PPSH

[South African Military]

http://www.ppsh41.com/ppshcutaway.jpg

The Russian PPSH was a very cheap and very simple sub-machine gun that had a high rate of fire, and could also carry 71 bullets in a large round barrel. About 5 million PPSHs where built by the end of 1945.

http://www.ppsh41.com/photoptpics/stalingrad.jpg
http://www.ppsh41.com/photoptpics/marching.jpg

The PPSH was an extremely effective gun and often complete units were armed with only the PPSH. It was also highly prized by the German troops, who whould use the PPSH instead of their own weapons. This was quite an extraodinary gun.

Below their is a link to a video clip of the PPSH with all 71 bullets fired (modern clip).
http://www.ppsh41.com/ppshmgp.MPG

[Russischer Fritz]

Yes, it enough the quite good automatic device :)

[Gen. Sandworm]

Wow those are some pretty good pics. Yet another simple but effective gun made by the Russians. I dont know alot about this gun however I will say that in just about every WW2 game ive played this gun is a pain to go up against.

[South African Military]

Wow those are some pretty good pics. Yet another simple but effective gun made by the Russians. I dont know alot about this gun however I will say that in just about every WW2 game ive played this gun is a pain to go up against.

very true! :lol: do u have Call of Duty United Offensive?

[Russischer Fritz]

We play this game every day and night on a local network!!!! :D 8)

[Gen. Sandworm]

I did have COD UO untill i moved back to BFE. :cry: I have a T-1 connection at work but at home its dial up. And good lord it sux. COD could use a bit more on the realism i think however is loads of fun to play. I get totally get lost and lose all track of time. MUST KILL MORE :D

[South African Military]

ya COD could be slightly more realistic, but its a hell of alot better than Medal of Honor. That game was crazy, u would take on like 20 germans at a time all by yourself. :)

[South African Military]

right, (cough*) (cough*) back to history.

[Cactus]

I wanna go to Russia and pick me up some surplus weapons one day. :D

[South African Military]

I think you can still get them today. http://www.ppsh41.com/ this is a link with some info about how to use your ppsh.

[Gen. Sandworm]

I wanna go to Russia and pick me up some surplus weapons one day. :D

Im sure you can probably find them on Ebay too. Ive seen lots of WW2 weapons on there.

[Preatorian]

I wanna go to Russia and pick me up some surplus weapons one day. :D
You welcome ! :D

[Gen. Sandworm]

I wanna go to Russia and pick me up some surplus weapons one day. :D
You welcome ! :D

Dont forget to pick up one of the big furry hats as well. :D

[Preatorian]

By the way, PPSH wasn't one available Soviet SMG during WWII.
PPD (Pistolet-Pulemet Degtyareva), few versions, M1934, M1934/38, M1940.
http://manyaks.narod.ru/war/guns/smg/ppd40.jpg
PPD 1940.
http://schools.keldysh.ru/sch346/2003/intern/war/photos/weapons/hand/ppsh.jpg
PPD 1940 - top, PPSH - bottom.

PPS (Pistolet Pulemet Sudaeva) M1943
http://vpk-kaskad.narod.ru/Photo07/12-03.jpg

All SMG used 7.62x25 TT cartriges, blouback action, PPSH and PPS got only "full auto" mode, PPD can be svitched on "single auto".

PPS was a best Soviet WWII SMG, maybe best in the World... Very cheap, durable, accurate, light weighted, with slow rate of fire (600 shots per minute/ 800-900 shpm has PPSH and PPD) - that make possible single shots without fire mode svitch. Most part of PPS produced by stamped steel and needfull metal was 1/2 from PPSH or PPD, as well as time to produce one (2 PPS/1 PPSH).

[Dragkon]

To be accurate, PPS(Suduev) appeared in 1942 and was used under Leningrad. PPS-43 - it is a modification.

[Sturmtruppen]

Yes!,that mg was powerfull,an big rate of fire,russian weapons are very important today too.
(AK-47 is very powerfull and easy to use).

[South African Military]

Yes Ak-47 very good gun, reliable, can go through any amount of dirt and it will still work. Also very cheap, a favorite amongst small rebel groups, and small armies. Possibley better that M-16, depending on the terrain.

[Preatorian]

Yes Ak-47 very good gun, reliable, can go through any amount of dirt and it will still work. Also very cheap, a favorite amongst small rebel groups, and small armies. Possibley better that M-16, depending on the terrain.
How i know, South African Army today hawe in use assault rifle, based on AK-47 design, called R-4 ?
In 70's Finland bought license and machinery to produce AK-47, refused by USSR Army in favor of 5.45 mm AK74. After few years Israel bought this license from Finland, a bit modified AK-47 and adopted it as Galil (today no more Galils in Israel army, how i know, mostly M16A2 and M4)
Later Israel sell license in South Africa.

