Allied Bombing Campaigns

[Firefly]

In your opinion were the allied bombing campaigns against Germany and Japan justified. They both caused untold suffering to Civillians, did they help shorten the war? Or even if they did do you see them as morally reprehensible?

[Hanz Lutz]

In bombing just died civilians ,and that's wrong that not help to war end.

[BDL]

Had to be done, only way we had to attack German industry. Same with the attacks on Japan.

Civvie casualties were unfortunate, but the Germans did it first anyway, so they brought it on themselves.

[pdf27]

Despite what most people seem to think, the bombing raids did actually do a lot of damage to the German economy (Hamburg for example took little further part in the war after the major raid on it in summer 1943). Much is made of the fact that German production skyrocketed in 1944 despite the bombing campaign - but when you look at how inefficient the German war economy was prior to Speer taking over it becomes clear how meaningless a link this is. The UK was on a total war footing from around 1940 onwards, the US from early 1942. It didn't happen in Germany until Speer took over (in 1943?).

Oh, and one final quote from someone on another board who used to do this sort of thing for a living (in his case targeteering nuclear weapons) - "Because, speaking as a professional in such things, I can assure you that burning cities down is much more efficient than blowing them up. It is actually very difficult to destroy rail junctions and lines by dropping high explosive. In contrast buring the city down around their ears has all sorts of advantages.
Of course, it would have been better still to have used a nuke. Pity we didn't have one available."
(part of a discussion on Dresden).

[Firefly]

Though I hate to use the old they started it thing it is true. Also in 1941-42 Bombing was the only real way that the UK could hit back at Germany. It accomplished many things.

It forces the Germans to defend cities with assets that could have been used elsewhere.

It disrupted life in general and while it may not have broken morale specifically, it did help to create war weariness.

By 1944 British night bombing was almost as accurrate as day bombing.

In sum, I dont think it was the wrong thing to do at the time, and I believe if the Germans had held out until Aug 45, they would have been visited by Enola gay flying out of the UK.

[temujin77]

Killing civilians is wrong, but war is ugly. In given circumstances, I for one don't blame Allied command for carrying out those attacks. It had to be done, and the end justifies the means.

[Hanz Lutz]

Germans bombing London with V2 Rockets and that is wrong too.

[Man of Stoat]

Germans bombing London with V2 Rockets and that is wrong too.

They were bombing London & other cities with normal bombers from 1940 onwards - the V2s only started arriving very late in the war

[Hanz Lutz]

V2 Started 1944 but rocket killed more innocent people's then bombs when war is started.

[Man of Stoat]

V2 Started 1944 but rocket killed more innocent people's then bombs when war is started.

Sorry, but you're going to have to provide some stats to back that up cos I don't believe it.

[Hanz Lutz]

I watching BBC Exclusive and they tell then in london killed more then 6000 civilians.
Read this

The V1 Flying bomb and V2 Rocket attacks on London between June 1944 and March 1945 were the last great challenge of World War II that the people of London were to face. 2419 V1's, otherwise known as Doodlebugs, were to wreak chaos and carnage. Later over 500 of Hitlers Rockets, the V2, were to strike . In total appx. 8938 died and tens of thousands injured. Some of the major London tragedies such as the Guards Chapel, Aldwych,New Cross Woolworths,Hughes Mansions and Lewisham Market disasters are well documented. There are, however countless domestic tragedies where people died in their own homes,were grieviously injured,lost love ones, or suffered the loss of all they owned.This site aims to give details of these,that occurred in South London, as well as some of the more well known disasters across the capital.....

go to this site

http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/

[Man of Stoat]

I'm going to do it for you, Claus:

V2 casualties in London: 2,754 killed and 6,523 seriously injured. (http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-in-europe/european-air-war/european-air-war-index-1945.htm)

The "Blitz" casualties in the UK: 43,000 civilians are estimated to have died , with over 139,000 injured (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz)

So the conventional bombing campaign killed almost 7 times more people than the V2. Sorry, mate.

[Hanz Lutz]

ok but in london V2 killed 8938 civilians and tens of thousands injured ,you tell 2.754 and tens of thousands injured not 6523.

Ok I accept bombs kill more people's but tell true don't lie about V2 .

[Cuts]

...

It had to be done, and the end justifies the means.

:shock:
A very dangerous statement Tem, just think what some of the nutters throughout history have done using this very excuse !

[Man of Stoat]

ok but in london V2 killed 8938 civilians and tens of thousands injured ,you tell 2.754 and tens of thousands injured not 6523.

Ok I accept bombs kill more people's but tell true don't lie about V2 .

OK, I accept that English is not your 1st language, but read carefully what you posted:

The V1 Flying bomb and V2 Rocket attacks on London between June 1944 and March 1945 were the last great challenge of World War II that the people of London were to face. 2419 V1's, otherwise known as Doodlebugs, were to wreak chaos and carnage. Later over 500 of Hitlers Rockets, the V2, were to strike . In total appx. 8938 died and tens of thousands injured.

The figures you quote are for the V1 AND V2, NOT just the V2.

[Cuts]

ok but in london V2 killed 8938 civilians and tens of thousands injured ,you tell 2.754 and tens of thousands injured not 6523.

Ok I accept bombs kill more people's but tell true don't lie about V2 .



Clauss, the site does say:

27/04/1945, Total V2-weapon casualties in Britain are announced as 2754 killed and 6523 seriously injured.
http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-in-europe/european-air-war/european-air-war-index-1945.htm

[Hanz Lutz]

Cuts read this site http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/

[Man of Stoat]

Cuts read this site http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/

Ja, und es sagt: 8938 people were killed by Flying bombs and rockets

Auf Deustsch:
8938 Menschen wurden von fliegenden Bomben UND raketten getötet

Also 8938 ist die Summe der Tödesfälle von V1 UND V2 Waffen, und NICHT NUR von V2 raketten!

Die Bedeutungslehre ist sehr sehr wichtig, ausserdass Du Ironman bist!

[Cuts]

Cuts read this site http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/

Aye Clauss, it's an interesting site.

8938 people were killed by Flying bombs and rockets and 25,000 were seriously injured and many maimed for life.

But as Man of Stoat says, this covers both V1s (flying bombs) and rockets (V2s).
The killed to injured ratio is typical of mass casualty sits.

[Hanz Lutz]

ja ja jawohl !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hanz Lutz]

Ok man of stoat you are in right and I am wrong ,do you ever forgive me ,it's yoke sorry you are in right. :wink: