Stalin

[South African Military]

Hey, I need know information on Stalin and what he actually did to his people and country. I need to know good things he did and bad things. Try to find the most detailed sites, and It would be best if it is mostly in the WW2 period but his whole rigime would be the best. Tnx.

Your comments on the following sites.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/stalin_joseph.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/leningrad_betrayal_01.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/soviet_german_war_01.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwone/eastern_front_02.shtml

[RighteousDuncan]

http://www.faminegenocide.com/2003-competition/12-rewa.html

The fellow on that site wrote a paper on the genocide Stalin instilled on the people of the Ukraine. It looks to be pretty accurate and he includes a bibliography too, so you could probably check out some more resources. Hope that helped some.

[South African Military]

yes that has helped alot.

[South African Military]

Any more on Stalin?

[Komissar Ombrok]

Hmm... I know very much about Stalin, but all url's I can give you - only on russian language... Maybe if you'll ask direct questions, I can answer you...

[Gen. Sandworm]

Hmm... I know very much about Stalin, but all url's I can give you - only on russian language... Maybe if you'll ask direct questions, I can answer you...

Is it true when the war started that Stalin had a mental breakdown and refused to talk to anyone for days? Also what is your general opinion of Stalin?

[South African Military]

Hmm... I know very much about Stalin, but all url's I can give you - only on russian language... Maybe if you'll ask direct questions, I can answer you...

Is it true when the war started that Stalin had a mental breakdown and refused to talk to anyone for days? Also what is your general opinion of Stalin?

My general oppinion of Stalin, of what I have researched, is he is one of the most oppressive leaders in History. He has no regard for his people, only for himself and industrializing Russia.

[Gen. Sandworm]

Hmm... I know very much about Stalin, but all url's I can give you - only on russian language... Maybe if you'll ask direct questions, I can answer you...

Is it true when the war started that Stalin had a mental breakdown and refused to talk to anyone for days? Also what is your general opinion of Stalin?

My general oppinion of Stalin, of what I have researched, is he is one of the most oppressive leaders in History. He has no regard for his people, only for himself and industrializing Russia.

Thats pretty much the opinion of most Americans as well. But i am interested in know what the Russians today think of him.

Congrats on the Promotion S.A.M.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Stalin was a genius. Real genius. In reality, all Europe must build a gold statue of Hitler, because he destroy Stalins plans of liberations of Europe.
Yep. Stalin about six days was out of command. But not in the begin of war. 2 days he tried to get initiative in war. But all forces was in transit. In the first day on the landing site Soviet lost more then 4000 of planes... He understood - all his plans, and meaning of his life was lost... And he give the orders to defend and go to village to relax. In reality - Soviet Union loss the ww2. Only half of Europe was claimed. After war, Stalin reject the command of Victory Parade and said such phrase: "We loss and shited excelent war"...

[Gen. Sandworm]

There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity and I think Hitler and Stalin were both on that boarder.

[Komissar Ombrok]

No. Characters of Hitler and Stalin was different like white and black. I can recommend to you books of Robert Konkvest (Hope I right wrote the name) He wrote enough about personality of that leaders. And every compare - not in the Hitler....

[Gen. Sandworm]

No. Characters of Hitler and Stalin was different like white and black. I can recommend to you books of Robert Konkvest (Hope I right wrote the name) He wrote enough about personality of that leaders. And every compare - not in the Hitler....

Honestly I think they were both nuts. A different type of nuts but still crazy none the less. And congrats on your upcoming promotion to Sergeant Komissar Ombrok.

One more question..........ive heard that some people in Russia wish that things would go back to the way they were under Stalin. What do you think?

Oh and please post a link to that book in the Site Feedback - Book Forum if you can find it.

[South African Military]

No. Characters of Hitler and Stalin was different like white and black. I can recommend to you books of Robert Konkvest (Hope I right wrote the name) He wrote enough about personality of that leaders. And every compare - not in the Hitler....

Honestly I think they were both nuts. A different type of nuts but still crazy none the less. And congrats on your upcoming promotion to Sergeant Komissar Ombrok.

One more question..........ive heard that some people in Russia wish that things would go back to the way they were under Stalin. What do you think?

Oh and please post a link to that book in the Site Feedback - Book Forum if you can find it.

I find that hard to believe myself, I always thought that the people hated Stalin, every statue in Russia of Stalin has been torn down, exept the one in his hometown.

[HEINRICI]

Stalin was a genius. Real genius. In reality, all Europe must build a gold statue of Hitler, because he destroy Stalins plans of liberations of Europe.
He understood - all his plans, and meaning of his life was lost... And he give the orders to defend and go to village to relax. In reality - Soviet Union loss the ww2. Only half of Europe was claimed. After war, Stalin reject the command of Victory Parade and said such phrase: "We loss and shited excelent war"...

This brings up a whole new set of questions. Was Stalin kidding when he
constantly complained to the western Allies about starting a second front?
Why didn't he just take the lend-lease supplies and tell the Allies to concentrate on Africa and Italy? He must have known that the invasion of France was coming in the spring of '44. If he had held back his forces temporarily against Army Group Center in early '44, that would have allowed the Germans to transfer more forces to France, and maybe stop
Eisenhower's invasion. This would postpone another invasion for at least a year, giving Stalin time to launch Bagration while the Germans were celebrating. Zhukov, Konev, Rokossovsky, Chuikov, Eremenko and Malinovsky could have rolled through Europe in the next 18 months, and
be sipping wine in Paris by late '45.
Prehaps the reason was that his spies were keeping him informed about
the Bomb, and was worried about the American reaction to a Soviet-controlled Europe.

[Komissar Ombrok]

After unexpected attack of Hitler, Stalin lost more of professional army, and can't conquer Eurepe witout great losses. The second front - was a trap. First of many traps to initiate new, third WW. And the Korean war was a first step to it... But Stalin died... And Korean war was finished in 2 weeks after his death...

[South African Military]

I heard that Stalin executed or somehow killed his best Generals and Soldeirs at the beggining of war. Am I right? Or did I hear wrong from somewere.

[Dani]

Also I heard about this. It began in in mid 30s...

[South African Military]

Also I heard about this. It began in in mid 30s...

Would that possibly be link with the Great Purge, or was it just one of his minor purges?

[Komissar Ombrok]

The Great Purge of 1937. Yep. About 40.000 officers was arrested. More than 5000 was killed. But it's a lie that was a good commanders or useful officers. They even not have a war experience. In tha time - to be a member of army - was a fashion. And many communist leaders join army and make a self-promotion. Stalin can't afford this. And also many of arrested and killed (more than half) was members of NKVD Army. They not was a soldiers, but the inner police. In Stalin's plan, for more effective inner police work, the NKVD must be perodically purged. BTW, the German (by the dairy of Speer) agreed that Soviet have much better HQ command. And Hitler personally agreed, that he must make a purge in his HQ before war, to kill most of haulaiters...

