Argentinian Military

[Sturmtruppen]

Here some argentinian condecorations

Argentinian order of military merit:
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/MMerit/MmeritIS.jpg

Argentinian orders of naval merit:
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/NM/NMI.jpg
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/NM/NMIrev.jpg
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/NM/NMIS.jpg

Argentinian orders of merit:
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/Merit/MeritI.jpg
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/Merit/MeritI2.jpg
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/Merit/MeritI1.jpg
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/Merit/MeritI3.jpg
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/Merit/MeritI3rev.jpg
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/Merit/MeritIS.jpg
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/Merit/MeritIV.jpg


my favourite is:
Argentinian order of military merit:
http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/America/Argentina/MMerit/MmeritIS.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

Here is the tank TAM,the standart argentinian light tank:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/TAM%20%20JMB_jpg.jpg
http://arms.host.sk/tanks/tam.jpg
http://rt002ycj.eresmas.net/prueba2/tam.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/ArmyReco/Amerique_du_sud/Argentine/vehicules_lourds/TAM/TAM_argentine_01.jpg

TAM TANK INFO:

The development contract of the TAM Light Tank, was signed between the German "Thyssen Henschel" company and Argentine government at the beginning of 70-ties.

STATISTICS:
Entered service in 1979
Crew 4
Dimensions and weight
Total weight in combat order 30 t
Overall length 8 230 mm
Chassis length 6 775 mm
Overall width 3 120 mm
Overall height 2 420 mm
Armament
Main gun L7A2 105-mm Rifled Gun
Machine guns 2 x 7.62-mm
Traverse range 360 degrees
Combat load
Main gun 50 rounds
Machine guns 6 000 cartridges
Mobility
Engine power 720 hp.
Maximum road speed 75 km/h
Autonomy on roads 550 km (1 000 km with additional fuel tanks)
Maneuverability
Slope 60°
Vertical step 0.9 m
Trench 2.9 m
Ford unprepared 1.4 m
Ford with preparation 4 m



the VCA is the argentinian standart artillery vehicle
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/SINPRODE2002/images/SINPRODE21.JPG
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/VCA%20155mm%20(1)%20JMB_jpg.jpg

(I can`t find vca info :( )[/img]

[Sturmtruppen]

ARGENTINIAN SOLDIERS PHOTOS:

Argentinian Marines:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/ARA/images/Soldados%20(2)%20JMB_jpg.jpg

RSB-70 on AM-35A3:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/ARA/images/RSB-70%20JMB_jpg.jpg

Camouflaged Soldiers:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/Una%20seccion%20de%20asalto%20mostrando%20parte%20 de%20su%20armamento_jpg.jpg

M72 Prepared to shoot:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/Disparando%20el%20M72_jpg.jpg

M72 shooting!:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/Entrenando%20con%20LAW_jpg.jpg

Team including a M72 and a Mortar:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/Equipos%20con%20M-72_jpg.jpg

Arming FM of 120 MM:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/Armando%20un%20FM%20de%20120%20mm_jpg.jpg

Team:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/casco%20CABAL%20chalecos%20Montana%20y%20SEM%2052S _jpg.jpg

Mortar Team:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/practicas%20con%20Mortero%20FM%20Cal%2060%20mm%20C OMMANDO%20FMk2%20Mod_0_jpg.jpg

[Gen. Sandworm]

Im going to calll you E.S.A for the moment coz its easy. I love your post about the present Argentinaian military. Some really good picks. Im sure you know why this is in off topic. I hope others will post about current military's in there countries. Maybe i should start one about the US but I dont think i know enough. Are there any US soliders out there that can help???

[Sturmtruppen]

Im going to calll you E.S.A for the moment coz its easy. I love your post about the present Argentinaian military. Some really good picks. Im sure you know why this is in off topic. I hope others will post about current military's in there countries. Maybe i should start one about the US but I dont think i know enough. Are there any US soliders out there that can help???


search in the us military page,like i did with argentinian military in this post.
:wink:

[Sturmtruppen]

Argentinian Aircrafts:

T-34C-1 Turbo Mentor:

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAPI04/images/CDSCI0138_JPG.jpg

T-34C-1:

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAPI04/images/CDSCI0140_JPG.jpg

1-A-407:

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAPI04/images/CDSCI0147_JPG.jpg

IAI Mirage Finger IIIA:

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/FAA/images/mirge_3_jpg.jpg

A-4AR:

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/FAA/images/DSCN0160_JPG.jpg

PAMPA:

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/FAA/images/DSCN0157_JPG.jpg

[FW-190 Pilot]

i hope your pics are from mesuem, not the current aircraft they are having now, if those are the current planes argentina is using, they are so screwed
if you want to have some chance to win against british, your government should be going for at least F-14 and F-16 (or simuliar type of aircraft)
however, those are really good pics, i like it

[Sturmtruppen]

i hope your pics are from mesuem, not the current aircraft they are having now, if those are the current planes argentina is using, they are so screwed
if you want to have some chance to win against british, your government should be going for at least F-14 and F-16 (or simuliar type of aircraft)
however, those are really good pics, i like it

they`re planes used in malvinas,and of old abandoned hangars,i took some of them!!! :) (using imageshack help).

i don`t know what planes do we use now. :roll:

[Sturmtruppen]

HEAVY ARMOURED VCA:

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA04/images/BArt40_JPG.jpg

VTCM:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA04/images/Mor01_JPG.jpg

INFANTRY OF THE ARGENTINIAN ARMY ARMY:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/Infanteria%20EA%20JMB_jpg.jpg

EHNANCED AML-90
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/AML%2090%20F1%20(2)%20JMB_jpg.jpg

Ca NBQ of B Ing 601
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/Ca%20NBQ%20del%20B%20Ing%20601%20JMB_jpg.jpg

CITER:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/Artilleria%20155mm%20JMB_jpg.jpg

TRUCK SEMI-SLUG:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/Semioruga%20repotenciado_JPG.jpg

M-548A1:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/M-548A1%20JMB_jpg.jpg

M113A2:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/M113A2_jpg.jpg

UNIMOG:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/Unimog_jpg.jpg

[Gen. Sandworm]

Good pics...........however i have to say F**K riding that AML-90 into battle. Looks like someone took a recon vehicle and stuck a tank turret on top. I think you will find that will attract alot of heavy fire from tanks and planes. Which is bad for the people riding in it. In well concealed areas such as forests im sure it would be great but out in the open seems like it would be nothing more than a death trap. :|

[Sturmtruppen]

Good pics...........however i have to say F**K riding that AML-90 into battle. Looks like someone took a recon vehicle and stuck a tank turret on top. I think you will find that will attract alot of heavy fire from tanks and planes. Which is bad for the people riding in it. In well concealed areas such as forests im sure it would be great but out in the open seems like it would be nothing more than a death trap. :|

yes!,the most light vehicle in argentinian army,AML-90 works as explorer,but now,that vehicle is replaced by the hummer,or humvee (it`s good writed??)
but it`s still in military desfiles (desfile is when the army shows their units to the people in the city).

,some photos here are old,for ex,aircraft from malvinas war (1982),and other are new for ex:heavy armoured VCA.

[Sturmtruppen]

MORE PHOTOS:

SK-105
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/SanMiguel2002/images/SM020077.JPG

M52A2
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/SanMiguel2002/images/SM020080.JPG

Mirage IIIEA
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/G6C/images/9738_13.jpg

M-IIIEA
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/G6C/images/7373_05.jpg

Argentinian mirage pilots with their aircraft
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/G6C/images/23.jpg

M-IIIEA
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/G6C/images/47.jpg

new photos are coming!.

Edited by Gen. Sandworm. No more pics or post about the Falklands/Malvinas. :evil: .
-OK

[Sturmtruppen]

More:

FAP (heavy automatic rifle):
http://saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/FAP_JPG.jpg (this weapon was for the soldiers addapting the docrine "change technology and easy use for heavy fire power and automatic capacity"

FM 81 mm Liv (mortar)
http://saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/FM%2081%20mm_JPG.jpg

The argentinian army has in use,lots of M-16,but the prefered is the FAL,because it has a long history in our armed forces:
http://saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/fusiles%20y%20carabinas%20M-16%20de%20la%20Cia%20de%20Cdo(s)%20601_JPG.jpg

M2HB (really nice mg)
http://saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/M2HB_JPG.jpg

MAG 7.62 and Instalaza
http://saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/MAG%20e%20Instalaza%20300_JPG.jpg

Regminton R700 M24 ( :) )
http://saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/Regminton%20R700%20M24_JPG.jpg

Argentine model of colt:
http://www.sightm1911.com/1911pix/historic/Argentine_Army_Colt_Model_1927_serial_close_up.jpg

Steyr AUG FAA and FAL (our predilected rifle)
http://saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/Steyr%20AUG%20FAA%20y%20FAL%20de%20la%20Ca%20Cdos( s)%20601_JPG.jpg

[Bluffcove]

if the Second mirage from the bottom is still in service it sure looks like it could do with a lick of paint!

Where is the respect? infact the 81mm MORTAR and MAG 7.62 all look a bit chipped and beaten up! "display peices?" bit gnarly, to me!

[Sturmtruppen]

Where is the respect? infact the 81mm MORTAR and MAG 7.62 all look a bit chipped and beaten up! "display peices?" bit gnarly, to me!

the 81mm mortar and mag 7.62 are in service today,but in the photo,those have more than 15 years,that`s why they look chipped,they are for showing to the people,the photos are from a exposition in buenos aires of our army.


if the Second mirage from the bottom is still in service it sure looks like it could do with a lick of paint!

what mirage are you talking about?,sorry,don`t understand your comment,my english sucks
did you talk about this:http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/G6C/images/9738_13.jpg

some of them aren`t in service,this photos aren`t all in service now,the chipped and little destroyed units are from the exposition or hangar,the new and brightly units are new.

[Bluffcove]

The one below the aircraft you showed looks like its been decommsioned for about 20 years, its got rain marks, chipped paint and scabby artwork.

Being 15 years old is no excuse to look rough, you can still maintain your weapons especially if they are display models what sort of message do you give to the world stage as an armed force when your gear is in rag order!

[Cuts]

......

Argentine model of colt:
http://www.sightm1911.com/1911pix/historic/Argentine_Army_Colt_Model_1927_serial_close_up.jpg

......

The pistol in the close-up looks like it has a 1911 style trig. although the proximity does not indicate if it was a Colt or Rosario manufactured item.
The serial number could be from either.

However most of those retrieved from the Argentine Military's last adventure were the Ballester-Molina.
This is similar to the 1911A1 in some ways, but mechanically bears more resemblance to the Star Model B, (and of course the Model P,)
from which I believe it was copied by the Hispano factory, (HAFDASA,) albeit in 45 ACP.

This is the Ballester-Molina:
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/ballester_molina_350.jpg
1911 buffs will immediately notice differences even before it's been stripped.

