What`s your favourite german gun?

[Sturmtruppen]

Which of this weapons do you like more? if you want to vote another weapon,say that in this topic. EX=WALTHER P38

[Gen. Sandworm]

MG 42 is just awesome i want one. Mean gun. :D

[Gen. Sandworm]

Let me know when you get that deleted on the other topic

[Gen. Sandworm]

Trust me go back and look on the other forum and you will see and X next to edit and quote.

You can delete and post as long as no one has replied under it. Once someone replys you cant delete it until that person deletes the one under your post.

This is another good example of what we need MODERATORS.

I know you made an accident and thats no big deal but we need to be able to fix these problems.

[Preatorian]

FG-42, offcourse, with Zf. 42 4x scope... :D

[Sturmtruppen]

Yes!,I voted FG42 too,german paratropers used it,and it gave them great ressults (but it has poor precisition)

[Cuts]

FG-42, offcourse, with Zf. 42 4x scope... :D

I'm sure it's a typo, but you do mean the ZF4 scope don't you ?

[Preatorian]

FG-42, offcourse, with Zf. 42 4x scope... :D

I'm sure it's a typo, but you do mean the ZF4 scope don't you ?
:wink: Nope, there were two scopes for FG-42,
Zf. 4
http://www.fg42.net/mparts/image_data/estes04.jpg
and Zf. 42
http://www.fg42.net/mparts/image_data/estes17.jpg
Both are 4x, but Zf.42 was a bit later.

[Cuts]

FG-42, offcourse, with Zf. 42 4x scope... :D

I'm sure it's a typo, but you do mean the ZF4 scope don't you ?
:wink: Nope, there were two scopes for FG-42,
Both are 4x, but Zf.42 was a bit later.

Right the ZFG 42, I understand you now.

As the reticle and adjustments were the same, what draws you towards the ZFG 42 over the ZF 4 ?
They're neither particularly good for longer ranges and their nominal magnification tended to be rated quite higher than the actual.

[Gen. Sandworm]

I wouldnt question Preatorian on his knowledge of guns.........hes a walking encyclopedia of info on them. :lol:

[Cuts]

That seems a very strange attitude General, whyever not ?

He seems to be extremely knowledgeable about many weapons, so he's probably the best member to ask for any information regarding the optics. If I don't ask him, how will I find out ?



www.libreopinion.com explained that these scopes were a gift from a benevolent eight-headed visitor from outer space who landed in a spaceship made of hungarian dancing skyfish knitted together with some yoghurt polishing chutney ferrets.
But I'm not sure their information is 100% correct !
:lol:

[Gen. Sandworm]

That seems a very strange attitude General, whyever not ?

He seems to be extremely knowledgeable about many weapons, so he's probably the best member to ask for any information regarding the optics. If I don't ask him, how will I find out ?


Pull the other one! :D That was my point that he is very knowledgable about weapons.

Regarding Optics.......that was one of my favorite and best subjects in college so if you have specfics questions on optics ask away. I just happen to have my optics book handy at the moment as well. :D

[Preatorian]

Right the ZFG 42, I understand you now.

As the reticle and adjustments were the same, what draws you towards the ZFG 42 over the ZF 4 ?
They're neither particularly good for longer ranges and their nominal magnification tended to be rated quite higher than the actual.
Okay, Zf. G. 42... Gewehr-Zielfernrohr (rifle scope, "rifle target-closering tunbe") So, Zf. is zielfernrohr and G. - just gewehr, rifle, weapon...
Why i like Zf.G. 42 more than usual Zf. 4 or Zf. 4K or Zf. 43 (k) ?
Both Zf.G. 42 and Zf. 4, marked "ddx" was produced by Voigtlaender u. Sohn AG, Braunschweig.*
Both are 4x. Both have equal angle of view and optical construction, both graded from 100 to 800 meters...
But - Zf. G. 42 was designed especially for FG42, have you noticed cradles difference ? And Zf. G. 42 got horizontal ajustment from left side of scope, specially designet for FG42 ballistic. For me that more usable, 'cos i'm shoting from my left shoulder.
And construction of cradle for Zf.G. 42 more good than Zf. 4, more durable, because Zf. 4 was desiged as common scope, sutable for rifles, (edited, no SMG) LMGs and other shoting things. So, Zf. 4 have some sort of lock from right side only, but Zf.G. 42 mounted on own rail with screw, and less chances to move scope casually.

*Other Zf. 4 scopes can be marked "dow" ( Opticotechna GmbH, Werk Prerau), "bbz" (J. G. Farbenindustrie, AGFA Camerawerk Muenchen).

[Preatorian]

I wouldnt question Preatorian on his knowledge of guns.........hes a walking encyclopedia of info on them. :lol:
Just a lot of guns walk trought my hands... but in case of FG42 - is it was a great love... :D
My interest for firearms started still in USSR, when (and now as well) all around talked how good soviet army and how perfect is AK... but i need somethng to compare, especially when i looked at soviet cars (i like cars very much) and comparing these ugly scrap with even older japan cars (not in favor of soviet cars), we got in our deep ass of Sberia few, for to plant, i guess.
First non-soviet weapon i tested was a old scratched M16 (yeah, old M16, not even M16A1), right from Vietnam, i guess. It happend during army service, usual practic in some squads of SA. And it was a revelation !
During my police employment i have tested a lot of guns, ususally confscated from criminals.
And a lot of things a just readed.
But about FG42. I have seen both versions of FG42, soonest and latest. Never shot, because that was a museum exponates, but that museum is my customer and i can sometimes feed my desire...
But i have read a lot about FG42 and have seen how that rifle does work in mechanical meand. Also i have heard one legend - when FG42 bite AK47 by shoting from non-steady pose. By legend after that most FG42 was just demolished. I feel it's true, because no one soviet-era books that rifle never was mentioned, seems like nazi never ever made that rifle.
I'm dexteriosly with direct recoil vector rifles, M16, Johnson M1941 so i guess - FG42 can be good choise for me. :D

[Cuts]

Okay, Zf. G. 42... Gewehr-Zielfernrohr (rifle scope, "rifle target-closering tunbe") So, Zf. is zielfernrohr and G. - just gewehr, rifle, weapon...
Why i like Zf.G. 42 more than usual Zf. 4 or Zf. 4K or Zf. 43 (k) ?
Both Zf.G. 42 and Zf. 4, marked "ddx" was produced by Voigtlaender u. Sohn AG, Braunschweig.*
Both are 4x. Both have equal angle of view and optical construction, both graded from 100 to 800 meters...
But - Zf. G. 42 was designed especially for FG42, have you noticed cradles difference ? And Zf. G. 42 got horizontal ajustment from left side of scope, specially designet for FG42 ballistic. For me that more usable, 'cos i'm shoting from my left shoulder.
And construction of cradle for Zf.G. 42 more good than Zf. 4, more durable, because Zf. 4 was desiged as common scope, sutable for rifles, SMGs, LMGs and other shoting things. So, Zf. 4 have some sort of lock from right side only, but Zf.G. 42 mounted on own rail with screw, and less chances to move scope casually.

*Other Zf. 4 scopes can be marked "dow" ( Opticotechna GmbH, Werk Prerau), "bbz" (J. G. Farbenindustrie, AGFA Camerawerk Muenchen).

Thanks for the reply Preatorian, interesting reading.
I'm up to speed on the ZF 4 scopes having owned a few, my present one is 'dow' marked and has kept it's zero through thousands of rounds.

I will say though that the nominal 4x magnification is a bit optimistic, most fall below this strength.
I can't say much about the ZFG 42s though, I've never actually tested the magnification of them.

I don't quite understand how the windage adjustment on the left hand side is an advantage for shooting from the left shoulder, nor have I seen the ZF 4s mounted on SMGs or LMGs - if you have any pictures could you send them please, they'll go into my ZF 4 file.

Thanks once again for the gen.

[Preatorian]

...

I don't quite understand how the windage adjustment on the left hand side is an advantage for shooting from the left shoulder, nor have I seen the ZF 4s mounted on SMGs or LMGs - if you have any pictures could you send them please, they'll go into my ZF 4 file.

Thanks once again for the gen.
About left shoulder and FG-42 with Zf. G. 42... just imagine - butt rests on left shoulder, right hand hold a stock, left hand hold a pistol grip... in case of Zf. G. 42 i just need take off my left hand and i can make windage ajustments. In case with Zf.4 i need twist my left hand over scope of somehow else - found it a bit uncomfortable.
Nothing fatal - just a bit comfortable. At least i have shot a lot with SVD, with all grips on right side by sovet tradition, with mounted PSO-1M-2 scope... and okay, nothing wrong with me... :wink:
Is it just rage of lefthanded man for righthanded weapon designer...

With ZF4 mounted on SMG i make mistake totally - i hawe seen ZF4 on StG44, on G43, as well on Mauser C-98, one seen ZF4 mounted on MG42.
In next time when i got my happy day in museum's depot - i'll try to shot few pictures.
Never seen scoped german WWII SMG.

[Cuts]

About left shoulder and FG-42 with Zf. G. 42... just imagine - butt rests on left shoulder, right hand hold a stock, left hand hold a pistol grip... in case of Zf. G. 42 i just need take off my left hand and i can make windage ajustments. In case with Zf.4 i need twist my left hand over scope of somehow else - found it a bit uncomfortable.
Nothing fatal - just a bit comfortable. At least i have shot a lot with SVD, with all grips on right side by sovet tradition, with mounted PSO-1M-2 scope... and okay, nothing wrong with me... :wink:
Is it just rage of lefthanded man for righthanded weapon designer...

With ZF4 mounted on SMG i make mistake totally - i hawe seen ZF4 on StG44, on G43, as well on Mauser C-98, one seen ZF4 mounted on MG42.
In next time when i got my happy day in museum's depot - i'll try to shot few pictures.
Never seen scoped german WWII SMG.

Thanks again mate.
I see what you mean with the windage adjustment but using a 4x scope on a battle rifle I believe 'Kentucky windage' (aiming off,) is a better idea, there's enough to think about when on a two way range !

I've tried the SVD and the Yugo M76 (in a couple of calibres,) and found them both enjoyable rifles. Still not as accurate as a good bolt though.