[South African Military]

The Great Purge of 1937. Yep. About 40.000 officers was arrested. More than 5000 was killed. But it's a lie that was a good commanders or useful officers. They even not have a war experience. In tha time - to be a member of army - was a fashion. And many communist leaders join army and make a self-promotion. Stalin can't afford this. And also many of arrested and killed (more than half) was members of NKVD Army. They not was a soldiers, but the inner police. In Stalin's plan, for more effective inner police work, the NKVD must be perodically purged. BTW, the German (by the dairy of Speer) agreed that Soviet have much better HQ command. And Hitler personally agreed, that he must make a purge in his HQ before war, to kill most of haulaiters...

Well thats not exactly what I heard. They might of not been good generals or leaders, but they would of been better than the ones leading the Soviet Army in 1941-42. 200 fresh divisions where brought in to combat the German advance, they were poorly led, and they hardly made a dent.

[Komissar Ombrok]

No! This is a primary mistake! Soviet history tried to hide the agressive plans of the USSR and tell this story to whole world. But be mre pragmatic. 40.000 - that only small part of 200.000 officers in Red Army. More, young commanders with experience of Winter War was better than old communist with experience of only Civil war (and they undersimated power of tanks and planes, prefer cavalry :) ) The HQ of Red Army to 41 was pretty good. The disadvantage of Soviet - was an unpreparedness to defense war. For example, at the border with German in 1st day of war was burned about 20 tonns of topographic maps of Germany. But by dairy's of Soviet generals, they hav no maps for war.( defense war, of course) Without maps - artillery was unuseable. Coordination of army - awful. The tanks was not equipped with radio - that was economic turn, the tank was designed to attack in compact group. That was a like story about David and Goliaph, the strike in the perfect time and in the perfect place - and you make great damage for more strongly opponent. But power of Soviet Goliaph was incredible. Even wit very hard hit, he recovered and finished enemy...

[South African Military]

No! This is a primary mistake! Soviet history tried to hide the agressive plans of the USSR and tell this story to whole world. But be mre pragmatic. 40.000 - that only small part of 200.000 officers in Red Army. More, young commanders with experience of Winter War was better than old communist with experience of only Civil war (and they undersimated power of tanks and planes, prefer cavalry :) ) The HQ of Red Army to 41 was pretty good. The disadvantage of Soviet - was an unpreparedness to defense war. For example, at the border with German in 1st day of war was burned about 20 tonns of topographic maps of Germany. But by dairy's of Soviet generals, they hav no maps for war.( defense war, of course) Without maps - artillery was unuseable. Coordination of army - awful. The tanks was not equipped with radio - that was economic turn, the tank was designed to attack in compact group. That was a like story about David and Goliaph, the strike in the perfect time and in the perfect place - and you make great damage for more strongly opponent. But power of Soviet Goliaph was incredible. Even wit very hard hit, he recovered and finished enemy...

Well im getting my information from a creditable history book, and anyway Im not quite sure what you are saying but it was true that Soviet Goliath finally beet Germany, but in the beggining years they where unorganized and badly led.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Not badly led, but very auwful organized. But this desorganiztion wasn't normal state of Red Army. That was like a shock after unexpected hit. And many spoil of war was captured in first days of war, that provide Hitler with huge supply base. For example, a lots of captured 45mm and 76mm was sended to Africa. Hitler have them captured more than enough on the Eastern front. Another example - most dangerous opponent for Soviet troops was a tank group equipped with captured T-34 and KV. Another tanks wasn' dangerous for Red Army.

[Gen. Sandworm]

After unexpected attack of Hitler, Stalin lost more of professional army, and can't conquer Eurepe witout great losses. The second front - was a trap. First of many traps to initiate new, third WW. And the Korean war was a first step to it... But Stalin died... And Korean war was finished in 2 weeks after his death...

Stalin had plently of chances to start a war with the Allies but never did.........maybe this really wasnt his intention. Plus Kruchev (spl?) was a war monger and came close to starting a 3rd world war (not saying that America was innocent on this matter either) but didnt either. Maybe Krushev and Stalin were a bit more sensible than you think?????

[Komissar Ombrok]

Stalin wasn't prepared to make war with USA. But Chruschev in really wasn't war monger - he was only smoothtalker, joker. For example Stalin artifical increase the rate of Korean war. And none can stop it. Stalin made preparations for the ww3. But when he died - war was over soon.

[Gen. Sandworm]

Stalin wasn't prepared to make war with USA. But Chruschev in really wasn't war monger - he was only smoothtalker, joker. For example Stalin artifical increase the rate of Korean war. And none can stop it. Stalin made preparations for the ww3. But when he died - war was over soon.

Besides helping to prevent a total nuclear war........the best thing Chruschev ever did was bang his shoe on the table. That was funny. :lol: :lol:

[Komissar Ombrok]

Yep. :D Joker, as I said... Maybe you right about preventing a total nuclear war, but I don't think so. Ithat time hadn't enought warheads to erase life from Earth... Number of than was small and power too. Japan experiment of USA was hit Japan - small country. But SU and USA can take a hit of 10-20 nuclear bombs with such power, and recunstruct the industry after that... But before reconstruction, ground forces would set a winner in that war. Do not foret about biological weapons too. In case of total war, all conventions had no use...

[Gen. Sandworm]

Yep. :D Joker, as I said... Maybe you right about preventing a total nuclear war, but I don't think so. Ithat time hadn't enought warheads to erase life from Earth... Number of than was small and power too. Japan experiment of USA was hit Japan - small country. But SU and USA can take a hit of 10-20 nuclear bombs with such power, and recunstruct the industry after that... But before reconstruction, ground forces would set a winner in that war. Do not foret about biological weapons too. In case of total war, all conventions had no use...

Now on that we are in agreement :D

[Sturmtruppen]

wow!,I don`t know much about him,but,in the present,what russians think about stalin???.

He killed lots of camerades!,I don`t agree with that.

but is only my opinion,the good think he did was the attacks to germany.
:)

[Komissar Ombrok]

Yes. He killed the 'camrades" and save a Russia from big Evil. The leaders of the revolution was... Can't even find term... For example: Buharin in his book wrote "for the hardened of Soviet Power, we need to kill about 5% of the civil man in year in every region of SU" or Trotckiy: " all soviet people must be members of working camp. children must work from nine years. All women must be in public use." And all in such direction... Stalin provide to Russia "light and soft communism". We must be grateful for him...

[South African Military]

Ukraine was the hardest hit. In the Famine of Ukraine, 1/4 of Ukrainian pop died. 1/3 of Ukrainian children died. And most intellects died. The Ukrain still suffers from the effects today.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Yep. That's true, but don't forget - Ukraine was most great opportunity to communist in Civil War, and after end the Civil War, the Ukraine begin to guerilla war with communists. And all nation of Ukraine was helped the guerilleros. The Soviet Power can't just ignore them. And left them without food. For lesson. But tragedy "hero" of Ukraine was not Stalin, in that period he havn't enough power to rule SU himself. The power was divided between high ranked communist. The true killers of Ukrainian people were Tukhachevskiy and Jakir. They used poisoned gases to trap guerilleros...

