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George Eller
12-03-2005, 09:57 PM
Various websites and images relating to the Netherlands East Indies and the KNIL (Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger or Royal Netherlands Indies Army), the Dutch colonial army in the Netherlands East Indies (present day Indonesia).

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6388/neibanner6rh.jpg
Welcome to the Forgotten Campaign: The Dutch East Indies Campaign 1941-1942 website
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/

Welcome to KNIL-history!
Koninklijk Nederlandsch Indisch Leger
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history

Overvalwagens!
Kaleidoscope of military vehicles of the Dutch East and West Indies before 1945
http://www.overvalwagen.com/

World War II Armed Forces – Orders of Battle and Organizations by Dr. Leo Niehorster
Kingdom of the Netherlands Armed Forces
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/__nl.htm

Welkom Bij De Tijger Brigade op Midden Java 1946 - 1949
(Tiger Brigade in Post-WWII Netherlands East Indies - Central Java)
http://members.lycos.co.uk/tigerbrigade/

Dutch Re-enactment site
http://www.livinghistory.nl/
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8861/knilreenactors7it.jpg

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http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5989/dutchnavybanner0ra.jpg
http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/

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http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4986/recruitmentposter5cc.jpg
KNIL Recruiting Poster

Following photos from website: Het KNIL - Een Historisch Document, Hendrik Engelen (1914 - 1984) Soldaat in het Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger http://home.wish.net/~mmann/fotos3.htm

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/629/knilgroupshot15qm.jpg
KNIL Group Photo

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9628/knil1pw.jpg
KNIL Infantry Training in Netherlands East Indies
KNIL infantry training in the Netherlands East Indies prior to World War II. The Madsen can be seen in the middle foreground. Behind are troops armed with Mannlicher M95 bolt-action rifles.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5388/kniltraining27tr.jpg
KNIL infantry training in the Netherlands East Indies prior to World War II.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5463/kniltraining34wy.jpg
KNIL infantry training in the Netherlands East Indies prior to World War II.

Various Weaponry used by the KNIL:

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3797/madsen10ad.jpg
Madsen Light Machine Gun
This is the version as used in the Netherlands East Indies. Photo provided by Mr. Eric Nuyt

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4853/madsen23sm.jpg
Madsen Light Machine Gun
A close up of the type used in the Netherlands East Indies. Photo provided by Mr. Eric Nuyt.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5205/solothurns1810002hz.jpg
Solothurn S18-1000 Anti-Tank Rifle 2

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9251/dutchtank12le.jpg
Dutch light tank - British built Vickers Model 1936 - known as "Dutchmen" to the British. Taken on parade at the Koningsplein in Batavia (Jakarta), Java 31 Aug 1941

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6839/dutchtank21pp.jpg
British built Vickers Model 1936

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9889/dutchknilvickerstank2yt.jpg
Dutch light tank - British built Vickers Model 1936 - Netherlands East Indies

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8977/dutchtankparade23ox.jpg
Dutch Marmon Harrington Light Tanks as used in Netherlands East Indies

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Firefly
12-04-2005, 07:43 AM
Some nice stuff there, thanks for the informative post. I have to say that I dont fancy the uniforms much after having seen them in colour.

George Eller
12-04-2005, 06:04 PM
You're welcome. Yes, the uniforms are a bit bright, but not too far off from the green uniforms worn by other nations that fought in the Pacific and SE Asia. The boots were black canvas and leather similar to those worn by American forces in Vietnam and later ("Jungle" boots):
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/uniformsampequipment.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=223

Hiddenrug
12-05-2005, 02:16 AM
With Operation Market Garden did the KNIL help the allies?

Man of Stoat
12-05-2005, 03:23 AM
With Operation Market Garden did the KNIL help the allies?

PROWORD NO WAH:

No, they were in Indonesia. This is what geographers call "a bloody long way" from the Arnhem area.

Cuts
12-05-2005, 04:54 AM
With Operation Market Garden did the KNIL help the allies?

Yes, they assisited with indirect fire support.

They used their very, very, very, very, very, very, long range howitzers.






By mail...

George Eller
12-14-2005, 08:48 PM
I bought these at an antique shop about ten years ago. Below are some scans pertaining to the Netherlands East Indies from each of the two issues of Time Magazine: 26 January 1942 and 09 March 1942.

Netherlands East Indies - Time Magazine - 26 January 1942
Time Magazine - 26 Jan 1942 - General Ter Poorten of the Netherlands East Indies on the cover. News on war in the Indies as was known at that time.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9919/time26jan42012bh.jpg

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3586/time26jan42023ny.jpg

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3501/time26jan42030bm.jpg

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/7157/time26jan42048wg.jpg

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8966/time26jan42059no.jpg

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Netherlands East Indies - Time Magazine - 09 March 1942
Time Magazine - 09 March 1942 - Admiral Helfrich of the Dutch Navy on cover. News stories on war in the Indies as was known at that time.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3285/time09mar42011oa.jpg

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8183/time09mar42028gk.jpg

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3206/time09mar42031mn.jpg

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9146/time09mar42043ps.jpg

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/33/time09mar42059gw.jpg

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/913/time09mar42069ci.jpg

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Rising Sun*
06-02-2007, 11:46 PM
Something that's generally ignored, probably because the Dutch tend to be written off as irrelevant in the Pacific War after the NEI fell. Well, they weren't. As shown by the bold section in the following quote, they made an important and immediate contribution from the beginning of the Allied push on Japan.




Introduction

The Royal Netherlands and East Indies Forces operated from Australia as part of the allied opposition to Japan during World War Two.
The Netherlands and the USA were the only non-Commonwealth allies to establish bases in Australia during the war. When the Netherlands East Indies (now Indonesia) fell to the Japanese, remnants of naval, army, air and merchant marine forces relocated to Australia. They were joined here by Dutch people from Europe and other areas to form fighting and support units. Operating from Australian bases for the rest of the war, these Dutch forces made an important contribution to the defence of Australia and eventual allied victory. Queen Wilhelmina of The Netherlands announced her government declared war on Japan in 1941, making the Dutch and Australian peoples allies in the forthcoming struggle.


A Brief History

The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour on 7 December 1941, and in the next three months overwhelmed much of South East Asia and the islands to Australia's north. The Philippines fell quickly, along with the Malay Peninsula and the vital British base of Singapore. Such was the speed of the Japanese advance that only ten weeks after Pearl Harbour, they attacked Darwin. Eager to secure vital war-fighting resources, particularly oil and rubber, they rapidly moved towards the Netherlands East Indies (Indonesia).
The Netherlands had built up land and sea forces, each with air support, within the Netherlands East Indies (N.E.I.). These NEI forces became part of a hastily formed American, British, Dutch and Australian (ABDA) alliance to oppose the Japanese. Unfortunately, ABDA did not have time to become a cohesive force and although many elements fought bravely, it was no match for the highly trained, well equipped and well led Japanese.
When the Japanese Imperial navy destroyed the Dutch-battle cruisers De Ruyter and Java, the HMAS Perth and the USS Houston to win the Battle of the Java Sea on 26 February 1942, all chance of saving the NEI was gone. Selected elements of the NEI forces were relocated to allied countries, including Australia.
In some ways Australia was an "any port in a storm" choice, for it too was threatened. The Japanese had moved into northern New Guinea, hoping to take over the whole island. This would complete their dominance of Australia's northern approaches, greatly reducing Australia's usefulness as a base for allied counter attacks. Their ability to invade Australia would also be much enhanced. Denying the Japanese control of New Guinea and the nearby approaches to Australia thus became a key allied strategy.
The Battle of the Coral Sea prevented Japanese naval forces from helping to take over the southern areas of New Guinea. Everything now depended on the land and air battles. It was here that the relocated NEI forces played a vital and decisive role.
Relocated NEI forces included six warships, nine submarines, over 1,000 troops and a number of aircraft, mostly transports. These resources were warmly welcomed and quickly integrated with Allied forces. But even more important in those dark days were the KPM company's merchant ships now located in Sydney.
Australia then had virtually no merchant navy.
The 28 KPM ships now based in Sydney became the major Allied supply line during the most critical, early stages of the New Guinea campaign. Indeed, they became a life line to Australian and U.S forces in New Guinea, delivering some 1 000 000 tons of supplies and 100 000 troops to the allied forces. Their contribution is hard to overstate. 19 of the 21 merchant ships allocated , to General MacArthur's command were Dutch. In all probability, without the KPM merchant fleet, the Allies could not have beaten the Japanese in New Guinea in 1942-43. Australia may have been invaded and the Allies would certainly have had a much harder and longer task to win the war. The urgent need saw unarmed KPM ships pressed into service almost immediately they arrived in Sydney. On 6 April 1942, only six weeks after leaving the NEI, the Cremer, van Heutz, Tasman and Maetsuycker ferried American troops, who had just arrived on the Queen Elizabeth, from Sydney to New Guinea.
With time KPM ships were armed, albeit rudimentarily. By December 1942 the "Lilliput" convoy system was devised to support allied forces. Dutch involvement in Lilliput convoys was high throughout, resulting in the worst losses of any allied force.
Experienced seamen were always in short supply. Ships' crews were often undermanned and routinely included Australian merchant and naval personnel and men from other allied countries - in one case the crew was almost entirely Filipino.

The Janssens.
The best known of the 28 Dutch Merchant ships that carried over 1,000,000 tons of supplies and 100,000 troops to New Guinea. The Janssens was a civilian supply and accommodation ship for Dutch submarines, winning fame for its daring operations.

Many ships became well known to allied fighting men. The Balikpapan served throughout the war, ferrying troops. Even better known was the Janssens, commanded throughout by the tall, thin, unflappable Captain G.N. Prass. She sailed under charter to the Dutch Navy as an accommodation and supply ship for Dutch submarines, but always with a civilian crew. Prass once took his ship, with a scratch crew and without a pilot, through a mine field in pitch darkness and heavy rain, only to be attacked by Japanese zeros next day, taking many casualties and sustaining considerable damage, but still making it to a safe port. For most of the war, the Janssens' only armament was two twin machine guns scrounged from a wrecked Catalina flying boat.
The naval ships and submarines based in the NEl joined with other ships of the Royal Netherlands Navy (RNN now RNLN) to operate in the Indian and Pacific Oceans. RNN submarines from Ceylon sank Japanese ships in the Indian Ocean, so helping defend Australia.. In early 1943 Dutch ships based in Fremantle helped escort the Australian 9th Division back from the Middle East. A Dutch submarine rescued thirteen crew from HMAS Yarra when she was sunk in March 1943. An early version of what became the US 7th Fleet was a multinational force of US, Australian and Dutch ships. Two thirds of the fleet's cruisers were Dutch, as were two destroyers, two submarines and a minesweeper.
Ships are essentially self-contained units, and surviving elements of the RNN sailed readily to Australia and quickly became an effective part of the Allied force. The NEI Army, the KNIL, lacked this mobility. A force of 90,000 - 40,000 regulars and 50,000 Reserves - it had no evacuation plan, and most KNIL members who survived the fighting were taken prisoner.
During 1942, 1074 KNIL members reached Australia from Java, New Guinea and other islands. By mid-1942 they had a Headquarters in Melbourne and a 745 strong force garrisoning those parts of the NEI not occupied by the Japanese. Despite some heroism, they were outnumbered everywhere and withdrawn. From then on, KNIL forces operated mainly with the Australian Army.

http://navyleag.customer.netspace.net.au/sd_05nei.htm

continued ...

Rising Sun*
06-02-2007, 11:47 PM
Continuation




In December 1941 Australian troops were sent to Timor, considered a stepping stone to Java. The island was half Dutch and half Portuguese. Portugal was neutral, but few expected the Japanese to respect that fact. Local forces were small - 500 Dutch and 500 Portuguese. On 26 January 1942 Japanese aircraft attacked Dili in Portuguese Timor and by late February Japanese troops had landed in force. Australian and Dutch troops fought a Guerrilla style war, assisted by some Timorese. Reinforcements were sent from Australia, but the Japanese strength continued to build.
In early December 1942, 59 KNIL reinforcements died when their ship was sunk near East Timor. Soon after, the decision was made to withdraw. When this occurred in late December 1942, East Timor guerrillas numbered some 400; including 192 Dutch, 64 Australians and 87 Portuguese.
KNIL companies fought with the 7th Division and the 26th Australian Brigade. In June 1944, the 1st Battalion - with a strength of509,was set up with people drawn from as far afield as Surinam and the Dutch Antilles. It included infantry, technical rehabilitation experts and a company of guides and interpreters who accompanied allied troops re-taking Dutch territories. . From May to July 1945, KNIL troops fought alongside Australians in Tarakan and Balikpapan.
The Netherlands Forces Intelligence Service collected information and conducted special operations (sabotage, setting up undergrounds etc.) in former Dutch territories, including the NEI. 250 people did 36 operations. About half were successful, but they paid a high price, with many captured and 42 killed by their captors.
By war's end the KNIL numbered some 5 000, including a Women's Corps of 120, and a Papua Battalion formed and based in New Guinea.
Those NEI air units who flew to Australia did so mostly in flying boats and transports, as these aircraft had the necessary range and could carry passengers. A flight of flying boats made it to Broome, but were attacked on the ground, destroying the aircraft and killing some seventy refugees. A variety of transport aircraft made it to Australia. NEI air personnel were mostly aircrew. Lacking groundcrews, they could not quickly become operational and most of the refugee transport aircraft were soon transferred to the US forces to fill urgent needs.
Netherlands East Indies B25 Mitchell bombers in Canberra 1942.
The NEI had ordered and paid for aircraft from the US and three squadrons were formed in Australia. No.18 Squadron formed in Canberra on 7 APril 1942 flew its B25 Mitchell bombers. The majority of the aircrew were Dutch, mostly from the NEI. Others came from Dutch training courses run in the USA and the rest were Australians. Most groundcrew were Australians from the RAAF. The B25s formed a composite squadron within the RAAF that flew over 900 operational sorties during WW2.
Australian War Memorial Photo PO 1818.010.

In June 1942 the squadron consisted of 242 Dutch and 206 Australians. The Squadron was commanded by Dutch officers but was under the operational command of the RAAF, being part of 79 Wing.
An early success was the sinking, on 5 June 1942, of a Japanese midget submarine 115 km east of Sydney by Captain Gus Winckel in a B25. Apparently the midget submarine, having just attacked Sydney, was lost and so unable to rendezvous with the mother ship when sighted on the surface.
Later in the war, No.18 Squadron moved to Bachelor in the Northern Territory, and flew missions to the north of Australia and back over the NEI.
From there they moved into the South West Pacific, operating from a number of fields, and eventually flying over 900 operational sorties.
No 19 Squadron flew the famous C47 Dakota throughout Australia and to points north.
A memorial erected in Cairns in 1989, following the recovery of remains of a crashed Dutch C47 in North Queensland, provides a permanent reminder of their contribution and sacrifice.
The other squadron was No 120, flying Kittyhawks in New Guinea. They operated from the Dutch base at Merauke (in the south of what today is called West Irian) providing air defence for Merauke and contributing generally to the allied effort in the region.
Throughout, they worked closely with the RAAF Kittyhawk squadrons, training with them and at times sharing maintenance and other support.
Several thousand Dutch refugees had escaped to Australia in 1942 and the Netherlands East Indies Government-in-Exile was based in Brisbane during 1944-45, the only foreign government established in Australia during the war.
Along with the Dutch Armed Service personnel, this brought the number of Dutch people in Australia during the war to well over 10 000. Some settled in Australia, helping to keep alive the memories of the substantial contribution their fellow countrymen made to the defence of their adopted country in its darkest hours.
The Netherlands Australia Memorial in Canberra consists of four panels commemorating the naval, army, air and merchant marine components, together with a large panel displaying the bronze lion from The Netherlands coat of arms. The Memorial was officially dedicated by His Excellency, the Governor General Mr. Bill Hayden on 7 December 1991.
The re-development of the Defence Complex at Russell required that the Netherlands Australia Memorial be removed in 1997. Because important elements of the Memorial could not be saved it was decided to design and construct a new Memorial.
The new Netherlands Australia Memorial was re-dedicated on 7 December 1999.
http://navyleag.customer.netspace.net.au/sd_05nei.htm

Rising Sun*
06-02-2007, 11:48 PM
Handy map of Dutch and other empires in the Pacific
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~mkinnea...r_East_WW2.pdf

Rising Sun*
06-02-2007, 11:52 PM
Some links on the Dutch in the Pacific War


Photo gallery on fall of Java http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/java_gallery.html

Dutch submarines http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/world_war_two/world_war_two.htm

NEI air force
http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/nei-af.htm

KNIL history
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/shoebox.msnw

Rising Sun*
06-02-2007, 11:54 PM
This denial of assets to the enemy took real guts. This was true Dutch courage.


After the destruction of the Tarakan oil-fields the Japanese were determined that the same thing would not happen when they invaded Balikpapan. Two Dutch officers, captured on Tarakan, were sent to Balikpapan with an ultimatum stating that if the oil installations are destroyed, all Dutch personnel in the area would be shot. The two emissaries were directed by the Dutch commanding officer, Lt. Col. C van den Hoogenband, to escape to the island of Java after which he gave the order for the oil-fields to be destroyed. Japanese troops of the 56th Regimental Group, under the command of Major-General Shizuo Sakaguchi, invaded the island on January 23, 1942 and outraged at what they saw, proceeded to round up every Dutch soldier and civilian they could find. Even eight patients from the local hospital were among the group of 78 victims marched to a beach near the old Klandasan Fortress. Two of the victims were then beheaded on the beach, the other 76 forced into the sea and in an execution similar to the Bangka massacre, all were shot one by one, their bodies left to drift with the tide. http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres_pacific.html

Rising Sun*
06-03-2007, 12:00 AM
Dutch Military - KNIL.

Koninklijk Nederlandsch-Indisch Leger, KNIL (Royal Dutch East Indies Army)
Originally the KNIL was part of the Dutch army. On March 10, 1830 the formation of the East Indies Army was approved by Royal Decree, consisting of 8 Mobile Corps, each with a battalion of Infantry, a company of Cavalry and four pieces mountain artillery, with a total strength of 600 European and 37 native officers and 12,905 non-commissioned officers and lower ranks. This grew to 20,000 in 1840, 29,800 in 1882 and 36,900 in 1930. Some of the action it was involved in: Padri War, (West-Sumatra) 1821-1845; Java War, July 1825-1830, Bali 1849; War of Aceh (Atjeh-oorlog) 1873-1901. After the pacification in the East Indies was completed, the "Defense Principles of 1927" formulated the task of the KNIL as 1. maintaining Dutch authority in the archipelago against unrest and resistance within its borders and guaranteeing order and calm; 2. performing of military duty as member of the community of people against other peoples. Depression and the fact that everything had to be imported made this a tough task. The newly formed Air Ministry of the KNIL however received 117 bombers form the US.
In May 1940 KNIL consisted of 1,345 regular officers and 35,583 non-commissioned officers and lower ranks. With reserve officers, local conscripts etc. the total could grow to 3,200 officers and and 73,000 non-commissioned officers and lower ranks. When The Dutch government declared war with Japan on December 8, 1941, KNIL was mobilized. On March 9, 1942 KNIL capitulated. Only a small units escaped to Australia.
On November 15, 1944, the First Battalion was formed and participated in some allied actions: Tarakan (May 1, 1945), Balikpan (July 1, 1945). Together with the Second Battalion, consisting of released POW's, they arrived on October 4, 1945 in the capital Batavia (Jakarta). http://www.vanderheijden.org/ng/military.html

The total NEI population in 1941 was around 68 million.

