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Eagle
08-11-2005, 11:28 PM
When the II World war exploded, a lot of argentinians, descendant from the United Kingdom did the impossible in order to defend the allied. More than 500 pilots movilized themselves to the Royal Air Force, re-creating the 164 squadron, with the code FIRMES VOLAMOS (written in spanish), in english STEADY WE FLY.

1942
April the 6th was the date of the first flights, with Supermarine Spitfires Mk5, with the main mission of Hunting, the most of the time in Peterhead.

http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/articulos/164/164spitfire.jpg

1943
The Argentine-British squadron was reequiped with Hurricanes, and it left the mission of hunting to dedicate to the atack, mobilized to Midle Wallop.
The squadron did that year a lot of succes missions, like ship atacks or coast atacks.

1944
The squadron received new planes, the Typhoons. With this planes the group took part in the historical day of June 6th. The Argentine-British, mobilized to Furtington, atacked with rockets and cannon fire to the german defenses in Normandy.

http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/articulos/164/164typhoon.jpg

The 164 squadron was moved to an ALG (Advanced Landing Ground) in France, realizing missions of Close Air Support (CAS) against german armoured units.
Then continued with the CAS in all over west Europe, in France, Holland and Belgium.


1945
In January was consolidated the squadron with a base in occuped german territory. Since January until June, the Argentine-British squadron continued with the atacks to the german positions.

1946
The Argentine-British squadron was reequiped with Supermarin Spitfires Mk9, and a few month later was diluted.

It is known that the Argentinians who fought with the british were 554, and at least 122 died in the battlefield. Respet them, and give up honors to them.

http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/articulos/164/tapagrande.jpg
Images of: Gabriel Miranda Na&#243;n (hangardigital)

(PD: Forgive my so bad english)

Commando Jordovski
08-12-2005, 02:24 AM
Your english is not bad, i can easisly understand it.
I never knew that the Argentinians had anything to do with WW2, so do you know if they had alot of expirience flying planes?

By the way, welcome to the site mate, and if you need any help with anything your welcome to ask me. :wink:

1000ydstare
08-12-2005, 02:39 AM
good post eagle.

I've learnt something.

I knew Poles, French, Americans even in some cases Germans flew with RAF but not Argies.

Just watch out for your signaure mate.

1000ydstare
08-12-2005, 02:47 AM
Have you any links for the above Eagle. Wouldn't mind a look.



1000ydstare

1000ydstare
08-12-2005, 02:48 AM
good post eagle.

I've learnt something.

I knew Poles, French, Americans even in some cases Germans flew with RAF but not Argies.

Just watch out for your signaure mate.

Hanz Lutz
08-12-2005, 09:12 AM
Nice posts and picture eagle ,welcome. :wink:

Cuts
08-12-2005, 10:11 AM
Welcome to the site Eagle, and congratulations on a very interesting post.


Try these 1000:

This one is in Spanish so you'll have to brush up your linguistic skills. (Although the rumour says that you are a cunning one.)
http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/164.html

This is a British press release, again on an Argentinian site.
http://www.firmesvolamos.com.ar/prensa/ITNew-Italy.php

You missed meeting some of them last April:
http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=143195

This lists where they were based:
http://www.rafcommands.currantbun.com/Fighter/164F.html

Here you'll find a small section of 164's Op Diary at Airstrip B-91 in the Netherlands during Mar-Apr 45.
http://home-2.worldonline.nl/~cb008074/airstripb91.htm

Here's one by the Anglo-Argentine Soc.:
http://www.angloarg.dircon.co.uk/aasevents.htm
A couple of 164 vets may well be there.


Not exactly 164 Sqn, but has WWII connections:
http://212.58.240.132/1/hi/uk/4425035.stm

I read a book which had a fair bit about the Sqn some years ago but cannot for the life of me remember the title.

Eagle
08-12-2005, 02:00 PM
Thanks for the welcome to all.

Commando, oficially, Argentina didn't take part in the Second World War, but the pilots were people who had knowledges of flying, here in Argentina.

1000, the page which really helped me was www.hangardigital.com.ar
Search to FIRMES VOLAMOS.
And, please... we are Argentinians, not Argies. Please call us like Argentinians.

Saludes.

Dani
08-12-2005, 02:01 PM
Eagle, please replace your signature.

1000ydstare
08-12-2005, 02:07 PM
Cheers cuts and eagle.

I'll look in to these a bit deeper over the weekend

Sturmtruppen
08-12-2005, 02:08 PM
we are not argies.

we are great.
why they fought in the raf!!!!.

if they were intelligent they should fight on the american air force instead.

Eagle
08-12-2005, 02:09 PM
As you want Dani, but I think I am not offending to anybody. It's only the Malvinas islands map and a part of the Malvinas March.

I don't see the point of the necessity of change my signature.

Dani
08-12-2005, 02:19 PM
If you'll read the warning thread you'll see that it was a little bit hot.

I asked anybody to replace the signatures that might be considered offensive.

If no one finds your sig and avatar as offensive, fine by me.
Gracias! :wink:
And welcome to the forum!

Bladensburg
08-12-2005, 04:38 PM
we are not argies.

we are great.
why they fought in the raf!!!!.

if they were intelligent they should fight on the american air force instead.

Possibly because the RAF had a less blinkered attitude to foreigners and needed pilots. As Eagle points out may of them were British ex-pats anyway.

When these men joined the US may well have still been out of the war anyway (allowing for a five or six month period between starting training and forming an operational squadron). It took the US some time after Pearl Harbour to get worked up into a war footing. Meanwhile the RAF and Commonwealth allies had two years or more experience of fighting and had mature marks of fighter. The RAF also had a considerable amount of worldwide prestige following the Battle of Britain and I suspect hadthe sort of image that appealed to Argentinians while the USAAF was still relatively new and untried.

Eagle
08-12-2005, 06:31 PM
In order to the advices made by Dani, I reduced my signature and removed the map of the Malvinas islands with the Argentinian flag behind.

I expect I could be accepted now.

1000ydstare
08-13-2005, 02:41 AM
Oi, don't strop of at Dani.

He's the mod, you're not.

He is merely trying to keep the fires down on this site.

I'm personally not bothered by your signature, but some may use it as a weapon against you.

There are some very immature people on this site.

You only have to look around some of the debris in other threads.

Don't make me stare!!!!

Dani
08-13-2005, 12:52 PM
OK, back on topic now. We could open as for swastika and sickle and hammer an entire thread on signatures.

Eagle
08-13-2005, 07:15 PM
I'm sorry Dani, but I cannot finish the discussion.

If somebody takes to my avatar or signature like offensive, please try to explain to me why is he/she feels offended by me, and we could arrenge the problem by talking. If the other member shows that he/she is right, I will remove my avatar or/and signature.
Saludes from Argentina.

BDL
08-14-2005, 03:11 AM
I'm sorry Dani, but I cannot finish the discussion.

If somebody takes to my avatar or signature like offensive, please try to explain to me why is he/she feels offended by me, and we could arrenge the problem by talking. If the other member shows that he/she is right, I will remove my avatar or/and signature.
Saludes from Argentina.

Because a lot of us had to remove Falklands related sigs or avatars because two of your country men cried about them being insulting.

Eagle
08-14-2005, 03:18 PM
BDL, look at this...

We both know that your sig is not an offensive message. You admire to the Ghurkas soldiers, but there is a good evidence that the Ghurkas murdered to Argentinian soldiers who had surrended.

But I know your message is not a provocation, is not an insult to me or the other argentinian members. A lot of people who don't apreciate or don't respect to the others could ask to the mods to remove your sig. Although, I dont gonna do that, because I know that is not offensive.

With my avatar or sig, I think is the same problem.
My sig/avatar are not offendig to british people. I am only deffending my cause. If I would have an avatar with Argentinian aircraft attaking british ships, or a british flag burning, I could accept that it is a offense.

I expect you will understand me.

Greetings from Argentina.

BDL
08-14-2005, 03:20 PM
BDL, look at this...

We both know that your sig is not an offensive message. You admire to the Ghurkas soldiers, but there is a good evidence that the Ghurkas murdered to Argentinian soldiers who had surrended.

But I know your message is not a provocation, is not an insult to me or the other argentinian members. A lot of people who don't apreciate or don't respect to the others could ask to the mods to remove your sig. Although, I dont gonna do that, because I know that is not offensive.

With my avatar or sig, I think is the same problem.
My sig/avatar are not offendig to british people. I am only deffending my cause. If I would have an avatar with Argentinian aircraft attaking british ships, or a british flag burning, I could accept that it is a offense.

I expect you will understand me.

Greetings from Argentina.

Replied to this in Off Topic - General

Eagle
08-14-2005, 04:34 PM
BDL,

My avatar is not offensive. As you said, you had the image of the argentinian surrender. You, me, and all know that it is offensive to the Argentinian members.

My avatar is only the map of the Malvinas. Why some british members take my avatar as offensive? I am only deffending the Argentinian cause, I am not offending with image of the recuperation, of the April the 2nd with Royal Marines surrended. It is only a defense to my cause.

If other Argentinian members had avatars offensive as I said, I am sorry but I don't want to be offensive.



PD: (I am sorry, I was wrong and put the last post in another topic, but I have arrenged now)

Greetings from Argentina... SALUDOS!

Cuts
08-14-2005, 05:26 PM
BDL,

My avatar is not offensive. As you said, you had the image of the argentinian surrender. You, me, and all know that it is offensive to the Argentinian members.

