Polish Military

[Gen. Sandworm]

Since we now have a Polish member I thought i would start a topic on whatever people know about the Polish Military of WW2.

[WildBoar]

I don't know much about the Polish forces other than the fact they faced the Germans with cavalry and they fought bravely in the air and on land but stood not a chance :( Other than that they had their own squadrons in The RAF which fought in the Battle of Britain

[Polar]

Few words about Polish unit in RAF:

Polish Air Force in UK have 15 Squadrons. 300,301,304 and 305 was bomber squadron. 302,303,306,308,309,315,316,317,318 was fighter squadron. 307 was night figter squadron.

In Battle of Britain was fight 4 polish squadrons. Two bombers 300 and 301. They bomarded french ports which landing toops. And 2 figter 302 and 303. Additionally in other squadrons RAF was figting 50 polish pilots. 303 was most effectiv squadron in all RAF. Pilots fom 303 Squadron was shoot down 126 enemy plane. In all BoB polish pilots was destroyed 203 enemy plane and damage 36. In BoB was killed in action 33 polish pilots.

North Africa in 1943 was figting Polish Fighting Team. High effectiveness very quickly earned them a "Skalski's Circus" nickname. Between 28th of March and 6th of May PFT shot down 25, probably 3 and damaged 9 enemy planes

In campaigne in Italy was service 663 artillery observation squadron.

[Gen. Sandworm]

I know there were Polish Airborne troops that preticapated in Operation Market Garden. They landed just shy of Arnhem. They where supposed to help with the captureing of the town but by the time they landed they were used to help save what was left of the British 1st Airborne which had been torn to peices by the German Army.

Good flick is a movie called "A Bridge too far" Gene Hackman plays the Polish Airbore commander and does a good job at being pissed at the British planning and execution of Operation Market Garden. It looked good on paper but was a complete failure.

[Komissar Ombrok]

The weak point of Poland was Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. After the German invaded the Poland, the Red Army hit Poland from back... Soviet and German have a victory parade in Varshava together...

[Gen. Sandworm]

The weak point of Poland was Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. After the German invaded the Poland, the Red Army hit Poland from back... Soviet and German have a victory parade in Varshava together...

Oh how ironic is that. :D Considering what happened later. :?

[Komissar Ombrok]

Yeah. :) Very ironic. The Poland was a key for Stalin to invade Europe. After making a pact Stalin was jumped from happines an cried to Molotov "We are lied Hitler!" (that was only one known of SUCH emotions of Stlain, he was very quiet man) After making the border with German Stalin was order to destroy all defence constuctions and began to concentrate forces at the border... But he is late... And "magnum opus" of his whole life was broken...

[Polar]

... Soviet and German have a victory parade in Varshava together...
Soviet and German victory parade was in Brest Litovski.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Really? Hm... Strange... I have two source of info that was parade in Varshava... Maybe both is wrong... Don't know, I'll must find some more sources. Anyone have a url's to photos of that parade?

[Polar]

http://archiwum.zalogag.pl/online/data31/gfx/pakt00.jpg small pic from this parade.
I have few pic from this parade but you must wait that I scan that pic

[TexWiller]

Don't forget that they started to work on enigma machine before the Brits.

[Gen. Sandworm]

... Soviet and German have a victory parade in Varshava together...
Soviet and German victory parade was in Brest Litovski.

Thats what i was thinking but wasnt quite sure. There was something with that town at least ..... final conclusion to the Polish campaign or something.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Very strange. I try to find information myself, but get some STRANGE results. I find a new sourse, that parade was in Varshava, two sources that parade was in Brest... I can't trust the russians sources in that... That's understandable. Russia and German, tried to hide this fact and that was easy with their regimes...

[Dani]

http://img254.echo.cx/img254/8619/nazisovietmeet0gr.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img254.echo.cx/img254/5356/sovgerm120gn.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img254.echo.cx/img254/3063/sovgerm136ej.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img254.echo.cx/img254/8847/sovgerm144gn.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img254.echo.cx/img254/6213/sovgerm152ry.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[Dani]

I find a new sourse, that parade was in Varshava, two sources that parade was in Brest...
As I know it was parade both in Warsaw and Brest.