George Eller
06-03-2007, 07:53 AM
http://www.vanderheijden.org/ng/military.html

The total NEI population in 1941 was around 68 million.

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Thanks for the great links and info :)

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Here is more from some of my old posts.

KNIL (Royal Netherlands Indies Army)
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2936

Also some posts on this page:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2155&page=2

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Photo albums of Dutch KNIL re-enactors (color photos of uniforms and equipment):

http://www.livinghistory.nl/component/option,com_zoom/Itemid,32/catid,10/lang,en/

http://www.livinghistory.nl/component/option,com_zoom/Itemid,32/catid,9/lang,en/

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Rising Sun*
06-03-2007, 08:37 AM
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Thanks for the great links and info :)

Here is more from some of my old posts.

George

You're welcome.

Regarding your first link, I wasn't aware of your thread. I think I posted a link to the same site somewhere else as it's a site I'm familiar with.

It's good to see that someone else was directing attention to the too often overlooked Dutch effort long before I arrived on the scene.

I actually started these posts in the Dutch Army and Air Force 1939-40 thread http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2155&page=2 but decided that this was really a quite separate topic, so deleted them and put them here.

Cheers.

George Eller
06-03-2007, 09:03 AM
George

You're welcome.

Regarding your first link, I wasn't aware of your thread. I think I posted a link to the same site somewhere else as it's a site I'm familiar with.

It's good to see that someone else was directing attention to the too often overlooked Dutch effort long before I arrived on the scene.

I actually started these posts in the Dutch Army and Air Force 1939-40 thread http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2155&page=2 but decided that this was really a quite separate topic, so deleted them and put them here.

Cheers.
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Thanks again Rising Sun.

Well, my earlier thread on the KNIL was archived into the 2005 Archives. But, it's nice to see some more interest in the early Pacific campaigns in the Dutch East Indies. I've been interested in the NEI since childhood as my grandfather (mother's father) was an Onderluitenant in the KNIL.

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Rising Sun*
06-03-2007, 10:11 AM
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Thanks again Rising Sun.

Well, my earlier thread on the KNIL was archived into the 2005 Archives. But, it's nice to see some more interest in the early Pacific campaigns in the Dutch East Indies. I've been interested in the NEI since childhood as my grandfather (mother's father) was an Onderluitenant in the KNIL.

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George

My interest in the Dutch effort in the Pacific springs from a desire to see it get proper recognition.

The Dutch effort is acknowledged in serious histories, often only in passing, but as I mentioned in my first post it's usually ignored elsewhere as if the Dutch did nothing after the NEI fell. There usually isn’t much attention given to the Dutch fight on land in the NEI, either, compared with that given to Malaya and the Philippines which weren’t fought any better.

Compared with the propaganda and morale-boosting attention given to, say, Polish pilots in the RAF or the French Resistance while conveniently ignoring the Vichy French co-operation with the Germans and holding the French Navy from its Ally, Britain, and fighting its Ally, Britain in the Middle East, the Dutch got a lousy press. This is most unfair as, unlike the French, the Netherlands never surrendered; never co-operated with the Germans** or Japanese; never gave Japan access to its colonies like France did with Indo-China; did its best to deny its assets (especially considerable oil production facilities) to the Japanese; fought to the best of its ability as long as it had forces to do so; and after losing the NEI transferred some very valuable resources to its Allies, unlike France after surrendering to Germany, to carry on the fight, which the Netherlands did for the remainder of the war.

** There’s something I read years ago, the details of which I can’t remember, which was essentially that as a matter of principle over some wider Dutch conflict with the Nazis the Dutch medical profession went on strike against the Nazis, at considerable risk to each doctor The doctors won. I wish I could remember the full story, as it reflected great credit on the Dutch doctors.

I'm one eighth Dutch on my mother's side but that was never reflected in any connection with the Dutch community here, nor do I know anything about that part of my family history or where they came from (I‘m not in the least curious about family history unless someone hands it to me.). I'm also one eighth Portuguese on my father's side, and had a very, very slight childhood connection with the expatriate Portuguese community here who fled the Japanese in Timor. This heritage probably puts me in a very select group of Australians with a link with both the European colonial powers who were ejected by the Japanese to our north in 1942. Not that that has had any practical impact on me.

Dani
06-03-2007, 03:10 PM
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Well, my earlier thread on the KNIL was archived into the 2005 Archives.

Thread merged.

George Eller
06-03-2007, 06:58 PM
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Well, my earlier thread on the KNIL was archived into the 2005 Archives.

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Thread merged.
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Thanks Dani :)

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George Eller
06-03-2007, 07:22 PM
George

My interest in the Dutch effort in the Pacific springs from a desire to see it get proper recognition.

The Dutch effort is acknowledged in serious histories, often only in passing, but as I mentioned in my first post it's usually ignored elsewhere as if the Dutch did nothing after the NEI fell. There usually isn’t much attention given to the Dutch fight on land in the NEI, either, compared with that given to Malaya and the Philippines which weren’t fought any better.

Compared with the propaganda and morale-boosting attention given to, say, Polish pilots in the RAF or the French Resistance while conveniently ignoring the Vichy French co-operation with the Germans and holding the French Navy from its Ally, Britain, and fighting its Ally, Britain in the Middle East, the Dutch got a lousy press. This is most unfair as, unlike the French, the Netherlands never surrendered; never co-operated with the Germans** or Japanese; never gave Japan access to its colonies like France did with Indo-China; did its best to deny its assets (especially considerable oil production facilities) to the Japanese; fought to the best of its ability as long as it had forces to do so; and after losing the NEI transferred some very valuable resources to its Allies, unlike France after surrendering to Germany, to carry on the fight, which the Netherlands did for the remainder of the war.

** There’s something I read years ago, the details of which I can’t remember, which was essentially that as a matter of principle over some wider Dutch conflict with the Nazis the Dutch medical profession went on strike against the Nazis, at considerable risk to each doctor The doctors won. I wish I could remember the full story, as it reflected great credit on the Dutch doctors.

I'm one eighth Dutch on my mother's side but that was never reflected in any connection with the Dutch community here, nor do I know anything about that part of my family history or where they came from (I‘m not in the least curious about family history unless someone hands it to me.). I'm also one eighth Portuguese on my father's side, and had a very, very slight childhood connection with the expatriate Portuguese community here who fled the Japanese in Timor. This heritage probably puts me in a very select group of Australians with a link with both the European colonial powers who were ejected by the Japanese to our north in 1942. Not that that has had any practical impact on me.
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Thanks Rising Sun :)

I think that you're doing a great job of bringing attention to various Dutch contributions to the allied war effort. I find it very interesting.

IIRC, there were some 2,000 Dutch marines training in the United States when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. The Dutch East Indies fell before they could be sent back, so these Dutch Marines served with the United States Marines in the Pacific. I believe they served as tank crewmen with the Marines.

In Europe, Dutch troops served with the British Army after Holland fell to the Germans. They were equipped with British uniforms and equipment as well.

That's interesting about some of your ancestors being Dutch and Portugese. I think that my mother told me that many Dutch from the NEI moved to Australia after Indonesia gained it's independence following WWII. Mom's family moved to Holland after the war, about 1950.

My mother immigrated to the United States in 1957 during Eisenhower's administration. She met my American father in Elkhart, Indiana and they married in 1958.

Many from the former Dutch East Indies have since settled here in the United States.

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Rising Sun*
06-03-2007, 10:21 PM
George

The Dutch had a long association with Australia, and were probably the first Europeans to discover it. The other contender is Portugal. :D

Short summary of Dutch in Australia here.
http://www.radio.sbs.com.au/language.php?page=info&language=Dutch

Info on Dutch exploration of Australia
http://www.ammerlaan.demon.nl/quadcentenary.htm

The wreck of the Batavia and the bizarre story of subsequent rapes and murders and inter-island warfare among Dutch sailors and soldiers is reasonably well known in Australia, and probably Holland, but probably not elsewhere.
http://www.vocshipwrecks.nl/out_voyages2/batavia.html

George Eller
06-03-2007, 11:08 PM
George

The Dutch had a long association with Australia, and were probably the first Europeans to discover it. The other contender is Portugal. :D

Short summary of Dutch in Australia here.
http://www.radio.sbs.com.au/language.php?page=info&language=Dutch

Info on Dutch exploration of Australia
http://www.ammerlaan.demon.nl/quadcentenary.htm

The wreck of the Batavia and the bizarre story of subsequent rapes and murders and inter-island warfare among Dutch sailors and soldiers is reasonably well known in Australia, and probably Holland, but probably not elsewhere.
http://www.vocshipwrecks.nl/out_voyages2/batavia.html
-

Very interesting information RS :)

I had no idea that many Dutch emigrated to Australia (125,000 between 1947 and 1961).

The early Dutch exploration of Australia is also fascinating, curious too about the Dutch-Aborigines.

The last story about the Batavia - wow. What a group of monsters those mutineers were...the evil that men do. Thank God they were brought to justice.

-

Rising Sun*
06-04-2007, 09:03 AM
More on the Dutch merchant navy's significant contribution in the Pacific War, especially in the early days of resisting and turning Japan back in 1942.



Koninklijke Paketvaart Maatschappij

Royal Packet Navigation Co. of Netherlands East Indies (NEI)


There is virtually no record in Australia of the contribution that KPM ships, their officers and crews made to the Allied war effort during World War II, and in particular in the "Battle for Australia" in the years 1941/1945. The following narrative briefly sets this out. Some thirty KPM ships were involved in the New Guinea campaign in the South West Pacific area and these were superintended by KPM staff from the Sydney office after Batavia (Jakarta) was lost to the Japanese.

KPM commenced operations late in the 19th Century, advancing the increasing Dutch influence in the area. It became one of the largest shipping companies in the world, and then during World War II, half of what was left of its battered fleet after Japan over-ran Malaya and the Dutch East Indies, played a crucial part in slowing then repelling the Japanese advance on Australia during the critical days after Pearl Harbour. (The fleet's other half deployed to other oceans, the Company's five largest vessels contributing notably to the war effort as Allied troopships.) On 10 May 1940, the full might of the German armed forces was unleashed on Holland, stores and supplies of all kinds from home-based infrastructure for their fleet of 150 ships operating in the NEI ceased, logistical problems mounted and the operations formerly run by the Batavia Head Office now became more reliant on supply from Australia, carried in KPM and Burns Philp cargo ships.

On 20 February 1942 the Australian Parliament was summoned to discuss ways and means of satisfying the Dutch East Indies' request for help.

7 December 1941 - 7 March 1942.
The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, 7 December 1941, commenced a savage war in South East Asia and the Pacific. The real Japanese targets in Malaya and the Netherlands East Indies were the oil, tin, bauxite, rubber and many other commodities they badly needed. Singapore, cornerstone of the Allied defence whole of South East Asia, must be captured. So at the same time as they attacked Pearl Harbour, they also launched two other powerful forces southward - one through the Phillipines and New Guinea, the other through (the then) French Indo China.

On 10 December 1941, just three days after Pearl Harbour, the British battleships Repulse and Prince of Wales, were sunk off the east coast of Malaya by Japanese land based bombers with the loss of over 800 lives. The Allies had now suffered grievous naval losses at each end of Japan's campaign area and the vulnerability of the whole region was immense.

Sinking of Repulse and Prince Of Wales by Japanese torpedo bombers on 10 December 1941.

Dutch naval forces in NEI consisted of several cruisers, 3 or 4 destroyers, some submarines, and minesweepers as well as a number of aircraft.These forces were supplemented by the United States cruisers Houston and Marblehead, and some old US destroyers, the British Cruiser HMS Exeter and several destroyers as well as from Australia the Cruiser HMAS Perth, nine corvettes and the Armed Merchant Cruiser HMAS Kanimbla. KPM's situation, up to this time precarious, now became quite desperate.

As the Japanese Naval Forces closed in for the kill, the KPM merchant shipping losses started. Over the months they mounted. January 1942 sinkings were:-

Van Rees and Van Riebeeck 8/1/42.
Camphuys and Benkoelen 9/1/42.
Sloet van de Beele 17/1/42.
Van Imhoff 19/1/42.
Togian 20/1/42.
Pynacker Hordyck and Van Overstaten 22/1/42.
Lemtang 23/1/42.
Buyskes 26/1/42.
Boelongan and Elout 28/1/42.
During February 1942 KPM lost another nine ships, including two captured at sea, Op Ten Noort (converted to a hospital ship) and Tobelo. . The other seven were sunk and included Rooseboom, crammed with over 500 civilians and servicemen, only six of whom survived. This was the greatest Dutch ship loss of life anywhere in the world during WWII and is mentioned again below. February saw the Allied and Japanese naval forces engaged in the Battles of the Java Sea and Bantam Bay, with the losses including Dutch naval vessels and HMAS Perth .

On 1 March Toradja, Tomohon, Siaoe, Parigi and Batak were sunk, while Le Maire disappeared without trace en route from Tjilatjap to Australia. Over the next four days Minjak, Siberoet and Merkus were sunk. Fourteen ships were scuttled in Soerabaya and Tjilatjap, two were captured at sea and one totally destroyed in Tjilatjap. There were other losses at sea and ships destroyed in a number of ports to deny them to the invaders, and by the time the Japanese land forces reached Tjilatjap on 7 March, in all a staggering seventy-nine ships, over half the KPM fleet, had been lost.

The Dutch and Netherlands East Indies Merchant Navy and Defence Forces, with some elements of their allies, had held the Japanese from occupation of their territory for three weeks after Singapore had fallen on 15 February. The cost and the bravery were beyond count, and who can measure the benefits derived by Australia and its allies in precious preparation time for the turning battles to come, on the Kokoda Trail, at Milne Bay,and in the Coral and Bismarck Seas ?

The most tragic KPM loss in this period (and mentioned earlier) in terms of lives lost was that of the Rooseboom, sunk on 28 February. Having left Emmahaven on the 27th with over 500 passengers and crew she was torpedoed in the Indian Ocean by the Japanese submarine I-59 under Lt Yoshimatsu, the force of the explosion destroying all but one of the lifeboats and the ship sinking within minutes. There were some eighty survivors in and around that lifeboat. One by one they succumbed to injuries, sunstroke or exhaustion, while the lifeboat drifted towards the west coast of Sumatra. Three and a half weeks later, the lifeboat was washed up on Sipora Island, containing four living skeletons - a Scottish regiment's Sergeant Gibson and three others - to recount the story. Two weeks earlier, two others had been picked up from other wreckage.

7 March 1942 - 15 August 1945.
Chaotic conditions meant that no Dutch crew and passenger lists or manifests survived to detail evacuees, casualties or lost lives, thus little or no record remains. By April, some thirty vessels had escaped to Australian ports, but such was the Japanese threat to Australia, that some of these KPM ships took up their war time task once again almost as soon as they reached Sydney, unarmed as they were. On 6 April, barely a month after the fall of Tjilatjap, Cremer, Van Heutsz, Tasman and Maetsuycker in convoy with other allied merchant ships left Sydney for New Guinea, with Australian and American troops aboard.

During all this wartime conflict the Dutch KPM ships operating in all areas continued to fly the Dutch National Flag and remained manned by KPM Officers and Engineers.The tragedy for the Dutch Officers was having to leave their wives and families behind, thousands of these becoming prisoners of war, with one in six dying in Japanese captivity. Many of the KPM Javanese crewmen in Sydney at this time and unable to return home, refused duty, accepting the wartime penalty of internment. Replacement crews came from Australian merchant seamen and naval ratings who sailed in Dutch ships thus under a foreign flag.

Progressively armed, the KPM ships went into action, many spear-heading the forward movement of troops and supplies to such places as Oro Bay (where, in Operation "Lilliput", the KPM ships predominated), Buna, Finschhafen and Aitape. They also carried out special missions to Noumea, Darwin, Exmouth Gulf, and Merauke and Hollandia in Dutch New Guinea.

As the Japanese forces moved south towards Port Moresby, the allied Convoy ZK8, comprising KPM ships Bantam, Bontekoe, Van Heemskerk and Van Heutsz, with other Australian and foreign vessels left Australian ports late in May for Port Moresby. They carried 4,735 troops of the Australian 14th Brigade and their equipment, the first Australian units to meet the Japanese on the Kokoda Trail.

The first convoy carrying defence reinforcements into Milne Bay on 25 June included KPM's Karsik and Bontekoe. In July, Tasman (later converted to a hospital ship) transported portions of the Australian 7th Brigade to Milne Bay, the brigade consisting of the 9th, 25th, and 61st Militia Battalions, largely raised in the Darling Downs of Queensland.

This emphasis on strengthening the Milne Bay turning point was rewarded: on 25 August 1942, two Japanese cruisers, three destroyers and a transport carryng 1200 troops with tanks entered Milne Bay to effect a landing. They forced Tasman and HMAS Arunta to seek shelter in another part of the bay. Twelve days later these Japanese forces had been defeated, and on 7 and 8 September they withdrew, having suffered the first repulse of a Japanese invading force in the Pacific War. http://merchant-navy-ships.com/index.php

continued

Rising Sun*
06-04-2007, 09:04 AM
Continuation


This narrative does not attempt to cover that portion of the KPM fleet based in Bombay following the evacuation from the NEI, however some detail of just one port circumstance shows their hazards. On 14 April 1944 the British ship Fort Stikine blew apart while discharging ammunition and explosives in Bombay (now Mumbai), the blast causing massive damage. Among the ship casualties were KPM's Generaal van der Heyden, Generaal van Sweieten and Tinombo, lying in the same dock and blown to pieces. One other 6,000 ton vessel was blown out of the water and landed on what was left of the wharf, adjoining suburbs were flattened by the blast and the rubble consumed by a sea of fire. The Port of Bombay harbour installations and suburbs were demolished, the loss of life and shipping tonnage to the allies was immense.

