Chinese Military

[Firenze]

Here let me post some infos of chinese military during world war 2!

[Firenze]

you know it's hard to translate those infos into english. :evil:
so please wait for some days let me find and translate them
thanks! :wink:

[Gen. Sandworm]

you know it's hard to translate those infos into english. :evil:
so please wait for some days let me find and translate them
thanks! :wink:

That would be great. :D I dont know much about the Chinese Military of WW2. Please feel free to add as much as you can. Welcome to the site.

[Firenze]

http://www.china.com.cn/images/145780.jpg

He Long(the left one). Leader of the 8th army, 120 Divisions.
this is a Army belongs to Communist Party

[Firenze]

http://image2.sina.com.cn/jc/2005-04-04/U1220P27T1D278209F3DT20050404190421.jpg

General Li Zongren at the Railway Station of Tai'erzhuang.
This photo was taken after the great victory in Tai'erzhuang(1938,4,8),
General Li Zongren belongs to Guomindang. Maybe the word Guomindang can be translated as Citizens' Party but may not pricise[/img]

[Firenze]

Chinese army prevent japanese army from advancing
Photo taken in Lin Yi where is near to Tai'erzhuang
http://image2.sina.com.cn/jc/2005-04-06/U36P27T1D278888F3DT20050406163948.jpg

[Firenze]

http://www.china.com.cn/images/145778.jpg
1st dep of United Anti-japanese army of East Hebei province[/img]

[Firenze]

http://www.china.com.cn/images/145826.jpg
Zhou Enlai with members of Xinsijun(Can be translated as the New 4th Army)
Zhou Enlai is one of the leaders of Communist Party of China and Xinsijun is an Communist Party Army

[Firenze]

http://www.china.com.cn/images/145847.jpg
guerilla of Southern China

[Firenze]

Qin Dynasty of China
1874
May. Japan send 3600+ military forces in to Taiwan Province of China.shed blood of local citizens
1894 Japan attack china Navy force at Feng Island. Heavy damaged Jiyuan and Guangyi(Both military). Sinked Gaosheng(Transport). and here start Jiawu Sea wars of Sino-japan.


...... (so long)
1900
United force of Japan, Russia, England, United States, Germany, French, Italian and Austria - Hungary Attacks Beijing(Capital of China). kills, rapes, robs ......

1914
WWI Breakout
japan acts in china
and Qin dynasty ends near this time.
(i can't remember precisely. at least in few years before or after)
1931
Matter 918 happens. Japan assault northern-east of china and seized there.
1933
No.731 force set up. this force use bacteria to fight and they do alive-test on citizens of china. photos will be provided later

1937
Matter of Lugouqiao(Bridge of Lugou) happens.
japan military force starts there total assault in china.
December 13rd.
Japan Forces seized the Nanjin, Capital of china in that time. kills burns rapes robs and made more than 300000 citizens. burns down about 1/3 houses of Nanjing.
this day was memorized by all chinese!
.....
it to long
japanese gets out of china in 1945
from 1938 to 1945, chinese forces, no matter just local guard force of some provinces or Military forces of communist party and Guomindang, all united to against japanese forces
from 1937 to 1945
there are only 8 provinces avoided war fires in this war.
more than 35000000 peoples of china dead in this time span.



WWII for chinese can understand as Anti-Japan war.
it's a great war that we chinese united to fight against japanese to keep our homeland!
my english is not good enough so i don't know which point i have not explain clearly.
for any misunderstandings
just post after this one or mail me :firenzemc@gmail.com
i will try my best to tell you:)

[Gen. Sandworm]

Great pictures. I hear there is still much tension between Japan and China today because of what the Japanese did during the occupation of Manchuria. Is this true???

[South African Military]

There is allot of tension between China and Japan because of allot of reasons. The most recent being, Koizumis visit to a Japanese shrine that is honouring the Japanese war dead of WW2.

BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4578387.stm

[FW-190 Pilot]

Qin dynasty end in year 1912, after qin's most powerful man, yuen, betrayed them and turn into the democracy side, however, he didnt do it for the country's good, he did it because he was offered to be prime minister. Qin government collapsed because all the military would only listen to yuen and refuse to fight for the qin dynasty against the rebell army

[FW-190 Pilot]

Great pictures. I hear there is still much tension between Japan and China today because of what the Japanese did during the occupation of Manchuria. Is this true???
dont know if that is the main reason or not, but killing over 200,000 people in nanking would build a lot of tension between japanese and chinese

[Bladensburg]

I think the lack of any evidence of Japanese contrition or even willingness to admit what they did also sours things.

