CHARACTERISTICS OF PRINCIPAL JAPANESE WEAPONS

[Gutkowski]

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/japanese-weapons-artillery.html

[Nickdfresh]

"CHARACTERISTICS OF PRINCIPAL JAPANESE WEAPONS"

Crap?

[Panzerknacker]

"CHARACTERISTICS OF PRINCIPAL JAPANESE WEAPONS"

Crap?

:lol: :lol: ...not everyone, they had some nice ones like the knee mortar

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1900/standard2ad.jpg

The sniper version of the 7,7mm rifle was very accurate, off course cannot be compared with a Garand M1 or a G-43.

[Nickdfresh]

"CHARACTERISTICS OF PRINCIPAL JAPANESE WEAPONS"

Crap?

:lol: :lol: ...not everyone, they had some nice ones like the knee mortar

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1900/standard2ad.jpg

The sniper version of the 7,7mm rifle was very accurate, off course cannot be compared with a Garand M1 or a G-43.

True. That weapon was a terror from what I heard, the Japs knew how to drop a round right on Allied warriors...

And more than a few Marines/soldiers broke their femur when they tried to brace the weapon by placing it on their leg, instead of the ground like it was intended when firing captured mortars back at the Imperial Army...

That Japanese also had a few good light machine guns that could be very effective... But overall, their infantry weapons were lacking (no anti-tank weapon?)

But the Japanese surely made up for their poor overall weapons with an immense fighting spirit of self-sacrifice, or "Third Force."

[Panzerknacker]

Probably the most crapy of all the japanese weapons is this, the suicide AT hollow charge wich was mounted in lunge.

http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/Prick-mine.JPG

The poor soldier had to press it against the armor to make it detonate, as long the wooden rod may be the blast and metal fragments got the user killing or seriously wounding him. :?

The job of japanese "Panzerjager" really sucks in those days.

[HG]

The Japs were crazy sun of a guns. They had many weapons that were suacide weapons. You are then just killing your own army. :lol:

Henk

[Nickdfresh]

I've also hear that Japanese soldiers used to sit in covered holes with an unexploded bomb, and a hammer to detonate it, and wait for a Sherman to drive over it.

[Panzerknacker]

That is correct, generally was an 50 kg aviation bomb. The suicide soldier I guees that would need some kind of dental identification after that. :?


Other more practical weapon was this, a throwing shaped charge the Type 3 AT Grenade
Officially, it was able to destroy a 70 mm thick armor.

http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/AT-grenade.JPG

[Cuts]

"CHARACTERISTICS OF PRINCIPAL JAPANESE WEAPONS"

Crap?

:lol: :lol: ...not everyone, they had some nice ones like the knee mortar

...

True. That weapon was a terror from what I heard, the Japs knew how to drop a round right on Allied warriors...

And more than a few Marines/soldiers broke their femur when they tried to brace the weapon by placing it on their leg, instead of the ground like it was intended when firing captured mortars back at the Imperial Army...

...

Hopefully the Japanese made a similar error when encountering the US ball grenade...

[Panzerknacker]

More info about the japanese infantry weapons can be found in here.

http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/infantry.htm


Type 100

http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/T100.JPG

[Panzerknacker]

Type 38 Rifle
Introduced Year : 1905
Caliber : 6.5 mm
Barrel Length : 797 mm
Length : 1,280 mm
Weight : 3.95 kg
Muzzle Velocity : 765 m/sec
Range : 3,000 m
Magazine : 5 rounds
Production Qty : 3,400,000


http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/38.JPG



Type 97 Sniper Rifle
Introduced Year : 1937
Caliber : 6.5 mm
Barrel Length : 797 mm
Length : 1,280 mm
Weight : 3.95 kg
Muzzle Velocity : 765 m/sec
Range : 3,000 m
Magazine : 5 rounds
Type 97 is the same as Type 38 Rifle, except a telescopic sight.

http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/97.jpg

[Timbo in Oz]

with the exception of the 7.7mm version of their top magazine LMG, ALL of them had poor primary extraction.