Wich assault rifle is better - AK or M16... is it long and useless talk, i tought. I hawe enought shoot with both - AK47, AKM, AK-74 in Russia, in Army and during mine police service. Yes, AK is it very durable and reliable assault rifle, best assault rifle for army such russian. You can no care about this gun - just point it to enemy side, press trigger and AK will starting make "bang-bang-bang" immidiatelly. Is it really easy to disassembly, no small and very small detals, pins, linkages.

Rifles, based on AR15 design are different. They like care, they not like dirt. But in right hands is it good weapon too, comfortable, accurate and... reliable.
Yes, reliable.
I shoot with M16A2 enough to see it and i talk with army men, who used M16A2 - if you care about yout gun - it will be your reliable frend. For example, Israel army officer, who served with M16A2 five years sayd that he's M16A2 never jammed or missfired during this years. But he say as well - if you dont clean M16A2 or just not wiped out grease after storeing - be ready for jams or missfire.

So, is you need gun for army, complected with unexpirienced men - you need AK for sure.
But if in your army serving professionals... let them decide wich gun they like to use. I hawe meet army's professionals, who like AKs and M-16, and i can't say now - this rifle is best and this rifle is worse. Good fighter kill someone with any rifle using shootgun slug, inserted in pice of pipe - win in battlefield is it not matter of guns, but fighter expirience and good commanders. With assholes in HQ everyone will lose war, independly of weaponary.
My choise is FN FAL - at least it allow me keep bad guys away, about 800 meters away before they can hit me with theyr Iran-made AKs. :wink:

[FW-190 Pilot]

i heard AK-47 is good @ firepower, while M-16 is good @ accuracy

[South African Military]

From what I know, Id have to say that the Ak-47 is more effective in dense regions such as jungles and forests, because of its strong fast firepower, also since those regions have a considerable amount of dirt the Ak-47 would probably be more reliable at times. The M-16 when in open regions such as deserts, plains, because its highly accurate and would kill targets before the Ak-47 can get into an accurate range. The M-16 is no match for the Ak-47 in close combat.

[FW-190 Pilot]

and i heard AK-47 requires less trainning to be good at it, and M-16 would take longer trainning time in comparison

[Preatorian]

Yes, AK-47 and AKM (a bit modified AK-47) more effective in jungle and probabli in forrest. Because caliber 7.62 is more effective, if you need shoot trought trees and bushes.
And sure - AK47/AKM much easy to disassembly in field conditions - i hawe seen only one rifle, that more simple than AK-47, is it FN-FAL.
Yes, any man can manage with AK after two lessions about it.
AR15 family more harder to mantaining - it easy to disassembly but there a lot of parts, and a lot of really small pins. Ususal deal - loose firing pin after disassembling in field. And after that your AR15 no more weapon - just stick with rounds and sight.

But today no more AK-47 (maybe only somewhere in Iraq or Iran or somewhere in Africa). In USSR/Russia today in army use AK 74 and AK "hundred series" such a AK 107. And russian caliber 5.45 practicly equal to NATO 5.56.
AK74 got all better from "father" AK-47, reliable, durable and simple.

At my look i need few things in AK-74 for more comfortable use: do something with sight, 'cos presented sight hawe a really short sight line, is it make AK74 a bit hard to aiming. And i need two-side safer-mode of fire switch. I lefthanded man and when i use AK - i need do some kind of tricks to operate. And empty cartriges flew from ejector sometimes directly in my face... :(
I used in USA AK, modifited such way, with longer sight line, customized handles - and it was more easy to use than standard AK.


In good hands M-16A2 - accurate and reliable instrument of war.
But i no need full automatic fire mode in my rifle and i like 7.62 NATO.
For me M-14 would be better choise from USA rifles (or M18 too). Two well placed shoots from semy-auto rifle not whorse than 30 rounds, spreed in air with full auto.

[FW-190 Pilot]

i watched stalingrad, the german soldiers would throw their machine gun away to use the PPSH machine gun

some of the german soldiers say in the movie:" this is a really good gun, they never go jam on you"

just a bit off-topic, you might not want to be a canadian soldier in world war 1, guns explosion caused by malfunction gun has killed many canadian soldiers, and their boots are made of cardboards, what a way to treat your soldiers :shock:

[Preatorian]

i watched stalingrad, the german soldiers would throw their machine gun away to use the PPSH machine gun

some of the german soldiers say in the movie:" this is a really good gun, they never go jam on you"

Yeah, Nazi really like our PPSH and PPD. Also they use our SVT 40 auto-rifles (they got a lot of it, as trophy of first days of war, when USSR army depots was captured full of brand-new rifles). Later they even copied SVT 40 as Gew 43/K43.
USSR troops liked Nazi's P38 and P08, sometimes MP 38/40 (better got MP 38/40 than nothing) and MG34/41/43... usual rotation of weapon in any wars...