[Firenze]

I'm really sorry that i didn't reply for such a long time
i have just travel to shanghai to do some investigation on ITS for my essay.


about the problems between japan and china.
may be all the reasons your provided is true.

Actually, i think german is much more better than japanese
at least they admit their fault in WWII
but most japanese never admit what they did in WWII
they told there citizens that they assult china is to build the "Eastern Asia Co-glory circuits"(i don't know is this translation is correct or not, sorry). they told their citizens they assult china to help chinese but what they actually did in china is destory and killing!
they kill so many lifes in nanking but that's already history. we can jus hold it in our memory but at least we want japanese, especially the youth to know what is the real history.
We can imagine. If all youth in japan learned that all the killings they did is to help other countrys, when they grow up and became adults, when they became the majority in japan government. what will they do? will they just "help" china? "help" Russia? or even help "the USA"?
hopes thats will not come true.

oh
so many have i said here
it's all my personal opinions
and my english is poor hopes you don't care:)
Thankyou and Danke
in china we say Thanks as Xiexie:)

[Firenze]

Hey everybody
Why no one replys?

[Gen. Sandworm]

Hey everybody
Why no one replys?

I was curious about how you think the Chinese of WW2 thought about Americans and how the Chinese think of Americans today. Dont worry about offending me (too much?) because ive heard just about everything. :D

[FW-190 Pilot]

i think the chinese should thank the US for defeating the japanese, without american, the chinese could have lost the war

as for how chinese people see american today, i do not think most chinese actually hates american, but they do hate american government, who
-sell weapon to taiwan to prevent two places to become one country again.

-American government is implementing tax on chinese product would hurt china's economy

-American's plane has crashed on chinese migs, but still not apologize for that

this should be the reasons why chinese would hate american's government
. Again, anti-american government does not mean anti-american
Thanks for reading

[Gen. Sandworm]

i want to post some pictures of modern chinese soliders, i don't know is it good to post theme here as it is a forum of WWII :?:
so


Keep this topic about WW2 Chinese. But feel free to start a Chinese Military topic in Off Topic - Militaria. You will see other topics like it. American, British and Argentinian. Would be interesting to see pics of the Modern Chinese Military. :D

If you want I can move the above post and start it for you.

[Firenze]

http://202.121.0.161/guangmx/shan-images/qibing.jpg
cavalvy?at Yan'an

[Firenze]

http://zg.people.com.cn/mediafile/200311/19/F2003111916113500000.jpg
Chairman Mao in the War of Resistance Against Japan
He is a great leader
though he have some faults later

[Firenze]

http://mil.eastday.com/epublish/gb/paper467/6/class046700003/image/img1341728_3.jpg

Jiang Jieshi and Song Meiling(his wife)
He is the leader of Kuomintang
the party supported by USA

[Firenze]

two leaders stand together
http://army.news.tom.com/img/assets/200311/031127145126a03112546.jpg

[FW-190 Pilot]

Thanks for your contribution, Firenze
if you have knowledge outside chinese military, please do not hesitate to post more
certainly i won't be hesitated to do that
so if you don't mind, i would start a chinese militry section in off topic-Militaria

[Firenze]

Thanks for your contribution, Firenze
if you have knowledge outside chinese military, please do not hesitate to post more
certainly i won't be hesitated to do that
so if you don't mind, i would start a chinese militry section in off topic-Militaria
That's OK

[Natxo]

Hello.
I am very interested in chinesemilitary history during ww2. Can someone ask me some questions?
Do someone know a goodweb site about the chinese army?
Can someone tell me about uniforms or equipment?

[Dani]

I suppose Firenze could help us.

[Firenze]

Hello.
I am very interested in chinesemilitary history during ww2. Can someone ask me some questions?
Do someone know a goodweb site about the chinese army?
Can someone tell me about uniforms or equipment?
Ah yep
let me try to help you
so
what do you want to know?
i can help you to search in chinese webs and book and translated them into english here.
about the uniforms and equip.s
let me try to find some pictures

[FW-190 Pilot]

sure, what kind of machine gun they used?
did the chinese use any other kind of planes except american ones?
thanks for answering

[Firenze]

first
websites
http://www.china918.net/en/index_en.htm
this might be one
it's about the 918 event
which marked as a symbol fo the start of the War of Resistance Against Japan
How can i describe that site...... :?
the owner of the site has a deeply angry against japan's war crime
but what they said is true
so
believe it or not
just look at the photos
they tell no lies

[Firenze]

http://www.china918.net/91807/newxp/images/news/118-1.jpg
I just found this photo
this was taken at a temple where japanese memorial their "hero"s in WWII
include the generals and commanders in WWII who incommanded the war against china, US and russia
this is one of important factors that chinese hate japanese(at least thost who do not accept what they did in WWII) :evil: :evil:

[Firenze]

just in case you didnt see
did the chinese use any other kind of planes except american ones?
thanks for answering

Don't be so worry :)
i'm searching
china have some aircrafts from CCCP besides american ones
actually in my memory, those american planes was just drived by american pilots :?
i'm not so sure......

[Firenze]

http://www.fstv.com.cn/drama/fstv/04-08-18-lsdtk/1.jpg


this picture was found at an introducing site of a teleplay
in that time, the uniform of communism armys was not so good like the one in the pictures
but it's similiar in style
oh
and they ware cloth shoes but not leather boots

[Firenze]

http://www.xsjp.com/bbs/UploadFile/2004-5/2004528175558340.jpg

picture of Kuomintang's army

http://www.xsjp.com/bbs/UploadFile/2004-5/2004528175437245.jpg

i found this photo
they says it's german style
i dont know....

[FW-190 Pilot]

the gernades are used by the germans, maybe thats why

[Firenze]

again some pictures of communist's army
http://www.chinamil.com.cn/pladaily/weapon/20000612/image/20000612012006.jpg

models with clothes of that time
the left one is the New Forth Army
and the right one is Eight Route Army

[Firenze]

the gernades are used by the germans, maybe thats why
oh yes
in a long times
china's militarys in main land use this kind of gernades(may be smaller, shorter)
i remember in deustech this kind of gernades has a word begin with st...
it seem you live in german, do you know the word?
if you know
just post it here
Danke:)

[Firenze]

about rifles and pistols...
communist's army in earlier time use many kind of weapons
some is captured from japanese soliders
some is produced by chinese factorys i don't know what does it like
later
some sub-machines guns from CCCP(PPS?)
i will try to find some pics

[Firenze]

http://www.jp.js.cn/junshi/21Hanyang.jpg
here is rifles producted by Hanyang,China
used in earlier time and even the end of Qin Dynasty


copy of Kar M1888

[Firenze]

http://image2.sina.com.cn/dy/c/2004-12-10/1102649004_19aWGD.jpg
This is called Zhongzheng rifle(Zhongzheng is Jiang Jieshi's(the leader of Kuomintang that time) name.

is is used later

imitated from Kar98k

[Firenze]

armies of communist party
the Red Army
(1927-1937)
The majority of Red Army is infantry, and only small numbers of Cavalry, Artillery, Signalman and Sappers.
Weapons mainly from enemies, use rifle, machine-gun, light-Artillery captured from enemy and even self-made cold steels like broadsword and pike.
from 1937,7-1945,9
the Red Army called the Eight Route Army. Some gathered guerillas from some mid and southern provinces get together and called the New Forth Army.
as they still acts behind enemy lines. the conditions are so bad that they had to still get weapons and supplies from enemy.
Actually the Army of Kuomintang is facing the main power of japanese military.
they have much more better equipments and supplies(almost all supplies from US have been given to them)


after WWII ended
the two forces i introduced is call people's liberty army(PLA), this name still in use now-days


translated from a website

[Firenze]

Planes
Aircraft as mainly owned by Kuomintang's forces
http://www.my1942.com//Article/UploadFiles/200407/20040726232340741.jpg
This is the kind of craft used by the beginner of China's AF, called Gao Zhi'hang

Il-16?

