Stalingrad questions

[FW-190 Pilot]

Is that true when the germans surround Stalingrad, the russians inside wants to surrender, but then stalin said if anyone surrenders or something, they will be dead soon if captured back agian?
is that true that stalin threaten his troops like that to protect soviet?

[South African Military]

Im sure that was what happened, I deffinetely know that if any Russian troops surrendered and got caught, they would be killed. Also if any Russian troops retreated, they will be shot by their own men.

Joseph stalin said "In the Soviet army it takes more courage to retreat than advance"

[Russischer Fritz]

You think, what it is possible to force people so desperately to battle one order? No! In it{this} an essence of Russian character. We are very difficult for breaking psychologically. Yes it is the truth that there were " protecting armies " which shot on receded. The city of Stalingrad was a symbol of authority of Stalin. Simple soldiers understood it also. To lose Stalingrad meant to lose the country. Therefore Russian soldiers fought to death for each floor in the house.
P.S. Therefore we never would leave Stalingrad without fight!
Probably it only beautifully sounds, but it is the truth! We very kind until strongly to not anger us :). Here then to any will not seem a little! In history there are many examples on this theme. ;)

[Cactus]

They had many Russians to combat German soldiers hence their high losses after the war, but even if a soldier wanted to retreat or surrender they'd be shot. If I was there back then I would figure hell if I retreat I am shot might as well shoot it out have a better chance that way.

[Gen. Sandworm]

Honetly I dont see why Hitler wanted this place so bad. I know it bears the name Stalin but just coz its named after the leader of the country doesnt make it stragically important.

When the German 6th Army was finally surrounded by the Russians......Hitler still did not want to let go of Stalingrad. Which by this point was a city of rubble and held little or no value. Even when Von Manstein counter-attack came with in 30 miles of the city Hiter (aka RETARD) wouldnt let the 6th army attempt a break out. So the way I see it he condemed 200,000 of his own people to die. Moron.

But hey this worked out well for the Russians. Good thing too.

[Russischer Fritz]

Stalingrad carried Stalin's name. It was more important, than presence in it of various factories and the enterprises.
Though factories there too was much.
Why Stalingrad the greater preference rather than was given Leningrad? A question for reflection.

[Gen. Sandworm]

Stalingrad carried Stalin's name. It was more important, than presence in it of various factories and the enterprises.
Though factories there too was much.
Why Stalingrad the greater preference rather than was given Leningrad? A question for reflection.

Excellent question!!! I dont understand why the Germans didnt launch a full scale assault on Leningrad either. They surrounded the city but didnt really launch an offensive against it. Plus Lenin (in my opinion) did as much for the USSR as Stalin did.

Dont know why that is?????

[Russischer Fritz]

Once again I shall repeat :). To grasp the city of Stalingrad meant to break our fighting spirit. At that time people fanatically trusted leader Joseph Stalin. When Russian soldiers ran in attack they shouted: " for Stalin!!! For the native land!! ". On the first place always there was Stalin. He was the inspirer of Russian people to a victory. In the USSR at that time Stalin = Lenin. Knowingly there is that fact, that after a victory under Stalingrad, the USSR has completely adopted the initiative in war. ;)

[FW-190 Pilot]

actually i think invading russia is pretty stupid idea, they should concentrade on invading england first before even think of attacking russia

[South African Military]

Hitler was a pathetic general, he made so many mistakes throughout the war that cost him that battle, and it cost him the lives of the German army. They shouldve left Russia alone, they shouldve kept the peace treaty. I think the Germans would have a much better chance in defending Germany against the Russians, instead of invading it. But it was a good thing that Hitler made these stupid mistakes.

I also heard that Hitler hated Communists, im I right?

[Russischer Fritz]

I also heard that Hitler hated Communists, im I right?

It was the basic idea which Hitler drumed into heads German the soldier. When Germans went to attack they first of all saw the enemy not the Russian person, and a bolshevik - the communist.
Again I advise you to read through the stunned book:

http://ambaby.com.ru/good_1574882864/The-Forgotten-Soldier.html

[Gen. Sandworm]

That book looks really good Russian Fritz. I will have to get it.

