The hammer and the sickle! Please vote!

[Dani]

Following a recent post of Man of Stoat (http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=11638#11638)
should the hammer and the sickle be outlawed on the site?
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/166/hammerandsickle3d1gg3xm.gif
If you are offended by it vote yes. If you are ok with it vote no.
Thanks
Dani

P.S. This site in no way supports communism, neo-communism or other venue's of anti-human ideoloy.

[Man of Stoat]

The same reasoning applies as to the swastika - I don't think it should be banned just cos I find it offensive.

However, if one should be banned, the other should too. It's all-or-nothing, really.

But I reserve the right to be offended by it & be vocal about it, and to call anyone using it so blatently a c*ck.

[Dani]

Once again I agree with you Stoat!
Like on the swastika case, I voted that the hammer and the sickle to be allowed as a personal choice for avatars and signatures.

[Sturmtruppen]

I find it a bit agressive,but,we are in democracy,so,i vote no

[pdf27]

Personally, despite the fact that the Soviets killed more people than the Nazis, I've always found the Nazis to be a somewhat blacker evil than even the Soviets.
While the Soviets killed millions, it was an evil I can comprehend - they killed anyone they thought might possibly be a threat to their system. In many ways, Joe Stalin and John Gotti are interchangeable - one merely had more chances to kill.
With the Nazis, there is something deeply creepy and incomprehensible about it. They effectively at random selected a proportion of the population and decided to cold-bloodedly exterminate them, based on a characteristic these people had no control over. This is something I cannot comprehend.

There are also other aspects of the Nazi system that I find utterly repulsive. For instance, the Stutthof concentration camp was run by the Wehrmacht (not the SS) with the express purpose of providing a supply of dead bodies as feedstock for a soap factory (Danzig Anatomical Medical Institute). Murdering people for political reasons I can perhaps comprehend (if not forgive or forget) but to provide feedstock for an industrial process is a reason I cannot even comprehend.

[Sturmtruppen]

true words pdf27

[Commando Jordovski]

I find it a bit agressive,but,we are in democracy,so,i vote no

Very well said Erwin,
There is nothing wrong with having a equality sign as my signature is there, theres a member on this site called "adolf hitler" and hes got a swastika, even though my hate of the germans runs thick i agree with erwin, this is democracy and it's his choice to do what he wants, same with me.

[Commando Jordovski]

The same reasoning applies as to the swastika - I don't think it should be banned just cos I find it offensive.

However, if one should be banned, the other should too. It's all-or-nothing, really.

But I reserve the right to be offended by it & be vocal about it, and to call anyone using it so blatently a c*ck.

If you really find the hammer and sickle offensive i will change it ok, all you had to do was ask.

[Commando Jordovski]

Though alot of people old and young still hate the germans and japanese i think we can find a way to forgive them for what they did, for it will never happen again like what happened 60 years ago, agreed?

[FW-190 Pilot]

why should it be banned, its just a symbol for communist?
Why would you think commusium is a bad thing, it is a wrong concept but its not an evil concept, except it is being used by stalin to his dictatorship

[Gen. Sandworm]

Though alot of people old and young still hate the germans and japanese i think we can find a way to forgive them for what they did, for it will never happen again like what happened 60 years ago, agreed?

Well I have a "never say never" policy especially when it comes to human nature. So we can only pray that those things will never happen again. I dont ever see a furture where man does not have war.

I agree forgiveness is key in keeping wars from happening but doenst always work.

[Dani]

Why would you think commusium is a bad thing, it is a wrong concept but its not an evil concept, except it is being used by stalin to his dictatorship
Believe me, FW-190 Pilot, it is an evil concept. I live myself in communism up to the end of 1989.
Most of Westerners actually do believe that communism is not evil. As an inhabitant of a country who had communist regime for 45 years (regime imposed by the Soviets) I want to tell you that if you had been lived only a week under such a regime, your thoughts about communism should be spoiled. Communism doesn't mean only Joseph Stalin!!
The same thing happened with the Nazi regime. Most of us doesn't live under a Nazi regime and think that Nazi ideology was good (exception of Holocaust - of course). Wrong thoughts! Nazi doesn't mean only Adolf Hitler!!