[Firenze]

http://www.my1942.com/Article/UploadFiles/200407/20040726232340457.jpg

This is Gao Zhi'hang
he died in 1937,11,21
japanese AF assult the airport
he try to start the engine to takeoff and fight
but his plane failed to start for 3 times and he was killed by bombs

[Firenze]

http://www.my1942.com/Article/UploadFiles/200407/20040726232341642.jpg
hawk(??)II

http://www.my1942.com/Article/UploadFiles/200407/20040726232342334.jpg

Il-15

http://www.my1942.com/Article/UploadFiles/200407/20040726232342524.jpg

Il-15-2



these planes is used later

mainly from CCCP

[Firenze]

about flying tigers
http://www.my1942.com/Article/UploadFiles/200407/20040726232342524.jpg
p-40 is the main craft used by flying tigers
this is the photo taken in Burma
flying tiger mainly act in Burma and southern-west(mainly Yun'nan Province) of China

[Firenze]

American Volunteer Group (The flying tigers)

infos can be found athttp://www.flyingtigersavg.com/

[Natxo]

I have read about German an Czech machineguns in chinese service.
The rifles were mauser tipe ones. It seems that te Luger authomatic gun, with the wooden but was really popular.

[Dani]

the gernades are used by the germans, maybe thats why
And also the helmet looks to be in German style.

[Dani]

i remember in deustech this kind of gernades has a word begin with st...
it seem you live in german, do you know the word?
if you know
just post it here
Danke:)
Stielhandgranate :D
http://www.dasheer.org.uk/other_weapons.htm
I know only few words in German.

[Firenze]

I have read about German an Czech machineguns in chinese service.
The rifles were mauser tipe ones. It seems that te Luger authomatic gun, with the wooden but was really popular.

Oh yes
there a Czech machineguns used by chinese forces
I found i discriptions by a old solider of that time said they use a czech machinegun hit a japanese dive-bomber down.
it seem such machinegun is really powerful :twisted:

[Man of Stoat]

Inglis in Canada also produced the BREN for the Chinese in 7.92mm Mauser - there was a guy firing one on a TV documentary - it was a bit confusing, cos I thought "aah, BREN. But the mag's straight. Must be an L4. But this is about WW2 MGs. WTF?" And then he explained.

[Walther]

At the end of WW1, Germany had huge stocks of steel helmts left over, which got sold to China. Later the Koumintang troops got trained by German officers, which surprisingly made Germans fighting Japanese. Chiang Kai Chek´s son was actually trained in Germany, I´ve seen pictures of him in a SS uniform.
In the mid 30s, Chinese troops were often equiped with German P35 helmets.

Jan

[Dani]

Interesting link:
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/brochures/72-38/72-38.htm

Some pics from the site cited above:
American trainer explains a tactical situation to Chinese soldiers.
http://img193.echo.cx/img193/4820/ph28ol.jpg


Chinese soldiers receive training in use of the bayonet.
http://img193.echo.cx/img193/3194/ph49pf.jpg

[Dani]

Nationalist Chinese Army insignia of rank:
http://www2.powercom.net/~rokats/wwiichin.html

[Natxo]

Hello
Excuse me Firenze. Can you tell me what is written in the page www.swallow.com.tw/military/chinese.htm ???
It´s an interesting web, there are drawings and photos of german styled chinese equipment.
I´m really interested in the curved swords. What is that? Had the chinese soldiers a sword and a bayonet???

[Firenze]

Interesting link:
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/brochures/72-38/72-38.htm

Some pics from the site cited above:
American trainer explains a tactical situation to Chinese soldiers.
http://img193.echo.cx/img193/4820/ph28ol.jpg


Chinese soldiers receive training in use of the bayonet.
http://img193.echo.cx/img193/3194/ph49pf.jpg

i found another picture in the link you provided
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/brochures/72-38/ph5.JPG
then it's clear that this is the provided tutor for kuomintang army(i just found the translation shall be Nationalism Army)
the place is told as Kweiming, so it shall spells in chinese Kun Ming
it's a city in southern-west of china. it's near the base of the flying tigers

[Firenze]

Hello
Excuse me Firenze. Can you tell me what is written in the page www.swallow.com.tw/military/chinese.htm ???
It´s an interesting web, there are drawings and photos of german styled chinese equipment.
I´m really interested in the curved swords. What is that? Had the chinese soldiers a sword and a bayonet???



it's really a huge job :wink:
i'll try my best!

[Firenze]

i don't know whether your pc can display chinese correctly or not
so i will put english text just followed chinese text

[Firenze]

Chinese Military History



????

***

ROC MILITARY
?????????

