Medal of Honor for Major Richard D. Winters

[Gutkowski]

Medal of Honor for Major Richard D. Winters

To: Secretary of the Army

Major Richard D. Winters, of Easy Company, 101st Airborne Division, 506th Regiment, is being made to wait for his Medal of Honor. Major Winters will never say that he deserves it, but the men who fought for him are doing so for him. Your office seems to be our only obstacle in getting Major Winters has Medal of Honor. We ask you, sir, why?

Guys Please Sign This
Thanks
Gut-

http://www.petitiononline.com/Winters/petition.html

[Tsolias]

Signed.

[Dani]

Signed as well.

[Gen. Sandworm]

Im the 13154 signer to the petition.

For those that havent signed what are your objections? Just curious!

[Man of Stoat]

a) it is an Internet poll. These are either ignored, or used to harvest e-mail addresses for spam purposes. Or both.

b) if it wasn't for a television dramatisation, this guy would have been unheard of. I find it rather tasteless that a petition should be made to nominate someone for one of the highest awards the US military can bestow on anybody on the basis of the publicity he received through a dramatisation of his actions on the television.

c) civilians have no right to nominate people for awards in this way. Well-meaning though they may be, who do these people think they are? If he wasn't deemed deserving of one at the time, why does he deserve one now? But... his story was... dramatised on TV... and... and... he was a hero... and... etc etc etc...

d) it is probably a WAH anyway, or at least I'm hoping it is.

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

Signed. Number 13156. :D

[Firefly]

I'm in complete and absolute agreement with Stoat here. If he deserved the MoH he would have been awarded it.

You cannot change the values that defined an award 60 years ago just because you feel like it.

[Hanz Lutz]

I am signed .

[Firefly]

Can any of you who have signed please give a reason for doing so other than Band of Brothers was a good drama?

[Dani]

Can any of you who have signed please give a reason for doing so other than Band of Brothers was a good drama?

Without Band of Brothers, Major Richard D. Winters would be only a name in a history book (amongst thousands names) for me.

@Man of Stoat
a)Agree. But personally I don't care. Or more, maybe it serves to a sociologycal purpose.

b)Agree partially (see above comments on Firefly). I'd comment that anyway, all nominations are made based on publicity (!!!!) Think about medals awarded for real. If the mates wouldn't talk about bravery, courage, situations, etc, and based on this wouldn't be opened an investigation about, there won't be any medal.

c)I voted with my heart not with my head. I felt that I have to sign.
On who do these people think they are? I want to remeber you that throughout the history these kind of actions had changed governments, societies and more important - conceptions.

Finally I want to say that I am not interested if the major will receive (rather impossible) the MoH, I was interested to express my feelings.

[Man of Stoat]

What about all the others who were equally, or more brave and accomplished who didn't have a TV miniseries made about them?

[Dani]

What about all the others who were equally, or more brave and accomplished who didn't have a TV miniseries made about them?
As I said, this major would be only a name in a history book (amongst thousands names) for me, without the miniseries.

If somebody will decide to make a movie or to read a novel (both based on true stories!! - please note) about another "name" from those thousands (or millions) and his work will tell something to me, I'll vote that without any hesitation because I learned about that name. He will be no more a name but a person.

The others, maybe more brave, will remain only names without their actions revealed even in a movie. Sad but true.

[Tsolias]

IMHO all men that have distinguised themselves in combat in the biggest and blodiest war this planet has ever seen, deserve the highesst decoration their country can award.
Also, since the men that fought with him agree about this decoration who are we to say that he doesn't?

[Dani]

What about all the others who were equally, or more brave and accomplished who didn't have a TV miniseries made about them?
As I said, this major would be only a name in a history book (amongst thousands names) for me, without the miniseries.

If somebody will decide to make a movie or to read a novel (both based on true stories!! - please note) about another "name" from those thousands (or millions) and his work will tell something to me, I'll vote that without any hesitation because I learned about that name. He will be no more a name but a person.

The others, maybe more brave, will remain only names without their actions revealed even in a movie. Sad but true.

Edited off-topic: If "Bridge over the river Kwai" wouldn't have been written, what you would felt about (rather than improving your knowledges reading few phrases in a history book)?


2nd edit: If my posts seems not fully understandable, I apologise. I will study English Grammar more intense :D

[Man of Stoat]

Edited off-topic: If "Bridge over the river Kwai" wouldn't have been written, what you would felt about (rather than improving your knowledges reading few phrases in a history book)?


2nd edit: If my posts seems not fully understandable, I apologise. I will study English Grammar more intense :D

That film bears very little resemblance to reality, particularly in the portrayal of the British officers.

