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Lancer44
06-27-2006, 08:37 AM
Hi guys,

Who knows something about this gizmo.
I'm reading report from Iraq.
Apparently this device produced in Russia by "Bazalt Corporation" shot through Abrams M1.
By "through", I mean that it went right through the tank like through the tub of margarine - both sides of armour were damaged.
Serial number of Abrams - M1A1 L13170. Tactical number B-24.

Suggestions that rebels used RPG 7WR is somewhat fishy, because tandem
cumulative head would leave much bigger hole.
Abrams mentioned before had entry hole was about 6mm in diameter.
Unless we know nothing about RPG 7WR...

Do you know something about it?

Cheers,

Lancer44

Dani
06-27-2006, 09:22 AM
It seems that mystery was solved:

RPG-7G grenade launcher with PG-7VL or PG-7VR load.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/solved.asp

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/default.asp?target=rpg7vl.htm

http://www.bazalt.ru/rpg-7v-eng.htm

Lancer44
06-27-2006, 10:04 AM
It seems that mystery was solved:

RPG-7G grenade launcher with PG-7VL or PG-7VR load.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/solved.asp

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/default.asp?target=rpg7vl.htm

http://www.bazalt.ru/rpg-7v-eng.htm

Hi Dani,

I know these reports. Thanks for posting links to them.
I don't think that entry hole from RPG can be that small.
Well I'm not an expert but I'm sure it was not RPG but something else.

Cheers,

Lancer44

Dani
06-27-2006, 10:09 AM
[...] but I'm sure it was not RPG but something else.


No way to be some plasma s*it weapon as I saw on conspiracies theory sites. :D

Lancer44
06-27-2006, 10:19 AM
No way to be some plasma s*it weapon as I saw on conspiracies theory sites. :D

Noooo, but what if someone tried to experiment with copper based bomblets and managed to fit such device into remote land mine?
I mean not mine which explodes when crushed under tanks tracks but fitted side way from the road.

Are you reading conspiracy sites.... ????? Shame, shame , shame LOL

Cheers,

L44

Dani
06-27-2006, 01:02 PM
Are you reading conspiracy sites.... ????? Shame, shame , shame LOL


In my searchings, from time to time I met such sites. Fortunatelly such kind of sites makes me rolling on the floor laughing.

2nd of foot
06-27-2006, 06:21 PM
OFF-ROUTE MINE (ANTI-TANK)
This French mine is designed for vehicle ambush. The mine is placed at the side of the road and a thin electric 'breakwire' laid out across the vehicle's path. The mine is initiated when the vehicle breaks the wire. A shaped charge known as a 'Misznay Schardin Plate' fires an explosively formed projectile into the side of the vehicle.
OFF-ROUTE MINE (ANTI-TANK) Specifications
Length 0.26m
Weight 12kg
Diameter 0.2m
Range 75m



This is from the British army site.

If you google “off route mine” you will get an idea. The one above (I can’t find a picture) is the size of a catering tin of beans. It can be attached to trees, buildings or any place you like. It is set off by the vehicle breaking a very thin wire that can be put across a gap. The wire is normally put on the ground.

The RPG has been upgraded over the year to keep pace with tank designs. You need only change the round not the method of delivery. This may be a tandem round and not many are around. It also helps if the enemy know what they have.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/default.asp?target=rpg7vl.htm

this RPG has an image intensifier weapons site (night site).

SS Tiger
06-27-2006, 07:23 PM
Maybe the reason for the smaller than expected hole is something to do with the armour not the weapon, isn't the composition of modern tank armour still secret, or atleast the process in which it is made.

* PG-7VL standard HEAT warhead for most vehicle and fortication targets
* PG-7VR dual HEAT warhead for defeating modern heavily armored vehicles
* TBG-7V thermobaric warhead for anti-personnel and urban warfare
* OG-7V fragmentation warhead for anti-personnel warfare

Topor
06-27-2006, 08:39 PM
The Abrams damage looks like that caused by a "self forging projectile" to me - though of course nobody would supply these munitions to terrorists.........

Dani
06-28-2006, 12:15 AM
Off-route antitank mines:
http://www.tpub.com/content/explosives/TM-43-0001-36/css/TM-43-0001-36_22.htm
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/F5E.HTM
http://www.tpub.com/content/gunsandammo/TM-9-1300-200/css/TM-9-1300-200_151.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/intro/ied-packaged.htm

Lancer44
06-28-2006, 03:17 AM
The Abrams damage looks like that caused by a "self forging projectile" to me - though of course nobody would supply these munitions to terrorists.........

Hi Topor,

Yes! This is what I think.
Are you still sure that "nobody"...?
I would rather say that someone supplied because it's hard to believe
they would be able to develop something like that...

Cheers,

Lancer

2nd of foot
06-28-2006, 09:31 AM
Dani not quite what I was on about. Most modern AT hand held unguided weapons now have a kit to do ambush attacks. The French mine is different and more versatile.

Lancer you seem to be thinking that the penetrator would be big (size of the rocket) this is not the case. The hole would be about 12-15 mm. Also the armour on the vehicle is steel in most places and only Chobham in the most likely areas of attack. The hull would be steel with Chobham attached.

Dani
06-28-2006, 10:41 AM
Dani not quite what I was on about. Most modern AT hand held unguided weapons now have a kit to do ambush attacks. The French mine is different and more versatile.


Oops! I didn't paid full attention to your previous post. Sorry.

Maybe it's about MIACAH F1 or MIACAH F2 off-route French AT mines. I'll try to find something later.
Meantime I found also here http://www.klekoon.com/boamp/BOAMP_3_Detail.asp?ID_appel=137810

Objet du marché:Valorisation de la mine antichar à action horizontale (MIACAH) modèle F 2. Type de marché de fournitures ou de services: achat.

Dani
06-28-2006, 06:30 PM
I figure now that the whole point is that Misznay Schardin plate (or charge).
http://www.omnipelagos.com/entry?n=shaped_charge (scrolling to Self-Forging Fragment)

As for AT mines with this type of warhead, a lot of manufacturers could be found.
Check for instance this mine:
http://www.one-step-beyond.de/en/countries/bosnien/mines/bosnien_mine_tmrp6.html

For French AT mines, MIACAH F1 was manufactured until 1988 and MIACAH F2 was manufactured until 96-97.

Off-route AT mines.
I found an interesting thing here:
http://www.landmine.de/en.titel/en.mineninfos/en.glossar/en.richtmine/index.html


Modern off-route mines work on principle like an unmanned anti-tank grenade launcher. For example the PARM-1 off route mine (picture), manufactured by the Daimler Benz Aerospace "daughter" TDW, is laid manually and is designed to "control" streets, bridges and narrow passages. The mine is situated on a small tripod, and is activated by passing over its 40 meter long fibre optic sensor cable. The "side-attack" mine is equipped with a shaped charge, which explodes in the interior, destroys the vehicle and kills the passengers. Instead of the fibre optic sensor cable the mine can be equiped with a passive infrared sensor. Before measuring the speed of a target, the sensor identifies the direction from which a targets nears. After that a microprocessor calculates the "ideal" moment to fire and activates the mine. Off-route mines are also not prohibited by the Ottawa Convention.

As for the picture of PARM-1:
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8637/parm16yw.jpg