KPM's vessels were ubiquitous in the Pacific campaign. Delivering almost a million tons and 100,000 troops during those years, their names became known usually only to those service personnel manning or served by them. The March 1942 - August 1945 period cost KPM's Sydney-based shipping five vessels: s. Jacob 2839 gross tons lost 8 March 1943, Bantam 3322 gross tons lost 28 March 1943, van Heemskerk 2996 gross tons lost 14 April 1943, Cremer 4608 gross tons lost 5 September 1943 and Sibigo 1594 gross tons lost 16 March 1945, as well as several others seriously damaged.

This website is indebted to Mr. Lieuwe Pronk, of the KPM shore based staff Sydney 1942/43/44/45, for his co-operation, and permission granted to use extracts and background from his book, KPM 1888 - 1967 A Most Remarkable Shipping Company.

Having been in convoy and involved with the KPM Co. during the New Guinea Campaign 1939/45 with Burns, Philp & Co. as a seagoing Deck Officer, I can attest to the factual information written by the Author Lieuwe Pronk. KPM with ships of the Australian, United States, British, and other Nations that were involved and manned by Merchant Mariners from the many countries, can only be designated as the Fourth Ally in the "Battle For Australia".
Ron (Steve) Wylie.

..................................

POSTSCRIPT: Another Dutch vessel, while not belonging to KPM, became well-known in the Asia/Pacific wartime environment. It was the "Oranje", which had been built in 1939 for the Nederland Line. Of 20,565 gross tons, she was laid up in Soerabaya after the Netherlands had been invaded by Germany. In February 1941 the Dutch Government offered the ship to Australia as a Hospital Ship and agreed to pay the cost of modification. After conversion in Sydney, she commenced her first hospital ship voyage in August 1941 and during the next five years made 40 voyages before resuming the East Indies passenger service in July 1946.
http://merchant-navy-ships.com/index.php

Rising Sun*
06-04-2007, 09:06 AM
-
The last story about the Batavia - wow. What a group of monsters those mutineers were...the evil that men do. Thank God they were brought to justice.

-

Yeah, but bloody brutal justice!

Rising Sun*
06-04-2007, 09:20 AM
The first convoy carrying defence reinforcements into Milne Bay on 25 June included KPM's Karsik and Bontekoe. In July, Tasman (later converted to a hospital ship) transported portions of the Australian 7th Brigade to Milne Bay, the brigade consisting of the 9th, 25th, and 61st Militia Battalions, largely raised in the Darling Downs of Queensland.

This emphasis on strengthening the Milne Bay turning point was rewarded: on 25 August 1942, two Japanese cruisers, three destroyers and a transport carryng 1200 troops with tanks entered Milne Bay to effect a landing. They forced Tasman and HMAS Arunta to seek shelter in another part of the bay. Twelve days later these Japanese forces had been defeated, and on 7 and 8 September they withdrew, having suffered the first repulse of a Japanese invading force in the Pacific War.

Milne Bay was the first time that a Japanese landing force had been defeated and the remnants forced to withdraw.

Gen Slim in Burma held it out as the first great morale booster showing that the supposedly unbeatable Japanese could be beaten. As steadily they were from then on, with many reverses and at huge cost.

Popular, and often official and other, war histories tend to focus on the battles and fighting campaigns rather than the logisitics which in many cases decide battles and campaigns. Without taking anythng away from the Australian troops involved in the vicious fighting at Milne Bay, where the Japanese SNLF engaged in their common pointless brutality such as wiring Australian prisoners to trees and slowly bayoneting them to death, if the Australians hadn't been transported there mainly by the Dutch ships and hadn't had their supplies transported there largely by the Dutch ships, they wouldn't have won.

Rising Sun*
06-04-2007, 09:38 AM
Australian National Archives records on NEI, near end of page at

http://www.naa.gov.au/publications/fact_sheets/FS156.html

Rising Sun*
06-04-2007, 09:43 AM
ABDA in action, and its problems.

http://ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-C-EIndies/index.html

Rising Sun*
06-04-2007, 09:50 AM
The Fourth Ally.

The Netherlands in the Pacific in a reasonable perspective.

http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/books/books_review_the_fourth_ally.htm

Rising Sun*
06-04-2007, 09:55 AM
I can't find my source (probably a library book) but I recall reading something by a woman / women on the Australian home front in Queensland about very attractive Javanese officers knocking the socks off Aussie sheilas there.

I had assumed to that point that all KNIL officers were Dutch.

Anyone know?

George Eller
06-04-2007, 01:50 PM
-

Great info as usual RS :D

Very informative.





-
The last story about the Batavia - wow. What a group of monsters those mutineers were...the evil that men do. Thank God they were brought to justice.
-

Yeah, but bloody brutal justice!
-

Indeed it was brutal. Some received quite gruesome sentences, although it's hard to have sympathy for the perpetrators of such heinous crimes.

http://www.vocshipwrecks.nl/out_voyages2/fotoos/batavia_spinning_wheel.jpg
http://www.vocshipwrecks.nl/out_voyages2/fotoos/batavia_hands_off.jpg

However, I think the sentences carried out were representative of the times in which they lived.

Beheading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beheading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Walter_Raleigh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_I_of_England_and_Scotland

Dismemberment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dismemberment

Hanged, Drawn and Quartered
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged%2C_drawn_and_quartered

Execution by Burning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_burning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burned_heretics

Breaking wheel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_wheel

Witchhunt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchhunt

Execution Methods
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Execution_methods

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_methods_of_capital_punishment

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Dutch Knight
06-06-2007, 09:46 PM
This is a photo of my grandfather just befor the war or during not sure but it was taken in Malang Indonesia.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h282/dutchknight/OpaOnMotorcycle.jpg


This is a photo of my grandfather after he retiered from th duch army He was in the KNIL during the second world war. He spent some time as a pow

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h282/dutchknight/OpaKnil.jpg

George Eller
06-07-2007, 08:43 AM
-

Thanks for the pics Dutch Knight :)

Looks like your grandfather had several decorations.

My mom's family was living in Jokjakarta in southeastern Java when war broke out with Japan. Her father was an Onderluitenant in the KNIL. He was serving at GHQ in Bandung (west-central Java) when the Japanese invaded. He died at the Tjimahi POW camp on 24 Jan 1945 and is buried in the cemetery there (central Java).

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7939/opa02ce4.jpg
My grandfather's picture from his military ID taken prior to the war.

Thanks again for your post.

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Dutch Knight
06-08-2007, 01:28 AM
My pleasure, My grand father was an engineer and held th rank of Sargent Major He was posted in malang Indonesia. he was also present when indonesia gained independence from Holland. Sadly he was also present when the KNIL Was disbanded. I also have a copy of a letter that my grand father had writen to the Queen of Holland asking permission to marry a native girl who later became my grand mother ( i will post this at a later date)

below is my grand fathers Identity card

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h282/dutchknight/Scan0002.jpg

George Eller
06-08-2007, 10:21 PM
My pleasure, My grand father was an engineer and held th rank of Sargent Major He was posted in malang Indonesia. he was also present when indonesia gained independence from Holland. Sadly he was also present when the KNIL Was disbanded. I also have a copy of a letter that my grand father had writen to the Queen of Holland asking permission to marry a native girl who later became my grand mother ( i will post this at a later date)

below is my grand fathers Identity card

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h282/dutchknight/Scan0002.jpg

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That's interesting Dutch Knight :)

Thanks also for the photo. I look forward to seeing your grandfather's letter to the Dutch Queen.

Like your grandfather, my grandfather also married a native girl. My grandmother was from Java.

I have attached some links on various topics relating to the East Indies from before, during and after WWII that may be interesting to you.

-

The Map Room
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/000_admin/006_maps.html

Java map - 1935 - this map can be expanded.
Malang is in Southeastern Java - south of the port of Surabaya (Soerabaja)
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/maps/java.jpg

Environs of Tosari and Malang map - 1920 (southeast Java)
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/maps/Malang%201920.gif

Tjimahi Camp - central Java.
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/maps/tjimahi.jpg

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Battle of Java (1942)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Java_%281942%29

http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/java.html

http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/oob.html

http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/java_gallery.html

http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/

-

Interviews with veterans of the Dutch East Indies Campaign
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/veterans.html

Uniforms of Dutch East Indies Campaign
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/uniforms.html

KNIL Weapons - Rifle pics
http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/strategion/strategion/i004817.html

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KNIL Armor - Dutch East Indies Campaign
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/KNIL_armour.html

Japanese Armor - Dutch East Indies Campaign
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/japarmunits.html

-

KNIL History
Engineers - Signals

http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/engineerssignals.msnw

http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/engineerssignals.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=185

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THE DUTCH WAR VETERAN ORACLE

http://members.tripod.com/~korremans/home.htm

Sergeant C.N.W. Korremans of the KNIL served in the last Dutch colonies like Dutch East Indies and New-Guinea (at this moment Indonesia and Irian-Jaya) and was specialized for the occupation as bomb expert and destruction specialist. He was one of the last soldiers of this brigade (Tiger-Brigade) who returned to his country in 1952.

He was incorporated in the famous "Tiger-Brigade" which fought against the troops of the former freedom fighter (later the first president of Indonesia) Ir. Sukarno. The "Tiger-Brigade" was situated in the center of the Republic of Indonesia, the headquarters of this brigade was based in Semarang the capital of the Middle-Java region.

The 5e Engineering Field-company (to which he belonged for the first 1 1/2 year) was one of the most famous engineering companies, which was decorated by General Spoor, the supreme commander of all Dutch troops in the Far East.

-

Tiger Brigade

http://members.lycos.co.uk/tigerbrigade/mainindexenglish.htm

http://members.lycos.co.uk/tigerbrigade/support.htm

Engineers

http://members.lycos.co.uk/tigerbrigade/5e_genie_veldcompagnie.htm

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JAAP (JAKE) DRUPSTEEN IX Battalion
DUTCH EAST INDIES (Indonesia) 1946-1949

Pioneer (Engineer) platoon

Partial quote:
(Note: Genie is a Dutch word without an equivalent English translation so in explanation Genie companies were normally attached to an infantry battalion to provide for support in areas such as bridges, roads, construction etc. Many of the people at HQ were part of KNIL, the Dutch/East Indian Army. The corps Genie just celebrated it's 250 year, yes 250th, anniversary.)

http://extrapages.tripod.com/Drupsteen.html

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jabu
11-15-2007, 07:09 PM
Hi,

I write article about Mk.1 „Boys” kal. 13,97mm AT Rifles captured by IJA (especially in Singapore where Japanese captured 248 pieces AT rifles this type), and later used by in 1945 by few IJA units.
For example: Japanese 5th Guards Infantry Regiment on Sumatra formed at 1945 AT Rifle unit using captured Boys AT Rifle.
Probably 451st Independent Infantry Battalion in Burma also had few AT rifles this type at 1945.

But, I wanted to ask about something different.

During I writing of article I interested also anothers types AT rifles captured by Japanese.
I know, KNIL he possessed some pieces Solothurn S18-1000 AT Rifle.
Maybe anyone knows: what amount this type weapon had KNIL durning Japanese invasion?

I will be grateful for help. I apologize for my poor English,

Best regards,
jabu

George Eller
11-15-2007, 08:50 PM
Hi,

I write article about Mk.1 „Boys” kal. 13,97mm AT Rifles captured by IJA (especially in Singapore where Japanese captured 248 pieces AT rifles this type), and later used by in 1945 by few IJA units.
For example: Japanese 5th Guards Infantry Regiment on Sumatra formed at 1945 AT Rifle unit using captured Boys AT Rifle.
Probably 451st Independent Infantry Battalion in Burma also had few AT rifles this type at 1945.

But, I wanted to ask about something different.

During I writing of article I interested also anothers types AT rifles captured by Japanese.
I know, KNIL he possessed some pieces Solothurn S18-1000 AT Rifle.
Maybe anyone knows: what amount this type weapon had KNIL durning Japanese invasion?

I will be grateful for help. I apologize for my poor English,

Best regards,
jabu
-

Hi Jabu,

Welcome to the forum :)

I have some information for you from the message board (forum) at the Netherlands East Indies 1941-1942 website.

Netherlands East Indies 1941-1942 website
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/
Weapons and Equipment - Dutch East Indies Campaign
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/weapons.html

-

Pacific War 1941-1945 message boards (Netherlands East Indies 1941-1942 website)
Archive 52
http://www.f16.parsimony.net/cgi-bin/archiv-view.cgi?Nummer=27947&Seite=52

-

How was the Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle used tactically and by who?
Written by George Smithson at 26 Sep 2004 07:04:48:
http://www.f16.parsimony.net/cgi-bin/archiv-view.cgi?Nummer=27947&Seite=52


On the Netherlands East Indies site it says the KNIL Army had this AT rifle:

Tankbuks M.38, Dutch East Indies Army

I have been told elswhere and here in prior posts its the Swiss Solothurn S-18/1000 and that only 72 had arrived in the NEI with 7500 pieces of ammunition.

In one battle account Porong, vs Abe's command.

On the evening of 6 March the Abe Unit under the command of
Major-General Koichi Abe attacked Porong by night assault, which was defended by the following Dutch defence units:
- 8th KNIL Infantry Battalion (Captain J.W.R.H. Doorman)
- 13th KNIL Infantry Battalion (Major G.J. van der Meulen)
- a half section of the 3rd Cavalry Unit (Lieutenant W.F. Rab)
- parts of the AA and 6th AT Unit (Captain W.Ch. Lapré)

I saw this from the NEI website acccount:
"When the Japanese forces (including tanks) attacked Porong in the
evening on that day, the KNIL troops managed to destroy the railway
bridge, yet the other bridge was captured intact by the Japanese
troops, since most KNIL native troops fled or better to say deserted. Most
resistance was offered by a 47mm AT gun under the command of KNIL
Sergeant H.F. Pasch and a AT rifle, which managed to destroy three
Japanese tanks."

I see it was used (presumably) in conjunction with a 47mm AT gun which from the KNIL order of battle I have seen on Dr Leos site, would be found only in each of the the KNIL Regiment's Heavy Motorized (AA and AT) Unit.

Were these AT rifles assigned to this unit and if so how?

Or if not where?


Responses:

Re: How was the Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle used tactically and by who?
Written by Stellan Bojerud at 26 Sep 2004 11:42:26:
http://www.f16.parsimony.net/forum27947/messages/5308.htm

The plans were: Two to each Rifle Coy, but there were not AT-rifles enough.

They were instead issued with two to each MG Coy of the Inf Bns. A few were also issued to Balikpapan (and perhaps Tarakan - I have no evidence of that so far).

In the MG Coys the AT rifles were in one group under Coy HQ command.

Stellan
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history


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Re: How was the Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle used tactically and by who?
Written by George Smithson at 29 Sep 2004 04:00:42:
http://www.f16.parsimony.net/forum27947/messages/5322.htm


Thanks for this info and the link. This wasnt covered anywhere else I know of.

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List of Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle equipped Battalions
Written by George Smithson at 29 Sep 2004 20:24:17:
http://www.f16.parsimony.net/forum27947/messages/5324.htm

Here is a list of the KNIL Battalions I could find including Garisson Battalions. It looks like there 25 Battalions at most they would have used 50 ATR and had 23 more AT Rifles available unless they put them out to the Landstorm Battalions too.

Were they perhaps given to the 6 Cavalry units or the Mobiele Eenheid?

1st Divison -Java
- X. KNIL Infantry Battalion *
- XI. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
- XII. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
- XIV. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
- IV. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
- IX. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
- XV. KNIL Infantry Battalion*

2nd Divison -Java
- I. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
- II. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
- V. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
- NEI Infantry Regiment "Zuid" Infantry Battalion at Mangkoe Negoro*?
- NEI Infantry Regiment "Zuid" MG Company *?
- KNIL Infantry Battalion at Tjilatjap*

3rd 1st Divison -Java
- III. KNIL Infantry Battalion *
- VIII. KNIL Infantry Battalion less 3rd Co. (to Timor) *
- XIII. KNIL Infantry Battalion less 1 MG Platoon (to Timor)*

Sumatra
Fort de Kock
• West Sumatra and Tapanoeli (1st Garrison) Battalion *?

Sibolga
• West Sumatra and Tapanoeli (2nd Garrison) Battalion in Sibolga*?

Medan.
North Sumatra (1st Garrison) Battalion *?

Pematangsiantar
North Sumatra (22nd Garrison) Battalion *?

Palembang
South Sumatra Garrison Battalion *?

Borneo

Tarakan
Tarakan Garrison Battalion (7th KNIL Infantry Battalion), including one MG Company *?

Balikpapan
6th KNIL Infantry Battalion *

Bandjermasin
South and East Borneo KNIL Infantry Battalion*?

Ambon
KNIL Molukken Garrison Battalion*?

* 2 ATR with each MG Company of a KNIL Battalion.

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Re: List of Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle equipped Battalions
Written by Stellan Bojeruds at 30 Sep 2004 08:35:23:
http://www.f16.parsimony.net/forum27947/messages/5325.htm

You forgot W.Borneo Bn (Pontianak) and Celebes Bn (Makassar/Manado).

Detachement Samarinda (Borneo) had at least 1 AT rifle. Ambon Bn had at least 2.

Stellan

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Re: List of Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle equipped Battalions
Written by George Smithson at 30 Sep 2004 11:08:46:
http://www.f16.parsimony.net/forum27947/messages/5326.htm



>You forgot W.Borneo Bn (Pontianak)

Yes.

and Celebes Bn (Makassar/Manado).

Now that did not not appear as such in the oob info I have just two KNIL companies one at Manado and one at Makassar. Did these have any ATRs?


>Detachement Samarinda (Borneo) had at least 1 AT rifle. Ambon Bn had at least 2.

Good to know. Thanks.

>Stellan

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Also there may have been Boys AT rifles with the Australian/British/American "Blackforce" battlegroup on Java.

Hope this information helps. :)


All the Best,

George


PS: Jabu, also you need to change your avatar to an image related to WWII.

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jabu
11-15-2007, 09:48 PM
Hi George,
I very thank you for help. I am very grateful for this, that you wrote so a lot of.

I was friends long ago from John Verbeck. He helped me a bit when I asked about KNIL, or guerrillas' Indonesian. But, this was 7-8 years ago…

I lost with him contact now. I have to finish. There in Poland is fourth morning now. In four hours I go to work.

I will write tomorrow yet.

>you need to change your avatar to an image related to WWII.

Yes. But, I write very a lot of and I publish in my country... About Japanese Army between 1876-1945. And also about War in Chechnya.
A lot of coffee, little dream...
I am very similar now to my avatar. This avatar shows my character...
I thank you for help once again.

Best regards from Warsaw,
jabu

George Eller
11-15-2007, 10:30 PM
Hi George,
I very thank you for help. I am very grateful for this, that you wrote so a lot of.

I was friends long ago from John Verbeck. He helped me a bit when I asked about KNIL, or guerrillas' Indonesian. But, this was 7-8 years ago…

I lost with him contact now. I have to finish. There in Poland is fourth morning now. In four hours I go to work.

