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View Full Version : German weapons in soviet hands and hey, we really looked quite different....



Lancer44
06-27-2006, 03:10 AM
Looking through hundreds of photos from Eastern Front I noticed that they do not really show the truth.
Here a few interesting photos:
Below you can see how people in Poland and Besarabia 1939 and 1940 could see soviet soldiers... Ehhhm, something is in them which remind me of nazis...
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/6058/bylo19396ko.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/6551/bylo193926xo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/79/bylo193930qc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/6808/bylo193948ww.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Last photo is quite interesting.

Cheers,

Lancer44

Edited to add reference:
All pictures from Monthly "Odkrywca". Polish periodical dealing with history, explorations and military archeology.

http://www.odkrywca.pl/index1.php?action=home&sid=11514032648e0b9bdf468161b18ffb2398f07c950c

Dani
06-27-2006, 03:41 AM
Lancer, please add also the references.

Edited for adding the link to the rules:
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44674&postcount=1

Lancer44
06-27-2006, 03:58 AM
Pictures below show utilization of captured German equipment by soviets.
Such practice was widespread on both sides in WWII.
My father told me and I remember pictures, (unfortunately confiscated by Polish SB, after my arrest in Poland 1982), of three Pz-III used in Polish Carpathian Lancers Regiment in Libyan desert 1942. They were captured by British 8-th Army and passed to II-nd Polish Corps.
Used for training they slowly died from lack of spare parts.

Those photographs are quite common. What is unusual, that they are hard to find. After Khrushev demotion, new soviet elite started to create sanitized view of Red Army. No tzarist army helmets, no Land Lease Shermans, no black commissars uniforms...

I dedicate this thread to Zdrager which so far could not answer to my 100% proof that NKVD used german smallarms.

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/3627/bylowaszestalonasze4so.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Pz-38t tanks repaired by soviets on their way to front 1942. Notice that they had been re-armed with Diegtiarev DT machine guns.
It's nice to see that Czechoslovakian technology was appreciated by soviet army.

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/406/bylowaszestalonasze28dt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Pz-IV - 1943 near Orel.

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/9697/bylonieobrebiony1ur.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I never forget old people talking about soviet soldiers having trench coats without hems.
They told me many times and I refused to believe. Old ladies told me about soviet trench coats so badly battered that they looked like todays most fashionable jeans - more stringy stuff and more holes the better.
Above is a proof...

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/5333/bylosoviets19394gr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
And another picture which belong to previous post - soviet troops 1939.


Cheers,

Lancer44

Edited to add reference:
All pictures from Monthly "Odkrywca". Polish periodical dealing with history, explorations and military archeology.

http://www.odkrywca.pl/index1.php?ac...fb2398f07c950c

Dani
06-27-2006, 04:20 AM
Such practice was widespread on both sides in WWII.

Yes, it's true. I remeber the "Beutepanzers".

Nickdfresh
07-18-2006, 04:54 PM
The Germans did this also. Didn't they have an entire unit comprised of T-34s (with swastikas on their Engine compartment to prevent friendly Axis aircraft from strifing them)?

Jasa
07-23-2006, 09:50 AM
Lancer, thanks for those excellent images. Did those come from the Russian AST series? Other than that I don't really see the point you are trying to make here. Is there something sinister about the RKKA changing uniform pieces or utilizing captured weapons? Also, none of those guys look like Commisars. Commisars in WW2 wore a red star with hammer and sickle on the left sleeve I believe. Black was the color of tank troops.

Do you have more of those color sketches?

Lancer44
07-23-2006, 09:38 PM
Lancer, thanks for those excellent images. Did those come from the Russian AST series? Other than that I don't really see the point you are trying to make here. Is there something sinister about the RKKA changing uniform pieces or utilizing captured weapons? Also, none of those guys look like Commisars. Commisars in WW2 wore a red star with hammer and sickle on the left sleeve I believe. Black was the color of tank troops.

Do you have more of those color sketches?

Nothing wrong with changing uniforms. I meant just the rarity of the images.
Those sketches show very nicely RKKA as it was when war started. Not all units had new models of helmets for example.
(Same things with US Army - they had old style WWI helmets when the war started.)
But most of soviet movies show only the latest style. Why?
By black "commisars" uniforms I meant leather jackets - commisars were often wearing them.