just a bit off-topic, you might not want to be a canadian soldier in world war 1, guns explosion caused by malfunction gun has killed many canadian soldiers, and their boots are made of cardboards, what a way to treat your soldiers :shock:
Hmm... Canadians use they's Ross M1907, Ross, rifle Mark II and Ross M1910, Ross, rifle, Mark III... that was a good gun, accurate and durable. And never exposed as result of bad design or fabric- related malfunction such as barrel spoilage...but... "The worst thing about the Ross system, however, was that its bolt could be eventually assembled in the wrong order, and in this case rifle could be assembled and then fired with the bolt not locked to the receiver - with disastrous results to both shooter and rifle."
So, it was just problem of construction - ability to assembly bolt in wrong order and it will cause harm to shooter... just imagine what .303 cartrige exploded near to face can do. It's usually can't kill (hawe seen a lot of such accidents with hunters and soldiers), but can make shooter blind, at least can make shooter out of order for few weeks.
Is it not big deal with weapons - large quantity of soldiers harmed during they tried close don't locked automatically bolt of AK - usually they kick bolt handle forward and AK fire by Ak's construction feature, not each time, but fire sometimes... and usually they got mossle pointed right on face with butt on a ground... At least it was a broked foot's bones, sometimes bullet wound.

[Adolf Hitler]

The PPSch-41 (Pistolet Pulemjot Schpagina model of 1941 = Shpagin submachinegun) was one of major infantry weapons of the Soviet troops during the World war 2. Total number of PPSch's manufactured during WW2 estimates to more than 6 millions. The gun became one of the symbols of the Great Patriotic War. Retired from Soviet Army service soon after the WW2, the PPSH was widely exported to some pro-Soviet countries arount the world, including Vietnam and many African countries.

The PPSch-41 was designed as a cheap and simple but effective war-time weapon. It featured simple blowback operated action, fired from open bolt. The striker was permanently fixed in the bolt face. PPSch-41 was a select-fire firearm, with fire selector switch located inside the triggerguard, ahead of trigger. The safety was integrated into the charging handle and locked the bolt in forward or rearward position. The receiver and the barrel shroud was made from stamped steel. The front part of the barrel shroud extends beyound the muzzle and acts as a muzzle brake / muzzle flip compensator. Early PPSch-41's were issued with drum magazines with capacity of 71 round, similar to ones used in PPD-40.
Such high capacity increased the firepower but the magazines were too slow to refill and not too reliable, so in 1942 a curved box magazine was developed. This magazine held 35 rounds and was much more comfortable to carry in pouches. Early magazines were made from .5 mm sheet steel and were somewhat unreliable. Later magazines were made from 1 mm steel and were completely satisfactory.
Usually, infantrymen carry one drum in the gun and some box magazines in the pouches or pockets.

Early guns featured elevation-ajustable rear sights, later ones flip-type "L"-shaped rear sights marked for 100 and 200 meters range.

All PPSch-41s featured hardwood stocks.

The main advantage of the PPSch-41 was bigger effective range (when compared to both Allies and Axis submachineguns of that era). It also was accurate enough and reliable. The main drawbacks were: heavy weight, lenght (too big for trench combat or for mobile operations) and the fact that the gun was sometimes prone (especially when weared enough) to unintended fire when dropped.

[Man of Stoat]

Although the Ross Mk3 can be re-assembled wrong, you have to be a total idiot to do it.

The big problem with the Ross is that it has a straight-pull bolt, where the sleeve and the bolt head are connected via intermeshing helical grooves. When dirt gets into these grooves, the bolt becomes VERY difficult to operate, and after a while requires to be beaten open with a lump of wood or a boot. Look at the animation in Praetorian's signature - that's a Ross being fired & then beaten open.

The Ross was also a design born of the "Bisley" school of thought that an individual infatryman should be able to engage a point target (i.e. an enemy infantaryman) at 1000 yards. Thus, there are many features on the rifle that are more suited to target shooting (Ross was a long-range competition shooter, IIRC): the barrel is too long, the rifle is too heavy, and the sights are overly complicated with the battle sight set at to long a range. It is, indeed, extremely accurate. There are a few other peculiarities with the rifle as well: the charger guide is offset, so the clip is positioned at an angle, and is slightly tricky to push the rounds out of. The magazine is also a single-stack sheet metal affair which protrudes from the bottom of the stock and can get damaged.

The straight-pull action is extremely fast when it's working, but when it jams, the rifle's useless. Once this was discovered, the Canadians were re-armed with the SMLE as quickly as possible.

[Walther]

All SMG used 7.62x25 TT cartriges, blouback action, PPSH and PPS got only "full auto" mode, PPD can be svitched on "single auto".

