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Unknown Soldier
09-24-2005, 12:33 PM
Khatyn was a small Byelorussian village of 26 households protected against the wind by white birch-trees and tall pines. It was neat and cosy with its shadoof wells and thick lilac bushes in the front gardens.

The village men tilled the land and reaped the meadow grass. Women looked after the children and milked the cows. The people held wedding parties and mourned the dead. Outside the village young people made traditional wreaths and gathered mushrooms…

On March 22, 1943, Khatyn was no more. There was no more sunshine on the window-panes, no more squeaking wickets opening outside, no more white handtowels in the corners of the houses, no more tables and benches where peasants used to talk, no more wood-piles, fences and bee-homes. 149 Khatyn people were exterminated, 75 children among them. A punitive fascist detachment headed by colonel Oscar Dirlewanger burned down everything in a blind belief that together with the village inhabitants and its chroniclers the fire will kill Khatyn's future as well. Looking at the charred ruins of the village the Nazi butchers must have been certain that nothing would ever grow in the place, neither corn nor flower. That no one would ever remember the names of Kaminsky, Zhelobkovich, Yaskevich, Iotko whose ashes were now blown by the wind. But history has taught all sorts of invaders and misanthropists a good lesson - the names of the Khatyn peasants engraved in bronze have become known to millions of people. They sparkle from the faraway past and visitors from numerous countries of the world bow low to them.

And if before their native village was hard to find even on local maps, today it is known all over the world and its very name is associated with the whole of Byelorussia.

Although burnt down and exterminated Khatyn did not die. Its grass has grown again. Its larks have returned. The springs have worked their way up. 26 house frames have been installed where the houses once stood. But now, instead of pine logs, gray concrete was used to make the frames. Wells were filled with water right in the places where they had stood before the 22nd of March, 1943. Paths were made in the same places. But none of the 149 voices was ever heard again and no charred chimney ever let out smoke.

186 Byelorussian villages were burned down together with their population by the Hitlerites and were never revived. There was no one to put them back to life, to build new houses and plant gardens. People brought handfuls of sand and cinder to put them into the urns of the world/s only cemetery of villages at the Khatyn Memorial.

Take a walk along its mournful aisles and read the names of villages. They do sound very poetic and peaceful - Korenevo… Paporotnoye… Ustye… Zadobriye… Murogi… Rallya… Smuga… Bratki… Zelyony Gay… Bortnoye… Veselovo… Mai… Dolgoye Polye… Zakrinichye… Lubcha… People in these villages were burnt alive only because they loved freedom and their Motherland, believed in Soviet power which gave them the right to human dignity and well-being.

209 towns and townships, 9,200 villages were razed to the ground by the fascists in Byelorussia. 2,230,000 people (every fourth) were killed in the Republic.

Three young birches rustle joyfully in the wind on the mourning pedestal of black marble. At the spot where the fourth tree should grow crimson eternal flames go up to the sky. The eternal ineradicable life neighbours in fraternal accord with the immortal, bitter memory.

There are few places in the world where silence would be so thoughtful and tense as it is in Khatyn. One can only hear footsteps on the concrete paths, the gentle toll of the bells, the subdued human voices and restrained sobbing...

PzKpfw VI Tiger
09-24-2005, 12:36 PM
Interesting..... Welcome by the way Unknown Soldier! I only ask that you give credit to sources while copying and pasting. Otherwise - Welcome and good luck on the forums! :D

Hosenfield
09-24-2005, 01:48 PM
welcome! :lol:

Unknown Soldier
09-25-2005, 12:01 PM
I only ask that you give credit to sources while copying and pasting. Otherwise - Welcome and good luck on the forums!
http://www.khatyn.by

welcome!
Hosenfield, PzKpfw VI Tiger - thanks! :D

Unknown Soldier
09-25-2005, 12:09 PM
The main plan "OST" plan was elaborated still in 1940. It had something to do with one of the main objectives of the German leaders, i.e. with capturing the vital space for the third Reich's flourishing. So, clearing "the vital space" from "excessive" local population was supposed to be done. Therefore the long-term concept of making a war in the East, the so-called war of annihilation, followed from this idea. But a mere victory in the East could not satisfy fascists. They wanted to destroy the army, the country and the whole nation.

"We must exterminate population. It is our mission if we want to protect Germans. I have the right to annihilate millions of people of the lowest race who reproduce like worms..." - Hitler used to announce.