My avatar is only the map of the Malvinas. Why some british members take my avatar as offensive? I am only deffending the Argentinian cause, I am not offending with image of the recuperation, of the April the 2nd with Royal Marines surrended. It is only a defense to my cause.

If other Argentinian members had avatars offensive as I said, I am sorry but I don't want to be offensive.



PD: (I am sorry, I was wrong and put the last post in another topic, but I have arrenged now)

Greetings from Argentina... SALUDOS!

Eagle, I don't think your avatar is offensive at all, but the post might possibly be better suited to this thread:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=702&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Saludos

1000ydstare
08-15-2005, 02:21 AM
Eagle please read my post on that thread. Ta.

Eagle
08-15-2005, 10:33 PM
Ok, lets restart the topic...

I have some image which I want to share with you, from Argentinian pilots in the Royal Air Force...

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/mini/HurriShewardL_R.jpg
The Argentine officer Ronnie Sheward attaking with his Hurricane to the sluices of the Dutch Channel.


http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/HaslamPRXIXL_R.jpg
The Argentine volunteer Stuart Hasslam with his Spitfire over German skyes, in 1945


http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/mini/Rompeculos%20H-R.jpg
RAF B-24 Liberator named as ROMPECULOS (butts destroyer), piloted by the Argentine pilot Robin Houston, in India


http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/mini/R.jpg
The Argentine volunteer Kent Charney shooting down to his first victim, on June the 4th, 1944 over the skyes from Normandy


http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/mini/Suertudo1.jpg
1944. The Argentine pilot "****" Lindsell attaking to a japanese bridge in Burma


http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/mini/Lancaster.jpg
The Lancaster, flyed by the Argentine Bill Eddy, leads the squadron with Berlin as obejctive


I hope you'll enjoy them.

PICTURES BY: Carlos Garcia.

1000ydstare
08-16-2005, 12:52 AM
The oil paintings are good Eagle, do you have any written history on the pilots though? Did any of them receive medals for example?

Off topic, but do you know anything about what happened in this pic

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/mini/Sanchez.jpg

I read the bit on the site, but this is one gutsy manouvre!!!!

Eagle
08-16-2005, 05:53 PM
1000, Don't worry!

I have several written texts about the argentine pilots in the IIWW.

I hope you could wait me, I am too tight with exams of english, maths and chemist. I will post it at weekend if I can...


Greetings from Argentina.

Fuchs66
08-17-2005, 04:33 AM
Ok, lets restart the topic...

I have some image which I want to share with you, from Argentinian pilots in the Royal Air Force...

The Argentine officer Ronnie Sheward
The Argentine volunteer Stuart Hasslam
Argentine pilot Robin Houston,
The Argentine volunteer Kent Charney
The Argentine pilot "****" Lindsell
the Argentine Bill Eddy


Look at the names of these men they are all at least of British descent. I have a couple of questions:

Were these men Argentine nationals or did they still hold British passports?

What was the official Argentine view on the war (at governmental level and also majority public opinion) at the time?

If the opinion was sympathetic to the Allied cause, why did the powers that be in Argentina mess it up after the war by giving shelter to so many Nazi war criminals?

I dont want to start a flame war here, I am genuinely interested in this unit and the motivations of those who joined it, I am also interested in how they were percieved in Argentina.

The way I see it these men were living in Argentina but to all intents and purposes were still British, in fact it wouldn't be much different if I left my country of residence (Germany) to go to war for my country of origin (Great Britain).

Oh hang on I did already :lol: :lol:

Edit: Typo

Firefly
08-17-2005, 06:47 AM
Ok, lets restart the topic...

I have some image which I want to share with you, from Argentinian pilots in the Royal Air Force...

The Argentine officer Ronnie Sheward
The Argentine volunteer Stuart Hasslam
Argentine pilot Robin Houston,
The Argentine volunteer Kent Charney
The Argentine pilot "****" Lindsell
the Argentine Bill Eddy


Look at the names of these men they are all at least of British descent. I have a couple of questions:

Were these men Argentine nationals or did they still hold British passports?

What was the official Argentine view on the war (at governmental level and also majority public opinion) at the time?

If the opinion was sympathetic to the Allied cause, why did the powers that be in Argentina mess it up after the war by giving shelter to so many Nazi war criminals?

I dont want to start a flame war here, I am genuinely interested in this unit and the motivations of those who joined it, I am also interested in how they were percieved in Argentina.

The way I see it these men were living in Argentina but to all intents and purposes were still British, in fact it wouldn't be much different if I left my country of residence (Germany) to go to war for my country of origin (Great Britain).

Oh hang on I did already :lol: :lol:

Edit: Typo

Damn, you beat me to it. I was going to ask the same question about these guys.

None of the names are Spanish at all.

Firefly
08-17-2005, 07:04 AM
The oil paintings are good Eagle, do you have any written history on the pilots though? Did any of them receive medals for example?