Do you know any good sites about Stalingrad with some good pictures?

[Dani]

Do you know any good sites about Stalingrad with some good pictures?
Check this: http://battle.volgadmin.ru/osn_eng.asp?np=22-4

[South African Military]

Do you know any good sites about Stalingrad with some good pictures?
Check this: http://battle.volgadmin.ru/osn_eng.asp?np=22-4
GREAT SITE!! LOADS OF INFO AND GREAT PICS! THANKS DANI!

[Dani]

You're welcome!! :D

Also check: http://www.stalingrad.com.ru/history/history.htm

[FW-190 Pilot]

I also heard that Hitler hated Communists, im I right?
yes, the Germans even kill those russians who oppose Stalin (i read it from a world war 2 book)

[FW-190 Pilot]

an extremely short animate video of stalingrad
http://files.filefront.com/christmas_in_stalingrad/;1096347;;/fileinfo.html

[South African Military]

mmm, I dont have windows media player, and VLC cant read the file.

[FW-190 Pilot]

mmm, I dont have windows media player, and VLC cant read the file.
really? i have realplayer, window media player, VLC, neroshow time, and they can all play the video??

[South African Military]

A quote from a German soldeir fighting in Stalingrad.

"Imagine Stalingrad eighty days and nights of hand-to-hand fighting. The streets are no longer measured in meters, but in corpses. Stalingrad is no longer a town. By day it is an enormous cloud of burning blinding smoke. It is a vast furnace lit by reflection of the flames."

[Barbarian from east]

:lol:
People what I've read here forces me put down some words about Stalingrad buttle.

Stalin was a dictator but not a fool! Destroying his own army only for his name is a nonsense!!!

The fascist army was striving to kavkaz oilfields. The kavkaz oilfields were the main source of oil for Soviet Union at that time and loosing them meant to loose the army, lose the war, lose all.
Hitler knew that, all knew that.
The Staligrad stood between german army and oilfields that was the reason for such hard battle.

The May 9 is near! We won!

Good luck.

[Gen. Sandworm]

:lol:
People what I've read here forces me put down some words about Stalingrad buttle.

Stalin was a dictator but not a fool! Destroying his own army only for his name is a nonsense!!!

The fascist army was striving to kavkaz oilfields. The kavkaz oilfields were the main source of oil for Soviet Union at that time and loosing them meant to loose the army, lose the war, lose all.
Hitler knew that, all knew that.
The Staligrad stood between german army and oilfields that was the reason for such hard battle.

The May 9 is near! We won!

Good luck.

Welcome to the site. Doenitz surrendered to the Allies on May 8th. Or do you celebrate the day after??? But anyhow ........ yea we won. Thank god or we would all be speaking German at the moment. LOL

[Komissar Ombrok]

In real, the whole Europe must build a gold statue to Hitler, in other case, all world would speak russian now :D

[Dani]

In real, the whole Europe must build a gold statue to Hitler, in other case, all world would speak russian now :D

Quite true, Komissar, quite true... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Barbarian from east]

In real, the whole Europe must build a gold statue to Hitler, in other case, all world would speak russian now :D

I don't think so. I can't belive to researches like that.

[Dani]

In real, the whole Europe must build a gold statue to Hitler, in other case, all world would speak russian now :D

I don't think so. I can't belive to researches like that.

Barbarian, I'm from Romania and I want to tell you that I was forced to learn in school Russian and English.

Russian because Soviet Union was for us "Big Brother from East" (I almost forgot Russian - I remeber only some words and I know to read in Cyrillic).
English because Ceausescu wants that Romania became "Independant Communist Country".

If Communism wouldn't fall all around Eastern Europe and Soviet Union, I bet that today I would speak Russian...

On the other hand Komissar Ombrok said that without WW2 with Soviet Union, UK and USA acting as allies,
whole Europe (not only Eastern Europe) would fall in Soviet's hand.

Edited: Remeber the differences between Greece and Romania!!! I think that in Yalta (as I remember) the Europe was splitted between SU and free world.
For Greece: 90% Allies interests; 10% Soviet Union interests;
For Romania: 90% Soviet interests; 10% Allies interests;
Moreover Greek communists started an "insurection". British Empire sent instantly an Expeditionary Force without any single reply from Stalin.

