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Lancer44
06-15-2006, 10:08 PM
I suggest world wide search for Women in WWII.
Please do not send really ugly ones…
Also no "tragic" photos nor dead females photos. We all know that war is terrible but this thread should be lighthearted.
Funny captions welcomed.
Below first few pics .
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5714/soldluftuftkob9yw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Komm, komm Helmut! I would like to use my rolling pin but Fuhrer said that we have a total war!
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7780/soldiergirlcheese17ck.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
US Army fun.
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6137/soldierwoman220wz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Wehrmacht triple fun…
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3339/soldierwoman1241np.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Wehrmacht single fun…

Lancer44

Lancer44
06-15-2006, 10:15 PM
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4746/soldnachrichtenhelfereincopy4n.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Wow, Luftwaffe fun. Pilots are always lucky. Better food, better uniforms, better pay…
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9550/soldhand1qz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Ja, ja fraulein, it really fit your hand. And I see that you instinctively know how to hold it!
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/5308/soldpanzer2gz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Panzer fun
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5650/soldhardjob5hg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Hard job in the Army...

Lancer44
06-15-2006, 10:45 PM
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3930/soldkmarine2aq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Kriegsmarine fun… (Marinehelferin aus Gotenhafen - Gdynia)
Now I understand why RAF was bombing Gotenhafen so often…
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7237/soldbaloon8yk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Soviet girls and their baloon. I understand that they had to blow it…
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8180/soldredrecon2yq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Soviet recon girls.
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4845/soldcsparatroopers3ub.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Czechoslovakian paratroopers.

SS Tiger
06-16-2006, 08:49 AM
http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/black_and_white/f4oiev.sized.gif

http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/black_and_white/harlingen_texas_wasp.gif

http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/black_and_white/soviet12.jpg

Chevan
06-16-2006, 06:45 PM
Hi lancer
http://www.world-war.ru/foto/albums/userpics/10003/normal_shanina.jpg
The fan of Vasilij Zaitsev
http://www.world-war.ru/foto/albums/userpics/10003/woman.jpg
The stuggle against ...caries!?
http://www.world-war.ru/foto/albums/userpics/10003/mironova.jpg
The last day of major Koning (Elesaveta Muronova)
http://www.world-war.ru/foto/albums/userpics/10003/2nurses.JPG
save the private Sherman

Chevan
06-16-2006, 07:20 PM
http://www.world-war.ru/foto/albums/userpics/10003/Maria.jpg
So where's he, it agreed in 5 o'clock near the bomber . ..
http://www.world-war.ru/foto/albums/userpics/10003/pavli.jpg
Yes, that's goat who promised to marri
http://www.world-war.ru/foto/albums/userpics/10001/Women_strelki.jpg

Lancer44
06-16-2006, 11:41 PM
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/623/frauenfeuerwehr027uy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Hollow Fire Brigade.

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/8048/helferinen4pc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Searchlight crew

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1633/soldb17crew3lx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
B-17 crew US Air Force

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3338/soldireneengland2sp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Cheers,

Lancer44

Dani
06-17-2006, 02:46 AM
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/544/image159856ux.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4408/image80047fh.jpg

Yugoslav partisans women:
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/179/yugoslavwomenpartisanswwii2wd.jpg

George Eller
06-18-2006, 02:22 AM
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Rita Hayworth (October 17, 1918 – May 14, 1987), was an American actress of Spanish and English descent who reached fame during the 1940s as the era's leading sex symbol. She was sometimes called "The Love Goddess" or "The Great American Love Goddess," and was celebrated as an expert dancer and great beauty.

She was born Margarita Carmen Cansino, the daughter of Eduardo Cansino (Sr.) and Volga Haworth in Brooklyn, New York. The Cansinos were a famous family of Spanish dancers working in vaudeville. Their family ancestry were of the Roma people native to Spain. Hayworth was trained as a dancer from childhood, and was on stage by the age of twelve.

First attracting the attention of film producers as part of the dance team "The Dancing Cansinos," Hayworth was signed first by Fox Studios in 1935, then freelanced for several years before signing with Columbia Pictures. After a name change from Rita Cansino to Rita Hayworth, and painful electrolysis to raise her hairline, Rita made a splash as part of the ensemble cast in Howard Hawks' Only Angels Have Wings (1939). The Strawberry Blonde with James Cagney followed in 1941. Finally her sizzling "other woman" part in Rouben Mamoulian's Blood and Sand (1941) with Tyrone Power solidified her new-found stardom.

Hayworth's fame as a beautiful redhead arose from this Technicolor film. The "love goddess" image was cemented with Bob Landry's Life Magazine photograph of her (kneeling on a bed in a nightgown), which caused a sensation and became (at five million copies) one of the most requested wartime pinups. During World War II she ranked with Betty Grable, Dorothy Lamour, Hedy Lamarr, and Lana Turner as the pinup girls most popular with servicemen. Rita would soon become Columbia's biggest star of the 1940s, under the watchful eye of studio chief Harry Cohn.

Above quoted from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Hayworth

SEE ALSO:
http://www.doctormacro.com/Movie%20Star%20Pages/Hayworth,%20Rita.htm
http://www.classicmovies.org/articles/aa101401a.htm
http://www.divasthesite.com/Acting_Divas/Rita_Hayworth.htm
http://glamournet.com/legends/Rita/
http://www.thegoldenyears.org/hayworth.html
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/classic.jsrpages/classic/hayworth/s.htm
http://www.reelclassics.com/Actresses/Hayworth/hayworth.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~claudia79/
http://silverscreensirens.com/rita.htm


http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/9995/ritahayworth01a0by.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/2540/ritahayworth02a8in.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/215/ritahayworth03apb2.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/3675/ritahayworth04a3xq.jpg

A classic.

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George Eller
06-18-2006, 02:58 AM
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Betty Grable (Ruth Elizabeth "Betty" Grable) (December 18, 1916 – July 2, 1973) was an American actress, singer, dancer, and pin-up girl whose sensational bathing-suit photo became the number one pinup of the World War II era. Grable was best known for her shapely gams (legs), which were showcased in all of her Technicolor musicals and famously insured by her studio 20th Century Fox for one million dollars per leg.

Born in St. Louis, Missouri to John C. Grable (the son of German and Dutch immigrants) and Lillian Hoffman (who was of Dutch, Irish and English descent), she was propelled into acting by her mother, who insisted that one of her daughters become a star. Her "Big Break" came when she returned to Hollywood to replace the injured Alice Faye in Zanuck's film Down Argentina Way that was released in 1940, her first color film, and her star continued to rise as "The Screen's Most Beautiful Blonde." Betty Grable would make dozens of routine color musicals for Fox over the next decade and earn the studio over $100 million. She became the No. 1 female box office attraction in 1942, 1943, 1944 and remained in the Top 10 for the next decade.

In 1942, according to Larry Billman, "World War II was raging around the globe and escapist films were being manufactured in Hollywood as quickly as possible. Betty's ingratiating freshness and beauty appealed strongly to the American G.I.s stationed overseas and her films were eagerly requested by the lonely servicemen... Although she never toured outside the United States for the U.S.O., Betty actively participated in War efforts, appearing at Camps across the country and at Bond Rallies where she auctioned off her nylons for thousands of dollars. Volunteering at the Hollywood Canteen, a club for servicemen staffed entirely by film stars and studio workers, she 'Jitterbugged' the night away with hundreds of soldiers, sailors and marines". Her fan mail often reached 10,000 letters per week, and in 1942 she sent 54,000 autographed photos to the soldiers at Camp Robinson, Arkansas, who had sent her 54,000 letters. She dumped boyfriend-actor George Raft and married the bandleader Harry James July 5, 1943. A popular GI slogan during the war became "I want a girl just like the girl that married Harry James." Their daughter Victoria was born March 4, 1944.

It was early in 1943 that Frank Powolny photographed the famous full-length back pose of Betty Grable looking over her shoulder. Many stories have been told about the origin of the most famous "Pin Up" picture in American history: that she was pregnant and tried to hide her stomach; or, that she was finished with the photo session and had turned her back to walk out of the studio, saying "That's it!"; or, that she turned to smile at Darryl F. Zanuck who had entered the studio unexpectedly; or, that it was a costume shot for the film Sweet Rosie O'Grady released Oct. 1, 1943. Whatever the origin, the studio circulated floods of prints of the pose; most were dated "1943" and they became an instant hit. Unlike the French postcards of WWI secretly collected by American doughboys, the pinups of WWII were out in the open and sanctioned by the government. Photos of Rita Hayworth from the Aug. 11, 1941, issue of Life magazine were allowed to decorate airplane cockpits and army barracks. Life had coined the term "pinup" in the July 7, 1941, special issue on National Defense and anointed "Dottie" Lamour as the nation's first official pinup girl. Betty Grable's 1943 image would far surpass these in fame. According to Doug Warren, the Fox studio put "about five million copies of the famous pose in GI hands during the war, and the over-the-shoulder pose was the only one that was used for this purpose. Powolny believes the term 'pinup' was born with this Betty Grable photo. Betty was a representation of the girl-back-home for thousands of homesick young lads. For some, she may have been their only infatuation, the last girl they had ever lusted for, loved, or adored. She was company on a cold night, comfort at times of pain. Betty had an idea she was admired by the GIs, but had no way of knowing exactly how much. It was more than the sexy picture that enamored them of her; there was a magical wholesomeness and substance they saw beyond the curves of her figures. It was her very essence that was loved"

The New York Times wrote Oct. 21, 1943, about her in the film Sweet Rosie O'Grady that it offered "Miss Betty Grable of the legs divine in an hour-and-a-half long display of assorted poses, suitable for pin-up." Zanuck released the film Pin Up Girl on May 10, 1944, to capitalize on the famous photo, and used the photo to publicize many of the wartime films of the Fox studio. Her yearly salary of $320,000 by 1947 made her the highest paid salaried woman in America. However, her contract with Fox ended in 1953 as the studio began to feature a new "blond bombshell" by the name of Marilyn Monroe. Betty moved to Las Vegas and made appearances on television and in nightclubs in the 50s, and on stage in the early 60s. She divorced Harry James in 1965 and suffered financial decline, but continued working on tours and stage shows, and doing TV commercials for Geritol, until her death from cancer in 1973.

Above was a composite quote from the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Grable
http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2TimeLine/bettygrable.html

SEE ALSO:
http://grableonline.tripod.com/
http://www.doctormacro.com/Movie%20Star%20Pages/Grable,%20Betty.htm
http://www.bombshells.com/grable/
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/2440/index-g.html


http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/140/bettygrable010nr.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1479/bettygrable022xq.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5550/bettygrable035gq.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3558/bettygrable048hu.jpg

Betty Grable - nice gams.

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George Eller
06-18-2006, 03:42 AM
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Dorothy Lamour (December 10, 1914 – September 22, 1996) was an American actress, born in New Orleans, Louisiana, died in Hollywood, California.

Lamour's birth name was Mary Leta Dorothy Slaton; Lamour came from a variation of the name of her step-father, Carlo Lambour. After winning the title of Miss New Orleans in a beauty pageant she moved to Chicago, Illinois in 1931, hoping to become a professional singer. She first attracted some attention singing with the band of Herbie Kay, who became her first husband. In 1935, she had her own fifteen-minute weekly musical program on NBC Radio. She also sang on the popular Rudy Vallee radio show.

She was among the most popular actresses in motion pictures from 1936 to 1952. She appeared in the classic series of Road movies, such as Road to Morocco, also starring Bing Crosby and Bob Hope in the 1940s and 1950s. The movies were enormously popular during the 1940's, and they regularly placed among the very top moneymaking films each year as a new one came out.

During the World War II years, Dorothy Lamour was among the most popular pin up girls among American servicemen, along with Betty Grable, Rita Hayworth, Jane Russell, and Lana Turner. Lamour was also largely responsible for starting up the war bond tours in which movie stars would travel the country selling war bonds for the US Government to the public. Lamour alone promoted the sale of over $21 million dollars worth of war bonds, and other stars promoted the sale of a billion more.

Above quoted from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Lamour

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9858/dorothylamour018yw.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6295/dorothylamour022ta.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9809/dorothylamour033pj.jpg

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/8640/dorothylamour049lf.jpg

Buy Bonds.

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George Eller
06-18-2006, 04:48 AM
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British singer Dame Vera Lynn, DBE (born March 20, 1917) career flourished during World War II, when she was nicknamed "The Forces' Sweetheart". She is best known for the popular songs "We'll Meet Again", written by Ross Parker and Hughie Charles, and "The White Cliffs of Dover", words by Nat Burton, music by Walter Kent. She is one of the last surviving major entertainers of the war years.

Lynn was born Vera Margaret Welch in East Ham, London. Later she adopted her grandmother's maiden name Lynn as her stage name. She began singing at the age of seven. Her first radio broadcast, with the Joe Loss Orchestra, was made in 1935. At this point she was being featured on records released by dance bands including Loss's and Charlie Kunz's. In 1936 she made her first solo record on the Crown label, "Up the Wooden Hill to Bedfordshire". This label was soon swallowed up by Decca. After a short stint with Loss she stayed with Kunz for a few years during which she waxed several standards. She later moved to the aristocrat of British dance bands, Bert Ambrose.

Lynn married clarinettist and saxophonist Harry Lewis in 1939, the year World War II broke out. In 1940 she began her own radio series, "Sincerely Yours", sending messages to British troops stationed abroad. In this radio show she and a quartet performed the songs most requested to her by soldiers stationed abroad. She also went into hospitals to interview new mothers and send messages to their husbands overseas. She toured Burma and gave outdoor concerts for soldiers. In 1942 she recorded the Ross Parker/Hughie Charles song "We'll Meet Again" while making the film of the same name. The nostalgic lyrics ("We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when, but I know we'll meet again some sunny day") had a great appeal to the many people separated from loved ones during the war, and it became one of the emblematic songs of the wartime period.

After the war, her "Auf Wiederseh'n Sweetheart" became the first record by a British artist to top the US charts, doing so for nine weeks.

Above quoted from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vera_Lynn

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/379/veralynn010mb.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1813/veralynnazl5.jpg

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2973/veralynn042sd.jpg

Sweetheart of the British Army.

Click below to listen to some of her songs:

I'm Yours Sincerely & We'll Meet Again - Vera Lynn
(live concert for British troops in WW2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iJaOvPIFKA

We'll Meet Again - Vera Lynn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtfpX0uMspQ

The White Cliffs of Dover - Vera Lynn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBIhIpLbWco

There'll Always Be An England - Vera Lynn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ2FOBxshWY

Vera Lynn tribute to WW2 - medley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghcAIxlksAI

BLESS EM ALL - Vera Lynn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXsG2HlC5RI

Land of Hope and Glory - Vera Lynn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNFuAYNxA_8

We'll Meet Again - Vera Lynn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbNMVMAzq-c

World at War Volume14 It's a lovely day tomorrow Burma 1942-1944 part 1
(documentay series) - features interview with Vera Lynn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrB44--ePBM

World at War Volume14 It's a lovely day tomorrow Burma 1942-1944 part 2
(documentay series) - features interview with Vera Lynn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRWJ2TA_S9I

-

SEE ALSO:
http://www.search.com/reference/Vera_Lynn

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George Eller
06-18-2006, 01:57 PM
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Leni Riefenstahl (Berta Helene Amalie "Leni" Riefenstahl) (August 22, 1902 – September 8, 2003) was a German athlete, actress, director and filmmaker widely noted for her aesthetics and advances in film technique. She was Hitler's favorite director. Her most famous films were probably "Triumph of the Will" (which chronicled the 1934 Nazi Party Congress in Nuremberg) and "Olympia" (covering the 1936 Olympics in Berlin). Rejected by the film industry after World War II, she later pursued still photography and continued to make films of marine life.

Above was partial quote from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leni_Riefenstahl

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leni_Riefenstahl
http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/eng/bio.html
http://www.leni-riefenstahl.com/
http://www.helmut-schmidt-online.de/Riefenstahl-Homepage/Leni%20Riefenstahl-Startseite-800.htm

Tribute to Leni Riefenstahl - slide show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PhNMdwvMmA

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8790/leniriefenstahl011wc.jpg

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5093/leniriefenstahl029ww.jpg

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5232/leniriefenstahl038ln.jpg

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7636/leniriefenstahl046ld.jpg

This Alpine skiing is the best Hans.

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George Eller
06-18-2006, 05:47 PM
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Clara Petacci (Claretta Petacci) (February 28, 1912 – April 28, 1945) was a young Roman girl from an upper-class family who became Italian dictator Benito Mussolini's mistress in 1936. Her father had been the personal physician to the Pope. She was twenty-nine years younger than Mussolini.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2336/clarapetacci011vl.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3338/clarapetacci022ch.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5629/clarapetacci037bi.jpg

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/132/clarapetacci083xi.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9557/clarapetacci049vl.jpg

Tragically, she shared his fate when they were executed on April 28, 1945, and their bodies were hung at an Esso gas station in the Piazzale Loreto in Milan.

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Edited by Dani: Last pictures replaced with link.