I'm rather fond of the 7.92 x 54R, even though it's oldest continually used military round it's not uncomfortable to shoot in any of the Mosin-Nagants either. (The PK and PKM are even more enjoyable than the Nagants :D)

[Preatorian]

Thanks again mate.
I see what you mean with the windage adjustment but using a 4x scope on a battle rifle I believe 'Kentucky windage' (aiming off,) is a better idea, there's enough to think about when on a two way range !

I've tried the SVD and the Yugo M76 (in a couple of calibres,) and found them both enjoyable rifles. Still not as accurate as a good bolt though.

I'm rather fond of the 7.92 x 54R, even though it's oldest continually used military round it's not uncomfortable to shoot in any of the Mosin-Nagants either. (The PK and PKM are even more enjoyable than the Nagants :D)
Have you used soviet PSO 1 scope with SVD ? PSO have very usable grid - you can make wind correction without clicks and calculate range to target by target's height. This grid no need for match shoting but very useful for battle.

I agree - good bolt action rifle anyway accurate than any semi-auto.

It maybe typo - Mosin-Nagant use 7.62x54R, nor 7.92... but probably is it American meand of old russian caliber ? For example - USSR's 5.54x39 mm hawe equal diameter with 5.56x45 NATO bullet. But one was measured by groove and another measured by margin (field ? i don't know right word for it). Or do you meand Mauser's 7.92x57 ?

By the way - try to find special cartriges for SVD - 7H14 by russian classification - sniper cartrige for use with SVD, that give better accuracy.
Still not accurate than Remington 700, but a bit better result.

PK and PKM... :wink: :lol: Enjoyable - right word ! Crazy toy for Rambo,.. and in semi auto accurate as SVD or even better.

[Cuts]

You're right Preatorian, it was a typo. Sorry about that, I should have checked what I had written before posting.

It's over ten years since I've shot the SVD, but I think it was the PSO 1, it had the range estimation stadia & an IR receiver. However a friend says he'll be picking one up soon, (an SVD,) so I hope to renew my aquaintance with it. I'll mention the 7H14 carts to him too.

There was also another rifle, the Medved or Bear but it was made for the civilian market. Were/are these popular in the USSR/CIS ?

[Preatorian]

You're right Preatorian, it was a typo. Sorry about that, I should have checked what I had written before posting.

You not necessary of apologies. I make a lot of typos.

It's over ten years since I've shot the SVD, but I think it was the PSO 1, it had the range estimation stadia & an IR receiver. However a friend says he'll be picking one up soon, (an SVD,) so I hope to renew my aquaintance with it. I'll mention the 7H14 carts to him too.

Sure PSO 1 ! IR receiver... and no more military USSR sniper scopes, PSOs only, with few modifications, for another sniper rifles, VSS for example.

To be sure, is it PSO view:
http://www.d-project.ru/images/stati/pso_pole_z.gif
1: widage correction scale
2: main sigth, zero.
4: Range calcullator (just put some middle-hight (about 170 sm) man inside this triangle, and you can approximately calculate rande to this man...)
http://www.d-project.ru/images/stati/dalnost.gif
3: additional marks for long range shooting (useless, btw, SVD good for 600m, usable for about 800, with luck usable for even 1000m, but 1300... never seen or never heard about good shot from SVD more than 1000, excluding a lot of legends).

About cartridges for SVD... i don't know how easly you can get there, where you live (USA ?) 7.62x54R rounds... i tought in USA you can find anything after time... but i not sure about standard army's 7H14 (even in russian army hard to find it now). Good choise would be some Finnish or Norway's 7.62x54R, especially because Finland still use that cartrdge in army. Avoid use for match shoting, if possible, russian's hunter's version of 7.62x54R. That cartridges better for hunting (lead with copper jacket), got more stopping power, but not for match use (another bullet, less quantity of powder and use another than army type of powder too) .
7Р14 (with steel core, and army's 7H1 with leaden core) cartrige, 9.8 gramm bullet, can give to you about 830 m/s mussle velocity, but usual russian hunting cartrige 12 gramm full copper jacket bullet, can give to you only about 740 m/s...
But finnish made 7,62x54R are best...


There was also another rifle, the Medved or Bear but it was made for the civilian market. Were/are these popular in the USSR/CIS ?
If you going to buy russian modern hunting rifle you can choose between SVD system, AK system and PK/PKM system... :D
Let me guess...
SVD based Tigr (Tiger) and Tigr versions for 9,3x64 hunting selfloaders...
http://www.kolchuga.ru/images/pm/tigr.jpg
That civilian versions of SVD can be in sale with another market names, different style of butt and with varios scopes.
http://www.kolchuga.ru/images/pm/sayga1.jpeg
AK/AKM based selfloaders with common name Saiga (some kind of deer in russia named "saigak"). can be barreled for varios cartridges and equiped with many scopes. Same name have AK based shotguns.
http://www.kolchuga.ru/images/pm/vepr-hunter-m.jpg
PK/PKM based selfloaders with common name Vepr (wild boar).
Also for varios calibers. Many modification with different stocks and butts...
But in USSR was a another SVD based selfloader - Medved (Bear), elite rifle, but still based on SVD... 9.3 mm, late for 7.62... That rifle never was in mass production, 'com in USSR rifles can own only "professional hunters", govermen employed men, who haved right to get rifle.
And price of this rifle was high...
In 1980 producing was stopped, started again in Russia in 1990s, but still not mass in production. That rifles was hand-made and pretty rare. I never seen that rifle, nor in gun-shop, nor in private use. I ever never have heard about it, before you ask me about that... :D
This one ?
http://www.rbs.ru/vttv/99/firms/Izhmash/40.jpg
That Medved 3 rifle.

Most popular hunting rifle in Russia now ? I guess is it Tigr,7.62x54R or 9.3x64... i guess 'cos it looks like real SVD.
Expirienced hunters and just lucky guys have SKS 45, military selfloaders, just from army depots. Usualy that SKS never fired in army. But after time situation changed and weapon factorys started "prepare" SKS to civilian use... That "preparations" just turn real battle rifle in somethin whorse - with less accuracy, at least. "Preparations" cause changes in barrel after those SKS still acurate for hunting, but can't be used for sniping... You can shoot for sure some creature at 300-400 meters, but at longest distance - you just miss. That "prepared" SKS (as well as most russians hunter rifles) got in barrel some thing, that marked bullet during shot for easylest criminal identification, same story with empty cartridge too... Ghost of Lee Harwey Osvald scared our politians to defecation... :lol:
http://www.kolchuga.ru/images/pm/sks.jpg

In Russia hard to legal own rifle. Frst you must have shotgun for 5 years without any criminal notices (and owner should have clearest background as well). All shotguns licensed in police.
After five years of success ownership shotgun you can try to open license for rifle. After all burocracy with luck - you can be an honorful rifle-owner...

[Cuts]

Thanks Preatorian, that seems to be the reticle.

Lots of useful gen there & I'll pass it on when next I see my mate, I appreciate your help.

[Adolf Hitler]

http://198.144.2.125/MG42/Machinengewehr%2042%20-%20Videos.htm

a very very good site for video, chech out the video called "WWII Guns"

[Guderian9200]

My Favorite german gun was the mp44 because it was the first assult rifle to be produced. I also believed that if this gun was more widly produced and came earlyer in the war it could have had a major effect.

[Voluntary Escaper]

88mm FLaK?

[Gen. Sandworm]

88mm FLaK?

Great weapon.........but i dont remember seeing a pic of a German solider running around the battle field with one in hand. Which is kinda what is implied here. Although ARNULD is an Austrian and im sure he could have done it in his earlier days. :lol: If the 3rd world war comes I want ARNULD leading the Americans.........coz everyone is going to be dead anyhow so at least we will find some humor. And how could anyone give a more stirring "to the death" speech than ARNULD. :lol:

[Sturmtruppen]

88mm FLaK?

Great weapon.........but i dont remember seeing a pic of a German solider running around the battle field with one in hand. Which is kinda what is implied here. Although ARNULD is an Austrian and im sure he could have done it in his earlier days. :lol: If the 3rd world war comes I want ARNULD leading the Americans.........coz everyone is going to be dead anyhow so at least we will find some humor. And how could anyone give a more stirring "to the death" speech than ARNULD. :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
the governator still has the weapon from the movie predator?

[DerMann]

I would say the Karibiner 98, mostly because that's the only one off that list I've ever fired, and I do own a variant (Czech Vz.24 that has been converted to curved bolt).

I like it because it has probably one of the most powerful, wide-spread rifle cartridges, not counting the .50 BMG and other large rounds and other civilian/modern rounds, it's very reliable, and accurate. The only bad thing is the recoil on it when compared to other guns.

[DerMann]

Sorry for the double post, but I just found this for sale for my Mauser. It was invented and used in WWI. The Sturmtruppen Trench Magazine. It increased the capacity of the G98 by 400% (that's a twenty round magazine). If I am lucky enough to buy one, I'll install it and get some pictures of it ASAP.

Another reason the K98k is my favorite German gun :D

[Man of Stoat]

Sorry for the double post, but I just found this for sale for my Mauser. It was invented and used in WWI. The Sturmtruppen Trench Magazine. It increased the capacity of the G98 by 400% (that's a twenty round magazine). If I am lucky enough to buy one, I'll install it and get some pictures of it ASAP.

Another reason the K98k is my favorite German gun :D

They were unsuccessful - they got damaged easily & jammed (rendering the rifle a single-shot), they got in the way, they added to the weight significantly, were hard to load cos the spring is quite stiff, and affected the balance.

The Brits tried a similar thing for the SMLE (which of course was detachable), and it was equally unsuccessful & was dropped after 20,000 or so (IIRC) were made.

[DerMann]

And thats why they didn't uses them in WWII...

[FW-190 Pilot]

i think MP 40 is pretty good, low rate of fire made them easy to aim
and MP 44 is the best for it is one of the first machine gun that can shoot at corners

http://www.gunsworld.com/graphs/curvo.jpg
http://www.gunsworld.com

[DerMann]

Only bad thing is that it would erode very quickly and you would have to replace it after a certain number of shots. Forgot how many, think it was a little over 100.