Given that all the original hotchkiss LMG's and MMG's had good 'primary extraction' (even the Chauchat did!) this must be presumed to have been an 'extra feature' provided for the IJA by Colonel Nambu. Who cleraly knew bugger all about conditions in and around the cartridge chamber walls immediately after firing.

If you want an automatic weapon the bolt (and extractor combined) have to have, for a brief period only and over a very short distance only, a very high 'mechanical advantage', pull or torque if that helps.

To pull the very hot cartridge case - still expanded and thus stuck to the very hot chamber walls - out from the breach, in time to make the firing rate worth having.

This led to lubricated cartridges.

That this is NOT hard to do is demonstrated by the fact that most other nation's automatic small arms did NOT have this problem

Other than Italy's MG's, which had the same problem, pity the poor Italian MGers in the desert with oiled cartridges!

[Man of Stoat]

In addition to the above, what also sometimes cause this problem is unlocking and attempting to extract too early whilst the cartridge case is still obturated. this can also result in the extractor tearing through the rim, as in the early Colt production M-16's.

[WaistGunner]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but my knowledge of the mechanical workings of fire arms is...shall we say, lacking. To me it is all magic. You put a round in the chamber, squeeze the magic level and abracadabra..your target is perforated.

In the conditions described by Timbo in Oz and Man of Stoat did this cause a porr firing rate or did it cause frequent jamming?

[Panzerknacker]

Yes it does, the lubricated shells also increased the amount of stress in the bolt s face, making prone to damaging the entire gun locking sistem.

japanese army infantryman, 1941.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/8619/infantejapones1tz5.jpg

[FW-190 Pilot]

is that true that they didnt really care about machine gun because they thought machine guns are not as accucate weapon as rifles?

[Panzerknacker]

I dont thnk so, the japs used MGs as far as any other major player in the WW2.


http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/4840/japodk0.jpg

[Nickdfresh]

In fact, I think their light machine guns were pretty good on the whole. The Japanese did lag behind on submachineguns though.

[Timbo in Oz]

I just can't agree that their LMG's were okay or pretty good, but they did do okay with them. All the Hotchkiss base MMG's the woodpeckers had the same extraction problem.

To top this all off by mid war they had three(4?) different infantry cartridges, a 6.5mm, and a lower loaded item for the original LMG, and two 7.7mm items, ballistically and externally identical, except one was rimless and t'other semi-rimmed. the rimmed round was a copy of the .303 british used by the IJN in the Vickers guns in the Zero, butts in the cockpit, just like in a WWi fighter

The main LMG at the beginning of WWII was the abortion with an open hopper so it COULD take standard 6.5mm rifle clips form the section's riflemen. Y you could fire a 2-rnd burts and then a 3-rd and then wait until the clip fell out and the next one indexed across.

But it COULDN't use the riflemen's rounds, because even if you oiled them the charge in the standard rifle cartridge was too powerful for the action to survive such use. hence the specail lower power cartridge which also move away from the sighting assumptions.

The next most important was the re=development of this weapon (by Colonel Nambu yet again) with a Bren style magazine. This model was capable of using the standard 6.5mm rifle cartridge, but they still had to be oiled!

The only LMG that did have good primary extraction was the 7.7mm version of the above. which fired a 7.7mm semi-rimless round otherwise identical to the fully rimmed and rimless 7.7mm rounds

It was never introduced in large numbers and only half way through the Pacific War.

[tom!]

Hi.

is that true that they didnt really care about machine gun because they thought machine guns are not as accucate weapon as rifles?

No, the japanese mg-gunners were taught to fire well aimed short bursts instead of continuous fire. This increased accuracy, saved ammo and decreased the temparature of the mg during action.

The problem the army had with automatic rifles and smg was that they thought, the average infantry soldier would use too much ammo. They didn´t really thought that the average japanese soldier would be able to control himself while firing like mg-gunners did.................

The problem of oiling the cartridges was also caused in the ammo used as Timbo in Oz mentioned.