Lancer44
06-19-2006, 11:56 PM
Hi George,

Very informative post. But thread was intended as funny and lighthearted.
Pics of dead Petacci hardly can be classified as funny.
Also Hollywood pin-ups doesn't really fit image of "normal girls in uniform".
It is unfair US competition to those poor, fat Wehrmacht helferinen. lol

Cheers,

Lancer44

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7334/luftwaafewomanflak6io.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Flak German girls

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6908/soldmutzmadel6ro.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9643/solddukla19444kt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Czechoslovak army girls at Dukla Pass

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4659/soldfraueninuniformen1111nw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Lancer44
06-20-2006, 12:09 AM
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/835/soldfraueninuniformenii1815dl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Kriegsmarine cross dressing...

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7199/soldnicefrench3uo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
This girl is French. Poor thing - most likely this would earn her shaved head after liberation.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/657/soldpolish5le.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Polish private

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9017/soldtraffic4vr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Soviet traffic regulation girl.

Lancer44
06-20-2006, 12:19 AM
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5148/sold2frauii9is.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Frauleins in uniforms...

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1654/sold251torgau1cq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Another pretty soviet traffic regulation.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6711/nursedak8do.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Deutsche Africa Corps nurse receiving Ritter Kreuz.
Who knows her name?

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8741/soldcanad6og.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Canadian "landing" girls

George Eller
06-20-2006, 12:22 AM
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Hi Lancer,

No competition intended - just consider them to also be part of the tapestry of World War II. Later I intend to include the common girls as well.

-

Edith Piaf (December 19, 1915 - October 11, 1963) was one of France's most beloved singers, with much success shortly before and during World War II. Her music reflected her tragic life, with her specialty being the poignant ballad presented with a heartbreaking voice.

She wrote her signature song, La Vie en Rose, in the middle of the German occupation in World War II. During this time, she was in great demand and very successful. Singing for high-ranking Germans at the One Two Two Club earned Édith Piaf the right to pose for photos with French prisoners of war, ostensibly as a morale-boosting exercise. Once in possession of their celebrity photos, prisoners were able to cut out their own images and use them in forged papers as part of escape plans. Today, Édith Piaf's association with the French Resistance is well known and many owe their lives to her. After the war, Édith toured Europe, the United States, and South America, becoming an internationally known figure.

Today she is still remembered and revered as one of the greatest singers France has ever produced. Her life was one of sharp contrasts: the range of her fame as opposed to her tragic personal life, and her fragile small figure on stage with the resounding power of her voice.

Above quoted from: http://great-song-stylists-uk.com/Edith%20Piaf/Edithpiaf.htm

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4193/edithpiaf016kq.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7220/edithpiaf029oc.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8452/edithpiaf030ov.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6370/edithpiaf049nv.jpg

The Little Sparrow of France.

Click here to listen to some of her songs:
http://great-song-stylists-uk.com/Edith%20Piaf/Edithpiaf2.htm

Soiree au Gaumont Palace - 1943 - video clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWny-ikO89c

Edith Piaf - Hymne à L'Amour - video clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjR5xFZxZK8

PIAF - NON JE NE REGRETTE RIEN - vidio clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_QABS88nDc

Edith Piaf - La Vie En Rose - 1954 - video clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-sUzR71wpQ

-

There is a new movie about Edith Piaf. The title is La Vie en Rose

Check out the official movie site with trailers:

http://www.edithpiafmovie.com/

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Lancer44
06-20-2006, 07:28 AM
Edith Piaf - incredible voice...
Question to Noble Moderators and Gentry Admins:
How to place link to a song, enabling younger members of the forum listening to?

Songs and music are integral part of WWII atmosphere or (like George Eller would say), tapestry of WWII. Very good meaning!
Can we do something in this regard?
I can't wait to post "We'll hang our washing on the Siegfried Line..."

Cheers,

Lancer44

Dani
06-20-2006, 07:35 AM
Hi Lancer,
If the song is copyrighted, bad luck.
If not, you could easily find a file hosting server and upload that file. (see Panzerknacker's video posts).

Lancer44
06-20-2006, 07:44 AM
Hi Lancer,
If the song is copyrighted, bad luck.
If not, you could easily find a file hosting server and upload that file. (see Panzerknacker's video posts).

Hi Dani,

Thanks for advice. Copyright may be a problem but not for songs which I want to post! Thanks!

Enjoy weather in your lovely Bucharest!
Can you buy strawberries now? How much they cost?

Lancer44

Dani
06-20-2006, 08:16 AM
Off-topic: In the market (not in the store!) 1-2 EUR/kg

Lancer44
06-20-2006, 08:53 AM
Off-topic: In the market (not in the store!) 1-2 EUR/kg

Off topic: In the market are the best - they taste like real strawberries!
Not bad price. Here in Oz - 1 EUR for 200 grams of New Zealand hydroponic stuff...
Queensland strawberries are hopeless if from hydroponics farms. Real ones around October/November are great and cost about 1/2 EUR for 100 grams.

Cheers,

Lancer44

Kovalski
06-20-2006, 03:50 PM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/brodarito/z369_2.jpg
Janina Zubryd, member of National Armed Forces (Narodowe Sily Zbrojne - polish anti-nazi and anti-communist ressistance). Killed by communists in 1946.

George Eller
06-21-2006, 10:48 PM
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Marlene Dietrich (December 27, 1901 – May 6, 1992) was a German-born actress, entertainer and singer.

Since leaving Berlin in 1930 until her last concert in Australia she traveled again and again to France, Austria, Switzerland and later, while being on large tours, around the whole world. "We always lived out of a suitcase", summarized her lover Erich Maria Remarque somewhat resigning.

On March 6, 1937 Dietrich became an American citizen. In 1941 the U.S. entered the Second World War and Dietrich became one of the first celebrities to raise war bonds. She entertained troops on the front lines in a USO revue that included future TV pioneer Danny Thomas as her opening act. Dietrich was known to have strong political convictions and the mind to speak them. Like many Weimar era German entertainers, she was a staunch anti-Nazi who despised anti-Semitic policies of National Socialism.

One of the greatest offers she refused, was the idea of Adolf Hitler to bring her back to the Third Reich to make films of her choice. This also meant saying no to the Nazi regime. During World War II Dietrich refused to work in Germany despite personal appeals made by Adolf Hitler, and her films were temporarily banned there.

During the war Marlene toured the European war front and worked tirelessly entertaining the troops in USO shows. She was awarded the Medal of Freedom and made a Knight and Officer of the Légion d'Honneur. Her enjoyment of the USO shows paved the way for her public appearances.

Her singing helped on the homefront of the USA too, as she recorded a number of anti-Nazi records in German for the OSS, including Lili Marlene, a curious example of a song transcending the hatreds of war. She also played the musical saw to entertain troops. From 1943 to 1946 she made more than 500 personal appearances before Allied troops. She sang for the Allied troops on the front lines in Algiers, France and into Germany with Generals James M. Gavin and George S. Patton. When asked why she had done this, in spite of the obvious danger of being within a few kilometers of German lines, she famously replied "aus Anstand" – "it was the decent thing to do".

The relations to Germany remained tense; since the death of her mother, on whose funeral she participated in Berlin in 1945, Marlene Dietrich never visited Germany again. In the Germany of the Adenauer era an independent, especially an erotically independent woman was regarded as indecent. Marlene Dietrich played soon after the end of the war in Billy Wilder's film "A foreign affair", the destroyed Berlin served as the setting for a sarcastic comedy about the affair an American soldier had with the former lover of a member of the SS. The dress Marlene Dietrich, who played the lover, was wearing in this film was similar to the one she wore when she appeared in front of the American soldiers. Many Germans - who welcomed the Americans as a protecting power and allied – took amiss in the fact, that Marlene Dietrich didn’t stand by the Germans during the war, but supported the Americans in their struggle against the "Dritte Reich".

Above was a composite of quotes from the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlene_Dietrich
http://www.marlenedietrich.net/bio.html
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9030401
http://www.falling-in-love-again.com/marlene-en.htm
http://www.hco.hagen.de/ausstellung/marlene/engl8.htm
http://www.hco.hagen.de/ausstellung/marlene/engl9.htm
http://www.hco.hagen.de/ausstellung/marlene/engl10.htm
http://www.greatwar.nl/remarque/remarque-eng.html

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http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/2640/marlenedietrich1aa2ld.jpg

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8787/marlenedietrich01b2ek.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9641/marlenedietrich02a0vw.jpg

Bottom right corner:
With her lover Erich Maria Remarque - a German veteran of First World War and author of the famous novel "All Quiet on the Western Front". He also left Germany and lived in the United States during World War II.
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http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8819/marlenedietrich03a7kp.jpg

Click here to listen to her sing Lili Marlene in English and in German:
http://www.rhs51.com/kenwolleat/lilli13.ram
http://www.rhs51.com/kenwolleat/lilli5.ram

A nice video/music tribute to Marlene Dietrich at YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtPBv0KEQNc

Lili Marlene in German and English by various artists:
http://www.rhs51.com/lillimarlene.htm

The Official Lili Marleen Page - Various Artists in German, English and other languages:
http://ingeb.org/garb/lmarleen.html

Lili Marlene - Lyrics:
http://ingeb.org/Lieder/lilimarl.html

A woman of conscience and a great American.

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George Eller
06-24-2006, 01:53 AM
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Eva Braun (Eva Anna Paula Braun) (February 6, 1912 – April 30, 1945) was the longtime companion and, briefly, wife of Adolf Hitler.

Born in Munich, Germany, Braun was the daughter of a school teacher from a respectable Bavarian family. She was educated at a lyceum, then for one year at a business school in a convent where she had average grades. She worked for several months as a receptionist a medical office, then at age seventeen took a job as an office and lab assistant for Heinrich Hoffmann, the official photographer for the Nazi Party. She met Hitler there in 1929 and is said to have slipped a love letter into his pocket. He had been introduced to her as "Herr Wolff" (a childhood nickname he used during the 1920s for security purposes). She described him to friends as a "gentleman of a certain age with a funny moustache, a light-coloured English overcoat, and carrying a big felt hat." At that time Eva Braun still worked for Hoffmann as an office assistant, later becoming a photo laboratory worker, helping to process pictures of Hitler. The blonde, fresh-faced, slim, photographer's assistant was an athletic girl, fond of skiing, mountain climbing and gymnastics as well as dancing.

After the death of Geli Raubal, Hitler's niece, she became his mistress, living in his Munich flat, in spite of the opposition of her father who disliked the association on political and personal grounds. In 1935, after an abortive suicide attempt, Hitler bought her a villa in a Munich suburb, near to his own home, providing her with a Mercedes and a chauffeur for personal use. In his first will of 2 May 1938 he put her at the top of his personal bequests - in the event of his death she was to receive the equivalent of £600 a year for the rest of her life.

In 1936 she moved to Hitler's Berghof at Berchtesgaden where she acted as his hostess. Reserved, indifferent to politics and keeping her distance from most of the Fuhrer's intimates, Eva Braun led a completely isolated life in the Fuhrer's Alpine retreat and later in Berlin. They rarely appeared in public together and few Germans even knew of her existence. There is some indication that this, along with their not having married early in their relationship, was due to Hitler's fear that he would lose popularity among female supporters. The German people were entirely unaware of Eva Braun and her relationship with Hitler until after the war.

According to the memoirs of Albert Speer, Eva Braun never slept in the same room as Hitler and was always given her own bedroom at the Berghof, in Hitler's Berlin residence and in the Berlin bunker. Speer commented:
Eva Braun was allowed to be present during visits from old party associates. She was banished as soon as other dignitaries of the Reich, such as cabinet ministers, appeared at the table ... Hitler obviously regarded her as socially acceptable only within strict limits. Sometimes I kept her company in her exile, a room next to Hitler's bedroom. She was so intimidated that she did not dare leave the house for a walk. Out of sympathy for her predicament I soon began to feel a liking for this unhappy woman, who was so deeply attached to Hitler.

By early April 1945 Braun had driven to Berlin from Munich to be with Hitler at the Führerbunker. She refused to leave as the Red Army closed in, insisting she was one of the only people loyal to him left in the world. Hitler and Braun were married on April 29, 1945 during a brief civil ceremony witnessed by Joseph Goebbels and Martin Bormann; the bride wore a blue silk dress.

With her marriage her legal name changed to Eva Hitler. When Eva signed her marriage certificate, she first wrote her family name Braun, then lined this out and replaced it with Hitler. Moreover, although bunker personnel were instructed to call her Frau Hitler, Adolf Hitler himself continued to call Eva Fräulein Braun.

There was gossip among the Führerbunker staff that Eva was carrying Hitler's child, but there has never been any evidence to support this claim. Braun and Hitler committed suicide together on the 30th, by swallowing a cyanide capsule. She was 33. Their corpses were burned with gasoline in the Reich Chancellery garden.

Above was a composite quote from the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Braun
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/braun.html

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http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7206/evabraun01a5fe.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2351/evabraun02a2rv.jpg

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4356/evabraun03a5up.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2493/evabraun04a2qn.jpg
Fun times at the mansion.

Note: The laughing woman on the right has been identified as Maria "Mitzi" Reiter, one of Hitler's early romantic interests. (Thanks to Ingsoc for pointing this out)

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Lancer44
06-24-2006, 07:27 AM
Great job, as always, dear George!

Thanks a lot!

Lancer44

George Eller
06-24-2006, 03:42 PM
Great job, as always, dear George!

Thanks a lot!

Lancer44

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Thanks Lancer :)

And thank you for initiating so many interesting topics for these threads.

Take Care,
George

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Lancer44
06-25-2006, 08:54 PM
Continuing thread of Ladies in WWII I want to show you Inge Ley, wife of German Labour Front chairman Robert Ley.
I just wonder how this ugly nazi managed to pick up that beautiful women.
The power of the position is incredible...
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/2645/ingarobertleyphilippbouhler922.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/4702/drleyandwife1200iv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Chevan
06-26-2006, 12:50 PM
Continuing thread of Ladies in WWII I want to show you Inge Ley, wife of German Labour Front chairman Robert Ley.
I just wonder how this ugly nazi managed to pick up that beautiful women.
The power of the position is incredible...

But you did see her without the cosmetic? There can be they approach to each other.

George Eller
06-27-2006, 12:17 AM
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French Resistance

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/725/frenchresistance011ft.jpg
From: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005, p 39

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/6476/frenchresistance022ip.jpg
Paris on the eve of liberation, 1944.

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/6978/frenchresistance037px.jpg

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Italian Partisans

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/1426/italianpartisans017zr.jpg

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George Eller
06-28-2006, 12:13 AM
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Collaborators


http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/4761/collaborators019mw.jpg
"This girl pays the penalty for having had personal relations with the Germans. Here, in the Montelimar area of France, French civilians shave her head as punishment."
Photo Credit: National Archives and Records Administration, item 111-SC-193785. Smith, photographer, August 29, 1944.
http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery/WW2106.htm
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http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/6115/collaborators048bw.jpg
"Collaborators with shaven heads are paraded through the town by the French resistance on Bastille Day."
Photo credit: National Archives, courtesy of USHMM Photo Archives
http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery2/81857.htm
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http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/8875/collaborators039nc.jpg
"Belgian women who collaborated with the Germans during the occupation are forced to give the Nazi salute before their jeering countrymen. The women's heads were all shaven as part of their public humiliation."
Photo credit: Belgium National Archives
http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/GALL31R/82885.htm
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http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/9468/collaborators021fy.jpg
"Women accused of collaborating with the Germans wait to be marched through the streets of Grave by the Dutch resistance. The womens' heads were shaved in preparation for their public humiliation."
Photo credit: Netherlands National Archives
http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/GALL31R/81875.htm

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George Eller
06-29-2006, 12:14 AM
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http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/4927/frenchresistance073fw.jpg
From: Life At War, Editors of Time-Life, Time-LifeBooks, 1977, p 151
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http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7341/frenchresistance064bm.jpg
From: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005, p 57
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http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1342/frenchresistance050ju.jpg
From: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005, p 55
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http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1244/dutchchildren014wu.jpg
Little Ladies and Gents - cute huh.
From: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005, p 57

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Dani
06-29-2006, 12:26 AM
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http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1244/dutchchildren014wu.jpg
Little Ladies and Gents - cute huh.
From: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005, p 57

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I declare one of my favourite picture. Thanks George:)

George Eller
06-29-2006, 12:41 AM
I declare one of my favourite picture. Thanks George:)
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You're welcome Dani - it's precious isn't it. ;)

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Lancer44
06-29-2006, 02:41 AM
Fantastic material! George, Thanks!

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1754/soldzydghetto0gk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Jewish woman from Warsaw ghetto captured by Germans. I'm not too good in reading gothic and cannot decipher her name.
I can only guess that there is a sad story after this photo was taken.

Lancer44

George Eller
06-29-2006, 10:44 AM
Fantastic material! George, Thanks!

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1754/soldzydghetto0gk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Jewish woman from Warsaw ghetto captured by Germans. I'm not too good in reading gothic and cannot decipher her name.
I can only guess that there is a sad story after this photo was taken.

Lancer44
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Thanks Lancer :)


You know I was thinking of posting Jewish women from WWII. Nice pic above.
No doubt you are correct about her fate. Very sad.