Off topic, but do you know anything about what happened in this pic

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/mini/Sanchez.jpg

I read the bit on the site, but this is one gutsy manouvre!!!!

Thats a C-130 Air to Air refuelling a Skyhawk. Routine manouvre in fixed wing aircraft, if you want to see real scarey AAR chech this out:

http://www.af.mil/photos/index.asp?galleryID=54&page=4

1000ydstare
08-17-2005, 09:19 AM
Sorry, didn't make that bit clear.

I know this sort of manouvre happens all the time.

In this picture how ever the Skyhawk was absolutly pepperd. The stream of fluid out of the bottom is fuel leaking out.

I guess the refuellin gmust have had to continue all the way to Argentina. But it's better than banging out I suppose.

Firefly
08-17-2005, 09:30 AM
Ah Ok, didnt notice this in the tiny photo. Or is it a painting. The pilot was a lucky man if it is real as theres no telling whats leaking out other than fuel. Still, as you say, better than banging out 200 miles from home in the middle of the S Atlantic.

1000ydstare
08-17-2005, 10:43 AM
Is it 2 inches the spine compresses on ejection?

Wonder how they got him down?

I'd imagine he'd empty his tanks first, but then there is greater vapour risk!!!!

Bet his botty was going 5p/50p on landing, and the fire crews must have had water already being pumped when he touched down.

1000ydstare
08-17-2005, 10:46 AM
Interesting link.

Saw Air force one up close once, and the Marine one and the big galaxy or what ever it was, sat next to them.

Cuts
08-17-2005, 11:04 AM
...

Bet his botty was going 5p/50p on landing,

...

There's inflation for you, in my day it was Half-a-Crown/sixpence !

Firefly
08-17-2005, 12:34 PM
Is it 2 inches the spine compresses on ejection?



It all depends, see this snippet:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9096832&dopt=Abstract

Just found this, the caption is wrong as the aircraft that is hit is a Skyhawk and not an F-18:

http://www.dumpalink.com/post/2788

Gives a feel for what can happen to an A-4 full of fuel.


Eddited for omission.

Eagle
08-17-2005, 07:13 PM
Fuch66:

Some of the answers of your questions...

*The pilots were all of them descendant or inmigrants from Great Britain, but officialy, Argentinians.

*The official posture was neutral, but there was a tendence in favour of Germany-Italia-Japan. It changed by the final of the war, when Argentina declared an official embargo to all military-civilian units.

*Argentina allowed to nazis to enter to the country because it were close relationships between the high cabinet of the government in turn. The "nazis" who came here obtained good jobs into the state, as weapons designers, engineers, and things like that.




1000, that drawing of the Hercules refuelling to the A-4B is ilustrating to the Alferez Dellepiane, on June the 8th 1982 over the South Atlantic Ocean. The Skyhawk, attacked by the british AAA, was losing the same fuel than the Hercules was traspasing to it. If the Hercules would stop the sending of fuel, the Skyhawk would stop. Both realized the entire route to the Skyhawk base "hooked". A great drawing about a really dramatic situation.

Hanz Lutz
08-18-2005, 03:52 AM
1000, Don't worry!

I have several written texts about the argentine pilots in the IIWW.

I hope you could wait me, I am too tight with exams of english, maths and chemist. I will post it at weekend if I can...


Greetings from Argentina.

Interesting i will wait to see ,dont forget. :wink:

1000ydstare
08-18-2005, 05:23 AM
Eagle wrote


The Skyhawk, attacked by the british AAA,

I take this to mean. "The Skyhawk attacked the british, the British defended themselves with accurate AAA.

Good luck in the exams Eagle.

Eagle
08-18-2005, 05:26 PM
LOL

Of course 1000.

It was a war. Both atacked each other. Both defended itselves.

I am not trying to defend the pilot or the aircraft, and I am not trying to blame to the AAA which atacked.

Eagle
08-18-2005, 05:33 PM
Oh, I've fogotten.

Thanks about the "good luck".

Let me tell you that I had 3 of the 4 exams.

The first, math, absolutely bad!
The second, economy, it was really good
The last, this afternoon, spanish and comunication, good too

Tomorrow, the final exam of the year of english language. I am so nervous that I think I won't sleep!!!

1000ydstare
08-19-2005, 02:12 AM
Well, judging by your english on this site you shouldn't have to much problem.

The poke about AAA is that as a general rule, in Britain anyway, we don't see AA defences as offensive as in attackers. They defend. Obviously the plane is seen as the aggressor, as they have come to attack.

Although in English either is technically correct.

Eagle
08-20-2005, 04:07 PM
I could say, the plane was going to defend to the soldiers who were attacked by naval artillery.

I repeat... It was a war. Both defended, both attacked.