By the way about twenty-three years back the officers in the POW pen were allowed to keep them for self defence after they'd jacked, as so
many of their troops had lost the plot and wanted to slot them !

[Sturmtruppen]

http://www.sightm1911.com/1911pix/historic/Argentine_Army_Colt_Model_1927_serial_close_up.jpg

this is the 1927 mod,that`s the unique i found.

[Bluffcove]

its says 8327 by the looks of it and as ManofStoat says, this is more likely the serial number, than a date of manufacture, I wait to be corrected though as I cannot be sure.

[Sturmtruppen]

its says 8327 by the looks of it and as ManofStoat says, this is more likely the serial number, than a date of manufacture, I wait to be corrected though as I cannot be sure.

the date of this pistol is 1927 ,the same year of the model

[Bluffcove]

Seen

My bad,

All apologies.

[Sturmtruppen]

Seen

My bad,

All apologies.

no prob mate :wink:

[Sturmtruppen]

FMK-3
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/ENU/images/Inf%20fmk3%20via%20EU_jpg.jpg
http://www.prexis.com/sten/parts_kit.JPG
The FMK-3 submachine gun was developed by Fabricaciones Militares company of Argentina circa 1974 and is being manufactured by Small Arms factory of Domingo Matheu. It is used by Army and Police of Argentina, and also, in semi-automatic version is sold to civilians under the name of FMK-5.

FMK-3 is a blowback-operated, selective fire submachine gun. It uses telescoped bolt, that sleeves around the rear part of the barrel when closed. Double stak magazine is inserted into the pistol grip. Receiver and pistol grip is made from steel stampings, safety/fire selector switch is located at the left side of the weapon above the pistol grip. There also is an automated grip safety at the rear of the pistol grip. The sights are of flip-up type with "L"-shaped rear sight blade, marked for range of 50 and 100 meters. The retractable buttstock is made from steel wire.

It is said that FMK-3 is quite comfortable to use and accurate in full-auto, putting all hits into 125 mm (5 inches) groups when firing offhand at 50 meters (short bursts, obviously).

(this weapon isn`t in service,but civilians can use it,obviousty,buying a weapon license and training for use weapons.)

FABRICATED BY :http://www.fab-militares.gov.ar/images/fm.jpg
Fabricaciones militares (FM)(military fabrications)

the creator of FM:http://www.fapolex.com.ar/images/savio2.jpg manuel nicolas savio.




the investigation works by: http://www.srt.gov.ar/nvaweb/publicaciones/NoticiaSRT/91/CITEFA.gif

citefa made this missile:

AS-25k
http://www.machtres.com/citefa_1.jpg
http://www.machtres.com/citefa_2.jpg.

[Sturmtruppen]

Argentinian air force (who has the honour of having the best pilots in the world)

Main Marking
http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/americas/arg/argrdl1.gif


im going to find some info about faa (fuerza aerea argentina/argentinian air force).

[festamus]

Ahhhhhhh. Skyhawk! What a classic!

Notice - an aircraft so bloody compact and neatly done at inception that later in life they had to give it a hump-back just to fit more avionics kit in!

[Walther]

if the Second mirage from the bottom is still in service it sure looks like it could do with a lick of paint!

Where is the respect? infact the 81mm MORTAR and MAG 7.62 all look a bit chipped and beaten up! "display peices?" bit gnarly, to me!

I remember the last open door day of the British forces in RAF Gatow in West Berlin in 1994, just before the Allies withdrew. They had a very dirty Chieftain MBT for display, and when I went inside, I discovered that it was full of live ammo.
I talked to the squaddy, who was explaining the tank, and he told me that they had one tank especially cleaned for the display, but due to some reason, it caught fire the day before the display, so they had to take a tank from their ready unit... :shock:

Jan

[Sturmtruppen]

ARGENTINIAN ARMY PHOTOS:
Lohr and Heavy Mor FM Liv Ref of 120 mm
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/Lohr%20y%20Mor%20Pes%20FM%20Liv%20Ref%20de%20120%2 0mm_jpg.jpg
Vela
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/VELA%20subiendo%20una%20loma_jpg.jpg
Infantry with a lohr
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/Infantes%20y%20Lohr_jpg.jpg
Grenadiers
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/Granadas%20de%2060%20mm%20explotando_jpg.jpg
Assault team
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/Asalto%20con%20equipo%20NBQ_jpg.jpg
Boat
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/SINPRODE2002/images/SINPRODE22.JPG
VCA with thunder direction
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/SINPRODE04/images/A_1DSCN9448_jpg.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

ARGENTINIANS UNIFORMS DURING WW2
they were based in the german uniforms,because,the half part of the officers and a big part of soldiers and sub-officers were germans emigrated before great war (WW1),some of them usually used the nazi uniform.
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/argvick.jpg
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/arg16.jpg
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/arg3516f.jpg
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/argpalom.jpg
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/argperro.jpg
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/arg1836f.jpg
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/arg3838a.jpg
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/argart35.jpg

all of the troops are argentinian,the uniform too!,and helmets are made in switzerland.

[student-scaley]

¿Qué es el tamaño actual del ejército argentino?

[Sturmtruppen]

¿Qué es el tamaño actual del ejército argentino?
what´s the actual size of argentinian army?,i don´t know,but,if you´re reffering to number of troops,it´s really small,we have good equipments - or + modern ,our troops are very well trained (much better than 1982!!!),and actually the morale is high.but you can´t compare this army with the army of usa or germany,because we have a small number of troops.
we have too gendarmeria defending limits of argentina,if there is a war,the gendarmeria has permission to kill everybody in the enemy side to protect our security.

[student-scaley]

if there is a war,the gendarmeria has permission to kill everybody in the enemy side to protect our security.

¡Debo esperar tan!

[student-scaley]

Encontré un sitio web que tiene los números para el ejército de Argentina

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/argentina/army.htm

[Sturmtruppen]

Encontré un sitio web que tiene los números para el ejército de Argentina

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/argentina/army.htm
muchas gracias,me son muy utiles!

[Sturmtruppen]

if there is a war,the gendarmeria has permission to kill everybody in the enemy side to protect our security.

¡Debo esperar tan!

excuse me,i don´t understand,it´s bad translated,it says, i must wait!...

can you say it in english please

[student-scaley]

I meant to say 'i should think so'

[Sturmtruppen]

Argentinian Military Ranks:
http://img158.echo.cx/img158/1512/argentinianmilitaryranks4rs.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

Argentinian Army
http://www.ejercito.mil.ar/Inicio/Imagenes/slide7.gifhttp://www.ejercito.mil.ar/Inicio/Imagenes/slide5.gifhttp://www.ejercito.mil.ar/Inicio/Imagenes/slide6.gif

[pdf27]

Argentinian Army
Errr... Argentine private hiding behind a polar bear in a snowstorm on a glacier? All I see is a white rectangle!

Edit: dammit, it's appeared now :evil:

[Sturmtruppen]

Argentinian Army
Errr... Argentine private hiding behind a polar bear in a snowstorm on a glacier? All I see is a white rectangle!

Edit: dammit, it's appeared now :evil:
What???

i never put insults in the british military topic.

[Crab_to_be]

Ay! Ay! Calm down Erwin. He's not being rude about the Argentinians.

All he could see is a white square, so he suggested that any Argentine military presence was behind a white object, against a white background. Evidently the comment translated rather badly.

[Sturmtruppen]

sorry,thanks for help crab,i had a bad translation,but i use the best translator, http://translation.langenberg.com/

[South African Military]

eehhh, I dont get it? :?

[Sturmtruppen]

eehhh, I dont get it? :?

you have more than 6 tipes of translator there,i used one of them,i think you used another,and i translate to spanish latin america :( .

[South African Military]

eehhh, I dont get it? :?

you have more than 6 tipes of translator there,i used one of them,i think you used another,and i translate to spanish latin america :( .

No I dont use a translater, I just plainly dont get it...But you know, in different places of the world, theres different cultures/customs, and they produce jokes, for themselves, not for foriegners to understand. So there must be something British that I dont get... Any help?

[BDL]

eehhh, I dont get it? :?

you have more than 6 tipes of translator there,i used one of them,i think you used another,and i translate to spanish latin america :( .

No I dont use a translater, I just plainly dont get it...But you know, in different places of the world, theres different cultures/customs, and they produce jokes, for themselves, not for foriegners to understand. So there must be something British that I dont get... Any help?

All he could see was a white square, so he asked if it was a picture of an Argentinian soldier hiding behind a (white) polar bear in a (white) snow storm on a (white) glacier

[South African Military]

eehhh, I dont get it? :?

you have more than 6 tipes of translator there,i used one of them,i think you used another,and i translate to spanish latin america :( .

No I dont use a translater, I just plainly dont get it...But you know, in different places of the world, theres different cultures/customs, and they produce jokes, for themselves, not for foriegners to understand. So there must be something British that I dont get... Any help?

All he could see was a white square, so he asked if it was a picture of an Argentinian soldier hiding behind a (white) polar bear in a (white) snow storm on a (white) glacier

:D :D k, i think i got it :D thnx

[Sturmtruppen]

danke :D

[Sturmtruppen]

i previous posted about the argentinian army during 1938,they had the helmet m-18
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/arg3516f.jpg

photo:argentinian cavalry.

we had other uniforms,and now,im going to talk about the other old helmet.

the paratroopers helmet M-I (from argentina):
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/argpar44.jpg
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/argpaf4.jpg

and the m1 for army:

http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/ea44m1.jpg
argentinian veteran from falklands with that helmet:
http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/argm1sel.jpg
and in 1970:

http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/argfaa.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

The argentinian army is considered a normal army,of a country of south america.
But you will find a PROFFESSIONAL ARMY,difference with the conscription in the 82 and other years,with experience,in peace missions (like haiti) and you will find the best pilots in the World!.But,it´s very small,it hasn´t a good number of money,and,the people is against the army nowadays,(WHEN YOU SEE DOCUMENTS ABOUT THE DISSAPEAREDS,YOU THINK THE MILITARY WAS ONLY KILLING CIVILIANS,BUT THE PEOPLE WANTED THEM TO CONTROL THE SECURITY,BECAUSE,OUTSIDE,THE THINGS WEREN´T GOOD,AND THE GUERRILLEROS WERE FUCKING TERRORISTS,WHO KILLED CIVILIANS WITH BOMBS,COWARDS!)note that we always tried to research weapons,misiles and other stuff about military,but USA blocked us in various chases,Im going to give an example now:






THE CONDOR

The “Dirección General de Desarrollos Espaciales” was the organization depending of “Fuerza Aérea Argentina” in charge of developing the CONDOR PROJECT.



