japanese wants to get into become a permenent member of UN

[FW-190 Pilot]

do you think its morally right for japanese to do that even they didnt take some social responsibility and apologize to the victims during world war 2

[Komissar Ombrok]

Yep. Russian had a lot of problems with Japan in WW1 and WW2, but our nations very close in reality and we have many union culture achievments. I don't think this a good point to remember old times. For real, war have no "right" and "wrong" sides. On both sides fighting normal, ordinary people. "wrong" or "right" maybe only goverment. But goverment of modern Japan is really different from times of ww2. BTW, the German is member of UN and Euro Allliance and what? Maybe German must paid for Hitlers crime forever? I don't think so.

[FW-190 Pilot]

the difference is german acknowledge their mistake and apologize, the japanese never did that to the victims of world war 2

[Komissar Ombrok]

But who must made this apologizes? Goverment? But modern goverment of Japan have no anything with old goverment. The nation? Show me the nation which really want a war...

[FW-190 Pilot]

no, the thing is they should at least apologize just to the chinese, if they dont, china is going to be a big barrier to stop japan to become permenent member of the UN
some of the chinese are asking for apologize and payment, but i think apologize is good enough, i dont know how to argue with your point, but i think it is just the right thing to do for apologizing

[Komissar Ombrok]

Hm... About payment - the Japan must make more payment for Russia in that case, the small insects(forgot english name) with enceohalit ill even now living in our forests. We can heal it, but can't destoy the source. Excellent example of biological weapon... But we don't request any payment or even apolgizes. The appologizes taken from innocent people cmay be a source for new conflict. Like Versal's convention was hit innocent german nation and was source of new WW. The real method of end the wars is forgot them without any reparations.

[FW-190 Pilot]

Hm... About payment - the Japan must make more payment for Russia in that case, the small insects(forgot english name) with enceohalit ill even now living in our forests. We can heal it, but can't destoy the source. Excellent example of biological weapon... But we don't request any payment or even apolgizes. The appologizes taken from innocent people cmay be a source for new conflict. Like Versal's convention was hit innocent german nation and was source of new WW. The real method of end the wars is forgot them without any reparations.
i partly agree with you, but dont forget its the japanese who start the unnesssary war, if this war havent happen, none of the chinese cilivian would have got hurt/die/rape by japanese soldiers
and who else vote for yes, they deserve it?
i just want to know who vote for it, no offense:)

[Komissar Ombrok]

Hm... In such case maybe I need to ask a payment from you, because many of my relatives was killed by germans? The violence is a reason for more violence. Oh, I'm not pacifist, and know many examples of good use of violence. But international relationships can't be based on it. Or even the memory of them...

[FW-190 Pilot]

Hm... In such case maybe I need to ask a payment from you, because many of my relatives was killed by germans? The violence is a reason for more violence. Oh, I'm not pacifist, and know many examples of good use of violence. But international relationships can't be based on it. Or even the memory of them...
haha, i am from hong kong actually, i put berlin there just for fun

[Komissar Ombrok]

:D Oh, that's fun and revealed the personal matters of you position :)

[South African Military]

OK, let me jump in here and give you the facts. Im living in Japan and I have heard the international news, but I still dont know the complete picture. You guys seem to be fighting. :D

Right so, Japan (as far as I know) hasnt completely apologized for what they did to Korea and China. China is really mad and pissed because they say that the new Japanese school textbooks, somehow dont actually state that they did anything wrong. And they want an apology etc. There is some tension with some rights to sea territory, and China says that Japan is in their terrritory and that they have an oil rig. Som. like that. Id have to say that Japan should apologize, and admit that what they did was wrong, but not letting them in the U.N., well thats the first time I heard of that so I dont know, im not going to vote.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Oh... As I expected... The China not really need apologizings, China want new "Versal pact" for Japan. And only economical reasons have matter in this discussion. The WW2 is only cover for China's wants.

[South African Military]

Oh... As I expected... The China not really need apologizings, China want new "Versal pact" for Japan. And only economical reasons have matter in this discussion. The WW2 is only cover for China's wants.

ya well, whatever you think the deeper meaning might be, I still think that Japan should apologize.

