Pearl Harbor

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

Interesting photo I found on Wikipedia, it's an aerial shot from a Jap plane looking east over Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7th, 1941. If you look closely you can see the battleship row and some Japanese Zeros flying around madly.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c7/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor_Japanese_planes_view.jpg

[Fallschirmjager]

Kowabunga!

[Hanz Lutz]

Nice picture Tiger .

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

Thanks Clauss, any other comments?

[Hanz Lutz]

Do you maybe know whats this ,on picture white buildings is that military or civil objects,

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

You know, unfortunately, I don't as of now, it was an interesting pic on Wikipedia, I'd research it if I had the time, but it would take awhile (probably) and because of my school work, I unfortunately dont have that time. :cry:

[Firefly]

Ah Pearl harbour. Poor Japs, if only they could have known. Still I dont suppose it would have affected the ultimate outcome.

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

Ah Pearl harbour. Poor Japs, if only they could have known. Still I dont suppose it would have affected the ultimate outcome.

I doubt it, if they had destroyed American Aircraft Carriers, than it possibly could have had an affect.

[Firefly]

Ah Pearl harbour. Poor Japs, if only they could have known. Still I dont suppose it would have affected the ultimate outcome.

I doubt it, if they had destroyed American Aircraft Carriers, than it possibly could have had an affect.

Thats what I said isnt it?

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

I just added a bit about if they destroyed any aircraft carriers it could have changed the course of the war, but you said initially it didn't have much effect because they only targeted battle ships and not subs or aircraft carriers.

[Firefly]

I just added a bit about if they destroyed any aircraft carriers it could have changed the course of the war, but you said initially it didn't have much effect because they only targeted battle ships and not subs or aircraft carriers.

No I said this

Ah Pearl harbour. Poor Japs, if only they could have known. Still I dont suppose it would have affected the ultimate outcome.

Nothing else about anything. I agree with you.

[ww2fanatic1944]

i doubt that the US would have attacked japan, if they didnt attack pearl harbor...even though they were part of the axis.

[Firefly]

i doubt that the US would have attacked japan, if they didnt attack pearl harbor...even though they were part of the axis.

Er am I mad here? I have never said anything to the contrary.

Im afraid you guys are making things up! Interesting thread, based on supposition and mis-interpertation I suspect.

[Man of Stoat]

i doubt that the US would have attacked japan, if they didnt attack pearl harbor...even though they were part of the axis.

I know that they wouldn't have attacked Japan - the US was neutral until Pearl Harbour!

[1000ydstare]

Pearl Harbour only had battleships though, didn't it?

The fleet was all out.

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

Pearl Harbour only had battleships though, didn't it?

The fleet was all out.

Yes, the US Navy only had their battleships though, the aircraft carriers weren't docked.

[Fallschirmjager]

Too bad eh.. ;D

[Commando Jordovski]

What do you think would of happened to the War if the Japanese didn't attack the Americans.

Of course if the Germans HAD successfully conquered europe and onto other places then of course the usa would be drawn into the war sometime, but perhaps if the japanese didn't attack usa then the germans might of created the atomic bomb aswell before the usa tested it on hiroshima.

[Firefly]

What do you think would of happened to the War if the Japanese didn't attack the Americans.

Of course if the Germans HAD successfully conquered europe and onto other places then of course the usa would be drawn into the war sometime, but perhaps if the japanese didn't attack usa then the germans might of created the atomic bomb aswell before the usa tested it on hiroshima.


Lets not make the Pearl harbour thread another what if Germay got the Bomb thread.

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

What do you think would of happened to the War if the Japanese didn't attack the Americans.

Of course if the Germans HAD successfully conquered europe and onto other places then of course the usa would be drawn into the war sometime, but perhaps if the japanese didn't attack usa then the germans might of created the atomic bomb aswell before the usa tested it on hiroshima.