[Sturmtruppen]

Yes. He killed the 'camrades" and save a Russia from big Evil. The leaders of the revolution was... Can't even find term... For example: Buharin in his book wrote "for the hardened of Soviet Power, we need to kill about 5% of the civil man in year in every region of SU" or Trotckiy: " all soviet people must be members of working camp. children must work from nine years. All women must be in public use." And all in such direction... Stalin provide to Russia "light and soft communism". We must be grateful for him...

why kill 5% of the civil man?,I think it wasn`t light or soft communism,it was more than heavy!,child work is another think in im not agree.
I don`t think killing camerades,was very utile,because the soldiers were enemies of the enemy and of the allieds!,so the morale wasn`t big for red army.
yes,he saved russia of the big evil,but the cost were much!.

Thanks for yout reply :) .

[Komissar Ombrok]

why kill 5% of the civil man?,I think it wasn`t light or soft communism,it was more than heavy!,child work is another think in im not agree.
I don`t think killing camerades,was very utile,because the soldiers were enemies of the enemy and of the allieds!,so the morale wasn`t big for red army.
yes,he saved russia of the big evil,but the cost were much!.

Thanks for yout reply :) .

5% of civilians - not Stalins idea. That's Buharin idea of "constant terror". And Stalin kill him for that. Most number of first communists was a boody maniacs, and Stalins purges main target - was clear them. About morale: when Stalins died, millions of people went to streets and cried. A lots of people selfmurdering. They thought the life is over without Stalin. Most of people loved Stalin wuth pure heart.

[South African Military]

Not Stalins idea but he let it pass.

[Komissar Ombrok]

No he decline it. The number of victims was minimal with Stalins regime. If the Trotckiy, Buharein, Kamenev or Zinoviev take a lead, the number of victims would be a lot more ...

[South African Military]

minimal, but you have to admit, still ALOT.

[Preatorian]

minimal, but you have to admit, still ALOT.
Is it matter of choise.
About 10 members of mine family, both from mother and father side was killed by Stalin/Jugashvilly regime bastards in 1933-1956. For me is it ENOUGH to hate any RED-ASS, without kind.

For somebody in Russia about 5 millions Ukrainians, died during 1933 by henocide - just neadfull victims, nothing criminal.

For somebody in Russia about 5-15 millions (nobody knows how much, archives closed and i guess never be opened) died in GULAG, SLON and other commy-versions of Dahau - just way to get country stronger.

For somebody a lot of Polish people, POWs, killed in Khatin - just way to lead politics.

Is it matter of personal choise - how to look at it. If man look at it as a good deal - is it good characteristic about himself, nothing more.
Whole Germany voited Hitler about 70 years ago and looks at nacism like at way to make country stronger and sucessfull. Whole Cambojia choised Communsm (or allow to other make a chiose, not matter) as a way to handle with problems.
And all, germas, russians, cambojians and another peoples, who put at shoulders he's monsters as presidents was sure in right choise.

Today Germany pay for all, they send money for all POWs, who was in Dahau, Buhenwald and etc., for all alive victims, who was harmed by Hitler. Not by good will, yes, but pay.

But in Russia nobody pay for peoples, who was put in hell without guilty, called GULAG, SLON and etc... no one sayd to Ucrainians - "Sorry, is it was a terrible mistace". Just way to make country stronger, minimal evil from possible.
If you ready to die in Siberia, or ready to eat humans (because no more to eat), or ready to lead your peoples to this situation - okay, i agree - is it just way to make country stronger. But i prefer to live in country, where goverment never put me without mine criminal guilty in snowy land to cut trees without warm clotches, foods and payment just because they decided - mine death will make this f**ed country a bit stronger. I no need such goverment and pretty damn can live good and happy without people-eating country.

[Komissar Ombrok]

I can unerstood ypu point, but can't agree with you. I also lost the relatives in Stalins regime, and also in the times of Brejnev, but... My grandmother went through GULag, for love with German officer, but she still loved Stalin until death. And now, I, my friends, many people as I know want to new leader to Russia with Stalins power. For the sake of our country, even we would killed or sended in Siberia. The Stalins regime was hard, but that losses in civilian more better than constant local conflict in Chechnya and band fightings. That events can't be with Stalin regime...

[Preatorian]

I can unerstood ypu point, but can't agree with you. I also lost the relatives in Stalins regime, and also in the times of Brejnev, but... My grandmother went through GULag, for love with German officer, but she still loved Stalin until death. And now, I, my friends, many people as I know want to new leader to Russia with Stalins power. For the sake of our country, even we would killed or sended in Siberia. The Stalins regime was hard, but that losses in civilian more better than constant local conflict in Chechnya and band fightings. That events can't be with Stalin regime...
So we got two different points of view. :wink:
Is it usual russian talk "Who guilty and what to do ?". I don't like start such talks.
Stalin power ? I may be wrong, but for my toughts Stalin's power (?) based at weaks of people. Just imagine - about 5 million (let's agree with this quantity, no need start debate about "how moch was killed", ok ?) of men, mostly with war expirience, one by one, night after night arrested, tortured then killed or sended to die. You sitting at home and wait - who will be next, may by you ?
In building, where i live now, in 1933 was only few non-abandoned appertaments - other was closed and sealed by NKVD. And people, who got luck survive first in 1930s and then survive in blocked Leningrad - as mine grandmother, for example - they just wait, who would be next...
"If in night you could heard sound of car's engine - is it meand only one - they go for somebody." - my grandma sayd.
Is it was strange power, at my look. Yes, a lot of people was full in love by Stalin. A lot of people was scared by Stalin. A lot of people was scared to death by Stalin, as well.
Need we now somebody, who will scare to death us tomorow ?
Not me.
But i belive - someday Russia got something like Stalin, or something like Hitler or so. And i hope - i'll be somewhere far away from Russia, because
i like be alive, is it just habbit. Better in country, where i can do my work, where my son can grow and where i no need more die "for goverment's sake". . And, if this new country someday went in war - yes, i will be in army with gun in my hand - because i'll be need to protect my wife and mine children. Not for "country sake", no. Just because this country good place to live there. Just because in this country never ex-criminal will be elected as President (or ex-spy, as well). Just because ex-spys never be masters of whole country. Just because in this country imposible to be ex-jail-guy and be an respectable man in one time...
Not goverment do such place - people make country good or bad, then they make a goverment.
Today we got Chechnya (i can talk a lot about it, 'cos i'm not an thetretic in this case), terrorism, criminal, corruption as goverment politic - and all agree with it, can't offer better to put new Stalin in Kremlin. Yeah, we will live as we like, as we live today. And new Stalin will: fix somehow all problems around, put all criminals in jails, kill all terrorist in johns, give a lot of money to all, etc...
Nobody like to fight with problems. We will electing criminals in Goverment, we will pay to road-policeman, we will give respect to russian kind of Mafia, we will shake hand to all ex-spy, worked today as "security officers"...
Nobody like to go in Chechnya and fight, nobody like go in police and fight with criminals (yes, is it sounds pretty childlish, but you you don't do something - who will ?). Nobody like at least shake all shit from lokal drug-dealer. We like live without problems. We need somebody, who will manage us, protect us and point to us what to do.
We just need good Master - and he will fix all. But where is this market, where we can buy a GOOD MASTER to us ?
Sad. We no need F. D. R or Adenauer or somebody of great Presidends... but we need dictator... Master, who will lead us to great future.
Without me, okay ? I no need Master. I fix all mine problems without master - and i not hawe any Master's problems and never will pay to he's ambitions.
Country - is it me, you, our frends, hoods - not any dictator, and in this country happens all, that we allow to happens, day by day. With our help or without. And if we not in barricades now - we argree with all happening around.
Sorry, but for my Country and Goverment (specially General-Secretary of President) are totally different words.