[Komissar Ombrok]

As I told above, WHO PERSONALY must made this apologizes?

[Dani]

I suppose that His Majesty The Emperor Akihito in behalf of Japan.
His father emperor Hirohito was emperor of Japan before, during and after WW2.

Anyway I suppose that apologies will be made in a far far future.
I think that Japanese are still pissed off by nuclear bombardments of the USA and by Kurile Island "ocupation" by the Russia.

[South African Military]

Ok, so they might not opologize, maybe they can change thier textbooks, so that it doesnt seem that what the Japanese did was right.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Hmm... As far as I know, some western history textbooks when it comes to ww2, told a lot about West Alliance, but told about East Front in two strings... And I don't like chinesse geographic maps where the Siberia marked "temporary occupied" chinesse territory. History always served to them who wrote it... This is an inner questions of any country. Outer politic don't must have ability to change it.

[Gen. Sandworm]

Sorry they lost the war so they dont get to be a permenent seat on the council. :P

[Komissar Ombrok]

That dosn't matter. Russia WON the war... You know it. But, many western people thought that war was won only by USA and Britain. For example, some student from USA came to Russia on the culture change. And they really and very seriosly told us a story, that SU was allied with Hitler in WW2. And the USA beat us... In that times, I really want to kill'em... :(

[South African Military]

Ya there are alot of misconseptions(?), In some History schoolbooks from America, they make it seem that America won the war, and they dont mention much about the rest of the countries.

[Gen. Sandworm]

That dosn't matter. Russia WON the war... You know it. But, many western people thought that war was won only by USA and Britain. For example, some student from USA came to Russia on the culture change. And they really and very seriosly told us a story, that SU was allied with Hitler in WW2. And the USA beat us... In that times, I really want to kill'em... :(

He was a retard and is embrassing to other americans. Like myself. But the permenent members should stay USA, France, UK, Russia and China and thats how it is coz they won the war. The others get there chance everyonce in awhile. Poop on Japan

[Komissar Ombrok]

He was a retard and is embrassing to other americans. Like myself. But the permenent members should stay USA, France, UK, Russia and China and thats how it is coz they won the war. The others get there chance everyonce in awhile. Poop on Japan

That wasn't one man. That was a goup of six mans :( For the shame of my country, I also need to said that we have some fools, who thought that war was won only by Russia and even don't know about Eastern Alliance or nuclear strike at the Japan... But we havn't much of them :)
But like I said, that normally practice of all countries to rewrite the history. And if we have any respect to another nations, we must accept any inner politic until they don't harm other countries. Any politics targeted to make some violence to other nations, like China made to Japan, goes only to more violence, and more conflicts in future.

[TexWiller]

like marlon brando once said;past is past:all we have is now.i say they deserve it.they contributed much to human civilization.

[Gen. Sandworm]

I dont get it........why let Japan become a permanent member???? Why not Germany or Italy. Better yet let Sweden or Switzerland they both seem to know how to keep clear of the poo when all hell is breaking loose around them. :?

[Firenze]

to me
the problem of japan is they do not accept that they do attack china in WWII
they are just tolding there youth that they attact china that time is to help china
but killing and robbing are help?
of course not

in my opinion
what china needs is not payment or applogize
what china needs is all of japanese clearly know what is the truth of history
Japanese Government changed their textbooks of schools, such textbooks told the youth of japan a fake history and let them understand what they did in china is totally helping.
I dont know what will be japanese like when 20 or 30 years later. when the youth nowdays became the majority power of japan, will they just think china need their help again and, again, the attack china?
it's possible!