Technical Data of The Condor I:

Aproximate length: 8 m.
Fuselage maximum diameter: 0,80 m.
Phases: One
Fuel: solid, made up of HTPB compounds (Hydoxil Terminated Poly Butadiene, the same one used in the boosters of the Thiokol of the Space Shuttle).- This fuel was manufactured at the Falda del Carmen plant.
Fixed canon, made of compound materials (probably molybdenum epoxy-trioxide resine).
Ogive made of epoxy resine.-
Gear system: inercial-aerodinamic, by means of flaps or dependant on the launching angle flight. It did not have any intelligent gear system.

The Condor I was meant for developing a rocket engine and to probably use this rocket for future atmospheric research, with a peak of 300 Km and a pay load of about 400-500 Kg.

The first static tests of the engine were carried out apparently in the mid 1983’s and it was planned to launch the first Condor I towards the late 1985, this never took place.





Details of The Alacran (Condor I-A III):


http://www.machtres.com/condor2.gif



The second phase of this project consisted of the development of the Condor II, but in order to be able to test the technology in flight they developed the Alacran (its code number was: Condor IA-III). It had a length of 6,50 m. And a diameter of 0,56 m. This vector could carry a load of 250 kg., and would reach 115 Km.- The ogive of Alacran made of compound materials could carry a war head made up of a cluster bomb, which had 1000 grenades CAM-1, with a dispersal spoke of 2 blocks of houses.

This missile used the same fuel and had the same building characteristics as the Condor I, but actually it was an artillery tactic missile, of the chilenean RAYO, though more powerful and with greater reach. The Alacran was shot several times since 1988, including once by the former President Carlos Menem in The Chamical, La Rioja; it was even tested as a head of war with an ogive carrying submunitios.

In an article issued in the Air and Space magazine “Aeroespacio”, jan-feb 1990, that dealt about Fuerza Aérea and about the weapon systems that were being tested at the time, it mentions the Alacran’s compound-material ogive and of the head of war made up of a cluster bomb inserted in the ogive which carried 1000 grenades type CAM-1 . In the text it explains that the earth to earth rocket VT-561 (ex ALACRAN) was being introduced under the project name FAS-320.

It specifies that the full weight is 1532 Kg, with a 400 Kg load capacity and that at the end of combustion weighs 788 Kg (that means that it carried 744 Kg of propellant) and that it has a horizontal reach 120 with a peak of 40 Km.


Technical Data of Condor II:


CONDOR II, was a two phase vehicle, with a thrust vector control system that worked through levelling canon in each phase, aerodynamic areas to control the rolling in each phase, as web. A cold gas sensor package to control the altitude and a final speed control system. This is all controlled through connected-integrated computers.


http://www.machtres.com/condor2.jpg




The complete height of the rocket would be of 16 m. with a diameter of 0.80 m. The pay load would be of 500 Kg and a 1000 Km reach was predicted.

Although this was the military version of Condor II, it also was planned to make a modified version to orbit stall satellites adding another rocket in the third phase.

Apparently other examples of Condor II were completed, but were never tested in flight.

One reason for cancelling this project was a budget one, and it came to an end due to international pressure.

An important part (not all) of the equipment for developing the rocket was disassembled and sent to USA to be destroyed in 1993, in accordance to the agreements signed between both governments at that time.

Since then up to now adays there haven’t been any other official projects related to the development of rockets in Argentina. So all the technological achievements for peaceful projects has been wasted.



http://www.machtres.com/condorx.htm

[Sturmtruppen]

note that there is more info but its a secret of the government.

[Sturmtruppen]

This photo is the tam,i already put it,but i like it,so,i put it again :lol: :
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/TAM%20%20JMB_jpg.jpg

AIR FORCE PICS
One of the three operative dagger with the opened cockpit:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/G6C/images/A29.jpg
a guarani 2 on the andes:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/FAA/images/Guarani%20II%20sobre%20los%20Andes_jpg.jpg
BAE Camberra
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/FAA/images/Canberra_jpg.jpg
C130
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/FAA/images/C-130_jpg.jpg.

[Sturmtruppen]

(Glorioso regimiento de granaderos a caballo) Glorius regiment of cavalry grenadiers (they aren´t always riding horse,note that).They are the presidential guard too.
letter of the cavalry grenadiers http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/argentin/argenb/argreco2.jpg

http://www.argentour.com/images/granaderos.jpg
http://www.tradiciongaucha.com.ar/Argentina/granaderos2.JPG
http://www.soygaucho.com/espanol/noticias/2003/agosto/granaderos/interior1.jpg
http://gardiens.traditions.free.fr/Monde/Argentine/granadero-02.JPG

[Sturmtruppen]

San Martín (Don Jose de San Martín):

Thanks to this man,southern south america isn´t now a spanish colony.
He left all he had,a secure life,and a long time to spend with his family for our freedom.

http://www.adonde.com/historia/images/1821san_martin_ar.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

The following is a list of Argentine Army regiments and other elements, organized by corps and brigades to which they are attached. This list contains only combat units, and excludes combat support and combat service support.

Second Army Corps (HQ Rosario, Santa Fe Province)

2nd Armored Brigade (HQ Paraná, Entre Ríos Province)
1st "Coronel Brandsen" Tank Cavalry Regiment (Villaguay, Entre Ríos Province)
6th "Blandengues" Tank Cavalry Regiment-Training (Gualeguaychú, Entre Ríos Province)
7th "Coraceros Coronel Ramón Estomba" Tank Cavalry Regiment (Chajarí, Entre Ríos Province)
12th "Duque de Caxias" Tank Cavalry Regiment (Gualeguaychú, Entre Ríos Province)
5th Mechanized Infantry Regiment (Villaguay, Entre Ríos Province)
2nd Armored Artillery Group (Rosario del Tala, Entre Ríos Province)
12th Jungle Brigade (HQ Posadas, Misiones Province)
30th Jungle Regiment (Apóstoles, Misiones Province)
9th Jungle Infantry Regiment (Puerto Iguazú, Misiones Province)
9th Jungle Troopers Company (Bernardo de Irigoyen, Misiones Province)
12th Jungle Troopers Company (Training) (San Javier, Misiones Province)
29th "Coronel Ignacio José Javier Warnes" Jungle Infantry Regiment (Formosa, Formosa Province)
Third Army Corps (HQ Córdoba, Córdoba Province)

4th Paratroopers Brigade (HQ Córdoba, Córdoba Province)
2nd "General Balcarce" Paratroopers Regiment (Córdoba, Córdoba Province)
14th Paratroopers Regiment (Córdoba, Córdoba Province)
4th Paratrooper Cavalry Exploration Squadron (Córdoba, Córdoba Province)
4th Paratrooper Artillery Group (Córdoba, Córdoba Province)
5th Mechanized Infantry Brigade (HQ Salta, Salta Province
15th "General Francisco Ortiz de Ocampo" Mechanized Infantry Regiment (La Rioja, La Rioja Province
20th "Cazadores de Los Andes" Mechanized Infantry Regiment (San Salvador de Jujuy, Jujuy Province)
28th "Teniente Coronel Juana Azurduy" Jungle Infantry Regiment (Tartagal, Salta Province)
5th "General Güemes" Light Cavalry Regiment (Salta, Salta Province)
5th "Capitán Felipe Antonio Pereyra de Lucena" Artillery Group (San Salvador de Jujuy, Jujuy Province)
15th "Coronel Francisco Bolognesi" Artillery Group (Salta, Salta Province)
8th Mountain Brigade (HQ Mendoza, Mendoza Province)
11th "General Las Heras" Mountain Infantry Regiment (Tupungato, Mendoza Province)
16th "Cazadores de Los Andes" Mountain Infantry Regiment (Uspallata, Mendoza Province)
22nd "Teniente Coronel Juan Manuel Cabot" Mountain Infantry Regiment (El Marquesado, San Juan Province)
8th "Teniente 1ro Ibañez" High Mountain Troopers Company (Puente del Inca, Mendoza Province)
15th "Libertador Simón Bolívar" Light Cavalry Regiment (Campo de los Andes, Mendoza Province)
8th "Coronel Regalado de la Plaza" Mountain Artillery Group (Uspallata, Mendoza Province)
7th Artillery Group (San Luis, San Luis Province)
Fifth Army Corps (HQ Bahía Blanca, Buenos Aires Province)

1st Armored Brigade (HQ Tandil, Buenos Aires Province)
2nd "Lanceros General Paz" Tank Cavalry Regiment (Olavarría, Buenos Aires Province)
8th "Cazadores General Necochea" Tank Cavalry Regiment (Magdalena, Buenos Aires Province)
10th "Húsares de Pueyrredón" Tank Cavalry Regiment (Azul, Buenos Aires Province)
7th "Coronel Conde" Mechanized Infantry Regiment (Arana, Buenos Aires Province)
1st Armored Cavalry Scout Squadron (Arana, Buenos Aires Province)
1st "Coronel Chilavert" Armored Artillery Group (Azul, Buenos Aires Province)
6th Mountain Brigade (HQ Neuquén, Neuquén Province
10th "Teniente General Racedo" Mountain Infantry Regiment (Zapala, Neuquén Province)
21st "Teniente General Rufino Ortega" Mountain Infantry Regiment (Las Lajas, Neuquen)
26th "Coronel Benjamín Moritán" Mountain Infantry Regiment (Junín de los Andes, Neuquén Province)
6th Mountain Troopers Company (Primeros Pinos, Neuquén Province)
4th "Coraceros General Lavalle" Mountain Cavalry Regiment (San Martín de los Andes, Neuquén Province)
6th Mountain Artillery Group (Junín de los Andes, Neuquén Province)
16th Artillery Group (Zapala, Neuquén Province)
9th Mechanized Infantry Brigade (HQ Comodoro Rivadavia, Chubut Province
8th "General O'Higgins" Mechanized Infantry Regiment (Comodoro Rivadavia, Chubut Province)
25th Mechanized Infantry Regiment (Colonia Sarmiento, Chubut Province)
9th "General José Gervasio Artigas Tank Cavalry Regiment (Puerto Deseado, Santa Cruz Province)
3rd "Coraceros General Pacheco" Light Cavalry Regiment (Esquel, Chubut Province)
9th Armored Artillery Group (Colonia Sarmiento, Chubut Province)
10th Mechanized Infantry Brigade (HQ Santa Rosa, La Pampa Province)
3rd "General Belgrano" Mechanized Infantry Regiment (Pigue, La Pampa Province)
6th "General Viamonte" Mechanized Infantry Regiment (Toay, La Pampa Province)
12th "General Arenales" Mechanized Infantry Regiment (Toay, La Pampa Province)
13th "Teniente General Juan Esteban Pedernera" Light Cavalry Regiment (General Pico, La Pampa Province)
10th "Teniente General Bartolomé Mitre" Artillery Group (Junín, Buenos Aires Province)
11th Mechanized Infantry Brigade (HQ Río Gallegos, Santa Cruz Province)
24th Mechanized Infantry Regiment (Río Gallegos, Santa Cruz Province)
35th Mechanized Infantry Regiment (Rospentek, Santa Cruz Province)
11th Tank Cavalry Regiment (Puerto Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz Province)
11th "Coronel Juan Pascual Pringles" Armored Cavalry Scout Squadron (Rospentek, Santa Cruz Province)
11th Artillery Group (Comandante Luis Py, Santa Cruz Province)
601st Anti-Aircraft Artillery Force (HQ Camet-Mar del Plata, Buenos Aires Province)
601st "Teniente General Pablo Riccheri" Anti-Aircraft Group (Camet-Mar del Plata, Buenos Aires Province)
602nd Mixed Anti-Aircraft Group (Camet-Mar del Plata, Buenos Aires Province)
Buenos Aires Garrison (HQ City of Buenos Aires)