[Komissar Ombrok]

:) For me, this isn't point of man, who love his fatherland. Any county need a hard hand. If not, sooner or later the country become a place for unlimited criminals and fall into the hands of criminal dictature. That was in Russia in 1991, in Italy 1960, and in many countries in past. Democracy isn't bad for normal people, but not for criminals. Even Chichill said "Democracy is shit, but we havn't anything better". For me, I gladly and easy can sacrifice my life for the sake of my country and new strong leader.

[Preatorian]

:) For me, this isn't point of man, who love his fatherland. Any county need a hard hand. If not, sooner or later the country become a place for unlimited criminals and fall into the hands of criminal dictature. That was in Russia in 1991, in Italy 1960, and in many countries in past. Democracy isn't bad for normal people, but not for criminals. Even Chichill said "Democracy is shit, but we havn't anything better". For me, I gladly and easy can sacrifice my life for the sake of my country and new strong leader.

Okay, i see.

At start of 1930s USA was in bad enough position, with a lot of troubles in economic, with a lot of criminals and etc.
But 32th President of USA, Franklin Delano Roosevelt healed all problems. And F.D.R. maked changes in economic, politic and other sides of country's live, key-changes, that allows today's USA be an one of greatest countrys in World.
No reperessions. No millions cittizens killed in peace time by co-cittizens, nothing from this ugly things and tricks. I full of respection to man, who found a way to heal whole country without terror. It was a REALLY STRONG MAN, only strong man no need kill somebody to fix problems, only fulls tought that a good assasination will fix all around. Specially if you need kill 5-15 millions for sake of future.
If you meand "strong-arm-leader" such as F. D. Roosevelt - i agree. I will support this kind of leader by all that i can do.


By the way - where you served in Army ?

[Komissar Ombrok]

Hmm... Can't say anything bad about Roosvelt, for true, don' know much about him. Maybe he was good, maybe he even more clever. Terror may be open or hidden. If he did many things to heal country, he may used a hidden terror, like Russia now. No open repressions, no fear for civilians... But... some people died in time we are need :) I also like this type of terror more then open terror...

About army, I'm lieutenat of reserve, military medicine. Bio and antibio weapons. Systems of safety.

[Preatorian]

Hmm... Can't say anything bad about Roosvelt, for true, don' know much about him. Maybe he was good, maybe he even more clever. Terror may be open or hidden. If he did many things to heal country, he may used a hidden terror, like Russia now.
Yes, we can say that - he used some kind if hidden terror, if these words is applicable here. He changed economical model of USA, that model used by now with some changes. For example he maked some kind of goverment regulation of economic, maked a lot of social meanding changes etc. All he's activity also konw as Roosevelt's "New Coors"...
Maybe he was a dictator of some kind, but i guess - he was a crusaider more than dictator.
Antymonopoly's company as lead of economical coors (it caused a great result), social reforms, programm for compensations for farmers (famous programm, still worked pretty goo today) and a lots more...
He never do something like repressions, he never do something like terror - he was a tought, he was a strong, but no one was executed without real criminal guilty.
With F.D.R. started a famous "Manhattan Project" (russians got results of this project as final of very tricky spy's game and finall maked own A-Bomb), by the way...



No open repressions, no fear for civilians... But... some people died in time we are need :) I also like this type of terror more then open terror...

Is it just because we no need more slave's workpower.
If somebody died in right time - is meand somebody payed a lot for this happyness... But a lot of people, who at my look deserve jail-cell of execution, still alive and free.

About army, I'm lieutenat of reserve, military medicine. Bio and antibio weapons. Systems of safety.
My respect.
I'm ex-police detective, captain of MVD.
P.S.
Sorry, my emptions about Stalin... i can't look at Stalin as a some politian, like Napoleon, for example. I just hate communism in all kind of this idea and hate all commy's leaders.
When i tought about Stalin, i allways picture myself in GULAG as "enemy of people", never as somebody, who got something good from these times.
Maybe he done something really good for this country, i can't see it now...
People allways deserve they's goverment, i sure about it.

Just one example - Korea was a badly harmed during communistic kind to do politic. 80% of koreans was I.I.A, M.I.A. and K.I.A, 80% of whole people !!!
This war worth for USSR about 15 mlrd. of USD (is it was just 8 years after Big War, can you say - we don't hawe mery reasonable use for this money ?). This stupid war, ended by nothing but a lot of blood and sorrow.
Yes, we lost there about whole year budget and about 180 soldiers and officers. Chinesishe lost there about 1 000 000 people. Koreans was totally harmed.
And take a look at both Koreas now - wich Korea, South or North is good ?
As result of Stalin foreign politic (another extremally stupid step of Stalin, at my look) China got communistic way, got all soviet war-tecnologys, including jet-airplanes, missiles, weapons etc. Help to lead China in communistic way was worth to USSR another year's budget or more, who know... In finally we got great enemy from north of our borders. Thanksfully to nuke-weapons USSR-China war not happend in 1960s... but what we do with China now ?
Chinesishe "Norinco" company producing a lots of AK in all kinds and modifications, without any payment to us, no one cent we got from this great bussiness...
As result of stupid afterwar politic of Stalin we got "Cold War"... a hawe read a lot about this period and wondering - i can't see any reason to do there whole stupid steps in Europe to make all war-partners to enemyes ?
...
Good text about Rooosevelt's New Coorse
http://www.amstud.msu.ru/full_text/texts/conf3/1_yaz.htm

[Komissar Ombrok]

You told about Stalin like a communist, but... In reality, Stalin wasn't a communist. He didn't love communism ideas. I specially studied his personal history. Very interesting. Than more I learned, than more I e to liked him. Initually I also hate him like killer and slaughter, but I changed my mind very quickly. In the young Stalin wanted to be a priest, but the Grusian Spirit Seminary declined him, because he had a defective left arm. In that, not quiet times, he choose a way to might and power. He become a criminal. Initually at the street band, he quikly take a lead, and begin to make a money. The strike to the Tiflis bank - is an exellent example of his strategy planning. After that he join the communist fraction, but he didn't liked them, he saw in them only way to got might. The Lenin also didn't like Stalin. Lenin didn't gives him any might, like Kamenev and Trotskiy, but give him support work with problems of connections between communist top members. And that was mistake. With that, Stalin have a lot of information about alll members and theirs weak points. Before death, Lenin understood his mistake, and said to the communist - "Beware of Stalin! He have unlimited power!" But communist top members laughed on it. Officially - Stalin is nobody. Only Secretary of communist fraction. But Some years later, Stalin begin to purge the top communists. And they couln't do anything. And Stalin begin to return country from communism ideas to normal society. For example, in communist theory, all civilians must be subdued and enforced into "working army"(slaves army). The members of this "army" must be ALL civilians after 9 years old. Another "rule" of communism is women in public use. Also, the "evgenic rule" to kill all civilians in age more 50, and ill people.(for economic) You may find this "rules" in books of Lenin and Marks. The Stalin used "Extralight" type of communism, and wanted to clear communism in future. Communism was only an instrument to build monarchy-type society with Stalin as monarch.