Lets not make the Pearl harbour thread another what if Germay got the Bomb thread.

lol :lol: Anyway though, Commando Jordovski, sooner or later we probably would have gotten involved in the war.... It may have been just soon enough or too late, but we'd have gotten in there sometime.... :shock:

[Hiddenrug]

You really have to feel sorry for all the sailors from the asrizona. 1 bomb from a mitsubishi went down one of the funnels and keilled est. 1100 men.

Do any of you know about the incident at Darwin.

[Cuts]

I take it you don't man Cyclone Tracy in '74 ?
:wink:

[Hiddenrug]

No I mean when the japanese attacked it.

[Cuts]

That must count as an accidental wah.
:D

[Cuts]

...

Do any of you know about the incident at Darwin.

I heard the following excerpt about Darwin which came from a Northern Territories tourism book :

"Before the 1940s it was a slow, sleepy, tropical town resting on a beautiful harbour. During the war, when Darwin was bombed, it's population exploded."

It just goes to prove that people should always proof read prior to posting, or in this case printing.

[Hiddenrug]

That must count as an accidental wah

Foloowing is an excerpt out of the book DIGGERS, The Australian Army,Navy,Air force through 11 wars.

- Mainland Australia came under direct attack on the 19th February when the Japanese Navy's 1st Carrier Fleet commanded by Admiral Chuichi Nagumo, using four aircraft carriers which had attacked Pearl Harbor, now mounted a massive air raid on Darwin, using 188 carrier planes. Another 54 land-based aircraft from Kendari in Celebes and Ambon joined the attack later the same day. The Japanese were now fully into the campaign to conquer Java and saw Darwin as a potential threat to the campaign.

That cuts prove that the attack on Darwin was NOT an accidental wah :!:

[Cuts]

That must count as an accidental wah

Foloowing is an excerpt out of the book DIGGERS, The Australian Army,Navy,Air force through 11 wars.

- Mainland Australia came under direct attack on the 19th February when the Japanese Navy's 1st Carrier Fleet commanded by Admiral Chuichi Nagumo, using four aircraft carriers which had attacked Pearl Harbor, now mounted a massive air raid on Darwin, using 188 carrier planes. Another 54 land-based aircraft from Kendari in Celebes and Ambon joined the attack later the same day. The Japanese were now fully into the campaign to conquer Java and saw Darwin as a potential threat to the campaign.

That cuts prove that the attack on Darwin was NOT an accidental wah :!:

And that post Hiddenrug proves that you bear a striking similarity to Norville 'Shaggy' Rogers without his canine sidekick...

:lol: :lol:

[Hiddenrug]

Who the hell is that mate?!?!?

[Twitch1]

It is curious to ponder the alternatives since if there'd never been an attack at Pearl the anti-war and isolationists were very powerful in the US. A small nudge of fate could have kept the US out of the conflict to the point where it would have been too late to make a difference.
http://www.animationlibrary.com/Animation11/Transportation/Planes/p38.gif

[Lemuel]

Do any of you know about the incident at Darwin.

there is some rare colour film taken in Darwin during one of the bombing raids

[Cuts]

Today being the anniversary of the unprovoked attackon Pearl Harbour, I suggest that everyone takes a minute or two to think about those men and women who died while serving in a peacetime navy, and all those who made the supreme sacrifice freeing the world from some very evil people.

[Firefly]

There are a lot of causes and reasons as to why the attack was made, but today isnt the day to debate them I think. Thoughts go to the servicemen lost on this day.

[temujin77]

Today being the anniversary of the unprovoked attackon Pearl Harbour, I suggest that everyone takes a minute or two to think about those men and women who died while serving in a peacetime navy, and all those who made the supreme sacrifice freeing the world from some very evil people.

"Unprovoked" is a word FDR used for his political machine. :)

[StalingradK]

Lol, thanks Firefly, forgot their was a Pearl Harbor topic started... Never check the Japanese threads.

