PDA

View Full Version : WHICH SMG? PPSH-41, THOMPSON, MP40, OR STEN?



Hosenfield
10-07-2005, 10:12 PM
if you had around 200 rounds for each gun, which one would you carry to combat in, forsay, the western front 1944? (ppsh-41s were brought from russia to france by the germans)

magazine sizex numbers of mags


ppsh-41 70x3

mp40 30x7

thompson 20x11

sten 30x7

FW-190 Pilot
10-07-2005, 10:31 PM
PPSH -41for sure, high power of fire rate, and can work in bad condition

Hosenfield
10-08-2005, 04:12 AM
I would probably bring the mp40. the firing rate is 400-450rpm, which is optimal for accuracy. Also, the mp40 is lighter most of the other weapons.

Iron Yeoman
10-08-2005, 05:20 AM
I definitely wouldn't chose the sten, had a habit of emptying itself if dropped! :shock: Although the MP40 is lightweight what matters, IMHO, with SMGs is the weight of fire you can put down. As the PPSH has a greater mag capacity and is easily servicable then i would chose that.

Hosenfield
10-08-2005, 05:31 AM
i've heard that the ppsh climbs like crazy due to its very fast rate of fire.

Mars
10-08-2005, 05:36 AM
MP 40 for sure.
Much easy to carry,to hide and more accurate.

Firefly
10-08-2005, 08:29 AM
I would have to go for the MP-40 as well, the bigger mag of the PPSh would just encourage me to spray away like crazy!

Charles
10-08-2005, 11:48 AM
Mp40 due to all facts stated above and it seems to be the easier one to handle.

Mechanized Warfare
10-09-2005, 01:51 AM
The Thompson because of its .45 caliber bullet. It had great knock down power. Many people say its inacurate, but any weapon can be acurate when used properly.

Hanz Lutz
10-09-2005, 05:27 AM
MP-40 its easy to carry ,and i like it. 8)

Cuts
10-09-2005, 07:02 AM
The Thompson because of its .45 caliber bullet. It had great knock down power. Many people say its inacurate, but any weapon can be acurate when used properly.

How do you work that one out ?

mike M.
10-09-2005, 11:03 AM
The Thompson I fired was acurate. :?

Hosenfield
10-09-2005, 02:36 PM
the thompson is supposed to have an effective range of 50m. The mp40 has an effective range of 100m.

the mp40 is probably better for general use. I know from a relative that if you clean it regularly and load 30 rounds in the magazine, it is absolutely reliable.
however, if i need to clear a house at point blank ranges, i would go for the thompson.

bas
10-09-2005, 03:35 PM
the thompson is supposed to have an effective range of 50m. The mp40 has an effective range of 100m.



Bollocks, both have an effective range of about 200m after that it becomes too hard to reliably hit the target (but the bullet will still do the damage if it hits).

DerMann
10-09-2005, 03:36 PM
I find it hard to believe that a 9mm round has a greater range than that of a .45 ACP round. I've fired a Thompson, and I love it. It is very accurate and controllable. The .45 round also has a much greater stopping power than a 9mm round.

Hosenfield
10-09-2005, 04:52 PM
for your information

http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg33-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg29-e.htm

mp40

Caliber: 9x19mm Luger/Para

Effective range: ca. 100 meters



thompson

.45ACP
~ 50 meters

bas
10-09-2005, 05:46 PM
Hosenfield, not everything on the web is 100% correct.

Yes the world.guns.ru site is a popular reference and for Russian guns it is fantastic since the owner is Russian and has local sources at his disposal. But people make mistakes and this is one.

A 1911A1 pistol has an effective range is about 50m, only because of the training required to shoot accuratly past that range with a handgun. Many competent pistol shooters will be able to hit a man sized target at 100m with a .45 pistol.

So you want me to believe that a shouldered automatic weapon with a longer barrel can't do the same? Yeah right!

Man of Stoat
10-10-2005, 10:53 AM
One of the things that has to be remembered is that all of these weapons fire from an open bolt. The MP40 has a particularly heavy bolt and when the trigger is released, the weapon moves considerably due to the movement of the bolt.

I've not fired any of these live, but I've handled and dry fired all of them and thus have an idea about how much movement there is before the round goes bang. The MP40 was probably the worst offender.

Sturmtruppen
10-10-2005, 12:12 PM
MP40 ,accuracy,rate of fire,more confortable than other weapons,it doesn't get out off countrol like the PPSh.
everything that you need in the world war 2 is this and an attractive women made in the soviet union.

StalingradK
10-10-2005, 01:04 PM
Thompson! .45 APC bullets... MWAHHAHAHA :twisted: Great Accuracy, looks cooler than MP40 :P

DerMann
10-10-2005, 01:58 PM
Contrary to popular belief, the Thompson does not have bad recoil or muzzle climb. The length and weight of the gun help compensate for it, and there's even less if you have the Cutts compensator on it.