About Korean war... That politic wasn't stupid if you want the new war. That was a very smart politic. But when Stalin died, noone can continue this type of politic... Chruschev was idiot and havn't enough nuts. All that he can - is hit the tribune with shoose. In real - I thought the Chruschev was real BAD genius of SU... He droped the country into the mud...

[Gen. Sandworm]

Question ......... Is Stalin's house still there? I know they made it into somekind of shrine or something during the Soviet era.

Second Question: I heard of this Russian movie where Stalin played himself or somebody that looked alot like him. But what was funny it showed Stalin flying to Berlin just as the Russians had taken it. Which I know he did not. Have you ever seen this movie? And did Stalin play himself?

[Komissar Ombrok]

Stalin house - yes. Really shrine.

But film... Hmm.. I don't even hear about such film. Maybe you can rememer the name of that movie?

[Gen. Sandworm]

Stalin house - yes. Really shrine.

But film... Hmm.. I don't even hear about such film. Maybe you can rememer the name of that movie?

Thats interesting that his house it still there.

No i watched this show on the History Channel and it had clips of the movies but the movie was in Russian so have no idea of the name. If i see it again ill try and find out.

[Komissar Ombrok]

I think this is an ordinary false facts or some type of misunderstanding... The Stalin didn't like to travel, and didn't play in movies. He havn't time for that. His workday was more than 18 hours.

[Gen. Sandworm]

I think this is an ordinary false facts or some type of misunderstanding... The Stalin didn't like to travel, and didn't play in movies. He havn't time for that. His workday was more than 18 hours.

Oh I know he didnt fly to Berlin just as the Russians took the city. Would be dangerous anyhow. But I think this was somekind of Soviet propaganda film.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Hm... If that was a propoganda, all russians must know it. That was a law :D. But I can't remember it from ordinary propaganda films... I thought that was some kind of mistake from western historians...

[Preatorian]

You told about Stalin like a communist, but... In reality, Stalin wasn't a communist. He didn't love communism ideas. I specially studied his personal history. Very interesting. Than more I learned, than more I e to liked him. Initually I also hate him like killer and slaughter, but I changed my mind very quickly. In the young Stalin wanted to be a priest, but the Grusian Spirit Seminary declined him, because he had a defective left arm. In that, not quiet times, he choose a way to might and power. He become a criminal. Initually at the street band, he quikly take a lead, and begin to make a money. The strike to the Tiflis bank - is an exellent example of his strategy planning. After that he join the communist fraction, but he didn't liked them, he saw in them only way to got might. The Lenin also didn't like Stalin. Lenin didn't gives him any might, like Kamenev and Trotskiy, but give him support work with problems of connections between communist top members. And that was mistake. With that, Stalin have a lot of information about alll members and theirs weak points. Before death, Lenin understood his mistake, and said to the communist - "Beware of Stalin! He have unlimited power!" But communist top members laughed on it. Officially - Stalin is nobody. Only Secretary of communist fraction. But Some years later, Stalin begin to purge the top communists. And they couln't do anything. And Stalin begin to return country from communism ideas to normal society. For example, in communist theory, all civilians must be subdued and enforced into "working army"(slaves army). The members of this "army" must be ALL civilians after 9 years old. Another "rule" of communism is women in public use. Also, the "evgenic rule" to kill all civilians in age more 50, and ill people.(for economic) You may find this "rules" in books of Lenin and Marks. The Stalin used "Extralight" type of communism, and wanted to clear communism in future. Communism was only an instrument to build monarchy-type society with Stalin as monarch.

Thanks for interesting point of view. I should find more books about Jugashvilly, i thought.
Yes, i agree - USSR got really "extralight" sort of communsm, Cambodjia got communism in excellent conditions - all dreams of Uliyanov/Lenin and other red maniacs coming true there...
It's amazing - what some peoples can do with other, terrible and amazing.
Btw, in some moments of history Hitler looks not so bad, as some communistic leaders.

About Korean war... That politic wasn't stupid if you want the new war. That was a very smart politic. But when Stalin died, noone can continue this type of politic... Chruschev was idiot and havn't enough nuts. All that he can - is hit the tribune with shoose. In real - I thought the Chruschev was real BAD genius of SU... He droped the country into the mud...
History of wars in Indo-China region is mine favorit readings last five years.
I can't agree with your point of view at Korean war as a way to prevent USSR from next war - oh, is it sounds like "burn out the stable to prevent horses from mosquitos". We turn all other world to our enemy in late 1940s, after Big War, yes, then we need something to do wit it. Agree.
We done great help to Mao in China to turn China in communistic way, yes, is it fact.
Then in company with Mao and Kim Ir Sen Stalin tought start war against South Korea. Mistake was in one - according Stalin's plan USA will never do help to South Korea, he really tought that way - is it was common idea of Mao, Stalin and Kim.
But USA send army in Korea and all things went wrong and bussiness go bad.
Yes, maybe it wasn't stupid as pissing on wall-plug, but wasn't wisdom enough, i guess. But is it mine homble opinion only.
USSR lost there in Korea a lot of money, got conflict with China, got, with own help powerfull enemmy in China face, went in great conflict with USA... and what a result ? Nothing, i can't see any reason in this war for USSR... Stalin don't scared about war with USA, by common idea of USSR politics this war will lead whole wolrd to communistic revolution and, quote: "If new wold war will start - better for us, if this war will start right now." (Stalin's words, 1949, some of speech, can't remember now, wich kind of). But common public propahanda at these times was "We don't need any war, now or in future".
Chruschev was an idiot, in excellent meand of this word, agree totally. Just monkey with nuke - bomb, silly and agressive. If i can, i will give to Chruschov medal "Most stupid politic in XX".

But at least of this discussion - we don't hawe any other politics, from 1905 when things really went wrong till today. There wasn't choise.
If Nokolay II was a bit tought, if Stolypin wasn't assasinated, if Russia won in conflict with Japan in 1905, if don't messed in WWI, if... but no "if" happend.
We got all what we got finally. Nothing happens from nowhere, all our problems grouwn up from past.