1st "Patricios" Infantry Regiment (City of Buenos Aires)
"General San Martín" Mounted Grenadiers Regiment (City of Buenos Aires)
1st "Brigadier General Iriarte" Artillery Group (Campo de Mayo, Buenos Aires Province)
Army Aviation Command (Campo de Mayo, Buenos Aires Province)

601st Army Aviation Force (Campo de Mayo, Buenos Aires Province)
601st Assault Helicopter Battalion (Campo de Mayo, Buenos Aires Province)
602nd Attack/Scout Aviation Squadron (Campo de Mayo, Buenos Aires Province)
601st Intelligence Support Aviation Squadron (Campo de Mayo, Buenos Aires Province)
603rd General Support Aviation Squadron (Campo de Mayo, Buenos Aires Province)
604th Support Aviation Squadron (Campo de Mayo, Buenos Aires Province)
Rapid Deployment Force (FDR) (HQ City of Buenos Aires)

601st Air Assault Regiment (Campo de Mayo, Buenos Aires Province)
601st Commando Company (Campo de Mayo, Buenos Aires Province)
602nd Commando Company (Córdoba, Córdoba Province)
(Units from the 4th Paratroopers Brigade may fall under FDR command)
Training Units

4th Mechanized Infantry Regiment (Training) (Monte Caseros, Corrientes Province



with the art of wikipedia!!! (i give the font,then you don´t shout :P) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Argentine_Army_Regiments

[Bluffcove]

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/images/Equipos%20con%20M-72_jpg.jpg
Are South American AT devices different to the rest of the world, or do the guys at the back jsut really wnat to scorch their chestnuts?

[Sturmtruppen]

ARGENTINE TANKS THE YEARS OF WW2

Vickers M1934:

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Vickers-Mod34-Argentina.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-VickersMkVI.JPG
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Vickers1934.JPG
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Vick&Nahuel.JPG
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-VickersModel1934-1.JPG

Medium Tank Nahuel D.L. 43:

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/nahuel.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/nahuel-1.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel-2.JPG
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel-DL43.JPG
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel-3.JPG
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nathuel-Life.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel6.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel-1.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel-a.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel-4.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel-5.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel-July9-1945Parade.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel1944expo-1.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel1944Expo.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/argentina/Arg-Nahuel-Andre.jpg

[Dani]

Thread reopened.

Found this:
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/BAA/fotos%20regimiento%20asalto%20aereo%20601.htm
and http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/fotos%20ejercito%20argentino.htm
Hope that you'll enjoy the pics!

Anyway, this site http://www.saorbats.com.ar/saorbats_frameset.htm have a lot of pics about South American armies (including Chile, Erwin!)

[Eagle]

As Dani showed, the page SAORBATS is one of the best argentine military pages. You can find a lot of oficial information there.

Pics from Saorbats:

ARGENTINE ARMY

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/fotos/uh-1Hvuelo.jpg
Bell UH-1 Huey. This model is being modernized to the standard Huey II

http://saorbats.com.ar/fotos/SINPRODE2002-09-29_069.JPG
Armoured vehicle from the Argentine Army Infantry.

http://saorbats.com.ar/fotos/SINPRODE2002-09-29_048.JPG
Argentine-made tank. The TAM is the first tank made in Latin America.

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EA/images/Roland_jpg.jpg
SAM system Roland, propulsed by a Mercedes Benz truck.

http://www.ejercito.mil.ar/antartico/base_esperan/Fotos_Varios/images/superpuma_jpg.jpg
Super Puma used by the Antarctic missions, specially at the Marambio Base.



Thes ear only from the Army, I'll send more from the Navy and the Air Force.

[Sturmtruppen]

AUTORITIES:

The Head of the General Staff of the Argentine Army

General Roberto Bendini
http://www.ejercito.mil.ar/_noticia/Imagenes/Bendini1.jpg

HEAD OF THE COMBINED HEADQUARTERS

Brigadier General D Jorge Alberto Chevalier
http://www.fuerzas-armadas.mil.ar/imagenes/JefeEmco.jpg

Admiral Jorge Omar Godoy Head of the General staff of the Navy


Brigadier Major Eduardo Augusto Schiaffino

[Sturmtruppen]

The argentine made TAM Tank:

http://armyreco.ifrance.com/amerique_du_sud/argentine/vehicules_lourds/tam/tam_argentine_03.jpg
http://www.enemyforces.com/tanks/tam.jpg
http://armyreco.ifrance.com/amerique_du_sud/argentine/vehicules_lourds/tam/tam_argentine_19.jpg
http://armyreco.ifrance.com/amerique_du_sud/argentine/vehicules_lourds/tam/tam_argentine_01.jpg
http://armyreco.ifrance.com/amerique_du_sud/argentine/vehicules_lourds/tam/tam_decoupe.gif
http://worldweapon.ru/images/tank/tam/tam_02.jpg
http://worldweapon.ru/images/tank/tam/tam_03.jpg
http://www.deyseg.com.ar/fotos/fotos/ejercito12(1).jpg
http://www.deyseg.com.ar/fotos/fotos/ejercito21(1).jpg
http://www.deyseg.com.ar/fotos/fotos/ejercito17(1).jpg
http://www.deyseg.com.ar/fotos/fotos/ejercito32(1).jpg
http://www.deyseg.com.ar/fotos/fotos/ejercito28(1).jpg
http://www.deyseg.com.ar/fotos/fotos/ejercito31(1).jpg
http://www.deyseg.com.ar/fotos/fotos/ejercito33(1).jpg
http://www.deyseg.com.ar/fotos/fotos/ejercito34(1).jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

Buzo tacticos or tactical divers are elitè units who have a great trainment, and they had a great involvement in the falklands/malvinas conflict.
here pics:


http://www.deyseg.com.ar/fotos/fotos/malvinas2(1).jpg
http://www.deyseg.com.ar/fotos/fotos/malvinas10(1).jpg

sorry for the photos (they are from that war)
i put them because they are the only that i could found,apologies,this is not to flame war.

[Sturmtruppen]

Member of the Company 602 of Commandos with the uniform for Urban Combat and M-4 carbine
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/CORDOBA05/images/foto2_jpg.jpg


Member of the Company of Commandos 602 with desert or patagónico uniform of summer and FAL PARA
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/CORDOBA05/images/foto7_jpg.jpg
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/CORDOBA05/images/foto8_jpg.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/ARA/images/Tanque%20JMB_jpg.jpg
VCR-TT with heavy machinegun

[Sturmtruppen]

The Regiment of Patricios in a representation of the English Invasions of 1806 (and 1807)
here is the photo:
http://www.ejercito.mil.ar/_Noticia/Imagenes/diaEA_02.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

here are more patricios:
http://www.ejercito.mil.ar/_noticia/Imagenes/patricios.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

photos of Malvinas/Falklands war 1982:
Infantry regiment 25

Section Boat of the Mechanized regiment 25
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotosri25/ri2500040002.jpg

Formacion of a section of Compania C of the Regiment of Infanteria 25 which combatio San Carlos, Darwin and prairie of the Ganso
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotosri25/ri25002.jpg

Monsignor Bonamin visits Regiment 25
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotosri25/Ri25015.jpg

More of the Infantry regiment 25
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotosri25/ri25008.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

More of 1982:
Buzos Tacticos (Anphibious Commandos):

http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralanexos4/Fotos/fotos25/anfibios.jpg
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralanexos4/Fotos/fotos25/Hospital2.jpg
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralanexos4/Fotos/fotos25/anfibios2.jpg
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralanexos4/Fotos/fotos25/santafe.jpg
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralanexos4/Fotos/fotos25/anfibios3.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

Malvinas - Argentinian Positions - 1982

http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos8/012-deguardia.jpg
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos8/M134.jpg
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos8/SanCarlos2.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

Argentine Soldiers in Falklands - Malvinas:

http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos4/foto02.jpg
Note that they were all very young:
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos4/030-porlascalles.jpg.
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos4/arm1f23.jpeg
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos4/Soldado3001.jpg
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos4/127mm.jpg

Rear admiral IM D. Carlos Busser
GeneralOsaldo Garcia Rear
admiral Walter O. Allara:
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos4/Oficiales.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

2 of April of 1982 the disembarkation

Vehiculos Amphibious of the Infanteria de Marina (AOV) in beaches of the Malvinashttp://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos1/Desembarco1.jpg

Troops with their Flag
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos1/2a.jpg

Galtieri communicating the invasion to the malvinas:
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos1/galtieri2.jpg

Argentine troops looking for weapons in the british prisoners:
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos1/Cacheo.jpg

Argentine Periodist looking at british prisoners,Argentine soldiers in the background:
http://ar.geocities.com/laperlaaustralfotos/images/fotos/fotos1/pric001.jpg

[King_Nothing]

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/4893/f8ea.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

oh,yahoo geocities :oops: ,thanks for the advice crab,and thanks for the photo king nothing

[Sturmtruppen]

http://www.ejercito.mil.ar/wallpapers/wallpapers/640x480_08.jpg

[1000ydstare]

The picy in Erwins post. What/who is he? If he is a sniper he will make a lot of noise (reletevly) because he has a sling fitted. Also he will give lots of reflection from his sight.

He seems to have a cover on hs helmet, possibly for goggles. And is useing a SLR derivifitve weapon.

Also the flag is a bit bright.

[Eagle]

Is only a demostation picture, 1000ydstare.

Of course this is not his equipment, but you if you want to make some propaganda, you'll need to keep the flag and the designation EJERCITO ARGENTINO. Of course the sling makes stronger to the weapon saw by a "normal" eye.

[1000ydstare]

What a lot of posts!!!!

I think Eagle was trying to say that the sling would help support the weapon whilst aiming Cuts.

Although I'm not sure this particular sling could be used in taht way.

Is the weapon a heavy barreled FN FAL? The Isralies use a heavy barreled Galil, which is the basically same weapon that their soldiers use, for sharpshooters.

[Sturmtruppen]

What a lot of posts!!!!

I think Eagle was trying to say that the sling would help support the weapon whilst aiming Cuts.

Although I'm not sure this particular sling could be used in taht way.