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/maschinenwaffen/jap%20typ%2011%20lmg%20munizufuehrer%20detail.jpg

The type 38 6,5 mm rimmed infantry round had been developed for a single fire rifle and the the type Taisho 11 lmg were built for this ammo but had major problems.

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/maschinenwaffen/jap%20typ%2011%20lmg%20einsatz%20fahrrad.jpg

This is why special 7,7 mm rounds were developed for the type 92 naval mg, the type 92 hmg (the infamous Woodpecker) and also for the type 99 lmg (based on the type 99 rifle ammunition).

In 1941 the japanese Army and Navy used the following small arms ammunition types officially (maybe not complete):

- 7,1 mm nambu for the small type Taisho 10 pistol (Baby Nambu)
- 7,62 mm for the Mauser C96 (mainly Kwantung Army)
- 8 mm nambu for the type Taisho 10 pistol, the type Taisho 14 pistol and the type 94 pistol
- 9 mm for the type Meiji 26 double action revolver
- 6,5 mm tor the type Meiji 38 rifle, the type Meiji 38 carabine, the type Meiji 44 carabine, the type 97 sniper rifle and the type 96 lmg
- 6,5 mm for the type Taisho 11 lmg
- type 89 7,7 mm for the Vickers type naval hmg and the type 89 hmg
- type 92 7,7 mm for the type 92 and 98 hmg
- type 99 7,7 mm for the type 99 rifle and the type 99 sniper rifle
- type 99 7,7 mm for the type 99 lmg and the type 1 hmg (both in pre-series test production)
- 7,92 mm for the Mauser 98k carabines captured in China and the licence-built aircraft mg 15 and 17

During the war a special 7,7 mm round based on the type 99 rifle round was developed for the naval type 5 automatic rifle and a 7,65 mm round for the type 1 Hamada pistol. All other new developments (type 100, type 1 and type 2 TERA rifles; type 100 mp; type 3 hmg) used existing ammunition.



The main LMG at the beginning of WWII was the abortion with an open hopper so it COULD take standard 6.5mm rifle clips form the section's riflemen. Y you could fire a 2-rnd burts and then a 3-rd and then wait until the clip fell out and the next one indexed across.

But it COULDN't use the riflemen's rounds, because even if you oiled them the charge in the standard rifle cartridge was too powerful for the action to survive such use. hence the specail lower power cartridge which also move away from the sighting assumptions.

The next most important was the re=development of this weapon (by Colonel Nambu yet again) with a Bren style magazine. This model was capable of using the standard 6.5mm rifle cartridge, but they still had to be oiled!

.....


The type 96 lmg was in fact not a remodeled type Taisho 11 lmg but a remodeled czech type ZB 26 7,62 mm lmg (the infamous Bren was also remodeled from the ZB 26). Some of these modern lmg where captured in China.

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/maschinenwaffen/jap%20typ%2096%20lmg%20zwei%20versionen.jpg
The one in the back is a special version for parachute troops....

Yours

tom! ;)

[Panzerknacker]

Nice info Tom, the internal mechanism to catch the steel clip and load the ammo must be complicated. :neutral:

[Tony Williams]

The type 96 lmg was in fact not a remodeled type Taisho 11 lmg but a remodeled czech type ZB 26 7,62 mm lmg (the infamous Bren was also remodeled from the ZB 26). Some of these modern lmg where captured in China.
Infamous? There was nothing infamous about the Bren - one of the finest LMGs ever (as was its parent ZB 26).

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[Panzerknacker]

Sacrilege :twisted:

[tom!]

Hi.

I know that this is something like a sacrilege but I simply don´t like the ZB 26/Bren style. Limited ammo capacity (yes, I know there was also a larger magazine for the Bren but I prefer belt-fed mg) and relatively high weight. And a bad look, too.

So my opinion against another (I think almost everybody´s) opinion :rolleyes:

But that´s o. t. so let´s discuss this in the General WW II Discussion section....

I´ve forgotten the 8,1 mm round for the Kuwahara revolver

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/handwaffen/jap%20kuwahara%20revolver.jpg


http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/gewehre/jap%20typ%20meiji%2044%20karabiner%20dreiseiten.jp g
Type Meiji 44 carabine


http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/gewehre/jap%20typ%204%20automatisches%20Gewehr.jpg
Type 5 automatic rifle

Yours

tom!