*** German tool in WW2 China
?????????????

*** Mauser bayonet of WW2 China
???????? *** Puttee of WW2 China
??????M35?? *** German M35 helmet of WW2 China
?????? *** officer sword of WW2 China
?????? *** WW2 Japan military stuff in China
1936??????? *** 1936 MODERN WARFARE GRAVURE
??????????


?

??????????????????
1935?1??????????1936?6????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????M35?????????????
in the war against japan, nationalism army(i will just wright as NArmy in the followed text) is ordered from german and in german styles
1935,1 NArmy ordered from german, 1936,6 such uniforms and equipments are sent to central troops of NArmy.
in the battle of Shanghai, the soldiers attacks japanese is wearing green summer uniform, with both long and shot pants. Normally, they wear cap. when in battle, they use helmet(M35 style). beside these, the also use puttee and wear black clothe shoes.


??????????50???????????????????88??87??36????????? ??????????????????????????????????????M35???
NArmy originally planed to buy equips for 50 divisions. but such equips have not been produced in full numbers. in the beginning, the 88,87,36,3 divisions are equipped with all-german equipments, others are not fully equipped with german equipments. as data shows, NArmy bought more than 10mega m35 helmets


?????(Rifleman of NArmy) ??(Officer) ?????????????(Petty Officer with mauser pistol)
??????????224cm??9.5cm??????????(puttee 224cm*9.5cm)

??M35??????????(helmet of NArmy) ??????? (????)(cap of NArmy)

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????98K???
(Rifleman's standard equipment: this is the view form left-behind. a rifleman have to sailcloth cartridge belt. to gernade in the front. with bottle and food in the right side. Certral Troops sometimes have gas mask. in the lower-left is 98k sword)

???????????????????(personal infos is marked in the upper side of pocket of upper-left ) ?????????88D??88??(belonging is marked on the left upper arm, 88D means the 88th Division)
??????????????(the standard weapons for infantry during the war against japanese)


??????????????"??"?????????????"????"??????????K98????????????????????????????????"?"???????"?"??(Zhongzheng Rifle. belongs to "Mauser series" in international standard, not like japanese rifle is belongs to "mauser or similar". Zhongzheng rifle shall be produced by chart and data bought from german of K98. japanese rifle is researched by them selves.
the upper one is style 2 and lower one is style 1)

????????????()
1935?"H.Y."??????????????????????????(1935 HY(Hanyang, the place where the war-factory in) the sword is produced in Hanyang, it's similar with mauser sword of other countries)

?????????????(with rings and without plate
)
??????????????(cleaning rod and be insert into holder. with scupper)
???????????????(specially, there is scupper in she shell too)?
????????????????????(the north east army once used a butcher's sword of german)
?????????????????????(butcher's sword of german army of WWI, it's big and suitable for hew)
???????????????????????????????????kar98?????????? ??????????(as it's strong enough, it do not need rings to hew. there is a plate in the back, it's the special point of kar98 sword. the point can not be found at non-mauser swords)
???????????????????????????????????????????(...... )
????????????(......)
??????????(......)
?????(Hi-Power Pistol gunstock)
???"???"??(Hi-power)????????????????? ?????????(it a gunstock for Canadian's Hi-Power Pistol, make by a whole wood and can be used as a case. this style is a smaller one)
[VIEW3]

??????(cartridge case of Hi-Power Pistol)
??????? ???????????
[VIEW2] [VIEW3]

????
???????75cm?(Broadsword used to against japanese(such weapon always used by communism armies in earlier times, especially in the red army)) [you can just imagine how our worriers use this to fight against japanese, in such a conditions, we still win the war!]
[VIEW2]

???????75cm?(another kind of broadsword)
[VIEW2] [VIEW3]

??????
???????
[VIEW2] [VIEW3]






it's so long:(......

[Firenze]

some code is not right
so it displayed as ???????
it's ok
just read the english script followed those ???????s
the address of original site is http://www.swallow.com.tw/military/

just read my text and view the pics in that site:)

[Firenze]

Hello
Excuse me Firenze. Can you tell me what is written in the page www.swallow.com.tw/military/chinese.htm ???
It´s an interesting web, there are drawings and photos of german styled chinese equipment.
I´m really interested in the curved swords. What is that? Had the chinese soldiers a sword and a bayonet???

communism army in earlier times use sword as there weapons too, especially for civilian-soliders
they can be farmers, but, when japanese attacks their homeland, they use everything, include those swords to fight against japanese.
some farmers even got killed to protect those injured soliders from communism armies

[Natxo]

Thank You Firenze
I think that it ir a great web. It is really interesting that about the swords.