.

This is wrong. I´ve got a German spec deactivated PPsH 41 in my safe (it is still stripable and cockable). There is a sliding lever inside the trigger guard, just in front of the trigger (you can see it in the drawing on top of this thread). This lever controls automatic or single round fire.

Jan

[JoseFrancis]

i watched stalingrad, the german soldiers would throw their machine gun away to use the PPSH machine gun

some of the german soldiers say in the movie:" this is a really good gun, they never go jam on you"

just a bit off-topic, you might not want to be a canadian soldier in world war 1, guns explosion caused by malfunction gun has killed many canadian soldiers, and their boots are made of cardboards, what a way to treat your soldiers :shock:

Yes but Russians would somethimes throw away their PPsh for the more accurate MP40 SMG.
I'm guessing that the choice of the SMG is simply out of taste.

but yes, PPsh seems to be quite an efficient SMG while being quite cheap to build.

[Krautlinger]

in medal of honour european assault, in the russian campaign, the ppsh was a most superb weapon... even if i went a little nuts screaming at the nazis as i gunned them down....I'm not crazy by the way... :lol:

[T-34s_Are_Cool]

I wanna go to Russia and pick me up some surplus weapons one day. :D
Yeah right can you pck me up kalashnikov and an RPG 7. What a down to earth and ralistic plan. Im sure it will happen

[Crab_to_be]

T34's quoting doesn't work for me - am I the only one having this problem? Maybe putting spaces between the quote/unquote commands and the words either side might help.

[Tsolias]

Great topic and pics for a very intresting weapon-thanks!

[StalingradK]

The Pah-Pah-Pah-sha was the best SMG during World War II... Well says every book I've read about weapontry.

[Hanz Lutz]

The Pah-Pah-Pah-sha was the best SMG during World War II... Well says every book I've read about weapontry.

I dont think so ................ :wink:

[Cuts]

The Pah-Pah-Pah-sha was the best SMG during World War II... Well says every book I've read about weapontry.

I dont think so ................ :wink:

You don't know which books he's read Clauss. :)

[Hanz Lutz]

The Pah-Pah-Pah-sha was the best SMG during World War II... Well says every book I've read about weapontry.

I dont think so ................ :wink:

You don't know which books he's read Clauss. :)

Maybe :D ,hmmmm which book said then the best ww2 smg is ppsh ,tell me a name maybe some soviets book. :D :D :D

[Man of Stoat]

Jane's: "[The PPS-43 is] probably the best of the three wartime Soviet SMGs"

Smith & Smith SAOTW makes no comment.

[[21Pz]Stauffenberg]

In the ww2 game i play (Forgotten Hope/mod for BF1942)
we call the ppsh and the pps 43 "SPRAY AND PRAY" weapons.
Because they fire so fast and have such a huge magazine :lol:

[StalingradK]

It was, the PPSh was the best SMG, even American soliders who fired it when they met the Soviets around the Eastern-Western border of conquered Europe said the Thompson failed in comparrison. -History Channel, Military Channel, and books. Tell me one that was better? The gun was like an AK-47 today, easy to clean, barley ever jammed, great accuracy (at right range), tough ass weapon.

[bas]

Tell me one that was better? The gun was like an AK-47 today, easy to clean, barley ever jammed, great accuracy (at right range), tough ass weapon.

The PPS-43 was better.

Easier to clean
Lighter
Lower rate of fire
More compact
More reliable.
Cheaper to produce.
Stick magazine better than the drum.

The only complaint I have about the PPS-43 is that there is no proper lock on the butt of the shoulder stock.

[StalingradK]

I mean like... all the PP models.

[bas]

I mean like... all the PP models.

PP is the Russian equlivent to MP, it basically means that this weapon is a sub-machinegun. It does not show that it is a model from a series of weapons (like a model A vs Model T ford).

The PPSh-41 and the PPS-43 are not from the same designer neither is the PPD-34, PPD-38 and PPD-40 which were all designed by Degtyarev.

The Degtyarev guns were not in the same class as the later two.

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

i heard AK-47 is good @ firepower, while M-16 is good @ accuracy

Only problem with M-16 is it is outdated, jams, and needs to be cleaned ever so often.

[Gutkowski]

I had the opportunity to fire a ppsh last year ,What a great maching gun very little kick but the powder from the rounds was real nasty smelling LOL
Here is a photo of that great day ,If you look at the photo I also has my SVT 40 with us ,second rifle in from the right
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/gutkowski/Audiepics8.jpg

[Cuts]

i heard AK-47 is good @ firepower, while M-16 is good @ accuracy

Only problem with M-16 is it is outdated, jams, and needs to be cleaned ever so often.

:roll:
Oh dear.