Archive - Marshal Jukov

[lieutlienant Vorontsov]

Marshal Jukov is the greatest comender of II WW!
What do you think?

[Gen. Sandworm]

He was a great commander. dont know about him being the best. Of course, I dont know a great deal about him besides what ive gathered from books and the History Channel. (The History Channel rocks BTW) I did hear that the Japanese and the Russians had a small conflict sometime before the german invasion of the Soviet Union, in which japanese had their asses handed to them by Gen. Zukov. After that little episode, Japan was not interested in taking part in the invasion of the Soviet Union. So have to give him props there.

[lieutlienant Vorontsov]

Gen. Sandworm can you say your faworit Comender

[Gen. Sandworm]

I wouldnt say he is my favorite commander but he was a really good one. Heinz Guderian is my favorite.

[Komissar Ombrok]

Zhukov is slaughter and killer. He havn't any strategy abilities like a Timoshenko, Konev, Rokossovskiy, Vasilevskiy... Now, when some Soviet archives are opened, we can see the true face of this "commander".

2Vorontsov: read the book of V. Suvorov "Shadow of victory". Sad, but facts is very strong thing...

And more.. The true teoretic of war is a marshal Shaposhnikov. I'm strongly recommended find his book "Brain of army" This is a katehisis of Soviet, and not only Soviet army. German officers, when training in Liepetsk studied this book well too. Book of Heinz Guderian "Attention! Tanks!" is an only extendeded version of one of chapters of Shaposhnikov book. In that book first time in the world, was described strategy of "blietskreig". Not with this name, of course... It has named "preventive defense deep operations". But do not forget - term "defense" in Red Army - it's a cover to selfish agressive plans. Nice example of his strategy - air control must be achived, by that book, with unexpected bomb attack to the landing sites of enemy, combined with deep attack of fast light tanks, without blocade fortified zones, it takes second wave of heavy tanks and artillery. Third wave - is NKVD armies, taking control on the captured nation, repressing 20-30% of men's to prevent organized guerilla defense... Except heavy tanks - very like Hitler did. SS or NKVD, BT-7 or T-4, where is difference? But Shaposhnikov wrote his book when Guderian was only young officer and don't thought about tanks...

[Gen. Sandworm]

Zhukov is slaughter and killer. He havn't any strategy abilities like a Timoshenko, Konev, Rokossovskiy, Vasilevskiy... Now, when some Soviet archives are opened, we can see the true face of this "commander".


You seem to really not like Zukov. Can you site any examples of why he was such an a**hole. Dumb strategic moves......etc. Dont know that much in depth WW2 Russian history but I like learning every thing about WW2.

[Komissar Ombrok]

For example: battle near Elna. Official history said, that Jukov was liberate Elna's position, and save the Moscow with that... But what was in reality? Guderian left a defense positions (about 30.000 of soldiers) without tanks at the Elna and went to the Kiev. But, Jukov whith large infantry forces not went to help the surrounded Kiev forces. Jukov send attack on the Elna. To the ready, well-defended positions. They send attacks waves 5 times in a day. (summary was more 200 attacks) Germans every night set a mines on the field and renew defenses. In that dumbs attacks Jukov spent about 2.000 000 of soldiers (murdered and hurted). 2 million and 30.000! Feel the differense?! He not even try to surround and blocade that group! Slaughter.

[South African Military]

For example: battle near Elna. Official history said, that Jukov was liberate Elna's position, and save the Moscow with that... But what was in reality? Guderian left a defense positions (about 30.000 of soldiers) without tanks at the Elna and went to the Kiev. But, Jukov whith large infantry forces not went to help the surrounded Kiev forces. Jukov send attack on the Elna. To the ready, well-defended positions. They send attacks waves 5 times in a day. (summary was more 200 attacks) Germans every night set a mines on the field and renew defenses. In that dumbs attacks Jukov spent about 2.000 000 of soldiers (murdered and hurted). 2 million and 30.000! Feel the differense?! He not even try to surround and blocade that group! Slaughter.