On March 30, 1941 during the Wehrmacht high command meeting Hitler pointed at the fact that the war against the Soviet Union would be a "war of annihilation", that this war "will differ considerably from the war in the West. In the East cruelty is too mellow for the future". In conformity with the plan "OST", 120 - 140 million people were supposed to be annihilated in the Soviet Union and in Poland.

http://www.khatyn.by/en/genocide/

Hosenfield
09-25-2005, 04:18 PM
it is estimated that 17 million civilians were exterminated in russia by german forces.

Firefly
09-26-2005, 04:30 AM
A question:

Is this the same Khatyn where 5000 Polish officers bodies were found in 1943?

Unknown Soldier
09-26-2005, 09:11 AM
Is this the same Khatyn where 5000 Polish officers bodies were found in 1943?
An answer:
No, that was Katyn. :wink:

it is estimated that 17 million civilians were exterminated in russia by german forces.
27 millions by the way.
There's no Russian family which would have no relatives who had been lost in Great Patriotic War.

Dani
09-26-2005, 10:35 AM
http://www.belarus-misc.org/history/chatyn.htm

Chatyn known as Khatyn (in Belarus).

Also in the same line of horrors could be place also Lidice (a Czech village eradicated by Hitler after Heydrich's assasination):

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/h-lidice.htm

Off-topic: Unknown soldier, why are you still using the old Soviet name for WW2 - "Great Patriotic War"? If you feel offended by my question, please ignore it.

Dani
09-26-2005, 10:43 AM
Is this the same Khatyn where 5000 Polish officers bodies were found in 1943?
An answer:
No, that was Katyn. :wink:


And on Katyn the Red Army was the killer!!!
http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/winter99-00/art6.html

Quoted from above:
One of the earliest--and certainly the most infamous--mass shootings of prisoners of war during World War II did not occur in the heat of battle but was a cold-blooded act of political murder. The victims were Polish officers, soldiers, and civilians captured by the Red Army after it invaded eastern Poland in September 1939. Strictly speaking, even the Polish servicemen were not POWs. The USSR had not declared war, and the Polish commander in chief had ordered his troops not to engage Soviet forces. But there was little the Poles could do.

Those who died at Katyn included an admiral, two generals, 24 colonels, 79 lieutenant colonels, 258 majors, 654 captains, 17 naval captains, 3,420 NCOs, seven chaplains, three landowners, a prince, 43 officials, 85 privates, and 131 refugees. Also among the dead were 20 university professors; 300 physicians; several hundred lawyers, engineers, and teachers; and more than 100 writers and journalists as well as about 200 pilots.

http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/winter99-00/pg62.gif
Memorandum on NKVD letterhead from L. Beria to "Comrade Stalin" proposing to execute captured Polish officers, soldiers, and other prisoners by shooting. Stalin's handwritten signature appears on top, followed by signatures of Politburo members K. Voroshilov, V. Molotov, and A. Mikoyan. Signatures in left margin are M. Kalinin and L. Kaganovich, both favoring execution

I know it is off-topic but history must be known and we must accept it as it was!!!

Unknown Soldier
09-26-2005, 11:44 AM
Off-topic: Unknown soldier, why are you still using the old Soviet name for WW2 - "Great Patriotic War"? If you feel offended by my question, please ignore it.
Because for Russians it is the Great Patriotic War.
Because if the Nazi would won there would be no Russians.
Because any other country had not sufferred such damage as Russia had.

Unknown Soldier
09-26-2005, 12:38 PM
Katyn, Katyn wood - a place of mass execution and burial places of the Polish officers who have got in captivity to Red army in 1939, in 1941 appeared in hands of German wermacht and killed by the German


In 1943 Hebbels used a mass burial place in the propaganda purposes against the Soviet Union, to not admit delivery of the German soldiers in captivity and to involve the not German peoples of Western Europe to the war. On occupied by Germans Smolensk Area was arranged indicative exhumation of corpses of the Polish officers with attraction in quality of "witnesses" - the representatives of the dependent states and prisoner of war the Englishmen and Americans. Simultaneously press of dependent on Germany part of Europe lifted coordinated propaganda campaign, which was supported also by the Polish government in exile (in London), despite lacking an opportunity for independent investigation on occupied by the German armies territory and on diligence of the Englishmen, then allies of USSR,to keep the Poles from hasty and unreasonable conclusions.

In 1944 in Katyn the Soviet Commission on investigation of German evil deeds worked. In a course of exhumation, survey of the material proofs and opening of corpses was established, that the executions were made by the Nazi not earlier then 1941, when they just occupied this area of Smolensk.

Katyn tradegy was used against the USSR in a course of "the cold war".

With new force it began to be untwisted with arrival to authority in USSR of Gorbachev,and especially on the eve of the introduction of Poland in NATO. Tonns of not subject to disclosure investigation materials were published in a seal and are submitted in electronic MASS-MEDIAS, but "the buisness" was not transferred in court.