[Barbarian from east]

Dani, I was forced to learn english in scool, furthermore I was forced to go to scool also. :twisted:

:P

How could they do it with me? :evil:

What can I say to you brother. It's easier to find a guilty one than fight a better life.

May be I've got you wrong but for me it doesn't make sense to look back for the future.

[Sturmtruppen]

Dani, I was forced to learn english in scool, furthermore I was forced to go to scool also. :twisted:


lol,mee too :lol: ,(exceot 4 english)

edit:wrong quote

[Gen. JoshM]

Excellent question!!! I dont understand why the Germans didnt launch a full scale assault on Leningrad either. They surrounded the city but didnt really launch an offensive against it. Plus Lenin (in my opinion) did as much for the USSR as Stalin did.

Dont know why that is?????[/quote]

It wasnt all about propoganda. The German assault on the south was characterized by moterized units advancing miles a day, (unlike the central and North which was inching forward at this point. Mostly because the Russia's valued Moscow more than anywhere else.) Anyways, it was important for the German's to capture Stalingrad. If Stalingrad would to be taken, they would cut off the Caucus Oilfields (basically their major oilfield) and as we all know, oil is extremely essential. With Stalingrad taken, they would not have to worry about many armored units (seeing they would need to conserve their fuel for more important things such as planes and factory work). That would mean one of the vital factors in the turning of the Red Army Tide, the T-34, would not have been in mass numbers in time to stop the German onslaught. Leningrad was just a diversion to distract major Russian positions in the North, giving them room to place more men from the South that were before in intense fighting along the Central during the counter-offensive in Moscow. Plus, Hitler and his generals thought Stalingrad could be taken within days, as German intelligence did not pick up major troop concentration. But I still am baffled why Hitler halted Manstein's breakout army...

[Commando Jordovski]

That must of been some battle in Stalingrad for all those men, expecially when the Soviet generals and staff forced millions of men to go to their death with one out of two with a mosan nagant rifle.
over half of the Russians picked up mp44's from dead germans and used that weapon of choice instead of the highly inaccurate Soviet made PPSH
Do any of you think there will be another War for a city in the future similar to Stalingrad but more technilogical advanced warfare?

[Commando Jordovski]

Excellent question!!! I dont understand why the Germans didnt launch a full scale assault on Leningrad either. They surrounded the city but didnt really launch an offensive against it. Plus Lenin (in my opinion) did as much for the USSR as Stalin did.

Dont know why that is?????

That question can be answered how ever JoshM, Hitler and Stalin did have a strong sturdy relationship before the war and during 1939-1941 but hitler was not only jealous of joseph stalins power and communications between the allies and the russians, Hitler thought stalin has betrayed him and wanted payback, hitler knew he couldnt win fighting the U.S.S.R and the U.S.A at the same time but he knew if he attacked Stalingrad the city bearing the name of the leader it will lower the morale of the soviet union, even though it will only be a pin prick to the army it will be right through the heart of the soviet union.
Though Hitler suceeded in killing 30 million russians in the Second World War.

[Firefly]

A few things to straighten out here.

1. The misconception that Hitler and Stalin ever got along seems to be prevalent here. If you read Mein Kampf - it was always Hitlers intention to attack the Soviet Union. Communism was an anathema to the Nazis.

2. Stalingrad was never initially the main target for the summer offensive in 1942, it was the Causcus (Sp). However Stalingrad was strategic in the sense that whoever controlled it, controlled the surrounding area. Another thing to remember is that after the battles of 1941, Hitler and his generals thought that the Soviets had been bled white and that a protracted battle at Stalingrad would finish them off. The soviets kept this illusion going by only feeding limited units into the fight.

3. When the the encirclement was unleased, initially the Germans thought they could contain it and didnt attempt a break-out. By the time they knew, the 6th Army was in no state to attempt a break-out and was more valuable to the Germans as a delay on the next Soviet move.

Hitlers folly was to try and command his forces and believe that he was the only one who could decide what to do. The times when he didnt were much more successfull for the Germans.