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Ingsoc
06-29-2006, 01:29 PM
In regards of the Eva Braun pics posted by George Eller, in the last pic the girl that is with Hitler is not Eva Braun but Maria Reiter, who was his lover before Eva.

George Eller
06-29-2006, 05:22 PM
In regards of the Eva Braun pics posted by George Eller, in the last pic the girl that is with Hitler is not Eva Braun but Maria Reiter, who was his lover before Eva.
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Hi Ingsoc,

Are you sure? According to the caption for that photo it was taken on Hitler's 50th birthday 1939. Eva Braun was already involved with him by that time.

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/2011/evabraun051aq.jpg
Hitler on his 50th birthday
-- April, 1939

http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/html/sub/mshwmsc1.htm
Click on miscellaneous photos link toward the bottom of page

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Ingsoc
06-29-2006, 09:51 PM
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Hi Ingsoc,

Are you sure? According to the caption for that photo it was taken on Hitler's 50th birthday 1939. Eva Braun was already involved with him by that time.

http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/photos/hitlerb.jpg
Hitler on his 50th birthday
-- April, 1939

http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/html/sub/mshwmsc1.htm
Click on miscellaneous photos link toward the bottom of page

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It's a very common mistake to identify her as Eva Braun, see in this link - http://www.thirdreichruins.com/berghofvisitors.htm

Here another picture of her with Hitler

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8413/hitlerandmariareiter26xl.jpg

As you can see she looks nothing like Eva Braun

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3586/comparison8bl.jpg

Lancer44
06-29-2006, 10:05 PM
Paula Hitler fit very nicely into our thread and I hope you also will be interested in reading interview with her.
Her brother Adolf forced her to change name to Paula Wolf.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6944/paulahitler0hm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8886/paulaw15yy.gif (http://imageshack.us)

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2448/paulaw27na.gif (http://imageshack.us)

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5456/paulaw34pk.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Born in 1896 in Hartfeld, Austria, younger sister of the German Führer and the fifth and last child of Alios and Klara Hitler. At one time she worked as a secretary for a group of doctors in a military hospital but kept her identity a secret. When she would see a small chapel when traveling in the mountains, she would go in and say a silent prayer for her brother. Each year Hitler would send her a ticket to the impressive Nuremberg Rally. In March, 1941, Hitler was staying at the Imperial Hotel in Vienna and it was here that Paula met him for the last time. It was always her opinion that it was a pity her brother had not become the architect he always wanted to be. Paula was seven years younger than her brother, but he never mentioned her in his writings because of his embarrassment at her weak mental state.
Until the last weeks of the war, Paula Hitler lived in Vienna where she worked in an arts and craft shop and when the war ended was interviewed by US Intelligence officers in May, 1945. Reluctant to talk she said tearfully, "Please remember, he was my brother". She lived under the name of Frau Wolf (Hitler's nickname) a name he asked her to adopt after the Anschluss with Austria in 1938. After the war, it was discovered that she was once engaged to an Austrian, Dr. Erwin Jekelius, one of the Third Reich's euthanasia doctors, but when he approached Hitler for permission to marry he was promptly arrested and sent to the Russian front where he was reportedly killed. Paula lived unmarried in a two bedroom flat near Berchtesgaden, her main interest being the Catholic Church. She died on June 1, 1960 without ever being invited to the Berghof. Her grave is in the Bergfriedhof in Berchtesgaden.

Edited to add text

Cheers,

Lancer44

George Eller
06-30-2006, 12:48 AM
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It's a very common mistake to identify her as Eva Braun, see in this link - http://www.thirdreichruins.com/berghofvisitors.htm

Here another picture of her with Hitler

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8413/hitlerandmariareiter26xl.jpg

As you can see she looks nothing like Eva Braun

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3586/comparison8bl.jpg
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Hi Ingsoc,

Thanks - I checked the link above and this is the caption:

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/2011/evabraun051aq.jpg
The laughing lady in the photo on the right, seen with Hitler in the Mooslahnerkopf Teehaus, is sometimes labeled as Herta Schneider, and sometimes even as Eva Braun, but she doesn't look like either one to me; one source has identified her as the wife of Albert Forster, Gauleiter of Danzig. (NA RG 242-EB and 242-2512)

NOTE: Thanks to André van Deun and Rick Hader for identifying the woman on the right as Maria "Mitzi" Reiter, one of Hitler's early romantic interests.


By the way - excellent link for Eva Braun photographs. Thanks. :)

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George Eller
06-30-2006, 01:01 AM
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Hi Lancer,

Fascinating article on Paula Hitler (aka Paula Wolff). Very nicely done.

Thanks. :)

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Ingsoc
06-30-2006, 04:32 AM
German women during the war.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8498/soldierwithtwoukrainianpeasant.th.jpg (http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=soldierwithtwoukrainianpeasant.jpg)

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2456/germanwomen1721dl.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=germanwomen1721dl.jpg)

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/8462/soldierandagirl9wd.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=soldierandagirl9wd.jpg)

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/5596/soldierandgirl7ea.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=soldierandgirl7ea.jpg)

SS Tiger
06-30-2006, 12:29 PM
It's a very common mistake to identify her as Eva Braun, see in this link - http://www.thirdreichruins.com/berghofvisitors.htm

Here another picture of her with Hitler

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8413/hitlerandmariareiter26xl.jpg

As you can see she looks nothing like Eva Braun

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3586/comparison8bl.jpg Thanks for posting that site, not only is the section on Eva interesting but the then and now section is very interesting!

Firefly
06-30-2006, 02:28 PM
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread and continues to do so. This has been for me a very informative and interesting thread. I have to admit that Hedey Lamar and Marlene do something for me (not as they are now though!).

George Eller
07-01-2006, 03:55 AM
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Hedy Lamarr (November 9, 1913 – January 19, 2000) was an actress and communications technology innovator. She was known for her great beauty on camera, and also for co-inventing the first form of spread spectrum, a key to modern wireless communication.

Lamarr was born Hedwig Eva Maria Kiesler to a Jewish family in Vienna, Austria, on November 9, 1913, and died in 2000 in Altamonte Springs, Florida (near Orlando, Orange County, Florida) of natural causes at the age of 86.

While married to her first husband, Friedrich Mandl, aka Fritz Mandl, an arms manufacturer, she socialized with Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini. She also became educated technically in his trade. Mandl was obsessed with his wife and never let her out of his sight. She hated him and his Nazi friends and finally escaped to London by drugging him and the French maid he had hired to spy on her. Ironically, Mandl was from a Jewish background. Whether the Nazis ever knew about Mandl's and Lamarr's Jewish origins has been debated by historians; Friedrich Mandl came from an extremely assimilated family and it appears that he overtly hid his Jewish origins, and he converted to Christianity under evident pressure. Many also say that Lamarr's co-invention of spread spectrum as a potential World War II military application was sparked by her desire to do anything in her power to help see Nazism defeated.

She met Louis B. Mayer in London. He hired her and changed her name to Hedy Lamarr, the surname in homage to a famously beautiful film star of the silent era, Barbara LaMarr, who had died of a drug overdose in 1926. She had already appeared in several European films, including Ecstasy (1933), in which she played a love-hungry young wife of an indifferent old husband. Closeups of her face in passion, and long shots of her running nude through the woods, gave the film notoriety. She also gained notoriety as one of the first actresses to bare her breasts in a major film. Mandl bought up as many copies of the film as he could possibly find, as he objected to her nudity, as well as "the expression on her face."

In Hollywood, she appeared in many films, usually cast as glamorous and seductive, including Algiers (1938), White Cargo, and Tortilla Flat (both 1942), based on the novel by John Steinbeck. In 1941 she was cast alongside two other Hollywood beauties Lana Turner and Judy Garland in a musical extravaganza Ziegfeld Girl (1941), Her biggest success came in Cecil B. DeMille's Samson and Delilah (1949) with Victor Mature as the Biblical strongman. Unfortunately, she was more used for her stunning exotic beauty than her ability as an actress.

Lamarr became a naturalized citizen of the United States on April 10, 1953.

Above quoted from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr
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SEE ALSO:

Female Inventors - Hedy Lamarr
http://www.inventions.org/culture/female/lamarr.html
http://members.tripod.com/~earthdude1/hedy_lamarr/lamarr.html
http://www.hedylamarr.com/about/biography.htm

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http://img414.imageshack.us/img414/2341/hedylamarr01a8pe.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6870/hedylamarr02a5ln.jpg

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/5729/hedylamarr03a8qp.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1203/hedylamarr04a5sm.jpg

Beauty and Brains.

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Ingsoc
07-01-2006, 05:40 AM
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6711/nursedak8do.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Deutsche Africa Corps nurse receiving Ritter Kreuz.
Who knows her name?

First of all she wear the EK2 and Afrika Korps cuff titles, no woman won the RK the highest award a women receive was the EK1, she is the DRK nurse Ilse Schulz.

Lancer44
07-02-2006, 01:44 AM
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Hi Lancer,

Fascinating article on Paula Hitler (aka Paula Wolff). Very nicely done.

Thanks. :)

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Hi George,

My pleasure as always. I hope you and other friends will also enjoy the next female personality... Goebbels mistress Lida Baarova.

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/8443/geblidabaarova0bp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

LIDA BAAROVÁ, who has died in 2000, aged 90, was a Czech film star greatly admired by Dr Josef Goebbels, the Nazi Minister of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3410/gebincol6ca.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

They met at a party in 1934, the year before her first German film Barcarole made her a household name in Germany. Lida Baarová certainly suited Goebbels, who became obsessed with her. "He told me he loved me time and again," she recalled 60 years later, "and I felt his eyes burning into my back every time we were in the same room together." The Fuhrer too, she vouchsafed, was given to staring mutely in her direction; indeed, when he visited her film studio he seemed to her to be mesmerised. Shortly afterwards he invited her to tea.

She arrived at the wheel of her BMW, which (as she remembered) Hitler seemed to consider rather too liberated. On this occasion, however, he found his tongue to the extent of telling her that she reminded him of Gerri Raubel who, he encouragingly explained, had committed suicide on his account. Another time, Hitler told her that she should become a citizen of the Reich: "You could do well for yourself," he promised. But Lida Baarová remained immune to these blandishments, telling him that she preferred to remain a Czech. The tea invitations ceased.

Dr Goebbels's fires, however, burned ever fiercer. He lived only three doors along from the house on Lake Wannsee which Lida Baarová shared with Gustav Froehlich, her co-star in Barcarole. Though Lida Baarová always emphasised the innocence of her relations with Goebbels - "why would I be interested in a 36-year-old father of five when I was a 20-year-old beautiful woman with men falling at my feet?" - somehow Froehlich was never convinced.

Hermann Goring placed a wiretap on Lida Baarová's telephone, and enjoyed spreading scandalous stories about her and Goebbels in the highest Nazi circles. Himmler also liked to tell how there were lines of women waiting to swear how Goebbels had coerced them: "I've turned the choicest statements over to the Fuhrer." Goebbels himself felt the necessity to tell his wife Magda about his infatuation. Magda complained to Emmy Goring that her husband was "the devil incarnate". But she did not stop there, inviting Lida Baarová round to accuse her to her face of having an affair with her husband. "Don't worry," Lida Baarová returned, "I'm not interested in him."

Magda Goebbels was no more convinced than Gustav Froehlich had been, and in 1938 complained about her husband to the Fuhrer, who ordered Goebbels never to see Lida Baarová again. Goebbels's lust was strong, but his devotion to the Fuhrer still stronger. He sighed as a lover; he obeyed as a Propaganda Minister.

Meanwhile, the jealous Gustav Froehlich was rumoured to have struck Goebbels in the face, and challenged him to a duel. Hitler, furious at the scandal, banned Lida Baarová's films and expelled her from Berlin. Wisely, she escaped to Prague.

There are numerous versions and rumours about Baarova-Goebbels affair.

Here article by Peter Conradi, Times, October 31, 2000

Goebbels mistress tells tales from the grave


By Peter Conradi

"THEIRS was one of the most dramatic and dangerous love affairs of the Third Reich. A glamorous Czech actress who became Josef Goebbels's mistress and fled Germany after his wife denounced them to Hitler has described her turbulent relationship with the Nazi propaganda chief for the first time.

In her autobiography, The Sweet Bitterness of My Life, to be published posthumously in Germany next month, Lida Baarova writes of life in the Nazi upper echelons, where elegantly dressed ministers mingled with the film world elite.

The actress, who died alone in poverty in November aged 86, reveals that Goebbels's wife, Magda, proposed a ménage à trois to save her marriage but Hitler ordered an end to the two-year affair on the grounds that it could damage the Nazis' image as guardians of traditional family values.

It was Hitler who first fell for Baarova, then 20, during a visit in 1934 to a film set in Berlin. Three days later she was summoned to tea at the chancellery. He said she reminded him of somebody both "beautiful and tragic" in his life. To her horror, she later realised this was Hitler's former lover and half-niece, Angela Raubal, who was found dead in her Munich flat in 1931, aged 23, after shooting herself in the heart with a pistol.

Several more meetings followed, despite the protests of Gustav Fröhlich, a jealous actor with whom Baarova was living. But the Führer did not press himself on her.

She and Goebbels first met in 1936 during the Berlin Olympics in the city's opulent Schwanenwerder suburb, where Goebbels had rented a villa near Fröhlich's. Baarova was attracted immediately.

"His voice seemed to go straight into me," she said. "I felt a light tingling in my back, as if his words were trying to stroke my body."

There were other meetings on Goebbels's yacht Baldur, and he invited her to hear him speak at a Nazi congress. He promised to touch his face with a white handkerchief during the speech as a sign of his devotion.

Panicking, Baarova decided to leave town. But as her train waited at the station, a messenger arrived with roses and the minister's picture. "He was a master of the hunt, whom no-body and nothing could escape," she said.

For months Goebbels pursued her relentlessly, inviting her for trips in his chauffeur-driven limousine or visits to his log cabin on the shores of Lake Lanke outside Berlin.

Although their relationship was platonic for a long time, she tried to hide it from Fröhlich. When Goebbels rang he left messages as Herr Müller and hung up if the actor answered. One winter evening in the cabin, however, before a blazing fire he kissed her for the first time, saying: "I have never in my life been so in-flamed with love for a woman."

They met whenever he could get away from his wife. Baarova recalled his mood swings dramatically. Sometimes he amused her with Hitler impressions, at others he expressed doubts about Nazi ideology.

Rumours of their relationship spread after Goebbels bailed out one of Baarova's films. Then Fröhlich arrived home to find them on the road to the villa. He berated Goebbels and left Baarova soon afterwards.

His impertinence did not go unpunished. Goebbels later took revenge by removing his exemption from military service and sending him to war.

In the autumn of 1938, however, Goebbels had telephoned Baarova, saying he had confessed to his wife, and wanted the two women to meet. Magda Goebbels was distraught when they were introduced, and suggested sharing her husband.

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/1126/gebmagda4eo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

"I am the mother of his children, I am only interested in this house in which we live," she said. "What happens outside does not concern me. But you must promise me one thing: you must not have a child by him."

Goebbels appeared with gifts of jewellery for both women as if to cement the love triangle. But Magda told Hitler and Goebbels was summoned to the Führer. "My wife is a devil," he told Baarova.

Early the next morning he rang again, weeping. Hitler had refused his request for a divorce and forbidden him to see her. "I love you, Liduschka," he said. "I cannot live without you."

The propaganda machine swung into gear. Newspapers published pictures of the Goebbels family, and Goebbels rehabilitated himself with Hitler by orchestrating Kristallnacht, an orgy of violence in November 1938 when Jewish property across Germany was destroyed.

Baarova was called to a police station and told she was barred from appearing in films or plays and even from attending social functions. She was pursued by the Gestapo, who organised hecklers to shout "Whore", when she defiantly attended the premiere of her film, Der Spieler (The Player).

Baarova returned to Prague, disobeying an order from Hitler's adjutant to remain in Germany. She was on a Nazi blacklist, however, and it became more difficult for her to work. In 1942 she moved to Italy and resumed her career.

She saw Goebbels one last time at the 1942 Venice film festival. He ignored her. "He must have recognised me, but he did not make a single movement," she said. "He was always the master of self-control."

In 1945 Baarova was arrested by the Americans and briefly imprisoned for collaboration. Goebbels and his wife stayed with Hitler in his bunker, taking their own lives and those of their six children on May 1 as the Russians swept into Berlin"

Lancer44
07-02-2006, 02:10 AM
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5890/gebfamwharald5mv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Geobbels family. All kids were poisoned by Magda Goebbels. Men in Luftwaffe uniform is Harald Quandt, Magda's son from her first marriage. He survived the war and as wealthy industrialist become one of the richest man in post-war Germany.

Magda also had affairs (including one with Joseph's deputy Karl Hanke) and there is evidence that at some point they had agreed to have an open marriage.