[Dani]

Edited off-topic: If "Bridge over the river Kwai" wouldn't have been written, what you would felt about (rather than improving your knowledges reading few phrases in a history book)?


2nd edit: If my posts seems not fully understandable, I apologise. I will study English Grammar more intense :D

That film bears very little resemblance to reality, particularly in the portrayal of the British officers.

Then how about "A bridge too far" novel? Would be Colonel Frost so well known (as well as operation " Market" and operation "Garden" joined together) without that novel? :D

Moving back to topic, was Band of Brothers much closer to reality?

[Man of Stoat]

Edited off-topic: If "Bridge over the river Kwai" wouldn't have been written, what you would felt about (rather than improving your knowledges reading few phrases in a history book)?


2nd edit: If my posts seems not fully understandable, I apologise. I will study English Grammar more intense :D

That film bears very little resemblance to reality, particularly in the portrayal of the British officers.

Moving back to topic, was Band of Brothers much closer to reality?

I have no idea, and the fact that you asked the question at all shows that you know nothing about the man other than what was portrayed in the miniseries. This being the case, why do you feel the need to petition the U.S. Army to give him a medal? Do not think that they perhaps know more about him than you do?

Sorry if I am sounding harsh, but this whole thing seems extremely tasteless.

[Dani]

the fact that you asked the question at all shows that you know nothing about the man other than what was portrayed in the miniseries
I already said that! :D :D Without the miniseries, this major would be just a name in a book. Now that I learned about him, he is no more a name to me, but a brave soldier who deserved a medal, you got it?
Generally, propaganda is based on human feelings, isn't it?

Do not think that they perhaps know more about him than you do?
For sure they know more than me. There is no doubt.

This being the case, why do you feel the need to petition the U.S. Army to give him a medal?
Because in my heart he deserved one (remember that I have said that I voted with my heart :D ). Besides that, it is my right to do this and I will be very pleased if this petition will receive ever an official answer. Even if it would be negative (and it will be negative!).

Sorry if I am sounding harsh...

:lol: :lol: There is no problem MoS.

but this whole thing seems extremely tasteless
It is your opinion and I respect it.

[Dani]

More to add:
A particular reason should be also the fact that Gen. Sandworm, Tsolias, PzKpfw VI Tiger, Clauss and myself belongs to 101st Airborne usergroup. :D

To be mentioned that I respect as well Firefly's opinion (who is a British member of 101st usergroup).

[1000ydstare]

Having watched Band of Brothers (in the Gulf '03, it was about the only DVD we were given for entertainment, watched on my laptop by about 40 blokes!!! :D ) and read the link I feel compelled to say that I respect the said individual.

However I do not feel that we should be the ones to countermand a medal he has already won. Which is what you are doing if you sign this petition. If we opened the books in the cold light of day we would hand out many Congressional Medals of Honour, as we would Victoria Crosses and as many medals as you could say.

He did what he did and no medal will ever replace the admiration and respect of his fellows which he clearly has. I am sure he was not the only officer in his position at that time nor any time previous to cope as best he could and recieve the thanks of his men rather than the mere thanks of his nation.

Is it an injustice? Yes, but it would be unjust still to the other men and women who have not been awarded the appropriate medal for their actions. Perhaps the moreso as only popularity through a mini series has prompted such action for this particular man. Had the series been about Able company perhaps this thread would bear the name of yet another fine man who did his duty to the best of his ability, regardless of the bad hand he was dealt.

Medals are awarded by the Military and political body in the respective countries, not by the mob. There will always be those who win medals they do not deserve, those who don't receive the medal they should and those who receive nothing.

But those who stand there wearing a lower medal than deserved or none, are still stood proud. It is not the monarchy, politicians or mob who award the highest award of all. Perhaps even god, who ever he/she/it is to you, doesn't have a say. It is the men who relied upon you, or looked to you who award the greatest sign of bravery, a sign you will never see nor hold it but it is still there.

[Gen. Sandworm]

I dont think there is anything wrong with showing support for someone. Yes I learned about him from the miniseries. I signed because thats how I can show support for him and the men that served under him.

However I would be extremely shocked if the US Army (who im sure is aware the most are signing because of the miniseries) actually took it seriously. I do agree that civilians should have absolutely no say in military affairs such as the medal of honor.

Lastly I am glad that I asked the "For those that havent signed what are your objections?" question. It has sparked a rather interesting debate.

[George Eller]

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I have the series "Band of Brothers" on DVD. If I am not mistaken, according to the bonus features of the set, Dick Winters passed away shortly after the series was produced.