I have to agree with Komissar. Jukov wasnt that great.

[Komissar Ombrok]

More than that... After war and the death of Stalin, Jukov was first, and I hope last, commander who make a nuclear strike on own people... The place - Totsk. 30-kiloton bomb. Hours later the tank group and large number of infantry (only with respirator mask and paper robe for safety) initiate the attack near zero point... 40.000 soldiers with radiation burns... They give a subscribe of silence. They can't talk about that even to medics. I saw the photos of their children... With soft bones and light-orange skin.. Huge fists or foots... But Jukov self even not went to Totsk, or Tambov(region center of the place of experiment). They commanded it from Moscow...

[Gen. Sandworm]

More than that... After war and the death of Stalin, Jukov was first, and I hope last, commander who make a nuclear strike on own people... The place - Totsk. 30-kiloton bomb. Hours later the tank group and large number of infantry (only with respirator mask and paper robe for safety) initiate the attack near zero point... 40.000 soldiers with radiation burns... They give a subscribe of silence. They can't talk about that even to medics. I saw the photos of their children... With soft bones and light-orange skin.. Huge fists or foots... But Jukov self even not went to Totsk, or Tambov(region center of the place of experiment). They commanded it from Moscow...

It would seem to me that Zukov and Stalin were a bit similiar in there disregard for human life. Funny if you say Hitler just about anywhere in the world and people automatically think worst person that ever lived. But you say Stalin or Zukov most dont really think to much about it. I would have to say that they were all just as equally bad and had no empathy for other people. This is the true essence of evil in my opinion.

[South African Military]

More than that... After war and the death of Stalin, Jukov was first, and I hope last, commander who make a nuclear strike on own people... The place - Totsk. 30-kiloton bomb. Hours later the tank group and large number of infantry (only with respirator mask and paper robe for safety) initiate the attack near zero point... 40.000 soldiers with radiation burns... They give a subscribe of silence. They can't talk about that even to medics. I saw the photos of their children... With soft bones and light-orange skin.. Huge fists or foots... But Jukov self even not went to Totsk, or Tambov(region center of the place of experiment). They commanded it from Moscow...

It would seem to me that Zukov and Stalin were a bit similiar in there disregard for human life. Funny if you say Hitler just about anywhere in the world and people automatically think worst person that ever lived. But you say Stalin or Zukov most dont really think to much about it. I would have to say that they were all just as equally bad and had no empathy for other people. This is the true essence of evil in my opinion.

Ya, I think that Hitler had some regard for his own soldeirs, though that might of just been because he didnt have an unlimited supply.

[lieutlienant Vorontsov]

I think you just dont love him, all world say this a great commender!!!

[Komissar Ombrok]

Facts is strong thing. Many things not like all world talk about them... Try to learn this question more in detail... Can you tell me at least one battle wich Jukov WON?

[lieutlienant Vorontsov]

Battle for Berlin, the defense of Moscow.

[lieutlienant Vorontsov]

So many say that if b not its strategy of the taking of Berlin first Berlin bralib for a long time, then yeslib not its strategy that would be many victims. After this operation it obtained not only Soviet but also English orders and medal!

[lieutlienant Vorontsov]

j
Just one question were you read this information?

[Komissar Ombrok]

Many places of knowledge... But I recomended you excellent book of V. Suvorov "Shadow of the victory", again. Battle at Berlin? Oh... This is another shame of Red Army. Until end of war Jukov couldn't understand - send tanks in don't captured town - it's madness. He "present" to German 2 tank guardian armies (not batalion or division. ARMY!) , equipped with newest JS-2 sending them into the Berlin even without infantry cover. They all was burned in the streets of the Berlin witout any German losses... Defense of the Moscow? But counterstrike at the Moscow was ruled by Vasilevskiy. Jukov i that time was made crazy attack attacks at Elna (I wrote it above)... In the period when Jukov commands the defense of the Moskow wasn't any big operations or battles...