Is the weapon a heavy barreled FN FAL? The Isralies use a heavy barreled Galil, which is the basically same weapon that their soldiers use, for sharpshooters.
FN FAL is the standart rifle for the argentina army,but there are every day more steyr augs,m16s and other weapons bought for our army so maybe it is replaced later.

[Fuchs66]

Although I'm not sure this particular sling could be used in taht way.


Oh yes it can there are several ways a simple sling can be used to help support a rifle the easiest way being to wrap the sling around the left forearm. Speaking from my days in the ACF .303 Lee Enfield and regular army SLR both having similair simple strap type slings.

[1000ydstare]

Yes it could be used like that, but the sling is not in any way dampend. Which could cause the snipers biggest worry - sound. Specific slings are usually used ie double loop for this sort of work.

Maybe this guy is just a sharpshooter rather than a sniper. True snipers generally don't use automatic weapons.

This would explain the heavy barrel of an otherwise standard infantry weapon. Little extra training would need to be given to the plt/coy gifted shooter and if he were in someway incapacitated any person could use the weapon.

[Fuchs66]

1000ys I'll go along with that, more probably sharpshooter, in my opinion a useful comprimise between rifleman and sniper and a valuable section asset.

[Cuts]

What a lot of posts!!!!

I think Eagle was trying to say that the sling would help support the weapon whilst aiming Cuts.

Although I'm not sure this particular sling could be used in taht way.

Is the weapon a heavy barreled FN FAL? The Isralies use a heavy barreled Galil, which is the basically same weapon that their soldiers use, for sharpshooters.

Cheers for that 1000, I had assumed that was what he meant, but we all know what happens when one assumes, eh ?

It is a carry sling rather than a shooting aid, and although most of this type can be hastily adapted as a support, they are nowhere near as effective as a properly mounted shooting sling. The SA80 is an example of those which cannot.

Bbl mounted slings, (or bipods,) have an inclination to move the POI due to flexing the bbl, however that on the FAL and SLR are fairly sturdy and it doesn't have too much effect on man sized tgts at normal battle ranges.
When shooting at longer ranges or on smaller tgts I personally would be inclined to use a different means of sp.

The wpn in the pic is the std Argentine FAL, they also fielded the FAL PARA and the heavy bbl version, (which looks quite different,) known locally as the FAP.
The Aussies and Canucks also used the light support version - the L2A1 and C2 respectively.
The handguards on the pictured FAL are relieved for a bipod, (as used on the Austrian StG58,) but as far as I know it was never issued with one.

[Topor]

I found that using the sling on the SLR polled the POI off by about 2" at 100yds - not conducive to accurate shooting!

[Cuts]

I found that using the sling on the SLR polled the POI off by about 2" at 100yds - not conducive to accurate shooting!

Aye - enough to take the rds off a Fig 11 at 200 yds at least.
Although some rifles will be more affected than others, sifting through wpns until the 'right' one is found is not a luxury afforded to Toms.

PR shooters found better ways of mounting a sling so it could be used as a shooting aid, but the sport was emasculated in the UK in '88 so many of the useful items are hard to find these days.
Webbing loops around the aft end of the handguards can work well.

[Sturmtruppen]

The wpn in the pic is the std Argentine FAL, they also fielded the FAL PARA and the heavy bbl version, (which looks quite different,) known locally as the FAP.
right!,i did not know that the foreigners know what are our weapons and how we call them,the FAL PARA is another model,the FAP is the heavy version,and it finishes with P for pesado (heavy) the meaning (at least known here is) FAL here for "fusil automatico liviano" (light automatic rifle) and FAP for "fusil automatico pesado" (heavy automatic rifle) both them are from the same basis,the FAL,we have a few modifications of weapons such as an argentine colt 1911,the FAL is by far the most used rifle in the entire argentina.Excuse my english but i cannot understand your discussion because i do not know what is a sharpshooter,isn't sniper the same word? (direct translation for sniper is rifle de francotirador that is sniper rifle) and sharpshooter hasn't a translation for my translator.

greetings.

[Topor]

I found that using the sling on the SLR polled the POI off by about 2" at 100yds - not conducive to accurate shooting!

Aye - enough to take the rds off a Fig 11 at 200 yds at least.
Although some rifles will be more affected than others, sifting through wpns until the 'right' one is found is not a luxury afforded to Toms.

PR shooters found better ways of mounting a sling so it could be used as a shooting aid, but the sport was emasculated in the UK in '88 so many of the useful items are hard to find these days.
Webbing loops around the aft end of the handguards can work well.

There are some very nice full-float handguards available too, which make one Hell of a difference :wink:

[Cuts]

The wpn in the pic is the std Argentine FAL, they also fielded the FAL PARA and the heavy bbl version, (which looks quite different,) known locally as the FAP.
right!,i did not know that the foreigners know what are our weapons and how we call them,the FAL PARA is another model,the FAP is the heavy version,and it finishes with P for pesado (heavy) the meaning (at least known here is) FAL here for "fusil automatico liviano" (light automatic rifle) and FAP for "fusil automatico pesado" (heavy automatic rifle) both them are from the same basis,the FAL,we have a few modifications of weapons such as an argentine colt 1911,the FAL is by far the most used rifle in the entire argentina.Excuse my english but i cannot understand your discussion because i do not know what is a sharpshooter,isn't sniper the same word? (direct translation for sniper is rifle de francotirador that is sniper rifle) and sharpshooter hasn't a translation for my translator.

greetings.

I posted some gen on the Ballister Molina some months back, can't remember which thread it was in nor can I find it in the search engine, perhaps it has been deleted.


In the British Army a sharpshooter is an infantryman that has undergone training to enable him to select and engage targets at greater ranges than other soldiers.

A sniper is a soldier that has honed the basic infantry skills to the n-th degree.
He will have passed one of the most difficult courses in the army.
When Brit snipers are in-role they generally use one of the AI wpns, otherwise they're stuck with the sack of kak everyone else has.


In some countries sharpshooters will use a scoped issue rifle, (eg Argentina,) some permanently arm them with a specialist wpn, (Russia,) and in others they will use the issue rifle until the tactical situation dictates they be used as sharpshooters. (UK)

[Cuts]

There are some very nice full-float handguards available too, which make one Hell of a difference :wink:

You wouldn't happen to have a spare one kicking about, would you ?
(Said Dougal hopefully...)

[Sturmtruppen]

ah!!!,the tiradores de primero (shooters of 1st),those are the sharpshooters,i know well what is a sniper.thankyou,i think it is still there your post of the ballester molina.

[Topor]

The wpn in the pic is the std Argentine FAL, they also fielded the FAL PARA and the heavy bbl version, (which looks quite different,) known locally as the FAP.
right!,i did not know that the foreigners know what are our weapons and how we call them,the FAL PARA is another model,the FAP is the heavy version,and it finishes with P for pesado (heavy) the meaning (at least known here is) FAL here for "fusil automatico liviano" (light automatic rifle) and FAP for "fusil automatico pesado" (heavy automatic rifle) both them are from the same basis,the FAL,we have a few modifications of weapons such as an argentine colt 1911,the FAL is by far the most used rifle in the entire argentina.Excuse my english but i cannot understand your discussion because i do not know what is a sharpshooter,isn't sniper the same word? (direct translation for sniper is rifle de francotirador that is sniper rifle) and sharpshooter hasn't a translation for my translator.

greetings.

The UK never went for the FN in HB - the 7.62x51 version of the BREN filled the role admirably & more accurately.
The Aussies, Canadians & Israelis went with the FN HB, which IMO was an error - too heavy for an IW & too light for an LMG.


Note: Edited by Dani. Please use the [/quote] tag properly!

[Sturmtruppen]

huh?,enough fun topo :?

[Dani]

huh?,enough fun topo :?

Topor just placed the [/quote] tag in a wrong place. That's all. Check his post now.

[Sturmtruppen]

huh?,enough fun topo :?

Topor just placed the "/quote" tag in a wrong place. That's all. Check his post now.
thanks

filled the role admirably & more accurately.

wrong,us were failing,but if they were well cared fn fals,they would have done a good work,greetings

[1000ydstare]

Why would foreigners not know about your countrys weapons Erwin?

Are your designations in Spanish?

I think in Belgium, where the design comes from, FN FAL is Fabric Nationale Fusil Automatic Ledger

Edit to add, spelling might be a bit off.

The word Sniper comes from the Snipe, a bird that was extremely difficult to shoot. Only the best shots coud bag one. Hence the sport of Sniping.

The art of Sniping was originally derided as "not proper" within the British Army at first especially during the late 1800's.

The idea that a common soldier (ie a Rifleman in the 95th Rifles) could shoot and kill an officer at great distance was seen as distastefull and rude. The officer should meet his equal on the field and fight them.

Then again submarines didn't take of with the Royal Navy at first either.

Bloody Col blimps.

[Sturmtruppen]

Why would foreigners not know about your countrys weapons Erwin?

Are your designations in Spanish?

I think in Belgium, where the design comes from, FN FAL is Fabric Nationale Fusil Automatic Ledger.

yes mate,but you told that you do not have this weapon in the royal army,right?

[Bladensburg]

There is no "Royal Army" Erwin.
However the British Army used the FAL (in semi-auto only form) as the L1A1 SLR (self loading rifle) from the late fifties until the late eighties.

[Sturmtruppen]

There is no "Royal Army" Erwin.
However the British Army used the FAL (in semi-auto only form) as the L1A1 SLR (self loading rifle) from the late fifties until the late eighties.
oh,i thought they also were royal! :oops: .
topor said: .....The UK never went for the FN......

[BDL]

The British Army never used the light machine gun version of the FN FAL Erwin, we did use the rifle version though.

[Sturmtruppen]

The British Army never used the light machine gun version of the FN FAL Erwin, we did use the rifle version though.
ok,then topor was wrong.
thanks.

[Bladensburg]

The British Army never used the light machine gun version of the FN FAL Erwin, we did use the rifle version though.
ok,then topor was wrong.
thanks.

Not Quite, he said:
The UK never went for the FN in HB. The "HB" probably means "Heavy Barrel" which is another name for the Light Machine Gun variant. At the time Britain was using a combination of WWII Brens adapted for 7.62NATO (the LMG) and belt-fed GPMGs (the FN MAG).



Edited to add a ) .

[Sturmtruppen]

The British Army never used the light machine gun version of the FN FAL Erwin, we did use the rifle version though.
ok,then topor was wrong.
thanks.

Not Quite, he said:
The UK never went for the FN in HB. The "HB" probably means "Heavy Barrel" which is another name for the Light Machine Gun variant. At the time Britain was using a combination of WWII Brens adapted for 7.62NATO (the LMG) and belt-fed GPMGs (the FN MAG).



Edited to add a ) .

we also used 7.62,and also,the standart isn't a light machinegun,and ours had a great involvement for internal conflicts (the army vs the army,army vs terrorists,terrorists who stolen army weapons vs army,you know).
and im sure it would have a great involvement in the fal*lands w*r if it was well cared,we should take more care of our weapons,thanks for the definition,i didn't know that hb was heavy barrel.