[Firefly]

I believe that Communism was just about as evil as Nazism. However if we dont ban one, we cant ban the other. Trouble we have here is someone will always object to any symbols. Its when they are put together that makes more of a statement. What I mean is, having a name like white supremist and having the Swastika in your signature etc....

[Commando Jordovski]

Nazism was evil because it believed in a master Race and to slaughter all false followers---thats an evil concept...
Communism was used wrongly but for the right thing---for everyone to be equal in a society where your neighbour does not envy you.---thats not and evil concept but was used wrongly

[Dani]

Communism was used wrongly but for the right thing---for everyone to be equal in a society where your neighbour does not envy you.---thats not and evil concept but was used wrongly
You wouldn't like the ideea to be equal, believe me!! And like Man of Stoat said (http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=11921#11921)
[Hammer and sickle] represents the dominance of the workers (hammer) and peasants (sickle) over the "borgeoisie" (i.e. middle & upper classes). Only workers & peasants were equal - the professional classes were to be destroyed as a class.
Anyway, mate, try to read Marx!!! :D
Your wrong thought of "everyone to be equal.." would be spoiled then. :D

[Man of Stoat]

Well said, Dani - it must gall you every time some Communist apologist pops up talking about "equality" under Communism when you personally had to suffer under it.

No communist regime had an acceptable human rights record, none respected individual rights, and none had any form of equality - party shops, anyone?.

Dani - why don't you write a piece about what life in Communist Romania was like for the benefit of the education of our little "useful idiot", as Lenin would have called him?

[Dani]

http://www.comunism.ro/ (in Romanian) Till now only in Romanian. They said: "This project is dedicated to the memory of all victims of the communist regime"

Also I want to quote some words from http://www.peacecorpswriters.org/pages/2003/0301/prntvrs301/pv301pcvrom.html:
ONE BLUSTERY DAY in November 1989, Dorel Jurcovan stood in line several hours for a half a kilogram of meat — just over one pound — his family’s ration for a whole month. Ration lines were a way of life in Communist Romania. Waiting, more waiting, for 5 eggs, less than an ounce of butter and a half-gallon of milk.
Night fell in Timisoara, and still he had no meat, so he began to ask about the slaughterhouse and delivery truck — how could they be sure meat would arrive? Other people around him suddenly were nervous and moved away. One man uttered, “It doesn’t matter. Look, I want to go home from here,” meaning the alternative was to be hauled off to jail for challenging authority. Dorel eventually received a piece of meat the size of his forearm, but most of it was bone and fat.
“I was so furious when I got home,” he recalls. “I just shouted — not at my wife or daughter — but shouted, ‘If we can’t ask a simple question, we are just doomed. Our lives have no meaning.’”
End quote.
This was our daily struggle for surviving. (Anybody remember Maslow's hierarchy of needs? :lol: :lol: )
To be continued in another thread with more examples (cult of personality, people's fear, brain-washing programs, newspapers and propaganda, and so on)

[Dani]

... party shops, anyone?.
Well Man of Stoat, you are very informed. Good to you!! :D
I'd like more Westerners to be informed as you are.

[Man of Stoat]

... party shops, anyone?.
Well Man of Stoat, you are very informed. Good to you!! :D
I'd like more Westerners to be informed as you are.

Thanks - I find the whole thing absolutely fascinating, and have read around the subject. I've read almost all of Solzhenistyn, Anne Applebaum's GULAG, some Lenin, some Bukharin (these latter 2 were totally bonkers - Lenin: "the greatest threat to our revolution is... the shopkeepers". This was at a time when the Red Army was pillaging the countryside thus creating a food supply problem & elevating prices. But instead of admitting that his army was to blame, he blames the shopkeepers, calling them "petit-bourgoisie" and "profiteers".)

What's also fascinating is that what a lot of people in the West think of Lenin is actually based in Stalinist era propaganda! The USSR were masters of disinformation - I believe that they even coined the term.

[Firefly]

I love the old Stalin photos that have the cronies erased as they fall out of favour, anyone got before and afters of them?

[Commando Jordovski]

I got the communist conspiracy by Karl Marx in word Document.

[pdf27]

I got the communist conspiracy by Karl Marx in word Document.
You mean the Communist Manifesto?

[Tubbyboy]

I voted yes on principle after the swastika debate.