[FarraoN]

Good pics, Dani

[Dani]

Thanks FarraoN! :D

[Komissar Ombrok]

I find a new sourse, that parade was in Varshava, two sources that parade was in Brest...
As I know it was parade both in Warsaw and Brest.

Excellent pics. About locations... Hm, that explained me a differense of sources. Thanks a lot.

[Dani]

You're welcome!
It seems that it was also a third parade in Lwow.

[Polar]

German Soviet parade was only in Brest.
In Warsaw was only German parade ( Hitler was on this parede).
In Lvov was only Soviet parade.

[Dani]

In Lvov was only Soviet parade.
Agree with you!
http://img154.echo.cx/img154/1341/sovietslwow5kh.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[Dani]

Warsaw October 1939:
http://img247.echo.cx/img247/1215/58890f6rr.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Guderian in talks with Russian officer at "German-Russian" border - 1939
http://img247.echo.cx/img247/4753/guderian4jg.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[Dani]

German-Soviet treaty:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/nazsov/gsbound.htm

...and one of the secret annexes:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/nazsov/sesupp1.htm

[Polar]

Few photos Polish destroyer ORP Błyskawica preserved as Museum in Gdynia (Poland).

http://img196.echo.cx/img196/508/hpim06459kr.jpg

http://img58.echo.cx/img58/3765/hpim06469ml.jpg

http://img34.echo.cx/img34/5694/hpim06493or.jpg

The ORP Błyskawica is a Polish destroyer, currently preserved as a museum ship in Gdynia. It is the only ship of the Polish Navy awarded with the Virtuti Militari medal.

She was the latter of two Grom-class destroyers, built for the Polish Navy by J. Samuel White, Cowes. The name means The Lightning. The two Groms were some of the most heavily-armed destroyers on the seas before World War II.

Two days before the war, on 30 August 1939, the Błyskawica was withdrawn, along with the Grom and the Burza destroyers, from the Baltic Sea to Britain to avoid their loss. Then, they acted in tandem with the Royal Navy's Home Fleet. On 7 September 1939 Błyskawica made contact with and attacked a U-Boat, resulting in possibly the first combat between the Allied and the German fleets.

In early May 1940 Błyskawica took part in the Norwegian Campaign, shelling German positions and downing two Luftwaffe aircraft. Her sister ship Grom was bombed and sunk during the campaign. Later that month, she took part in covering Operation Dynamo, the wildly-successful Franco-British evacuation from Dunkerque.

During the remainder of the war, the Błyskawica took part in convoy and patrol duties, engaging both U-boats and the Luftwaffe in the Atlantic and Mediterranean Sea. In 1941 her 120-mm guns were replaced with British four-inch (102-mm) anti-aircraft guns. On 8 June 1944 the Błyskawica took part in a battle with the German destroyers at Ushant.

During the war, she logged 146,000 nautical miles and escorted eighty-three convoys. In combat she damaged three U-boats and shot down at least four aircraft before the war's conclusion in May 1945, also took part in sinking some other ships.


Bridge of ORP Błyskawica decorated with Virtuti Militari medalAfter the war, she returned to Poland. Since 1 May 1976 she has served as museum ship in Gdynia, replacing the Burza.
few info about ORP Blyskawica from wikipedia

[ging-gwar]

many polish soldiers stopped in the uk after the war, there are many in and around my home town. I know of a polish club complete with a 10ft high polish eagle in stafford, staffordshire. lots of people whos surname ends in 'ski'!

One Old polish boy was employed by an agency to act as a security guard at my company. I got talking to him and it turned out he was 76 years old. an Ex-Paratrooper, Done his bit in WW2 and was feeling as young as ever and was looking forward to getting married again next week!