I will write tomorrow yet.

>you need to change your avatar to an image related to WWII.

Yes. But, I write very a lot of and I publish in my country... About Japanese Army between 1876-1945. And also about War in Chechnya.
A lot of coffee, little dream...
I am very similar now to my avatar. This avatar shows my character...
I thank you for help once again.

Best regards from Warsaw,
jabu
-

You're welcome Jabu,

Hope you are rested and refreshed.

Please read the PM (private message) that I sent you.


Best Regards,

George

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jabu
11-16-2007, 05:08 AM
Hi George,

-
Also there may have been Boys AT rifles with the Australian/British/American "Blackforce" battlegroup on Java.-
Maybe you know the vacancy of organization rifle AT sections at Australian/British/American "Blackforce" battlegroup?

In 1st Raider Battalion (on day February 12, 1942) had together 10 x Boys AT Rifle (Canadian production) in five AT Sections:
One AT section (7 x enlisted and 2 x AT rifle) had Battalion’s Weapons Company, and also one AT secion had each Rifle Company (Battalion had 4 companies).

Durning Makin Raid Carlson’s raiders used by probably two AT rifles Boys.
Japanese reported finding after the raid: 5 x rubber boats, 15 x BAR, 3 x M1903 rifles, 24 M1 Garand automatic rifles and approx. 350 hand grenades.
About AT rifles they do not remember…

2nd Raider Battalion durning Guadalcanal Campaing had 15 x Boys AT rifles.
3d and 4th Raider Battalions had (on day Sepember 24, 1942) had probably, each 6 x AT rifles (2 x rifles in Weapons Company, and 4 x rifles in HQ Company).

At British Army durning Malayan and Burma campaigns had:
36 x AT rifles per one infantry battalion and 12 x AT rifles per company.

But, I dont know how many Boys AT Rifle had units from "Blackforce" battlegroup.
Are any facts well-known in this subject?

Best regards,
jabu

Dani
11-16-2007, 05:21 AM
you need to change your avatar to an image related to WWII.

Yes. But, I write very a lot of and I publish in my country... About Japanese Army between 1876-1945. And also about War in Chechnya.
A lot of coffee, little dream...
I am very similar now to my avatar. This avatar shows my character...


jabu, ww2 related avatar is one of the rules of this board, so if you already drink your coffe, please change it.
Dziekuje!

jabu
11-16-2007, 06:42 AM
Hi Dani,
to get to know me you pleasantly.
It puts my answer what I sended for George (private message) several hours this:
Hi George,
I understand. Agreement. But, give me a bit time I - will choose some interesting avatar.
But, this for me very heavy and difficult decision. I functioned many years on many forums from this only one avatar...:(:cry::cry
All the Best,
Jabu

jabu,Dziekuje!
I mulţumesc de asemenea. I verde de la Polonia!;)
jabu

Dani
11-16-2007, 06:51 AM
Well jabu, in your case Gen. Sandworm and Firefly will have a final word!

Cheers!:D

jabu
11-16-2007, 07:03 AM
Thank you,
best regards,
jabu :D

P.S. I am already Private First Class - nicely!:)

Firefly
11-16-2007, 08:28 AM
Hi Dani,
to get to know me you pleasantly.
It puts my answer what I sended for George (private message) several hours this:
Hi George,
I understand. Agreement. But, give me a bit time I - will choose some interesting avatar.
But, this for me very heavy and difficult decision. I functioned many years on many forums from this only one avatar...:(:cry::cry
All the Best,
Jabu

I mulţumesc de asemenea. I verde de la Polonia!;)
jabu

Hello Jabu and welcome to our site. In the spirit of the site we do ask that everyone that wishes an Avatar either choose one from our collection or use their own so long as it is WW2 related.

Of course you can have some time to choose one, that is no problem, but I hope you will find one in the next few days.

Of course there is no need to have one at all.

Thnak you for your understanding on this.

F-F

jabu
11-16-2007, 08:51 AM
Hi Firefly!

that is no problem, but I hope you will find one in the next few days.F-F
O'K. I will seek some interesting Avatar. And I will make exchange. Give me several days.

Regards,
jabu

P.S. my old avatar is also avatar to WWII. It is "Warlike Chicken", image - mascot Polish unit from my family city: 41st Field Kitchen, from 22nd Supply Company from Plock City - ;)

George Eller
11-16-2007, 09:28 AM
Hi Dani,
to get to know me you pleasantly.
It puts my answer what I sended for George (private message) several hours this:
Hi George,
I understand. Agreement. But, give me a bit time I - will choose some interesting avatar.
But, this for me very heavy and difficult decision. I functioned many years on many forums from this only one avatar...:(:cry::cry
All the Best,
Jabu

I mulţumesc de asemenea. I verde de la Polonia!;)
jabu
-

Thanks and good luck in finding another avatar.

As I mentioned to you in my Private Message last night, you may incorporate the "fuzzy slippers" character into your signature that appears at the bottom of posts, but your avatar must be WWII related.


Best Regards,

George

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jabu
11-16-2007, 09:40 AM
-Ay ser!:D
regards,
jabu

jabu
12-10-2007, 06:01 PM
Hi,
I have one picture the Solothurn S-18/1000 AT Rifle used by KNIL soldiers. Unfortunately poor quality. It will interest someone maybe...

regards,
jabu

George Eller
12-11-2007, 02:20 AM
Hi,
I have one picture the Solothurn S-18/1000 AT Rifle used by KNIL soldiers. Unfortunately poor quality. It will interest someone maybe...

regards,
jabu

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2726/solothurnmt5.jpg


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Thanks for the pic Jabu :)

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An image of a native soldier of the KNIL with Solothurn ATR - sent to me several years ago by Tom Womack who is an author and contributor to The Netherlands East Indies 1941-1942 website and forum.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7904/solothurn1vu9.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/
http://www.f16.parsimony.net/forum27947/

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Image of an M.38 tankbuks from The Netherlands East Indies 1941-1942 website - weapons page.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4450/m38tankbuksbb2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/weapons.html
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/M38_tankbuks.jpg

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jabu
12-11-2007, 06:00 PM
Hi George,

nice photos,

regards,
Jabu

jabu
12-16-2007, 04:49 PM
Hi,
some interesting, but poor photos KNIL soldiers.
From Japanese book by Masao Fujita Mouhitotsu no Rikugun Heikishi. Kojinsha 2004. Tokio.

1. Soldiers KNIL which they passed already on Japanese side.

2. Officer KNIL examined by Japanese officer.

Regards,
jabu

George Eller
12-17-2007, 08:57 PM
-

Thanks for sharing those pics Jabu. I've never seen those before. :)

You may have seen the following already, but you may find some interesting pics on these websites:

Welcome to KNIL-history!
Koninklijk Nederlandsch Indisch Leger
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history

Following photos from website: Het KNIL - Een Historisch Document,
Hendrik Engelen (1914 - 1984) Soldaat in het Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger
http://home.wish.net/~mmann/fotos3.htm
http://home.wish.net/~mmann/fotos1.htm
http://home.wish.net/~mmann/fotos2.htm
http://home.wish.net/~mmann/fotos4.htm
http://home.wish.net/~mmann/fotos5.htm
http://home.wish.net/~mmann/fotos6.htm


Photo Gallery
The Fall of Java Island, March 1942
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/java_gallery.html

The Dutch Uniforms, 1941-1942 - (East Indies)
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/Dutch_Uniforms.html

Uniforms - Dutch East Indies campaign
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/uniforms.html

Photo albums of Dutch KNIL re-enactors (color photos of uniforms and equipment):

http://www.livinghistory.nl/component/option,com_zoom/Itemid,32/catid,10/lang,en/

http://www.livinghistory.nl/component/option,com_zoom/Itemid,32/catid,9/lang,en/

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jabu
12-29-2007, 07:24 AM
Thanks George,

Shiawase ippaino 2008 nenni narimasuyoni! ;)

Season’s greetings and best wishes for the New Year 2008! :cool:


Regards,
Jabu

George Eller
12-29-2007, 07:54 PM
Thanks George,

Shiawase ippaino 2008 nenni narimasuyoni! ;)

Season’s greetings and best wishes for the New Year 2008! :cool:


Regards,
Jabu
-

Thank you Jabu :D

And Happy New Year to you ;)

Hope you have a great year ahead in 2008 :D


All the Best,

George

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jabu
01-03-2008, 08:22 PM
Dear George,

I can ask about help?
I look for on information about Bofors 75mm Mountain Howitzer used by KNIL.
I know: this type gun captured by IJA from Kuomintang and KNIL.
I know, this type howitzer market by Japanese: Type Bo, and captured by during campaign at Nederland East Indies. Some howitzers used by at Guadalcanal campaign (probably 11 pieces from Japanese 20th Independent Mountain Gun Battalion and 2nd Field Artillery Regiment). IJA captured by probably at least two versions Bofors 75mm Mountain Howitzer.

Dear George, maybe you know how many howitzers this type had KNIL at 1941?
KNIL used by two type this gun? Maybe only mountain version? You know which KNIL artillery units had Bofors 75mm Mountain Howitzer

I will be obliged for help.
I apologize, that I ask so a lot of.
I wish nice weekend,
Jabu

George Eller
01-04-2008, 02:22 AM
Dear George,

I can ask about help?
I look for on information about Bofors 75mm Mountain Howitzer used by KNIL.
I know: this type gun captured by IJA from Kuomintang and KNIL.
I know, this type howitzer market by Japanese: Type Bo, and captured by during campaign at Nederland East Indies. Some howitzers used by at Guadalcanal campaign (probably 11 pieces from Japanese 20th Independent Mountain Gun Battalion and 2nd Field Artillery Regiment). IJA captured by probably at least two versions Bofors 75mm Mountain Howitzer.

Dear George, maybe you know how many howitzers this type had KNIL at 1941?
KNIL used by two type this gun? Maybe only mountain version? You know which KNIL artillery units had Bofors 75mm Mountain Howitzer

I will be obliged for help.
I apologize, that I ask so a lot of.
I wish nice weekend,
Jabu

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Hi Jabu,

Thanks for the pics :)

I got home late this evening, but did find some information before turning in for the night. Hope this helps.

All the information and photos below are from the following website owned by Stellan Bojerud:

KNIL-History
Koninklijk Nederlandsch Indisch Leger
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history

KNIL Artillery WW 2
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilartillery.msnw

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75 mm Mountain Gun M/1922 Bofors L/22 - 28 total

105 mm Howitzer M/1928 Bofors L/19 - 14 total

75 mm Field Gun M/1911 Krupp L/30 - 40 total

12 guns M/1911 were 1938-39 modernized with pneumatic air tires - (75 mm Field Gun M/1911-38 Krupp L/30)

75 mm Field Gun M/1917 Bethlehem L/30 - 50 total

75 mm Field Gun US Ordnance M2A2 L/40 - 12 total (2nd Bn 131st US Field Artillery - Texas National Guard)


When Krupp in 1919 was forbidden to make military equipment an order by KNIL for 12 field guns was transferred to Bofors in Sweden.

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75 mm Mountain Gun M/1922 Bofors L/22
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6115/75mmmountaingunm1922boffu6.jpg


28 bought 1922-25. 12 with 1st Monuntain Arty Bn (A I Bg) Tjimahi, 12 with 2nd Mountain Arty Bn (A II Bg) Salatiga and 4 with Depot Mobiele Artillerie (DMA) Tjimahi.

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75 mm Mountain Gun M/1922 Bofors L/22
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=19

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6626/75mmmountaingunm1922bofhl4.jpg


Most of the guns were modernized with pneumatic air tyres. The Mountain Arty Bns were motorized in 1941 with Maple Leaf trucks. In 1942 at least eight guns still had iron wheels. This survivor in in Jakarta Mil Museum.

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75 mm Mountain Gun M/1922 Bofors L/22
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=53

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7140/75mmmountaingunm1922bofsg1.jpg


In 1941 a 7th Mountan Bty was formed by Depot Mobiele Artillerie (DMA) in Tjimahi by the four training guns there. Those still had iron wheels.

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75 mm Mountain Gun M/1922 Bofors L/22
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/75mmmountaingun.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=88

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4382/75mmmountaingunm1922bofij8.jpg


Weight: 790 kg. 25 rounds/min. Max range: 10.500 m. Shell: 6,5 kg. Elev: - 10 + 50. Vo: 240-470 m/sec. This was a Krupp design taken over by Bofors in 1919 and later improved.

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105 mm Howitzer M/1928 Bofors L/19
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=6

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6601/105mmhowitzerm1928boforwo0.jpg


14 ordered 2nd May 1928 for delivery 1st March 1929. 12 with 1st Howitzer Arty Bn (A I Hw) Weltevreden/Jakarta. 2 with Depot Mobiele Artillerie (DMA) Tjimahi. The last mentioned 2 were 1942 used for an ad hoc formed Section.

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105 mm Howitzer M/1928 Bofors L/19
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=31

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3822/105mmhowitzerm1928bofordf4.jpg


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75 mm Field Gun M/1911 Krupp L/30
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=52

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6637/75mmfieldgunm1911krupplza4.jpg


There were 8 Batteries equipped with this type of guns plus some in the Depots. Totally approx 40. Intented for horse-traction but could be towed by trucks with a max speed of 30 km/h.

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75 mm Field Gun M/1911-33 Krupp L/30
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=18

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/9960/75mmfieldgunm1911krupplho2.jpg


By loading the gun on a two-wheel carriage known as the Buquor Adapter the guns could be towed with a speed of 60 km/h.

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75 mm Field Gun M/1911-38 Krupp L/30
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=5

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1499/75mmfieldgunm191138krupic7.jpg


12 guns M/1911 were 1938-39 modernized with pneumatic air tyres allowing motor traction with 60 km/h. All these guns served with 1st Field Artillery Battalion (A I Vd) in Malang.

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75 mm Field Gun M/1911 Krupp L/30
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/75mmfieldgun.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=104

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2494/75mmfieldgunm1911krupplkc6.jpg


Weight: 990 kg. Shell 6,5 kg. Range 9.300 m (6.200 m w clockwork fuze). Elev: - 7 + 16,5. Vo 500 m/sec.

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75 mm Field Gun M/1911 Krupp-Bofors L/30
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/75mmfieldgun.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=368

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9008/75mmfieldgunm1911krupplhr0.jpg


When Krupp in 1919 was forbidden to make military equipment an order by KNIL for 12 field guns was transferred to Bofors in Sweden. Delivery photo.

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Guncrew - 75 mm Field Gun M/1911 Krupp L/30
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/75mmfieldgun.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=108

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9126/guncrew75mmfieldgunm191or8.jpg


The gun commander, a Wachtmeester (Sergeant) standing left. Guncrew 6 men. 1st Field Artillery Battalion (A I Vd) Malang 1938.

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75 mm Field Gun US Ordnance M2A2 L/40
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=23

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8343/75mmfieldgunusordnancemzl7.jpg


The only US ground unit on Java was 2nd Bn 131st US Field Artillery (Texas National Guard, Lcl Tharp). D and F Btys fought in Buitenzorg-area (W Java) and E Bty in Soerabaja (E Java). The Bn had 12 guns.

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75 mm Field Gun M/1917 Bethlehem L/30
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=24

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9729/75mmfieldgunm1917bethlewm5.jpg


From USA 50 guns of this type (US made GB 18-Pdrs) were sent to Java. They had no telescopic sights (were on anoter ship). Fitted with local made simple gun-laying devices these guns were used for coast protection.

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SEE ALSO:

75 mm Mountain Gun (Bofors)
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/75mmmountaingun.msnw
MORE PHOTOS, including on pack horses.

75 mm Field Gun (Krupp)
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/75mmfieldgun.msnw
MORE PHOTOS

Artillery (older)
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/artilleryolder.msnw

Coast Artillery
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilcoastartillery.msnw

Anti-Aircraft Artillery
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilantiaircraftartillery.msnw

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jabu
01-04-2008, 04:09 AM
Hi George,

Thak you!
Very curious information. You very helped me. Thanks! :D
Yet oneself appeal.

Regards,
jabu

P.S.
I can pay back on subject with information about Polish or Japanese field artillery; anyone if would needed help :D

George Eller
01-04-2008, 08:32 PM
Hi George,

Thak you!
Very curious information. You very helped me. Thanks! :D
Yet oneself appeal.

Regards,
jabu

P.S.
I can pay back on subject with information about Polish or Japanese field artillery; anyone if would needed help :D
-

You're very welcome Jabu :)

Well, since you offered, I don't remember seeing any threads posted here on Polish or Japanese artillery (unless they've been archived). I think that the interest is here if you would like to start some threads on both subjects. :)

Thanks again for the pics and information.


All the Best,

George

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jabu
01-06-2008, 07:00 AM
Hi!

I studying use by IJA captured 75 mm Mountain Gun M/1922 Bofors L/22 - I wondered over these Japanese pictures (enclosed). I judged first, that this colonial 75 mm Mountain Gun M/1922 Bofors L/22 and 105 mm Howitzer M/1928 Bofors L/19. But, now I think, from this second gun this is probably 12cm Howitzer Krupp M.14. Guns from photo probably captured by China, not in Nederland East Indies, as I judged firstly.

And what do you about this judge?
KNIL also used by 12cm Howitzer Krupp M.14, but I dont know how many pieces...

Regards,
jarek

P.S

I made a mistake probably.
Propably, they are Japanese mountain guns except for Bofors 75mm at the top. They are as follows:

Bofors 75mm Mountain Gun
Type 99 10cm Mountain Gun
(similar to 12cm Howitzer Krupp M.14)
Experimental 75mm Mountain Gun
Experimental 10cm Mountain Gun

I apologize,
Jarek

George Eller
01-08-2008, 02:13 AM
Hi!

I studying use by IJA captured 75 mm Mountain Gun M/1922 Bofors L/22 - I wondered over these Japanese pictures (enclosed). I judged first, that this colonial 75 mm Mountain Gun M/1922 Bofors L/22 and 105 mm Howitzer M/1928 Bofors L/19. But, now I think, from this second gun this is probably 12cm Howitzer Krupp M.14. Guns from photo probably captured by China, not in Nederland East Indies, as I judged firstly.

And what do you about this judge?
KNIL also used by 12cm Howitzer Krupp M.14, but I dont know how many pieces...

Regards,
jarek

P.S

I made a mistake probably.
Propably, they are Japanese mountain guns except for Bofors 75mm at the top. They are as follows:

Bofors 75mm Mountain Gun
Type 99 10cm Mountain Gun
(similar to 12cm Howitzer Krupp M.14)
Experimental 75mm Mountain Gun
Experimental 10cm Mountain Gun

I apologize,
Jarek
-

Hi Jabu,

I'm not sure if the KNIL used the 12cm Howitzer Krupp M.14, as I have not seen any references to it in the Orders of Battle shown below.