Even if he was to be awarded the medal, he would not be around to receive it.
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[pdf27]

One comment: the article attached to the petition appears to be calling for him to be given the MoH based upon his leadership ability, not his personal bravery. So far as I recall, no US medals are awarded on the basis of leadership ability.

[Gen. Sandworm]

One comment: the article attached to the petition appears to be calling for him to be given the MoH based upon his leadership ability, not his personal bravery. So far as I recall, no US medals are awarded on the basis of leadership ability.

Not exactly true! Now not comparing the 2 men but

MacARTHUR, DOUGLAS

Rank and organization: General, U.S. Army, commanding U.S. Army Forces in the Far East. Place and date: Bataan Peninsula, Philippine Islands. Entered service at: Ashland, Wis. Birth: Little Rock, Ark. G.O. No.: 16, 1 April 1942. Citation: For conspicuous leadership in preparing the Philippine Islands to resist conquest, for gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action against invading Japanese forces, and for the heroic conduct of defensive and offensive operations on the Bataan Peninsula. He mobilized, trained, and led an army which has received world acclaim for its gallant defense against a tremendous superiority of enemy forces in men and arms. His utter disregard of personal danger under heavy fire and aerial bombardment, his calm judgment in each crisis, inspired his troops, galvanized the spirit of resistance of the Filipino people, and confirmed the faith of the American people in their Armed Forces.

One of my personal favorites
MURPHY, AUDIE L.

Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army, Company B 1 5th Infantry, 3d Infantry Division. Place and date: Near Holtzwihr France, 26 January 1945. Entered service at: Dallas, Tex. Birth: Hunt County, near Kingston, Tex. G.O. No.. 65, 9 August 1945. Citation 2d Lt. Murphy commanded Company B, which was attacked by 6 tanks and waves of infantry. 2d Lt. Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to prepared positions in a woods, while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone. Behind him, to his right, 1 of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. Its crew withdrew to the woods. 2d Lt. Murphy continued to direct artillery fire which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, 2d Lt. Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer, which was in danger of blowing up at any moment, and employed its .50 caliber machinegun against the enemy. He was alone and exposed to German fire from 3 sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver. The enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminate 2d Lt. Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad which was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards, only to be mowed down by his fire. He received a leg wound, but ignored it and continued the single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack which forced the Germans to withdraw. His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he killed or wounded about 50. 2d Lt. Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction, and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective.

Info is from the following site which states the action of all MoH recipients.

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm

[pdf27]

Not exactly true! Now not comparing the 2 men but

MacARTHUR, DOUGLAS

Rank and organization: General, U.S. Army, commanding U.S. Army Forces in the Far East. Place and date: Bataan Peninsula, Philippine Islands. Entered service at: Ashland, Wis. Birth: Little Rock, Ark. G.O. No.: 16, 1 April 1942.
Does have the feeling of a political award (not exactly unknown with the MoH - see for instance the battalion during the ACW who were awarded it for extending their enlistment by a few months, although thankfully it was later forfeited). I don't see any act in there deserving of such an award - while if there were another similar one for leadership he might well be in the running.

[Firefly]

By all accounts and from that Citation Murphy earned his MoH. This is what made him famous and got his acting career off to a start, he was only 3 foot six though!

[Gutkowski]

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I have the series "Band of Brothers" on DVD. If I am not mistaken, according to the bonus features of the set, Dick Winters passed away shortly after the series was produced.

Even if he was to be awarded the medal, he would not be around to receive it.
-


Winters is still alive ,but he is not doing so well he has parkinson disease

http://www.majordickwinters.com/

[George Eller]

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Gutkowski wrote:
Winters is still alive, but he is not doing so well he has parkinson disease.

http://www.majordickwinters.com/

Thanks Gutkowski. I'm glad to hear that.

It might have been Lieutenant Spears that passed away about the time of the filming. Captain Nixon died in 1995 according to the bonus features on the "Band of Brothers" DVD set.

Major Winters appears to be a very modest and noble man from the interviews of him and his fellow "Easy" Company veterans during the series. One quote comes to mind from a conversation with his grandson - "Grandpa, were you a hero during the war. Grandpa said, no, but I served in a Company of Heroes".
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[Gutkowski]

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Gutkowski wrote:
Winters is still alive, but he is not doing so well he has parkinson disease.

http://www.majordickwinters.com/

Thanks Gutkowski. I'm glad to hear that.

It might have been Lieutenant Spears that passed away about the time of the filming. Captain Nixon died in 1995 according to the bonus features on the "Band of Brothers" DVD set.