[LargeBrew]

My home City has a large Polish community that developed post WW2. I've had the great good fortune to meet many of their veterans, most'ly ex Airbourne around rememberence day 11/11( in the UK) as my dad was well known in the ex services community. As a sprog their storys turned into lessons learned and passed on to my son now serving. I have nothing but respect for their proud but sadly dwinderling numbers

[Ale]

As I mentioned in the thread about serving relatives, my Grandfather, Piotr Potworowski, was a Polish Cavalry Officer in WWI and the September campaign, and then escaped to Britain, where he was given leave of absence owing to being a bit past it!

My something cousin many times removed, Tomasz, (I think Potworowski, although off the top of my head I can't remember!) was a signaller in 1st Polish Armoured Div in Normandy.

As mentioned, the Polish Airforce made a considerable contribution, with escaped pilots fighting for France in the spring of 1940 before then moving to fight in the RAF! 303 Polish Squadron was the most successful Battle of Britain Squadron, I believe.

Polish troops also fought in Italy, and as mentioned, much enigma breaking work was brought over from Poland too.

[Rain]

Many people in the world think that in September Campagin, Poland was only defending self. They all are wrong becose Poles had one ocassion to invade Germany.


In 2 September 1939, 17 Pulk Ulanow (17 Regiment of Ulan's) under command of General Abraham, crossed german border and has occupied town of Geyrsdorf. When Ulan's where attacking the town, polish artilery had destroyed german garrison.

Near Czarnkow village, Germans attacked polish troop's near border. Poles had stoped them and chased several kilometers on the german land.

In the night betwen 2 and 3 September, 2 Squadrons of 10 Regiment of Ulan's attacked West Prussia and took over town of Belczac (i don't know the German name), next
9 Horse Regiment, thanks surprise, took over towns of Brzozki Wielkie and Sokolow and many german POW's. Squadrons of 5 Regiment, erned city Klarheim.

[Hanz Lutz]

Can you prove that ,put source or something.

[1000ydstare]

Texwiller wrote

Don't forget that they started to work on enigma machine before the Brits.

Enigma was a commercially available equipment and used in America also at the time, but the German military had some specific key mat to use in the device.

The polish captured this essential equipment and passed it out to the Brits.

It was smuggled out of the country by men of the British Armys Royal Corps' of Signals, who were disguised as a Rugby team on tour.

They hold the dubious honour of being the only British (indeed allied) soldiers to be subjected to a gas attack during WW2.

The "work" of cracking the enigma code was conducted at Bletchly Park in GB on the worlds FIRST programable computer colosus. This computer was destroyed and hidden at theend of the war.

Thus the american claim to have built the first programable computer was rendered rubbish when the 50 year secrecy rule allowed information on the cracking of Enigma to be realeased.

U-571 is the biggest crock of sh1t ever commited to film.

The Poles were very brave if completely outclassed by the Nazis. Please read my posts on the matter that I will find fo ryou later.

I have met poles who fought in the Battle fo Britain and fought the Nazi Blitzkrig on horse back. This was in Poland on a Britsh Exercise. Ex Uhlan Eagle.

[Topor]

Polish Armour & infantry played a VITAL part in the Normandy breakout - Mt Pincon & the "Mace" battle. Few were braver.

[Commando Jordovski]

Welcome to the site topor :D , if you need any help or questions mate dont hesitate to ask me or a fellow mod/admin. :wink: :wink:

[Rain]

Can you prove that ,put source or something.

A found this info, form some polish sites and book "Kierunek Prussy" (Target: Prussia). And beside that, I had lessons about this charges in high school

All pages all in polish. I haven't found anything about it in any english site. I notice that polish contribution in WWII is often minimalized to be the first country that Germany invaded on many sites, nothing more. :>
Site about polish cavalery (http://www.kawaleria.pulsar.net.pl/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=357)
Caledarium of September Campaign (http://www.dws.xip.pl/Kalendaria/Wrzesien)

[Hanz Lutz]

Ok thank you ,but i don translate nothing :lol:

[kinokero]

Hi,

A really great site (in English) giving brief overview of the Polish Army divisions fighting Nazi Germany on the Italian front (1943-1945) under the command of Gen. Wladyslaw Anders - the Polish II Korpus.

www.polishsoldier.co.uk

http://www.thornb2b.co.uk/TB2B_uploads/Passerby.jpg
http://www.thornb2b.co.uk/TB2B_uploads/Skorpions.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

it is a great site man! :D ,thank you.

btw,Welcome Aboard!