[Preatorian]

Oh I know he didnt fly to Berlin just as the Russians took the city. Would be dangerous anyhow. But I think this was somekind of Soviet propaganda film.
:lol:
Actually Stalin hate traveling and hate any air-traveling specially. I can't imagine Stalin in Berlin in april-may 1945... can't picture it.
Movie, where it become possible should be some kind of sci-fiction... as well as all sovietic propahanda.
Stalin wasn't hero, but he was a paranoid. Wich reason look at Berlin at end of the War ? It should be a exteremally dangerous adventure, dangerous and reasonless.
But let me guess... was one movie, sweet like sugar... "Fall of Berlin", 1949, director Chiaurelly. There was a scene, where Stalin, all in white greating soviet soldiers from airplane trape... Stalin's character was played by actor Michael Gelovany, usual "movie's Stalin".
"Fall of Berlin" never was a documental movie, and wasn't more true than movies with Omar Sharif as personal hero of WWII.
This movie shows Stalin like personal winner of WWII, all things looks like exactly he kick all nazis to death.
By legend - Stalin liked this "Fall of Berlin" movie very much.
One history related with this film and Stalin's time. One man, who was in Berlin in may 1945, Grigoriy Stepanenco, when hawe seen this movie, just sayd - "I never seen Stalin over there..." For these words he got 8 years of jail-camps. He got a medal of honor, as well as four highest USSR ordens for personal heroism in WWII... and got a 8 years for couple of words finally.
By the way, ruch with take Berlin worth to USSR people about 200 000 lives. Rush, because allies can take Berlin first. In offcial look at it 200 000 K.I.A. from USSR side was nescesary because "USSR would do not harm any civilians." We don't use bombers or heavy artillery to protect innocents ? Hmm... i not sure.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Hm.. About Chruschev we are in totaly agreement. :D Monkey, popcorn smoothtalker, e.t.c.

About Korean War. That was a war to initiate ww3, but Korean war, proofed to Stalin, that his bombers can't compared with jet fighters and nuclear strike to America can't be achieved in that period. That was a reason to delay of begin ww3. If the new leader of SU wasn't Chruschev, but good, strong leader like Molotov or Rokossovskiy, the war could began in 1956 year. And that would birth of total communistic world.

[Preatorian]

Hm.. About Chruschev we are in totaly agreement. :D Monkey, popcorn smoothtalker, e.t.c.
Yes, no doubts.

... And that would birth of total communistic world.

Or total nuclear poisoned world... Just remember 1950s USA cartoons about "What to do when commy rockets fall"... Is it terrible...
I can remember endless "Civilian deence" films by USSR TV in 1970s, endless and scarefull, these films learn what to do if WWIII will start. It caused whorsest nighmares in my childhood... Oh, i hate this times, me and mine parents wait for war, each time when sirens started sounds we tought - "So, we went in war..."
Coomies always scared me. That endless fight against whole world, fight without any reason... they was ready to become a frend to all assholes around a world in case if they would lead they's countries to communistic way. Not matter if in USSR was no foods, who care ? Assholes got all, weapons, tanks, airplanes, for free... Commies liked power as vampire need blood. If USSR don't maked such gifts for everione who asked - we will live today as United Arabian Emirates.
We will got whole World, but make deals to change our diamonds with Japan to pack-paper.
Where today our f**d frends such a Vietnam, Somalia, Siria or North Korea ? Who need these godforsaken "frends" ? Who need beggars as frends ?
I no need fight to whole world - i just need a visa in each country where i like to travel. :lol: :wink:
I no need great countries as USA and EU as enemies - i just need be a responsible cittizen of responsible country. For it no need fight with all around.

[Bluffcove]

How was it viewed in Russia when Stalin's daughter emigrated to the West?

This is of interest to me as I cannot remember any of the story but did read her Diaries, much to my Fathers amusment when i was about seven and was supposedly engrossed in them for an entire wet fortnight in the Lake District.

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

Hmm... I know very much about Stalin, but all url's I can give you - only on russian language... Maybe if you'll ask direct questions, I can answer you...

Is it true when the war started that Stalin had a mental breakdown and refused to talk to anyone for days? Also what is your general opinion of Stalin?

I'm not sure that he had a breakdown when the war started... I know that he did, in fact have one and yes, refused to talk to anyone for days, but alas, I have forgotten the reason. I'll look into it and edit this. And my oppinion of Stalin, the Russians adored Stalin, so for a country of that size to love their leader, he must have been pretty efficient at his job.

[Man of Stoat]

I'm not sure that he had a breakdown when the war started... I know that he did, in fact have one and yes, refused to talk to anyone for days, but alas, I have forgotten the reason. I'll look into it and edit this. And my oppinion of Stalin, the Russians adored Stalin, so for a country of that size to love their leader, he must have been pretty efficient at his job.

They loved him because they had been told to love him. He had 100% control of the media, and all the propaganda thus portrayed him in a glowing, positive light. Criticizing him even in private by telling a joke could get you arrested for "anti-soviet agitation", amongst other things. He was a terrible leader, always searching for the boogey man under the bed as a scapegoat for his failed policies - he destroyed the officer corps of the army because he saw them as threat (this is one reason why the German Army advanced so far & so fast with Barbarossa), and terrorised the population - almost everybody knew at least one close friend or relative who had been executed or was in GULAG for "political crimes". He was a micromanager, and his underlings were sh1t scared of him - falling foul of him for reasons real or imagined got you killed. There was only 1 person permitted independent thought in the USSR, and that was Stalin.

A glimpse into the Soviet Union at that time can be gleaned by reading Solzenistyn's The Gulag Archipelago

[Walther]

One thing to explain about Stalin's paranoia:

As a young man working against the Czar, he was betrayed by a good friend whom he trusted and ended up in Czarist jail. Ever since then he trusted nobody. He even had the boyfrienbd of his daughter executed.

Jan

[Man of Stoat]

One thing to explain about Stalin's paranoia:

As a young man working against the Czar, he was betrayed by a good friend whom he trusted and ended up in Czarist jail. Ever since then he trusted nobody. He even had the boyfrienbd of his daughter executed.

Jan

He was also (alledgedly, although it's pretty certain) on the books of the czarist secret police (the Okhrana) as well.

Oh, a great quote for you:

"Of course communism works - you just need the capitalists to pay for it and the fascists to enforce it" :twisted:

[Caliber]

i dislike stalin :D

[Commando Jordovski]

some People say Stalin was as worse as Hitler, killing the equal ammount of people.
The Russians loved Stalin, were they brainwashed?, scared of being sent away to the Siberian Ice Desert to die? or were they proud of their leader?

[Commando Jordovski]

[img=http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1346/stalinscccp2go.jpg] (http://www.imageshack.us)

[Man of Stoat]

Stalin killed many more than Hitler.

The russian people were victims of extremely effective propaganda and absolute State terror. Read The Gulag Archipelago for an insight into this.

And BTW, I find your rotating hammer & sickle quite offensive - as offensive as I'd find a rotating swastika.

[Commando Jordovski]

The 3d Hammer and Sickle is just my trade mark, there is no harm in having it there, besides a rotating swastika is a bit different and ended 60 years ago.
The hammer and sickle is still used in countries like, north Korea, China, Cuba and other south american countries.