-

World War II Armed Forces
Orders of Battle and Organizations
created and maintained by Dr. Leo Niehorster
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/index.htm
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/000_admin/000oob.htm
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/__nl.htm

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/_knil_army.html

-

Java

Mobilized Order of Battle
Netherlands East Indies Army
1st Military Department and Ist Division
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/01-afd.htm

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
2nd Military Department and IInd Division
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/02-afd.htm

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
3rd Military Department and IIIrd Division
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/03-afd.htm

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Army Aviation
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/army_air.html

-

Sumatra

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Territorial Command – North Sumatra
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_sumatra_north.html

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Territorial Command – Sumatra's West Coast and Tapanoeli
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_sumatra_west.html
(Shows 2 - 180mm L/46 guns at Emmahaven)

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Territorial Command – Riouw and Dependencies
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_sumatra_riouw.html

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Territorial Command – South Sumatra
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_sumatra_south.html

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Borneo

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Territorial Command – West Borneo Department
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_borneo_west.html

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Territorial Command – South and East Borneo Departments
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_borneo_south.html

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Local Command – Balikpapan
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_borneo_balikpapan.html
(Shows 4 - 120mm L/40 Naval guns at Kampong Baroe) - see also:
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilcoastartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=43

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Local Command – Tarakan
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_borneo_tarakan.html
(Shows 2 - 120mm L/40 Naval guns at Karoengan) see also:
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilcoastartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=43

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Local Command – Samarinda
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_borneo_samarinda.html

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Local Command – Samarinda II Air Base
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_borneo_samarinda2.html

-

Celebes and Manado

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Territorial Command – Celebes and Manado
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_celebes.html

-

Timor and Dependencies

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Territorial Command – Timor and Dependencies
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_timor.html

-

Moluccas

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Territorial Command – Moluccas
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_moluccas.html
(Shows 3 - 180mm L/46 naval guns at Nonesaive and 4 - 150mm L/40 turreted naval guns at Goenoeng Nona)
see also:
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilcoastartillery.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=42

-

SEE ALSO:

H.I.H. and H.I.H. Siderius
Dutch offshoots of Rheinmetall,
1923-1934
http://www.overvalwagen.com/HIHSiderius.html
http://www.overvalwagen.com/HIHSiderius1.html
http://www.overvalwagen.com/HIHSiderius2.html
http://www.overvalwagen.com/HIHSiderius3.html
http://www.overvalwagen.com/HIHSiderius4.html
http://www.overvalwagen.com/HIHSiderius5.html
http://www.overvalwagen.com/HIHSiderius6.html
http://www.overvalwagen.com/HIHSiderius7.html

tom´s Webseite
http://www.ww2technik.de/
Die japanische Militärmacht 1930 bis 1945
http://www.ww2technik.de/artikelmainj.htm
Artilleriewaffen:
http://www.ww2technik.de/jap%20artillerie.htm

TAKI'S HOME PAGE
IMPERIAL JAPANESE ARMY PAGE
http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/
ARTILLERY
http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/artillery.htm
http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/krupp.htm#12

-

jabu
01-09-2008, 05:23 PM
Hi George,

I thank you for information.
They me added very.
I work now over material about catured field and AT artillery at IJA between 1931-1945.

Best regards,
Jabu

jabu
01-13-2008, 08:46 AM
Dear George,

Probably several Vickers Crossley Armored Cars used by KNIL units during campaign in Netherlands East Indie at 1942.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:Upe0gj_2OpYJ:www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/alvis_straussler.html+Japanese+Vickers+Crossley+Ar mored+Cars&hl=pl&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=pl&client=firefox-a

You know something on this subject? Maybe you ow how much vehicles this type had KNIL at 1942? And what unit had Vickers Crossley AC?

I will be grateful for help

Regards,
Jabu

P.S.
Probably this type armored cars captured by then Japanese at 1942.
But it this only presumption, and was one should this check…

Early, Japanese In 1925 year interested this type vehicle, or offered order.
In reality IJA bought them before Manchurian Incident, probably late
in 1920s. I think: late in 1927.
IJN ordered them after Manchurian Incident happened. So, it was
late in 1931.

Probably in 1927 IJA bought three cars.

Probably in November or December 1931 IJN bought nine cars.

In IJN Crossley Armored Cars called it Type Bi or Type Vi Armored
Car "毘式?甲?動?".

Bi or Vi - abbrev from name Vikkasu (Vickers).

Bi and Vi they are the same at Japanese (sign kanji - 毘).

To write better probably – Type Vi.

I don’t know what the IJA called it officially.

Somewhere, western books pass that Japanese marked Vickers Crossley
Armored Cars:

Type 25 “Dowa”, or Type 87 Armored Car.

It is, probably a mistake.

Dowa will be Dowa Motorcar Company Ltd. in Manchuria. It produced armored
cars for Manchukuo Army. But, it has nothing to do with Vickers
Crossley Armored Car.

George Eller
01-15-2008, 12:42 AM
Dear George,

Probably several Vickers Crossley Armored Cars used by KNIL units during campaign in Netherlands East Indie at 1942.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:Upe0gj_2OpYJ:www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/alvis_straussler.html+Japanese+Vickers+Crossley+Ar mored+Cars&hl=pl&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=pl&client=firefox-a

You know something on this subject? Maybe you ow how much vehicles this type had KNIL at 1942? And what unit had Vickers Crossley AC?

I will be grateful for help

Regards,
Jabu

P.S.
Probably this type armored cars captured by then Japanese at 1942.
But it this only presumption, and was one should this check…

Early, Japanese In 1925 year interested this type vehicle, or offered order.
In reality IJA bought them before Manchurian Incident, probably late
in 1920s. I think: late in 1927.
IJN ordered them after Manchurian Incident happened. So, it was
late in 1931.

Probably in 1927 IJA bought three cars.

Probably in November or December 1931 IJN bought nine cars.

In IJN Crossley Armored Cars called it Type Bi or Type Vi Armored
Car "毘式?甲?動?".

Bi or Vi - abbrev from name Vikkasu (Vickers).

Bi and Vi they are the same at Japanese (sign kanji - 毘).

To write better probably – Type Vi.

I don’t know what the IJA called it officially.

Somewhere, western books pass that Japanese marked Vickers Crossley
Armored Cars:

Type 25 “Dowa”, or Type 87 Armored Car.

It is, probably a mistake.

Dowa will be Dowa Motorcar Company Ltd. in Manchuria. It produced armored
cars for Manchukuo Army. But, it has nothing to do with Vickers
Crossley Armored Car.
-

Hi Jabu,

I have not seen any mention of Vickers Crossley Armored Cars being used by KNIL units during campaign in Netherlands East Indies in 1942.

AFAIK - listing of tank and armored car types used by the KNIL:

Vickers Carden-Loyd M1936 "Dutchman" Light Tank
Carden-Lloyd M1931 light tank
Marmon-Herrington Light Tank

Alvis Straussler AC3D Armored Car
Marmon-Herrington Mk.III Armored Car
"Overalwagen" Armored Car
White M3A1 Scout Car
Krupp Gepanzerte Radfahrzeug

Below are some related links that may help you.


Good Luck :)

George

-

Dutch (KNIL) Armoured Units in the Dutch East Indies, 1941-1942
by Tom Womack
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/KNIL_armour.html

-

British Armoured Units in the Dutch East Indies, 1941-1942
British 3rd Hussar Tank Squadron in the Dutch East Indies, 1942
Short excerpt from the book The Galloping Third
by Hector Bolitho
with Appendix: The British Tank Unit in the East Indies
by Jacques Jost
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/british_armour.html

-

Pacific War 1941-1945 (New Forum)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/594514/

-

KNIL-history
Stellan Bojerud
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/meddelanden.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/whatisthepurposewiththosepages.msnw
Cavalry Squadron Organization 1941
http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/knilcavalry.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=76

-

Overvalwagens!
Kaleidoscope of military vehicles of the Dutch East and West Indies before 1945
http://www.overvalwagen.com/
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/
A.F. Eric Nuyt
nuyt@freemail.nl <nuyt@freemail.nl>

-

Marmon-Herrington Military Vehicles
http://www.geocities.com/marmonherrington/
Marmon-Herrington military vehicles in service: the Netherlands
http://www.geocities.com/marmonherrington/nl.html
Hanno Spoelstra
hl.spoelstra@inter.nl.net <hl.spoelstra@inter.nl.net>

-

Henk of Holland
South African Marmon-Herringtons in Service with the K.N.I.L.
by Hans Heesakkers
http://henk.fox3000.com/NedIndie.htm
Henk Timmerman
henkofholland(stop-spam)@hccnet.nl <henkofholland(stop-spam)@hccnet.nl>

-

MLU (Maple Leaf Up) Forum
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/
MLU Armour Forum
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=7
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=9244

-

jabu
01-15-2008, 06:12 PM
Hi,

many thanks you for help. I also never earlier did not hear, that KNIL bought and it used by Vickers-Crossley AC.

I have certainty now, that this is probably mistake ;)
I thank you for recommended internet-sides,

Regards,
Jabu

gumalangi
02-27-2008, 12:43 AM
very, very interesting topic here. Especially if you are Indonesian or Dutch. I spent much of times reading for this topics. Older brother of my mother was a member of KNIL, he came from northern celebes, when Japan occupied Dutch Colony, he went into jungle and hides with few of his comrades. When Japan arrived, they were searching for those local KNIL and have them executed. It was not known whether or not he was captured, but he never managed to return home.
The catch was, my father, when Japan arrived, recruited by force, joined into so called Kaigun-ho (navy auxillary). He and some other local recruits had to assist the japanese in searching those hidden KNILs in the area. According to my father, they were managed to engaged those hidden KNILS in few occassions, and they (KNIL) always runs deeper into the forest.

KMDjr
02-27-2008, 06:30 PM
Hello,

I have been very interested for some time in the KNIL and particularly the NEI campaign on Celebes. Recently I acquired and read (in translation) Nortier's new history of the war on Celebes, Ambon, etc. There was indeed a fair amount of guerilla resistance on Celebes, although much of it was half-hearted and most of it ineffective. Nortier records that apart from one or two instances in early February '42, the Japanese did not bother much with pursuing the remnants of the KNIL who had fled into the mountains & jungles of Celebes.

I'd be very interested to find more material on this part of the war.

The volunteer auxiliaries were called heiho, BTW. But they would have likely indeed been controlled by Kaigun, since the Imperial Japanese Navy had administrative control---through the Minseibu--of Celebes.

gumalangi
02-28-2008, 01:29 AM
The volunteer auxiliaries were called heiho, BTW. But they would have likely indeed been controlled by Kaigun, since the Imperial Japanese Navy had administrative control---through the Minseibu--of Celebes.


it is correct,. for Sumatra, Java, and parts of sumbawas were administered by Imperial Army, most of auxillaries formed into Gyugun or Heiho,..but Celebes, Maluccas, Halmahera (perhaps parts of Philipines) were under Imperial Navy,.. and they formed Kaigun-ho

KMDjr
02-28-2008, 10:37 AM
Hello,

Thank you very much for this information.

I would be interested to know if there are good records of personnel serving with KNIL under Capts. Anthonio & others at Kendari, Celebes when the war broke out? Not OOB, which I have, but more detailed records of specific troops there.

Also, records of war crimes investigations conducted there by the Dutch after the war?

Thanks in advance

George Eller
02-29-2008, 02:05 AM
-

Hi gumalangi and KMDjr :)

Welcome to the forum guys and thanks for posting the interesting information.

-

Forgotten Campaign: The Dutch East Indies Campaign 1941-1942 website
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/

-

The Fall of Menado, January 1942
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/menado.html


The city of Menado is situated at the Minahassa Peninsula in the north of Celebes Island and it is today an important trade harbor in Indonesia...

-

The capture of Makassar, February 1942
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/makassar.html


The city of Makassar is located at the southwest coast of Celebes Island and is today one of the most important harbors in Southeast Asia. The Indonesians called it Ujung Pandang...

-

The Fall of Kendari, January 1942
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/kendari.html


Kendari is a small town on the southeast peninsula of Celebes facing the Banda Sea towards Amboina Island. In World War II was Kendari considered as a very important air and naval base by both sides, Japanese and Allied. Especially significant for the war effort in advancing south, Kendari airfield was an important objective from which planes (bombers) could interdict routes between Australia and the Netherlands East Indies, also able to bomb major centres on east Java and Timor Islands, like for instance Soerabaja and Koepang...

-

Veterans of the Dutch East Indies Campaign
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/veterans.html


De geest van de Hollander - "The Ghost of the Dutchman"

After the fall of Celebes Island, February 1942, a small KNIL detachment, consisting of two Dutch officers (Lieutenant De Jong - commander and Lieutenant Van Dalen), four Dutch sergeants and 150 KNIL soldiers, continued with a guerilla war against the Japanese. They carried out several successful ambush attacks in Kolonodale area, killing many Japanese soldiers, but they were eventually all either captured or killed. Both officers were taken in captivity on 19 August 1942, and promptly beheaded after they refused to say that they regretted what they did to the Imperial Japanese Army. The only who managed to save himself by hiding in the dense jungle was KNIL Sergeant Jan Klinkhamer. Japanese offered a reward of 100 gulders to the local population for betraying him or handing-over. Only few local Indonesians knew where is he hiding and brought him food on several occasions. Other natives had spotted him twice vaguely in the foggy woods, and, therefore, started to call him "The Ghost of the Dutchman". He successfully stayed hiding in the jungle until 1945, when natives have finally informed him that Japan had capitulated. Only then he came from his hideout in the jungle, after spending more than three years in it.

In Holland, about five years ago, a TV Documentary about Sgt. Klinkhamer and his remarkable achievement was broadcasted on the television in the memory of the 50th anniversary of the end of World War II. The title of the documentary was "De geest van de Hollander". Now, this story has been told to me by the first time by Mr. Frans Zantvoort, who had watched that documentary few years ago. We are both kind of interested if anyone has any more information about him or his guerilla detachment. We are also trying to find out, if any book about him and his experience has ever been published. If you have anything what might help us, please contact the webmaster at his usual e-mail address [imperia555@hotmail.com].

-

gumalangi
02-29-2008, 07:13 AM
hi there george,.. ths,. very informative and interesting,.. Me and my parent came from area not far from Manado,.. base on the story of the attached link,..it was correct that my uncle and his comrades ran into Tomohon Highland and never came back.

by the way,.. Ujung Pandang was renamed again to Makassar,..

cheers

George Eller
02-29-2008, 11:19 AM
hi there george,.. ths,. very informative and interesting,.. Me and my parent came from area not far from Manado,.. base on the story of the attached link,..it was correct that my uncle and his comrades ran into Tomohon Highland and never came back.

by the way,.. Ujung Pandang was renamed again to Makassar,..

cheers
-

You're welcome gumalangi,

Yes, it looks like they only had one survivor from that group. Your uncle may have been killed in the fighting, but even if he was one of those that were captured, he may have died in captivity.

I have an aunt from Menado, Celebes. She married my mother's brother after the war. He was in the KNIL and became a POW after Java fell to the Japanese in March 1942. He was one of the survivors of the infamous "Death Railway" in Burma. They met after the war while he was recovering in a hospital where she was a nurse. After Indonesia gained independence, they moved to Dutch New Guinea, raised a family and in 1962 they moved to the Netherlands. My uncle has since passed away, but his widow is still living and currently resides in Amsterdam.

-

KMDjr
02-29-2008, 04:50 PM
Hello,

Thanks for the interesting posts. The journalist who researched and wrote about Klinkhammer was, I believe, Michiel Hegener. Hope I spelled his name right. I contacted Hegener about the Kendari area, but did not receive much of a response, although he did email back.
Some of the KNIL who escaped Kendari wound up at Palopo; others were captured & executed or killed in firefights. One group managed to get to Timor, I believe.
There were definitely Japanese killings at Menado and Kendari when these towns fell.
For these murders several high-ranking Japanese naval officers were later held responsible and executed by the Dutch, including RADM Mori Kunizo and the commander of the Special Naval Landing Force at Menado in Jan 1942, Horiuchi. But specific details of these trials--which I would like to find--have eluded me so far.

gumalangi
02-29-2008, 11:10 PM
-
I have an aunt from Menado, Celebes. She married my mother's brother after the war. He was in the KNIL and became a POW after Java fell to the Japanese in March 1942. He was one of the survivors of the infamous "Death Railway" in Burma. They met after the war while he was recovering in a hospital where she was a nurse. After Indonesia gained independence, they moved to Dutch New Guinea, raised a family and in 1962 they moved to the Netherlands. My uncle has since passed away, but his widow is still living and currently resides in Amsterdam.

-
New Hollandia eh,.

for some reasons, a lot of locals from my region,.. were inter married with Dutch,.. i have cousins of my own,.. in osterwijk,.. i visited her in 1998 . Some said,.. my mother got Dutch Bloodline as well, as she posses a light brown eyes, fair skin and brownish hair. And her father name is Karel.

George Eller
03-01-2008, 02:44 AM
Hello,

Thanks for the interesting posts. The journalist who researched and wrote about Klinkhammer was, I believe, Michiel Hegener. Hope I spelled his name right. I contacted Hegener about the Kendari area, but did not receive much of a response, although he did email back.

Some of the KNIL who escaped Kendari wound up at Palopo; others were captured & executed or killed in firefights. One group managed to get to Timor, I believe.

There were definitely Japanese killings at Menado and Kendari when these towns fell.
For these murders several high-ranking Japanese naval officers were later held responsible and executed by the Dutch, including RADM Mori Kunizo and the commander of the Special Naval Landing Force at Menado in Jan 1942, Horiuchi. But specific details of these trials--which I would like to find--have eluded me so far.
-

You're welcome and thanks for the information KMDjr,

Here is more on the killings in Celebes in 1942 as well as some related material.

Massacres of POWs, Dutch East Indies, 1941-1942
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/massacres.html

For Celebes:

Menado, Celebes Island, January 1942

Immediately following the Dutch surrender, the surviving KNIL troops and their commanders were put on trial by the Japanese who were enraged at the heavy losses they had suffered. As a result of this trial the D' Company Commander, KNIL Reserve 1st Lieutenant J. Wielinga and one of his platoon commander Sergeant-Major H.J. Robbemond, Foerier B. Visscher and nine native soldiers were bayonetted or beheaded.

Makassar, Celebes Island, January 1942

On February 9, Japanese troops landed about 8000 men south of Makassar. A strong detachment immediately advanced towards Makassar. The guards of a bridge (numbers not given) south of Makassar were captured along with the bridge, but a KNIL company of native soldiers inflicted casualties upon the Japanese. In retaliation, the Japanese tied the men of the bridge detachment together three by three with their legbands, and threw them in the water. Probably this happened still on February 9th.