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

it is a great site man! :D ,thank you.

btw,Welcome Aboard!

Agreed. Welcome to the fourms, and nice site :D

[kinokero]

Hi,

Another great Polish WW2 (Polish Government sponsored) website with historical overeview of the Polish Forces from the 1939 camapign to Polish Underground (AK), the 'Polish Free Forces' of the government in exile, the Battle of Britain etc., including Polish Armed Forces fighting with the Red Army
Site also has good photogallery, Bibliography and Sources sections.

www.ww2.pl

Hope you enjoy it :D

Kinokero
www.PolandWW2.com

Paintingsbelow by veteran soldier Ted Murawski Home Army (AK) of the Warsaw Uprising 1944 who died in 2002 in Australia.

http://www.thornb2b.co.uk/TB2B_Uploads/Murawski44.jpg

http://www.thornb2b.co.uk/TB2B_Uploads/Murawski/Murawski51.jpg

http://www.thornb2b.co.uk/TB2B_Uploads/Murawski/Murawski52.jpg

http://www.thornb2b.co.uk/TB2B_Uploads/Murawski44-2.jpg

[Firefly]

Some nice postingd there mate. Can I ask what your Avtar is?

[kinokero]

Some nice postingd there mate. Can I ask what your Avtar is?

Hi, pleased you like the links :)

This is excellent site (in Polish) related to the Polish Campaign 1939.
http://www.1939.pl But don't be put off by it being in Polish as there are many interesting pages of visual information and if you need rough and ready online Polish/English translation http://www.poltran.com will be helpful :lol:

My avatar is the breast badge of the Polish 4th Armoured Regiment 'Scorpion' (Pulku 4 Pancerny ' Skorpion' ) in which my dead father served in Italy as part of the Polish II Korpus, 2nd 'Warszawska' Armoured Divison (2 Warszawska Dywizia Pancerna). This unit was the senior tank regiment of the Polish 2nd Corps and was formed mainly from Polish prisoners deported to gulags in Soviet Union after USSR invaded Poland 17th September 1939 and claimed Eastern Poland. Some of these prisoners that survived were released by Stalin in 1941 when he switched sides and joined the western Allies after Germans invaded USSR in 1941 and under Gen. Anders formed Polish 2nd Corps.




Kinokero
www.PolandW2.com

[Hanz Lutz]

Nice kinokero good stuff,and one good polish site which can understand. :wink:

[Firefly]

Your Dad must have had some great stories to tell then I suspect.

[kinokero]

Your Dad must have had some great stories to tell then I suspect.

Hi,
Quite the opposite in fact :( he was the only survivor of his entire family ( they were all murdered by the Nazis in Warsaw 1942) and such were his experiences that he mainly chose to not to tell of them during his life. There were no teams of 'counsellors' to help sort out his head and the term PTSD hadn't been invented!
After the war because the 'Soviet led' puppet regime in Poland and the NWKD were arresting and deporting many hundreds of ex-Polish Forces from Italy who had returned 'home' he decided that there was nothing left for him in Poland so made a new life in the UK, much of which he then spent in the Royal Armoured Corps (British Army) fighting communist insurgents in Malaya, Yemen, Aden and elsewhere in Middle East and Africa - sadly he did not live to see a free Poland again :(


Some photos from my father's 'Skorpion' album:

Ruins of the Monte Cassino Abbey after the battle.
http://www.thorn.co.uk/PUMST/Monte-Cassino_ruins.jpg

My father is top row fourth from left with darker overalls.
http://www.thorn.co.uk/PUMST/4th_Skorpion3.jpg

My father is second from from left.
http://www.thorn.co.uk/PUMST/4th_Skorpion7.jpg

Parade of 4th Skorpions at Potenza Picena HQ, Italy
http://www.thorn.co.uk/PUMST/4th_Skorpion1.jpg

[kinokero]

Can you prove that ,put source or something.