So my friend, Man of Stoat, be on my side and stop this argueing ? :?: :idea:

[Dani]

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1346/stalinscccp2go.jpg

Edited for explanation: I "repaired" the Commando's post.

[Commando Jordovski]

Thank's Dani.

[Man of Stoat]

The 3d Hammer and Sickle is just my trade mark, there is no harm in having it there, besides a rotating swastika is a bit different and ended 60 years ago.
The hammer and sickle is still used in countries like, north Korea, China, Cuba and other south american countries.

So my friend, Man of Stoat, be on my side and stop this argueing ? :?: :idea:

Why's it any different? Eastern Europe was oppressed under that symbol for 40 years, and communists killed far more people than nazis.

In the European Parliament, some countries (FR & DE IIRC) asked to have the swastika banned outright, since they were oppressed under it till 1945. The new Eastern european countries turned around & said "only if you ban the hammer & sickle as well, cos we were oppressed under that for 40 years". The French then replied "but but but we have political parties who still use it". So the whole issue was dropped.

[Commando Jordovski]

I use the Hammer and Sickle for the sign of equality man of stoat.
God's wish for everyone to be equal on this evil earth we live on.

[Man of Stoat]

I use the Hammer and Sickle for the sign of equality man of stoat.
God's wish for everyone to be equal on this evil earth we live on.

It's not a sign of equality - it's the sign of the so-called "dictatorship of the proletariat". It represents the dominance of the workers (hammer) and peasants (sickle) over the "borgeoisie" (i.e. middle & upper classes). Only workers & peasants were equal - the professional classes were to be destroyed as a class.

If you actually do believe that it is a sign of equality, you have a warped view of 20th century history.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Now, I begin to write a book about Stalin. I want to name it "Stalin vs. communism?" I spend a lot of time to learn him, and with every new fact, I believe that stalin wasn't be communist, and hated communism doctrine. He fought against "righteos communists", but can't did it effectively, because his might was also based on communists doctrine.

[Hanz Lutz]

Stalin killed more own people before and after war,before war he killed many officers becouse he think's then they have conspiracy against him ,and 1941 he lost 500km of Russians teritory becouse in army been very little seargeants ,corporals..... also he don't want to lisening generals to build heavy region of bunkers and tranches in Poland becouse ,he trust in alliance with germans.

[Komissar Ombrok]

More of that you told now, nothing more than Chruschev propaganda maded after Stalin's death. Most victims from innocence people was in 1927-1933 years, when Stalin haven't enough might to stop it. In 1937 Stalin really killed a lot of officers, but did you tried to learn who was that? That was crime and blood maniacs. After killing them, the number of victims in people begin to fade fast. Very fast. Stalin purged army and goverment from "righteos communists", who want to eradicate a percents of civilians each year, to make Red power more harder. I recommend you to read dairy of Gebbels in 1944 - 1945. He envy Stalin and his purges! Stalin cleared army from political members, and ende war with exellent generals. Reasons of loosing in 1941 not in the lack of officers (purge was in 1937, early 1938, new officers with experience of Winter war and war in Poland was fully complected) The reasons was because Stalin prepred invasion himself. In first 3 days of war more 10 000 of planes was burned in landing sites, because all landing sites was near border (5-7 km) Maps! Artillery can't fight without topographic maps! But all maps was maded for invasion, and that was maps of germans territory! For invasion, all bridges was unmined. All defenses was desmantled. After Hitler's attack, the Stalin tried to regain strategic initiative, and sended army to counterattack. But was late...

[Man of Stoat]

What you say is totally the opposite to accepted opinion. Stalin didn't have the power to stop the purges? His signature was on the orders! This is well-documented and indisputable! Nothing major in Russia happened without Stalin's signature - he was the only one allowed to exercise independent thought!

What about all the other purges - there's far more than just the 27-33 years.

Go and acquire Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago & read all 3 volumes. Go & read Anne Applebaum's GULAG which contains much research based on recently opened archives.

Go read some websites on the purges as well:

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch20.htm
http://www.gendercide.org/case_stalin.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purges

Some serious academic stuff (Rummel):
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/welcome.html

& this google statement gives you more:

http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=ussr+purges&meta=

Some tables:

1923-28:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.TAB3.1.GIF
1928-35:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.TAB4.1.GIF
1936-38:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.TAB5.1.GIF
1939-Jun41
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.TAB6.1.GIF
Jun41-45:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.TAB7.1.GIF
45-53:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.TAB8.1.GIF

Stalin total estimate for democides (i.e. not including war) = 42,672,000 :shock:

[Komissar Ombrok]

This is all false numbers. Not full false, but changed. If you can read on russian language, you can read some of official archives and find many strange things. For example: ofiicial number of killed officers in 1937 is about 40 000. I begin to collect the names of killed. What the f**k? "Killed" marshal Rokossovskiy was in parade of V-Day. "Killed" marshal Timoshenko was exellent genius of WW2. After some days of researches, I find, that ALL high officers of SU was zombie. :) Strange, isn't it? Real number of killed officer was 10 351. But that wasn't battle officers. That was high politic ranks in army uniform. Also with genocide. Chruschev moved date of some repressions to made anti-Stalin propaganda. Number about 40. 000 000 isn't real. Victims was more 60 000 000, but more of them was maded by Serov, Chruschev, Tuhachevskiy, Buharin, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Trockiy and of course Lenin himself.

[Hanz Lutz]

There are no diffrent betwean hitler and stalin.

[Komissar Ombrok]

There are no diffrent betwean hitler and stalin.

In first look - not any difference. Both - dictators, both - socialists. But that a first look. In really, Stalin raise Hitler. Hitler was weapon for Stalin to weakness Europe. But Weapon was little defective ;) and turned agains Stalin. And ruined all his plans...

[Man of Stoat]

This is all false numbers. Not full false, but changed. If you can read on russian language, you can read some of official archives and find many strange things. For example: ofiicial number of killed officers in 1937 is about 40 000. I begin to collect the names of killed. What the f**k? "Killed" marshal Rokossovskiy was in parade of V-Day. "Killed" marshal Timoshenko was exellent genius of WW2. After some days of researches, I find, that ALL high officers of SU was zombie. :) Strange, isn't it? Real number of killed officer was 10 351. But that wasn't battle officers. That was high politic ranks in army uniform. Also with genocide. Chruschev moved date of some repressions to made anti-Stalin propaganda. Number about 40. 000 000 isn't real. Victims was more 60 000 000, but more of them was maded by Serov, Chruschev, Tuhachevskiy, Buharin, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Trockiy and of course Lenin himself.

So you added up the number from the official, open archives (i.e. massaged figures)??? Nowhere have I read that Timoshenko or Rokossovsky were killed - where do you get this from???

A lot of research has been done since the fall of the USSR on the closed archives, and lots more will be done in the future. And Rummel is a seriously well-researched academic.