Crab_to_be
08-20-2005, 04:10 PM
I don't think 1000yd was attacking your viewpoint. It was more an explanation of the linguistic convention when describing AAA fire in English.

Eagle
08-20-2005, 05:12 PM
Yes I know that crab... no problem!

I will post the written note that I have about the Argentinian pilots in the Royal Air Force.

I have a note about a pilot who fought with and against Britain. In the WW2, with a bomber, in 1982 with a Learjet on recon, with the volunteer Fenix Squadron, Fuerza Aérea Argentina.

Eagle
08-21-2005, 09:09 PM
WITH THEIR OWN FLIGHT

The first group of volunteers travelled to England in June of 1940. In 1942 british descendants afforded the Argentine-British 164 Squadron. Their motto, “Firmes Volamos”. In April, the Argentine embassy in the United Kingdom decorated to 12 of the pilots, who paid their tickets to go to a ceremony at the RAF church, Saint Danes. All the guests were there but one, the Foreign Office titular.



Tito Withington. “Pilot forever”

It's a pity that Hitler had killed himself without the knowledge of the writing "ADOLFO, GRANDES CARIÑOS DESDE ARGENTINA" (Adolf, great affections from Argentina), on a bomb which was droped by a Lancaster piloted by Tito Withington, over Berchtesgaden, Hitler's holiday's house.
Withington, who was born in Córdoba, was part of the 625 Squadron in Kelstern. He flyed over Hitler's house and dropped metallic strips -known as Windows by this time, now known as CHAFF- in order to confuse German radars, and then "drop the sweets", says Tito. He is near to his 82 birthday, and until now he use with no difficults his caps which preserve by the war, when he lived in London and got drunk in the bars, and then, with his partners, jumped throw the barbed wires in order to not be punished by their superiors.
He had only 19 when the he thought an idea which was converted in an obsession: “I must to go and fight for the english”.
He had said that in his house and went to the Buenos Aires port, where he boarded a cargo ship, overflowing with cereal and meat to support the United Kingdom.
Like him, 3000 Argentines didn’t want to stay out of the conflict and enlisted to the allied forces, to fight in the Second World War.
Between the 3000 forces, was 600 pilots, who went to Royal Air Force. Today we can find at least 30 of them alive.
They’ve never talked before of their experiences in 60 years.
“We had to keep the silence about what we did. Although I have a lot of memories, I think I’ve lost the most of them. I believe the correct to do is forget all. If I don’t forget, I’ll generate hate in my mind, and it shouldn’t be promoted” says Withington.
Tito Withington arrived to England in 1943. He had a good relationship with Harold Hyland, another Argentine affiliated to the odyssey of cross the ocean and stop Hitler.
Harold lost his brother in the war, and he finished taking part of the Withington Family. When they came back, the Harold’s sister married to his “step brother” Tito Withington.
Tito was widowed the last year.
His daughter, from the living says “As he fought for the british in the 1940’s, he took part of the group anti-english, in 1982 during the South Atlantic War. He piloted a Learjet of the civilian-volunteer Fenix (Phoenix) Squadron. He could do an argument to don’t fight against people of his blood, but he always preferred to be an Argentine. He left us with 60 years with a new pilot uniform of the Argentine Air Force and we hadn’t had any news of him by 15 days. It was terrible for me and my mum”
“It wasn’t so terrible!! –replied Tito-. I wasn’t dropping bombs like the Skyhawk or Mirage boys, I only did cargo or recognition missions”



Ronald Scott. “You won’t loose your calm”

In February of 1943 Ronald Scott left Buenos Aires with Liverpool as objective, with another 400 volunteers.
“At the Argentine-British Society Commission the regent said to me that they would look after my wife if I wouldn’t return of the war”, remember Ronald, a 87 years old man with an excellent memory. His father, a scott immigrant, died when he had only 8 years.
He wishes he had gone to the war before. “I arrived to Liverpool at night. The buildings next to me were destroyed, by the extremely powerful bombing from the Luftwaffe”, says Ronald at the CASI (Club Atlético San Isidro) bar, in Buenos Aires. He was a rugby and football player in the club.
“I thought Hitler was a son of a %&$@, and if he had won in Europe, he would came here to conquer Argentina, with the support of our military forces”.
He had “dribbled” the military service here in Argentina, but became a pilot in the Royal Air Force. He started as a observant on London, controlling V1 missiles, which came from Belgium and France. His mother, English died when he was fighting for the allied.
In 1950 he joined to AUSTRAL (Regional Airline dependant from Aerolíneas Argentinas). In 1953 he saved a plane and 40 passengers, when an engine failed.
“I could save the plane because I was more than a thousand days fighting. I was shoot down and had a lot of forced landings. I think this things improve me and give me more calm than another pilot who never was in serious situations”.
http://www.ww2groundcrew.com/imgs/rscott.jpg