Hi - hopefully this info help will clear up some common misconceptions :)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Krojanty


The battle of Krojanty September 1, 1939 and the myth of the Polish Cavalry charge against German armour


The battle of Krojanty.

The Battle of Krojanty was part of the Polish September Campaign of the Second World War. The battle took place near the village of Krojanty in Pomerania (7 kilometres from the town of Chojnice) on September 1, 1939. It was one of the first battles of the war. Elements of Polish 18th Uhlans Regiment successfully attacked a German infantry battalion and delayed the German attack thus completing their mission. After the attack the cavalry received machine gun fire from German Armoured personnel carriers stationed nearby and were forced to retreat.

During the action the Polish cavalry units met a large group of German infantry resting in a woods near the village of Krojanty. Colonel Mastalerz decided to take the enemy by surprise and immediately ordered a cavalry charge, a tactic the Polish cavalry did not use as their main weapon.

The charge was successful: the German infantry unit was dispersed, and the Poles occupied the woods. Moreover, the German advance was stopped for enough time to allow the withdrawal of Polish 1st Rifle battalion and National Defence battalion Czersk from the area of Chojnice. However, the sounds of the battle notified the crews of the APCs stationed nearby, and soon the Polish unit came under heavy machine gun fire.

According to Heinz Guderian's memoirs, the Polish cavalry charge impressed the Germans and caused a widespread panic among the soldiers and the staff of German 20th Motorised Infantry Division, which delayed their offensive and forced them to consider a tactical retreat. This was however prevented by personal intervention of Gen. Guderian.

Aftermath and the myth

The Polish cavalry charge stopped the German pursuit and the units of Czersk Operational Group were able to withdraw southwards unopposed. Also, it took the enemy several hours to reorganise and continue the advance. On September 2, 1939, the 18th Pomeranian Uhlans Regiment was decorated by Gen. Grzmot-Skotnicki, the commander of the Operational Group, with his own Virtuti Militari medal for valour shown in this combat.

The same day the German war correspondents were brought to the battlefield together with two journalists from Italy. They were shown the battlefield, the corpses of Polish cavalrymen and their horses, as well as German tanks that arrived to the place after the battle. One of the Italian correspondents sent home an article, in which he described the bravery and heroism of Polish soldiers, who charged German tanks with sabres and lances. Although such a charge did not happen and there were no tanks used during the combat, the myth was used by German propaganda during the war. After the end of World War II it was still used by Soviet propaganda as an example of stupidity of Polish commanders, who allegedly did not prepare their country for the war and instead wasted the blood of their soldiers.

"Contrary to German propaganda, Polish cavalry brigades never charged tanks with their sabres or lances as they were equipped with anti-tank weapons such as 37mm Bofors wz.36 (exported to UK as Ordnance Q.F. 37mm Mk I) antitank guns, that could penetrate 26mm of armour at 600m at 30 degrees. The cavalry brigades were in the process of being reorganized into motorized brigades". Another weapon was anti-tank rifle model 1935 (karabin przeciwpancerny wz. 35). Its calibre was 7.92 mm and it could penetrate 15mm of armour at 300m at 30 degrees.

kinokero
www.PolandWW2.com

[Hanz Lutz]

Ok thanks . :wink:

[HR]

Welcome everybody!

It's my first post on forum. There is photo of polish renault Ft-17 modernized in CWS (Centralne Warsztaty Samochodowe) in gallery http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/other/aac

[kinokero]

There is photo of polish renault Ft-17 modernized in CWS (Centralne Warsztaty Samochodowe)

Witam!

Great photo - what is the source? Is this taken by German photographer Hugo Jaeger ? I am looking for colour photo of Polish 7TP?

Great website for Polish Armour is;

www.derela.republika.pl

[michaejlt]

North Africa in 1943 was figting Polish Fighting Team. High effectiveness very quickly earned them a "Skalski's Circus" nickname. Between 28th of March and 6th of May PFT shot down 25, probably 3 and damaged 9 enemy planes
Hello everyone....Going some research for an upcoming virtual movie.
Looking for some photos and websites, and if any...some good books on these brave airmen of the Skalski's Circus that fought in north Africa.