[Commando Jordovski]

Hitler was a fool to attack the two most powerful countries at the same time,
he was familiar with his power but got to carried away with the whole war.
Soon enough he didn't like waiting and thought the german army was inevitably invincible, which of course was proposterous.
If the fuhrer had bided his time he could of dominated the world stategically.

Do you not agree Firefly?

IF hitler had reached south africa he would of also slaughtered all of the blacks, which would be a massacre of millions!

[Firefly]

Hitler was a fool to attack the two most powerful countries at the same time,
he was familiar with his power but got to carried away with the whole war.
Soon enough he didn't like waiting and thought the german army was inevitably invincible, which of course was proposterous.
If the fuhrer had bided his time he could of dominated the world stategically.

Do you not agree Firefly?



Yes and no. If he had bided his time, other nations would have re-armed also. It is very difficult for a central european country to strategically dominate the world. The Royal Navy would always have been stronger than the german one and without sea-power where could Germany go except east. The nazis had 1 chance only to take out the Soviets in 1941 and they blew it. Never again could they field enough strength to dominate the battlefield in that way. His biggest folly was to believe that taking the Ukraine and resources there was more important than Moscow, a transport and control node.

[StalingradK]

I just think they were trying to get to the oil fields so they don't have to run such a long supply line, excuse me if I am incorrect, but along the way Hitler probably figured, hey... why not just take the symbolic representation of the Soviets' Leader Stalin.

[Commando Jordovski]

Well it would lower the Russians morale knowing that german fascists have taken control of a major city.

[Hanz Lutz]

I think to germans dont need to attack moscow they ,can made front some hundreds km ,of moscow not 35 km,and they first should attack stalingrad and kavkaz ,becouse they can use oil fields and meybe attack north africa from east and west ,thats my opinion .

[StalingradK]

They already took over some Major cities, anyways if the Nazis thought that way, they would have a full-out attack on Leningrad. I know if I was at war and a Major city like Boston was taken over, I wouldn't give a damn... Well maybe a little, because I like in the same state :lol:

[Hosenfield]

the reason that hitler didn't finish off britain before attacking russia is that both stalin and hitler knew that war was coming.
stalin was desperately trying to mobilize his troops and industry.
taking britain would be a fairly long, all out attempt by the germans.
by the time brtain is finished, the russians would have already full mobilized and become even more difficult to defeat.

fortuneatly, the stupid mistake of stalingrad was made, which bought the russians 6 months to recover and build the operation uranus armies.

hitler and his staff believed that they had to attack soon when russia was weakest and cause political collaspe. "kick in the door, and the whole rotton structure crashes down"

[StalingradK]

Taking Britain? I don't think Germany could have done it, well if they did, it would take too many causualties and waste too many resources.

[Hosenfield]

i don't think so. the british army was weak compared to the german army. they just experienced dunkirk, and lost a lot of equipment. their troops and tanks were overall inferior in quantity and quality compared to german panzer divisions. the british were also inferior in ground forces doctrine in 1940. the enlgish weren't fully mobilized.

the main threats were the RAF and the royal navy. but in 1940, u-boat wolf-packs were quite strong in the atlantic. while german medium bombers suffered during the battle of britain, the luftwaffe was far from being dominated. b of b was called off because if the losses sustained over england was continued, operation barborossa would've suffered.

by any means, the conquest of britain would be much less audacious then conquering the soviet union.

[StalingradK]

Yes but the RAF could easily bust up tanks, spot U-Boats for the Royal Navy to take out and with the Royal Navy patrolling the English Channel, Germany probably wouldn't have a chance. You don't just need ground forces to take out other ground forces :?

[Hosenfield]

Yes but the RAF could easily bust up tanks, spot U-Boats for the Royal Navy to take out and with the Royal Navy patrolling the English Channel, Germany probably wouldn't have a chance. You don't just need ground forces to take out other ground forces :?


RAF bust up tanks????? in 1940!!

Even in the event of complete air supremacy, and new ground-attack aircraft in 1944 during the normandy battles, out of the 1400 german tanks lost, little more than 100 were lost through air attack from both the USAF and the RAF. in comparison, 1800 allied fighter-bombers were lost to mostly anti-air defenses.