Bernardo Noel Lamirnat. "The reserved Argentine As".
Bernardo Noel Lamirnat is the Argentine pilot who did the best work. Although he is the most successful Argentine pilot in the Second World War, he prefers not talking about what happened. He participated in 350 combat missions with Hurricanes and Spitfires. Only a close group of his friendships in Bahia Blanca, his city, knew that he was shoot down on April the 1st 1945 over Holland, he eluded the enemy and came back to his base. It took only 24 hours.
http://www.firmesvolamos.com.ar/images/Larminat8077.jpg



I have more interesting stories about Argentines in the WW2. Please, wait to me. And forgive my so bad English language.


http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/articulos/164/escudo164.gif

Firefly
08-22-2005, 07:32 AM
Some very interesrting information in there about a subject which I confess knew very little about.

I will endevour to find out more myself as well.

Thanks for that though, nice to have a decent post for a change..

Cuts
08-22-2005, 07:44 AM
...

“I thought Hitler was a son of a %&$@, and if he had won in Europe, he would came here to conquer Argentina, with the support of our military forces”.

...My bold.

Presumeably Ronald Scott had more than an inkling about the commanders and/or the general feeling throughout the Argentine Forces of the time.
I wonder what he thought of the way top Nazis were given asylum post-war ?



...

And forgive my so bad English language.

...

Don't worry Eagle, your English is fine for the information you're posting.
I find it very interesting and enjoyable reading.

Bluffcove
08-29-2005, 09:17 AM
Excellent thread. Cheers Eagle.

ScottV
09-28-2005, 08:50 PM
I wonder what part Juan Peron played in aid to Great Britian or in WWII in general.Scott

Sturmtruppen
09-28-2005, 09:15 PM
I wonder what part Juan Peron played in aid to Great Britian or in WWII in general.Scott
Welcome Scott!,im afraid he played more in the role of odessa,the germans and the italians! (yeah,the italians a lot).
i think this men decided by themselves (as you see they are british descendents so guess who inspired them= :roll: )

Cheers!

Erwin

Firefly
09-29-2005, 02:42 AM
I wonder what part Juan Peron played in aid to Great Britian or in WWII in general.Scott
Welcome Scott!,im afraid he played more in the role of odessa,the germans and the italians! (yeah,the italians a lot).
i think this men decided by themselves (as you see they are british descendents so guess who inspired them= :roll: )

Cheers!

Erwin

Dont be rolling them eyes 'Kiddo'.

Are you not proud of your countrymens achievements.

Sturmtruppen
09-29-2005, 12:29 PM
Dont be rolling them eyes 'Kiddo'.

Are you not proud of your countrymens achievements.
Kiddo?,huh?.

im proud of them,but i put the icon because its obvious that they went their by a blood call,there isn't any argentine with enough brain health to go to the raf (well,if we talk about ww2,id rather to be in the us air force).

do i have to explain smiles now?.

Gen. Sandworm
09-29-2005, 12:48 PM
Dont be rolling them eyes 'Kiddo'.

Are you not proud of your countrymens achievements.
Kiddo?,huh?.

im proud of them,but i put the icon because its obvious that they went their by a blood call,there isn't any argentine with enough brain health to go to the raf (well,if we talk about ww2,id rather to be in the us air force).

do i have to explain smiles now?.

Yes but you would lack the experience of the RAF pilots. Dont forget they had a 2 year head start on the americans. Does anyone know the number of Americans that jumped the boarder and fought for the commonwealth?

Bladensburg
09-30-2005, 07:43 AM
It was Brian Hanrahan, Crab. From the deck of one of the carriers and IIRC he got into trouble for giving out too much information at some point.

Dani
09-30-2005, 07:49 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/correspondents/newsid_2626000/2626477.stm

Didn't know that!

Dani
09-30-2005, 08:53 AM
Could we return to the topic here?

We could continue this discussion in the threads already known. :D

Thank you.

Firefly
09-30-2005, 12:59 PM
Back to topic. They were brave men who decided to volunteer for the RAF. They were Argentinians and did their country proud.

I for one salute their achievements!

BDL
10-01-2005, 02:56 PM
Kiddo?,huh?.

im proud of them,but i put the icon because its obvious that they went their by a blood call,there isn't any argentine with enough brain health to go to the raf (well,if we talk about ww2,id rather to be in the us air force).

do i have to explain smiles now?.

Is there a single thread on here where your hatred of the British won't affect your posting? You don't like us, the Falklands belong to Argentina, the British are thieves, pirates, shit soldiers and closet homosexuals.

WE GET IT.

Please, if your comment can't add to the debate, just don't make it. We could all add random posts against countries we don't like and be Officers and have thousands of posts if we wanted to.

BDL
10-01-2005, 02:58 PM
Yes but you would lack the experience of the RAF pilots. Dont forget they had a 2 year head start on the americans. Does anyone know the number of Americans that jumped the boarder and fought for the commonwealth?