My views on Communism as a principle have already been spelled out in a long, rambling (and rather drunk) post:http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=9874#9874

However, some people seem to make a life out of finding everything offensive so I think it is good that we have some reasoned debate on these matters. I will bow to the democratic will.

[Hanz Lutz]

Democratic is better in communism peoples been slaves ,and poor . :(

[Sturmtruppen]

Democratic is better in communism peoples been slaves ,and poor . :(
true words clauss!

[Commando Jordovski]

I think Karl marx and Engels wanted Communism to be peaceful and something good, but sadly it is now depicted as evil.

[Man of Stoat]

I think Karl marx and Engels wanted Communism to be peaceful and something good, but sadly it is now depicted as evil.

No, they were quite clear about the destruction of the so-called "bourgoisie". Doesn't sound terribly peaceful to me!

[Hanz Lutz]

Marx and Engels they wanted to destroy capitalism and democratic with revolution :shock:

[mike M.]

I vote NO.

[StalingradK]

Who would vote yes anyways? Maybe an opressed person by means of Communism... But really :?

[Hanz Lutz]

i wote no ,communism is not so bad. :lol: :lol:

[Man of Stoat]

i wote no ,communism is not so bad. :lol: :lol:

95,000,000 dead would disagree with you.

[Firefly]

i wote no ,communism is not so bad. :lol: :lol:

95,000,000 dead would disagree with you.

I would add as well as countless other millions oppressed by it and sent to the Gulags etc etc etc.

[StalingradK]

If you vote yes, just look at it through a historical stand point :?

[Man of Stoat]

As a libertarian and all-round civil liberties advocate, I voted "NO" just like I did for the Swastika, btw.

[Firefly]

As a libertarian and all-round civil liberties advocate, I voted "NO" just like I did for the Swastika, btw.

Me too, are you going fishin?

[Hanz Lutz]

i wote no ,communism is not so bad. :lol: :lol:

95,000,000 dead would disagree with you.

I would add as well as countless other millions oppressed by it and sent to the Gulags etc etc etc.

Stalin only sands peoples to Gulags ,not every soviet leader been monster,i think :? :?

[Sturmtruppen]

i wote no ,communism is not so bad. :lol: :lol:

95,000,000 dead would disagree with you.
he added laughs (means: just kidding/a joke).

btw,you voted too no.

and the hammer and sickley never killed people,they did?.

taking in count that he said the communism is not so bad,ask the russians what form of goverment prefer?,he was just joking,don´t you see the smiles?.

yeah,communism sux,but nazism sucks too.


so,stick on topic,im afraid this thread is finished since the most voted no.

[Sturmtruppen]

i wote no ,communism is not so bad. :lol: :lol:

95,000,000 dead would disagree with you.

I would add as well as countless other millions oppressed by it and sent to the Gulags etc etc etc.

Stalin only sands peoples to Gulags ,not every soviet leader been monster,i think :? :?

he´s right!,not everybody at soviet union was an ass,most of them yes,but you don´t have to post such tipes of comments stoatman,you can react like that if he puts pics of stalin with intention of communism,and deads who fought the communism with communist intentions.

he is not spotting communism.

try to have better moods please,and stick on topic.thanks

[Hanz Lutz]

Bah ..,,let that go Erwin i am know firefly and stoat answer when i write post ,and i dont read they posts. :wink:

[Man of Stoat]

Lenin executed by district quotas, and instigated the "red terror".
Kruschev & later dictators kept the gulag going, but not to the same degree. Dissenters were still being exiled until the fall of the soviet bloc.

Stalin was by far the worst, but the others were no pussycats either.

[Dani]

he´s right!,not everybody at soviet union was an ass,

He is wrong Erwin. With exception of disidents.

[Sturmtruppen]

he´s right!,not everybody at soviet union was an ass,

He is wrong Erwin. With exception of disidents.
Dani,everybody couldn`t be an ass.

you lived on it,but in Romania,the communism tried to kill romania,in russia,the things were a bit better when communism (REALLY!,the first time i see it works before china :shock: )

i know you hate it,me too,but i don`t think every communist is a killer,¡/ass/or something like that.