George Duncan's Massacres and Atrocities of World War II - within the Pacific Region.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres_pacific.html

Center for Research Allied POWS Under the Japanese
http://www.mansell.com/pow-index.html

-



-

I have an aunt from Menado, Celebes. She married my mother's brother after the war. He was in the KNIL and became a POW after Java fell to the Japanese in March 1942. He was one of the survivors of the infamous "Death Railway" in Burma. They met after the war while he was recovering in a hospital where she was a nurse. After Indonesia gained independence, they moved to Dutch New Guinea, raised a family and in 1962 they moved to the Netherlands. My uncle has since passed away, but his widow is still living and currently resides in Amsterdam.

-

New Hollandia eh,.

for some reasons, a lot of locals from my region,.. were inter married with Dutch,.. i have cousins of my own,.. in osterwijk,.. i visited her in 1998 . Some said,.. my mother got Dutch Bloodline as well, as she posses a light brown eyes, fair skin and brownish hair. And her father name is Karel.
-

Hi gumalangi,

Yes, I believe it was Hollandia (now Kota Jayapura) in what was then Dutch New Guinea.

Well, my aunt from Menado, Celebes was half Dutch and half Indonesian. Same with my mother and her brothers and sisters. My mother's father was Dutch and her mother was Indonesian from Java. Grandfather was an Onderluitenant in the KNIL and two of his oldest sons also served in the KNIL. My mother was 9 years old when the Japanese invaded Java in March 1942. My grandfather died at the Tjimahi POW camp on 24 Jan 1945 and is buried in the cemetery there (central Java). The two oldest sons survived their WWII captivity.

Most of my mother's family moved to the Netherlands in 1949-50. Later, my mother left Holland and immigrated to the United States in 1957 during President Eisenhower's administration. She met my American father in Elkhart, Indiana and they married in 1958.

Many from the former Dutch East Indies have since settled here in the United States.

I think that I have been through Oosterwijk where your cousins live during my visits to the Netherlands. It is very possible that your mother has some Dutch in her. The Dutch presence in Indonesia (formerly the Dutch East Indies) lasted roughly 300 years. Also, there were Dutch that remained in Indonesia after it gained independence in 1949.

Oosterwijk (South Holland)
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oosterwijk&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=3&ct=result&prev=/search&#37;3Fq%3D%2B%2522Oosterwijk%2522%2Bwikipedia%2 6hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG%26as_qdr%3Dall

Interesting chatting with you. :)

Cheers.

-

gumalangi
03-02-2008, 08:49 AM
Hi George,..

With regards to the fall of Menado, heard stories from my some people there,..
In Bitung they are few small islands,. infact Airmididi is a place near to bitung,. one of the landing spot of the invading Japanese Navy,.

It was told that there was a small Dutch Gun Boat was harrassing the landing and did some cat and mouse attack of the incoming Japanese fleet. The boat always able to hide on the islands and the IJN vessels had some difficulties capturing this boat.

Does this story true?

Much of thanks

George Eller
03-03-2008, 01:15 AM
Hi George,..

With regards to the fall of Menado, heard stories from my some people there,..
In Bitung they are few small islands,. infact Airmididi is a place near to bitung,. one of the landing spot of the invading Japanese Navy,.

It was told that there was a small Dutch Gun Boat was harrassing the landing and did some cat and mouse attack of the incoming Japanese fleet. The boat always able to hide on the islands and the IJN vessels had some difficulties capturing this boat.

Does this story true?

Much of thanks
-

Hi gumalangi,

I am not sure about the story, but will check into it. I will post what I find.

Cheers

-

Rising Sun*
03-03-2008, 05:42 AM
Hello,

Thanks for the interesting posts. The journalist who researched and wrote about Klinkhammer was, I believe, Michiel Hegener. Hope I spelled his name right. I contacted Hegener about the Kendari area, but did not receive much of a response, although he did email back.
Some of the KNIL who escaped Kendari wound up at Palopo; others were captured & executed or killed in firefights. One group managed to get to Timor, I believe.
There were definitely Japanese killings at Menado and Kendari when these towns fell.
For these murders several high-ranking Japanese naval officers were later held responsible and executed by the Dutch, including RADM Mori Kunizo and the commander of the Special Naval Landing Force at Menado in Jan 1942, Horiuchi. But specific details of these trials--which I would like to find--have eluded me so far.

KMDjr

Don't know if this helps.


Enraged by the heavy losses, the Japanese executed a large number of KNIL POW's. Shortly after the capture of Langoan airfield the D' Company Commander 1st Lieutenant J. Wielinga, Sergeant-Major Robbemond, foerier B. Visscher and nine native soldiers were bayonetted or beheaded. Two more native soldiers died in captivity after they were tortured.

Knowing that the battle was lost, van den Berg ordered his remaining troops to retreat inland and start a guerrilla.


The Guerilla War, February 1942

On several places the remaining KNIL forces tried to start a guerrilla against the Japanese invaders. Captain Kroon assembled what was left of the Menado Compagnie (about 50 men) and retreated towards Kembes, hoping to start an active guerrilla from this place. Due to regular desertions by his native soldiers he reached Kembes with only nine men left. Here the group was taken prisoner by the Japanese. All European members, except Kroon himself, were executed at Langoan on January 26th. (Sergeant-Major J.H. Kersten, Sergeant-Major G. Bottinga, Sergeant J.W. Meijer, Sergeant G.H.J. Wissink, Private G.H. Couzijn and Private H.J.A. Rolff).

Sergeant Maliëzer from E-Company did not want to surrender and started a guerrilla with fifteen of his men. On February 8th they attacked a Japanese unit at Kanejan. The fighting lasted the whole day and the Japanese counter-attack failed. Outraged they burned the nearby Kampong and executed five civilians (including two women). On February 12th they came back with a larger force and this time captured Maliëzers group. Maliëzer too was executed at Langoan with twelve of his men. Also executed on this day was another woman, Mrs. Hofman, who took part in the guerrilla because the Japanese had executed her husband, a former knight of the Militaire Willemsorde.

Captain van den Berg's and his group were taken prisoner on February 20th. His group, made up out of pensioners, attacked the Japanese units on several occasions and inflicted heavy casualties. Out of respect for the high average age and fighting spirit, the Japanese commander spared their lives. http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/menado.html

Perhaps if you contact the main site at http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies they would be able to help you as they're very well informed on the NEI.

I'd expect that any trial of the Japanese you've mentioned would be at best C Class war criminals, possibly tried under Dutch jurisdiction after the war so they'd probably be in Dutch records somewhere rather than the International Military Tribunal for the Far East which tried the A and B Classes. Alternatively they could be in the C class criminals tried at Yokohama 1946-48 but I can't see their names in this unofficial list http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~warcrime/Japan/Yokohama/Reviews/PT-yokohama-index.htm#K. There's an official index somewhere on the internet, but I can't find it. In searching the names, remember that in English the order of the surname and given name may not reflect Japanese usage, so that Toyoaki Horiuchi (I don't know anything about him) might be listed under T rather than H.

Rising Sun*
03-03-2008, 07:17 AM
KMDjr


Ooops.

I think I might have covered stuff George Eller had already pointed to.

Sorry. To both KMDjr and George.

This is what happens when one posts to a post rather than reading a thread first.

KMDjr
03-03-2008, 01:52 PM
Hello Rising Sun,

Thanks for this info. I have already researched the IMTFE trials and these Japanese officers were not tried there AFAIK. There is good material re NEI warcrimes in the IMTFE documents--as held, for example, by Canterbury Univ. in Christchurch, NZ--but they aren't what I'm looking for now...

I believe the records are Dutch, and not readily accessible. It appears that the Japanese were charged and executed very quickly. (In Japan CAPT Horiuchi, Toyoaki is looked upon as a tragic hero.) And I am very familiar with the NEI websites, too. They do not have what I'm looking for, so when I found this site I thought I would ask. It's possible some useful materials may also be held in Australian archives, as there were warcrimes committed against Australians & Dutch POWs together--although these mainly occurred on the Burma-Siam "Death Railway" I think. But I believe they were imprisoned and mistreated at Ambon as well, among other places. Those warcrimes I am also familiar with...

thanks for your help anyway

Rising Sun*
03-03-2008, 04:15 PM
Hello Rising Sun,

Thanks for this info. I have already researched the IMTFE trials and these Japanese officers were not tried there AFAIK. There is good material re NEI warcrimes in the IMTFE documents--as held, for example, by Canterbury Univ. in Christchurch, NZ--but they aren't what I'm looking for now...

I believe the records are Dutch, and not readily accessible. It appears that the Japanese were charged and executed very quickly. (In Japan CAPT Horiuchi, Toyoaki is looked upon as a tragic hero.) And I am very familiar with the NEI websites, too. They do not have what I'm looking for, so when I found this site I thought I would ask. It's possible some useful materials may also be held in Australian archives, as there were warcrimes committed against Australians & Dutch POWs together--although these mainly occurred on the Burma-Siam "Death Railway" I think. But I believe they were imprisoned and mistreated at Ambon as well, among other places. Those warcrimes I am also familiar with...

thanks for your help anyway

Info on Australian war crimes trials sources is here http://www.awm.gov.au/journal/j30/sissons.htm

You might get a lead to more material through this sub-section of the Australian War Memorial http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/ajrp2.nsf/

The AWM is quite helpful with enquiries from the public. Just email them

Rising Sun*
03-03-2008, 05:32 PM
KMDjr

I forgot about this as a good starting point for research on Japanese documents. If you can't find anything there, an email might get you referred to someone who can help. http://www.jacar.go.jp/english/

I'm inclined to think that, while a lot of documents were destroyed during and shortly after the war by both the Japanese and the Allies, as these were post war trials then something might have survived.

You might get more info from the Australian National Archives from the source of the following quote, where you'll find a listing of some possibly relevant documents.


Between 30 November 1945 and 9 April 1951, 924 enemy nationals were tried for war crimes in 296 trials conducted by Australian military courts. The enabling legislation – the War Crimes Act 1945 – was passed by both houses of the Australian parliament on the same day (4 October 1945). Of those found guilty by these trials, 148 were sentenced to death and executed. An additional 496 were given prison sentences.

Trials were conducted in eight venues – Labuan, Wewak, Morotai, Rabaul, Darwin, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Manus Island http://www.naa.gov.au/about-us/publications/fact-sheets/fs61.aspx#section2

Rising Sun*
03-03-2008, 08:11 PM
BTW, if you need access to documents that aren't online and can't get to Australia, there are research agents who can do it for you. Don't know what their fees are like.

http://www.naa.gov.au/about-us/publications/fact-sheets/on-archives/index.aspx#section7

George Eller
03-07-2008, 08:13 PM
Hi George,..

With regards to the fall of Menado, heard stories from my some people there,..
In Bitung they are few small islands,. infact Airmididi is a place near to bitung,. one of the landing spot of the invading Japanese Navy,.

It was told that there was a small Dutch Gun Boat was harrassing the landing and did some cat and mouse attack of the incoming Japanese fleet. The boat always able to hide on the islands and the IJN vessels had some difficulties capturing this boat.

Does this story true?

Much of thanks
-

Hi gumalangi,

I am not sure about the story, but will check into it. I will post what I find.

Cheers

-
-

Hi gumalangi,

Sorry for the long delay. Just received a response at the Pacific War 1941-1945 Forum
http://www.network54.com/Forum/594514/

Mr. Jan Visser, who moderates the forum, gave the following reply:


Re: Dutch Patrol Boat - Japanese landings - Celebes
March 7 2008 at 6:34 PM Jan Visser (Login Visje1981)
Moderators

http://www.network54.com/Forum/594514/message/1204911244/Re-+Dutch+Patrol+Boat+-+Japanese+landings+-+Celebes

Response to Dutch Patrol Boat - Japanese landings - Celebes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some possibilities:

Motorboot S
Captured at Menado January 11, 1942. Sunk at Menado by Allied aircraft february 1945

Karimata
Captured Celebes (about January 1942). Sunk at Kwandang january 1945 by Allied aircraft.

Urania
Captured around March 25, 1942 at Posso, Celebes. Sunk by allied aircraft january 1945.

Togean
As Urania. Survived the war.

Magda
Captured. Date and place unknown.

Anna
Tugboat. Scuttled off Menado by crew January 11, 1942.

Motorboot 157
Captured Menado January 11, 1942. Sunk at Menado February, 1945 by Allied aircraft.

-

Jan Visser's website:

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5989/dutchnavybanner0ra.jpg
http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/

-

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6388/neibanner6rh.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/

Pacific War 1941-1945 Forum
http://www.network54.com/Forum/594514/

-

Hope this helps :)


All the Best,

George

-

gumalangi
03-09-2008, 10:09 AM
Hi there George Sir,..

Much of thanks for all those troubles,. at least i can rest assured that those folklores are true, well to be honest,. it was the story from my late father, as he was assigned to be part of those hunting parties,... sometimes I thought he was glorifying his stories,.. :D

Again,. .. Thank you Sir!

George Eller
03-09-2008, 06:13 PM
Hi there George Sir,..

Much of thanks for all those troubles,. at least i can rest assured that those folklores are true, well to be honest,. it was the story from my late father, as he was assigned to be part of those hunting parties,... sometimes I thought he was glorifying his stories,.. :D

Again,. .. Thank you Sir!
-

Hi gumalangi,

You are very welcome my friend :)

Looks like what your father said was true.

I have found the people at the Pacific War 1941-1945 forum to be very knowledgeable on anything related to the Dutch East Indies and WWII. I'm glad that Jan Visser was able to help.


All the Best,

George

-

gumalangi
03-14-2008, 02:06 PM
Say george,. are you the anak knil? ;)

George Eller
03-16-2008, 12:18 AM
Say george,. are you the anak knil? ;)
-

Hi gumalangi,

Sorry for the delay...it's been a busy last few days.

I did a google search on "anak knil" and assume that you mean the alias "anak knil" used on forums.

I think that "anak knil" is actually Stellan Bojerud from Sweden. He owns the KNIL History website. He uses that alias on his website photo albums and on his website forum. Stellan Bojerud is married to an Indonesian lady from Java whom he met in Stockholm, Sweden.

KNIL History
http://se.msnusers.com/KNIL-history/whatisthepurposewiththosepages.msnw

http://se.msnusers.com/KNIL-history/shoebox.msnw

-

I usually use my real name or some variation of George on forums :)

-

gumalangi
03-16-2008, 03:37 AM
Apology sir, for wrong accusation,. ;)

i did read a bit abut the site onwer, as it was so little information about the person, yet the informations and the pictures are plenty,. i as thinking it was you or someone related to you running the site,... as you yourself 'anak' KNIL yes? :)

Great Weekend to you George!.

Cheers

George Eller
03-17-2008, 09:26 PM
Apology sir, for wrong accusation,. ;)

i did read a bit abut the site onwer, as it was so little information about the person, yet the informations and the pictures are plenty,. i as thinking it was you or someone related to you running the site,... as you yourself 'anak' KNIL yes? :)

Great Weekend to you George!.

Cheers
-

Well, I guess in a figurative sense, you could say I am :)


All the Best to you my friend,

George

-

gumalangi
03-18-2008, 04:47 AM
Hi George,

Seems your expertise needed once more,.
The attached link, is this possibly another type of KNIL? as I am sure they are armed Balinese(?).

http://www.ww2incolor.com/unknown/foreign-530606.jpg

Regards,

George Eller
03-18-2008, 08:41 AM
Hi George,

Seems your expertise needed once more,.
The attached link, is this possibly another type of KNIL? as I am sure they are armed Balinese(?).

http://www.ww2incolor.com/unknown/foreign-530606.jpg

Regards,
-

Hi gumalangi,

My guess is one of the American mandates. Possibly Philippines or Samoa? They appear to have American type insignia and are armed with Remington rolling-block breech-loading single-shot rifles.

The uniforms, weapons, and insignia do not look like anything that I've seen of the KNIL.

Just my humble opinion :)

-

gumalangi
03-18-2008, 08:53 AM
That is why I am asking,.. the uniform, ranks and arms seems none from KNIL. However, if you ever been to bali, Black and white patch(chess pattern type) sarong, is definetely a must for men going to war, as it is considered as sacred 'gear'.

Cheers

bangalore_andy
05-22-2008, 02:54 AM
Hi... does anybody can give me some information about the KNIL Troops, cause my grandfather is a former KNIL, his name is PIETER ABRAHAM De Costa, Born in Indramayu west java at Oct' 20 1927, and i want to know where my grand father being duty,
Thanks

George Eller
05-22-2008, 07:01 PM
Hi... does anybody can give me some information about the KNIL Troops, cause my grandfather is a former KNIL, his name is PIETER ABRAHAM De Costa, Born in Indramayu west java at Oct' 20 1927, and i want to know where my grand father being duty,
Thanks
-

Hello Andy,

Welcome to the forum :)

If you read through this thread, you will find a lot of useful information. I posted a number of links on page 1 of this thread related to the KNIL. My grandfather was also in the KNIL.


All the Best,

George

-

Burghout
05-29-2008, 03:03 AM
Hello,

I am the daughter of a former Dutch Indonesian POW. I have been longing to learn more of the history and to hear of others with similiar stories. My mother was very young at the time. My mother, her father, and mother all relocated to Holland. My mother joined the Air Force, married, and moved to the US. I was informed that because of her status as a POW she was granted amnesty. I have very limited information.
Thank you for the opportunity to learn from others who have memories or knowledge of this era.

George Eller
05-29-2008, 09:41 AM
Hello,

I am the daughter of a former Dutch Indonesian POW. I have been longing to learn more of the history and to hear of others with similiar stories. My mother was very young at the time. My mother, her father, and mother all relocated to Holland. My mother joined the Air Force, married, and moved to the US. I was informed that because of her status as a POW she was granted amnesty. I have very limited information.
Thank you for the opportunity to learn from others who have memories or knowledge of this era.
-

Welcome to the forum Burghout,

My late mother had a similar background to your mother. She was also young (9 years old) when the Japanese invaded Java. Her family also moved to Holland during the post war period. She immigrated to the USA in 1957 under President Eisenhower's program for displaced persons (DP's) from WWII. She married my American father in 1958.

We have a thread here that relates to the Dutch East Indies (present day Indonesia):

KNIL (Royal Netherlands Indies Army)
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2936

Various websites and images relating to the Netherlands East Indies and the KNIL (Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger or Royal Netherlands Indies Army), the Dutch colonial army in the Netherlands East Indies (present day Indonesia).

All the Best,

George

-

Robin1942
06-15-2008, 02:03 PM
I'm very glad to see this information about KNIL and the Dutch East Indies Campaign. Both my grandfather Han Samethini and his brother Frank served in KNIL, and were sent to the Burma Railway as POWs. Currently I am borrowing my great uncle's unpublished World War II memoir, and I've also received a copy of his wife's account of her internment at Ambawara and Banjubiru concentration camps.