IE, even in the great armor battle of kursk, 5.7% of german tank losses were confirmed by soviet ground attack aircraft. (glantz, battle of kursk)

any losses of german tanks once they reached the mainland would be very,very minimal, especially considering the archment of spitfires back then.

your assuming that the RAF has total air supremacy when it didn't have it in 1940. britain stood alone, remember? the german airforce was much larger and had higher quality (read:only fighter) pilots back then.
also, germany's medium bomber force was the strongest tactical bombing force in the world-

the royal navy would be attacked constantly by hordes of stukas, heinkels, etc., plus the u-boat fleet with mr.bismarck.

remember, the battle of britain was won mainly because of radar and the stupid moves by goering to attack british installations deep inside britain without fighter escort. (and limited range)
also, heavy german bomber losses from ack acks during the blitz, which was a foolish waste of bombers and crews.
british fighters waited until the 109s left the bombers and then attacked the defenseless heinkels.
in the event of sea lion, german airpower would be much heavily concentrated in the invasion zone and would not be dispersed like that.

[BDL]

the royal navy would be attacked constantly by hordes of stukas, heinkels, etc., plus the u-boat fleet with mr.bismarck.

remember, the battle of britain was won mainly because of radar and the stupid moves by goering to attack british installations deep inside britain without fighter escort. (and limited range)
also, heavy german bomber losses from ack acks during the blitz, which was a foolish waste of bombers and crews.
british fighters waited until the 109s left the bombers and then attacked the defenseless heinkels.
in the event of sea lion, german airpower would be much heavily concentrated in the invasion zone and would not be dispersed like that.

The Bismark wasn't launched until after the Battle of Britain period, and only one major unit has ever been sank by submarines while under their own power - the Belgrano in the Falklands war. The Luftwaffe didn't have a bomb that could penetrate the deck armour of the British heavy ships.

[Commando Jordovski]

By the time the germans had attacked Stalingrad and other points of Russia there for forces weren't significant enough, and the russians using scorched earth didn't help either.
The germans did attack some places that were heavly defended that wasn't neccasary.
My opinion is that they should of found a straight way to get to Moscow (мосва) and take the heart of Russia, but even though that would of been quite a near impossible struggle.

[Man of Stoat]

By the time the germans had attacked Stalingrad and other points of Russia there for forces weren't significant enough, and the russians using scorched earth didn't help either.
The germans did attack some places that were heavly defended that wasn't neccasary.
My opinion is that they should of found a straight way to get to Moscow (мосва) and take the heart of Russia, but even though that would of been quite a near impossible struggle.

They DID go straight to moscow - they could see it - then decided not to take it & diverted troops south towards Stalingrad.

[Hanz Lutz]

Correction they cannot retake Moscow soviets fight like lions ,germans can done nothing.

[Hanz Lutz]

Here is info about battle for moscow

http://www.serpukhov.su/dima/war/eng/emova.htm

[Hosenfield]

umm, moscow was certainly a target, folks. german troops saw the towers of the kremlin. its just that moscow's defense was insanely thick.

the russian winter was demoralizing troops, damageing transporation, tanks, freezing weapons.

my grandfather told me how once they got there it was so cold that their mg34s , mp40s, and k98s froze and wouldn't work. even if they urinated on their weapons , they would freeze again in one or two minutes.

artillery support, air support became nil. guns froze up.

It was even worse for the non-motorized troops. they had thin wool coats and their tunics, nothing else. even seizing clothes form the populace wasn't enough.

in the end, all my grandfather and his comardes could do was to assault/defend enemy positions with spades and hand grenades.... when hundreds of thousands of russians attacked with their warm coats and automatics...

[Firefly]

It was even worse for the non-motorized troops. they had thin wool coats and their tunics, nothing else. even seizing clothes form the populace wasn't enough.


Really, why would they do this? Surely the poor civillians would freeze?

[Dani]

It was even worse for the non-motorized troops. they had thin wool coats and their tunics, nothing else. even seizing clothes form the populace wasn't enough.


Really, why would they do this? Surely the poor civillians would freeze?

:D Is no need to be sarcastic, Firefly!