[Dani]

I don't hate it. It is an obsolete "way of life" for me.
Not all inhabitants of a country with communism regime are communists. I am speaking of communists in the unique Communist Party.
For instance, in Romania, in 1989 on 23 millions, we had 3.5 millions party members (according to propaganda). It was this huge number because if you should want to live a more "decent" life, you should join the Party.
Higher level in the party made the decisions.
Lower level in the party wanted a "good" life (in Communism :D ).
So, the conclusion is simple: all communists (to be read: in the Party) were an asses.

[Sturmtruppen]

I don't hate it. It is an obsolete "way of life" for me.
Not all inhabitants of a country with communism regime are communists. I am speaking of communists in the unique Communist Party.
For instance, in Romania, in 1989 on 23 millions, we had 3.5 millions party members (according to propaganda). It was this huge number because if you should want to live a more "decent" life, you should join the Party.
Higher level in the party made the decisions.
Lower level in the party wanted a "good" life (in Communism :D ).
So, the conclusion is simple: all communists (to be read: in the Party) were an asses.

there weren`t some communist in the party that believed it as a better way of life?,and i guess those who joined did that because they wanted a better future,specially in a country like russia that had poor people.

[Dani]

Better life speaking of the benefits of being party member...

[Man of Stoat]

Better life speaking of the benefits of being party member...

e.g. more money, better apartments, access to special shops selling goods not available to non-party members, better working conditions, power & authority, etc etc etc.

[T-34s_Are_Cool]

Post deleted by Dani.
Keep going on this way and you'll receive another warning.

Second edit made by Dani: T-34s_Are_Cool, So I see that you are coming back with insults. This is the last INFORMAL warning to you. For any complaints USE YOUR PM (PM to me, SAM or the admin).

[Dani]

Maybe T-34s_Are_Cool doesn't check his posts, therefore I write again:

Keep going on this way and you'll receive another warning.
T-34s_Are_Cool, So I see that you are coming back with insults. This is the last INFORMAL warning to you. For any complaints USE YOUR PM (PM to me, SAM or the admin).

[Commando Jordovski]

Does anyone think that Communism will ever rise up again in Russia or newly in another democratic / capitalist society country?

[Commando Jordovski]

I think most likely the USA would prevent any country from converting to communist, or threat.

What year did Cuba and north korea become Communist ?

[Man of Stoat]

Does anyone think that Communism will ever rise up again in Russia or newly in another democratic / capitalist society country?

Err, no, it's a failed and discredited political and economic system based on false premises.

As for Cuba and North Korea, Cuba - 1959 revolution (not initially communist), NK 1948.

[Commando Jordovski]

Does anyone think that Communism will ever rise up again in Russia or newly in another democratic / capitalist society country?

Err, no, it's a failed and discredited political and economic system based on false premises.

As for Cuba and North Korea, Cuba - 1959 revolution (not initially communist), NK 1948.

North Korea was provoked by the Soviets northly to convert to what they called "wonderful and peace" world of the communist society 1948 right, so what eventually changed the Cubans from 1959 onwards to be communist?, was it the Soviets or the Chinese intentually?

[Man of Stoat]

Does anyone think that Communism will ever rise up again in Russia or newly in another democratic / capitalist society country?

Err, no, it's a failed and discredited political and economic system based on false premises.

As for Cuba and North Korea, Cuba - 1959 revolution (not initially communist), NK 1948.

North Korea was provoked by the Soviets northly to convert to what they called "wonderful and peace" world of the communist society 1948 right, so what eventually changed the Cubans from 1959 onwards to be communist?, was it the Soviets or the Chinese intentually?

Read up on the Cuban Revolution (wikipedia for a start). That will tell you all you need to know. (basically revolution ousted Batista, a few years later, castro declared that the revolution was socialist, a few years after that he declared it communist).

Basically, around that time if your government came out as communist, the russkies would shower you with money, military equipment, and advisors as well as an off-the-shelf system of internal repression.

[Commando Jordovski]

Cuba is not a country im terribly familiar with, i know alot about it from the Cold War and the Cuban missile crisis, but before the 1960's it seemed pretty insignificant to the World, they are still communist today, who is there leader today just out of curiosity, i know it's not Castro.

by the Way, i know they use the Communist Star but do they use the Hammer and Sickle aswell, i dont think so?

[Man of Stoat]

Cuba is not a country im terribly familiar with, i know alot about it from the Cold War and the Cuban missile crisis, but before the 1960's it seemed pretty insignificant to the World, they are still communist today, who is there leader today just out of curiosity, i know it's not Castro.