What better than an StG44 that can shoot around corners? One that can see at night!
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/DerMann2/stg44vampyr.jpg
So what if it's 50 pounds of equipment. (don't quote me on that weight :P )

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

i think MP 40 is pretty good, low rate of fire made them easy to aim
and MP 44 is the best for it is one of the first machine gun that can shoot at corners

http://www.gunsworld.com/graphs/curvo.jpg
http://www.gunsworld.com

yeah, i like the MP 40 and 44, theyre my fav. German assault rifles. Its pretty cool that Klashniknov based the design of his prototype AK 47, at least exterior, on the MP 44.

Cant you see the resembelance?

[South African Military]

i think MP 40 is pretty good, low rate of fire made them easy to aim
and MP 44 is the best for it is one of the first machine gun that can shoot at corners

http://www.gunsworld.com/graphs/curvo.jpg
http://www.gunsworld.com

yeah, i like the MP 40 and 44, theyre my fav. German assault rifles. Its pretty cool that Klashniknov based the design of his prototype AK 47, at least exterior, on the MP 44.

Cant you see the resembelance?

....(cough*)(cough*) The Mp 40 is not an assault rifle, its a submachine gun, the Mp 44 however is an assualt rifle. I beleive you know this already, but have just made a mistake, but Im telling you this, to kindoff stop another flame war :D

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

i think MP 40 is pretty good, low rate of fire made them easy to aim
and MP 44 is the best for it is one of the first machine gun that can shoot at corners

http://www.gunsworld.com/graphs/curvo.jpg
http://www.gunsworld.com

yeah, i like the MP 40 and 44, theyre my fav. German assault rifles. Its pretty cool that Klashniknov based the design of his prototype AK 47, at least exterior, on the MP 44.

Cant you see the resembelance?

....(cough*)(cough*) The Mp 40 is not an assault rifle, its a submachine gun, the Mp 44 however is an assualt rifle. I beleive you know this already, but have just made a mistake, but Im telling you this, to kindoff stop another flame war :D

I meant to single out the MP 44 in the assault rifle thing, I know that the MP 40 was a SMG, i just jumble things together, but anyway, thank you for pointing that out.

[Dani]

Please PzKpfw VI Tiger, before posting something on fire arms (at least) read the other threads dealing with. :D :D
Edited for syntax

[Crab_to_be]

PKW: In case you are wondering why people are being cautious, it's because they are still recovering from a certain *ahem* heated discussion involving words like 'Carbine', 'Rifle' and 'Assault'. Like the Balkans, all it will take is one wrong word and the whole lot will go up in flames again. In fact, I think my use of the forbidden C word may have been too much...

TAKE COVER!

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

PKW: In case you are wondering why people are being cautious, it's because they are still recovering from a certain *ahem* heated discussion involving words like 'Carbine', 'Rifle' and 'Assault'. Like the Balkans, all it will take is one wrong word and the whole lot will go up in flames again. In fact, I think my use of the forbidden C word may have been too much...

TAKE COVER!

ah, well thank you Crab_to_be for pointing that out, I'll be more careful with that in the future.

[Man of Stoat]

The reason they look similar in outline is cos there's very few ways to configure a rifle with a curved magazine & a large top-mounted gas tube (which is something design-wise that Kalashnikov did actually copy - almost everything else is different: the way it's put together, the breech block, the controls, etc). The form follows the function.

The HK G3 and the FN-FAL look similar in outline too, despite being totally unrelated designs, as do many rifles, since form usually follows function.

[Pavy]

I like the FG-45
made for the volksturm, uses ame mags as stg44

[Man of Stoat]

FG45? No such thing.

If you mean the VG1-5, they were crude beyond belief:

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/VG%201-5.jpg

If you mean Stg45, they weren't designed for the Volkssturm, but for the infantry:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/stg45.jpg

The Stg45 pioneered roller-delayed blowback, which was then incorporated into most of HK's designes.

[Pavy]

w/e, the site i have told me so, although is in itialian i think, so...



Germania (segue)
107-2 - MKB-42X
107-3 - MP-43
107-4 - CG-45 (M)
107-5 - FG-45, Volkssturm
http://www.earmi.it/armi/atlas2/698.gif

http://www.earmi.it/armi/atlas2/698.htm

[Sturmtruppen]

yes pavy,it´s in italian :) ,i never heard about that weapon,maybe is a less known weapon,the volkssturm where the old men who fought for the german army in the last moments (they needed more soldiers)

maybe i can find some info about that weapon if i search for volkssturm.

[Commando Jordovski]

Mp40s are like more slower firing then the MP44 but I reckon the Mp44 are much more accurate, in any kind of combat situation dont you think?

[Man of Stoat]

Mp40s are like more slower firing then the MP44 but I reckon the Mp44 are much more accurate, in any kind of combat situation dont you think?

They're a totally different class of wpn! The MP40 is an open-bolt SMG firing a pistol cartridge, the MP44 is an assault rifle firing an intermediate cartridge from a closed bolt. The accuracy & range of the MP44 is thus significantly higher than the MP40.

[Sturmtruppen]

mp44 is great,the first true assault rifle!

[Hosenfield]

lugar baby

i heard the mg42 isn't particularily accurate with the bipod and the recoil pushes you back a couple inches.

i've always wondered, how is the accuraccy on the mp40? how does it compare to the accuracy of the ppsh-41 or the sten, thompson.

[Hanz Lutz]

MP44 great rifle

[Jamminjustin]

I just like the Lugar, its the one WWII handgun i want to have the most but a Colt .45 wouldn't be bad either :D

[DerMann]

Just got my "Trench" Magazine for my Mauser. I find that it loads fine, but it does add quite a bit of weight to the rifle.

[Hanz Lutz]

For trenches i think better is MP40 or MP44 :wink:

[Cuts]

Just got my "Trench" Magazine for my Mauser. I find that it loads fine, but it does add quite a bit of weight to the rifle.

May I ask how much you paid for the mag ?

[DerMann]

Ya it was roughly $84 with shipping, and I also bought a cleaning rod for my Mauser. The magazine was $64.50 by itself, though.

[Commando Jordovski]

MP44 ASSAULT RIFLE- my favourite

German paratroopers used the MP44 Assault Rifle for the duration of the War. It has a muzzle velocity of 647 m/s and is sighted to 700m. It was developed in 1944 and influenced the development of the AK47. It has a cyclic rate of 500 rounds per minute. This is the best all around weapon in the game; it’s just too bad you won’t get to use it until late in the title.

Caliber = 7.92
Effective range = 700 meters
Magazine = 35 cartridges
Weight = 4.3 Kg








http://claus.espeholt.dk/mp44.htm

[DerMann]

If I may correct you, the StG 44 had only a 30 round magazine. Unless they had one that I wasn't aware of.

And I don't think that it had that great of a range. I think that might be the maximum range that the cartridge can go.

[Hosenfield]

commando jo, i don't know where you got that information about the mp44. the mp44 was used by panzergrenadiers, paratroopers, and recon units. it was available in even ordinary heer formations.

the effective range is around 300 m. the magazine is 30 rounds.

[Commando Jordovski]

They were used by paratroopers as well as the FG-42, and i got the information from the site i posted :?

[Pavy]

every says the stg influenced the AAK, which is wrong, its just a coincidence in design, thats just a good design for an assault rifle. the Ar15 or M16 on the othe hand is terrible, a little dust and it becomes problematis, and the carbines bolt is to strond and destroies the reciever, which isnt a problem on AK carbins

[Man of Stoat]

every says the stg influenced the AAK, which is wrong, its just a coincidence in design, thats just a good design for an assault rifle. the Ar15 or M16 on the othe hand is terrible, a little dust and it becomes problematis, and the carbines bolt is to strond and destroies the reciever, which isnt a problem on AK carbins

In English please?

The influence came mainly through the use of an intermediate-power cartridge.

The AR15/M16 is not terrible - several European armies have adopted the Canadian-made version recently (NL & DK). The carbine problem is due to the direct-gas impingement system having to run above its original design pressure due to the short barrel and resultant gas take off nearer the breech.

[Pavy]

ill take the m14 over the AR anyday

much more reliable, heaver barrel, more accurate.

but this is a post on german small arms.

[Tubbyboy]

My favourite German pistol is/was:




Whatever it was Hitler used to blow the back of his head off!

Off topic I know....

[Bluffcove]

My favourite German pistol is/was:




Whatever it was Hitler used to blow the back of his head off!

Off topic I know....
Tubby sometimes I feel we are wasted on these people.

[Tubbyboy]

Cheers mate!

[Hosenfield]

the suicide pistol is the walther ppk. james bond used that gun too. so did the gestapo and einsatgruppen kommandoes...

[IronFist]

Mauser, by far the superior firle in WWII in the bolt action section. Easy to build, maintain, easy to load with 5 round clips, accurate, reliable and can have a scope/sight attached easier for sniping purposes.

[Man of Stoat]

Mauser, by far the superior firle in WWII in the bolt action section. Easy to build, maintain, easy to load with 5 round clips, accurate, reliable and can have a scope/sight attached easier for sniping purposes.

There speaks a man who's clearly fired a large cross-section of bolt-action rifles... :roll:

Slow, complicated, dirt-sensitive, inaccurate, crap sights, excessive recoil, crap ergonomics, small magazine, crap safety catch.

And the standard Mausers were not fitted for scopes, btw...

[Firefly]

Its a wonder the Germans stuck with it, being so bad and all. i mean they used it for almost half a century!

[Man of Stoat]

Its a wonder the Germans stuck with it, being so bad and all. i mean they used it for almost half a century!

The Brits stuck with the L85A1 for fecking ages too...

It was there, it worked well enough for their needs (MG-oriented tactics and all), it costs huge amounts to adopt a completely new system and re-tool, and it was home-grown (never underestimate this as a factor - see SA-80 above....)

IHMO, it's the most over-rated military BA rifle ever.