Here is some links about them.
http://ww2-aviation.net/polavhist/circus.html
http://ww2-aviation.net/polavhist/aces.html
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/skalski/skalski.htm
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/horba/horba.htm
http://avstop.com/History/AroundTheWorld/Poland/index2.html
http://stanislaw-skalski.memory-of.com/About.aspx

Any help is much appreciated... :D


Best Regards

[Dani]

Welcome michaejlt.
Thanks for your post. Also please change your avatar with one WW2 related.

[michaejlt]

Also please change your avatar with one WW2 related.
Sorry about the Dani... :oops:


Best Regards

[Dani]

http://polishairforce.biskupin.wroc.pl/skalski.html (in Polish)

and his obituary:
http://www.battleofbritain.net/bobhsoc/obit-skalski.html
R.I.P.

[michaejlt]

~Salute~ Dani

thanks for the links......... :D


Best Regards

[Dani]

You're welcome!
Few more links:
http://www.geocities.com/skrzydla2/PFT/
http://www.airconnection.on.ca/airconnection_decals_thd48024.htm
http://www.ww2.pl/apps/?command=fotografie/szczegoly&id=18&did=138

... and also a book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1855327260/ref=olp_product_details/103-5939891-5640616?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

[kinokero]

Thanks for some great Polish Airforce links here :lol: :lol:
Poland's contribution to the 'Allied' war effort is often overlooked and forgotten if not almost unknown these days :(

[Piotr]

Panowie! Errr... Gentlemen, I believe that the issue of Polish contributions in WWII being unknown or completely twisted (Poland had only Cavalry in 1939, the only uprising in Warsaw was in the Jewish, ghetto, etc, etc) may be slowly changing although I perceive certain forces in the USA actively trying to promote the old negative stereotypes. Recent proliferation of anti-polish lies in the TV and Hollywood movies about WWII is only a part of the problem. For instance, I'm SURE you are familiar with the 2003 book "A Question of Honor." Despite numerous praises of the book expressed mostly by people knowledgeable on the WWII subject, Washington Post published a critical editorial complaining that the book did not address the "Jewish Issue" ( Why? the book was about 303 Squadron pilots.). Moreover, others complained about the book being "a propaganda piece" albeit whose propaganda and what would be the ultimate goal of it was never expressed.
The fact that Polish Armed Forces were the second most numerous cohesive force fighting Germans (The Brits were the biggest) until US decided to join in and the Soviets switched sides is not mentioned in a single history book. The fact that it was Polish Second Corps that took Monte Cassino is mostly omitted from any historic account.
However, I almost choked on my dinner when I saw that the History Channel actually run (several times!!) a program in which historians concluded that it was Stalin who ordered the assasination of General Sikorski. I'm sure many Americans were astounded, that Poland HAD an active general at that time. So, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, we just have ti yank it out (pun intended)!

[Firefly]

LOL, nice post mate and welcome to the site. Please continue to enlighten me with your Polish knowledge.

[Piotr]

Thank You, Mr. Moderator. I've been looking for a website like this for, oh, maybe 15 years :D Hmmm, the second part of your welcome... this would not be an example of dry British humor with a touch of sarcasm and irony? 8)
On the other hand, my paranoia (17 years growing up under a communist regime) coupled with years of obsessive watching of Monty Python Flying Circus might have warped my sense of humor and good manners... :roll: Count on multiple posts from me, anyway :shock:

[Firefly]

No I am being genuine, I have a real interest in Polish forces in WW2.

[Piotr]

I'll do my best. Say, being in Scotland and all, there were several books published in 1942 by Poles ( but in English) in Edinghbourg (now, I KNOW I misspelled that one- sorry). I know this is the wrong forum, but I', sure you can find "G for Genevive" and "L for Lucy" by Herbert (the real name Janusz Meissner) and "To the Brightest of Stars" By B. Pomian. Now I know that at least one store in Scotland has the last one ( Around 10 pounds-google the title and author). These books will give you a certain feel for Polish forces in the West.