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1871/goebbelschildren5lh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Notions about marriage triangle and open marriage of Joseph Goebbels are particularly interesting. Let's say Goebbels was not exactly as handsome as Gregory Peck... also not as sporty type as Smooth Heini (Heinrich Himmler).
Magda's revange affair with fanatical Karl Hanke is very mysterious too.
Karl Hanke - defender of Breslau and last Reichsfuerer SS...
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6137/gebkarlhanke6td.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hanke never learned about his promotion to the highest SS rank, he was executed by Czech or Polish partisans in May 1945.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1778/gebbaarova0oe.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Left - Lida Baarova. Right - Goebbels family.


Cheers Lancer44

George Eller
07-02-2006, 11:32 AM
-

Hi Lancer,

Excellent work as usual. I wonder how the German people would have reacted if they knew the truth about the Third Reich's "model family". The story would probably make a great TV miniseries.

Interesting too about the rivalries at the top. "Hermann Goring placed a wiretap on Lida Baarová's telephone, and enjoyed spreading scandalous stories about her and Goebbels in the highest Nazi circles. Himmler also liked to tell how there were lines of women waiting to swear how Goebbels had coerced them: "I've turned the choicest statements over to the Fuhrer."

Have you ever seen the movie Downfall? I remember watching the special features on the DVD after watching the movie and noted that the German actress who played Magda Goebbels explained how difficult it was for her emotionally preparing for her role - that Magda Goebbels could bring herself to poison all of her children was particularly troubling to her.

Downfall

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2057/downfall8sm.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009RCPUC/ref=pd_bxgy_img_b/102-9661992-1376916?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130

Editorial Reviews

Amazon.com
The riveting subject of Downfall is nothing less than the disintegration of Adolf Hitler in mind, body, and soul. A 2005 Academy Award nominee for best foreign language film, this German historical drama stars Bruno Ganz (Wings of Desire) as Hitler, whose psychic meltdown is depicted in sobering detail, suggesting a fallen, pathetic dictator on the verge on insanity, resorting to suicide (along with Eva Braun and Joseph and Magda Goebbels) as his Nazi empire burns amidst chaos in mid-1945. While staging most of the film in the claustrophobic bunker where Hitler spent his final days, director Oliver Hirschbiegel (Das Experiment) dares to show the gentler human side of der Fuehrer, as opposed to the pure embodiment of evil so familiar from many other Nazi-era dramas. This balanced portrayal does not inspire sympathy, however: We simply see the complexity of Hitler's character in the greater context of his inevitable downfall, and a more realistic (and therefore more horrifying) biographical portrait of madness on both epic and intimate scales. By ending with a chilling clip from the 2002 documentary Blind Spot: Hitler's Secretary, this unforgettable film gains another dimension of sobering authenticity. --Jeff Shannon

From The New Yorker
The great Swiss-German actor Bruno Ganz gives a staggering performance as Adolf Hitler in this full-scale realist German production detailing the last ten days of the Third Reich. As the Red Army rampages through Berlin, Hitler and his staff have retreated to the bunker under the Reich Chancellery. They are all here-Himmler, Goebbels, Speer, the entire fascinating, loathsome crew of commanders, mad visionaries, and toadies (all brilliantly acted)-and, leading them still, a man so physically ill and constricted in movement that he looks like a broken-down puppet from a Bavarian travelling circus. The puppet comes to life, of course, in appalling self-pitying rants that are borderline funny. The entire movie teeters on the edge of sick comedy-in particular such scenes as the death of the Goebbels children, one by one, at the hands of their mother-and at times one longs for a coldly malicious ironist like Brecht or Fassbinder to come in and take over. The attempt to re-create Hitler in realistic terms has always been morally and imaginatively questionable-a compromise with the unspeakable that borders on complicity with it. Produced and written by Bernd Eichinger; directed by Oliver Hirschbiegel. In German. -David Denby
Copyright © 2006 The New Yorker.

Also many customer reviews at the above site.

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Thanks again for your very informative and interesting post :)

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Dani
07-02-2006, 11:55 AM
George, dedicated thread on "Die Untergang": http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1915

George Eller
07-02-2006, 11:57 AM
George, dedicated thread on "Die Untergang": http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1915
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Thanks Dani :)

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Dani
07-02-2006, 12:02 PM
You're welcome.

Lancer44
07-03-2006, 08:24 PM
The secret life of Heinrich Himmler

"Heinrich Luitpold Himmler (October 7, 1900 – May 23, 1945) was the commander of the German Schutzstaffel (SS) and one of the most powerful men in Nazi Germany. As Reichsführer-SS he controlled the SS and the Gestapo. He also became a leading organizer of the Holocaust. As founder and officer-in-charge of the Nazi concentration camps and the Einsatzgruppen death squads, Himmler held final command responsibility for implementing the industrial-scale extermination of between 6 and 12 million people. This was aimed particularly at Jews and Slavs, but also against those of many other nationalities, races and conditions considered by him to be suitable for killing, or Sonderbehandlung ("special treatment") as gas chamber murder was euphemistically known within the SS."
That much by Wikipedia.
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/4375/himmlerhelmet9us.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Images of Himmler in black SS helmet or laughing in presence of Hitler and Goering are in stark contrast with personal life of this very strange nazi.
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/9984/himmgoeringhitlerlaughingin193.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
In 1926, Strasser was promoted to party propaganda chief and moved to Munich and Himmler went with him as his deputy. Around this time, Himmler met a former army nurse by the name of Margarete Boden who owned and operated a clinic specializing in homeopathic medicine. A romance ensued and the two were married in 1928. Margarete sold her clinic and used the money to buy a small farm in Waltrudering near Munich. After years of studying agriculture, Himmler now operated his own farm. He and his wife grew and sold produce, farm implements, and also raised chickens. In 1929, the Himmlers had a daughter Gudrun.
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7373/himmarggudr9po.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Himmler as chicken farmer with wife Margarete, (eight years older than him) and daughter Gudrun.
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/5264/himmlerfamily7dl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Himmler with Margaret, Gudrun and adopted step son.

Heinrich spent so much time with his work in the Nazi party that he began to ignore his farm and his wife. The marriage suffered and the Himmlers began living apart. Heinrich began an affair with his secretary Hedwig Potthast. Attractive daughter of a Cologne businessman and ex-sargeant major, she became secretary to Himmler and later his mistress when he lost all affection for Marga, his wife.
In 1942, Hedwig gave birth to her first child, her second was born in 1944, another daughter. Himmler, not wishing the scandal of a divorce, borrowed 80,000 marks from the Party Chancellery and built a house for Hedwig at Schonau, near Berchtesgaden. They called it 'Haus Schneewinkellehen'. There she became friends with Bormann's wife Greda, who lived nearby.
Fact of Himmlers empty pockets as compared with enormous wealth of Goering tell us a lot about quite idealistic nature of Himmler.
It looks like he was not stealing...
Forced to borrow money from NSDAP Chancellery - read Martin Bormann, Himmler become Bormann's supporter.
(As persistent rumours about Bormann being a soviet spy still exist today, loan from him to Himmler may be one of the secrets behind the whole conduct of war.)

Hedwig Potthast was 12 years younger than him. she was 26 years old in 1938. She was familiarly know as 'Haschen'.

Edited to fix spelling

Lancer44
07-03-2006, 09:05 PM
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/4934/himmhedwigpotthast0ip.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
One of the extremely rare photos of Hedwig Potthast.

Gudrun remained the apple of her father's eye even after the marriage began to deteriorate. Lavished with presents and well known to Germans as "Puppi",
Gudrun Himmler was a model German kid. She even visited Dachau concentration camp with her father...
Gudrun remained his favourite as she demonstrates in an entry in her wartime diary written when at the age of 12 when her father "spoiled" her with a day trip to one of the death camps: "Today we went to the SS concentration camp at Dachau. We saw everything we could. We saw the gardening work. We saw the pear trees. We saw all the pictures painted by the prisoners. Marvellous. And afterwards we had a lot to eat ... it was very nice."

(From THE TIMES: FOREIGN NEWS
SATURDAY, 18 APRIL 1998)

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/7323/himmlgudrun6zm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Gudrun with Dad in public.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8356/himgudr29xu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Gudrun and Dad - probably 1942 - the time when SS killing machine was in full swing...

Lancer44
07-03-2006, 09:28 PM
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1299/himgudrunkarlwolff5ar.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Gudrun, her Dad and SS General Karl Wolff.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/2971/himgudrun19567xr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Gudrun Himmler in 1956

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8163/himgudrmarg3cr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Gudrun - first from right. In the middle Margaret Himmler. Circa 1957.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/6412/himgudrun20030gf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Gudrun Burwitz nee Himmler in Munich 2003
She still remembers her father fondly and refuses to reproach him, "Whatever is said about my Papi, whatever is written or shall be written in the future about him - he was my father, the best father I could have and I loved him and still love him."

Frau Burwitz is feted by the veteran elite just as she was by her own father, and has attended an SS veterans' rally in Austria.
Like the children of Martin Bormann and Hermann Goering, she knows the fame attached to having such men as fathers. Unlike them, she keeps alive the memory of her father - the architect of the Final Solution. She is Himmler's only legitimate child, whom he nicknamed "Puppi" (little doll).

http://www.thirdreichpages.com/himmler5.htm

I could not find anything about post-war life of Himmler's illegitimate son Helge (b.1942) and daughter Nanette Dorothea (b.1944) from a relationship with his personal assistant Hedwig Potthast.

Catharine Himmler, a great-niece of Heinrich Himmler, is married to an Israeli, the son of Holocaust survivors who survived the Warsaw Ghetto.

Lancer44

George Eller
07-04-2006, 11:19 AM
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George Duncan's Women of the Third Reich
http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/women.html

"a collection of short biographical portraits of some forty women who either gave their full support to Hitler and were sympathetic to the Nazi party - or, on the other hand - were strongly anti-Nazi and played an active part in the anti-Hitler resistance movements."

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Lancer44
07-04-2006, 09:35 PM
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2773/martinbormann021xp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Martin Bormann the secret ruler of Germany. Married Gerda Buch, nine years his junior in 1929, (Adolf Hitler and Rudolf Hess were their witnesses), and had 10 kids with her. Below are their names and dates of birth:
Adolf Martin (Martin jr.) 14-04-1930 (commonly known as Kroenzi)
Erengard Franziska 09-07-1931
Ilse (renamed Eicke after 10-05-1941)
Irmgard 25-07-1933
Helmut Gerhard 31-08-1934
Heinrich Hugo (named after Heinrich Himmler) 13-06-1936
Eva Ute 04-08-1940
Gerda 23-10-1941
Fred Hartmut 04-03-1942
Volker 18-09-1943
Bormanns were another III-rd Reich model family. Perhaps even more model than Goebelses or Himmlers, because Gerda Bormann recognising her husband "enormous potential" agreed that their marriage will be open and also agreed that Martin can have numerous affairs consumed in their own house.
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1148/bormanngerda21od.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Gerda Bormann and kids in Obersalzberg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8315/bormannkinder7sb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Visiting Uncle Adolf.
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/866/bormannhaus4nn.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Bormann's house in Obersalzberg was overlooking Hitler's Berghof.

Lancer44
07-05-2006, 12:36 AM
GERDA DARANOVSKY was one of the first tryumphs of Martin Bormann. Bormann, however, knew how to get rid of his lovers when they outlived their usefullness and soon Gerda was more or less happily married to Hitler's private chauffeur Erich Kempka. Kempka quickly realised that Gerda will sleep with anybody and passed her to General Eckard Christian, Chief of Staff to the Luftwaffe whom she divorced in 1946.
As anyone can see "atmosphere at the Berghof was intensely erotic, but only for Hitler’s henchmen – not for their docile, fecund wives. Frau Bormann wrote to her husband with reference to his mistress, the ravishing young actress Magda Behren: “See to it that one year she has a child and next year I have a child, so you will always have a wife who is serviceable.” Given the plentiful supply of unmarried typists, telephonists, servants and cooks, the men from Hitler’s circle had virtual droit du seigneur and made full use of it."
(From Sunday Times, March 12, 2006
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2067664,00.htm
After Gerda Daranovsky/Kempka/Christian, Martin Bormann fished out Frau Silberhorn, the telephonist.
Angela Lambert, Times journalist, get it somewhat wrong saying that Bormann had mistress Magda Behren. It was Manja Behren, well known actress.
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/4001/manjabehrens19zj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1700/manjabehrens8gk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Manja Behrens survived war and died January 18, 2003.
In the mean time she had quite long and fullfilling career as popular actress in... German Democratic Republic - communist East Germany.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0067070/

Joachim C Fest
The Face Of The Third Reich
Practitioners And Technicians Of Totalitarian Rule
http://www.thirdreich.net/Bormann_by_Fest.html

Joachim C Fest disguised name of Manja Behrens under single letter "M".
He mentioned, (look for appendix 33 and near "33" in text :
"This is the explanation for the embarrassingly comic exchange of letters between Bormann and his wife after he had told her in January 1944, with triumphant frankness, that he had at last succeeded in seducing the actress M. Gerda Bormann at once bravely accommodated this information to her philosophy and assured him that she was neither angry nor jealous, but ready to accept M into the common household and, in view of the terrible decline in child production brought about by the war, to work out a system of motherhood by shifts, 'so that you always have a wife who is useable'.

"As emerges from the correspondence, Bormann not only sent his wife's letters back home to be kept, but also the love letters from M: a bureaucrat through and through, who locked even romance into a filing cabinet."

http://www.german-cinema.de/app/filmarchive/film_view.php?film_id=438

Manja Behrens played also in East Berlin Volks Theatre. Here you can see her in season 1954/55 as Anna Karenina.
http://www.volksbuehne-berlin.de/volksbuehne-berlin-cgi/vbbNav.pl?fID=B12&pID=233

From: http://www.thirdreichpages.com/bormann3.htm
"In the spring of 1945, Martin Bormann moved with Hitler into the underground bunker below the Chancellery. He stayed with Hitler and signed his last will and testament. When Hitler married Eva Braun one hour before their deaths, Bormann acted as witness during the ceremony. On April 30th, following Hitler's suicide, Bormann left the bunker and various witnesses claim that he was killed by the explosion of a Russian anti-tank shell while he was trying to escape. Others claim that Bormann committed suicide, and still others claim that he escaped to South America.

In November 1972, East German construction workers excavating near the Lehrter Railway Station unearthed two skeletons. Both carried fragments of glass in their jawbones, indicative of the remains of cyanide vials. One skeleton measured 6feet 6 inches in height and the other measured 5 feet 7 inches. The latter skeleton showed the marks of a broken collarbone. Upon laboratory examination, it was concluded that both individuals died of poisoning. It was alleged that a retired postal worker, Albert Krumnow, had personally buried the bodies of Martin Bormann and Hitler's physician Dr. Ludwig Stumpfegger in that area. Dental records were used to identify the 5 foot 7inch tall skeleton as Martin Bormann. Two of Bormann's sons reported that their father had broken his collarbone in a horse riding accident in 1939. In 1973, DNA tests were conducted using samples from one of Martin Bormann's living relatives and the results were a positive match. The government of West Germany officially declared Martin Bormann dead in 1973.

Despite these findings, many people believe that Bormann escaped and many sightings have been reported over the years in Argentina, Chile, and Bolivia. In 1946, he was sentenced to death in absentia at the Nuremberg trials. The truth of what happened to Martin Bormann remains a mystery."

I don't think any of these rumours about Bormann in South America are believable. So what Sepp Dietrich was doing there? He recovered nazi funds with help of Evita.
I don't want also to be accused of conspiracy theory, but please look at a few proven facts:

1. No one ever seen earthy remains of Martin Bormann until 1972.

2. Discovery of skeletons was by .... East German workers on the other side of the Wall.

3. Around this time rumours were circulating about top secret soviet spy "Werther", which was "close to highest circles of nazi Party".

4. Bormann's latest love, Manja Behrens lived happily in East Berlin...and she is popular among hi brasses of DDR like Otto Grotewohl and Walter Ulbricht.

What do you think about it?

Cheers,

Lancer44

George Eller
07-05-2006, 12:49 AM
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Hi Lancer,

I remember reading about the discovery of Bormann's remains in 1972. Actually read the article about it (which included a photo of his skull) in 1973. They compared the skull with Bormann's dental records and positively identified it as Bormann's remains.

Looks like Bormann had a sex drive on par with former US President Bill Clinton.

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Lancer44
07-05-2006, 01:02 AM
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Hi Lancer,

I remember reading about the discovery of Bormann's remains in 1972. Actually read the article about it (which included a photo of his skull) in 1973. They compared the skull with Bormann's dental records and positively identified it as Bormann's remains.

Looks like Bormann had a sex drive on par with former US President Bill Clinton.

-

Hi George,

I remember it too. No doubt identification done by West German experts was positive. The question which remains is:
- How long Bormann's skeleton was in place where East Germans unearthed it?
Perhaps KGB planted it one night before? Who knows?
And week before Bormann's skeleton was unearthed from some Moscow cemetery and flown to Berlin...
If Bormann was really "Werther", information about it would be very damaging for soviets.

Yes, I was surprised researching things about Bormann, he was not looking like Clinton but had sex drive like all from Kennedy's klan + Clinton for a good measure!!!