[Walther]

The problem is that by VJ day, the Cold War had already started. American-Ruissian relations were rapidly detoriating in Europe. The Americans wanted needed Japan as an ally, especially seeing Mao Ze Dong´s raise in China (who at this time was still friends with Russia), so they stopped the planned programme of "denazifying" Japan, and, while they hung several exposed war criminals, the people who pulled the strings behind Tojo et al, were put back into power. These were e.g. the big conservative industrialists, who were in the 1930s supporting Japan´s attack on China to get access to cheap raw materials and labour. These conservative powers formed the Liberal-Democrat Party, which has been ruling Japan for most of it´s post war history, and was well liked by the Cold War US, because they were strictly anti communist. They obviously have no interest in having their guilt and responsibility for war crimes exposed, so they have been using their influence to censor and falsify school books, displaying Japan as an innocent victim of American and British embargos forced to strike back by force. Japanese critics of these practices, like the former mayor of Nagasaki are being threatened by ultra nationalist Yakuza mafiosi, who cooperate with the government behind the stage and see themselves as the true successors of the Samurai.
The emperor himself made AFAIK a statement, which might be taken as accepting guilt, some time ago, I think in Korea, but got into trouble because he made it without the consent of the government. By the Japanese constitution, he can only act as a spokesman for the government, he is not allowed to voice oppinions of his own.

Most Japanese I met were genuinly interested in the true history of their country and visibly shocked when confronted with true stories. It also seems that WW2 is still a taboo subject within the Japanese population, at least that old people don´t like to speak about it due to shame, probably like my own mother´s family never spoke about her father who was a member of the Waffen-SS and probably involved in war crimes.

A book I recommend is "Japan at War; an oral history" by Haruko Taya Cook & Theodore F. Cook, a Japanese-American couple, who interviewed a lot of Japanese of the WW2 generation, from school girl to former General, from factory worker to convicted war criminal, in the 1980s.

I think though that at the moment the situation is being used for today´s diusagreements, like the mentioned oil rig or some small islands between Japan and South Korea, where oil is suspected as well. The Japanese claim that the areas are within their territorial waters, while both the Chinese and the South Korean governments demand Japan to withdraw, bringing up WW2. Also there are tenions, like North Korea having fired missiles over Japan into the Pacific ocean, or Chinese nuclear submarines having been caught deep inside Japanese territory.

Concerning the 1895 war between China and Japan, AFAIK it started as a rebellion in Korea, which at this time had a vasal status with the Chinese Empire. At this time China was very backward, while Japan was rapidly industrialising. Modernists in Korea wanted to break away from China and get closer to Japan to modernise their country, while traditionalists around the Korean Emperor, who had to swear fealty to the Chinese Emperor and pay to him, wanted to stay a virtual part of the Chinese empire. It began as a civil war inside Korea and later drew both Japan and China into the fight. In this war the medieval Chinese Army proved to be no match for the Japanese Army, which had been trained by German and French troops (same as the Japanese 19th century Navy had been trained by the British).

Jan


Jan

[student-scaley]

I don't have a problem with the Japs getting on the security council. If one thinks about it they are a very big world player. However although i personally don't object i can see reasons why they shouldn't be and can't be. We have to remember the world revolves around weltpolitik (a phrase used by Bismarck to explain that nations do what they do for selfish personal interests and idealogies don't actually matter in the grand scheme of things). Japan has far too many international enemies, especially in the 'neighbourhood' to join now. China for starters woudl veto their application. Furthermore other nations such as India, a nuclear power, would want in (we've got nukes so why can't we join) if India was let in we'd have to let in Pakistan as they've got nukes and in the interest of local politics to that region, we can't let one get the edge over the other, this would mean other nations would consider nuclear weapons in order to get on as a permanment member. In short if we start adding other nations more will have to follow and this will result in the concept of permanment members no longer be relevant and viable.

[FW-190 Pilot]

because china is the only country in asia that is a permenant member of UN?
Including Japan can change that and prevent China to over-influence the other countries in Asia

[FW-190 Pilot]

to me
the problem of japan is they do not accept that they do attack china in WWII
they are just tolding there youth that they attact china that time is to help china
but killing and robbing are help?
of course not

in my opinion
what china needs is not payment or applogize
what china needs is all of japanese clearly know what is the truth of history
Japanese Government changed their textbooks of schools, such textbooks told the youth of japan a fake history and let them understand what they did in china is totally helping.
I dont know what will be japanese like when 20 or 30 years later. when the youth nowdays became the majority power of japan, will they just think china need their help again and, again, the attack china?
it's possible!
thats true, but what does that has to do with japanese getting a permanent seat in the UN?

