Italian Army

[Sturmtruppen]

Put here all you know about italian army,marine or air force during world war 2.

[Gen. Sandworm]

http://rubtsov.penza.com.ru/calendar/pict/mussolini-dead.jpg


Uh Mussolini didnt make it.

[Gen. Sandworm]

Guess nobody thought that was funny. Oh well I did. Call me sick but im sorry F**K Mussolini.

[Sturmtruppen]

Guess nobody thought that was funny. Oh well I did. Call me sick but im sorry F**K Mussolini.

hahahahaha,lol! :lol: ,i think the same,i only put the topic,coz here we put other military units.

[Sturmtruppen]

http://rubtsov.penza.com.ru/calendar/pict/mussolini-dead.jpg


Uh Mussolini didnt make it.

what are them? prisoner soldiers or what?

[Gen. Sandworm]

Thats Mussolini and I believe the other is his wife or mistress. They were killed in ancient Italian style.

[South African Military]

Thats Mussolini and I believe the other is his wife or mistress. They were killed in ancient Italian style.

were they killed because of too much blood to the head? I cant really tell from the pic.

[Gen. Sandworm]

Thats Mussolini and I believe the other is his wife or mistress. They were killed in ancient Italian style.

were they killed because of too much blood to the head? I cant really tell from the pic.

Mussolini died on a clear spring day in April 1945. Allies had moved into the northern part of Italy during the same month. Mussolini attempted to flee to Austria. Near the town of Dongo his truck convoy was ambushed by partisans. The Duce was dressed as a German soldier, in a greatcoat and steel helmet, but his expensive leather boots gave him away. The partisans took him to a farmhouse. He was then joined by his mistress, Claretta Petacci. Claretta had begged to be reunited with Mussolini.

The next day the communist partisan drove both Claretta Petacci and Benito Mussolini to a nearby villa. He ordered the both of them out of the car and stuck a machine gun in their guilty as sin faces. This gun jammed but he got another one and quickly shot at Claretta Petacci and killed her instantly. Mussolini holding back the lapels of his jacket, said "Shoot me in the chest." The partisan shot him twice in the chest and Mussolini was dead.

The morning after Mussolini and his mistress were slain, the partisans dumped their bodies in front of a garage in Milan's Puzzle Laureate. A crowd gathered around; some people shouted foul language, others just stood there and laughed. One woman fired a pistol at Mussolini five times to "avenge her five dead sons." Eventually, the two mutilated bodies were strung upside down for everyone to see. For hours the crowd laughed and spit at Mussolini's body. On the following day he was buried in the family tomb in Predappo.

Comes from: http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=23597

Ill see if i cant get my friends research paper on Mussolini. He spent 6 months traveling doing research before writing it. Its really good.

[Sturmtruppen]

:shock:

[Sturmtruppen]

im not drunk

[FW-190 Pilot]

i heard ancient italian soldiers would rather kill themselves in combat than surrendering to enemy, is that still the culture for italian army in world war 2?

[Fuchs66]

i heard ancient italian soldiers would rather kill themselves in combat than surrendering to enemy, is that still the culture for italian army in world war 2?

No in more recent times surrendering has been the favoured option.

[Bluffcove]

i heard ancient italian soldiers would rather kill themselves in combat than surrendering to enemy, is that still the culture for italian army in world war 2?

Italy didnt exist as an integrated nation until about 30 years before the second world war, so I dont know which soldiers you would be referring to.

Abyssinia was the first "BIG ONE" for the united Italian military and they definetly didnt kill themselves there, being beheaded and having testicles forced into your mouth is a difficult party trick for most people to pull off let alone an Iti.

But seriously Italians are not often heard of to fight to the death, let alone perform Hari Kiri (not hare Krishna - thats different)

[FW-190 Pilot]

i heard ancient italian soldiers would rather kill themselves in combat than surrendering to enemy, is that still the culture for italian army in world war 2?

Italy didnt exist as an integrated nation until about 30 years before the second world war, so I dont know which soldiers you would be referring to.

Abyssinia was the first "BIG ONE" for the united Italian military and they definetly didnt kill themselves there, being beheaded and having testicles forced into your mouth is a difficult party trick for most people to pull off let alone an Iti.