[lieutlienant Vorontsov]

Suvorov this is traitor, you read his history, him it had to shoot, but it had time to imigrirovat', it here and writes entire poor about the Soviet Union!!!

[Komissar Ombrok]

No. He wrote the true, for sure... You may check ANY fact they using - and find out that's true. More than that, I believe to my grandfather, who was in NKVD, he told me about Jukov very welll... Such facts, about to trading food for relics and gold from Leningrad's museums, in time when in blocaded city people ate even a rats...

[Gen. Sandworm]

Another topic that I have moved to keep things clear. :D

[FarraoN]

suvorov-rezun the liar and a hypocrite. He is ready to go on all for the sake of glory and money. And his history false for 80 percent.
And to read his "history" it is necessary as the adventure novel.

[Komissar Ombrok]

All history is like adventure novel. I don't trust any books without facts. Suvorov give facts, which easy to check. And I checked them many times, because that was very interesting. And may check, showed me, that Suvorov was right. Try to check his books by yourself, and you'll be surprised. In reality, a lot of facts is affirmated his point of view, even that, which he didn't used in his books. I think he didn't find them or can't use because size of books was limited.

[FarraoN]

The facts?!! There are no facts, only his conjectures and conclusions which submitted by the facts.
Selectively (I already badly remember simply all this delirium, as read already for a long time):
rezun writes that Stalin planned to attack Germany but Hitler has been compelled him to outstrip
Delirium! Itself Hitler it denies in book Mein Kampf
And about the flying tank in general to read it is impossible. It at a level of the newspaper "UFO"

[Komissar Ombrok]

Facts is facts. You don't payed attentions when read his books. About flying tank, in the yard of BGTU there is a sample of 1938 y. Winged light tank, adopted to landing when dropped from 3000 meters. That's fact. About "Mein Kampf"... It's funny. This book was writted, when Hitler was jailed, before he got a power. HOW he can write about attack of SU, wich will be planned and prepared 10 years later? You have a lack of arguments, man...

[FarraoN]

I see you slippery... Well, you will competently confirm these two facts. With links on plausible sources

[Dani]

About flying tank, in the yard of BGTU there is a sample of 1938 y. Winged light tank, adopted to landing when dropped from 3000 meters. That's fact.

Never heard about this flying tank.

[Komissar Ombrok]

You need a date when was wrote "Main Kampf"? Or you need a date when WW2 was began? For theese question I even don't answer you, you may find this dates yourself.

About project "wings of tank" or A-40:

http://mkmagazin.almanacwhf.ru/other/avia/kt_9703.htm

http://petrovith.narod.ru/p34.htm

There was another project based on BT series. I can't find the url fast, but on the second url that I give, you may see the theory picture of it maded by W. Christy.

[Dani]

Very interesting!!
I found also:
http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/kt.html
An interesting idea! Komissar, could you post a picture of that sample in the yard of BGTU (by the way, what means BGTU?)?
(Sorry for my off-topic post!)

[Komissar Ombrok]

An interesting idea! Komissar, could you post a picture of that sample in the yard of BGTU (by the way, what means BGTU?)?
(Sorry for my off-topic post!)

Sorry, but can't. BGTU (Baltiyskiy Gosudarstvenniy Tehnicheskiy Universitet, Baltic Goverment Tech University), the place, were I was studied. The most popular name of it is "Voenmeh" it' shortened from Voenno-Mechanichescjiy, Military Mechanic. The cameras restricted there, I can't take a photo. Also I havn't enough clearance to go in the yard, I saw it only from window...

[FarraoN]

Compare it to that that has invented rizun in the book
By the way, the first tests of the tank have begun on August, 7, 1942. And what there rizun spoke about the flying armadas ready on the first sign of Stalin to tear of all on a part?.

Sorry, in Russian.