[Hanz Lutz]

Winter for german soldiers surly been worst then soviets ,winter is reason for germans could take moscow ,spviets defend your capital but winter help him a lot ,better been killed in fight then beem freezed.

[Hosenfield]

It was even worse for the non-motorized troops. they had thin wool coats and their tunics, nothing else. even seizing clothes form the populace wasn't enough.


Really, why would they do this? Surely the poor civillians would freeze?


russian civilians had something called a house and a fireplace.

german foot sloggers had the cold, wet ground.

[Hanz Lutz]

It was even worse for the non-motorized troops. they had thin wool coats and their tunics, nothing else. even seizing clothes form the populace wasn't enough.


Really, why would they do this? Surely the poor civillians would freeze?


russian civilians had something called a house and a fireplace.

german foot sloggers had the cold, wet ground.

Well hosenfield you must know then soviets civillians been poor and they dont have clothhes and food for yourself ,i speak true germans steel from them in war no one want to go and collest wood for fire ,and they freeze so like a germans .

[Commando Jordovski]

umm, moscow was certainly a target, folks. german troops saw the towers of the kremlin. its just that moscow's defense was insanely thick.

the russian winter was demoralizing troops, damageing transporation, tanks, freezing weapons.

my grandfather told me how once they got there it was so cold that their mg34s , mp40s, and k98s froze and wouldn't work. even if they urinated on their weapons , they would freeze again in one or two minutes.

artillery support, air support became nil. guns froze up.

It was even worse for the non-motorized troops. they had thin wool coats and their tunics, nothing else. even seizing clothes form the populace wasn't enough.

in the end, all my grandfather and his comardes could do was to assault/defend enemy positions with spades and hand grenades.... when hundreds of thousands of russians attacked with their warm coats and automatics...

Nice Information HosenField :wink: ,
I was watching a discovery show a couple of weeks ago where a group of russian soldiers that were surrounded by the germans but hiding secretly under a snowy bunker...and it became so cold that the bullets all froze and the guns wouldn't move, eventually only a small group of Germans found them when there were 3 times more Russians, the Russians couldn't move there guns and were immediatly Gunned Down by the Germans.

[Commando Jordovski]

It was even worse for the non-motorized troops. they had thin wool coats and their tunics, nothing else. even seizing clothes form the populace wasn't enough.


Really, why would they do this? Surely the poor civillians would freeze?


russian civilians had something called a house and a fireplace.

german foot sloggers had the cold, wet ground.

Well hosenfield you must know then soviets civillians been poor and they dont have clothhes and food for yourself ,i speak true germans steel from them in war no one want to go and collest wood for fire ,and they freeze so like a germans .

The Russians scavenged German bodies and took their MP40's and MP44's, who knows that else they scavenged for :twisted:

[Firefly]

It was even worse for the non-motorized troops. they had thin wool coats and their tunics, nothing else. even seizing clothes form the populace wasn't enough.


Really, why would they do this? Surely the poor civillians would freeze?

:D Is no need to be sarcastic, Firefly!

im sorry, I will re-phrase my outburst.

It shows the true nature of the War that the German soldiers had no regard for Russian civillians that they even took the clothes from the population. probably kicked them out of their houses too no doubt.

Ah the Nazis, makes you wonder just what they were about eh!

[Hosenfield]

americans and brits in the korean war did the same, chum. to avoid freezing to death.

[Firefly]

americans and brits in the korean war did the same, chum. to avoid freezing to death.

What, they stripped the S-Koreans naked and stole their houses, please enlighten me with the proof of this.

[Hosenfield]

americans and brits in the korean war did the same, chum. to avoid freezing to death.

What, they stripped the S-Koreans naked and stole their houses, please enlighten me with the proof of this.

no, i did not say "stripp naked" and the germans didn't strip the russians naked either. if you read any korean war memoir or just basic korean war history, the gear worn by the americans was very inadequate for the weather. like the russians, the chinese were actually better dressed.

[Hanz Lutz]

Guys please not star another war ,stay on topic .

[Hosenfield]

if the italians didn't start the north africa front, the "afrika korps" would be available in russia. I bet rommel would've foiled operation uranus with Hoth.