and never heard from again...

pdf27
09-19-2009, 02:20 AM
I'm certainly aware of accounts of a small number of US personnell who according to the North Koreans had "elected" not to return to the US. Since the US was doing the same thing with a very large number of North Korean personnell, it was decided not to press the matter.

Nickdfresh
09-26-2009, 02:41 PM
I'm certainly aware of accounts of a small number of US personnell who according to the North Koreans had "elected" not to return to the US. Since the US was doing the same thing with a very large number of North Korean personnell, it was decided not to press the matter.

There were about US 30 or so defectors, one of whom returned to the United States not long ago and faced desertion charges fifty some years after the fact. Most were idealistic communists or resented the US-UN War in Korea. However, there are persistent rumors, supported by testimony, that the Soviets were desperate for information on the Sabres, and especially for anything connected to Strategic Air Command. So it's believed that some pilots that were claimed dead may have been sent to the Soviet Union for interrogation. It's said that some ended their lives either in the Gulag system, or they were killed outright once they outlived their usefulness...

ckingsley17
05-25-2017, 08:12 PM
Trying to shed some light on my grandfathers involvement in the Korean war. supposably he was injured and they flew him back state side. but he would never talk about it. i have his dog tags. but i really haven't been able to find anything about him

Nickdfresh
05-26-2017, 02:54 PM
Trying to shed some light on my grandfathers involvement in the Korean war. supposably he was injured and they flew him back state side. but he would never talk about it. i have his dog tags. but i really haven't been able to find anything about him

I'm really not sure what we can do for you. Perhaps you could see if you could get his 201-File and some inquiries to the DOD. See if you can track down any friends. Korea was a strange war fraught with both highs and lows and I think it was probably as unpopular as the later Vietnam one. There is potential that your grandfather was caught in the ignominious defeats after victory was in near grasp after the Chinese entered the war en mass. Many did things they weren't necessarily proud of or they witnessed wholesale obliteration of small U.S. units that was uncommon even in WWII. I recommend watching the following PBS series:

http://www.pbs.org/program/unforgettable/

Unforgettable: The Korean War also goes beyond the battle stories to recount the aftermath of the war. When the peace talks finally ended and the fighting stopped, it was a generally thankless nation that greeted the returning troops. All of the veterans' effort and sacrifice went largely unacknowledged by their fellow citizens. Though fought by an international force assembled by the United Nations, it was as if the war didn't exist outside of Korea. As veteran Spencer Titley from the United States Army recalls, "I know no great novel written about it. And there is no poetry written. No songs. Nothing on the culture side marks the passage of Korea. It was basically over and done with and forgotten."

"They can call it whatever they want. I think it was a war and that's it. A lot of guys were dying or getting wounded and you can call it "the Forgotten War" or "the conflict," but it was a war. That's it." — Eddie Rios, United States Marine Corps