Why?

The falsification of the documents and lies witnesses could not overcome facts in issue, which have emerged even at German "investigation" of business. Then and later, Soviet commission and representatives of the Polish party was established, that the Polish officers were shot by the German weapon and ammunition, and the hands of executed men were communicated by a German paper cord.

One of the main reasons of it was not transferred in court is interfering to prove fault of the Soviet Union, - absence any of made motive at the Soviet party for such punishment...

Firefly
09-26-2005, 12:43 PM
I have no objections to the use of the Term Great Patriotic War.

I abhor any and all war crimes, by any forces.

Although this is a good piece of ww2 history and should not be shied away from discussing, I would ask why the Unknown Soldier pasted it? What did you want to discuss about it?

Here is a good link too:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1791/

Unknown Soldier
09-26-2005, 01:16 PM
http://www.hrono.ru/sobyt/1900sob/1941katyn.html

Sorry, no english variance.
Try the translators (if You don't know Russian, sure) :wink:

Firefly
09-26-2005, 01:51 PM
You didnt answer my question. What was the point of the original post? Without a discussion topic, I find it difficult to discuss!

pdf27
09-26-2005, 03:40 PM
Because any other country had not sufferred such damage as Russia had.
IIRC in terms of population killed and infrastructure destroyed Poland fared even worse than Russia.

Firefly
09-26-2005, 04:37 PM
I agree, Poland got shafted by all 3 sides, Britain and France went to war for Poland, did nothing to help them. The Russians helped invade Poland, then invaded again in 1944, the Nazis, well no need to explain about them, and then again at the end of the war the US also signed away Poland.

Couldnt have been nice to be a Pole at all!

Dani
09-27-2005, 05:22 AM
Katyn tradegy was used against the USSR in a course of "the cold war".

With new force it began to be untwisted with arrival to authority in USSR of Gorbachev,and especially on the eve of the introduction of Poland in NATO. Tonns of not subject to disclosure investigation materials were published in a seal and are submitted in electronic MASS-MEDIAS, but "the buisness" was not transferred in court.

Why?

The falsification of the documents and lies witnesses could not overcome facts in issue, which have emerged even at German "investigation" of business. Then and later, Soviet commission and representatives of the Polish party was established, that the Polish officers were shot by the German weapon and ammunition, and the hands of executed men were communicated by a German paper cord.

One of the main reasons of it was not transferred in court is interfering to prove fault of the Soviet Union, - absence any of made motive at the Soviet party for such punishment...

Mate let's take the war as it was (with all its crimes):

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1049114089000

http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/chronology/1939-1941/1940/chronology_1940_4.html

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9044867?&query=katyn&ct=

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/episodes/01/spotlight/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_Massacre

Quoted: In 1989 Soviet scholars revealed that Joseph Stalin had indeed ordered the massacre, and in 1990 Mikhail Gorbachev admitted that the NKVD had executed the Poles, confirmed two other burial sites similar to the site at Katyń: Mednoje and Pyatikhatki. In 1992 the Russian officials released top-secret documents from the sealed package no. 1. Among them was Lavrenty Beria's March 1940 proposal to shoot 25,700 Poles from Kozelsk, Ostashkov and Starobels camps, and from certain prisons of Western Ukraine and Belarus with the signature of Stalin (among others); an excerpt from the Politburo shooting order of March 5 1940; and Aleksandr Shelepin's March 3, 1959 note to Nikita Khrushchev, with information about the execution of 21,857 Poles and with the proposal to destroy their personal files

Also quoted: Russian Chief Military Prosecutor Alexander Savenkov declared that the massacre was not a genocide - a war crime - or a crime against humanity and that there is absolutely no basis to talk about this in judicial terms. Despite earlier declarations, 116 out of 183 volumes of files gathered during the Russian investigation, as well as the decision to put an end to it, were classified. [My note: Why?? Bothering truth??]
Because of that, the Polish Institute of National Remembrance has decided to open its own probe. Prosecution team head Leon Kieres said they would try to identify those involved in ordering and carrying out the killings. In addition, on March 22, 2005, the Polish Sejm unanimously passed an act, requesting the Russian archives to be declassified. The Sejm also requested Russia to classify the Katyń massacre as genocide.
End quote.

Mate when a whole Parliament (see my last emboldment) requested that, you still believe in Soviet propaganda????? Or you are a nostalgic communist?

Firefly
09-27-2005, 07:25 AM
Well researched and well written Dani. I also totally agree with you as well.