Not sure on Yanks pretending to be Canadian, but six Americans qualified for the Battle of Britain medal.

LargeBrew
10-05-2005, 11:02 PM
Thanks Mike I enjoyed those links I may try to put that museum on my list of places to visit next time I'm in the states.

Panzerknacker
01-23-2006, 06:47 AM
I just noticed this topic...
aniway more pics.

Argentine Flight Lieutenant Algeron Middleton flying an Spitfire PR XIV meet unexpectedly a Me-262 prototypes flying over Peenemunde in 1944.

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/Spitfire%20PR%20%20Algie.jpg

Twitch1
01-25-2006, 10:05 AM
Nice art Panzer. It's on my screensaver now!

Panzerknacker
01-25-2006, 06:19 PM
You can have more in here.

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/eng/mil_1.htm

P by Peter. Lancaster flown by argentine volunteer pilot Bill Eddy during Berlin bomber mission

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/Lancaster.jpg

Firefly
01-26-2006, 06:34 AM
Nice painting. A rare event as well - an apparent daylight RAF raid!

Eagle
03-27-2006, 09:30 PM
All those paintings are from the excelent argentine painter Carlos Garcia. As Panzer said, you can find a lot of paintings in his website, www.aviationart.com.ar

CDN3RD_Canadian
03-28-2006, 09:38 AM
I just noticed this topic...Eagle the important thing was the pics not the avatar discution, that is tipical of you.

aniway more pics.

Argentine Flight Lieutenant Algeron Middleton flying an Spitfire PR XIV meet unexpectedly a Me-262 prototypes flying over Peenemunde in 1944.

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/Spitfire%20PR%20%20Algie.jpg

That is an awsome picture looks like it would make a great back ground.

Eagle
03-28-2006, 02:46 PM
Canadian, I don't know if you have seen all this topic, but I show you again some pics that I'd posted a months ago.



http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/Hurri%20Sheward%20L_R.jpg
The Argentine officer Ronaldo Sheward, flying a hurricane from the 164 Argentine Squadron, attacks with rockets to the Hansweert Channel, Holand. (September '42)

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/R.jpg
The Argentine Kent Chennay attacks to german aircrafts over the skies of Normandy, escorted by the French Ace Pierre Closterman. (June '44)

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/Rompeculos%20H-R.jpg
The bomber B-24 Liberator "El Rompeculos" (The *** Braker) and his Argentine crew, in an Indian Airbase. On the picture there's a monkey, "Minnie", the pet of the commander Robin Houston.

Panzerknacker
03-29-2006, 06:06 PM
My favorite by far is this: 8)

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/HaslamPRXIXL_R.jpg

"Smile, Adolph!. The paint show the Spitfire PR XIX over Germany skies flown by the argentine
volunteer in the RAF, Stuart Haslam. Oil, 90cm x 60 cm"

Eagle
05-03-2006, 08:20 PM
I just noticed this topic...Eagle the important thing was the pics not the avatar discution, that is tipical of you.



What are you talking about....? :?:

Panzerknacker
05-03-2006, 11:02 PM
Y ahora ya paso...tenias la imagen de la firma enorme...ya la modificaste.

Ta todo bien 8)




How Argentines helped British win war
BBC News - Saturday, 9 April, 2005
by Martha Buckley
Think of relations between Britain and Argentina and images of the Falklands conflict, jingoistic tabloid headlines and Diego Maradona's "hand of God" goal at the 1986 World Cup, might come to mind.

But the British and the Argentines have not always been enemies.


During World War II, Argentina's ambassador, Miguel Angel Carcano, refused to leave London during the blitz, saying: "As long as the King and Queen stay in London, I will too.

"Hundreds of his countrymen volunteered to travel thousands of miles to Britain to join the fight against Hitler.

Their contribution is recalled in a book, Wings of Thunder (Alas de Trueno in Spanish), launched this week with a special remembrance service for ex-servicemen at the RAF church of St Clement Danes in London.

Though Argentina was officially neutral, more than 600 of her young men left the safety of South America to fight - many never to return.

Among them was Jack Miles, an Argentine of British descent, who contacted the British consulate in 1940 to join up.

So many joined the RAF that a special Argentine squadron was set up.

"Though Argentina was a very neutral country and very far away, we knew if Britain caved in then we would be next, or we would be on the list"

Jack Miles

He told the BBC News Website: "We were very much aware of the strength and power of Germany and we had to stop this huge war machine.

"I didn't care what I did, I wanted to contribute to the war effort.

"Though Argentina was a very neutral country and very far away, we knew if Britain caved in then we would be next, or we would be on the list."

Jack, now 87, sailed for Britain the following year, aged 22, arriving in London in October 1941.

He said: "I arrived at Euston station at about 10pm. There was an air raid going on, it was completely black and there was a tremendous racket.