Cheers,

Lancer44

George Eller
07-10-2006, 12:26 AM
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1
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/1985/americanwomen012xz.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/8025/americanwomen024yb.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5340/americanwomen039gs.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/760/americanwomen044yy.jpg

B/W images are from: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005 and V-J Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005. Color images are from: America At War In Color,Stewart Binns & Adrian Wood, Carlton Books, 2001.

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George Eller
07-10-2006, 12:27 AM
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2

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/4318/americanwomen058ro.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8153/americanwomen068ja.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/3012/americanwomen075ux.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/2100/americanwomen081uo.jpg

B/W images are from: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005 and V-J Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005. Color images are from: America At War In Color,Stewart Binns & Adrian Wood, Carlton Books, 2001.

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George Eller
07-10-2006, 12:28 AM
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3
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/8321/americanwomen093cn.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4049/americanwomen105rz.jpg
As an aside, the most decorated unit in the U.S. Army during World War II was the Japanese-American 442nd Regiment. Their motto was "Go for Broke." The 100th Battalion/ 442nd Regimental Combat Team was nicknamed the "Purple Heart Battalion."

100th/442nd Regimental Combat Team (with list of decorations and links)
http://www.nikkeiheritage.org/research/442.html

"Go For Broke"442nd Regimental Combat Team
http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/nisei/index3_442nd.html

100th Battalion, 442nd Infantry
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/100-442in.htm

442nd Regimental Combat Team (RCT)
http://www.javadc.org/

History 442nd RCT
http://www.katonk.com/442nd/442nd.htm

442nd Regiment - Resources Internet Sites
http://www.k12.hi.us/~gt/cyberfair2/resources/resource.htm

Photographs of the 100th Infantry Battalion and the 442d Regimental Combat Team
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/topics/apam/AP-photos.htm

Story of nisei bravery, honor retold
An exhibition focuses on the 100th Battalion and 442nd Regiment
http://www.starbulletin.com/97/10/06/news/story3.html

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/5996/americanwomen118zb.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2126/americanwomen127rj.jpg

B/W images are from: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005 and V-J Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005. Color images are from: America At War In Color,Stewart Binns & Adrian Wood, Carlton Books, 2001.

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George Eller
07-10-2006, 12:29 AM
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4
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3464/americanwomen135ms.jpg

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/1269/americanwomen142qt.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/9162/americanwomen152li.jpg

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5162/americanwomen160id.jpg

B/W images are from: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005 and V-J Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005. Color images are from: America At War In Color,Stewart Binns & Adrian Wood, Carlton Books, 2001.
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George Eller
07-10-2006, 12:30 AM
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5
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/7497/americanwomen178az.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/9560/americanwomen184zd.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/8897/americanwomen196iv.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/889/americanwomen200yv.jpg

B/W images are from: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005 and V-J Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005. Color images are from: America At War In Color,Stewart Binns & Adrian Wood, Carlton Books, 2001.

-

George Eller
07-10-2006, 12:31 AM
-
6
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/2747/americanwomen213ep.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3964/americanwomen223kc.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/2738/americanwomen239sc.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4286/americanwomen245wy.jpg

B/W images are from: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005 and V-J Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005. Color images are from: America At War In Color,Stewart Binns & Adrian Wood, Carlton Books, 2001.

-

George Eller
07-10-2006, 12:32 AM
-
7
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2615/americanwomen250jp.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/5796/americanwomen262hj.jpg

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/2507/americanwomen271bq.jpg

B/W images are from: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005 and V-J Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005. Color images are from: America At War In Color,Stewart Binns & Adrian Wood, Carlton Books, 2001.

-

Lancer44
07-18-2006, 02:45 AM
Excellent job George!

I just spotted something which can be interesting:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8655/olgagoeringqy8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This is Olga Goering - Hermann's sister

Now look at their faces...

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4293/hermanndb9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6305/hermann2hq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5222/hermann4vq1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Olga's photo from Axis History Facts.
Hermann's from one nazi site which I don't want to mention for following reasons:
1. I don't want to make them more popular.
2. It's shame to admit to visiting such sites.

Lancer44

WaistGunner
07-18-2006, 01:29 PM
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/9035/lucieoy1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Had a somewhat difficult time finding a photo of this WWII lady. Anyone know who it is?

Hiddenrug
07-22-2006, 05:26 AM
I think it's that lady who had her picture taken between 1939-1946 not sure! Well good forum. Amazing how women helped us men in the war.

WaistGunner
07-22-2006, 03:07 PM
Here is the full photo.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2084/rom1dt9.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rom1dt9.jpg)

Outerheaven
07-22-2006, 06:40 PM
Could it be Rommel's wife?

Hiddenrug
07-23-2006, 06:30 AM
Actually I think it your right. It actually might be The Fox' wife. If not, maybe a relative?

George Eller
07-23-2006, 12:45 PM
-

Paper Dolls - color plates showing womens' uniforms from World War II.
From “The Armed Forces of World War II”, by Andrew Mollo, Crown Publishers Inc., 1981

British Womens' Uniforms
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/69/britishwomenqn9.jpg

American and Canadian Womens' Uniforms
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2206/americancanadianwomenys2.jpg

Soviet Womens' Uniforms
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/738/russianwomenod7.jpg

Sorry, Mollow did not include any color plates for Axis womens' uniforms in his book.

-

Keith.Brigstock
12-01-2006, 12:14 PM
Just thought that I had to add some photos if for no other resion balance as unless I have missed them I cant see any photos of British Women so here is some.

The first is 342 Bty 93rd SL Regt Royal Artillery the only predominantly female regiment in the history of the British Army.

The second is a glamour shot of a searchlight spotter

The last is two Searchlight detachments put together from across the three Btys for a meet the soldier exhibition in London 1943

Loads more where they come from

Francesca1973
01-15-2007, 01:05 PM
Thanks for this thread, gentleman. Very informative. I'm looking for some pictures to post, so stay tuned.

Francesca1973
01-15-2007, 01:59 PM
Rosie the Riveter

Francesca1973
01-15-2007, 02:00 PM
More pictures of women at work during WWII

Francesca1973
01-15-2007, 02:10 PM
Picture of an Italian American woman and her son. She was forced to move from her home during WWII. My Great Grandmother Anna Viale also had this happen to her in Martinez, CA, even though her two sons were fighting in the war.

Catherine Buccellato with her son, Nick. Like many others, Nick later came home on leave to find his house empty. While he had been serving his country, his mother had to evacuate her Pittsburg, CA home.

Francesca1973
01-15-2007, 11:33 PM
Quick OT. I just noticed I was promoted to Corporal. I feel special. The first promotion I've ever gotten in my life and I'm proud of it! :D

ww2admin
01-16-2007, 09:57 AM
Congrats Corporal! you'll be outranking most men in no time;)

Thanks for the pics, they are great.

tom!
01-16-2007, 12:19 PM
Hi.

Japanese civil defence unit at training:

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japsonstiges/heimatverteidigung/jap%20zivile%20luftverteidigungsuebung%202.jpg

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japsonstiges/heimatverteidigung/jap%20zivile%20luftverteidigungsuebung.jpg

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japsonstiges/heimatverteidigung/jap%20zivile%20luftverteidigungsuebung%203.jpg

Yours

tom! ;)

tom!
01-16-2007, 12:25 PM
Hi.

Japanese nurses during a gas attack exercise show.....

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japsonstiges/soldatenleben/jap%20sanitaetspersonal%20manoever.jpg

Yours

tom ;)

redcoat
01-24-2007, 04:28 PM
Photo of the female members of the workforce at Faireys Aircraft Factory, Heaton Norris, Stockport.
My maternal grandmother is on the back row, extreme right. She was employed as a crane driver.

Egorka
01-24-2007, 04:43 PM
This is my grandmother, Maria Koreneva, in app. 1944.

GermanSoldier
01-24-2007, 09:34 PM
They were overwhelming on the home front.

GermanSoldier
01-29-2007, 03:29 PM
I believe there were more on the Russian Battle front then any other army.

Francesca1973
01-30-2007, 04:39 PM
From the book "The 25th Division and WWII" Originally Published in 1946. My copy is printed by The Battery Press, 1995. The caption reads:

Filipino nurses receive the Bronze Star from General Brown during a ceremony at Camp Dalton in Northern Luzon. If anyone can tell me how to make my pictures come out larger on the page, please do.

1PUK
01-30-2007, 05:00 PM
Link to a page with many photos.

http://blog.hapc.com.cn/index.php/action_viewnews_itemid_312

Top one is from the Warsaw Uprising judging by the cap badge.

Marek

Francesca1973
01-30-2007, 11:22 PM
Marek,
Can you post your favorite photos of the site above instead of just a link. When I went to the site it wanted me to install something some Chinese Language pack on my computer. I don't install things from sites I don't trust, but I'd like to see the pictures. Thanks.

1PUK
01-31-2007, 03:16 AM
Marek,
Can you post your favorite photos of the site above instead of just a link. When I went to the site it wanted me to install something some Chinese Language pack on my computer. I don't install things from sites I don't trust, but I'd like to see the pictures. Thanks.

Francesca1973

Do not have to install Chinese to view the pictures.

Did not include the pictures as I am unsure of copyright.

Also would have thought they would take up server space if the actual pictures were added to a post. There were quite a lot of large photos.

Marek

Francesca1973
01-31-2007, 11:48 AM
Okay. I understand.

jacobtowne
02-02-2007, 09:38 AM
1. A.T.S. ladies unpacking Smith & Wesson Military & Police "Victory" model .38-200 Lend-Lease revolvers. (Imperial War Museum)

2. Ladies with Reising submachine guns. They look like U.S. Navy WAVES. (Source unknown)

JT

Francesca1973
02-03-2007, 01:15 AM
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q292/Chessy1973/women4.gifhttp://www.history.noaa.gov/images/women4.gif
Women transmitting weather information over teletype circuits

George Eller
02-04-2007, 05:22 PM
-

A nice little tribute to Anne Frank:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x105fc_anne-frank

The song playing softly in the background is "Hatikvah" (The Hope), Israel's national anthem.

-

Anne Frank Tribute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaGa2CzCYoo

The song playing softly in the background is "Traumerei" by the German composer Robert Schumann.

-

George Eller
07-27-2007, 09:08 AM
-

'Kissing Sailor' Mystery Solved After 62 Years?
Noted police artist backs Texas man's claim that he was the 'kissing sailor' from famed World War II photo.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291047,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/072607_Sailor3.jpg

Police Artist Backs Claim That Texas Man is ‘Kissing Sailor’
Thursday, July 26, 2007

FOX NEWS
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291047,00.html

No one believed Glenn McDuffie when he claimed to be a smooching sailor in a famous photo 62 years ago. Today, the Texas man has enlisted the help of a police sketch artist to vouch for him.

And she has.

"His face, his nose, his eye brow shape, his hairline, his hair texture - it all lines up,” famed forensic artist Lois Gibson told FOX 26 News in Houston.

Gibson’s opinion is a strong one, considering that her work has helped Houston Police solve over 100 crimes. She has also been featured in Oprah's magazine, People magazine, and the Guinness Book of World Records, MyFoxHouston.com reported.

“It's time somebody told the truth about it,” McDuffie said of the classic black and white photo, a symbol of relief at the conclusion of World War II.

McDuffie’s claim would be news to several other ex-sailors who also say they’re the amorous swabbie.

-

Houston Police Artist Confirms Identiy of 'Kissing Sailor'
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=BB44ACA755164028ADBBC4DB8B460395 ?contentId=3881465&version=5&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

Videos:
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=3882425&version=1&locale=EN-US

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=3886882&version=1&locale=EN-US

Photos:
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_gallery.jsp?contentId=3881478&version=1&locale=EN-US

HOUSTON -- Surely you've seen the famous black and white photo of a sailor kissing a nurse in Times Square. Known as "The Kiss," it sums up the jubilation and relief at the end of World War II.

For 62 years, Glenn McDuffie of Texas has claimed to be the sailor in that picture, and for 62 years no body has listened.

"It's time somebody told the truth about it," said McDuffie in an interview with FOX 26 News.

Police forensic artist Lois Gibson says she believes McDuffie.

"It is him," says Gibson.

Gibson is a renowned biometrics expert. Her work has helped Houston Police solve over 100 crimes. She has been featured in Oprah's magazine, People magazine, and the Guinness Book of World Records.

"I'm into the truth. I'm into justice and wow - it's been so long."

She extensively photographed and measured McDuffie and put the data into a computer to make comparisons. McDuffie says it took days and all her skills and expertise.

"His face, his nose, his eye brow shape, his hairline, his hair texture - it all lines up," says Gibson.

The former sailor has passed several polygraph tests and knows the names of the other sailors in the photo.

Gibson says credit needs to be paid where credit is due.

"It was chivalrous, and I think it's time for this country to be chivalrous towards him. It's time for him to quit being anonymous," said Gibson.

McDuffie was recently diagnosed with lung cancer and doctors do not know how much time he has left.

"I love her for it, because I felt like it was about my last chance," said McDuffie.

-

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/2507/americanwomen271bq.jpg
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85659&postcount=69

B/W image from: V-E Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005 and V-J Day, Editors of Time, Time Books, 2005.
-

bwing55543
07-28-2007, 04:49 PM
-

Hi Lancer,

No competition intended - just consider them to also be part of the tapestry of World War II. Later I intend to include the common girls as well.

-

Edith Piaf (December 19, 1915 - October 11, 1963) was one of France's most beloved singers, with much success shortly before and during World War II. Her music reflected her tragic life, with her specialty being the poignant ballad presented with a heartbreaking voice.

She wrote her signature song, La Vie en Rose, in the middle of the German occupation in World War II. During this time, she was in great demand and very successful. Singing for high-ranking Germans at the One Two Two Club earned Édith Piaf the right to pose for photos with French prisoners of war, ostensibly as a morale-boosting exercise. Once in possession of their celebrity photos, prisoners were able to cut out their own images and use them in forged papers as part of escape plans. Today, Édith Piaf's association with the French Resistance is well known and many owe their lives to her. After the war, Édith toured Europe, the United States, and South America, becoming an internationally known figure.

Today she is still remembered and revered as one of the greatest singers France has ever produced. Her life was one of sharp contrasts: the range of her fame as opposed to her tragic personal life, and her fragile small figure on stage with the resounding power of her voice.

Above quoted from: http://great-song-stylists-uk.com/Edith%20Piaf/Edithpiaf.htm

-

Interestingly enough, I mentioned the French prisoner photograph thing in a final project on her for French class.

Also, Rita Hayworth, more than anything else, did appear in effort propaganda. I remember seeing an ad where she was encouraging Americans to donate their car bumpers to the war effort.

bwing55543
07-28-2007, 04:56 PM
Actually I think it your right. It actually might be The Fox' wife. If not, maybe a relative?

Interestingly enough, Rommel's wife's birthday was June 6.

George Eller
07-28-2007, 08:07 PM
Interestingly enough, I mentioned the French prisoner photograph thing in a final project on her for French class.

Also, Rita Hayworth, more than anything else, did appear in effort propaganda. I remember seeing an ad where she was encouraging Americans to donate their car bumpers to the war effort.
-

Hi bwing,

That's cool. :)

There is a new movie about Edith Piaf. The title is La Vie en Rose

Check out the official movie site with trailers:

http://www.edithpiafmovie.com/

Yes, Rita Hayworth and many other starlets helped raise funds for the war effort. The actress Dorothy Lamour is another that comes to mind.

-

1PUK
07-29-2007, 01:48 PM
Girl from Warsaw Uprising.

http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/foto.htm

http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/anowe/dziewczyna-ak.jpg

bwing55543
08-03-2007, 10:46 AM
Major Lyudmila Pavlichenko, the Soviet sharpshooter I mentioned in the Fighter-Ace topic.

http://scribalterror.blogs.com/scribal_terror/images/2007/05/09/sniper.jpg

Digger
08-03-2007, 06:46 PM
I'll direct this to Rising Sun. Wasn't Australian Nancy Wake parachuted into France to work with the resistance? I'm really not up on her, but from memory the SS had a price on her head.

Regards digger

Rising Sun*
08-03-2007, 07:30 PM
I'll direct this to Rising Sun. Wasn't Australian Nancy Wake parachuted into France to work with the resistance? I'm really not up on her, but from memory the SS had a price on her head.

Regards digger

She was parachuted in after previously working with the Resistance, so she was doubly brave.

It's all here

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-heroes/white_mouse.htm

Digger
08-03-2007, 07:49 PM
Thanks mate, I knew you would have the answer at your fingertips;)

While German women did not fight with frontline units, a large number served with the flak divisions protecting German cities. Their duties ranged from simple tasks through to communications, searchlight crews and flak crews. Many of the flak girls were killed or wounded in the course of their duties.

Another area German women were used was the numerous 'Opera Houses' the Luftwaffe fighter command centres.

Regards digger

Rising Sun*
08-03-2007, 08:07 PM
Thanks mate, I knew you would have the answer at your fingertips;)

You're welcome.

I've saw a couple of interviews with her, maybe 20 years ago. She was a strange woman. I suppose you'd have to be to do what she did.


While German women did not fight with frontline units, a large number served with the flak divisions protecting German cities. Their duties ranged from simple tasks through to communications, searchlight crews and flak crews. Many of the flak girls were killed or wounded in the course of their duties.