Major Winters appears to be a very modest and noble man from the interviews of him and his fellow "Easy" Company veterans during the series. One quote comes to mind from a conversation with his grandson - "Grandpa, were you a hero during the war. Grandpa said, no, but I served in a Company of Heroes".
-
Ya that made me want to give him a hug and tell him that he and his men were Heros :D

[cpl condor]

I have to agree with Stoat, the MOH is given for people who go above and beyond the call of duty. Maj. Winters is a great man but he was doing the job he was trained for, if you give the MOH to him what about all the brave men who were with him? It is a nice gesture to want to reward him for his service but if we give the MOH to everyone who did a great job, I believe the medal would lose its meaning.
Agree.

[Gutkowski]

Criteria: The Medal of Honor is awarded by the President, in the name of Congress, to a person who, while a member of the Army, distinguishes himself or herself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his or her life above and beyond the call of duty while engaged in action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. The deed performed must have been one of personal bravery or self-sacrifice so conspicuous as to clearly distinguish the individual above his or her comrades and must have involved risk of life. Incontestable proof of the performance of the service will be exacted and each recommendation for the award of this decoration will be considered on the standard of extraordinary merit.

[limey_dave]

nominate Damian Lewis for the MoH. He did do a great job of portraying Winters.
Personally, if i take into account lots of other non Ambrose material on Easy, I would nominate Richard Speirs. Now that guy sounds like a true warrior and was in the thick of it all the way through. IMHO
But don't get me started on Ambrose. That is one guy i have lots to say on and most of it (but not all) is not good.

[Nickdfresh]

nominate Damian Lewis for the MoH. He did do a great job of portraying Winters.
Personally, if i take into account lots of other non Ambrose material on Easy, I would nominate Richard Speirs. Now that guy sounds like a true warrior and was in the thick of it all the way through. IMHO
But don't get me started on Ambrose. That is one guy i have lots to say on and most of it (but not all) is not good.


Agreed. Many newer staff on the set of BOB refused to believe he was British. In fact, I was shocked to see him on a PBS station (in The Forsyte Saga) in the States speaking in his normal dialect.

[Norris]

Signed

[Gen. Sandworm]

Might refresh this one coz Winters (whom im sure is perfectly happy without one) was initally put in for the MoH. Just noticed that no one ever mentioned this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._Winters

I think this is more of the reason for the poll. To reconsider why he didnt recieve the award.

I still dont think that average citizens should be involved in military affairs of this nature. But if they were then I ask them to reconsider.

[GermanSoldier]

signed

[VonWeyer]

I still dont think that average citizens should be involved in military affairs of this nature.

Agreed, but for what it is worth............signed.

[town3173]

“Lieutenant Winters was recommended for the Medal of Honor for leading an assault that destroyed a battery of German 105 mm howitzers which were situated to fire onto the causeways that served as the principal exits from Utah Beach during the D-Day assault. The guns were defended by at least one platoon of Germans; Winters had only 12 men. The assault occurred south of Le Grand-Chemin, and is often referred to as the Brécourt Manor Assault. In addition to taking out the battery Winters also obtained a map detailing all German defenses in the Utah Beach area. The recommendation was later downgraded to the Distinguished Service Cross, the U.S. military's second highest award for combat valor, due to the policy of only one Medal of Honor awarded per division (Lieutenant Colonel Robert G. Cole was the 101st Airborne soldier to receive the Medal of Honor for the Normandy Campaign)”

I copied this from the link above. It seems Winters may not have received the MOH because it was policy to issue only one per division per campaign and not because his actions lacked merit. I know the source of this info is biased but it would not be unusual for a decision on who received an award to be decided because of rank as well as any other supporting evidence.

I don’t want to undermine Colonel Cole’s achievements, I’m sure he is a very brave man. However, it would be interesting to compare the reccomendations made for both men.

Having said that, I have no doubt other officers & men were reccomended for the MOH in Normandy from the 101st who may also have had there award down graded or even turned down totally.

Signed, a decision made purely for emotional reasons.

[GermanSoldier]

Put him in your prayers to get better.

[Francesca1973]

I signed because I have the the right to express my opinion freely and without fear, thanks to men and women from every Allied country. Band of Brothers is an important series. It's not just "stupid American television". It focused on one group of men because that was necessary to the story line. But the bravery of these men is representative of all the men, from every Allied country who served on the front lines during WWII. It tells every soldier's story. And it brings much needed recognition to these men, (and women). People who would have never been interested in learning about WWII are now watching and talking about this series.

[Sgt.Malarky]

I'm the 22680TH. to sign.