One of the soldiers in the first KNIL group photo looks a bit like my grandfather, but I'll need to compare it with contemporary civilian photos to be sure. I have a picture of my great uncle wearing his uniform on his wedding day in Bandung, Java, in June 1941.

My mother, born in Surabaya, East Java, does not remember the Japanese occupation per se. But she recalls vividly the steady droning of massed aircraft motors as she huddled with her family in an improvised bomb shelter. As best I can tell, this was the sound of B-24s of the 380th Bomb Group, which flew at least two missions against targets in Surabaya in 1944.

George Eller
06-15-2008, 04:14 PM
I'm very glad to see this information about KNIL and the Dutch East Indies Campaign. Both my grandfather Han Samethini and his brother Frank served in KNIL, and were sent to the Burma Railway as POWs. Currently I am borrowing my great uncle's unpublished World War II memoir, and I've also received a copy of his wife's account of her internment at Ambawara and Banjubiru concentration camps.

One of the soldiers in the first KNIL group photo looks a bit like my grandfather, but I'll need to compare it with contemporary civilian photos to be sure. I have a picture of my great uncle wearing his uniform on his wedding day in Bandung, Java, in June 1941.

My mother, born in Surabaya, East Java, does not remember the Japanese occupation per se. But she recalls vividly the steady droning of massed aircraft motors as she huddled with her family in an improvised bomb shelter. As best I can tell, this was the sound of B-24s of the 380th Bomb Group, which flew at least two missions against targets in Surabaya in 1944.
-

Hi Robin,

Welcome to the forum :)

Thanks also for sharing those stories. My mother's family was also there during the war. She was 9 years old when the Japanese invaded. She used to tell us about how the people in the concentration camp would cheer when the allied planes flew overhead. It gave them hope.

My grandfather and two uncles in the KNIL became POWs. One uncle was sent to Burma to build the railway. The other uncle was sent to Japan on one of the "hell ships". They both survived the war, but have since passed away. My grandfather died at the Tjimahi POW camp in west central Java in January 1945.

Here are some threads from our forum relating to the Dutch East Indies and the Camps that may be interesting to you:

Civilian POWs in Indonesia WWII
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5265

Various Womens' websites and stories from WWII Dutch East Indies
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=107987&postcount=2

Japanese camp commandants
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5582

Camps in the Dutch East Indies: with maps
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=112178&postcount=2

Elizabeth van Kampen
Memories of my youth and the years of the Japanese occupation in the former Dutch East Indies during World War Two
http://www.dutch-east-indies.com/
http://www.dutch-east-indies.com/story/index.htm

KNIL (Royal Netherlands Indies Army)
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2936


All the Best,

George

-

Robin1942
06-15-2008, 05:34 PM
Thanks for the welcome, George.

My great uncle Frank was also sent to Japan on a hell ship in August 1944, after slaving on the Burma Railway. He recorded the names of all the POW camps he was in. My grandfather was extremely reticent about his POW experience, so I've had to reconstruct it from evidence in his scrapbooks, in published works, Frank's memoir, and contacts with Railway scholars and POW survivors.

I'm working on a blog/biography of my grandfather. However, it needs revision with all the new information I've received from Frank's family:

http://hansamethini.blogspot.com

Question: Do you have any information on Fort Menari, which guarded one of the approaches to Surabaya harbor? Frank was a machine gunner there. He saw the ABDA fleet leaving port for the Battle of the Java Sea. His father-in-law was aboard the De Ruyter, and went down with her.

About your uncle who was sent to the Railway: did he say which camps he was in? Do I understand correctly that your mother's family was in Surabaya during the war?

- Robin

George Eller
06-15-2008, 08:20 PM
Thanks for the welcome, George.

My great uncle Frank was also sent to Japan on a hell ship in August 1944, after slaving on the Burma Railway. He recorded the names of all the POW camps he was in. My grandfather was extremely reticent about his POW experience, so I've had to reconstruct it from evidence in his scrapbooks, in published works, Frank's memoir, and contacts with Railway scholars and POW survivors.

I'm working on a blog/biography of my grandfather. However, it needs revision with all the new information I've received from Frank's family:

http://hansamethini.blogspot.com

Question: Do you have any information on Fort Menari, which guarded one of the approaches to Surabaya harbor? Frank was a machine gunner there. He saw the ABDA fleet leaving port for the Battle of the Java Sea. His father-in-law was aboard the De Ruyter, and went down with her.

About your uncle who was sent to the Railway: did he say which camps he was in? Do I understand correctly that your mother's family was in Surabaya during the war?

Robin
-

Hi Robin,

You are most welcome :) I must compliment you on your very interesting and professionally done blog site.

My mother's family was living in Jogjakarta, Java when the Japanese invaded. After the war broke out, my grandfather "Otto" Frankfort was mobilized and eventually stationed in Bandung, Java, N.E.I.

My uncle that was a POW on the Burma Railway was named Jan Frankfort. After the war, while he was recovering in a hospital, he met his future wife who was a nurse there. She was from Menado, Celebes. After Indonesia gained independence, they moved to Dutch New Guinea, raised a family and in 1962 they moved to the Netherlands. He did have some post traumatic stress and would have nightmares from his ordeal in his later years. I only knew him from my short visits to Holland on vacation. I don't know which camps he was in. My uncle passed away in the late 1980's, but his widow is still living and currently resides in Amsterdam.

My other uncle, Jacob Frankfort, was sent to Japan on a "hell ship" but I'm not sure of the exact date. He did mention the cities where he was imprisoned, but I can't recall which ones. My cousins would probably know. He passed away in the 1990's in Orlando, Florida.

My grandfather, O.T. "Otto" Frankfort was an Onderluitenant in the KNIL and died 24 Jan 1945 at the Tjimahi POW camp in west central Java near Bandung. His grave is number 700. The cemetery contains 4,911 graves ... they must have been dropping like flies in the last months of the war.

-

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4130/ottofrankfort01ln7.jpg
Sergeant O.T. "Otto" Frankfort at age 29 in Ambarawa, Java 1918. My grandfather enlisted in the KL (Koninklijk Leger or Royal Army of the Netherlands) in 1904 at age 15 and served to 1912. He re-enlisted in 1914 and in 1915 transferred to the KNIL (Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger or Royal Netherlands Indies Army) serving 1915 to 1945. The uniform is "klein blauw tenue" (very dark blue). Later, in 1921 he was promoted to Sergeant-major, and in 1933 to Onderluitenant.

Note: His father died in 1898 when my grandfather was 9 years old. He had one sister who was a year older and his widowed mother. It may have been a factor in his joining the army at age 15 in 1904. In 1907 his sister died. Several decades later his mother died in February 1940 at the onset of World War II.

-

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8927/ottofrankfort03vs7.jpg
Onderluitenant O.T. "Otto" Frankfort at age 48 in 1937 at a celebration of his being decorated (jubileum). This took place at the Frankfort residence by the Magazyne Van Oorlog Building in Sportplein, Jogjakarta, Java. The family of Captain Ter Stege Deikerhof lived in the house on the opposite side of the building. My grandfather had been promoted to Onderluitenant in 1933 and was still in active service in 1940 (He stayed longer in the service for the benefit of his children). Colorized by one of my younger sisters.

-

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1723/ottofrankfort02pt7.jpg
Onderluitenant O.T. "Otto" Frankfort from his Military Identification taken prior to World War II. My grandfather had been promoted to Onderluitenant in 1933 and was still in active service in 1940. After the war broke out, he was mobilized and eventually stationed in Bandung, Java, N.E.I.

-

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7536/ottofrankfort04lo6.jpg
Grandfather died at the POW camp in Tjimahi, Java, Netherlands East Indies and is buried at the Leuwigadjah military cemetery among the 4,911 graves. The Inscription GEP. OLT. INF. KNIL. = GEPENSIONEERD ONDERLUITENANT INFANTERIE KNIL

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=u09V3tkVk7I

-

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2497/knilgraves01oo9.jpg
Leuwigadjah Military Cemetery formally called Tjimahi between Bandung and Tjimahi in central Java. (Ereveld Tjimahi = Honorfield Tjimahi). From book Herdenking te Den Haag op 15 Aug 1970 EEN ERESCHULD INGELOST 25 jaar na de capitulatie van Japan: het einde van de Tweede Wereldoorlog.

-

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/3230/knilgraves02cb0.jpg
WWII Dutch graves in the Far East.

-

I have more pics of his military records, dog tags, etc., but I am running short on time. They will have to wait until later.

-

A little on Ft. Merari: (two 40mm anti-aircraft guns were posted there)

KNIL Artillery in 1942
BY STELLAN BOJERUD
http://www.overvalwagen.com/KNILartillery.html


2nd AA Btn (A II Ld) at Soerabaja
Fort Menari 2-40 mm
Fort Tjowek 2-40 mm
Fort Piring 2-40 mm
Fort Moedong 2-40 mm, 2-20 mm, 2-12,7 mm MG
Batoe Porong 4-80 mm
Kampong Dawir 4-80 mm
Perak Airbase 4-105 mm, 4-40 mm
Monokrembang AFB 2-20 mm

I have seen references to Fort Ngawi and Fort Van den Bosch in East-Java near Surabaya.

It looks like you are doing some serious research on your grandfather. I wish you success on your blog/biography about him. :)


All the Best,

George

-

EDITED 19 JUNE 2008 - More information and images added per above comments:

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7861/ottofrankfort05gw0.jpg
My grandfather's dogtag - side one: N.I. / 75608 / 1888 / BLG. O / Frankfort, Oebele T. (Theunis) / Prot. Grandfather was known as "Otto" to his wife, friends and colleagues.

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http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4428/ottofrankfort06af9.jpg
My grandfather's dogtag - side two: N.I. / 75608 / 1888 / BLG. O / Frankfort, Oebele T. (Theunis) / Prot. Grandfather was known as "Otto" to his wife, friends and colleagues.

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http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7728/ottofrankfort07yk4.jpg

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My grandfather's partial Military Records from Netherlands Archives - Retyped for clarity:

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7306/ottofrankfort08ms1.jpg

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My grandfather's partial Military Records from Netherlands Archives - Copy of Original:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2872/ottofrankfort09hv9.jpg

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My grandfather's Birth Certificate - Copy of Original in Dutch with added translation to English at bottom.

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/3240/ottofrankfort10qh7.jpg

-

http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/MLKNIL_uniforms.html

-

ALSO:

Camps in the Dutch East Indies:

Japanse burgerkampen
http://www.japanseburgerkampen.nl/index.htm

Kampen op Sumatra
http://www.japanseburgerkampen.nl/Sumatra-kampen.htm

** Kampen op Java
http://www.japanseburgerkampen.nl/Java-kampen.htm

Kampen op Borneo
http://www.japanseburgerkampen.nl/Borneo-kampen.htm

Kampen op Celebes
http://www.japanseburgerkampen.nl/Celebes-kampen.htm

Kampen in Oostelijke Archipel
http://www.japanseburgerkampen.nl/Oostelijke&#37;20Archipel-kampen.htm

-

THE MAP ROOM
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/000_admin/006_maps.html

NETHERLANDS EAST INDIES, 1935

Sumatra
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/maps/sumarta.jpg

** Java - 1935
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/maps/java.jpg

Borneo
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/maps/borneo.jpg

Celebes
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/maps/celebes.jpg

The Moluccas
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/maps/molukken.jpg

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George Eller
06-21-2008, 06:59 PM
Question: Do you have any information on Fort Menari, which guarded one of the approaches to Surabaya harbor? Frank was a machine gunner there. He saw the ABDA fleet leaving port for the Battle of the Java Sea. His father-in-law was aboard the De Ruyter, and went down with her.

- Robin

Hi Robin,

A little on Ft. Merari: (two 40mm anti-aircraft guns were posted there)

KNIL Artillery in 1942
BY STELLAN BOJERUD
http://www.overvalwagen.com/KNILartillery.html


2nd AA Btn (A II Ld) at Soerabaja
Fort Menari 2-40 mm
Fort Tjowek 2-40 mm
Fort Piring 2-40 mm
Fort Moedong 2-40 mm, 2-20 mm, 2-12,7 mm MG
Batoe Porong 4-80 mm
Kampong Dawir 4-80 mm
Perak Airbase 4-105 mm, 4-40 mm
Monokrembang AFB 2-20 mm

I have seen references to Fort Ngawi and Fort Van den Bosch in East-Java near Surabaya.

-

De Ruyter class cruiser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Ruyter_class_cruiser

http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/DeRuyter1.htm

http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Photo_ruyter.htm

http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Cruisers/Ruyter_voor.jpg

http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/

-

Battle of the Java Sea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Java_Sea

Second Battle of the Java Sea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_the_Java_Sea

The Java Sea Campaign
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/USN-CN-Java/index.html

Battle of the Java Sea: 27 February 1942
http://www.microworks.net/PACIFIC/battles/java_sea.htm

The Java Sea Battle
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/java_sea.html

Battle of the Java Sea
http://www.awm.gov.au/alliesinadversity/japanese/java.asp

Order of Battle - Battle of the Java Sea - 27-28 February 1942
http://www.navweaps.com/index_oob/OOB_WWII_Pacific/OOB_WWII_Java-Sea.htm

-

The Fall of the Dutch East Indies, 1941-1942
http://www.historyanimated.com/DutchEastIndiesPage.html
Animation:
http://www.historyanimated.com/DutchEastIndies.html

The Japanese Invasion of the Philippines, the Dutch East Indies, and Southeast Asia
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USSBS/PTO-Campaigns/USSBS-PTO-3.html

Battle of Java (1942)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Java_%281942%29

The conquest of Java Island, March 1942
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/java.html

The End in Java
http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/20/chapters/22.pdf

-

Soerabaja (Surabaya)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surabaya

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Peta_soerabaja_1897.jpg
1897 map

Surabaya Tourism
http://wikitravel.org/en/Surabaya
http://www.eastjava.com/tourism/surabaya/

Satellite Map by Google Earth
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-7.288399,112.743073&spn=0.166014,0.234180&t=k&hl=en

Battle of Surabaya (post-WWII)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Surabaya

-

I wish you continued success on your blog/biography about your grandfather. :)


All the Best,

George

-

George Eller
06-21-2008, 07:04 PM
-

VIDEOS:

Colonial Dutch Army 1939 - in color
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YQsftmLO6Lk

Features: Governor General Jhr. Mr. A.W.L. van Starkenborgh Stachouwer (formally Commander-in-Chief of the NEI Armed Forces) and his wife, Stadswacht Batavia - Townwatch Batavia (modern day Jakarta) similar to home guard or militia unit, armored cars, Brewster Buffalo fighter planes of the NEI air force, and Dutch naval ships on maneuvers.


Original Title: Coveted East Indies
Director: Deane ****ason
Editor: Falkonungu (2007)
Production date: ca. 1938-39

This film appears MOS, but originally had sound and was produced and narrated by the radio world travel radio commentator Deane ****ason. Interesting silent portrait of cultural life in the East Indies during Dutch colonialism.
PA8530 Coveted East Indies, The 16mm Koda travelogue, 2 reels, ca. 1938-39

This item is part of the collection: Prelinger Archives

-

Colonial Dutch-Indies (1938-39 in colour) [Part 1 of 4]
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pWFeVQoVy1s

Colonial Dutch-Indies (1938-39 in colour) [Part 2 of 4]
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fqENNzU5lLw

Colonial Dutch-Indies (1938-39 in colour) [Part 3 of 4]
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jl1pJssdpu0

Colonial Dutch-Indies (1938-39 in colour) [Part 4 of 4]
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=luMGXq2mrY8


Original Title: Coveted East Indies
Director: Deane ****ason
Production date: ca. 1938-39

A public-domain footage I found on www.archive.org - thought better share it here!

These are scenes from the latter years of Dutch colonialism in Indonesia - and it appears much of the footage has been shot around 1938-39.

Some interesting scenes of Menteng.
The footage is full of street scenes, colonial lifestyles and 'orientalist' landscapes.

http://www.archive.org/details/coveted_east_indies_1

This film appears MOS, but originally had sound and was produced and narrated by the radio world travel radio commentator Deane ****ason. Interesting silent portrait of cultural life in the East Indies during Dutch colonialism.
PA8530 Coveted East Indies, The 16mm Koda travelogue, 2 reels, ca. 1938-39

This item is part of the collection: Prelinger Archives

Producer: Deane ****ason
Audio/Visual: Si, color

-

BATAVIA 1939
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1syhnagy2iE


Original Title: Coveted East Indies
Director: Deane ****ason
Editor: Falkonungu (2007)
Production date: ca. 1938-39

Interesting color portrait of BATAVIA in the East Indies during Dutch colonialism.

PA8530 Coveted East Indies, The 16mm Koda travelogue, 2 reels, ca. 1938-39

This item is part of the collection: Prelinger Archives.

-

The Fall of Java Island, March 1942 Dutch East Indies
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qlT2UTsDgkg

-

Koninklijk Nederlandsch Indisch Leger KNIL
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu9YspavVXw

-

7 December Divisie Nederlands Indie
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bA9qrB5ygJo

1e divisie 7 december Nederlands Indie
Filmbeelden van de Nederlandse inzet in Nederlands Indie 1946-1950

-

1e Politionele Actie Nederlands Indie 1947
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u5-APHxW7-E

-

De zaak-Aernout (wapensmokkel en moord in Nederlands-Indi&#235;)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=W7NxCttKnsg

-

Indonesia 1940 pre war oud Indi&#235;.KNIL.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eBSeAFLw9jY

-

Kurkdjian Come to Java 1922-23 Dutch East Indies Photography
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UvAuQs8EDPs

-

Old Jakarta 1919
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tKQcVyAlKSE
City was known as Batavia in those days.

-

1652 Van Riebeeck
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0cZehTAy-E0


1652 - Jan van Riebeeck stig 'n verversingspos aan die Kaap

Johan Anthoniszoon "Jan" van Riebeeck (21 April 1619--18 January 1677), was a Dutch colonial administrator and founder of Cape Town. He was born in Culemborg in the Netherlands as the son of a surgeon. He grew up in Schiedam, where he married Maria Cotze on 28 March 1649. (She died in Malacca, now part of Malaysia, on 2 November 1664, at the age of 35). The couple had eight sons, one of whom, Abraham van Riebeeck, would become a Governor-General of Dutch East Indies.

Joining the Dutch East India Company (VOC) in 1639, he served in a number of posts, including that of an assistant surgeon in the Batavia in the East Indies. He subsequently visited Japan. His most important position was that of head of the VOC trading post in Tonkin, Vietnam. However, he was called back from this post as it was discovered that he was conducting trade for his own account.