Another area German women were used was the numerous 'Opera Houses' the Luftwaffe fighter command centres.

Regards digger

I was trying to find info last night on English women in flak crews, but couldn't. I'm pretty sure they had them. I'm not certain that they were serving the guns, but I'm sure they were engaged in range finding, observation etc.

Chevan
08-04-2007, 12:58 PM
Thanks mate, I knew you would have the answer at your fingertips;)

While German women did not fight with frontline units, a large number served with the flak divisions protecting German cities. Their duties ranged from simple tasks through to communications, searchlight crews and flak crews. Many of the flak girls were killed or wounded in the course of their duties.

Another area German women were used was the numerous 'Opera Houses' the Luftwaffe fighter command centres.

Regards digger
Hi mate.
I have to add in the USSR also there were a great number of woman fought int he AA-defence system.Including the operational personal of the AA-gun.
Also they fought with the post-bombing fires.
For instance in Moscow and Lningrad it were special units of voluntaries ( mostly woman) who to put out the German incendiary bombs.

Egorka
08-06-2007, 09:55 AM
BBC: Women's Auxiliary Air Force (http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/categories/c1185/index.shtml)


And also the message from this link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/96/a2089596.shtml


Message 1 - Vee Robinson and the RA
Posted on: 29 November 2003 by John de Mansfield AbsolonResearcher 238443

Girls in AA Command.
If anybody is interested in the tremendous part played by women in AA command I would recommend two books.
They are;

ACK-ACK by General Sir Frederick Pile Britain's defence against air attack during the second world war.

AA Command by Colin Dobinson English Heritage published by Methuen.

These two books should give you the full extent of the use of women in AA command during the second world war
very few people realise the tremendous job they did. Or the medals they won for gallantry.
John Absolon

marloes
10-11-2007, 08:56 PM
[QUOTE=SS Tiger;84734]http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/black_and_white/f4oiev.sized.gif

I think this photo is postwar, 60's or something.
The belts are wrong an so are the hairstyles.

ww2admin
01-13-2008, 04:02 PM
What ever happened to Francesca

mike r.
04-26-2008, 06:27 PM
Hmmmm.......a "light hearted thread" re: WWII.
Well first, no images of "ugly women" sounds really sexist.
I'm not a "Women's Libber", but comments such as the above tend to give the impression that site has Neanderthals as members........and tell me LANCER44, do you have looks in common with any male movie stars??

Re: Suggesting a light hearted theme re: Female Images..........some of the Hilferin were members of the S.S., and their jobs were NOT defense related, many were working in camps or simply assisting in every day military efforts............involving crimes against humanity.

It's fine to add funny captions to images, I truely enjoy them! But, the Second World War had way, way too much negative impact upon too many people of the mid-20th century to realistically suggest a LIGHT HEARTED APPROACH or THEME to any WWII related subject (except perhaps the USO efforts). Its like suggesting a light hearted approach to an article on aircraft accidents.

I personally have, well, should have had 3 uncles that never came back from the war, so naturally I never met them, "Light Hearted" and WWII just doesn't work for me and I'm sure that I'm not alone on this, no matter what the subject, images of ladies,.......or what ever.
I am very interested in seeing images of women participants, the Heferennin Image Forum on the AXIS SITE is where I began my current and recent interest in WWII images. But there ain't anything light hearted about it. Those women the jackets and jump suits emblazoned with the Eagle and Swastika emblem weren't pumping gas nor giving out donuts (for the most part). And those working in Luftschutz activities sometimes got killed...........they deserve to be seen and I wish to see them!.......OK?
In case you were wondering, I am not a militaryphobe, I currently hold a commission in the US Naval Reserve.

Regards,
Mike Rose, M.D.

stidham
04-28-2008, 02:24 PM
This is a great ongoing post. The Nazi were some horny little dudes at the upper echelons weren't they?

Anyway, I don't think that 'light hearted' is not the proper adjective to use for this post. How about 'not macabre' while deaths of male soldiers is horrible, it's expected and accepted, we don't go looking for it, but if we see it's not going to overly upset someone. No body wants to see a dead woman, it's just not right.

Later,
Dave

George Eller
04-28-2008, 02:55 PM
Hmmmm.......a "light hearted thread" re: WWII.
Well first, no images of "ugly women" sounds really sexist.
I'm not a "Women's Libber", but comments such as the above tend to give the impression that site has Neanderthals as members........and tell me LANCER44, do you have looks in common with any male movie stars??

Re: Suggesting a light hearted theme re: Female Images..........some of the Hilferin were members of the S.S., and their jobs were NOT defense related, many were working in camps or simply assisting in every day military efforts............involving crimes against humanity.

It's fine to add funny captions to images, I truely enjoy them! But, the Second World War had way, way too much negative impact upon too many people of the mid-20th century to realistically suggest a LIGHT HEARTED APPROACH or THEME to any WWII related subject (except perhaps the USO efforts). Its like suggesting a light hearted approach to an article on aircraft accidents.

I personally have, well, should have had 3 uncles that never came back from the war, so naturally I never met them, "Light Hearted" and WWII just doesn't work for me and I'm sure that I'm not alone on this, no matter what the subject, images of ladies,.......or what ever.
I am very interested in seeing images of women participants, the Heferennin Image Forum on the AXIS SITE is where I began my current and recent interest in WWII images. But there ain't anything light hearted about it. Those women the jackets and jump suits emblazoned with the Eagle and Swastika emblem weren't pumping gas nor giving out donuts (for the most part). And those working in Luftschutz activities sometimes got killed...........they deserve to be seen and I wish to see them!.......OK?
In case you were wondering, I am not a militaryphobe, I currently hold a commission in the US Naval Reserve.

Regards,
Mike Rose, M.D.
-

Hi Mike,

Welcome to the forum. Lancer44 has not been on this forum for some time - I think he had some health issues.

Anyway, I hope that you took the time to view the posts within this thread more thoroughly. Although it began with a "light hearted" theme, it eventually developed into a more serious thread - much of it including short biographies of female personalities and stories of the contributions of women during the war.

-

mike r.
05-02-2008, 02:06 AM
Hi George,

Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, I did go back and took a good look.
I realized after looking back that the first post of a given thread appears when I opened link rather than most current. Glad that you pointed this out.
There were a plenty of great photos contained in this thread, that is what brought me to site to begin with.

Best regards,
Mike r.

mike r.
05-02-2008, 02:09 AM
Hi Dave,

Your comment was well put and completely valid.

Thanks,
Mike r.

George Eller
05-02-2008, 04:11 PM
Hi George,

Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, I did go back and took a good look.
I realized after looking back that the first post of a given thread appears when I opened link rather than most current. Glad that you pointed this out.

There were a plenty of great photos contained in this thread, that is what brought me to site to begin with.

Best regards,
Mike r.

Not a problem Mike,

You might be interested in this thread also, if you haven't seen it already:

Hot Babes of WWII
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5547

-

And this site:

The Barracks Wall: World War II Pinups
http://www.skylighters.org/photos/pinups.html

-

stidham
05-02-2008, 04:13 PM
Hi Dave,

Your comment was well put and completely valid.

Thanks,
Mike r.

Hi Mike,

Thanks. It's an interesting thread and site.


Later,
Dave

mike r.
05-05-2008, 03:39 AM
George,

Those were 2 good threads, thanks for the heads-up!!
Always appreciate getting new sources to support my "habit":)

Thanks!,
Mike Rose

1PUK
05-05-2008, 04:18 AM
A few stories of women at war : -

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWwomen.htm

mike r.
05-06-2008, 11:35 PM
1PUK,

Thanks for the "spartacus schoolnet" link!
This site provides historical information and discussion topics that I have never encountered before. Generally speaking, the folks in the UK provide a great deal historical publications with a unique perspective. One of my first experiences with a British historical publication was when I discovered some back issues of "AFTER THE BATTLE" in a small antique shop located at the edge of town in Tucson, Arizona about 12 years ago, man I couldn't put the 8or so issues down. I wish there was a site that served as a source of similar articles in that unique format..........especially with that attention to detail that the British authors can be counted on to provide.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff??!!
Thanks again, 1PUK, for the link.

I used to say that I only sleep 4-5 hours/night because I stay up reading.
Now I sleep about 3 hours/night.

Cheers,
Mike Rose, M.D.

BearMgk
05-20-2008, 10:08 AM
Soviet female snipers
believe it or not they had big killing scores

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2416/1547085449_e6c79e8357.jpg?v=0


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2390/1547085081_b75c5c348d.jpg?v=0


http://www.thedarkpaladin.com/WW2%20Snipers_files/sniper1.jpg

Francesca1973
08-16-2008, 02:28 PM
What ever happened to Francesca

Hi,

I'm back! Sorry I was gone so long. I missed you guys! Am I still the only "girl" on here?

George Eller
08-16-2008, 02:43 PM
Hi,

I'm back! Sorry I was gone so long. I missed you guys! Am I still the only "girl" on here?

Hi Francesca,

Welcome back. We have a few other ladies here. One of our most recent is Gracie.

Great to have you back :)

-

Francesca1973
08-16-2008, 02:58 PM
Thanks for the welcome back! I don't have much to contribute today, but I wanted to check in. OT, but didn't there used to be a separate category for the different theaters of the war, such as European and Pacific? What happened. I have been gone so long I've missed out on the re-organization.

George Eller
08-16-2008, 03:06 PM
Thanks for the welcome back! I don't have much to contribute today, but I wanted to check in. OT, but didn't there used to be a separate category for the different theaters of the war, such as European and Pacific? What happened. I have been gone so long I've missed out on the re-organization.
-

The American Military - European Theater and Pacific Theater forums were merged because of low activity in the American Military - Pacific Theater threads. It's all there though. Some may have been archived.

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Francesca1973
08-16-2008, 10:21 PM
Thanks George. As you know, most of my research is concentrated on the S.P., so I was looking for that section. Sorry, OT from the thread, but I've been reading about the Bataan Death March and Cabanatuan P.O.W. camp lately because I am returning yet another 6th Ranger Battalion dog tag. (I'm up to 2 from the 6th Rangers so far) What are the odds of two dog tags being found from men who were on the Great Raid? There were only about 121 men from the 6th Rangers on the raid and Henry Mayer found 2 of their dog tags in Port Moresby, PNG. The book I read states that the Great Raid on Cabantuan POW camp still holds the "record" for the most successful U.S. rescue mission. It is a pretty amazing story. Must give huge credit to the Filipino Guerillas and Alamo Scouts, though, since the raid would have failed w/out their expertise!

George Eller
08-16-2008, 11:18 PM
Thanks George. As you know, most of my research is concentrated on the S.P., so I was looking for that section. Sorry, OT from the thread, but I've been reading about the Bataan Death March and Cabanatuan P.O.W. camp lately because I am returning yet another 6th Ranger Battalion dog tag. (I'm up to 2 from the 6th Rangers so far) What are the odds of two dog tags being found from men who were on the Great Raid? There were only about 121 men from the 6th Rangers on the raid and Henry Mayer found 2 of their dog tags in Port Moresby, PNG. The book I read states that the Great Raid on Cabantuan POW camp still holds the "record" for the most successful U.S. rescue mission. It is a pretty amazing story. Must give huge credit to the Filipino Guerillas and Alamo Scouts, though, since the raid would have failed w/out their expertise!
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You're welcome. I just noticed your additional posts yesterday on the Great Raid. You've done some great work.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?p=131876#post131876

You're right though, the support of the Filipino guerillas contributed greatly to the mission's success.

Congratulations on the continued success of your dog tag project. Are the Rangers that are having their dog tags returned still living or are the tags being returned to next of kin?

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Francesca1973
08-17-2008, 11:57 AM
-

Congratulations on the continued success of your dog tag project. Are the Rangers that are having their dog tags returned still living or are the tags being returned to next of kin?

-

Thanks, George. I'm up to 38 returned now! Unfortunately, neither 6th Ranger veteran is still alive. :( Another lady who volunteers for our project was doing the actual research on the second 6th Ranger veteran and she sent me the copy of his obituary. When I read that he was an Army Ranger, I knew it had to be the 6th Rangers, since his tag was found near the Port Moresby Airfield in PNG. I knew that the only Ranger Battalion in the S.P. was the 6th and I immediately contacted the man who runs the 6th Ranger's Association, since I knew he could check his rosters and tell me which Company "our" dog tag veteran had served in. Sure enough, Company C! I haven't spoken to the family yet, because the tag is still in New Guinea. I don't know how long it will take to get it back here and I don't want to get their hopes up and make them wait, if the person who has the tag doesn't send it back in a timely fashion. He's reliable, but does a lot of travelling, so he's often out of communication. I can't wait to speak with the family, though. We will be raising funds to return this tag in person and interview the family. If anyone reading this wants to donate (we are now an actual OFFICIAL (yah!) non-profit, so all donations are completely tax deductible), PM me and I'll give you the link to the donation site.

George Eller
08-17-2008, 05:35 PM
Thanks, George. I'm up to 38 returned now! Unfortunately, neither 6th Ranger veteran is still alive. :( Another lady who volunteers for our project was doing the actual research on the second 6th Ranger veteran and she sent me the copy of his obituary. When I read that he was an Army Ranger, I knew it had to be the 6th Rangers, since his tag was found near the Port Moresby Airfield in PNG. I knew that the only Ranger Battalion in the S.P. was the 6th and I immediately contacted the man who runs the 6th Ranger's Association, since I knew he could check his rosters and tell me which Company "our" dog tag veteran had served in. Sure enough, Company C! I haven't spoken to the family yet, because the tag is still in New Guinea. I don't know how long it will take to get it back here and I don't want to get their hopes up and make them wait, if the person who has the tag doesn't send it back in a timely fashion. He's reliable, but does a lot of travelling, so he's often out of communication. I can't wait to speak with the family, though. We will be raising funds to return this tag in person and interview the family. If anyone reading this wants to donate (we are now an actual OFFICIAL (yah!) non-profit, so all donations are completely tax deductible), PM me and I'll give you the link to the donation site.
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Congratulations on the 38 Francesca :)

Well, I think that will be more common in the future since the WWII generation is in such an advanced state of age. It must be very interesting though, learning about the lives of the men behind the dog tags and the units in which they served. And very satisfying as well.

I still have the web address of your non-profit organization and will go through there to help out. I wish you continued success on this latest pair of tags and into the future. :)

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namvet
08-17-2008, 10:06 PM
although I don't have a photo of mom handy. (and she was a beaut) she worked at the assembly plant in fairfax Kansas during the war prducing the B-25 Mitchell bomber. here's the site:

fairfax (fairfax)

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9346/bomberww2xn3.jpg

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7066/1a35291u0qj2.jpg


http://z.about.com/d/womenshistory/1/0/c/5/rosie1.jpg

Francesca1973
08-18-2008, 10:19 AM
although I don't have a photo of mom handy. (and she was a beaut) she worked at the assembly plant in fairfax Kansas during the war prducing the B-25 Mitchell bomber. here's the site: http://skyways.lib.ks.us/genweb/wyandott/naak.htm

I'd love to see a picture of your mom! Did she tell you a lot of stories about the home front during WWII and what it was like to work on the planes?

namvet
08-18-2008, 10:39 AM
although I don't have a photo of mom handy. (and she was a beaut) she worked at the assembly plant in fairfax Kansas during the war prducing the B-25 Mitchell bomber.

I'd love to see a picture of your mom! Did she tell you a lot of stories about the home front during WWII and what it was like to work on the planes?

ill see if I can find it. its in an old box around here somewhere. I also have a family photo that was taken during the war. I wasn't born till after the war. my sister, who's 4 years older than me was born on June 6, 1942. that was during the battle for midway.
she never talked a lot about her job there. until 1 year we took her to an air show here locally. they had the B-25 on display. we took over there and her jaw dropped. you could just see the memories coming back. also there was 2 former B-25 pilots there. she climbed inside and started showing us what she installed. we could NOT get her to shut up. :D
those 2 pilots showed their gratitude to her for helping out. my mistake was I didn't have a camera !!!!!!

Francesca1973
08-18-2008, 10:55 AM
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Congratulations on the 38 Francesca :)

Well, I think that will be more common in the future since the WWII generation is in such an advanced state of age. It must be very interesting though, learning about the lives of the men behind the dog tags and the units in which they served. And very satisfying as well.