Then you don't know, cos it is Castro - like most Communist leaders he is Presidente for Life.

[Commando Jordovski]

Is Castro still the leader? How old is is now ?

[Man of Stoat]

Is Castro still the leader? How old is is now ?

Yes.

Very. But not old enough to stop imprisoning journalists and teachers for not toeing the party line.

[Commando Jordovski]

Do you think when he comes out of office and not a leader anymore, there will be a fall in communism or such, or maybe he will be replaced with a trusting socialist member that castro knows.

[Man of Stoat]

Do you think when he comes out of office and not a leader anymore, there will be a fall in communism or such, or maybe he will be replaced with a trusting socialist member that castro knows.

If there is no obvious "heir", then it will fall quickly - infighting, and demands of free & fair elections. If it proves to be dynastic communism (like North Korea), it may fall a little slower, as demands for elections will probably be quashed.

[Commando Jordovski]

Do you think when he comes out of office and not a leader anymore, there will be a fall in communism or such, or maybe he will be replaced with a trusting socialist member that castro knows.

If there is no obvious "heir", then it will fall quickly - infighting, and demands of free & fair elections. If it proves to be dynastic communism (like North Korea), it may fall a little slower, as demands for elections will probably be quashed.

North Korea is going quite well in their communist society, i dont think they will change??
Same with China, China has big trade with Australasia.

[Man of Stoat]

North Korea is going quite well in their communist society, i dont think they will change??
Same with China, China has big trade with Australasia.

North Korea? You're having a laugh! There are people starving, resorting to cannibalism, and they're executing people caught trying to cross the border to escape. The economy is in ruins. Their human rights record is atrocious, and they operate a vast system of political prisons (GULAG-style).

China has only been doing well since they've liberalised their internal and external markets and have gone economically capitalist - but dissidents are still being arrested and imprisoned, and China uses the death penalty arbitrarily, even executing people for white-collar crimes during a "strike hard" campaign.

You really need to do some reading, mate.

[Hosenfield]

This guy is freaking awesome. but i would not want to share a foxhole with him.

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/tank-1.jpg

[Commando Jordovski]

North Korea is going quite well in their communist society, i dont think they will change??
Same with China, China has big trade with Australasia.

North Korea? You're having a laugh! There are people starving, resorting to cannibalism, and they're executing people caught trying to cross the border to escape. The economy is in ruins. Their human rights record is atrocious, and they operate a vast system of political prisons (GULAG-style).

China has only been doing well since they've liberalised their internal and external markets and have gone economically capitalist - but dissidents are still being arrested and imprisoned, and China uses the death penalty arbitrarily, even executing people for white-collar crimes during a "strike hard" campaign.

You really need to do some reading, mate.

Where did you get that information from ?!?!?? , Korea turning to cannibalism, one of the last remaining countries in cannibalism is PNG, i doubt North Korea is heading that way even if they are starving !!!, and you mean people trying to cross the border into democratic South Korea dont you ?

North Korea -- http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2792.htm

By the way , i read Alot of books Man of Stoat, and watch hours on end of War discovery most days, ( im not bragging or being hypocritical, just pointing a fact i do research alot of my information and sources).

[Man of Stoat]

North Korea is going quite well in their communist society, i dont think they will change??
Same with China, China has big trade with Australasia.

North Korea? You're having a laugh! There are people starving, resorting to cannibalism, and they're executing people caught trying to cross the border to escape. The economy is in ruins. Their human rights record is atrocious, and they operate a vast system of political prisons (GULAG-style).

China has only been doing well since they've liberalised their internal and external markets and have gone economically capitalist - but dissidents are still being arrested and imprisoned, and China uses the death penalty arbitrarily, even executing people for white-collar crimes during a "strike hard" campaign.

You really need to do some reading, mate.

Where did you get that information from ?!?!?? , Korea turning to cannibalism, one of the last remaining countries in cannibalism is PNG, i doubt North Korea is heading that way even if they are starving !!!, and you mean people trying to cross the border into democratic South Korea dont you ?

North Korea -- http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2792.htm

By the way , i read Alot of books Man of Stoat, and watch hours on end of War discovery most days, ( im not bragging or being hypocritical, just pointing a fact i do research alot of my information and sources).