[PropaMcGanda]

I gotta say, the STG 44 gives me butterlfies. :D

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/5266/11321151342912nc.th.jpg (http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11321151342912nc.jpg)

[Charles]

I gotta say, the STG 44 gives me butterlfies. :D

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/5266/11321151342912nc.th.jpg (http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11321151342912nc.jpg)

Great pic there :!:

[bas]

It was there, it worked well enough for their needs (MG-oriented tactics and all), it costs huge amounts to adopt a completely new system and re-tool

That pretty much sums it up, the Germans were well aware of the Kar98k's short commings but in the rush to rebuild the armed forces scrafices had to be made. So instead of adopting a semi-auto or giving full attention to the MKb project they simplified the Kar98 of WWI.

The fact that the Germans were barking up the wrong tree with their semi-auto designs didn't help either.

Also Stoat, I don't agree with your comments about the mauser, they are a fine rifle that served many countries well; not the best out there, agreed but far from the worst too. I'd still use a Kar98k over a Mosin-nagant m91/30 or a Carcano.

[Man of Stoat]

Also Stoat, I don't agree with your comments about the mauser, they are a fine rifle that served many countries well; not the best out there, agreed but far from the worst too. I'd still use a Kar98k over a Mosin-nagant m91/30 or a Carcano.

I'd agree with you ref. M-N (a design far longer lived than the Mauser, btw Firefly!) and the Carcano is just abysmal (see another thread). I will note, however, that I have fired 17 rds in a minute from a M-N M1891/30 and 16 from an M44... An M38 or M44 vs the Kar98k would be an interesting choice to have to make, however...

However, in order of luvverly bolt-action goodness, off the top of my head I'd use the following over the Kar98k:

No.4
SMLE
P14/M17
Springfield '03
Swedish M38 Mauser (IMHO the best of all the true Mausers)
MAS 36 (probably)
Schmidt-Rubin K31 or K11 (no idea how they perform under battle conditions for obvious reasons - I suspect they may be dirt-sensitive)

[bas]

I'd take a Kar98k over a M38 or M44 anyday. I find the mausers action a lot smoother. That said the No4 MkI would be my over all preference of the bolt actions.

Interesting that you choose the springfield '03 over the Kar98k, I would rank that one lower for a service rifle (not range use) because of the un-necessary complications.

I think the MAS 36 is also a neglected rifle although I have never shot one to give a honest comparison.

[Twitch1]

Where the German war technology led in most areas it didn't filter down to the basic grunt early enough. How anyone could equip a force with slow firing bolt action 5 shot rifles is beyond belief when the course of the European war had changed by 1944 so much. Actually they were so set up for K98 manufacture that STG 44s were miniscule in numbers by comparison. If they'd gotten out of the "last war" thinking they could have armed with something better.

There was simply no comparison to the edge GIs had with the M1.

[Man of Stoat]

I'd take a Kar98k over a M38 or M44 anyday. I find the mausers action a lot smoother. That said the No4 MkI would be my over all preference of the bolt actions.

Interesting that you choose the springfield '03 over the Kar98k, I would rank that one lower for a service rifle (not range use) because of the un-necessary complications.

I think the MAS 36 is also a neglected rifle although I have never shot one to give a honest comparison.

The Mauser action is smoother than the M-N action, but there's a few tricks to using one well - the short bolt handle means that it's not that slow, unless you've got sticky ammo, when it's a total PITA. With good, non-sticky ammo, I can shoot at about the same rate in aimed rapid fire with the Kar98k and M-N rifles, but the M-Ns are more comfortable & have a better sight picture (howsabout 8 hits out of 10 in 1 minute on a pair of Fig. 11 targets at 500yds with an M1891/30 for you???).

The complications on the Springfield are irrelevant (e.g. the cutoff) - the bolt action is far slicker (the firing pin spring doesn't seem to be quite so damn stiff, so opening the bolt is easier), and the sights are similar(particularly the 03A3, which I had most in mind).

I've handled the MAS36 but have never fired it - it has a nice short bolt throw (aah, the advantages of rear-locking), good sights, and simple construction. The French assure me that that they're acceptably accurate.

Nothing, but nothing comes anywhere near a No.4, however.

[SS. Kallan]

The Walther Luger is the gun I voted for, its a classy gun, its very powerful, and my grampa owns one. But my second favorite German gun is the MP40, it was a very sophiticated sub-machine gun for the time, and put out some major results. Off-topic. The 1884 electric cartridge looks like a vagina!

[bas]

The Walther Luger is the gun I voted for, its a classy gun, its very powerful, and my grampa owns one.

Walther never manufactured P.08's

Off-topic. The 1884 electric cartridge looks like a vagina!

:roll:

[Cuts]

...

I've handled the MAS36 but have never fired it - it has a nice short bolt throw (aah, the advantages of rear-locking), good sights, and simple construction. The French assure me that that they're acceptably accurate.

Nothing, but nothing comes anywhere near a No.4, however.

The first FRF1s were built using MA36 receivers, I might have to try something similar at some stage.
(By the cringe that's alliterative ! I'll try saying that after a few beers.)

[Gutkowski]

Here are a few of my faves the MP 44 and the FG,s
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/gutkowski/fg42.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/gutkowski/mp44zf4.jpg

[shylethalsoldier]

the MP42 is da bomb u idiots!!!!!! rock on!!!

[Dani]

the MP42 is da bomb u idiots!!!!!! rock on!!!

Would you mind to rephrase?
:!:

Otherwise somebody (immature obviously) will post some "U moron, FG42 rulz!! shut the f*** up with ur MP42 or i kill ya!!!!"

Neither of us want such kind of posts, do we?

[bas]

the MP42 is da bomb u idiots!!!!!! rock on!!!

Would you mind to rephrase?
:!:

Otherwise somebody (immature obviously) will post some "U moron, FG42 rulz!! shut the f*** up with ur MP42 or i kill ya!!!!"

Neither of us want such kind of posts, do we?

Even better Shylethalsoldier, care to post a picture of this fabled MP42? Can't say I've ever come across a reference to this weapon.

[Hanz Lutz]

I found this the Sturmgewehr 44 started out as The Mp42, then changed to The Mp43,then The mp44 before finally being christened The Sturmgewehr

[Cuts]

Where did you get that gen from Hans ?

I think you'll find that the original designation was the MKb. 42.

The 'MP' title only came into effect when Hitler expressed his displeasure at the development of new rifles.

Hence: MKb. 42 - MP 43 - MP 44 - StG 44

[Gutkowski]

Here you Guys Go ,This is what I am asking Santa for christmas
:lol:

http://www.interordnance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=INTERORDNANCE.com&Product_Code=K98PS100

[Hanz Lutz]

Where did you get that gen from Hans ?

I think you'll find that the original designation was the MKb. 42.

The 'MP' title only came into effect when Hitler expressed his displeasure at the development of new rifles.

Hence: MKb. 42 - MP 43 - MP 44 - StG 44

Probbly you are in right i put in google mp 42 and find that text in my post,i am only try to help. :oops:

[Dani]

Probbly you are in right i put in google mp 42 and find that text in my post,i am only try to help. :oops:

It's OK Clauss. Please note also that could be a mistake on some web-sites. Generally you need to search and find from from at least 3-4 different and independent sources.

[Hanz Lutz]

Probbly you are in right i put in google mp 42 and find that text in my post,i am only try to help. :oops:

It's OK Clauss. Please note also that could be a mistake on some web-sites. Generally you need to search and find from from at least 3-4 different and independent sources.

Ok i will .

[HG]

Now that you talk about miss information, it piss me off when some idiot who did not do his research on a certan topic go and make a website with a lot of lies on it and thus confusing people that do not know that it is all lies.

what do you think?

Henk

[bas]

Now that you talk about miss information, it piss me off when some idiot who did not do his research on a certan topic go and make a website with a lot of lies on it and thus confusing people that do not know that it is all lies.

what do you think?

Henk

I think that this is the inherent problem with the internet, it is so cheap to publish your own ideas without an editor examining your theories and references.

This is why I still prefer good old fashioned books (but even those have mistakes and perptuate myths).

[FW-190 Pilot]

i say MP 40 now because its
-lightweight
-32 bullets
-slow firepower but less recoil, which means it should be more accurate?
-although range is low, but most of the fighting is in the city anyways, which range in my opinion, is not that important.

[Man of Stoat]

i say MP 40 now because its
-lightweight
-32 bullets
-slow firepower but less recoil, which means it should be more accurate?
-although range is low, but most of the fighting is in the city anyways, which range in my opinion, is not that important.

- not particularly for an SMG
- pretty standard for an SMG
- more accurate than what? It fires from an open bolt, so will never be accurate. And, in any case, with an SMG, the closer to 450 rpm the rate of fire is, the better -- this makes it more controllable in full automatic fire.
- I am not sure that the majority of the fighting was in the cities.

[Cuts]

Seconded MoS.



I think that this is the inherent problem with the internet, it is so cheap to publish your own ideas without an editor examining your theories and references.

This is why I still prefer good old fashioned books (but even those have mistakes and perptuate myths).

Too true Bas !
There are too many people who swallow a story just because it's in print, my books are full of pencilled footnotes.

[HG]

Yes I also prefer older books of WW2 but like you said that some of them also have misstakes in them. The MG-42 are my best heavy machine gun, the MP-40 and MP-44 are also my best German machine guns.

Henk

[Cuts]

Yes I also prefer older books of WW2 but like you said that some of them also have misstakes in them. The MG-42 are my best heavy machine gun, the MP-40 and MP-44 are also my best German machine guns.

Henk

:roll: Poes !

[Man of Stoat]

Yes I also prefer older books of WW2 but like you said that some of them also have misstakes in them. The MG-42 are my best heavy machine gun, the MP-40 and MP-44 are also my best German machine guns.

Henk

Slight problem there -- the MG 42 is not a heavy machine gun, and the MP 40 and MP 44 are not "machine guns".

[FW-190 Pilot]

Yes I also prefer older books of WW2 but like you said that some of them also have misstakes in them. The MG-42 are my best heavy machine gun, the MP-40 and MP-44 are also my best German machine guns.