But seriously Italians are not often heard of to fight to the death, let alone perform Hari Kiri (not hare Krishna - thats different)
o, i am referring to the roman empire soldiers, thanks for pointing out that

[wwt]

http://www.comandosupremo.com/ItalianArmy.html

[Sturmtruppen]

http://www.comandosupremo.com/ItalianArmy.html

WOW :shock: really exelent,exelent,exelent link,im impresionated!,the first of italian army i know.

thanks wwt :D

[Sturmtruppen]

in the site: "The stories of (Italian) cowardice carried in the British press, like all things else in wartime, were designed for home consumption by civilians."Siege: Malta 1940-1943 by Ernle Bradford.

[Dani]

Italian submarines in WW2:
http://www.sommergibili.com/indexen.htm

Italian tanks in Africa:
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1975/g_itawna.htm

[Dani]

Italian submarines in WW2:
http://www.sommergibili.com/indexen.htm

Italian tanks in Africa:
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1975/g_itawna.htm

[South African Military]

Italian submarines in WW2:
http://www.sommergibili.com/indexen.htm

Italian tanks in Africa:
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1975/g_itawna.htm

Italien Submarines during WW2?? wow... Did they see combat??

[Dani]

Quoted from that site:

6.12.1940
Smg. "Bagnolini" attacks and sinks the english cruiser "HMS Calypso" (first italian success in the conflict).


12.19.1941
Smg. " Scire' " brings to the port of Alessandria (Egypt), the assault team who heavly damage "HMS Valiant" and "HMS Queen Elizabeth" (heroic action of Adm. Luigi Durand de La Penne).

March 1942
Italian Submarines sink several U.S. merchant (68.000 tonn.) close to U.S coasts.

April 1943
"Smg. Da Vinci" and " Smg. Finzi", for the first time, conduct missions in the Indian Ocean.


Italian Submarines WWII Statistics
Active Boats 172
Missions done 1750
Miles done 2.500.000
Days at sea 24.000
Attacks done 173
Torpedos launched 427


Ships sunk from italian submarines
Merchant Ships 132 (665.317 tonn.)
Military Ships 18 (28.950 tonn.)


Italian Submarines lost
Mediterrean Sea 88
Other Sectors 40

[Firefly]

in the site: "The stories of (Italian) cowardice carried in the British press, like all things else in wartime, were designed for home consumption by civilians."Siege: Malta 1940-1943 by Ernle Bradford.

so confusing,italians are good troops?? i thank they were cowards :?

The Italians in N Africa in 1941 surrendered in droves to the British, hundreds of thousands, the British were so outnumbered they only had 1 guard for about 500 Italians!

[Sturmtruppen]

in the site: "The stories of (Italian) cowardice carried in the British press, like all things else in wartime, were designed for home consumption by civilians."Siege: Malta 1940-1943 by Ernle Bradford.

so confusing,italians are good troops?? i thank they were cowards :?

The Italians in N Africa in 1941 surrendered in droves to the British, hundreds of thousands, the British were so outnumbered they only had 1 guard for about 500 Italians!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Bluffcove]

Oh the Irony, I dont think he understands :D

[Sturmtruppen]

Oh the Irony, I dont think he understands :D

be coward with brits,that`s an irony!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Bluffcove]

Please mods please, Who ran off lets be honest! he cant talk about cowardice. Mount William.

Please Mods he is suggesting my armed forces are cowardly thats an afront i cant stand here and take when it is clearly the reciprocal that is true.

[Sturmtruppen]

Please mods please, Who ran off lets be honest! he cant talk about cowardice. Mount William.

Please Mods he is suggesting my armed forces are cowardly thats an afront i cant stand here and take when it is clearly the reciprocal that is true.

lol, :lol: .

you sound like a boy of two years,- mom! mom!,my brother is hitting me!!-

lol.
you want to disturb the mods with stupid things,just because you want to make the mods my enemies.

please please mods,he said- Oh the Irony, I dont think he understands -
he makes me cry,oh please mods mods!!!

:lol:

[Firefly]

The Italian Military on the whole in WW2 was woefull. In N Africa they were consistently outmanouvered and out fought by a much smaller British Force. The Italians were afrais to venture of the roads and away from the sources of water and stockpiles of food. The British simply outflanked them time and time again, turning up in their rear and forcing their surrender.

Of the units that did do well one was the Ariette, which was part of the force that Rommell commanded. It wasnt so much that the Italians were cowards, its just that they were a mainly conscripted and woefully trained force.

[Sturmtruppen]

It wasnt so much that the Italians were cowards, its just that they were a mainly conscripted and woefully trained force.

the russians had conscript,but they weren`t cowards.