В акте об испытаниях опытного планера указывалось на необходимость увеличения триммера руля высоты, постановки штурвального управления с червячной передачей и внесения конструктивных изменений в аэродинамическую компенсацию элеронов и управление закрылками. Отмечалось, что задача создания летающего танка решена, но были допущены ошибки. Модель планера и танка для продувок в аэродинамической трубе была выполнена в упрощенном варианте (без тросов, соединяющих бипланную коробку крыла и оперение, и без моделирования гусениц танка), что привело к ошибке в расчетах аэродинамических свойств "КТ" и требуемой мощности двигателей самолета-буксировщика. Кроме того, не было учтено сопротивление воздуха, что не позводило двигателям ТБ-3 поднять планер на требуемую высоту и усложнило управление им в полете. Из более мощных самолетов, способных поднять в воздух планер "КТ", на вооружении в то время находился лишь стратегический бомбардировщик Пе-8 (ТБ-7) конструкции В.М. Петлякова. Однако в годы войны было построено всего 80 таких машин. Пе-8 использовали для глубинных воздушных рейдов, в частности для бомбардировок Берлина, и рассчитывать на его использование в качестве буксировщика "КТ" по меньшей мере было В связи с этим дальнейшие летные испытания крылатого танка прекратились.

I wait for the proof of preparation of an attack of the USSR to Germany

[FarraoN]

Some links (Russian)

http://petrovith.narod.ru/p60.htm
http://www.armor.kiev.ua/lib/rabushau.zip

[Komissar Ombrok]

Suvorov didn't write about "flying armades". Re-read his book again. He wrote about experiments for flying tank, for agressive war. He didn't told about mass production. You miss it with mass production of BT series tank. About 15.000. They was concetrated at the border with German and was lost in first days of war... You need a proofs of SU preparations to war with German? Select any some next points, and I'll give an url to you. Select some, I haven't much time for searches, or try to find them by yourself.

1. Great number of tanks, wich can used only in European terrain, not Rusian.
2. Concentrations of large forces at border with German and Romania.
3. Placement landing sites near border.
4. About 20 millions russian-german military translators.
5. A lot of excellent maps of Bavaria, Prussia, Austria e.t.c.
6. Mobilization of the prisoners was made 3 months BEFORE war, but Stalin don't believe in German agression.
7. The song "Arize..." was written by Stalins order in December 1940.
8. ALL memories of soldiers and commanders begin: "We all know, that we are going to war" (Rokossovskiy), next page: The attack of German was unexpected. What war they mean at the beginning?
9. Hitler "Desision, to attack Russia is in the danger they are a making preparations to attack our oil plants in Ploeshty" (by books of Mannstein and Galland)

I can said more and more. The proofs of it not only Rezuns book. You also may read Drozdogonov "Tank sword of Soviet country" or "Nazis sword was making in USSR" (forgot names of autors) e.t.c. Try to search and you find a lot...

[Komissar Ombrok]

About your links: funny. That all I can say. The autors have such problem as you - they haven't an arguments. They give to Suvorov words that he don't said, and after broke them. Old method, but no usable to men who can think. They even can't read book properly or specially changed Suvorovs words.

[FarraoN]

I see with you to argue is useless. You are already final zombied the book. it was necessary to expect, reading your posts about Stalin
By the way, I agree with you concerning Zukov .
I do not believe this book on three principal causes.
1. rizun - the traitor
2. I do not believe the author who supposes so much discrepancies and frank lie.
3. He does not have historical education and he wrote the book abroad. About what authentic sources there can be a speech.
I think dispute closed on it . If to you from itis easier, continue to trust fairy rizun's tales .

[Komissar Ombrok]

I see with you to argue is useless. You are already final zombied the book. it was necessary to expect, reading your posts about Stalin
By the way, I agree with you concerning Zukov .
I do not believe this book on three principal causes.
1. rizun - the traitor
2. I do not believe the author who supposes so much discrepancies and frank lie.
3. He does not have historical education and he wrote the book abroad. About what authentic sources there can be a speech.
I think dispute closed on it . If to you from itis easier, continue to trust fairy rizun's tales .

1. The truth maybe said by anyone.

2. I recommend you books with autors, who not be traitors, have an historian education. Read them.