Henk

Slight problem there -- the MG 42 is not a heavy machine gun, and the MP 40 and MP 44 are not "machine guns".
if my memory serve me right, MP 44 is an assulted rifles while MP 40 is a submachine gun for its low fire rate

[Man of Stoat]

if my memory serve me right, MP 44 is an assulted rifles while MP 40 is a submachine gun for its low fire rate

So nothing to do with the fact that the MP 40 fires pistol ammunition then? :shock:

Well, at least you were right on the first count...

[Man of Stoat]

if my memory serve me right, MP 44 is an assulted rifles while MP 40 is a submachine gun for its low fire rate

I'm actually intrigued now -- what do you think the definition of an SMG is?

[cpl condor]

the mp 44 was the first in your class. and even is used its mechnism, It's sad to know than this weapon cost in e-bay $ 12,000. I want it! 8)

[FW-190 Pilot]

if my memory serve me right, MP 44 is an assulted rifles while MP 40 is a submachine gun for its low fire rate

I'm actually intrigued now -- what do you think the definition of an SMG is?
i think its a machine gun using pistol bullets, and pistol bullets are 9mm compare to rifles 7.62mm?
i am a really newbies on guns, so it can be very wrong

[Man of Stoat]

if my memory serve me right, MP 44 is an assulted rifles while MP 40 is a submachine gun for its low fire rate

I'm actually intrigued now -- what do you think the definition of an SMG is?
i think its a machine gun using pistol bullets, and pistol bullets are 9mm compare to rifles 7.62mm?
i am a really newbies on guns, so it can be very wrong

Yes, you are wrong. If you thought it was a machine gun using pistol bullets, why did you say it was a submachine gun for its low fire rate?

Have you been paying attention to what you have been moderating for the last six months or so?

Right: Basic remedial firearms 101 --

Starting small:

Handguns -- in modern military terms, these come in two types: revolvers, and automatic pistols.

Revolvers -- hold their ammunition in a number of separate chambers arranged in a circle. Each chamber is sequentially brought into line with the barrel on firing. Typically double action -- this means that either the hammer can be thumbed back, and then dropped by use the trigger, or by pulling the trigger fully through, the hammer is raised and then lowered in one go. There also exist "double action only" revolvers, in which the hammer cannot be thumbed back manually, and "single action only" a revolvers, in which the trigger cannot be pulled through and the hammer must be thumbed back manually. These typically require rimmed ammunition. If rimless ammunition is to be used, Moon clips are required for ejection. Don't know what this means? Google it! Examples: various Smith & Wesson and Colt revolvers.

Automatic pistols -- this is somewhat of a misnomer, since automatic pistols are semiautomatic (i.e. one shot per trigger pull). Ammunition is held in a magazine, typically in the pistol grip. Can be locked breech or unlocked breech, depending on the pressure of the cartridge. Are typically for rimless ammunition, although semi rimmed and even rimmed ammunition is not unheard-of. Examples: Browning high-power, Colt M 1911, Walther PPK.

Handgun calibres typically range from .22 inch to .50 inch

Long arms -- are further subdivided into different categories, which are themselves further subdivided.

Rifles -- long bang sticks fired from the shoulder. Are an individual weapon.

Carbines -- shorter bang sticks fired from the shoulder. Subdivision of rifles. Usually fire the same ammunition as the rifle. E.g. No.5 Carbine, Mosin-Nagant M44 Carbine, US M1 Carbine (this is an exception for the ammunition rule).

Submachine guns -- fully automatic carbines firing pistol ammunition. Subdivision of carbines, and indeed were originally known as machine carbines in British parlance. Are known as machine pistols in German parlance. E.g. MP 40, Thompson.

Battle rifles -- semiautomatic or select fire rifles firing full power rifle ammunition. E.g. Garand, svt 40, fal, G3

Assault rifles -- various definitions exist, but the most common seems to be select fire rifles firing intermediate power cartridges effective to at least 300 m. E.g. MP 44, AK-47, M-16

Machine guns -- Crew served fully automatic weapons firing full power rifle ammunition, or indeed heavier ammunition.

Light machine guns -- typically magazine fed, and fired from the shoulder, typically off a bipod. Some also have the option of mounting to a tripod, for use as a substandard medium machine gun. Fire full power rifle ammunition. E.g. Bren

Medium machine guns -- typically belt fed, and fired from a tripod or other mount. Fire full power rifle ammunition. E.g. Vickers

Heavy machine guns -- typically belt fed, and fired from a tripod or other mount. Fire ammunition which is more powerful than full power rifle ammunition, e.g. Browning M2 .50 BMG (n.b. during World War I, medium machine guns were known as heavy machine guns, since there was nothing heavier at the time).

General purpose machine guns -- typically belt fed, these can be configured as light machine guns (in which role they are a touch heavy) or as medium machine guns (in which role they are a touch light). Fire full power rifle ammunition. E.g. MG 34, MG 42.

[Dani]

Cheers MoS!

[tobias]

I'd say the MP40 :D

[FW-190 Pilot]

if my memory serve me right, MP 44 is an assulted rifles while MP 40 is a submachine gun for its low fire rate

I'm actually intrigued now -- what do you think the definition of an SMG is?
i think its a machine gun using pistol bullets, and pistol bullets are 9mm compare to rifles 7.62mm?
i am a really newbies on guns, so it can be very wrong

Yes, you are wrong. If you thought it was a machine gun using pistol bullets, why did you say it was a submachine gun for its low fire rate?

Have you been paying attention to what you have been moderating for the last six months or so?

Right: Basic remedial firearms 101 --

Starting small:

Handguns -- in modern military terms, these come in two types: revolvers, and automatic pistols.

Revolvers -- hold their ammunition in a number of separate chambers arranged in a circle. Each chamber is sequentially brought into line with the barrel on firing. Typically double action -- this means that either the hammer can be thumbed back, and then dropped by use the trigger, or by pulling the trigger fully through, the hammer is raised and then lowered in one go. There also exist "double action only" revolvers, in which the hammer cannot be thumbed back manually, and "single action only" a revolvers, in which the trigger cannot be pulled through and the hammer must be thumbed back manually. These typically require rimmed ammunition. If rimless ammunition is to be used, Moon clips are required for ejection. Don't know what this means? Google it! Examples: various Smith & Wesson and Colt revolvers.

Automatic pistols -- this is somewhat of a misnomer, since automatic pistols are semiautomatic (i.e. one shot per trigger pull). Ammunition is held in a magazine, typically in the pistol grip. Can be locked breech or unlocked breech, depending on the pressure of the cartridge. Are typically for rimless ammunition, although semi rimmed and even rimmed ammunition is not unheard-of. Examples: Browning high-power, Colt M 1911, Walther PPK.

Handgun calibres typically range from .22 inch to .50 inch

Long arms -- are further subdivided into different categories, which are themselves further subdivided.

Rifles -- long bang sticks fired from the shoulder. Are an individual weapon.

Carbines -- shorter bang sticks fired from the shoulder. Subdivision of rifles. Usually fire the same ammunition as the rifle. E.g. No.5 Carbine, Mosin-Nagant M44 Carbine, US M1 Carbine (this is an exception for the ammunition rule).

Submachine guns -- fully automatic carbines firing pistol ammunition. Subdivision of carbines, and indeed were originally known as machine carbines in British parlance. Are known as machine pistols in German parlance. E.g. MP 40, Thompson.

Battle rifles -- semiautomatic or select fire rifles firing full power rifle ammunition. E.g. Garand, svt 40, fal, G3

Assault rifles -- various definitions exist, but the most common seems to be select fire rifles firing intermediate power cartridges effective to at least 300 m. E.g. MP 44, AK-47, M-16

Machine guns -- Crew served fully automatic weapons firing full power rifle ammunition, or indeed heavier ammunition.

Light machine guns -- typically magazine fed, and fired from the shoulder, typically off a bipod. Some also have the option of mounting to a tripod, for use as a substandard medium machine gun. Fire full power rifle ammunition. E.g. Bren

Medium machine guns -- typically belt fed, and fired from a tripod or other mount. Fire full power rifle ammunition. E.g. Vickers

Heavy machine guns -- typically belt fed, and fired from a tripod or other mount. Fire ammunition which is more powerful than full power rifle ammunition, e.g. Browning M2 .50 BMG (n.b. during World War I, medium machine guns were known as heavy machine guns, since there was nothing heavier at the time).

General purpose machine guns -- typically belt fed, these can be configured as light machine guns (in which role they are a touch heavy) or as medium machine guns (in which role they are a touch light). Fire full power rifle ammunition. E.g. MG 34, MG 42.
no, actually believe me or not, i just assume you know i am talking about submachine gun, so i left it behind and didnt type "sub" for some reason, but thats a very good info, thanks MoS

[Man of Stoat]

I'd say the MP40 :D

Nothing like a well reasoned explanation, is there?

[Firefly]

As the poll is entitled favourite German gun I suppose any reason would do, wouldnt it.

I can say, I like the MP-40 as it makes the best Ice Cream Scoop of any German gun.

Thats just as valid as any other reason.

I think the poll is wrong anyway, it should be favourite German small arms, as hardly anyone has mentioned guns.

What about the 150mm Infantry Gun? I bet you could get loads of Rasberry Riple out with that baby!

[HG]

Ok, now I made a stuped misstake there :oops:, but thank you Cuts for your remark there I realy loved it so much that I would say that you are actualy one.

Now, lets get down to what I realy want to say. Ok yes I would like to say that I am sorry fo calling the MG-42 a heavy machine gun and the MP-40 and MP44 machine guns. The MP-40 was a sub-machine gun and the MP-44 was a assult rifle. Thus I did made a ass out of myself for that. The Mg-42 was the most fearsome machine-gun because of the sound it makes and it was because of the distinctive sound due to and exceptionally high rate of fire.

So again I am sorry for my misstake.

Henk

[Cuts]

If I was at least I'd be useful ! :D

Whereabouts do you live ?

[HG]

Check your PM.

Henk

[Panzerknacker]

Check this...there was a 20 mm Solothurs anti-tank rifles for sale in the U.s in the late 50s for less than 200 dollars...a bargain.. :shock:

http://www.amsd.ch/pictures/S18/S18-1001-640.gif

The S-18-1000 in North afrika.