Today, December 7th, the Anniversary of Pearl Harbor, this brought the United States into the war effort against the Japanese, and shortly after, the Germans. Just give a minute or two of your time to honor the fallen soldiers stationed at the Harbor, and the Japanese airman that died during the "battle", they may still seem like bastards to us, but they were just serving their country.

w00t

[Twitch1]

At any rate I've always found it odd why people are so upset in retrospect that the attack on Pearl was a "sneak attack?" Why would anyone ring up the enemy and say when and where they're coming? :?:

[Domobranec]

Before 20. century it was very common to alarm the enemy before attack. It was considered as "fair play", the act of honor.

[PLT.SGT.BAKER]

besides a pair of radar operaters spotted the jap fleet first and called it in and was suspected as a group of B-17's, so if they knew it was the jap fleet it could've made a difference and send in some pursuiters

[temujin77]

Pearl Harbor was not supposed to be a surprise attack. FDR focused on that fact in order to enrage the generally isolationist Americans so that they will support a decision to go into war for the long haul. US had long knew that the situation with Japan would one day lead into war, the only thing was that American intelligence was so terrible in those days that they believed that Japan would not gather enough strength to challenge the US at least until spring of 1942 or later. Nevertheless, US was already starting to prepare for a war with Germany and Japan. The attack was also not supposed to be a surprise attack. The declaration of war was supposed to be delivered to the State Department 30 minutes before the attack, but decryption problems prevented the on-time delivery by the two Japanese special envoys Kichisaburo Nomura and Saburo Kurusu.

"Unprovoked" was an incorrect word to use to describe the attack. The last major event that led to the Japanese attack on US, British, and Dutch territories in the Pacific was due to the US-Britain led boycott of oil on Japan. Dependent on oil imports to continue its war against China, Japan had no choice but to take oil on her on initiative in order to maintain the war machine.

I'm not saying this justifies the attack on Pearl Harbor in any way... just saying that many of the western views on this attack today are very much so the version that American propaganda machine in 1941 wants you to believe.

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

Let us stop and remember all the victims of Pearl Harbor, especially the 1,177 servicemen that still lie entombed inside the hull of the USS Arizona. :cry:

[Nickdfresh]

War was inevitable in the Far East. The US and Japanese were both preparing for it, and there was in fact a Pacific cold-war going on between the US and Japan. The US was in fact expecting some form of attack, not just at our main Naval facility at Pearl Harbor...

Gen. George C. Marshall said, “hostile action [is] possible at any moment. If hostility cannot, repeat cannot, be avoided the United States desires that Japan commit the first overt act” in late November of 1941...

[Firefly]

Whatever way you look at it the US especially, but also the UK, squeezed that Japanese into a very tight box. There were very many in Japan that did not want a war either as well as an alliance with a power on the other side of the Globe.

[Cuts]

Whatever way you look at it the US especially, but also the UK, squeezed that Japanese into a very tight box.

Wish someone would do that to me.

[Nickdfresh]

Whatever way you look at it the US especially, but also the UK, squeezed that Japanese into a very tight box. There were very many in Japan that did not want a war either as well as an alliance with a power on the other side of the Globe.

But they were not in power, and I think Japan and the US were on an inevitable collision course perhaps going back to the mid-1800s, when US colonists inhabited Chi Chi Jima, Iwo Jima's sister island... (from "Flyboys")

I'm not saying the US, or the Commonwealth, were innocent here, but with Japanese aggression in CHINA, there was no hope for peace; and Japaese were practising their own version of Manifest Destiny...

[Firefly]

Well. The US supplied all of the Jaanese oil and US scrap metal was essential to Japans economy. The US could have controlled the situation better.

Many in the Japanese Government and Military did not want to go to war with the US. Yamamato stated this so strongly that he had to be sent to sea in case he was assasinated.

So not every Japanese was a raving warmonger I don't think. Mixed signals by both parties here in my opinion caused the conflict.