[Topor]

Sorry for the confusion; "HB" did indeed refer to the heavy barrel variant of the FN-FAL :oops:
The modified BREN stayed in service right through to the first Gulf War & may still be in service with some units (I'm a bit out of touch these days).

The BREN is a far more stable platform for automatic fire than the Heavy Barrel FN, which is too light to be controllable even on the bipod - "spray & pray" comes to mind :wink:

[Sturmtruppen]

Sorry for the confusion; "HB" did indeed refer to the heavy barrel variant of the FN-FAL :oops:
The modified BREN stayed in service right through to the first Gulf War & may still be in service with some units (I'm a bit out of touch these days).

The BREN is a far more stable platform for automatic fire than the Heavy Barrel FN, which is too light to be controllable even on the bipod - "spray & pray" comes to mind :wink:

No problem,im also sorry for the bad understanding from my part.

Bren is a good weapon,but isn't it a little older than the FN FAL?

[BDL]

No problem,im also sorry for the bad understanding from my part.

Bren is a good weapon,but isn't it a little older than the FN FAL?

It is, but as Torpor says it is a far better MG because the FN FAL is too light to control properly during automatic fire.

Age doesn't matter for weapons like that anyway, the Danes in Iraq were driving round with modified MG42s mounted on their little Mercedes jeeps and I think the German Army still uses it as well - the MG3.

[Sturmtruppen]

No problem,im also sorry for the bad understanding from my part.

Bren is a good weapon,but isn't it a little older than the FN FAL?

It is, but as Torpor says it is a far better MG because the FN FAL is too light to control properly during automatic fire.

Age doesn't matter for weapons like that anyway, the Danes in Iraq were driving round with modified MG42s mounted on their little Mercedes jeeps and I think the German Army still uses it as well - the MG3.

yes it is,we use the MAG (7.62) for MG,instead of the FAL,but im afraid FAL also has that option,however,i think it has the job of multipurpose,as the standart weapon of our army.

MG42 :shock: ,the war changed since ww2!,still in use?.

[Dani]

MG42 :shock: ,the war changed since ww2!,still in use?.

A little bit off-topic as a reply for Erwin.

Quoted from: http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg08-e.htm

MG3 is one of the most popular universal MGs in the World. In fact, MG3 is modified version of the MG42, German WW2 era machinegun, adopted to fire 7.62mm NATO rounds instead of the 7.92mm Mauser rounds. MG42 was worlds first truly "universal" machinegun, designed for use as both light MG on bipods or as heavy MG on tripod or AA or pintle mount. MG3 started as MG42/59 in 1959, and since 1968 MG3 itself is in mass production.
MG3 is exported to Chile, Denmark, Italy, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Norway, Austria, Portuguese and Turkey. MG3 clones are built in Yugoslavia and other countries.


As for Danish soldiers in Iraq:

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/2609/aal8am.jpg

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/9506/aai4mp.jpg

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/3038/danishmedina15dd.jpg

[Bladensburg]

MG42 still in use? Yes. Different calibres but effectively the same weapon, I believe some newer versions have a slower rate of fire to save ammo for the infantry role.
Th thing about the 7.62 LMG was that they were Brens manufactured during and immediately after WWII and just adapted to fire 7.62!

[Sturmtruppen]

MG3 is one of the most popular universal MGs in the World. In fact, MG3 is modified version of the MG42, German WW2 era machinegun, adopted to fire 7.62mm NATO rounds instead of the 7.92mm Mauser rounds. MG42 was worlds first truly "universal" machinegun, designed for use as both light MG on bipods or as heavy MG on tripod or AA or pintle mount. MG3 started as MG42/59 in 1959, and since 1968 MG3 itself is in mass production......

thankyou!,very informative post!,but at least they modified the ww2 era mg,the 7.62 nato is by far better than the 7.92,that's why it is more used in the modern days.
It is a good weapon,but i prefer new fashioned weapons :) .

[Dani]

...but i prefer new fashioned weapons :) .

You mean with a new layout? :D

[Sturmtruppen]

...but i prefer new fashioned weapons :) .

You mean with a new layout? :D
right,i was thinking about old fashioned :oops: ,thanks :D

[Man of Stoat]

thankyou!,very informative post!,but at least they modified the ww2 era mg,the 7.62 nato is by far better than the 7.92,that's why it is more used in the modern days.
It is a good weapon,but i prefer new fashioned weapons :) .

Two words: NATO standardisation. 7.62x39 is even more used than either and it's fairly crap ballistically.

In any case, Erwin, the FAL is from the 1950s, so is hardly "new-fashioned."

[FluffyBunnyGB]

It could be argued that when you have an excellent design, such as the BREN, 9mm Browning Hi Power or MG 42, for a machine that isn't actually that complex, there is no real need to change it, beyond changing the ammo to use NATO standard rounds.

Long, long ago (back in 1982 IIRC) I started my military career as an LMG gunner, (LMG being a rechambered BREN). I still remember the feeling of quality in the build of that weapon. A quality I found in the SMLE rifle I had, that was slipping in the SLR (FN FAL) and SMG, and had finally left the building with the SA 80.

[Cuts]

It could be argued that when you have an excellent design, such as the BREN, 9mm Browning Hi Power or MG 42, for a machine that isn't actually that complex, there is no real need to change it, beyond changing the ammo to use NATO standard rounds.

Long, long ago (back in 1982 IIRC) I started my military career as an LMG gunner, (LMG being a rechambered BREN). I still remember the feeling of quality in the build of that weapon. A quality I found in the SMLE rifle I had, that was slipping in the SLR (FN FAL) and SMG, and had finally left the building with the SA 80.

Ain't that the truth !

I would take exception to the BHP though, while a cam is less likley to wear than a swinging link I still prefer the 1911A1.
However we can't choose what we're issued - that's decided by 'greater' minds than ours. :roll:

Lately it's been decided by politicos, and they much more likely to know what we need and want. :evil:

[Sturmtruppen]

thankyou!,very informative post!,but at least they modified the ww2 era mg,the 7.62 nato is by far better than the 7.92,that's why it is more used in the modern days.
It is a good weapon,but i prefer new fashioned weapons :) .

Two words: NATO standardisation. 7.62x39 is even more used than either and it's fairly crap ballistically.

In any case, Erwin, the FAL is from the 1950s, so is hardly "new-fashioned."
The modified FAL's are and look more new-fashioned than an mg42:

FAL
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EAjul02/images/Inf%20basal.JPG
(ignore the M-72 LAW)

and the MG:
http://files2.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_on_11_30_2002_07_20_32/mg42.jpg6BE1C831-D72A-4527-B7752B47829795CE.jpgLarge.jpg

any diference?

[Cuts]

FAL
http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/EAjul02/images/Inf%20basal.JPG
(ignore the M-72 LAW)



The rifle looks surprisingly like a std FAL with a retro fitted Para kit.

[Topor]

Not a retro kit, it's a genuine FAL para 50.63.
Rear sight & folding stock "knuckle" are original & it has the 20" barrel.
Image intensifier comes as an optional extra :wink:

[Cuts]

You could well be right Torpor, although I thought the 50-63 was available in two quite short bbl lengths.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/fal_para.jpg

[Cuts]

I think the gods of the keyboard inflicted a typo on you earlier, I've had a check and the Para models break down as follows:

50-61 = 533mm bbl - Steel lower
50-62 = Unconfirmed designation of 458mm bbl version
50-63 = 458mm OR 436 mm bbl (aka 'Super-short')
50-64 = 533mm bbl - Alloy lower

The one in Erwin's pic is a 50-61, as all the Argentine ones used steel lowers.

I stuffed up royally, as I'd actually forgotten about the Para models with std length bbl. Dammit ! I must stop eating out of aluminium mess ti..., er, what are they called ?

[Panzerknacker]

In the 90s was also in production a a version of the FAL named "Commando" with only 307 mmm barrel and a large muzzle brake/flash cover.

A little info about a Historic plane.

FMA-IA-58 Part 1

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/9281/16jq.jpg

The Command-in-Chief of the Argentine Air Force officially presented at the beginning of 1968 the requirements to the Cordoba Material Area for the project and construction of the FMA IA-58 Pucará. The construction of the first prototype began in September of the same year, and made its first flight the 16 of August of 1969. The first prototype was equipped with two turboprops Garret TPE 331 of 904 HP, but soon for the series airplanes the Turbomeca Astazou XVI-G was selected, of 1.021 HP, that drive variables three-blade propellers. The Pucará is the only plane produced by the Military Factory of Airplanes that entered into combat, since it was used by the Argentine Air Force in the conflict of the Malvinas Islands. It is a two-seater ground-attack and tactical support airplane of entirely metallic construction, and their general characteristics are:

Width 14.50 ms; Length 14.25 ms; Height 5.36 ms; wing area 30.30 m2; Empty weight 3,985 kg; Maximum weight in take-off 6,625 kg; Maximum weight in landing 5,800 kg; Payload 2,640 kg; Speed at 3,000 ms of altitude, 520 km/h; Speed in deep 750 km/h; Cruise speed 485 km/h; Rate of climb at sea level 18 m/s; Take-off distance 420 ms; Landing distance 230 ms; Normal range 1,400 km; Ferry flying range, 3,400 km.

It count with two Martin-Baker Mk.6 zero-zero ejection seats. The fixed armament consisted of four FN Browning 7.62 mm machine guns located in both sides of the fuselage, and two HS 804 20 mm cannons in the inferior part of the nose.
The cannons contains 270 rpg and a ciclic rate of 850 rpm. The MGs had 900 rpg and shoot at 1000 rpm.

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/560/plano15fn.jpg

Has in addition three pylons to transport external loads by a gross weight of 1,500 kg, being able to take bombs, rockets or napalm tanks. In the time of the 1982 conflict tests for the launch of torpedoes were made, but did not prosper.

Pucará with the more common camouflage scheme used in the Malvinas-Falkland conflict

http://www.choiquehobbies.com.ar/revista/notas/pucara/perfil1.jpg

An example present in the South Atlantic armed with a ventral container of an additional cannon

http://www.choiquehobbies.com.ar/revista/notas/pucara/perfil2.jpg

[Cuts]

Panzerknacker, was the Commando produced by FN, under licence or by a commercial firm ?

[1000ydstare]

From what i've heard the Pucara was a devestatingly effective ground attack aircraft, although a bit weak in air to air.

The Brits saw it as such a threat in the Falklands that the Pebble Island base of the Pucaras were bestowed the rare honour of having a whole SAS squadron (D Sqn i think) and assorted extras such as the NGO parties of 29 Cdo RA "visit" them one night to ensure they wouldn't pose a threat to the British ground forces.

As far as i can recall there were no human casualties, as the SAS ran around the airfield blowing up aircraft with bombs just as they had done in the desert in WW2 at their formation.