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/306/s1810027688pj.jpg

[George Eller]

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5205/solothurns1810002hz.jpg

Another picture of the Solothurn S 18-1000

-

[George Eller]

http://img289.imageshack.us/img289/281/solothurns181000017rr.jpg

More on the Solothurn S 18-1000 from "The Encyclopedia of Infantry Weapons of World War II" by Ian V. Hogg (Bison Books, 1977, pp 146-147)

[FW-190 Pilot]

i believe they should have put this rifle on tanks, and try to make that a secondary weapon, then it would be deadly :twisted:

[Dani]

i believe they should have put this rifle on tanks, and try to make that a secondary weapon, then it would be deadly :twisted:

Not a good ideea FW, secondary weapon on tanks "deals" with infantry. And Solothurn is semi-automatic.

[FW-190 Pilot]

i believe they should have put this rifle on tanks, and try to make that a secondary weapon, then it would be deadly :twisted:

Not a good ideea FW, secondary weapon on tanks "deals" with infantry. And Solothurn is semi-automatic.
why not?
to have a 50mm main cannon
then have a 20 mm anti tank rifle against light tanks
then have a MG 42 for infantry

[Man of Stoat]

Because it would be utterly redundant, require a lot of engineering to make it fit somewhere, and would be at best marginally effective. Where exactly are you going to put it? Who is going to crew it?

Oh, and by the way, German tank secondary armament was an MG 34, not an MG 42, due to the barrel changing system.

[HG]

Can you please give me some pictures and info on the MG-34 please. I always thoght that they had a MG-42 as secondary fire on their tanks, I just never looked at the secondary fire of tanks. Very stupid of me! ! !

I also think it is a waste to fit a anti tank rifle to a tank because the main gunner deals with tanks and the other gunner with the infantry wich is a tanks second biggest enemy.

Henk

[cpl condor]

for the individual soldier, the MP 44 revolutioned the world, everyone want a weapon like these. Don't forget, it was the first on its class.
The MG 42 is so good, its still in service en some armies. Was te inspiration for the M 60. 8)

[Man of Stoat]

Can you please give me some pictures and info on the MG-34 please. I always thoght that they had a MG-42 as secondary fire on their tanks, I just never looked at the secondary fire of tanks. Very stupid of me! ! !


Please avail yourself of the perfectly adequate searching features of Google. Stoatgle is a searching service you can't afford.

[HG]

Well the thing is that if I do not know something I ask someone that know because if someone else asked me I will help him because that is what you do if someone ask you. I thought since you know so much about the guns I will ask for any help and info and because you can not allways trust what you read on the net, but thanks any way.

Henk

[Dani]

Can you please give me some pictures and info on the MG-34 please. I always thoght that they had a MG-42 as secondary fire on their tanks, I just never looked at the secondary fire of tanks. Very stupid of me! ! !


Please avail yourself of the perfectly adequate searching features of Google. Stoatgle is a searching service you can't afford.

:lol: :lol: Quite true.

HG, will you try to to search or read before you post??

Thanks MoS, his post missed me!

[HG]

I am sorry but I did not know it was wrong to ask something. I will not ask something again.

I am sorry.

Henk

[Man of Stoat]

I am sorry but I did not know it was wrong to ask something. I will not ask something again.

I am sorry.

Henk

Asking things is not a problem per se -- but effectively asking me to spend a significant portion of time to find something out, collect, reference, collate, cut and paste, and former coherent post with, that you could find out yourself and read in a much shorter length of time is.

It smacks of laziness.

[Dani]

Well the thing is that if I do not know something I ask someone that know because if someone else asked me I will help him because that is what you do if someone ask you. I thought since you know so much about the guns I will ask for any help and info and because you can not allways trust what you read on the net, but thanks any way.

Henk

Come on, HG!! Try to type MG-42 on Google and just read the results!
From 355,000 results, let's say that 1/3 are dealing with anything else but MG machinegun. Still remains 2/3 from 355,000!!!! Check 5 of them!!

And speaking of my emboldment, if you don't trust always what you read on the net (e.g. tons of results of MG-42 Google searching), why you trust MoS? Only because he say so and by far he is our expert in weapons? Check anything from different sources (and I mean not only the internet, but books and so on). For a user that join our forum (WW2 related remember!) it is very strange that you don't know anything about the basics. If you are so young, please learn to to search!!!

I always try to help, but on your post, I'm afraid that my reply should be the same as MoS's.

[Dani]

I am sorry but I did not know it was wrong to ask something. I will not ask something again.

I am sorry.

Henk


Wrong Henk!!!!

First search, second ask!

And I request you to ask if you will not have some answers from your searching! :wink:

[HG]

Ok fine. I did not ask MoS I asked everyone. I am sorry again, I have just never been interested in Firearms of WW2 before and are starting to learn now. I know a lot about WW2 and are still learning a lot each day. Yes, I am still young and that It does not mean anything.

What I realy meant was that you should only say if it was used by the infantry or on tanks or if it was a great gun or if it was a machine-gun or not. No hard feelings I will do my search and I am not LAZY for asking that.

Again I AM SORRY ! !

Thank you.

Henk

[Dani]

There's no need to apologise Henk. It could happened to anyone and we all learn new things every day.

In a matter of fact, most of us are very touchy speaking of firearms. You'll understand what I mean when you'll read next year the "Archive 2005" section.

Cheers!
Dani

[HG]

It is cool and I understand.

Henk

[Cash]

The MP40. :)

[Nickdfresh]

I did once read, in a book and not on the web, that the MG34 was withdrawn from frontline infantry service because, while it was very accurate and precise, it was considered to be fragile and unreliable when in the muddy, dirty, and in the unhygienic conditions of combat. SO the MG42 was developed as a more robust gun. The MG34 was still considered suitable for mounting on vehicles such as panzers and half-tracks since if it came into contact with mud, it most likely wouldn't need to be fired anyway since the tank or armored vehicle would have been knocked out....

[Panzer Ace]

I am sorry but I did not know it was wrong to ask something. I will not ask something again.

I am sorry.

Henk

Asking things is not a problem per se -- but effectively asking me to spend a significant portion of time to find something out, collect, reference, collate, cut and paste, and former coherent post with, that you could find out yourself and read in a much shorter length of time is.

It smacks of laziness.

Hmmm..... HG asking you or anyone for that matter to post some links about firearms should not be a big deal. Ive searched the internet for years about WW2.... and I've found some pretty interesting things. But I come on here.... and everyone is posting links and pictures that I probably would of never found on my own. Some people have better luck in their search results.

I guess i should watch what i ask on this site too.... we're all here to learn and discuss about WW2.... helping others should not be a problem...and if it is... then you're in the wrong place.

Thats just my 0.02cents...

[Panzerknacker]

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5205/solothurns1810002hz.jpg

Another picture of the Solothurn S 18-1000

-

George , the caption in that picture is slightly wrong, the gun is a S-18-100 not a S-18-1000, the diference was that the earlier use a 20x105mm caliber and the model 1000 used a 20x138B mm caliber wich was compatible with the german 2cm Flak 30/38 and the 20mm Breda/Scotti used by the Italians.

Here other pic of the "Tankbüchse" S-18-100 this for the spanish language market, really nice want one :D

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/9682/solos1006np.jpg

[Man of Stoat]

I did once read, in a book and not on the web, that the MG34 was withdrawn from frontline infantry service because, while it was very accurate and precise, it was considered to be fragile and unreliable when in the muddy, dirty, and in the unhygienic conditions of combat. SO the MG42 was developed as a more robust gun. The MG34 was still considered suitable for mounting on vehicles such as panzers and half-tracks since if it came into contact with mud, it most likely wouldn't need to be fired anyway since the tank or armored vehicle would have been knocked out....

Not entirely correct -- the MG 34 was never withdrawn from front-line infantry service, it was merely supplanted. It wasn't fragility that was an issue -- it was rather dirt-sensitive, expensive and time-consuming to produce. The MG 42 was developed in the main parts to be cheaper and faster to produce. The MG 34 remained in production as a vehicle gun not because it was "still considered suitable", but because the MG 42 was eminently unsuitable as a vehicle gun due to its method of barrel changing.

[wajdi]

Greetings, I'm new to this forum (take a look at my profile), but after 22 years active duty, and now working as a 'security consultant' (yeah Blackwater), I have to admit that I'm carrying a Walther P-38 as a personal sidearm. I got a copy of the issue holster for it, and wear it crossdraw-style. I also carry a pouch with two extra magazines for my baby (I named it Gerda), which gives me a total of four magazines. My favorite load is Remington's 147 grain jacketed hollow point, which gives 18 inches of penetration in ballistic gel. And, before anyone asks; no, I haven't yet had to use it. Most of my work is done with a modified M-14. More about me: I started trolling through WWII forums looking for information on an ancestor of mine, one SS-Standartenfuerer Willi Seibert, who was an economist assigned to Einsatzgruppe D (as vice commander) for a while. However, all I can find is the results of the Neuremburg trial. I'd like more information on his background, place of birth, and when, and where, he died. Was he one of the few that was actually hanged? Or did he just serve time and get released?

wajdi

[Kovalski]

Welcome wajdi,
could you explain which members of Einsatzgruppe D should be awarded medals and why?
I hope I don't understand your signature.

[Dani]

wajdi, your signature might be considered offensive, therefore please change or edit it.

Thank you!

[Cuts]

Do you mean this one Dani ? :?

To quote Henry A. Wallace: "Fascisim is not our problem, conglomerate based fascism IS." And, so it is turning out to be.

[Panzerknacker]

Dani post was targeted to a phrase saying "Einsatgruppe wasnt that bad after all" :roll:

Wadji edited that.

[Cuts]

Ok, thanks.

[Dani]

Sorry for my late reply. Thanks Panzerknacker for clarifying.

[Panzerknacker]

Artillerie Luger M1916 200mm long barrel and 32 shot "trommelmagazin",

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3395/luger18uf.jpg

[Outerheaven]

I've always been fascinated by the Fallschrimjägergewehr 42. I think it's becuase it was only issued to the Fallschrimjäger. Whitch have been my favorite units for a while now.