In 1651 he was requested to undertake the command of the initial Dutch settlement in the future South Africa. He landed three ships Drommedaris, Reijger and Goede Hoop at the future Cape Town on 6 April 1652 and fortified the site as a way-station for the VOC trade route between the Netherlands and the East Indies.

Van Riebeeck was Commander of the Cape from 1652 to 1662; he was charged with building a fort, with improving the natural anchorage at Table Bay, planting fruit and vegetables and obtaining livestock from the indigenous Khoi people. In the Kirstenbosch Botanical Gardens in Cape Town there is a wild almond hedge still surviving that was planted on his orders as a barrier. The initial fort was made of mud, clay and timber, and had four corners or bastions. This first fort should not be confused with the present-day Cape Town Castle. The Castle, built between 1666 and 1679, several years after Van Riebeeck's departure, has five bastions and is made of brick, stone and cement.

Van Riebeeck reported the first comet discovered from South Africa, C/1652 Y1, which was spotted on December 17, 1652.

He died in Batavia (now renamed Jakarta) on the island of Java in 1677.
(Source: Wikipedia)

-

Belofte maakt schuld Deel 1
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mjYCgTyBmoQ

-

Waarom Huil Je Toch Nona Manis
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dx8tCcK-_W0
Performed by Rudi van Dalm and his Raindrops.
Old song from the Dutch East Indies - my mom used to like this song.

Other variations:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lqIn_YOIgHY
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hasw0EJSbwk
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-b2cZHixLvU
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uMUMHqOYqL0

-

Manise, Manise
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PTwWciAfQQc
Another old song from the Dutch East Indies.

Other variations:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nkYWJNP1BAo
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kLXc2RYCZFk

-

BearMgk
06-22-2008, 01:13 PM
intresting footage keep posting

royal744
06-22-2008, 07:01 PM
De Ruyter was a beautiful ship! I have a picture of an American cruiser that called in Indonesia during the 30s, taken, I believe, by my father who then lived at the Zuiker Fabriek Tjande, where his English stepfather was the general manager. I thought the ship may have been Dutch but it didn't look like any Dutch cruiser of the period. I submitted the photo to a naval site, and, incredibly, they identified it in a matter of hours! It was an American cruiser.

George Eller
06-23-2008, 09:42 AM
intresting footage keep posting
-

Thanks Bear - I'll see what I can come up with :)

-

De Ruyter was a beautiful ship! I have a picture of an American cruiser that called in Indonesia during the 30s, taken, I believe, by my father who then lived at the Zuiker Fabriek Tjande, where his English stepfather was the general manager. I thought the ship may have been Dutch but it didn't look like any Dutch cruiser of the period. I submitted the photo to a naval site, and, incredibly, they identified it in a matter of hours! It was an American cruiser.
-

Yes, she was a beautiful ship. IIRC, the wrecks of the light cruisers De Ruyter and Java were located in 2002.
There are photos at the Pacific Wrecks website.
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/people/visitors/denlay.html

Hr Ms De Ruyter
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/HrMs/de_ruyter.html
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/HrMs/de_ruyter/index.html
http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Photo_ruyter.htm

Hr Ms Java
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/HrMs/java.html
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/HrMs/java/index.html

Both were sunk by torpedoes launched from the Japanese heavy cruisers Nachi and Haguro around 11:30 PM, the night of 27 Feb 1942.

http://www.microworks.net/PACIFIC/battles/java_sea.htm

...These actions cost Doorman his entire destroyer force. Without a screen the four Allied cruisers proceeded north until they were sighted by a lookout on the Nachi at 2302 at a range of 16,000 yards. At this time the Nachi and Haguro were headed south southwest. They swung to the port toward the Allies and assumed a parallel course heading due north. The Allies opened fire at 2310 on the Japanese heavy units. The Japanese didn’t return fire until 2321. At 2322 Nachi launched eight torpedoes, followed one minutes later by Haguro with a salvo of four. The range was approximately 14,000 yards. In contrast to the hundreds of torpedoes launched previously, these told. The De Ruyter was hit aft at 2332 by one of Haguro’s four, exploding her ammunition and killing Doorman along with 344 of his crew. She sank very quickly. Two minutes later one of Nachi’s spread struck Java. She took an hour and a half to sink...

Royal, do you remember which American cruiser was in the photo that your father took in Indonesia during the 1930's?

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George Eller
09-01-2008, 08:23 PM
Hello fellas

If you want to learn more about KNIL, NICA and about Dutch army in Indonesia you can ask me
My grandfather was a Indonesian freedom fighter which known as BKR later became TNI (National army). He was a student in that time and he answerd the duty calls
-

Hello Abi,

Welcome to the forum. I hope that this thread and others related to Indonesia under Dutch colonial rule prior to and during World War II has been interesting to you.

All the Best,

George :)

-

flamethrowerguy
12-18-2008, 08:16 AM
KNIL related threads merged.

Robin1942
06-07-2009, 11:42 AM
I've just obtained a copy of my grandfather's Japanese POW camp Index Card (from the first camp he was interned in, in Malang, East Java). The card lists his unit as Infantry VI. Can anyone tell me about this unit and its deployments on Java in 1942? I have an idea it might actually be the 6th Anti-tank, which fought briefly near Malang. My grandfather's military records seem to show that he received artillery training in addition to infantry (the papers show the abbreviations Inf. and Art. for weapons branches).

- Robin

cimot_cool
08-28-2009, 02:53 PM
Interesting pictures and video. thanks for sharing mate :)

Robin1942
09-05-2009, 09:01 AM
The Sky Looked Down, the POW memoir of KNIL sergeant Frank Samethini, has been published as a blog:

http://theskylookeddown.blogspot.com (http://theskylookeddown.blogspot.com/)

Among his varied experiences as a POW of the Japanese, Samethini describes working on the infamous Burma Railway, a dangerous sea voyage to Japan, and the devastating B-29 raid on the city of Toyama.

Excerpt:

Railroad: A word which most of us in later years will immediately associate with the dull ache of hunger, the stench of festering ulcers, the searing sun. Work gang: The soreness of extreme fatigue, the sting of the smack in the face, the pain of the kick on the shin, the rifle butt in the back. Railroad: The ultimate in hardship, the end of the fall. Whatever hope we had in the preceding years, in the Java and Singapore camps, has fled into nothingness. All the horror written about slavery in books of history and fiction has leaped out of the pages to engulf and consume us, in a never ending hell passing from one day to another. But as history shows, all the brutality in the world cannot halt the will to survive. The rags we wear, what meagre possessions we have tucked away in frayed rucksacks, our very lives, all of that is owned by the Japanese. But the rumours, improbable as they may sound, are ours. Ours to be passed on in whispers and listened to hungrily. Yes, the rumours are ours. And the unsquashable, incredible sense of humour, witty and often biting, that too is ours, that also the Japanese cannot take away. For the rumours and sense of humour are an essential part of the spirit to carry us through until victory is ours, or until death has stilled our lips.

Evertb
12-28-2009, 05:20 PM
Wow, I just ended up on this forum through a Google search and there's a wealth of information here.
I am trying to find more information about the KNIL in general and more in specific anything relating to my grandfathere (E.M.W. Bopp). He was stationed in Dilli/Timor in 1942 as a 1st sergeant (sergeant 1ste klas) in the Infantry (infanterie) I have been unable to determine his exact unit but am working on this. His was a training/drill sergeant or instructor. My grandmother and her family were living near Djogjakarta at the time.
His unit took part in the battle of Timor but when they were ordered to surrender he and some of members of his unit decided to try to evade to the southside of the island with the intention of finding means to get to Australia. Apparently while crossing the interior of the island they were attacked by either Japanese troops or the local insurgents. He was shot in the stomach and as he was slowing their further escape down he convinced the other "escapees" to leave him behind. That is basically the last sighting of him. He was declared MIA and later KIA. My grandmother and her 5 children survived the war outside the camps and were repatriated to the Netherlands after the war.
I have very little further information about him but know that my grandmother went to visit one of the guys from his unit in Denver (USA) and that's where she found out about the escape story.
I'm interested in finding out more background on him (my grandfather), what unit he could have served in etc.
Also interested to see, on the off-chance, if there is anyone here who knows this story, maybe from a different perspective..

Evert.

Rising Sun*
12-29-2009, 07:20 AM
I am trying to find more information about the KNIL in general and more in specific anything relating to my grandfathere (E.M.W. Bopp). He was stationed in Dilli/Timor in 1942 as a 1st sergeant (sergeant 1ste klas) in the Infantry (infanterie) I have been unable to determine his exact unit but am working on this.

He probably wasn’t stationed in Dili. The western part of Timor was the Dutch part and the eastern part was Portuguese. Dili was the capital of the Portuguese part.

The remnants of an Australian force known as Sparrow Force crossed into Portuguese Timor with attached Dutch troops after the main part of Sparrow Force surrendered to the Japanese in 1942 after the Japanese invaded both parts of Timor.

It sounds like your grandfather might have been part of that Dutch force.

Wiki ain’t my favourite source but this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Timor#Dutch_Timor will give you some information about the Dutch forces under van Straten which crossed into Portuguese Timor. Odds are that your grandfather was in one of the units under van Straten.

You might be able to find more about your grandfather from Dutch sources on van Straten’s force or perhaps from Australian sources on the Australian units involved in Timor.

Evertb
12-29-2009, 07:59 AM
You could possibly be right as I am trying to piece together the story from the few available pieces of information.
Available records list August 11th 1942 as the date he was killed on but I have my doubts about the accuracy of that.
I've requested a copy of his service record hoping that this will provide some more clarity.

Evert.

Rising Sun*
12-29-2009, 08:28 AM
Available records list August 11th 1942 as the date he was killed on but I have my doubts about the accuracy of that.

That date fits with the Japanese counter-attacks against the remaining Allied forces in Timor, and particularly against the Dutch forces in the centre of the island.

Evertb
12-29-2009, 08:30 AM
That date fits with the Japanese counter-attacks against the remaining Allied forces in Timor, and particularly against the Dutch forces in the centre of the island.

That was the conclusion I had come to also...
You seem to have a wealth of knowledge on the subject :-)

Rising Sun*
12-29-2009, 08:50 AM
That was the conclusion I had come to also...
You seem to have a wealth of knowledge on the subject :-)

Nah, I know a bit about the Australian involvement and where to look on that, but I don't know anything about the Dutch involvement beyond what I've posted which is essentially related to the Australian involvement.

The Dutch tend to be overlooked in English-speaking histories of the war with Japan but they fought a good fight and continued to make a very useful air, naval and merchant naval contribution after they were defeated in the NEI. Especially in the early dangerous days in 1942-43 when their forces added critical resources to the Allied cause.

I assume that the Dutch would have some veterans' or other associations and or historical societies which could give you the information you're seeking.

I suspect that if you could read Dutch or could find someone who does you'd be able to find a lot more information on Dutch sites.

Evertb
12-29-2009, 09:05 AM
I'm born & bred Dutch but have been living in Ireland for a while now. I am sure that there are some veterans organisations but the trouble is finding the right ones and getting into contact with them.
Thanks for your help though, it's very much appreciated.

Evert.

P.S. What time is it in Australia at the moment? :-)

Rising Sun*
12-29-2009, 09:10 AM
P.S. What time is it in Australia at the moment? :-)

1.09 a.m, which should relate to whatever time stamp appears on this post.

It is approximately 20 years earlier in New Zealand, and about a century earlier in Tasmania which is not really part of Australia. :D

Evertb
12-29-2009, 09:12 AM
LOL, good one!

Rising Sun*
12-29-2009, 09:34 AM
It looks like I'm not as well informed as I thought.

There is a reference here http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/remembering1942/timor/transcript.asp to Dutch troops landing at Dili in December 1941, so your grandfather might indeed have been stationed there.

Brad Manera has left the AWM, but the AWM is usually very helpful to people who want information.

You might find that the Australia-Japan Research Project part of the AWM can help you. http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/

Evertb
07-25-2010, 01:50 PM
Found some old pictures dating back to the late 1930's. one has a scribble on the back referring to "15 battalion, 2nd company".
Will go do some research but if you have any info re this unit let me know please.

George Eller
08-18-2010, 12:57 PM
Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/_knil_army.html

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Territorial Command – Timor and Dependencies
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/tc_timor.html

Mobilized Order of Battle
Netherlands East Indies Army
Java
1st Military Department and Ist Division
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/01-afd.htm

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Java
2nd Military Department and IInd Division
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/02-afd.htm

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Java
3rd Military Department and IIIrd Division
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/03-afd.htm

Mobilized Order of Battle
Royal Netherlands East Indies Army
Java
Army Aviation
12 December 1941
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/016_netherlands/41-12-08/army_air.html

tankgeezer
08-18-2010, 04:28 PM
He lives!!!!

Ronnyguitar
01-30-2011, 12:45 PM
thx for the information !!

royal744
02-07-2011, 11:48 PM
The saddest thing about the Dutch experience in Indonesia is that they were unable to inspire the loyalty of the native Indonesian population. The Indos - or mixed Dutch/Indonesian/Chinese - population was much more loyal but few in number, comparatively. The British by contrast were able to avail themselves of hundreds of thousands of Indian troops who fought well and hard for them in North Africa and Burma and even served as occupation troops for a while in Indonesia after the war, although they did not like this service. In the Phillipines the locals infuriated the Japanese by remaining loyal to the Americans who had promised them independence after the war. There were by some accounts, roughly 100,000 guerrillas operating in the Phillipines when the Americans returned. A little told but interesting story concerns the continued success and determination of the Dutch u-boat (onderzee booten, or duikbooten) service in the Pacific during the war. I wish the Dutch had been more aware of the fact that despite their hundreds-of-years of colonization of Indonesia, they forged few lasting bonds with the Indonesian population. When the chips were down, they were betrayed at every turn.

royal744
07-30-2011, 02:44 PM
Generaal TerPoorten's son, Ari Terpoorten, his wife and his children - Ari Junior, Hein and Martinike - were life-long friends of mine/ours in Houston. The general's son and his family spent the war imprisoned in camps in Indonesia. Ari, the general's son, was an engineer who worked postwar for Brown and Root in Houston (now KBR) until he retired from the company. I'm not clear on what the General's son did during the war because he was of military age at the time. My parents would visit nearly every Sunday. Both my parents were of mixed Dutch-Indonesian descent (Indos). But my parents spent the war in Holland. They would speak Dutch and occasionally throw in a smattering of Malay words which they had all picked up in Indonesia. There were a lot of Dutch in Houston who came from Indonesia and who preferred the outrageous heat and humidity of that Texas city.

Clan
08-22-2011, 02:41 PM
Hi there,

I have in the Netherlands a similar topic going about the KNIL.

I will be posting some video's en photo's in the near future.

Clan
08-22-2011, 04:07 PM
The Uniform is from after 1942, before that time they wore the green ( Garoet ) you can see on the first page.

Clan
08-22-2011, 04:13 PM
These are some video's from YouTube:

Queensday parade 1941
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fro5Jw9Ztlw

Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger - Propagandafilm 1941
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUX34BYRXZg

Dutch East Indies ( Indonesia ) 1942 battle against Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWY7XMkXuFI

Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger - Propagandafilm 1942
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNIMPzoaUGo

Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger - In Australia 1943
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8OXCHq6CW8

gumalangi
01-14-2012, 01:02 AM
George,. you still there?

there is one unit that might interest you,. Legiun Mankunegaran,. established BY daendels,. Napoleon's general,.. and incorporated to KNIL soon after that.

Sunny Image
01-09-2013, 04:00 AM
wow, this threa is a great info for my collection of WW2, nice images !!!!!!!!

Rising Sun*
01-09-2013, 06:03 AM
Any truth in this?

I read recently in "Prisoners of the Japanese" by Gavan Daws that after WWII the Dutch government took the position that after the NEI surrendered the KNIL ceased to exist and that therefore the Dutch government had no responsibility to compensate those who suffered as POWs, although ultimately a settlement of sorts was reached many decades later.

Rising Sun*
01-09-2013, 06:08 AM
Separate point that comes out in Daws' book is that KNIL had by far the highest survival rate of Allied POWs, much of it attributable to their tropical experience and especially tropical medical experience which in many cases was ignored by English speaking Allied POW doctors with no tropical experience.

Daws also notes that the Japanese rated the Dutch as the least productive POW workers, which he suspects might have reflected a conscious policy by the Dutch to present themselves as inefficient so that they weren't expected to be as productive as other Allied prisoners and therefore weren't worked as hard.

Overall impression is that Dutch were the best equipped to survive as POWs, and did better than other Allied prisoners because of that.

gumalangi
01-09-2013, 11:29 AM
Separate point that comes out in Daws' book is that KNIL had by far the highest survival rate of Allied POWs, much of it attributable to their tropical experience and especially tropical medical experience which in many cases was ignored by English speaking Allied POW doctors with no tropical experience.

Daws also notes that the Japanese rated the Dutch as the least productive POW workers, which he suspects might have reflected a conscious policy by the Dutch to present themselves as inefficient so that they weren't expected to be as productive as other Allied prisoners and therefore weren't worked as hard.

Overall impression is that Dutch were the best equipped to survive as POWs, and did better than other Allied prisoners because of that.

I did post some times back, that my uncle was part of KNIL in northern celebes, they're local inhabitants, instead of surrendering to the Japanese, they simply blended to the forest.

KNIL recruited locals for their units and garrisoned them within their homes, so this also gained some respect from the local populations.

They will be sent away from their home only when reinforcement needed in some conflict areas.

Clan
07-06-2013, 04:28 PM
A docu about the history of the Royal Netherlands East Indies Army

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2RYcv-yPQY

The Colonial Reserve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlKTVVjA4-0&hd=1

The battle of Java 1942

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FScJKiU1jk4

The Aceh war 1873-1914

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WFPITMkIiQ&hd=1

Bas J.
07-22-2013, 06:45 AM
My great grandfather was a KNIL soldier. I've got great pictures of the fronts. A tank, armored cars in a village with on the background even a medical bay because you can see the redcross flag. But that will be posted at some later time.

royal744
07-25-2013, 10:10 AM
-Royal, do you remember which American cruiser was in the photo that your father took in Indonesia during the 1930's?

-

Sorry it took so long to get back to you - the ship my father photographed around 1934 in Indonesia was the USS Astoria. The Astoria is permanently berthed, sadly, on the sea floor off Savo Island.

Clan
07-29-2013, 11:45 AM
Facebook site with a lot of footage;

https://www.facebook.com/RoyalNetherlandsEastIndiesArmyKnil

Clan
07-29-2013, 11:46 AM
Battle of Palembang 1942;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY3qiYxSRZI

royal744
07-30-2013, 01:50 PM
My great grandfather was a KNIL soldier. I've got great pictures of the fronts. A tank, armored cars in a village with on the background even a medical bay because you can see the redcross flag. But that will be posted at some later time.

You should post these, Bas...