I still have the web address of your non-profit organization and will go through there to help out. I wish you continued success on this latest pair of tags and into the future. :)

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Thank you, George. We appreciate the help. I found 3 living veterans last week, so it would be wonderful to get some funds together to return the tags in person, meet the veteran, take pictures, etc. We are just beginning our fund raising efforts in earnest and getting things in the non-profit organized since it's such a new venture. Sorry to be so off topic! I promise to get back on topic with the next post.

herman2
08-18-2008, 12:55 PM
Makes one sorta want to get captured by the enemy!!
2401

George Eller
08-18-2008, 10:22 PM
although I don't have a photo of mom handy. (and she was a beaut) she worked at the assembly plant in fairfax Kansas during the war prducing the B-25 Mitchell bomber. here's the site: http://skyways.lib.ks.us/genweb/wyandott/naak.htm

I'd love to see a picture of your mom! Did she tell you a lot of stories about the home front during WWII and what it was like to work on the planes?

ill see if I can find it. its in an old box around here somewhere. I also have a family photo that was taken during the war. I wasn't born till after the war. my sister, who's 4 years older than me was born on June 6, 1942. that was during the battle for midway.
she never talked a lot about her job there. until 1 year we took her to an air show here locally. they had the B-25 on display. we took over there and her jaw dropped. you could just see the memories coming back. also there was 2 former B-25 pilots there. she climbed inside and started showing us what she installed. we could NOT get her to shut up. :D
those 2 pilots showed their gratitude to her for helping out. my mistake was I didn't have a camera !!!!!!
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I look forward to that too, Gary. :)

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Thank you, George. We appreciate the help. I found 3 living veterans last week, so it would be wonderful to get some funds together to return the tags in person, meet the veteran, take pictures, etc. We are just beginning our fund raising efforts in earnest and getting things in the non-profit organized since it's such a new venture. Sorry to be so off topic! I promise to get back on topic with the next post.
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I would like to see that. Besides the photos, I think some interviews of the veterans would be very touching also. They will probably have some interesting experiences and insights to share. :)

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namvet
08-18-2008, 10:25 PM
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I look forward to that too, Gary. :)

-


-

I would like to see that. Besides the photos, I think some interviews of the veterans would be very touching also. They will probably have some interesting experiences and insights to share. :)

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ok George. ill see if I can 'dig' her up tomorrow................

jpamadridm
08-19-2008, 12:18 AM
MARGOT DUHALDE

Chilean pilot, who participated in the World War II in the service of the French Air Force and the Real british Air Force.
After the war, remain in England, but working for the French Air Force squadron on a Spit Fire. After it was destined to Africa, in Morocco; made a course of gliders in France and was seconded to South America as a French officer.

http://www.goldenseniors.com/images/stories/CAROLINA%20RAMIREZ/__margot_4.jpg

http://www.france.cl/local/cache-vignettes/L400xH267/decoracionduhalde_11-6e0fc.jpg

L’Ambassadeur remet les insignes de Commandeur de la Légion d’Honneur à Mme Duhalde

http://www.dragoncultural.cl/portal/imagenes/2008/febrero/margot_duhalde.jpg




Is the first woman pilot combat of my country

VIVA CHILE MIERDA

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/south-america/chile/images/flag-of-chile.jpg

Thanks for reading

Greetings

namvet
08-19-2008, 03:12 PM
haven't found the photo of my mom. she's gonna look and see if she has one. if so ill post it. I did find 1 of my late dad. wow. he was just a kid !!!!


http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/5297/dadyo7.jpg

B-25 on display. this is really old and not in to good a shape
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2748/b25pe3.jpg




I also found these aircraft photo's. I took these inside the hanger bay of the USS Yorktown at patriots point. near Charleston SC

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/1369/bomber1ka8.jpg

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/5042/bomber2so3.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3944/fighterfu0.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1076/fighter2ob5.jpg
>
>

I snapped this from the bridge of the USS Alabama in Mobile on our way to Florida
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1606/thebamagunsud5.jpg

does she look like she's sitting on dry land???? I took this from a restaurant near the museum. except for the bow she looks identical to the Iowa class
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9232/ussalabamanj2.jpg
>
>
the bama web site link (link)


http://www.ussalabama.com/images/photo_1.jpg
>
>
my god I even found an old photo of my graduation class photo from teletype maintenance school in Sdiego. 1968. we look like murderer's row !!!!!

George Eller
08-19-2008, 09:33 PM
haven't found the photo of my mom. she's gonna look and see if she has one. if so ill post it. I did find 1 of my late dad. wow. he was just a kid !!!!


http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/5297/dadyo7.jpg

B-25 on display. this is really old and not in to good a shape
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2748/b25pe3.jpg


I also found these aircraft photo's. I took these inside the hanger bay of the USS Yorktown at patriots point. near Charleston SC

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/1369/bomber1ka8.jpg

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/5042/bomber2so3.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3944/fighterfu0.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1076/fighter2ob5.jpg


I snapped this from the bridge of the USS Alabama in Mobile on our way to Florida
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1606/thebamagunsud5.jpg

does she look like she's sitting on dry land???? I took this from a restaurant near the museum. except for the bow she looks identical to the Iowa class
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9232/ussalabamanj2.jpg


the bama web site link (link)


http://www.ussalabama.com/images/photo_1.jpg


my god I even found an old photo of my graduation class photo from teletype maintenance school in Sdiego. 1968. we look like murderer's row !!!!!
-

These are beautiful pics Gary.

Was the pic of your dad taken before the war or in the early part maybe? In the early 1980's I worked with a veteran who was a US Navy submariner during WWII. Sometimes when he'd talk to us about the war, he would mention that "there ain't nothin cockier than a sailor in his dress blues on a Saturday night". :)

Is that B-25 from one of the old Confederate Air Force airshows?

I will have to visit Charleston and the USS Yorktown one of these days. I've been by it on several occasions, but have never stopped in. Looks like an Avenger, Hellcat, Dauntless, and Skyraider?

I have been to the Nimitz Museum of the Pacific War in Fredricksburg, Texas.

Those are great shots of the battleship Alabama. I've been by it before when passing through Mobile, Alabama on I-10. It does look similar to the Iowa class. I think that the South Dakota class (South Dakota, Indiana, Massachusetts, and Alabama) were shorter - 680 ft overall vs 887 ft overall - than the Iowa class (Iowa, New Jersey, Missouri, and Wisconsin). Also, the Iowa class had two stacks while the South Dakota class had a single stack. I've read that the shorter length of the South Dakota class battleships made them extremely maneuverable.

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namvet
08-19-2008, 10:41 PM
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These are beautiful pics Gary.

Was the pic of your dad taken before the war or in the early part maybe? In the early 1980's I worked with a veteran who was a US Navy submariner during WWII. Sometimes when he'd talk to us about the war, he would mention that "there ain't nothin cockier than a sailor in his dress blues on a Saturday night". :)

Is that B-25 from one of the old Confederate Air Force airshows?

I will have to visit Charleston and the USS Yorktown one of these days. I've been by it on several occasions, but have never stopped in. Looks like an Avenger, Hellcat, Dauntless, and Skyraider?

I have been to the Nimitz Museum of the Pacific War in Fredricksburg, Texas.

Those are great shots of the battleship Alabama. I've been by it before when passing through Mobile, Alabama on I-10. It does look similar to the Iowa class. I think that the South Dakota class (South Dakota, Indiana, Massachusetts, and Alabama) were shorter - 680 ft overall vs 887 ft overall - than the Iowa class (Iowa, New Jersey, Missouri, and Wisconsin). Also, the Iowa class had two stacks while the South Dakota class had a single stack. I've read that the shorter length of the South Dakota class battleships made them extremely maneuverable.

-

his photo was taken after Pearl Harbor. he went to boot at the great lakes recruit training. I think my mom or sister has his graduation photo. I have mine around here somewhere. I started going thru these photo's this morning and could not stop. I was going to put more on here. but seems like I put on enough already.

there's nothin' cockier than a sailor on any night. haha. but the sailors in my war didn't seem have it. just the pride. the story about a girl in every port is true !!!!

yes the B-25 was with the old Confederate Air Force. that photo was taken sometime back in the 80's at a local AFB. I remember it was july or August and hotter than hell.

the Bama was the only BB I ever went aboard. it was or felt super sized. we had the New Jersery in Nam and alongside a lot. but I never got to board her. every sailor (including me) put in a tranfer to the NJ. if you can ride history why not????

namvet
08-20-2008, 12:59 PM
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These are beautiful pics Gary.

Was the pic of your dad taken before the war or in the early part maybe? In the early 1980's I worked with a veteran who was a US Navy submariner during WWII. Sometimes when he'd talk to us about the war, he would mention that "there ain't nothin cockier than a sailor in his dress blues on a Saturday night". :)

Is that B-25 from one of the old Confederate Air Force airshows?

I will have to visit Charleston and the USS Yorktown one of these days. I've been by it on several occasions, but have never stopped in. Looks like an Avenger, Hellcat, Dauntless, and Skyraider?

I have been to the Nimitz Museum of the Pacific War in Fredricksburg, Texas.

Those are great shots of the battleship Alabama. I've been by it before when passing through Mobile, Alabama on I-10. It does look similar to the Iowa class. I think that the South Dakota class (South Dakota, Indiana, Massachusetts, and Alabama) were shorter - 680 ft overall vs 887 ft overall - than the Iowa class (Iowa, New Jersey, Missouri, and Wisconsin). Also, the Iowa class had two stacks while the South Dakota class had a single stack. I've read that the shorter length of the South Dakota class battleships made them extremely maneuverable.

-

in nam the 7th fleet operated almost exclusively out of subic bay in the PI. here's the NJ in subic:


http://www.subicbaypi.com/sub_ships019.jpg

George Eller
08-20-2008, 01:13 PM
in nam the 7th fleet operated almost exclusively out of subic bay in the PI. here's the NJ in subic:


http://www.subicbaypi.com/sub_ships019.jpg
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Oh that's a beautiful shot ... :)

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namvet
08-20-2008, 01:17 PM
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Oh that's a beautiful shot ... :)

-

ill post subic bay on the vietnam forum. there's a crap load of photo's. I just put this on my desktop wallpaper. I also have the MO on it to..............

Francesca1973
08-20-2008, 09:26 PM
Gary,

Thanks for the story of your mom, the pic of your dad, and the other pics. Are you going to interview your mom about her time during WWII? My Grandma had some great stories about her travels with my Grandpa around the world and I kick myself now that I didn't get it on tape. She's been gone over ten years and I still miss her! Grandpa wasn't in the armed forces during WWII, but worked for a huge construction company, Raymond International, that built a lot of infrastructure, bridges, etc. I need to talk to my uncle to find out more, because he remembers all the stories.

namvet
08-20-2008, 09:52 PM
Gary,

Thanks for the story of your mom, the pic of your dad, and the other pics. Are you going to interview your mom about her time during WWII? My Grandma had some great stories about her travels with my Grandpa around the world and I kick myself now that I didn't get it on tape. She's been gone over ten years and I still miss her! Grandpa wasn't in the armed forces during WWII, but worked for a huge construction company, Raymond International, that built a lot of infrastructure, bridges, etc. I need to talk to my uncle to find out more, because he remembers all the stories.

no I never got her full story on it. but i probably will. i called her and my sister the other day to see if either has any photo's of my mom during this era. my mom is really all that's left. all the others have passed on.
>
I did foget my late grandfather. he's was a sportsman and liked to hunt. he was to old for service but he loaded bullets at a local ammo depot here. it was called the lake city arsenal. the ammo went worldwide. it was still open in nam. making bullets for that war. and its still running to this day:
lake city Missouri (lake city Missouri)


http://ifs1.imagefly.info/o/b3/Gun%20Factory%2005.jpg

incredible !!!!!!!!!!!!

the plant
http://grannygeek.us/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/lake-city-1.jpg

bullets (bullets)


Lake City is within the city limits of Independence, Missouri and it’s the largest small-caliber munitions plant in the world.

I lived in Independence, mo for years. graduated from HS there. lived there when I took off for nam. and home of former president Harry S Truman.

namvet
08-20-2008, 11:01 PM
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7018/familymi5.jpg

my mom is seated lower right. behind her, in uniform my dad. who looks like a squirrel. center back is my late grandfather. back left is my late uncle. who looks about age 14. lower left is his wife and in the center is my late grandmother holding my sister. taken sometime after peal harbor. my uncle had not joined up yet. my sister has 1 of just my mom but she won't let it go. im working on her.

George Eller
08-21-2008, 12:19 AM
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7018/familymi5.jpg

my mom is seated lower right. behind her, in uniform my dad. who looks like a squirrel. center back is my late grandfather. back left is my late uncle. who looks about age 14. lower left is his wife and in the center is my late grandmother holding my sister. taken sometime after peal harbor. my uncle had not joined up yet. my sister has 1 of just my mom but she won't let it go. im working on her.
-

This is a very nice family portrait Gary. Thanks for posting it. Was this taken in Kansas or Missouri?

-

namvet
08-21-2008, 09:49 AM
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This is a very nice family portrait Gary. Thanks for posting it. Was this taken in Kansas or Missouri?

-

in the Kansas City, MO area. It was the only photo of my mom i had. I had a long talk with her last night. told her about this photo. she got chocked up. she claims this was taken after my dad came back from boot.

Jazzman
09-02-2008, 04:25 AM
Some ladies of the SS arriving at their vacation retreat in Poland, summer 1944.

namvet
09-02-2008, 12:40 PM
BUBBA ask:
How about some info on famous black ladies in the war. Find some stuff about this and type it here s\o \i reads it ok?.

the board refuses to allow me to reply to his post. why???? got me. anyway go to this sight. I don't know of any "famous black ladies"

link (link)



http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5935/africanamericanswwii145qj6.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/5053/africanamericanswwii149zx1.jpg

Cezar
09-02-2008, 05:30 PM
During Warsaw Uprising womans was helping wounded, carrying reports under enemy fire and through sewers, cooking meals and they were fighting side by side with men's. Sorry for quality, but thats mostly scans from albums and books, which i get from friend. I will get more soon ;)

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6944/101jl5.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=101jl5.jpg)

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1397/1234vy9.th.jpg (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1234vy9.jpg)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1097/44027841pr6.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=44027841pr6.jpg)

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/3942/405eg9.th.jpg (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=405eg9.jpg)

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/79/516sv9.th.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=516sv9.jpg)

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4465/521ix1.th.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=521ix1.jpg)

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/5322/529vm2.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=529vm2.jpg)

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9175/kamaob0.th.jpg (http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kamaob0.jpg)

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3112/78lh3.th.jpg (http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?image=78lh3.jpg)

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6216/p49990311if9.th.jpg (http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p49990311if9.jpg)

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4320/p49990313zfa2.th.jpg (http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p49990313zfa2.jpg)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/7264/b191tn6.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b191tn6.jpg)

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/3921/272km0.th.jpg (http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=272km0.jpg)

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1980/1235ao4.th.jpg (http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1235ao4.jpg)

flamethrowerguy
09-03-2008, 01:01 PM
Eastern german refugee with child, the husband possibly KIA, the homeplace gone for good and the future unsettled

ptimms
09-04-2008, 03:11 AM
My mates Mum was in the WRAF. She was in fighter command control centres pushing the planes around on the contact board. She also lost her barrage balloon. It drifted round Newcastle all night with the cable demolishing chimney pots !! She was fined a couple of days wages for her negligence.

flamethrowerguy
09-04-2008, 05:18 AM
That's an interesting and funny story, Paul. The good people of Newcastle must have thought it was a german wonderweapon, something like these japanese balloon bombs.

ptimms
09-04-2008, 05:24 AM
I'm very fortunate to be of an age that I have known many people who experienced the war. I am also fortunate to be of an age that I didn't.

Jazzman
09-04-2008, 02:35 PM
Very well said Ptimms! Great story.

Major Walter Schmidt
09-06-2008, 01:16 AM
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd221/ISDP/Iron%20Annie/fallchirmager_sketch.jpg
one more reason to join the SS fallschirmjager korps......

flamethrowerguy
09-06-2008, 07:55 AM
Flight Captain Hanna Reitsch (*March 29, 1912; +August 24, 1979), one of the best-known and most successful german female (civil) pilots. She established more than 40 records in all categories and on all types of planes from 1932-1978.

namvet
09-06-2008, 03:31 PM
Ya, \i like stuff like this you write, so write more and I read ok.Only write bout famous black heroes ok, maybe someone lile McArthur ok.


Only write bout famous black heroes ok, maybe someone lile McArthur ok.

ill be damned. McArthur was black. :roll:

ww11freak34
09-09-2008, 11:13 PM
the russians had ladies in there army

aly j
09-20-2008, 06:57 AM
the russians had ladies in there army

yes true...i think they the russians had the first female soilders

pdf27
09-20-2008, 07:37 AM
You've not heard of Jeanne D'Arc, Boadicea or the Amazons then?

aly j
09-20-2008, 07:53 AM
You've not heard of Jeanne D'Arc, Boadicea or the Amazons then?

im a ww2 buff
i know little about other wars
i didt think women fight be4 ww2
but since u know all about all wars
u r probely right

Adrian Wainer
09-20-2008, 05:14 PM
http://bp3.blogger.com/_74PG372zvYM/RvzfPZac_tI/AAAAAAAAAAU/RoSECZFMdW8/s1600/0054_guerra_civil_esp_mujeres_02.jpg

Spanish Civil War poster


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b373/eduhyde/12.jpg

Soviet Poster

http://z.about.com/d/womenshistory/1/0/F/8/victory_waits.jpg

US Poster

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

Adrian Wainer
09-20-2008, 06:17 PM
yes true...i think they the russians had the first female soilders

Not the first but before Soviets and much more pretty IMHO!

http://www.espacioblog.com/myfiles/lauracano/soldadera461x678.gif

Una Soldadera de la revolution Mexicana

Viva Zapata
Adrian Wainer

aly j
09-22-2008, 04:51 AM
Not the first but before Soviets and much more pretty IMHO!

http://www.espacioblog.com/myfiles/lauracano/soldadera461x678.gif

Una Soldadera de la revolution Mexicana

Viva Zapata
Adrian WainerAnd what year was that?