[Man of Stoat]

It wasnt so much that the Italians were cowards, its just that they were a mainly conscripted and woefully trained force.

the russians had conscript,but they weren`t cowards.

When faced with a choice between possible death from German bullets and certain death from NKVD bullets, it's not a hard choice to be brave! Thousands and thousands did cross the lines to surrender to the Germans though, and many Hiwis (Hilfswilligers) were serving in German uniform.

[Walther]

I strongly have to contradict the opinion that the Italian troops were cowardly. IMO, many Italians didn´t really agree with Mussolini´s notions to recreate the Roman empire. So the situation for many Italian soldiers was "WTF am I doing here?". Another thing was that their equipment was very bad, especially machine guns (Breda 37 anyone?) or the overcomplicated little 40 mm mortar (though the Beretta SMG was very good).
Many Italians chose to hide in the mountains (their country is quite suited to partisan warfare) and to form "Bandas", armed partisan groups.
After all the Italians managed to do the one thing us Germans didn´t manage to do: getting rid of their dictator by themselves.

Jan

[Sturmtruppen]

I strongly have to contradict the opinion that the Italian troops were cowardly. IMO, many Italians didn´t really agree with Mussolini´s notions to recreate the Roman empire. So the situation for many Italian soldiers was "WTF am I doing here?". Another thing was that their equipment was very bad, especially machine guns (Breda 37 anyone?) or the overcomplicated little 40 mm mortar (though the Beretta SMG was very good).
Many Italians chose to hide in the mountains (their country is quite suited to partisan warfare) and to form "Bandas", armed partisan groups.
After all the Italians managed to do the one thing us Germans didn´t manage to do: getting rid of their dictator by themselves.

Jan

yes,they could have bad weapons and morale,but when they fought with british soldiers in afrika,they were numbers from 500 vs 20 (for example).

that guys had weapons,no rocks,they were lots of more numbers.

[Voluntary Escaper]

I recall reading that the notion of Italian cowardice was a myth, perhaps originating in propaganda and bolstered by subsequent British military successes.

The Italians were poorly led and badly employed, but apparently fought bravely at the soldier level in North Africa.

The BEF - poorly led - fled to Dunkirk and narrowly escaped the fate of many Italians in North Africa.

I have no national interest to declare, being a Brit, but it is a shame to denigrate the bravery and sacrifice of individial soldiers with a national stereotype.

[Tsolias]

but it is a shame to denigrate the bravery and sacrifice of individial soldiers with a national stereotype.

Couldn't agree more.
The thing is that we only discuss the Italian's army attitude in WWII .
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y263/diveskin/avatar.jpg

[Sturmtruppen]

http://www.comandosupremo.com/ItalianArmy.htmlthis great site has info about the italian army,thanks wwt!.there you have all about italian army.

[Voluntary Escaper]

I recall reading that the Ariete division was regarded as one of Rommel's top 4 divisions during the North Africa campaigns.

It formed the post-Alamein rearguard and was wiped out.

[Sturmtruppen]

I recall reading that the Ariete division was regarded as one of Rommel's top 4 divisions during the North Africa campaigns.

It formed the post-Alamein rearguard and was wiped out.
one of th four.......

[Natxo]

Hello.
Commando supremo is a great website.
Abisinia was not the first big one. Italian army conquered Libia from the Ottoman empire at the beginning of the XX century.
Italian army fought greatbattles in the first world war and that was a big one war, I think.
History has always been madein London or Paris, and the Italian army has been injuriated for his actuations in ww2. The real question is not if the italian army was or was not a really good army. The question is that the Regio Esercito did a good job with the materials which it had.

[Sturmtruppen]

great site,yep

[Enzo Guy]

Did Mussolini have a personal body guard, I can never seem to find anything on Mussolini's armies, just stuff on thedictator himself

[coach mcguirk]

Italians gained coastal parts of Croatia when invaded Yugoslavia, and had many problems with partisans, and lot of italian soldiers joined partisans - they were not cowards, but fighting for a cause they did not beleive in.
Later on Germans had to take over all those parts occupied by italians. there are thousand of bunkers made by italians to defend major ports from mainland attacs. great places to play when you'r a kid.

[Hanz Lutz]

Italians have big problems in Gorski kotar .

[Dani]

Italians have big problems in Gorski kotar .
Please post more infos next time.
First of all the location:
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/677/karta6ih.jpg

Secondly please post what kind of big problems Italians had there?
(You could add links).

[Firefly]

Well said Dani, I can only imagine it was Partisan problems though.