"I was all alone, I had never been out of Argentina before and it made me wonder if I was doing the right thing."

Jack soon found his bearings and met up with younger brother, Eric, then 19, who had arrived a week earlier.

Eventually Jack joined the RAF and became a pilot and Eric joined the army, becoming a tank commander in the 25th Dragoons, fighting in the jungles of Burma.

Jack was sent to Canada where he spent 18 months as a flying instructor before he too was sent to Burma in 1944.

As the war with Japan was ending, his main task was evacuating prisoners of war from Saigon, in modern-day Vietnam, and Thailand.

Many of the freed Japanese POWs were also in a terrible state.

He said: "They were in an awful state, poor chaps. They were thin, they had jungle sores, they had been through hell."

One trip, transporting a group of 31 POWs, almost ended in disaster.

Belly landing

He said: "It was awful weather, raining with the windscreen wipers going like mad and I lost both engines.
"We made a belly landing in a rice field about three or four miles from the runway in Rangoon.

"So we had to walk, crawling waist or shoulder deep in a river. We were all just covered in leeches.

"What affected me very much was all the POWs came and thanked me for them not having been hurt."
Anybody who invades another country is wrong, I think Jack Miles

Jack's brother Eric also survived the war, despite being "pretty badly shot up", as did another brother.
But two of his Argentine cousins died in action, one brother killed the day after the other in 1941.

Several of his school friends were also killed.

Football

After the war Jack continued his flying career in Argentina.

But he disagreed with the regime of dictator Juan Peron and emigrated to Canada in the 1950s. Jack later became vice-president of one of the country's biggest airlines.

Jack stresses the links between Argentina and Britain rather than the divisions which existed after the Falklands conflict.

The Falklands conflict poisoned Anglo-Argentine relations He said a large expat British presence in Argentina had left its mark in many ways, including introducing Argentina's national passion - football.

He blames Argentina's former military junta, led by General Leopoldo Galtieri, for the 1982 war.

Jack said: "General Galtieri, in order to divert the Argentine people from how badly he was running the country economically, invaded the Falkland Islands.

"Anybody who invades another country is wrong."

He said a large expat British presence in Argentina had left its mark in many ways, including introducing Argentina's national passion - football.

He blames Argentina's former military junta, led by General Leopoldo Galtieri, for the 1982 war.

Jack said: "General Galtieri, in order to divert the Argentine people from how badly he was running the country economically, invaded the Falkland Islands.

"Anybody who invades another country is wrong."

Eagle
05-05-2006, 09:39 PM
Emm sin ondas de discutir, en serio, disculpame pero sigo sin entender. Recibí mucha ayuda por parte de los ingleses en qué sentido...

Ah, y la decisión de poner al Cap Carballo como avatar fue una idea que tuve después de ver a la firma que usaba Firefly, que decía "FALKLANDS/MALVINAS MEMBER GROUP", con una bandera británica y un Harrier.

Panzerknacker
05-05-2006, 09:41 PM
Ellos tambien se desviaron del Tema, especialmente el flaco que tiene el nombre con un numero de 4 cifras.

Panzerknacker
06-02-2007, 10:16 PM
Before the official date of creation of this squadron 164 there was some examples of argentine contribution for the british War effort.

This Supermarine Spitfire Mk-IA was purchased by the Anglo-Argentine Society of Buenos Aires. It was named "Pampero" ( Strong wind of the center west argentina)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4431/pamperoqo3.jpg


This aircraft was lost in combat in april 1941 over Canterbury being badly hit by defensive fire of Ju-88s. The pilot escaped by parachute with some minor injuries.

Source:

http://www.warbirdsinscale.com/images/reviews/ospreycovers/ospreyaces12.jpg

Uyraell
02-11-2009, 10:27 PM
The oil paintings are good Eagle, do you have any written history on the pilots though? Did any of them receive medals for example?

Off topic, but do you know anything about what happened in this pic

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/militar/mini/Sanchez.jpg

I read the bit on the site, but this is one gutsy manouvre!!!!

Will remain strictly neutral regarding South Atlantic events in 1982.
However, I care not who or where from, the action shown in the Hercules/A4 Skyhawk pic takes brass cojones of the highest order and courage.
That, I openly respect.
Yes, the C130 can be, and is employed in an A-A-R role, and yes, the A4 can refuel in such a mode.
However, operationally such was and remains a rarity, and as such deserves respect for successful usage.
All airmen involved there have my Respects.

Regards, Uyraell.

Uyraell
02-11-2009, 10:52 PM
Nice painting. A rare event as well - an apparent daylight RAF raid!

If memory serves (and in this particular case I may well be mistaken) this depicts an RAF raid on the marshaling yards in Berlin, as part of the interdiction of German supplies and troops to Normandy.

Regards, Uyraell.