[SturmGewehr]

My favoirite is maschinengewehr 42 it was the best in ww2 and was faster then the other allieds guns.

[fallshirmjäger]

yes the MG 42 was awsome, it was THE POWER when it came to MGs, but it wasnt to outstanding for say the russian front. yes it mowed down the russians greatly but on a full auto burst, it wasted alot of ammo. when you are fighting millions of men, you want to save ammo and the MG 42, well it sprayed. the FG 42 could be used as a rifle for less enemys and a smg or a SAW, but thats pushing it, for multiple enemys.

by the way i'm new here and i'm looking forward to posting.

[Dani]

by the way i'm new here and i'm looking forward to posting.

Welcome!
Please change your avatar with a ww2 related one. It's one of our rules.

[war heroes]

yea i did vote for the mp 44 i think it is a mean and awesome weapon all the rest of them how ever are very nice

[Hiddenrug]

yes the MG 42 was awsome, it was THE POWER when it came to MGs, but it wasnt to outstanding for say the russian front. yes it mowed down the russians greatly but on a full auto burst, it wasted alot of ammo. when you are fighting millions of men, you want to save ammo and the MG 42, well it sprayed. the FG 42 could be used as a rifle for less enemys and a smg or a SAW, but thats pushing it, for multiple enemys.

by the way i'm new here and i'm looking forward to posting.
I would have to agree with you on the MG-42. Brilliant in everyway, sort of.

[fallshirmjäger]

ya the all round weapon thing is very appealing to me.

sorry about the avitar....

[Nickdfresh]

I don't know if it's my "favorite" weapon, but the Walther P-38 deserves a mention here, if it hasn't been already.

Excellent, reliable pistol I gather, and used until recently in front line service with many countries.
http://www.efour4ever.com/p38_waffenss.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/walther_p38_l.jpg

More. (http://www.efour4ever.com/p38.htm)

More. (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg68-e.htm)

[fallshirmjäger]

the kar 98 doesnt get the respect it should. it had way more knock down power than the M1 grand.

[Panzerknacker]

the kar 98 doesnt get the respect it should. it had way more knock down power than the M1 grand.


The kar 98 was agreat rifle, but compared with the semiautos is poor in firepower.

The Kar shoot a heavier bullet than the Garand but a slower muzzle velocity.

http://www2.noda-ya.com/sinseihin/4sin0401/kar98k.jpg

[Cuts]

the kar 98 doesnt get the respect it should. it had way more knock down power than the M1 grand.

'Knock down power' isn't a measurable quantity unless the distance actors fly backwards in the movies is one of the parameters.

The terminal ballistics of the main rifle carts used in WWII are so similar that the target would not be aware of any difference on impact.

[Panzerknacker]

The Walther PP, the first really safe double action pistol.

Kal 7.65mm.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/7615/ppmi9.jpg


And disarmed, only with pulling downwards the triggerguard.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/4273/ppdesarmdg0.jpg

[Man of Stoat]

FJ et al:

Handle and shoot the Kar98k alongside ANY Western-allied bolt action (excluding French designs pre-MAS36) and your opinions about it being "great" will be rapidly changed. It really is terribly terribly overrated and terribly terribly poor for such an advanced industrial nation as Germany.

[Panzerknacker]

In wich way ?

[Man of Stoat]

In just about every way.

The sights are appallingly coarse, and after three or four shots in rapidfire there is so much heat haze coming off the barrel that you can hardly see the target anyway; the bolt handle is too far forward, difficult to operate, slow to operate, with a very long throw which causes you to have to move your head; the recoil is unpleasant; the muzzle blast is huge and unpleasant; the magazine is too small; the action is very dirt sensitive; the striker cocks on opening which contributes to the slowness of operation and the dirt sensitivity; the trigger is bad; checking that the chamber is clear is difficult; the rifle doesn't point naturally; and in general the whole thing is clunky and unnatural to operate.

Will that do you?

[pdf27]

The terminal ballistics of the main rifle carts used in WWII are so similar that the target would not be aware of any difference on impact.
<Ironman>Holy freaking Guano, Batboy! You mean the M1 Carbine was as powerful as all the other rifles after all?</Ironman>

[Panzerknacker]

In just about every way.

The sights are appallingly coarse, and after three or four shots in rapidfire there is so much heat haze coming off the barrel that you can hardly see the target anyway; the bolt handle is too far forward, difficult to operate, slow to operate, with a very long throw which causes you to have to move your head; the recoil is unpleasant; the muzzle blast is huge and unpleasant; the magazine is too small; the action is very dirt sensitive; the striker cocks on opening which contributes to the slowness of operation and the dirt sensitivity; the trigger is bad; checking that the chamber is clear is difficult; the rifle doesn't point naturally; and in general the whole thing is clunky and unnatural to operate.

Will that do you?

Jesus, well I have to accept your opinion because Idont no particular with this rifle ...only with a M1909, but honestly it seems tood bad to be real....the only thing I fully agree is the recoil and muzzle blast wich are indeed quiet large.

[Cuts]

The terminal ballistics of the main rifle carts used in WWII are so similar that the target would not be aware of any difference on impact.

<Ironman>Holy freaking Guano, Batboy! You mean the M1 Carbine was as powerful as all the other rifles after all?</Ironman>


:D :D :D

Cheers for that Pdf !


(Although for the benefit of Tinwalt who while he reads this page is unable to comment, the pertinent phrase is "main rifle carts")

[Digger]

Hi guys,

The MG42, hands down for me. Cheap and easy to produce, great rate of fire, if not a bit inaccurate. A very welcome weapon when facing massed enemy infantry.

Regards to all,
Digger.

[Panzerknacker]

U.S army training film for the Mg-42.

http://www.germanwarmachine.com/videos/download/mg42.wmv

[Panzerknacker]

For those who still dont know how to handle and shoot the Karbine 98, well...you better learn from here:


http://www.germanwarmachine.com/videos/download/mauserrifle.wmv

[George Eller]

-

An interesting article on the Mauser 98 from The American Rifleman, July 1998 issue.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7351/mauser9801kz9.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2125/mauser9802ix8.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4775/mauser9803zn7.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3418/mauser9804su5.jpg

(CONTINUED BELOW)

-

[George Eller]

-

(CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1354/mauser9805xj3.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2048/mauser9806en9.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5986/mauser9807wl2.jpg

SEE ALSO:
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=83340&postcount=12

-

[VonWeyer]

For me it's the Mg42.
Rate of fire and adaptable for different uses.

Regards
VonWeyer

[Tiger-I]

Kar98K, hands down.
Proven, dependable, and less likely to break down.
Accurate. With a scope, can be used in sniper configuration.
Bayonet capable.
And can even be used as a club.
Did I say dependable?

Forgot to add; I'll be getting a semi-auto mg-34 from TNW within a few more weeks, so my mind might be changing soon on what the BEST is. I had to sell an 89 model Ford truck to be able to order it.hehe Did not really need the truck, but sure wanted the mg. I've got about a 6-month wait on it.

[Tiger-I]

Man Of Stoat,
your opinion on the Mauser is terribly misleading.
I have fired all U.S. Military bolt rifles, and most foreign models, and can, without being overly confident, declare that the Mauser K98, or the M-48 Yugoslavian model, is the best bolt-action military rifle in existance.
My choice in armed confrontation would be the mauser, and this, even pitted against the new assault rifles.
An enemy is not going to know if one bullet hit him, or one hundred bullets.
It is VERY accurate. The sights are fine. Scoped, the Mauser can be as lethal as a Dragunov, as was very well documented as late as in Bosnia/Serbia conflict.
The Mauser action is the base for Dangerous Game rifles, some models of which I own. This is for safety and dependability in feeding, during high-tension moments with dangerous game.
It very well may be, the most influential, and longest lasting modern rifle design of all time. The term "modern", speaking of the smokeless powder era.
The finest sporting gunmaker in the world, Holland@Holland of London, picked the Mauser action only, as the basis for their bolt rifles. This fact alone, is enough praise for me.

[VonWeyer]

Please let us see some pic's when you get that Mg34.

Regards

VonWeyer

[bas]

Forgot to add; I'll be getting a semi-auto mg-34 from TNW within a few more weeks, so my mind might be changing soon on what the BEST is.

Make sure you do some research on your new gun. I've read a number of posts where additional tweaking has been required to get these guns running smoothly. Still it'll be a blast to shoot, even in semi-auto!

[angform]

i must said the mauser 98

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

I'd have to go with the K98 Mauser. It had wonderful accuracy and great stopping power. As a sniper, I wouldn't think the muzzle velocity would matter much since you want to fire as least rounds as possible. Served me as a great rifle.

[Panzerknacker]

Good weapon indeed, and welcome by the way Wolfgang.

http://www.germanwarmachine.com/videos/mauserrifle.htm

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

Thankyou

[Man of Stoat]

If you have ever shot a Kar98k, you would have discovered that it is quite shockingly poor compared to many of its contemporaries.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

It had much better accuracy than the G43

[Flammpanzer]

the mp 44 or stgw. 44 because it was the forerunner for so many other assault rifles later. and the MG 42 because it was definitely the best infantry machine gun in WW2. I shot that weapon a lot during my time at the bundeswehr (german army), where it is names MG 3.

jens

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

Wasn't there a design towards the end end of the war called the MG45 or MG42V? I think it was the exact same model but had a higher rate of fire and was made of cheaper materials. I believe only a handfull went into the feild though.

[Panzerknacker]

Indeed the Mauser Stg-45 was a very compact design wich used a delayed roller-locking system, that was also adopted by the spanish CETME assault rifle in the 1950s and then by the german H&K G-3 7,62mm. only few were actually delivered.

StG-45

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5711/stg45jo3.jpg

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

That's very interessting. I wonder what the actual number of models that were made is.

[Panzerknacker]

According to this site just 30.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/sturmgewehre-R.htm



http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Bilder/Sturmgewehre/Mauser06H-1.jpg

[bas]

Indeed the Mauser Stg-45 was a very compact design wich used a delayed roller-locking system, that was also adopted by the spanish CETME assault rifle in the 1950s and then by the german H&K G-3 7,62mm. only few were actually delivered.