A few interesting pictures, (not meant to wind you up Erwin).

http://www.smb.nu/images/pos/0111_elitstyrka_sas_3.jpg

This one was obviously destroyed by either bombs, rockets or gun fire.

http://www.pelagic.co.uk/newsinfo/chronpressrels/images/02pebbleisland01.jpg

This one is strange, it looks to me like some one has tipped it up on end!! Maybe the raiding party ran out of ammo!!!!

http://www.directart.co.uk/mall/images/dhm864.jpg

This is the description for the above painting...

D squadron 22 SAS, made their way to the Argentinian landing strip where they proceeded to destroy 11 enemy aircraft with demolition charges, 66mm rockets and small arms. The destruction of these enemy aircraft, among them Paccaras, most certainly saved many lives among the Task Force and proved a valuable morale booster at the same time.

[Panzerknacker]

Panzerknacker, was the Commando produced by FN, under licence or by a commercial firm ?

It was produced by FM, the goverment firearms factory.

[Topor]

I think the gods of the keyboard inflicted a typo on you earlier, I've had a check and the Para models break down as follows:

50-61 = 533mm bbl - Steel lower
50-62 = Unconfirmed designation of 458mm bbl version
50-63 = 458mm OR 436 mm bbl (aka 'Super-short')
50-64 = 533mm bbl - Alloy lower

The one in Erwin's pic is a 50-61, as all the Argentine ones used steel lowers.

I stuffed up royally, as I'd actually forgotten about the Para models with std length bbl. Dammit ! I must stop eating out of aluminium mess ti..., er, what are they called ?

Not keyboard - brain fart(Mine, not you :P ).
The rear sight on the 50.63 is different as well with a sloped back, rather than matching the ears on the front sight.

[Sturmtruppen]

Not a retro kit, it's a genuine FAL para 50.63.
Rear sight & folding stock "knuckle" are original & it has the 20" barrel.
Image intensifier comes as an optional extra :wink:
Good shot Topor,thanks :D
A few interesting pictures, (not meant to wind you up Erwin).
lol,ok.

The pucara for me wasn't a great plane,apart from unneffective,it also wasn't the most used plane during the falklands/malvinas war.

[Panzerknacker]

The IA-58 was a very good plane...doing his business, wich is not a frontal attack against a Task force of misilistic warships.

Even a torpedo armed version was tested.

[Eagle]

The Pucará was only a good plane at the COIN role, as it was made for. It wasn't apt to be used as CAS fighting against to one of the most powerfull armed forces from all over the world. No one of the 24 Pucarás moved to the Malvinas came back to the continent.

The Pucará hadn't the proper technologies and weapons to be a potential CAS aircraft. Neither have its now, in 2005. The Pucará must be sustituted now, as the most of the air force aircrafts.

The Pucará with Torpedos was tried tu put in practice in order to use it agaisnt the improvised pier and ships on San Carlos. The non-deep waters of San Carlos and the little space to maneuver made the IA-58 an special plane to be used from the islands, its low speed could be better than a quickly attack from the IAI Mirage V "Daggers" or the A-4 Skyhawks.
The project finished with the war, the last days of June 1982.

[Panzerknacker]

The Pucará hadn't the proper technologies and weapons to be a potential CAS aircraft. Neither have its now, in 2005. The Pucará must be sustituted now, as the most of the air force aircrafts.

Well...yeah, I have to agree with you , but I think there is still a gap for this nice aircraft for CAS in the low intensity conflicts.

--------------------

Improved versions:


IA-58B:

This aircraft used two Defa 553 30 mm gun instead the 20 mm HS-804.
As result the lower fuselage presented a very prominent bulge to allow the chamber of this revolver-cannon.
3 aircraft completed.

IA-58C

Very improved version, single place ( the front cockpit was eliminated).
Increased pilot and fuel armor. The nose added a single 30 mm Defa 553 gun

http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/articulos/a-58/charlie.jpg

The fixed weaponry now is : 4 x 7,62 mm with 900 rpg, 2x 20 mm with 270 prg and 1 x 30mm with 170 rpg. The total rate of fire is around 7000 rpm.

http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/articulos/a-58/charlie_corte.gif
Equipped with ECM, HUD and marginal pilons for Matra Magic AAM and Martin Pescador air to ground missiles.

http://www.aviationart.com.ar/galerias/perfiles/pucara/Puca3.jpg

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/attack/ia58c/ia58c-1.jpg

[1000ydstare]

A plan that is good at COIN is actually a good ground attack aircraft, as that is what a COIN aircraft would mainly do.

The real problem is when the insurgents have anti aircraft capabilities!!!!

[Eagle]

I repeat, the IA-58 never had a real capability as a CAS aircraft.

Only the IA-58C would was a considerable weapon (although its horrible appearence), with the possibility of using smart missiles, AA Magic and AS Martín Pescador argentine-made.


Now the variable IA-58D is practically an overhaull to the fleet near of 30 of IA-58A of the Argentine Air Force. At first, the IA-58D would was a fantastic upgrade, with new avionics, new equipments, digitalized screens, smart weapons (aa AIM-9 Sidewinder, as AS-25 argentine-made, laser guided bombs FAS-850 argentine made), rwr/jamming/chaff/flare joint system... but all of we know what happens here with this left-ideas government...




http://www.saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/LMAASA04/thumbnails/D6_A-582_jpg.jpg
There's a little pic from Lockheed Argentina, where the Pucarás are being overhaulled/upgraded (take the word as you like...)

[festamus]

I repeat, the IA-58 never had a real capability as a CAS aircraft.

What is a "real" capability as a CAS aircraft???

Bear in mind, CAS = Close Air Support.

Doesn't specify how or for what! :)

I don't see why the Pucara couldn't fill that role perfectly in a low-intensity battlefield. Armoured warfare and you're probably going to find too many threats for it to operate safely. But the same is true of many CAS aircraft. But against light infantry formations, something like that is probably going to do as good a job as a CAS helicopter, say.

The two seater will also be useful as a FAC aircraft, I shouldn't wonder, providing support to the troops on the ground by calling in strikes by fast-jets for those harder targets that need PGM.

Imagine if they had been able to be used properly in the Falklands. Yes, going up against targets around San Carlos would have been suicide, but I think a lot of the battles would have been fought away from any Rapier batteries, and the most you'd have to worry about would be GPMG and SLR fire, and employing the right tactics would mitigate that somewhat.

Imagine how different the battle would be if they'd used those Pucaras with their dumb bombs and/or rockets, and machine guns, to making swipes at UK artillery and mortar positions? There weren't enough Sea Harriers to cover everywhere at once, and I somehow don't see how they had sufficient helicopter lift or suitable land routes to get Rapiers to everywhere the troops were an. Someone might know better, but I just can't see it somehow.

In short - the conditions were as good as they'd ever be for an aircraft like the Pucara to operate in the CAS role, and the British clearly felt so too and went after them at their base rather than take their chances with them over the troops heads.

[Firefly]

Almost any offensive ac can do CAS, and as Festy pointed out the Pucara, in the right circumstances could and can do CAS. Theres not really much call for airborne FAC today as ground FAC can laser designate etc, but its not a bad premise.

I would think that in a low intensity, low AA threat environment the Pucara would still be a good choice, lower speed, longer loiter etc...

[festamus]

Airborne FAC are surely more replaced by avionics on the fast jets themselves rather than simply ground FAC's with designators. After all, from the ground you need line of sight to designate targets. I guess GPS, AWACS, JSTARS (or soon ASTOR if you're British), rapid processing of recce data, and of course the dreaded network centric warfare, all play a large role in doing away with the airborne FAC role.

And as for prop planes doing CAS.... *Has the sudden urge to go and try sticking things on the Tucano's at work to try it out....*


(before you say, I KNOW the Brazilian's are selling armed Tucanos ;) )

[Firefly]

Thats for sure, but modern targets are finiky, especially in Iraq (unless you are US), so a man on the ground saying - third building from the right of the Mosque, the one with the red windows, is much better than blowing away the School down the road.

But you are right, and its not just ASTOR, look to the Mighty Hunter as well. Even AWACS has a role. Or an RPV etc.....

[festamus]

Speaking of aforementioned Mighty Hunter, have you seen/heard this talk of seeing if they can squeeze what is nearly a heavy bomber out of MRA4??? "How many Storm Shadow can you fit in a Mini... errrr, on a Nimrod?"

[Eagle]

Festamus you are right in all, I didn't specified that the Pucará isn't a real CAS possibility in the actual battlefield, if we are talking about CAS agaisnt a regular army, normally equiped.

[Topor]

The Pucara is well suited for what it was designed for: COIN & low intensity warfare.
It was never indended for use in a high threat environment, though its survival rate might be better than expected, due to use of ULL flight patterns & modern armies' anti air being fast jet oriented.

[Panzerknacker]

The Pucara is well suited for what it was designed for: COIN & low intensity warfare.
It was never indended for use in a high threat environment, though its survival rate might be better than expected, due to use of ULL flight patterns & modern armies' anti air being fast jet oriented

Exactly, that is what I am triying to say.

More info about the IA-58 Delta.

IA-58D:

Basically a IA-58A but completely refurbished.

Amongst the most salient characteristics of this airplane, it is worth mentioning ( as Eagle previusly posted) the widespread use of composite materials in the fuselage, they have contributed to increasing the machine's useful life span.

Some pics of the work done in LMAASA ( Lockheed Martin Argentina Sociedad Anonima, Formerly FMA), in July 2004.

http://img41.echo.cx/img41/5882/d2a577jpg2lr.jpg

http://saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/LMAASA04/images/D3_A-534_jpg.jpg

The new elements includes a new electric wiring and fuel/hidraulic pipes.
Also the proppeller blades and some engine components are replaced for more modern ones.

The more noticeable differences took place inside the cabin, at the controls, mainly in the instrument panel, where instruments were replaced to indicate measures in feet, instead of in meters. For this purpose, Collins VHF 22B, CTL 22 and 32, VIR 32 and RMI 30, as well as a Garmin GPS 150 XL and a Litton HSI.

A factory fresh IA-58 Delta, note the low visibility grey, more suitable for air superiority than the low level attack arena , usual in the Pucara.

http://saorbats.com.ar/GaleriaSaorbats/LMAASA04/images/D1_A-524_jpg.jpg

This photo was took in he LMAASA "Flugplatz", just at 15 km where I am writing this. :wink:

Another atemp of an early modernization of this particular plane:

IA-66:

This version made his maiden flight in 1986.
It was equipped with 2 four blade, 1100shp, Garret turboprops, that boosted the performace to more than 600 km/h and increase the payload to 2000 kg.

http://img62.echo.cx/img62/892/ia664nc.jpg

Also carry 4 x 12,7 mm M3, instead the 30 caliber MGs.
Despite the good caracteristics of this plane, the weapons ( and engines) embargo aplied to Argentina in the post Falkland-Malvinas conflict crippled the logistic for the Garret TP.