[Walther]

During the Spanish Civil war the Italian Garibaldi battalion of the republican international brigades under Luigi Longo faced Mussolini's "volunteers" on the Guadalajara front (a mountain range to the north-east of Madrid in March 1937. Franco's troops tried to cut off Madrid with a pincer movement from the north-east and at the same time coming from the south. Unitl the end of the war, they never succeeded in capturing Madrid).

First they managed to stop the fascists, even though just before they had suffered bad losses in the fight for the western suburbs of Madrid and were worn out.
Then the Republican Italians tried the first loudspeaker propaganda attack. Through loudspeakers they called the "volunteers" in the other trenches to drop Mussolini and to join them instead.
Many of Mussolini's Italians changed the sides. The remaining Italian fascists were afterwards beaten in a counterattack of the Garibaldis, who were being supported by Russian t-26 tanks. They virtually chased Mussolini's troops ahead, they only had to stop the pursuit due the fact that they were themselves completely exhausted.
During this battle Mussolini lost a whole division, the republicans capured 1500 POWs, plus countless weapons, ammunition and trucks.
The Italian fascist volunteer corps became the laughing stock of the fascist troops.

Jan

[Hanz Lutz]

Weel partizans iz gorski kotar killed italians evary day ,italians hold a city partizans retake city stole ammunitions and guns and run in mountains.
They destroying railyards ,and trains becouse that in winter italians heve not food .
Italians have much offansive against partizans but alweys lose.
I know croatian language and I watch partiznas movies ,italians been covards ,i think that.

[coach mcguirk]

partisan movies show germans as furious bloodthirsty animals, italians as cowards, their colaborators as idiots and partisans as all around best kind of people, but that's only fiction. truth is somwhere between, as history is written by the winners and minor adjustmens are normal

[Hanz Lutz]

Maybe you are wrom croatia ,and you know better I just tell what I see in movies .

[Dani]

Hallo Clauss,
Please check your spelling or try to download IE spell:
http://www.iespell.com/index.htm
Danke schon.

[coach mcguirk]

Maybe you are wrom croatia ,and you know better I just tell what I see in movies .

yeah, you see what is ment to be seen, as those movies were made to glorify peoples fight aginst faschism. for us younger it was allways funny hov a single man with mg42 could take down 100 german infantry and 10 stukas without reloadnig :lol:

[Hanz Lutz]

Hallo Clauss,
Please check your spelling or try to download IE spell:
http://www.iespell.com/index.htm
Danke schon.

I dont use Internet Explorer I use Opera 7.51 and why I need Spell Checker.

[Dani]

Hallo Clauss,
Please check your spelling or try to download IE spell:
http://www.iespell.com/index.htm
Danke schon.

I dont use Internet Explorer I use Opera 7.51 and why I need Spell Checker.

Then be more careful with English spelling. :D :D
No offence intended!

[Hanz Lutz]

Ok I don't perfect in English but I will try to spelling the best I can :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

[Dani]

Maybe you are wrom croatia ...

That's why I insisted (and it's not the first time). It's better to take a reading before you submit the post. Hope you aren't upset! :D :D :wink: :wink:

[Hanz Lutz]

No I am not upset and I am not for croatia ,I have a cousant and she married with croatian and he live in germany.

[coach mcguirk]

No I am not upset and I am not for croatia ,I have a cousant and she married with croatian and he live in germany.

so are you coming in croatia for the summer?

[Hanz Lutz]

No I go in Portoroz ,i never been there but next year i come in split.

[Sturmtruppen]

Maybe you are wrom croatia ,and you know better I just tell what I see in movies .

yeah, you see what is ment to be seen, as those movies were made to glorify peoples fight aginst faschism. for us younger it was allways funny hov a single man with mg42 could take down 100 german infantry and 10 stukas without reloadnig :lol:
:lol: :lol:
I cannot be more agree with you! :lol:

[Hanz Lutz]

Maybe you are wrom croatia ,and you know better I just tell what I see in movies .

yeah, you see what is ment to be seen, as those movies were made to glorify peoples fight aginst faschism. for us younger it was allways funny hov a single man with mg42 could take down 100 german infantry and 10 stukas without reloadnig :lol:

Hehehe that's interesting :lol: :lol: :lol:

[StalingradK]

All I know is that Patton thought the Italians were in sense more dangerous than the Germans, the only reason they did so badly is because they had literatly zero morale, most soldiers thought this War was pointless and that World War I already settled it. The soldiers especially hated their leader Mussolini with his facist ideas. The only good the Italians saw that might come out of Faschism is getting out of the hole but pretty much hated the idea and didn't want to follow in the steps of Germany.