StG-45

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5711/stg45jo3.jpg

This photo is a photoshoped fake.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

How is it fake?

[bas]

How is it fake?

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=100111&highlight=stg45


The photo is actually of me. I 3D modeled an Stg-45 and composited it with Photoshop I posted it in here just to see if it would pass as a real photo.

Marcus or any of the other moderators: Please feel free to move this post to the appropriate forum.

Regards

brian

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=888740&sid=9da6465a1bd290ca0acad2ec619fb4c2#888740

[Panzerknacker]

Nice job, it works with me :rolleyes:

[bas]

It had much better accuracy than the G43

You're comparing apples with oranges. Do a side by side comparison with the Kar98k and the Enfield No4 MkI and you'll see that the No4 is a far superior rifle in almost every sense. The only thing that lets it down is the rimmed .303 round which with simple training is minor.

Having said that I'd rather have a G.43 out of the three rifles (and a MP.44 as my first preference). The difference in accuracy only matters when shooting at paper or in a sniper role past 400m.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

You're comparing apples with oranges. Do a side by side comparison with the Kar98k and the Enfield No4 MkI and you'll see that the No4 is a far superior rifle in almost every sense. The only thing that lets it down is the rimmed .303 round which with simple training is minor.

Having said that I'd rather have a G.43 out of the three rifles (and a MP.44 as my first preference). The difference in accuracy only matters when shooting at paper or in a sniper role past 400m.

That is why I prefered the K98 over the G43, I was a sniper that had to use his rifle over 400m.

[bas]

That is why I prefered the K98 over the G43, I was a sniper that had to use his rifle over 400m.

You were a sniper when and in which army?

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

1944-1945. Waffen-SS.

Normandy
Arnhem
Ardennes
Berlin

Just always remember, war is hell.

[Dani]

1944-1945. Waffen-SS.

Normandy
Arnhem
Ardennes
Berlin

Just always remember, war is hell.

Mate, it's time to shut up! 9th SS-Panzer-Division "Hohenstaufen" was sent in March 1945 to Hungary. The final act of WWII for "Hohenstaufen" came on April 26, 1945 when they were ordered to the Amstetten area where they received orders on May 1st, 1945 to move to Enns-Steyr-Amstetten area and without the use of force stop the American advance as not to endanger the negotiations that by now were going on between the German and Western Allies. After some negotiations this succeeded and on May 8th, 1945, the 9.SS-Panzer-Division "Hohenstaufen" marched into American captivity. So, no Berlin mate... Too pity for you. I'd like to know the commanders of Hohenstaufen and which corps belongs in 1945. Got me?

[bas]

I thought twice about the following post but considering Dani's comments above I thought I might as well throw my hat in the ring as well

1944-1945. Waffen-SS.

Normandy
Arnhem
Ardennes
Berlin

Just always remember, war is hell.

Mr Von Gottberg people take a dim view of people claiming to be veterins, in this
thread http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4223

you claim that the these photos are of you:
http://www.gunpics.net/images/wolfgang1.jpg
http://www.gunpics.net/images/wolfgang2.jpg

There are some inconsistences in these photos, first there is the mole on the upper
left lip which is missing in the colour photo. Then there is the shape of the lower
lip in the black and white photo (which maybe because the subject is biting their
lip). But most noticably there is the issue of your rank.

you claim: http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92553&postcount=20
but this is me in my last rank as a Sturmann:

while the shooter in the black and white photo has a rank of Unterscharführer or
Scharführer (Sergeant / Staff Sergeant) as is evident from the thick braid on his
shoulder straps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_the_Schutzstaffel
Did you get demoted to Sturmann (Corporal) in between the time those photo's were
taken?

Also there is the issue of you having served in Berlin. Accourding to you;
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92539&postcount=3
I served in the 9th SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen as a sniper

However, the 9th SS Panzer never fought in Berlin:
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1968

Area of operations
France (Feb 1943 - Mar 1944)
Eastern front, southern sector (Mar 1944 - Apr 1944)
France (Apr 1944 - Aug 1944)
Belgium & Netherlands (Aug 1944 - Oct 1944)
Western Germany (Oct 1944 - Dec 1944)
Ardennes (Dec 1944 - Jan 1945)
Western Germany (Jan 1945 - Feb 1945)
Hungary (Feb 1945 - Mar 1945)
Austria (Mar 1945 - May 1945)

and were in Austria when they surrendered to the Americans.

I do hope that Dani and myself are mistaken because no-one likes a fake.

[Dani]

you claim that the these photos are of you:
http://www.gunpics.net/images/wolfgang1.jpg
http://www.gunpics.net/images/wolfgang2.jpg

There are some inconsistences in these photos, first there is the mole on the upper
left lip which is missing in the colour photo. Then there is the shape of the lower
lip in the black and white photo (which maybe because the subject is biting their
lip).

Spotted bas!

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?p=92612#post92612

[Panzerknacker]

So busted :D

Wolfgang...may you like to impersonate SS veterans in other forum ?

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

Gentlemen, please read my urgent and dearest sincere apology and explanation. I know I have been a stupid lad, and I will consider myself lucky for not getting into deeper shit. But thankyou, please read it. It will be posted soon.

[GermanSoldier]

The Kar98k scoped because of the accuracy.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

I don't believe the scope really mattered on the accuracy of the rifle...

[bas]

I don't believe the scope really mattered on the accuracy of the rifle...

You're correct Wolf, a scope has no effect on the inherent accuracy of a rifle. All it does is assist the shooter to get a better sight picture.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

In fact it may possibly make the rifle heavier and not weighted as well. Almost like if you have a bayonet attached.

[bas]

In fact it may possibly make the rifle heavier and not weighted as well. Almost like if you have a bayonet attached.

I shoot better with the bayonet attached on my Kar98k. Acts as a barrel weight and keeps the muzzle steadier. Adding a scope doesn't make any noticable difference to the balance in my experience.

[Wolfgang Von Gottberg]

Alright thanks

I've only fired one w/o the bayonet or the scope. I like the kick, and it has pretty good accuracy! :D

[Man of Stoat]

The Kar98k is NOT accurate when compared to its contemporaries! It seems to have got this reputation from sporting and target rifles made from Mauser actions. The military stocking and sighting arrangement on it is dismal.

I have shot better groups at 100 yards with a mosin-nagant than at 50 m with the Mauser.

This evening, we will be seeing how accurately the SVT 40 will perform at 100 m.

[Cuts]

Man Of Stoat,
your opinion on the Mauser is terribly misleading.
I have fired all U.S. Military bolt rifles, and most foreign models,
Most foreign military bolt action rifles ? That's an awful lot of shooting, I'm awestruck.

and can, without being overly confident, declare that the Mauser K98, or the M-48 Yugoslavian model, is the best bolt-action military rifle in existance.
I can understand that you're not being overly confident about that declaration as it's absolute bollocks.

My choice in armed confrontation would be the mauser, and this, even pitted against the new assault rifles.
You obviously haven't a Scooby about 'armed confrontation' pal.
I wouldn't let you partner me or any of my lads in fire and movement.

An enemy is not going to know if one bullet hit him, or one hundred bullets.
It is VERY accurate.
Some K98s are accurate, but the run of the mill issue is nothing to write home about compared to other military rifle of the period.

The sights are fine.
If by 'fine' you mean average to dismal, then I'm 100% in agreement.

Scoped, the Mauser can be as lethal as a Dragunov, as was very well documented as late as in Bosnia/Serbia conflict.
A piece of two-by-four can be as lethal as an SVD. It is a silly statement.

The Mauser action is the base for Dangerous Game rifles, some models of which I own. This is for safety and dependability in feeding, during high-tension moments with dangerous game.
The action is used for dangerous game rifles because it is strong enough to handle the carts used for such beasts.
Many sniper rifles are built around the Mauser action, but the action alone does not make the wpn inherently accurate.
When one purchases a rifle for this sort of hunting the quality of the weapon is orders of magnitude higher than the majority of K98s, it's the bespoke smiths' attention to detail in polishing and choice of mag that makes feeding reliable.
Personally if I was going for Nyati I'd use a double ejector, but then that's just my choice. Oh, and that of numerous PHs.

It very well may be, the most influential, and longest lasting modern rifle design of all time. The term "modern", speaking of the smokeless powder era.
The finest sporting gunmaker in the world, Holland@Holland of London, picked the Mauser action only, as the basis for their bolt rifles. This fact alone, is enough praise for me.
It is definitely a damn good action, no doubt about it. I even own several rifles that use the action, but when it comes to 'armed confrontation' - ie someone shooting at me - the k98 wouldn't even make page one of the first choice list.

[cooke24]

Gentlemen, please read my urgent and dearest sincere apology and explanation. I know I have been a stupid lad, and I will consider myself lucky for not getting into deeper shit. But thankyou, please read it. It will be posted soon.

owned

[sniper18]

MP44 rocks hard!!!!!!

[bwing55543]

I'd say the STG-44, or MP-44 as some might say. It combines aspects of both rifles and SMGs, making it the world's first assault rifle. I can see why the Germans originally developed it for the Eastern front. Also, unlike the American BAR, it actually had a decent sized clip capacity (30 rds vs. 20). Finally, it was easier to control than the FG-42. I'm actually a little surprised the FGs had scopes but the STG did not. I know the STG was select-fire. In fact, by default, they were actually semi-auto.

[Drake]

I would share my vote between Mg42, widely considered as the best general purpose mg of the war and the StG44 the mother of all modern assault rifles.

[Croat]

kark 98 is the strongest one

[SS-Master]

MP40 was a light but good machine gun but there were better ones.
Luger is definatly a great handgun.
Kar98K was the best rifle of the second world war I believe.
I think MP44 was the best German machine gun, the only drawback of this gun was its heavyness I guess.
MG42 was ofcourse a great weapon too. .42, what do you expect.
Too bad it was easily overheated.

[Mustard Pie]

a well the stg44/Mp44 is my choice,
and i would liketo pont out that the luger by lokks is a great handgun but in other isseus such as security it was very bad the gun could go off by caring it in your pocket and the safety mechanisem was bad to