Reports of starvation leading to cannibalism here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/06/08/wkor08.xml
http://www.gsreport.com/articles/art000017.html
http://www1.chapman.edu/wilkinson/socsci/sociology/Faculty/Babbie/e211/BiblioFiles/Rosenthal_1998.htm

And no, people are attempting to cross into China, and when caught are often executed by the North Koreans. It's almost impossible to cross the DMZ into South Korea.

[Commando Jordovski]

North Korea is going quite well in their communist society, i dont think they will change??
Same with China, China has big trade with Australasia.

North Korea? You're having a laugh! There are people starving, resorting to cannibalism, and they're executing people caught trying to cross the border to escape. The economy is in ruins. Their human rights record is atrocious, and they operate a vast system of political prisons (GULAG-style).

China has only been doing well since they've liberalised their internal and external markets and have gone economically capitalist - but dissidents are still being arrested and imprisoned, and China uses the death penalty arbitrarily, even executing people for white-collar crimes during a "strike hard" campaign.

You really need to do some reading, mate.

Where did you get that information from ?!?!?? , Korea turning to cannibalism, one of the last remaining countries in cannibalism is PNG, i doubt North Korea is heading that way even if they are starving !!!, and you mean people trying to cross the border into democratic South Korea dont you ?

North Korea -- http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2792.htm

By the way , i read Alot of books Man of Stoat, and watch hours on end of War discovery most days, ( im not bragging or being hypocritical, just pointing a fact i do research alot of my information and sources).

Reports of starvation leading to cannibalism here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/06/08/wkor08.xml
http://www.gsreport.com/articles/art000017.html
http://www1.chapman.edu/wilkinson/socsci/sociology/Faculty/Babbie/e211/BiblioFiles/Rosenthal_1998.htm

And no, people are attempting to cross into China, and when caught are often executed by the North Koreans. It's almost impossible to cross the DMZ into South Korea.

Now that has really shocked me :shock: , just a couple of days ago i was watching BBC news and they were saying how cannibalism is extinct apart from places in PNG.

[Firefly]

So all is not rosy in the Land of the Dear Leader, still he looks like he gets 3 square a day.

[Commando Jordovski]

So all is not rosy in the Land of the Dear Leader, still he looks like he gets 3 square a day.

:shock: :? ... what...sorry i dont understand ?

[Man of Stoat]

So all is not rosy in the Land of the Dear Leader, still he looks like he gets 3 square a day.

:shock: :? ... what...sorry i dont understand ?

He is a fat bar steward living in palaces not wanting for anything whilst his people are starving and resorting to cannibalism...

[Commando Jordovski]

So all is not rosy in the Land of the Dear Leader, still he looks like he gets 3 square a day.

:shock: :? ... what...sorry i dont understand ?

He is a fat bar steward living in palaces not wanting for anything whilst his people are starving and resorting to cannibalism...

It's how Stalin lived...

[South African Military]

Do you think when he comes out of office and not a leader anymore, there will be a fall in communism or such, or maybe he will be replaced with a trusting socialist member that castro knows.

If there is no obvious "heir", then it will fall quickly - infighting, and demands of free & fair elections. If it proves to be dynastic communism (like North Korea), it may fall a little slower, as demands for elections will probably be quashed.

North Korea is going quite well in their communist society, i dont think they will change??
Same with China, China has big trade with Australasia.

:shock: :shock: please give me one good reason why you ever thought North Korea was doing well with communism? Besides them spending mostly all their GNP on the military and currently triying to make nuclear bombs? (if you can call that a good reason).

[Commando Jordovski]

Do you think when he comes out of office and not a leader anymore, there will be a fall in communism or such, or maybe he will be replaced with a trusting socialist member that castro knows.

If there is no obvious "heir", then it will fall quickly - infighting, and demands of free & fair elections. If it proves to be dynastic communism (like North Korea), it may fall a little slower, as demands for elections will probably be quashed.

North Korea is going quite well in their communist society, i dont think they will change??
Same with China, China has big trade with Australasia.

:shock: :shock: please give me one good reason why you ever thought North Korea was doing well with communism? Besides them spending mostly all their GNP on the military and currently triying to make nuclear bombs? (if you can call that a good reason).

Well i didn't think they would change because of that fact you said pointed out, spending their money on the military and weapons of mass destruction instead of the people and well being.