[Nickdfresh]

One can clearly see the M-1 lineage in the Type5...

[Panzerknacker]

An obvious copy of the U.s rifle. The japanese infantryman was badly needed of more firepower for the platoon mostly equipped with Bolt action rifles.

[Pottsy]

The Japanese LMG's had a very major Flaw in mobile operations.

Having being a copy of European LMG's the tripod which she balanced on when used from a laying down position was designed for full sized adults.

Alot of Japanese were smaller than that.

Thus in ranges greater than very short Range many a burst of LMG would fly above the targets head before the operator got on target.

As the weapon would not be level and aimed upwards without the operator realising.

Saved alot of lifes and comprimised alot of Ambushes.

Many many soldiers speak of bullets bouncing off the tree's above there head and giving them the chance to seek cover.

In a bunker situation it had no such flaw.

[tom!]

Hi.

Only the type Taisho 11 LMG could be mounted on a tripod.

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/maschinenwaffen/jap%20typ%2011%20lmg%20dreibein%20liegend.jpg

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/maschinenwaffen/jap%20typ%2011%20lmg%20dreibein%20kniend.jpg

The type 96 LMG and type 99 LMG only had bipods and later a third "leg" attached at the buttplate.

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/maschinenwaffen/jap%20typ%2096%20lmg%20zwei%20versionen.jpg

All HMG and the type Taisho 11 LMG had special tripods designed and manufactured by japanese companies so the problem you mentioned may only have occured with the type Meiji 38 6,5 mm HMG after they were adopted in 1905.

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/maschinenwaffen/jap%20typ%20taisho%203%20hmg%202.jpg

Yours

tom!

[tom!]

Hi.

By the way, there was a special mount for the type 91 and type 97 tank MG and later the type 96/99 LMG providing armoured cover for the gunner:

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/panzerschutz/jap%20typ%2093%20mg%20schutzschild%20hinten.jpg

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/panzerschutz/jap%20typ%2093%20mg%20schutzschild%20vorn.jpg

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/panzerschutz/jap%20typ%2093%20mg%20schutzschild%20zweiseiten%20 skizze.jpg

Yours

tom! ;)

[Pottsy]

Hi.



All HMG and the type Taisho 11 LMG had special tripods designed and manufactured by japanese companies so the problem you mentioned may only have occured with the type Meiji 38 6,5 mm HMG after they were adopted in 1905.

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/maschinenwaffen/jap%20typ%20taisho%203%20hmg%202.jpg

Yours

tom!
Reading reports from operations in New Guinea and bouganville it just happened time and time again in Japanese ambushes, not sure on the "woodpecker" HMG as it was known but many a combatant reported there life being saved by high initial bursts after being ambushed. They investigate the drama after so many incedents and it was deemed as a result of in a laying position the LMG being designed for full sized caucasion adults.

In fact many observations of Japanese in mobile battles were made.

*Kinda impressed by the weapons knowlage on this forum*

[Redcoat Pete]

Tom

The Type 96 was not an adaptation of the ZB26 (though the Type 99 was). It was a completely different action to the Taisho 11 and the ZB series, and was emphatically not just another variant on the Hotchkiss action, as some UK experts state. It utilised a dropping block locking system and a rocking lever ejector (as in the Lewis LMG and Taisho 11), having very much in common with the Russian Simonov AVS36 semi-auto rifle action. It still had no primary extraction or CHS adjustment, necessitating the use of pre-oiled rounds. Other than that, it was a well-made weapon. Is it purely coincidence that it and the AVS36 both appeared in 1936?

Redcoat Pete

[tom!]

Hi.

I studied various sources (german Waffen Revue, article about MG 30(t)/ZB 26; US TME and weapon books, japanese sources) during the last days. All described the type 96 (and also type 99) lmg as a modified and rechambered version of the ZB 26. :confused:

Until now I have no idea what sources your opinion is based on. So please tell me your source. I´m allways interested in new sources.