I will try to find more sketches for you.

Cheers,

Lancer44

Sturmfuhrer
07-25-2006, 03:22 AM
Lancer44,

You are a bit mistaken:


Those sketches show very nicely RKKA as it was when war started. Not all units had new models of helmets for example.

On pictures you posted soldiers wear SSh-36 helmet (this helmets till 1939), that was introduced only in 1936. It doesn`t refer to "tzarist" times, as you wrote, or WW1. Your pictures dated 1939 or ealier, so it`s quit normal that soldiers are wearing modern helmets.

http://www.rkka.ru/uniform/files/arm5.htm

"By black "commisars" uniforms I meant leather jackets - commisars were often wearing them."

Better more historical books than american films! "Leather jackets" weared tankists and pilots. "Commisars were often wearing them" during civil war in Russia but at that time there was no unified uniform. Komrad Jasa gave exact description.

Lancer44
07-25-2006, 05:02 AM
Lancer44,

You are a bit mistaken:

.

On pictures you posted soldiers wear SSh-36 helmet (this helmets till 1939), that was introduced only in 1936. It doesn`t refer to "tzarist" times, as you wrote, or WW1. Your pictures dated 1939 or ealier, so it`s quit normal that soldiers are wearing modern helmets.

http://www.rkka.ru/uniform/files/arm5.htm

"By black "commisars" uniforms I meant leather jackets - commisars were often wearing them."

Better more historical books than american films! "Leather jackets" weared tankists and pilots. "Commisars were often wearing them" during civil war in Russia but at that time there was no unified uniform. Komrad Jasa gave exact description.

Hi Sturmfuhrer,

Thanks a lot for corrections! It is very good for any discussion and I do not pretend to be not only expert but even barely fluent in topic of soviet uniforms.
I also agree that there was no prescribed uniform for commissars. From various books I remember that they liked to imitate somewhat civil war commisars which is understandable.
And certainly I agree that they were not stupid to wear black leather jackets on the front. Germans had snipers too.

Anyway, thanks for info about helmet - I had no idea! I had been almost sure that they were tzarist time models. Can you post some comparison photos?

The whole idea of this therad come from the point that seeing quite a few soviet war movies I never seen these uniforms nor helmets even if movie was situated in 1941.

Cheers,

Lancer44

Lancer44
07-27-2006, 10:25 PM
You are a bit mistaken:
Better more historical books than american films! "Leather jackets" weared tankists and pilots. "Commisars were often wearing them" during civil war in Russia but at that time there was no unified uniform. Komrad Jasa gave exact description.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2883/schnellheinzfriend1teza8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

So tell me dear Sturmfurer what is this strange, black thing on comrad commissar Krivoshein? Do you think it is vinyl? Or black canvas?
Comrad commisar is proudly standing next to his best friend Schnell Heinz.

I knew that I had this photo posted somwhere - it was in "Funny German pics).

An original source is Wikipedia.

Salute,

Lancer44

Sturmfuhrer
07-28-2006, 12:52 AM
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2883/schnellheinzfriend1teza8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

So tell me dear Sturmfurer what is this strange, black thing on comrad commissar Krivoshein? Do you think it is vinyl? Or black canvas?
Comrad commisar is proudly standing next to his best friend Schnell Heinz.

I knew that I had this photo posted somwhere - it was in "Funny German pics).

An original source is Wikipedia.

Salute,

Lancer44


Be more attentive, on the foto commander of 29 tank brigades S. Krivoshein. Why you decided that it is "comrad commissar Krivoshein"? Krivoshein was a tankist and, as I wrote above, tankysts and pilots used to wear leather jackets as a part of uniform.
BTW this foto from the ceremony of removal of German troops from the Soviet zone in Brest is often encountered in net as well as several other similar.

Sneaksie
07-28-2006, 01:08 AM
Here's photos of various NKVD uniforms
http://www.rkka.ru/uniform/files/i_nkvd.htm

None of these contains black leather coat.

Jasa
07-28-2006, 09:41 AM
Leather jackets were popular with lots of tankers back then, including the POLISH.