Adrian Wainer
09-22-2008, 07:20 AM
circa 1910 to 1919/20 probably

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

aly j
09-22-2008, 10:22 AM
circa 1910 to 1919/20 probably

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

She could be just a message girl?

pdf27
09-22-2008, 01:36 PM
She could be just a message girl?
She's carrying an awfully big sword for a messenger!

aly j
09-27-2008, 03:47 AM
She's carrying an awfully big sword for a messenger!

She could just have it too protect herself if she got caught......just my opinion.
It is likley that she is a soilder,i was thinking out loud.
Anyways why cant you rude too me like Rising Sun is.:shock:

D502
09-27-2008, 07:37 AM
She's carrying an awfully big sword for a messenger!

:mrgreen: To protect her bandoleer?

D502
09-29-2008, 06:37 AM
Flight Captain Hanna Reitsch (*March 29, 1912; +August 24, 1979), one of the best-known and most successful german female (civil) pilots. She established more than 40 records in all categories and on all types of planes from 1932-1978.

Hanna Reitsch reminds me to

Melitta Schenk Gräfin von Stauffenberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melitta_Schenk_Gr%C3%A4fin_von_Stauffenberg)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/d502/ge/schiller.jpg


and

Beate Uhse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_K%C3%B6stlin)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/d502/ge/koestlin.jpg

flamethrowerguy
09-29-2008, 06:45 AM
Hanna Reitsch reminds me to

Melitta Schenk Gräfin von Stauffenberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melitta_Schenk_Gr%C3%A4fin_von_Stauffenberg)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/d502/ge/schiller.jpg


and

Beate Uhse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_K%C3%B6stlin)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/d502/ge/koestlin.jpg

Beate Uhse, lol. What a change in profession....

D502
09-29-2008, 06:50 AM
Beate Uhse, lol. What a change in profession....

Assiduous and inventive woman ;)

„Artikel für die Ehehygiene“ :mrgreen:

aly j
09-29-2008, 06:51 AM
:mrgreen: To protect her bandoleer?

she could be wearing it for fashion;)
Hey D502 are uyou a Dudette like i am

Walther
10-01-2008, 07:22 PM
GERDA DARANOVSKY was one of the first tryumphs of Martin Bormann. Bormann, however, knew how to get rid of his lovers when they outlived their usefullness and soon Gerda was more or less happily married to Hitler's private chauffeur Erich Kempka. Kempka quickly realised that Gerda will sleep with anybody and passed her to General Eckard Christian, Chief of Staff to the Luftwaffe whom she divorced in 1946.
As anyone can see "atmosphere at the Berghof was intensely erotic, but only for Hitler’s henchmen – not for their docile, fecund wives. Frau Bormann wrote to her husband with reference to his mistress, the ravishing young actress Magda Behren: “See to it that one year she has a child and next year I have a child, so you will always have a wife who is serviceable.” Given the plentiful supply of unmarried typists, telephonists, servants and cooks, the men from Hitler’s circle had virtual droit du seigneur and made full use of it."
(From Sunday Times, March 12, 2006
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2067664,00.htm
After Gerda Daranovsky/Kempka/Christian, Martin Bormann fished out Frau Silberhorn, the telephonist.
Angela Lambert, Times journalist, get it somewhat wrong saying that Bormann had mistress Magda Behren. It was Manja Behren, well known actress.
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/4001/manjabehrens19zj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1700/manjabehrens8gk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Manja Behrens survived war and died January 18, 2003.
In the mean time she had quite long and fullfilling career as popular actress in... German Democratic Republic - communist East Germany.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0067070/

Joachim C Fest
The Face Of The Third Reich
Practitioners And Technicians Of Totalitarian Rule
http://www.thirdreich.net/Bormann_by_Fest.html

Joachim C Fest disguised name of Manja Behrens under single letter "M".
He mentioned, (look for appendix 33 and near "33" in text :
"This is the explanation for the embarrassingly comic exchange of letters between Bormann and his wife after he had told her in January 1944, with triumphant frankness, that he had at last succeeded in seducing the actress M. Gerda Bormann at once bravely accommodated this information to her philosophy and assured him that she was neither angry nor jealous, but ready to accept M into the common household and, in view of the terrible decline in child production brought about by the war, to work out a system of motherhood by shifts, 'so that you always have a wife who is useable'.

"As emerges from the correspondence, Bormann not only sent his wife's letters back home to be kept, but also the love letters from M: a bureaucrat through and through, who locked even romance into a filing cabinet."

http://www.german-cinema.de/app/filmarchive/film_view.php?film_id=438

Manja Behrens played also in East Berlin Volks Theatre. Here you can see her in season 1954/55 as Anna Karenina.
http://www.volksbuehne-berlin.de/volksbuehne-berlin-cgi/vbbNav.pl?fID=B12&pID=233

From: http://www.thirdreichpages.com/bormann3.htm
"In the spring of 1945, Martin Bormann moved with Hitler into the underground bunker below the Chancellery. He stayed with Hitler and signed his last will and testament. When Hitler married Eva Braun one hour before their deaths, Bormann acted as witness during the ceremony. On April 30th, following Hitler's suicide, Bormann left the bunker and various witnesses claim that he was killed by the explosion of a Russian anti-tank shell while he was trying to escape. Others claim that Bormann committed suicide, and still others claim that he escaped to South America.

In November 1972, East German construction workers excavating near the Lehrter Railway Station unearthed two skeletons. Both carried fragments of glass in their jawbones, indicative of the remains of cyanide vials. One skeleton measured 6feet 6 inches in height and the other measured 5 feet 7 inches. The latter skeleton showed the marks of a broken collarbone. Upon laboratory examination, it was concluded that both individuals died of poisoning. It was alleged that a retired postal worker, Albert Krumnow, had personally buried the bodies of Martin Bormann and Hitler's physician Dr. Ludwig Stumpfegger in that area. Dental records were used to identify the 5 foot 7inch tall skeleton as Martin Bormann. Two of Bormann's sons reported that their father had broken his collarbone in a horse riding accident in 1939. In 1973, DNA tests were conducted using samples from one of Martin Bormann's living relatives and the results were a positive match. The government of West Germany officially declared Martin Bormann dead in 1973.

Despite these findings, many people believe that Bormann escaped and many sightings have been reported over the years in Argentina, Chile, and Bolivia. In 1946, he was sentenced to death in absentia at the Nuremberg trials. The truth of what happened to Martin Bormann remains a mystery."

I don't think any of these rumours about Bormann in South America are believable. So what Sepp Dietrich was doing there? He recovered nazi funds with help of Evita.
I don't want also to be accused of conspiracy theory, but please look at a few proven facts:

1. No one ever seen earthy remains of Martin Bormann until 1972.

2. Discovery of skeletons was by .... East German workers on the other side of the Wall.

3. Around this time rumours were circulating about top secret soviet spy "Werther", which was "close to highest circles of nazi Party".

4. Bormann's latest love, Manja Behrens lived happily in East Berlin...and she is popular among hi brasses of DDR like Otto Grotewohl and Walter Ulbricht.

What do you think about it?

Cheers,

Lancer44


That East German workers found the remains can be explained very easily:
Up to the fall of the Berlin Wall, the entire local railway system in Berlin (both east and West) belonged to the Reichsbahn, which was administered by East Berlin. Acc. to Allied rule, the tracks running in West Berlin were actually East German territory, so East German workers were used by the Reichsbahn for maintenance (though after the wall was built in 1961, the west Berliners boycotted the local commuter railway, the S-Bahn, system in favour of the purely West Berlin underground trains).
The East german workers operating in West Berlin were certainly especially vetted by the East German Stasi intelligence service and had family members left in the East as hostages.

Jan

Walther
10-01-2008, 10:37 PM
How about some info on famous black ladies in the war. Find some stuff about this and type it here s\o \i reads it ok?.

Since nobody seemed to have mentioned her:

JOSEPHINE BAKER (3.June 1903 in St. Louis, Missouri - 12.April 1975 in Paris, France)

Black American dancer, movie actress, comedian and singer, who became a celebity in France, after she joined the famous Folies Bergeres cabaret in Paris in 1925.
Her best known early role was her (almost) nude dance just dressed with a belt made up out of bananas.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Baker_Banana.jpg

She was also an accomplished jazz singer, and unlike earlier in the US, where she was essentially a chorus girl, she became a celebrated solo star in France, acting in movies as well. She soon learned how to speak fluently French and became a permanent resident in this country.
She was also very active among the group of various American ex-pats and became a muse for several important artists of this period, which included Ernest Hemingway ansd Pablo Picasso.
During this time (late 1920s, early 1930s) her theme song was "J'ai deux amours".
[YouTube link] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3y5dXSyWak

When WW2 started, she worked first as a Red Cross nurse, but later joined the women's branch of the French airforce as a sublieuntenant, but during the German occupation, she at first operated similarly as Edith Piaf, using her fame to smuggle intelligence signals for the French Resistance hidden in her music notes to e.g. Portugal.
Later she disappeared. Only after WW2 it was known that she had joined an active, fighting resistance unit in the Maquis, and later, when, due to her being too conspicious as a wellknown black woman, she went to Northern Africa, where she was playing an important role in the preperation of the Allied landings (AFAIK, she was a contact to local native leaders).

After WW2, she was awarded the Croix de Guerre, the Legion d'Honneur and the Rosette de la Resistance, medals, which the French don't hand out easily.
Unlike her main rival of her early days in France, singer Maurice Chevallier, she never had to justify any collaboration.

Later in the 1950s she took on an active stance against racism (partially caused by bad experiences she had while returning to the US, she greatly impressed another woman, actress Grace Kelly, who would help her out of a desperate financial situation years later) and, unable to children of her own due to medical reasons, started what she called "her Rainbow family" by adopting orphaned children from all over the world, living in a castle in rural France. At the same time she was still trying to earn a living by working in her profession.
Mrs. Baker was also very involved in the American civil rights movement of the 1950s.

http://www.globeweeklynews.com/Josephine%20Baker.jpg
http://www.spiritproject.de/horoskop/tag/images/josephine_baker.jpg
http://www.cheminsdememoire.gouv.fr/image/Biographies/GHJosephineBaker.jpg

A biographical site, giving details about her life and her fight during WW2:
http://www.cheminsdememoire.gouv.fr/image/Biographies/GHJosephineBaker.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cheminsdememoire.gouv.fr/personnage/josephine-baker-1906-1975,501,nl.php&h=374&w=300&sz=26&hl=en&start=1&um=1&usg=__fEIV0vZXPv1A1bncgYffy_Ov6s4=&tbnid=MtwhetJXCaDJUM:&tbnh=122&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJosephine%2BBaker%2BDe%2BGaulle%26um% 3D1%26hl%3Den%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

I was trying to find a still from a newsreel movie I have seen a while ago, showing Mrs. Baker in her French Airforce uniform after the war, during the ceremony, when she was awarded the decorations by General Valin. She looked very smart there!

Jan

flamethrowerguy
11-28-2008, 07:26 PM
Don't know who she is or what befell her but -along with the background music- I found this clip quite disturbing.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=dQWv9KpDWEg

Note she's wearing german army trousers.

(and Part 2: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ7N9E58dWo&watch_response)

namvet
11-28-2008, 07:31 PM
Don't know who she is or what befell her but -along with the background music- I found this clip quite disturbing.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=dQWv9KpDWEg

Note she's wearing german army trousers.

(and Part 2: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ7N9E58dWo&watch_response)

ill bet she was raped

Rising Sun*
11-29-2008, 04:29 AM
Don't know who she is or what befell her but -along with the background music- I found this clip quite disturbing.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=dQWv9KpDWEg


I'm not trying to steal your thunder, but I think I posted a link to the first and possibly the second video a while back. Can't recall the thread, but possibly one about Soviet misconduct in Germany? And I can't find it because the site search function is largely kaput, and has been for a while.

I also found the first one in particular quite disturbing.

There's a lot more conveyed in what we can see and what we read into it than in any words that could accompany it.

Then again, we don't have the context. I suppose it would be less disturbing if she was someone like the Bitch of Belsen and more disturbing if she was the virginal daughter of a vicar. That's probably not a morally satisfactory way to view someone who seems to be the victim of a violent rape or rapes, which is always an equally bad act regardless of who the victim is. But just vengeance can change things.

Our interpretation raises some other interesting questions. How do we react if we learn that she was raped by (a) Soviet troops (b) German troops (c) American troops (d) British troops?

flamethrowerguy
11-29-2008, 04:45 PM
I'm not trying to steal your thunder, but I think I posted a link to the first and possibly the second video a while back. Can't recall the thread, but possibly one about Soviet misconduct in Germany? And I can't find it because the site search function is largely kaput, and has been for a while.

I could have expected that this remarkable one was discovered before.


Our interpretation raises some other interesting questions. How do we react if we learn that she was raped by (a) Soviet troops (b) German troops (c) American troops (d) British troops?

To me it would make no difference from an ethical point of view.

Rising Sun*
11-30-2008, 07:26 AM
To me it would make no difference from an ethical point of view.

I agree, but I was wondering not about ethics but about the effects of selective anti-Soviet / pro-Allied presentations of history since WWII and the unconscious prejudices and preferences it generated which might influence people's perceptions and judgements of such behaviour.

Do people automatically assume that she has been the victim of Soviet troops rather than American / British, or even German, troops? I have to confess that that was my unthinking initial response, and that that response provoked me to question the reasons for it.

The Soviets have consistently been presented as a primitive, brutal, raping horde while the English-speaking Allies are presented as noble and chaste liberators as each group moved into and occupied Germany. There is evidence to contradict both presentations, but none of it has been prominent in the West so far as the Soviets are concerned since the Cold War rendered them as the anti-Christ in dominant conservative Western discourse.

If she had been beaten and raped by American troops, would that be more surprising than if she had been raped by Soviet troops? Would that attract greater or lesser condemnation and outrage? Would anyone believe it?

Nickdfresh
11-30-2008, 08:59 AM
I agree, but I was wondering not about ethics but about the effects of selective anti-Soviet / pro-Allied presentations of history since WWII and the unconscious prejudices and preferences it generated which might influence people's perceptions and judgements of such behaviour.

Do people automatically assume that she has been the victim of Soviet troops rather than American / British, or even German, troops? I have to confess that that was my unthinking initial response, and that that response provoked me to question the reasons for it.

The Soviets have consistently been presented as a primitive, brutal, raping horde while the English-speaking Allies are presented as noble and chaste liberators as each group moved into and occupied Germany. There is evidence to contradict both presentations, but none of it has been prominent in the West so far as the Soviets are concerned since the Cold War rendered them as the anti-Christ in dominant conservative Western discourse.

If she had been beaten and raped by American troops, would that be more surprising than if she had been raped by Soviet troops? Would that attract greater or lesser condemnation and outrage? Would anyone believe it?

The general theme that I have gathered throughout reading is that this perception may have originated, and is simply echoed from WWII era German conventional wisdom. From the "news" of both the Hitler regime, and the short lived one that followed: that as many Germans as possible should flee to the American and British sectors. Not because Americans or Brits are any better that the Soviet soldier. But because the perception was that they hadn't occupied the United States nor any significant portions of the UK, and that they would be treated much better overall than they would by the hordes of the Red Army, or the French --who were also accused of atrocities. The Germans were aware that their "chickens would come home to roost."

Krad42
12-01-2008, 11:44 AM
I don't think it matters who was responsible for such a thing. It is still a crime.

It is a fact that that Western propaganda and press have often pictured Americans and British soldiers to be the "good guys" that would have never done such a thing. It is also true that as a result of Cold War propaganda, the Soviets have been portrayed as "bad guys". However, I don't think that enough has ever been said about Soviet crimes and abuses, mostly because our alliance with them during that war makes us somewhat culpable. The evidence seems to point out at abuses and rapes being committed by all armies. The question is one of severity and number. I think that the crimes that the Allies in the West committed against the German people are mostly of another type.

The fact that POWs were allowed to starve and die of exposure...the fact that civilians weren't allowed to feed them...the fact that so many civilians died because of starvation of exposure as a direct result of actions by the victors...a process of "denazification" that they had no business doing...show trials were hardly fair...the movement of German refugees causing so many deaths, etc. In that sense, crimes committed in the West were more insidious, less obvious because they were crimes that were committed over a period of time.

The Russians were far more direct in their punishment of their German adversaries and the German people. While they also participated in crimes against refugees, they went on a rampage. There are enough accounts out there to get a good idea of what German women went through. I know of one such personal account. When I heard this account from the mouth of the person who went through it (this was several years ago) I had trouble sleeping for several days.

There has always been an attitude that the Germans did this and they did that and they had it coming or that the wish for vengeance was too great. In my book, there is no excuse to treat anyone like that. When we commit crimes like this because we think that we deserve to have some sort of "retribution" we become just like the enemy that we judge.