By the way, Japan bought some 2150 MG ZB 26 in the late thirties and also built up a small scale production in China for local militia.

Yours

tom! ;)

[Redcoat Pete]

Hi

You're right, all the sources say "Hotchkiss" or "ZB Series", and I believed them, too.

I have the privelidge of working (unpaid!) in a museum that holds, among other weapons, a Taisho 11 AND a Type 96, both of which I have dismantled for conservation and I can say unequivocably that the action of the Type 96 is totally unlike that of the Taisho 11 or the ZB series, but is closely similar to diagrams I have to hand of the Simonov SVA36. I am also VERY familiar with that development of the ZB26 in British (and other) service, the BREN LMG and assure you that there is no similarity in the bolt/breech locking system at all.

Sorry if this keeps you awake nights - that's life!

[Splinter54]

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/maschinenwaffen/jap%20typ%2096%20lmg%20zwei%20versionen.jpg
The one in the back is a special version for parachute troops....

The Imperial Japan had Parachute Troops? Are there Pictures of them, which show them in training?
Is Japan still recruiting Paratrooper Units today?

Thanks! ;)

[tom!]

Hi.

The Japanese Ground Self Defence Force has at least one airbourne brigade which includes parachute troops (No info about organization, sorry).

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/fallschirmtruppe/jap%20fallschirmjaeger%20im%20flugzeug.jpg

The Imperial Japanese Army had around 16000 airbourne soldiers which were trained in parachute and airbourne assaults. Trainig started 1940. A total of 160 german advisors supervised the jump training in between fall 1940 and fall 1941. In Dezember 1941 one airbourne "division" consisting of two raiding "regiments" with around 2500 men was combat-ready. It was used during the initial stage of the invasion of Sumatra February 1942 as the first "regiment" landed during three days near the oil fields and refineries of Palembang. The task was to secure the refineries and two airfields (a commercial airfield and a military airstrip). Some 730 men jumped, casualty rate was over 80 %, the attack failed to archieve the targets.

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/fallschirmtruppe/jap%20fallschirmjaeger%20einstieg.jpg

Another landing occured on Timor where at least 400 men jumped to interrupt communication and supply lines. This attack was a success.

In China various small-scale operations (1-35 men) were done. Targets were the destruction of communication and supply and also to "persuade" local militia to change the sides by offering money or assasinating command personel.

During the Leyte operations in late 1944 a lager airbourne assault on US airstrips was launched. At least 2500 men landed on various airstrips (or tried to) using Ki-21 Bombers or Ki-57 transport planes. Most planes were shot down by air defence, the luckier crews were whiped out by ground forces before they could coordinate their efforts.

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/fallschirmtruppe/jap%20fallschirmjaeger.jpg

The Imperial Japanese Navy had two trained battalion-size formations , the 1st and 3rd Yokosuka Rikusentai (Special Naval Landing Force) These units received a one week jump training. The 1st SNLF landed near Menado Airfield in the north of Celebes and captured that airfield after a short hard fight. Transport was done by L3M transport planes, the transport version of the G3M land-based bomber. Heavy equipment was transported by flying boats to a nearby sea but arrived after the end of the fightings.

1st and 3rd SNLF suffered from heavy losses due to tropical deseases. After the operations against the NEI both formations were returned to Yokosuka where they were combined to a enlarged formation. The resulting 1st Yokosuka SNLF was used as ground force only and wiped out during the US island hopping operations.

http://www.ww2technik.de/Bilderchen/japinfwaffen/gefechtsbilder/jap%20paras%203.jpg

Yours

tom!

[Panzerknacker]

Nice Info, I have recently purchased this:

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/1841769037.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_SCLZZZZZZZ_V45313195_AA240_SH20_.jpg

I ll try to post more later.

[Panzerknacker]

Jap paras:


http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/1787/paramarinaqy4.jpg


Well, I let the link to the pictures, no time now.:cool:

http://www.elgrancapitan.org/foro/viewtopic.php?t=11604