I'm impressed that you're using the standard Communist arguing technique, though - start with the conclusion & denounce all sources to the contrary.

If you read carefully, the figure of 40M is just for Stalin and does not include Lenin or any of Stalin's successors - if you include them, then the number is closer to 60M.

[Komissar Ombrok]

So you added up the number from the official, open archives (i.e. massaged figures)??? Nowhere have I read that Timoshenko or Rokossovsky were killed - where do you get this from???

Open archives. The list of repressed officers. But repressed - don't mean killed. Rokossovskiy was arrested, and you may find it in large number of sources. But with Chruschev agitation they also counted like killed :)

A lot of research has been done since the fall of the USSR on the closed archives, and lots more will be done in the future. And Rummel is a seriously well-researched academic.

Don't forget - large numbers of document was falcificated. EVERY comunist leader, when got a might was purged archives and re-write history by himself. I can't trust western historian who use in theirs works such "documents"

I'm impressed that you're using the standard Communist arguing technique, though - start with the conclusion & denounce all sources to the contrary.
:shock: :D No comments

If you read carefully, the figure of 40M is just for Stalin and does not include Lenin or any of Stalin's successors - if you include them, then the number is closer to 60M.
Hmm... Officially - Stalin become an official leader of SU in the 1941. Maybe you shall count victims from that period? :)
No one can told the date when Stalin obtained full control of SU. By my researches - it's about 1930-35, but even when he got control, he need to purge all "heroes" of Civil war, who can made an opposition. And in this case, why we must hang to Stalin victims of Dybenko, Putna, Buharin?
Some years after Lenin's death is a fight for might in SU, but Stalin in that period even not candidate to new leader...

[Hanz Lutz]

After Lenin's death Stalin is nice and easy killed political enemies and retake all power and control in Soviet union.

[Komissar Ombrok]

After Lenin's death Stalin is nice and easy killed political enemies and retake all power and control in Soviet union.
Not easy. The fight was continued some years.
First, with Buharin, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Kirov and Tuhachevskiy Stalin sisabled the Trotskiy - first candidate to might.
After that, he begin step by step get might in his hand, WITHOUT any repressions, all repressions of that time - is crime of others leaders. And only to in 1927 Stalin begin open oppose to the old communist. But he do it very soft, beware that the others can unite and drop Stalin from his high...

[Hanz Lutz]

Ok you know better ,Lenin's warning all power men's in Russia becouse he know's how men is Stalin but enyone lisening him.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Ok you know better ,Lenin's warning all power men's in Russia becouse he know's how men is Stalin but enyone lisening him.

Yes. Lenin really left such letter after his death (by some sources it was falcificated two years by Nadejda Krupskaya, Lenin's wife ) But in that time no one can expect REALLY Stalins abilities...

[Hanz Lutz]

Yes Stalin's started war for political positions some years later .

[Man of Stoat]

Yes Stalin's started war for political positions some years later .

If you mean against Germany, you're wrong - other, later wars I don't know. I'm not aware of any war between 1945 and 1953 (feel free to correct me though).

The USSR did, however, twice attack Finland in 1939 ("winter war") and 1941 ("continuation war").

[Hanz Lutz]

I think he fight with political enemies ,I mean that war ,becouse meny people who been against Stalin's died.

[Hanz Lutz]

At the Party Conference in April, 1922, Vladimir Lenin suggested that a new post of General Secretary should be created. Lenin's choice for the post was Stalin, who in the past had always loyally supported his policies. Stalin's main opponents for the future leadership of the party failed to see the importance of this position and actually supported his nomination. They initially saw the post of General Secretary as being no more than "Lenin's mouthpiece".

Soon after Stalin's appointment as General Secretary, Lenin went into hospital to have a bullet removed from his body that had been there since Kaplan's assassination attempt. It was hoped that this operation would restore his health. This was not to be; soon afterwards, a blood vessel broke in Lenin's brain. This left him paralyzed all down his right side and for a time he was unable to speak. As "Lenin's mouthpiece", Stalin had suddenly become extremely important.

While Vladimir Lenin was immobilized, Stalin made full use of his powers as General Secretary. At the Party Congress he had been granted permission to expel "unsatisfactory" party members. This enabled Stalin to remove thousands of supporters of Leon Trotsky, his main rival for the leadership of the party. As General Secretary, Stalin also had the power to appoint and sack people from important positions in the government. The new holders of these posts were fully aware that they owed their promotion to Stalin. They also knew that if their behaviour did not please Stalin they would be replaced.

Surrounded by his supporters, Stalin's confidence began to grow. In October, 1922, he disagreed with Lenin over the issue of foreign trade. When the matter was discussed at Central Committee, Stalin's rather Lenin's policy was accepted. Lenin began to fear that Stalin was taking over the leadership of the party. Lenin wrote to Leon Trotsky asking for his support. Trotsky agreed and at the next meeting of the Central Committee the decision on foreign trade was reversed. Lenin, who was too ill to attend, wrote to Trotsky congratulating him on his success and suggesting that in future they should work together against Stalin.

Stalin, whose wife Nadya Alliluyeva worked in Lenin's private office, soon discovered the contents of the letter sent to Leon Trotsky. Stalin was furious as he realized that if Lenin and Trotsky worked together against him, his political career would be at an end. In a fit of temper Stalin made an abusive phone-call to Lenin's wife, Nadezhda Krupskaya, accusing her of endangering Lenin's life by allowing him to write letters when he was so ill.

After Krupskaya told her husband of the phone-call, Vladimir Lenin made the decision that Stalin was not the man to replace him as the leader of the party. Lenin knew he was close to death so he dictated to his secretary a letter that he wanted to serve as his last "will and testament". The document was comprised of his thoughts on the senior members of the party leadership.

Lenin became increasing concerned about Stalin's character and wrote a testament in which he suggested that he be removed. "Comrade Stalin, having become General Secretary, has concentrated enormous power in his hands: and I am not sure that he always knows how to use that power with sufficient caution. I therefore propose to our comrades to consider a means of removing Stalin from this post and appointing someone else who differs from Stalin in one weighty respect: being more tolerant, more loyal, more polite, more considerate of his comrades."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSstalin.htm

[Komissar Ombrok]

Very good link, but unfortunatly, a lack of date for many situations. Infinity problem of al soviet history :)

[Hanz Lutz]

Yes good link .

[tobias]

I have a question about Stalin...
Where is he burried?

[Man of Stoat]

I have a question about Stalin...
Where is he burried?

Not deep enough, both metaphorically and physically.

[Firefly]

Try this mate.

http://history1900s.about.com/od/worldleaders/a/stalinembalm_2.htm

Tales of the great man himself...

[Cuts]

I have a question about Stalin...
Where is he burried?

Not deep enough, both metaphorically and physically.

Or soon enough.

[Firefly]

I have always wondered a few things about Stalin.

If there was no Stalin, would the Germans have won Barbarossa?

If there was no Stalin, would there have been a Barbarossa?

If the Germans hadnt sent Lenin to Russia, would there have been a Stalin at all or a Communist Soviet Union?