[Firenze]

Thank You Firenze
I think that it ir a great web. It is really interesting that about the swords.
It's my pleasure:)
it's a website located in Taiwan
i'd mostly want to find a site intorduce armies of communist, but seem it's hard to find one :cry:

[Axe]

Here is one English site about that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Japanese_War_(1937-1945)

[Hanz Lutz]

wikipedia :lol: :lol:

[Axe]

Yes! Wikipedia is realy a good site.

[Hanz Lutz]

Yes wikipedia is good site ,if you ever want to put some from wikipedia then put and URL of link :lol: trust me I know why I telling you this. :wink:

[Dani]

Yes wikipedia is good site ,if you ever want to put some from wikipedia then put and URL of link :lol: trust me I know why I telling you this. :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: No offense intended Clauss! :D

[Hanz Lutz]

I am not upset becouse that ,and no offense . :wink:

[Axe]

Yes wikipedia is good site ,if you ever want to put some from wikipedia then put and URL of link :lol: trust me I know why I telling you this. :wink:
I am sorry that I couldn't understand your words clearly for I am not good at English. I'll be very glad if you could explain it for me. Thank you. If I had done something wrong, I will correct it immediately.

[Hanz Lutz]

No you did nothing wrong I did early do copy paste from wikipedia ,and I been never put link ,and they are tell me do not do that and my english is not very good. :wink:

[Axe]

Thank you for your reply.
Let's continue the discussion about Chinese military.

[Hanz Lutz]

All right Chinese army hm............i did not know much about chinese army.

[Natxo]

Hey
Thenew Osprey book about the Chinese Army is great. I´m sorry, Firenze, but they write only about the nationalist army.

In fact, the information isnot very clear, but showssome interesting photographs and a great amount ofstrange equipment.

[Hosenfield]

ah, the powerful chinese army. shock troops armed with mauser pistols and a large portion armed with sabers!


http://www.legendshobbies.com/sic/sic-k002/box-p1.jpg

[Hanz Lutz]

Armed with AK-47 and SKS Simonov. :wink:

[Hosenfield]

in ww2.!

[Hanz Lutz]

in ww2.!

A ok sorry :roll:

[Axe]

Chinese army no longer use AK now.

[Sturmtruppen]

Chinese army no longer use AK now.
nice,they will repleace it with a better weapon?

[Cuts]

Chinese army no longer use AK now.

Really ?
What do they use now then ?

[Hanz Lutz]

They use AK-47 thats standard rifle :wink:

[Sturmtruppen]

They use AK-47 thats standard rifle :wink:
yes,but axe said that they will change it

[Hosenfield]

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as48-e.htm

these are the chinese weapons.

the majority of the chinese army uses ak-47 copies/ or ak-47 based weapons. the bullpup special rifle is given to chinese special forces.

[Hanz Lutz]

They use AK-47 thats standard rifle :wink:
yes,but axe said that they will change it

Nahh read Hosenfield post :wink: all chinese weapons based on soviets ,so AK-47 is primary weapon i think they are no replace it.

How many rifles they must buy :shock: .

Maybe 30 millions M-16 :lol: :lol: :lol:

[leemny]

Chinese army no longer use AK now.
nice,they will repleace it with a better weapon?

hello . I can answer your question with pics

http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_877/publicphotos/4_504108.jpg

the new automatic weapon just named "95" because the product year :D

[Man of Stoat]

OMG, it's a bullpup. Why oh why oh why oh why???

[Hosenfield]

whats wrong with bullpup weapons?

[Man of Stoat]

Try putting one to your left shoulder and firing it. You'll only do it once!*

Then, realising that you cannot fire it from the left shoulder, work out how to shoot around the left side of cover without exposing your body.

*unless it's a FN 2000 or a correctly adjusted FAMAS or AUG. If so, put it to your right shoulder and do the same thing.

[Firefly]

Do you think it makes that big of a diffrence? If it did so, then why do so many armies around the world use them?

[Man of Stoat]

in NATO, only the SA-80 cannot be adjusted to fire left-handed. AFAIK, these new AK-based ones also cannot. An SA-80 LH prototype was produced, but rejected on cost grounds.