[Hanz Lutz]

Italians did not want to fight ,they go in fight becouse they must.I think that.

[StalingradK]

Yep pretty much what I said

[Hanz Lutz]

Italians in africa http://www.topedge.com/panels/ww2/na/stuart.jpg

Edited by Dani for removing a shocking gif.

[Hosenfield]

according to colonel hans von luck of the 21st panzer division, he said that the Ariete division and some of the italian divisions were brave fighters, but had horrible officers and terrible equipment. the insane lack of NCOs made Italian units difficult to control and prone to retreat...

[Sturmtruppen]

according to colonel hans von luck of the 21st panzer division, he said that the Ariete division and some of the italian divisions were brave fighters, but had horrible officers and terrible equipment. the insane lack of NCOs made Italian units difficult to control and prone to retreat...
The Ariete division were in the top ten of division in afrika (or africa)

[Siberian Rifleman]

I'm just wondering guys, are these soldiers below from the Italian army ? They look quite well:

http://www.feldgrau.com/axisa.html

[Hanz Lutz]

I'm just wondering guys, are these soldiers below from the Italian army ? They look quite well:

http://www.feldgrau.com/axisa.html

I think then they are italians ,helmet is italian i think,

[BDL]

Clauss, can you get rid of the video on your post of Italian soldiers in Africa please? It's not Italians, it's Afghans, in Afghanistan, and to be honest I doubt pictures of parts of people flying round are what most people want to see.

[Dani]

Clauss, BDL is right.
Please remove the gif.

[Hanz Lutz]

sorry guys Dani removed pictures ,i not seen GIF i think that is only picture ,i not watch my post . :oops:

[Cheshire Yeomanry]

Italians in africa http://www.topedge.com/panels/ww2/na/stuart.jpg

Edited by Dani for removing a shocking gif.

They don't look Italian to me, more like US made M3's

[Firefly]

If that lighter coloured stripe, V, thing is light blue I believe they are British Honeys (US M3).

[Cheshire Yeomanry]

There definately M3 Honey's. So unless there captured M3's being used by the Italians, then the Counts caption is wrong

[Piotr]

Well, not to judge anyone's bravery, but while reading (ok, I see eyes rolling around :roll: . just stop it! :wink: ) memoirs of Polish pilots from Skalski's Circus, they mentioned that the members of the Team (Polish Fighting Team-PFT) were the first of the Polish fighter pilots to encounter the Italians fighters ( in Mecchia 229- an excellent fighter plane on par with the Spit). Apparently, the favorite tacticts of the Italians when they noticed the PFT Spitfires coming at them was to roll the plane and bail out - before the first shot was fired. I am not joking (or being mean, or making fun of, etc), I really read it. Also, the soldiers of the II Polish Corps (of the Monte Cassino fame) did not considered Italian units as anything even remotely as good as the Germans.
Now, having said all that, I'm sure that a big part of these events was due to the fact that many Italians REALLY did not want to be in the war, and definitely not on the Axis side.

[Nickdfresh]

in the site: "The stories of (Italian) cowardice carried in the British press, like all things else in wartime, were designed for home consumption by civilians."Siege: Malta 1940-1943 by Ernle Bradford.

so confusing,italians are good troops?? i thank they were cowards :?

The Italians in N Africa in 1941 surrendered in droves to the British, hundreds of thousands, the British were so outnumbered they only had 1 guard for about 500 Italians!

And they didn't fair much better against the Greeks, who lacked British mechanization, firepower, and an air force...

[Piotr]

Maybe you are wrom croatia ,and you know better I just tell what I see in movies .

yeah, you see what is ment to be seen, as those movies were made to glorify peoples fight aginst faschism. for us younger it was allways funny hov a single man with mg42 could take down 100 german infantry and 10 stukas without reloadnig :lol:

Yup, these are funny, but the fact remains that in 1939 Polish Army, underequipped, overmatched, and attacked from behind by Soviets still managed to inflict enough damage (see other posts on this forum) to the mighty Germans that they had to stop and lick their wounds for 3 or 4 month before attacking Western Europe. Hmmmm, maybe shooting down 10 Ju87s without reloading isn't that far out? I know of some fighters in the Battle of Britain getting 3 or four of'em in one flight...