[1000ydstare]

I suppose the question on everybodies lips during this topic is...

are the argies a credible fighting force now?

Edit to add, have they swung a way from insurgent fighting and dissappearing people to a proficient fighting force that could fight and win battles? The mountain troops were always pretty good, but what of the general army?

[Firefly]

Speaking of aforementioned Mighty Hunter, have you seen/heard this talk of seeing if they can squeeze what is nearly a heavy bomber out of MRA4??? "How many Storm Shadow can you fit in a Mini... errrr, on a Nimrod?"

Having spent a wee whiles with the aforesaid, youd be surprised, certainly as much if not more ordnance than a GR4 and with a much greater loiter time, plus the ability to eat a pie every 15 minutes I think.

[Panzerknacker]

I suppose the question on everybodies lips during this topic is...

are the argies a credible fighting force now?

Edit to add, have they swung a way from insurgent fighting and dissappearing people to a proficient fighting force that could fight and win battles? The mountain troops were always pretty good, but what of the general army?

Well....considering the losses of the sustain by the Britons I think they are.

I dont have any sympaty with the military goverment, I just give my opinion.

Anyway I read the Mod saying "No more Falklands.Malvinas threads"...so I stop right here :roll:

[1000ydstare]

This isn't a Falklands thread. This is about the Argentine military is it not?

What does this mean?

Well....considering the losses of the sustain by the Britons I think they are.

Any losses sustained by the Argie military by the Brits were 23+ years ago!!! Surely these losses have long been made good.

I know the Argie forces have been used on Cyprus and in the Balkans in peacekeeper roles. (Have they done anything else?)

Are the Argie forces capable of operating independantly of UN, or similar, frameworks? In either Passive or Aggressive roles?

Are they only able to operate inside the sphere of infulence of the Argentine mainland. Or is Argentina able to project power?

This isn't a question on the lines of could you take the Falklands, just what state your forces are in.

What is pay like in your forces?

Morale of troops?

Standard and quantity of equipment?

Workload?

Working conditions?

Are they all pro's or do you still have conscripts going through?

[Firefly]

I suppose the question on everybodies lips during this topic is...

are the argies a credible fighting force now?

Edit to add, have they swung a way from insurgent fighting and dissappearing people to a proficient fighting force that could fight and win battles? The mountain troops were always pretty good, but what of the general army?

Well....considering the losses of the sustain by the Britons I think they are.

I dont have any sympaty with the military goverment, I just give my opinion.

Anyway I read the Mod saying "No more Falklands.Malvinas threads"...so I stop right here :roll:

Do you have any idea of the British Armed forces overall strength in 1982? A tiny proportion of the Army was involved, a bigger proportion of the RAF was involved, but not that much, and a significant proportion of the Navy was involved, but again, a lot stayed at home.

The British Amy in Germany (BAOR) had 3 full Divisions.

So to say the British sufferred losses that could not be easily replaced is a bit far off the mark.

[1000ydstare]

Was he referring to the Brit losses?

If so he is so far off the mark it's unreal. Argie losses were massive compared to Brit losses, but I digress.

Any chance of a confirmation of what you meant Panzerknacker?

[Panzerknacker]

This isn't a Falklands thread. This is about the Argentine military is it not?

What does this mean?

Well....considering the losses of the sustain by the Britons I think they are.

Any losses sustained by the Argie military by the Brits were 23+ years ago!!! Surely these losses have long been made good.

I know the Argie forces have been used on Cyprus and in the Balkans in peacekeeper roles. (Have they done anything else?)

Are the Argie forces capable of operating independantly of UN, or similar, frameworks? In either Passive or Aggressive roles?

Are they only able to operate inside the sphere of infulence of the Argentine mainland. Or is Argentina able to project power?

This isn't a question on the lines of could you take the Falklands, just what state your forces are in.

What is pay like in your forces?

Morale of troops?

Standard and quantity of equipment?

Workload?

Working conditions?

Are they all pro's or do you still have conscripts going through?


Well...as you was talking about insurgents, and desapearing people I assume that you are talking about the Malvinas-Falkland conflict.

And I am sorry , but I am an aviation related guy, and dont have all the information you asked me. :roll:

The only that I can tell you is the army dont see any combat since, and as you say in employed in the UN peace enforcing Task. Actually I know that they are in Cyprus , Haiti and some country in the Balkans ( not sure wich one)

Thanks god the concription sistem was eliminated in 1994 by the president Menem and the actual Army/ Armada/ Air Force is an corps of entire professional staff.

In my opinion is a very good combat force , his mayor defect...The small size.

If so he is so far off the mark it's unreal. Argie losses were massive compared to Brit losses, but I digress.

Probably yes if you talking about personal, the equipment losses are more equilibrated. Off course, the captured Argentine material was big.

It wasnt my intention to restart the 1982 topic.

[1000ydstare]

you was talking about insurgents, and desapearing people I assume that you are talking about the Malvinas-Falkland conflict

To my knowledge nobody was disappeared on the Falklands so no i was not on about that little spat.

Are there any new planes in service with the Argie air force?

[Panzerknacker]

Are there any new planes in service with the Argie air force?

I have no information about these, I only know about the Fuerza Aerea Argentina = Argentine Air Force..

[1000ydstare]

Riiigghhhttt. :shock:

OK then, moving swiftly on. :?

It appears that certain headbangers get there knickers in a twist when certain things are mentioned. No matter. I will continue with my pursuit for information. But will ensure that no insult is implied within the content.

If I want to insult someone on this site I will do it like this...

(name here), you're a mentalist!

For example. :twisted:

Back to my questions. I will re ask a question which will be highly specific about the Argentine military.

The question will, unfortunatly, have a small reference to the Falklands and mention of previous activities carried out by the Argentine military that may upset some of the loons from down south but this is a. neccesary and b. only a reference not an invite for some kind of arguement.

Hopefully some of the more saner persona from down south will be able to answer the following...

As we know Argentina had a conscript army, however in the time of the Junta this army was also used extensivly in various counter insurgency operations and in various roles defending the borders of the country.

The military were also used in various darker roles such as the murdering of their fellow countrymen and women who dared to say that the Junta might not be a good government.

This has now been changed in the last few years. Conscripts are no longer pressed in to service. But are there any still serving their time?

I can't remember exactly but the conscripts did either one or two years in the army, with a further 1 year or so on reserve just in case, so although the conscription has ceased what happened to those already serving?

What were the general opionions of the populace on conscription? Did they support it or did they oppose it? Did this change after the Falklands, when many conscripts lives were, essentially, wasted?

Obviously we know that conscripts were used in the Falklands but was this an exception or a rule? Were conscripts used for other war fighting roles such as COIN or border security?

Are the conscripts used for anything else? For example in Tunisia the Tunisian conscripts are used for labour, they carry out various construction projects such as the maintainence of varoious desert roads. The volunteer/professional side of the army handles any border security issues, etc.

Has the size of the military decreased drastically? Obviously to maintain the size of the force with out conscription would require massive recruitment drives bordering on conscription!!!

What of the young lads who aren't going to be conscripted? We know Erwin missed the draught but he joined anyway, is this normal? Is it seen as correct that you join the army anyway and serve your country. Is there any stigma against those who do not choose to join?

What is life like in the Argentine forces? Again, Erwin has supplied us with various hints such as getting beaten but is this an exception or the rule? Has it changed much since the conscript side has been dropped?

I am aware of one or two incidents during the Falklands when the the regular professional troops used, shall we say, the more robust motivational techniques to get the conscripts to fight. Was this standard practice or just merely because they were at war and it was going slightly worse than expected?

Any sane responses greatfully appreciated.

If you are foaming at the mouth whilst typeing please don't press the submit button. :D

[Cuts]

1000yds, on the constitutional side I've found this:
1 Conscription

conscription not enforced

Conscription is enshrined in art. 21 of the Argentine constitution which states: "Every Argentine citizen is obliged to bear arms in defence of his country and of this Constitution". Yet, there has been no compulsory military service since 1994. However, in the event of armed conflict or a national emergency, conscription may be re-introduced. The 5 January 1995 Law on Voluntary Military Service (Law no. 24.429 Servicio Militar Voluntario) regulates military service. According to this law, military service is performed by volunteers. But, if insufficient volunteers present themselves for enlistment in the armed forces, art. 19 of Law 24.429 allows the government to introduce compulsory military service. Such decision must be approved by the National Congress. In that case 18-year-old men may be called up for up to a year's military service under the terms set out by the previous Law 17.531 on Compulsory Military Service. [6] [8] [11]

recruitment

All men and women aged 18 to 24 may volunteer for performing military service. [3]


2 Conscientious objection

legal right

In case the government decides to introduce conscription, all conscripts have a right to conscientious objection. Art. 20 of Law 24.429 states that individuals who, for "profound religious, philosophical, or moral reasons," are unable to perform their compulsory military service will be required to perform a substitute social service. This may be performed in such areas as public health and environmental projects, but in wartime it must consist of activities to do with civil protection and defence. [4] [6]

procedure and practice

How this right is exercised in practice is not known, as from 1995 onwards conscription has not been enforced.

It is neither clear whether those serving voluntarily are entitled to be released from the armed forces should they become COs.


3 Draft evasion and desertion

penalties

Deserters are tried by military courts, but the punishment for desertion is not known. When desertion is regarded as treason, the Code of Military Justice permits the death sentence.

practice

From 1987 on all military court verdicts have had to be reviewed by the civilian federal court of appeals. [9]

When the 1995 Law on Voluntary Military Service was passed, all deserters and draft evaders were amnestied. [3]


5 History
Up to 1995 there was compulsory military service. Young men were registered as conscripts when they were 17 and were called up to perform military service at 18. In the years before 1995 only 10 percent of conscripts actually served. Approximately 90 percent were exempted - either by lot, or because of physical disability or by paying a sum of money. [5]

President Menem decided to abolish compulsory military service on 13 June 1994 and the Law on Voluntary Military Service was passed in January 1995. This surprisingly swift achievement of abolition was partly due to the public backlash over the beating to death of Omar Carrasco, a young army recruit, on 6 March 1994. Although there had been many cases of conscripts suffering human rights violations, this time the family denounced the incident and received enormous public support over their demand for justice. Two conscripts, a sergeant and one lieutenant, accused to have participated in the death of Carrasco, are in jail but all claim they are not guilty. A trial is going on to judge those who tried to cover up the case, but sofar no military has been found guilty. [2] [10]

Before the 1995 law was passed there was no legal provision for conscientious objection. Refusal to perform military service was punishable by up to four years' imprisonment. Several Jehovah's Witnesses have served three to four year prison sentences in the Campo the Mayo, the largest military base in Argentine. In the past COs have also been sentenced to perform a year's non-combatant service in the armed forces.

Ever since 1984, following the Falkland/