12 countries use the AUG (a lot of those have also other 5.56mm rifles on inventory), a couple use the FAMAS, and basically only the UK uses the SA-80 (some were fobbed off on a couple of countries). So that's no more than about 20 countries that have bullpups on inventory, out of 190-ish countries - so about 10% of countries use them. Not exactly a huge number.

The US rejected the idea of bullpups for "tactical reasons", and the latest FN bullpup design goes to great engineering lengths to be fired from either shoulder, so I'd say that it must make some reasonable amount of difference, otherwise the US wouldn't object, and FN wouldn't have bothered. I'd certainly hate to have to expose my body to fire around the left-side of cover!

[Firefly]

Interesting, I wonder if any member of the UK Army here has any experience with it and how much of a problem they find it. Ive never had a problem but then again Im not in the Army!

[Man of Stoat]

I was in the TA, and was never on a 2-way range so it was never a practical issue for me. You'll find that a lot of those who don't think it's a problem are post-SLR era, since they don't know any different. Some people who are heavily left-eye dominant can't shoot for toffee with it for obvious reasons.

I shoot IPSC rifle, and enjoy the schadenfreude of watching people with bullpups/heavily customised ARs who can't shoot from the left shoulder trying to twist their bodies around to take left-of-cover shots without going over the fault line!

Cuts has some seriously strong views about bullpups...

[Natxo]

There are a lot of non bull pup rifles which don´t have versions for left handad shooters. An example is the H&K G36. It is not necessary since the cartridge is expelled to the front right side, so a left handed will not be hit by the cartridge

[Natxo]

Can wereturn to the topic???? You know chinese army in the WW2.
Do anybody know if the comunist army employed something similar tothe commisars?

Does the nationalist army employed anti-tank rifles?

[Landstorm]

No the nationalists don't have anti tank rifles. In fact they only have the very basic infantry weapons.

As for the communists, they had commisars in the army but they have completely different functions to the Russians.

[Natxo]

In fact, I read in the web that chinese nationalist used the solothurn AT rifle.
About the comissars, they didn´t go to combat with the soldiers?

[Landstorm]

Not really. their places are more in the commanding posts to moderate the commanding of the battle. Of course when time comes (When not many soldiers left) they do join the battle, in fact some of the high ranking officers did that too, and most of them are killed. Any way when the commisars join in the fight they are just like an ordinary soldier. And they do not shoot the run aways like the russian commisars did (because their weren't any, we fought to the last man!!)

[Natxo]

I would like to know if someone can tell me about the smallest level organization of the chinese (nationalist and communist) armies.
It´s just for playing wargames.

Which kind of support weapons did they employ with the company?
I have read about MG, LMG and light mortars.

[FW-190 Pilot]

anyways, my grandfather is not an infantry unit in china, but the japanese air unit thought he is when my grandfathe is carrying some heavy bag. The japanese air pilot thought he is transfering goods for the chinese army and starts to shoot at him. lucky for my grandfather that the bullets did not hit him, but instead hit within 1-2 feet from his two arms.

[zstar]

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6880/post1711355677922xq.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4255/post1711355678291fs.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2060/post1711355678752rf.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8615/post1711355679105bz.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8164/post1711355679500lj.jpg

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/652/post1711355679920cw.jpg

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/4117/post1711355677035ez.jpg

[FW-190 Pilot]

wow, those are just amazing pictures
the british even has surplus tommy gun for the chinese?

[Man of Stoat]

wow, those are just amazing pictures
the british even has surplus tommy gun for the chinese?

FW190, I suggest you play a game of "spot the deliberate mistake" with that post

[zstar]

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3162/1628xo.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7476/post1711296464787nr.jpg

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/4052/post1711312974089po.jpg

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/9254/post1711295267755pz.jpg

[zstar]

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/561/post1711295267417rr.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3599/post1711312975495uq.jpg

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9692/post1711299369165bi.jpg

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5999/post1711272772910js.jpg

[Natxo]

The Pic with the belgian automatic rifles is great.

Tell me, the anti-aircraft gun is a german on, isn´t it?

[Natxo]

I will like to know something about the chinese armoured forces.

What colour did the L3 tankettes used. I have seen a lot of different schemes, including cammo.

[zstar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cImlzBzhq3U

A movie depiction of an ambush.