View Full Version : Panzer ii outperforms crusader mk ii in combat?

12-15-2005, 07:16 PM
well this question has been bugging me for a while. Does the pz ii outperform the crusader mkii? I thought the crusaders 4pndr 40mm gun would penetrate the pz2s flimsy armor. Well, any experts out there? :P

12-15-2005, 09:10 PM

Well, any experts out there? :P

Nope, but expect to receive loads of uninformed opinion.


12-16-2005, 12:41 AM

Edited: Sorry, mate. It is very easy for me to be an "expert" with your post... :D

It is not 4pounder but 2pounder gun and it's not Crusader mkii but Crusader II (Mk VI). :D :D

12-16-2005, 08:24 AM
The heaviest PzII had armour with a maximum thickness of 35mm, which the QF 2pdr could penetrate at over 1,000m (according to Dani's link).

The Crusader II had a maximum armour thickness of 40mm, which the German 20mm KwK38 would struggle to penetrate at 100m.

If all things were equal, the Crusader should easily outclass the PzII, but it would also come down to the tactical situation, crew training and so on.

BTW - cheers for that link Dani

12-16-2005, 09:43 AM
Tactical training and a Radio. Did the UK put radios into every tank at this stage of the war?

12-16-2005, 10:37 AM
Tactical training and a Radio. Did the UK put radios into every tank at this stage of the war?

Crusaders had radios - Source (http://www.wwiivehicles.com/unitedkingdom/cruiser/mk_vi_crusader.html)

From the site Dani posted (link above) -

"In early models the crew communicated through one way Tannoy speakers. This was later replaced by No. 19 wireless set which had an intercom."


"Crusader I (Mk VI): Original production vehicle.
The commander sat at the rear with the wireless equipment."

12-16-2005, 11:33 AM
Your right, then the Crusader definately outclasses the PzII.

In fact I did this little experiment. 10 x PzII against six Crusaders, I know its only a war-game but it is a good simulation:


All of the PzII were lost within 5 minutes, they didnt even scratch the Brit Tanks.

12-16-2005, 01:25 PM
What game's that Firefly?

12-16-2005, 02:34 PM
Combat Mission Afrika Corps.


They also have Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin, which covers the whole Ostfront.

Its not RTS, its more a simulation. Graphics may be a wee bit older but gameplay is just right.

You have to use real life tactics and understand your weapons, both infantry and armour to give a good acount of yourself.

If interested you can buy it at Game, both of them plus the older one, for about 10-20 quid.

Money well spend I'd say as there are thousands of battles to download and hundreds of Mods too.

I'll stop raving now, but its my favourite war-game.

Here is an image from an Ostfront game Im playing now:


12-16-2005, 02:37 PM
May well be investing a bit of my Chrimbo money then, once the new Football Manager I'm getting's had an airing.