[bwing55543]

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Gutkowski wrote:


Thanks Gutkowski. I'm glad to hear that.

It might have been Lieutenant Spears that passed away about the time of the filming. Captain Nixon died in 1995 according to the bonus features on the "Band of Brothers" DVD set.

Major Winters appears to be a very modest and noble man from the interviews of him and his fellow "Easy" Company veterans during the series. One quote comes to mind from a conversation with his grandson - "Grandpa, were you a hero during the war. Grandpa said, no, but I served in a Company of Heroes".
-

Spiers actually died this year, back in April.

[albatrosdva]

Instead of fighting for Winters to get his MofH can't we fight to get metals for the USS Franklin survivors that were treated like deserters because it was too hot and they jumped off or were blown off? Even plank owners were not allowed to get back on board their ship because of the stupid captain.

[Keystone Two-Eight]

One thing that always bothered me about that series; given the dramatization, one would think that the men of the 101st solely kept the Germans at bay throughout the Battle of the bulge-which they certainly had a major part in- but what of the men from the other divisions who went up against the Germans before the 101st could get to Bastogne? They portray them in such a bad light, as if they just up and quit. Read "Alamo in the Ardennes" if you want to look for some guys who deserve the MOH.

[Nickdfresh]

One thing that always bothered me about that series; given the dramatization, one would think that the men of the 101st solely kept the Germans at bay throughout the Battle of the bulge-which they certainly had a major part in- but what of the men from the other divisions who went up against the Germans before the 101st could get to Bastogne? They portray them in such a bad light, as if they just up and quit. Read "Alamo in the Ardennes" if you want to look for some guys who deserve the MOH.

Excellent comment and I couldn't agree more. The US divisions that fought the Germans at the Bulge suffered heavy casualties and in many cases ceased to exist as combat effective units...

But they also slowed the German advance and destroyed a large number of Heer combat armored fighting vehicles. The offensive had lost much of its momentum even by the time the 101st reinforced bastonge...

[redcoat]

Agreed. Many newer staff on the set of BOB refused to believe he was British.
Actually, 75% of the actors in Band Of Brothers were British ;)

[Warpig]

Signed, because i feel that a cool tv series is reason enough for the highest US order.

[Keystone Two-Eight]

Like it was stated before, civililians have no right to demand the MOH be given to anyone, so while I can appreciate the gesture, it is pretty much an act of futility. Moreover, Maj. Winters already said he didnt want the MOH anyway, so who are we to go against his wishes? Furthermore, call me a snob if you will, but I'm not putting my signature on anything containing a sentence like:

"We am pleading with you, sir, to right the wrong that should have been taken care of sixty years ago"

(2nd to last sentence in petition) Call me crazy, but Im pretty sure the Army will not take it very seriously with massive grammatical errors.

[Rising Sun*]

Everybody who knows how military politics and propaganda works knows that medals of any sort aren't awarded fairly in any nation.

One of the best examples being the later President Lyndon B Johnson's Silver Star for not going on a bombing mission which didn't result in any medals for the crews which actually reached and bombed the target, because MacArthur was sucking up to him. http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/johnson.silver.star/story/storypage.html

Anyone in uniform in a fighting unit (as distinct from brief operational passengers like Johnson who were fawned upon by commanders like MacArthur) who got a valour award almost certainly deserved it.

Many others who did as much or more didn't get one, because of quotas or because an officer (or at least an officer who survived the action) didn't see it or because propaganda needs were slow that month or directed elsewhere and so on.

There is no reason to single out Winters as deserving of a belated award just because he happens to be the subject of a popular book and television series. As he would no doubt acknowledge, there were thousands of others who deserved the same award who didn't get it. And who won't be the focus of an ill informed campaign to get it, unless some author or television program or film chooses to focus on their unit as if it's the only unit that fought in the war.

Many officers and men in, for example, the 1st Marine Division in the Pacific did much more than Winters and his men under worse conditions with less support against a worse enemy long before Winters and his men landed in Europe and they're not acknowledged with medals, and won't be, because they don't figure in a popular book or television series.

What's done is done.

Leave it at that.

[Nigel R Sheehan]

what redcoat has said is completely right. However stories emerging from the second world war are now shown to a bigger audience and more and more people would like heroes from wwII awarded - I am for Major Winters receiving the medal of honour. The only VC that was won on D day was to Sgt Hollis. However there is no book, no film to my knowledge about him. I had never heard of him until I was looking at the award of the VC. The late great Stephen Ambrose wrote the book BOB and people wanted more for the heroes that they had read about and had seen on the tv. That is how it appears to me but I am probably wrong, i dont know.