[Walther]

Here is some news:
Emperor Akihito has been visiting Saipan.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4625317.stm

"He will start his visit at two notorious cliffs - Banzai Cliff and Suicide Cliff - where hundreds of people threw themselves to their death when defeat appeared certain."

These people (the civilians) were victims of Japanese horror propaganda, which brainwashed the people into believing that the American troops would rape, pillage and torture especially the women and children. Also many civilians were killed by the Japanese troops to get rid of people to feed.
In fact, women and especially children were usually treated very well by American troops.

"Emperor Akihito has visited South Korea and China in the past, where he has expressed remorse for Japan's wartime actions, but he has steered clear of an explicit apology."

While I think that he is sincere as a person, according to the Japanese constitution he is not allowed to make any public statements without the approval of the government, and the LDP government needs the Japanese nationalist right wings as voters.

Jan

[Commando Jordovski]

Japan bombed pearl harbour, america nuked japan twice, i think japan can become a country included in the UN. :lol:

[Hanz Lutz]

Why not thats been before 50 years,Japan is change.

[Commando Jordovski]

Yes i agree, it has changed.

[South African Military]

Yes i agree, it has changed.

Not entirely. They still will not change their school textbooks to include the horrific stuff that they have committed, expecially during WWII. They still go to the temple to respect the Japanese war dead of WWII. Thats what all the fuss is about between China and Japan.

[Commando Jordovski]

Well sure, we all respect the dead, i mean most of the japanese youth of todays ancestors would be among them dead, and we must all respect peoples religeon even though we do not aprove it.
:)
Im a Christian, and believe that theres no other god then the ONE , but i do respect people that believe in other religeons. 8)

[Bladensburg]

No permantent Security Council seat until they apologise for their conduct of the war - and mean it.
The Germans do at least have the good grace to show some contrition but Japan only seems to be sorry that they lost, not that they fought one of the dirtiest wars in modern times.

[Tubbyboy]

Yes i agree, it has changed.

Not entirely. They still will not change their school textbooks to include the horrific stuff that they have committed, expecially during WWII. They still go to the temple to respect the Japanese war dead of WWII. Thats what all the fuss is about between China and Japan.

Hear, hear! Succinct and relevant as always SAM!


(BTW not arse-licking, just he seems always to put his finger right on the pulse!)



(and I've had a few drinks tonight so everyone is my bezzer! :D :D )

[Hosenfield]

my opinion is NO japan does not deserve membership.
i\f japan gets it, then germany should get it too by theory.
the japanese killed 20 million chinese civilians ( mostly women) and raped for years in china. since the dead civilians were mostly women i guess they got raped too.

japan also used the chinese and koreans as slave labor and starved them to death in massive numbers. i believe mroe then a million were killed.

[Man of Stoat]

my opinion is NO japan does not deserve membership.
i\f japan gets it, then germany should get it too by theory.
the japanese killed 20 million chinese civilians ( mostly women) and raped for years in china. since the dead civilians were mostly women i guess they got raped too.

japan also used the chinese and koreans as slave labor and starved them to death in massive numbers. i believe mroe then a million were killed.

China killed and enslaved more of its own people than the Japanese ever did, and far more recently too (they still have work camps for political prisoners) - and it's a permanent member!

[Hanz Lutz]

my opinion is NO japan does not deserve membership.
i\f japan gets it, then germany should get it too by theory.
the japanese killed 20 million chinese civilians ( mostly women) and raped for years in china. since the dead civilians were mostly women i guess they got raped too.

japan also used the chinese and koreans as slave labor and starved them to death in massive numbers. i believe mroe then a million were killed.

China killed and enslaved more of its own people than the Japanese ever did, and far more recently too (they still have work camps for political prisoners) - and it's a permanent member!

Yes i agree with you China i dont remember year i think after ww2 maybe 1947 conquer Tibet and they destroyed tamples and killing people ,becouse people belive in buda .And today china have political prisoners and north corea too,thats stalin and communism politic i think.