Twitch1
10-10-2005, 02:39 PM
I'd probably go for the MP-40 with the Thompson a a close 2nd due to ascendencey of stopping power of the .45 ACP over the 9mm. 200 rounds of 9 mm weighs a tad less too. Everything you gotta strap on drags you down. We could carry about double the number of 5.56 rounds than Charlie could for the same weight. I do not consider high cyclic rate a benifit on full auto as it only allows untrained shooters to burn through more ammo.http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb323.gif

bas
10-10-2005, 03:00 PM
Contrary to popular belief, the Thompson does not have bad recoil or muzzle climb. The length and weight of the gun help compensate for it, and there's even less if you have the Cutts compensator on it.

None of the SMGs mentioned have bad recoil or muzzle climb. Even the PPSh.

Stoat, I can't remember what dry firing the thompson was like, but I personally feel that the MP-40 and PPSh-41 are about on par for bolt weight.

DerMann
10-10-2005, 04:35 PM
I know that none of them have bad recoil, but still people will say that they do have bad recoil and muzzle climb. That's why I'm saying it

Cuts
10-10-2005, 08:55 PM
MP40 ,accuracy,rate of fire,more confortable than other weapons,it doesn't get out off countrol like the PPSh.
everything that you need in the world war 2 is this and an attractive women made in the soviet union.
I cannot say for certain if you have fired any of the wpns mentioned Erwin, though I doubt it, however I know that I have.

One can compare any folding metal butt against a wooden one as to sleeping in a real bed contra a camp cot - yes it can be done but not as comfortably.

For controllability under full-auto the Thompson will ALWAYS win. It's heavier than a heavy thing and even a raw recruit would have no problems keeping the impacts on tgt.
A bugger to carry around with you mind.

Bas, the PPSh and MP40 are similar but the heft of the red wpn makes the bolt weight shift feel less.
Besides, we're only talking SMGs here so anyone with experience of rifle or intermediate rds on R&R will have no problem with their alleged climb.

bas
10-10-2005, 10:53 PM
Bas, the PPSh and MP40 are similar but the heft of the red wpn makes the bolt weight shift feel less.


I'm going to have to pull them out of the cupboard and have a go.. Been a while since I've dry fired either of mine. The MP-40 bolt weight is less than the PPSh, but its got that heafty telescoping firing pin/spring to compensate.

Twitch1
10-11-2005, 10:10 AM
As for Thompson recoil muzzle climb. I've talked to people that have used them in combat and a favorite trick of the the guys in the Pacific was to loop the strap around the neck and position the weapon muzzle so that it kinda hangs on the side at the front attachment. Why? Because they then had a sweep weapon. When the trigger was depressed the "little bit of a climb" translated into sideways motion with little assistance from the shooter.
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb323.gif

arhob1
11-04-2005, 08:46 PM
Hosenfield wrote:



i've heard that the ppsh climbs like crazy due to its very fast rate of fire.

The videos here (posted before) don't show too much climb with the PPSH - http://www.ppsh41.com/mpg.html

I would definitely go for the PPSH. The big mag would keep the other guys head down for longer.

See also - http://www.ppsh41.com/

IronFist
11-07-2005, 09:57 PM
MP40 for sure, better range/accuracy. Lifeweight and is easy to use due to its simple mechanism.

Cuts
11-08-2005, 06:18 AM
MP40 for sure, better range/accuracy. Lifeweight and is easy to use due to its simple mechanism.

Where do you get your gen from IF ?

The MP40 is lighter only than the M1 which is an anchor, and the Geman mech is patently more complex than a straight blowback.

Have you fired these wpns ?

Man of Stoat
11-08-2005, 03:26 PM
Following on from Cuts' statement (puts anorak on), courtesy of Messers Smith and Smith,

Sten Mk 2:
Barrel Length 7.75 in.
Weight 6.62 lbs.

MP40
Barrel Length 9.9 in.
Weight 8.87 lbs.

Thompson
Barrel Length 10.5 in.
Weight 10.45 lbs.

PPSH
Barrel Length 10.63 in.
Weight 9.26 lbs. (with box mag) 11.99 lbs. (with drum mag)

I can tell you that the Thompson is heavier than a heavy thing.

As a further note, many people around here shoot 9mm pistol caliber carbines (Beretta CX4 Storm and MP5), and nobody has managed to get acceptable accuracy beyond 50m. And this is with modern weapons firing from closed bolts. They've tried heavy bullets, light bullets, fast loads, light loads, but nothing seems to work properly beyond 50m. Firing from an open bolt, which pretty much all WW2 era SMGs do, only severely decreases the accuracy.