Your Favorite Fighter?

[skunker]

What is your favorite German fighter aircraft? I'd have to say that mine is the FW190 "Butcher Bird" because of its firepower AND coolness. I think the German aircraft look the most interesting out of all the planes that fought in WWII. Too bad so few exist to this day.

What is yours?

[TexanSkyraider]

BF-109. The 190 is great, and can probably take more damage, but I just like the lines of the 109 a little better. The Heinkel He-111 is a very close second, and I still haven't forgiven the CAF for crashing the last flying one in the world!

Hey guys, welcome to the forum! I am a 4 star general so you better go and floss my toes when I ask for it.

Seriously, welcome to the forum and hope we can start a fun and friendly community here.

[TexanSkyraider]

HOOWAH!

[FW-190 Pilot]

i like FW-190 8)

Hi and welcome! Did you see the FW190 video in our movie gallery?

Also, check out this picture: http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/new_war_photos/fw190splash.sized.jpg

And, don't forget that you can sign up for your special avatar by going to PROFILE and Avatar Gallery at the bottom. I believe there is also a luftwaffe pilot avatar there.

[FW-190 Pilot]

Hi and welcome! Did you see the FW190 video in our movie gallery?

Also, check out this picture: http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/new_war_photos/fw190splash.sized.jpg

And, don't forget that you can sign up for your special avatar by going to PROFILE and Avatar Gallery at the bottom. I believe there is also a luftwaffe pilot avatar there.
no i didnt, thanks for the remind, so just to debate, Mustang P-51D VS FW-190D, whos better?
actually where is the movie link? thanks again

[FW-190 Pilot]

Another thing about world war 2 plane is America is tring to convert the Me262 plane into Taxi, however, engines would be using US brand though
the pilot who is testing the new plane say its has very good handling

The movie link is at the bottom of our gallery page.

[TexanSkyraider]

I'm sorry, but what do you mean by "taxi"? I get the impression your native language is not English, and something is lost in the translation. :) I'm interested to know what you are talking about.

The Me-262 is a pretty bird. I have heard the original engines where very dangerous and often exploded.

[TexanSkyraider]

"so just to debate, Mustang P-51D VS FW-190D, whos better?"

The 190! With it's air cooled radial engine, it can take more battle damage.

The mustang has bad stall characteristics, and the cooling system made it vulnerable to any kind of fire from the ground or air. American pilots were facing much less skilled german pilots at the end of the war, so it's no suprise they "won the skies."

I know all the american pilots think the Mustang was the ultimate fighter, but then they never flew the english or german fighters! All the pilots I have talked to that have flown american, british and german fighters say the british ones handle the best.

[FW-190 Pilot]

I'm sorry, but what do you mean by "taxi"? I get the impression your native language is not English, and something is lost in the translation. :) I'm interested to know what you are talking about.

The Me-262 is a pretty bird. I have heard the original engines where very dangerous and often exploded.
sorry, my fault, the US navy is not using the Me262 for taxi :lol:
they just reproduce them to preserve history and for future study
and yeah, the original engine only have a couple of hours lifetime, according to this website
http://www.stormbirds.com/project/reports/report_1.htm
qoute from website
"The Me 262 might have changed the course of the war or lengthened it, if not for the fact that the useful life of the engines was measured in only a dozen or so hours. Compare that to today's engines which run for tens of thousands of hours and continue to be reliable. "


Interesting info for the FW-190D-9 is they are design to take down bombers and to protect the Me-262 during their takeoff, since Me-262 would take a long time to take off, which makes them vulnerable because of their poor acceleration

[WildBoar]

I think the D-series 190 was Water cooled .

I am a big fan of all the aircraft with a few favourites one of which has to be the Bristol Beaufighter :) but I also like the A-series 190 and the E-series 109

I have read that pilots who have flown planes from all nations found the Russian planes to be the nicest.

[South African Military]

Id have to go with the FW-109 , it was impressive, with quite a big armament.

[Stalingrad]

Me-262. Who can victorious thith fighter? Galland said:Mass application of fighters Me -262 could break a course of air war even during its late period. The fighter easy broke through defensive orders and forced down bombers

[South African Military]

Me-262. Who can victorious thith fighter? Galland said:Mass application of fighters Me -262 could break a course of air war even during its late period. The fighter easy broke through defensive orders and forced down bombers

Germany somehow could not manage to mass produce the Me-262. If they did, they would almost certainly change the course of the war.

[Gen. Sandworm]

[Germany somehow could not manage to mass produce the Me-262. If they did, they would almost certainly change the course of the war.

We might be getting a bit off topic here. But.....

I heard that the Germans did make quite a few Me-262's (many of which we captured or destroyed on the ground) but didnt have enough experienced pilots to fly them. The rookies that flew the majority of them just came out about even with the experienced US and British pilots. The Me-262 alone I dont think could have saved the Third Reich by itself even if it did have more pilots and planes. They would also need to mass produce some effective bombers as well. Just my opinion.

[FW-190 Pilot]

[Germany somehow could not manage to mass produce the Me-262. If they did, they would almost certainly change the course of the war.

We might be getting a bit off topic here. But.....

I heard that the Germans did make quite a few Me-262's (many of which we captured or destroyed on the ground) but didnt have enough experienced pilots to fly them. The rookies that flew the majority of them just came out about even with the experienced US and British pilots. The Me-262 alone I dont think could have saved the Third Reich by itself even if it did have more pilots and planes. They would also need to mass produce some effective bombers as well. Just my opinion.
maybe copy the japanese way and use it as suicide mission?
the rookie pilot are going to shoot down by allied experience pilot anyways, just used them to crash on bombers, planes or tanks
1.) it can prevent planes to be shoot on ground, since most of the planes already used on sucide mission
2.) it can terrorize allied troops
3.) make planes look awfully like the allied ones, so that allied soldiers have diffucult time to find out whether it is allied planes or axis planes, germany dont need to be worry about that since most planes are sent to die anyways

[South African Military]

Suicide? I dont think that the Germans where that courages (crazy) than the Japanese. The Japanese thought that if they did it they were going to be awarded in the next life, and so it was an honor to do this. The Germans did not think of any of this.

About the make planes look like Allied planes, well it might work if the Allied planes where flying into enemy terriotory. But the British had many radar posts, and there was a comment erlier that said they had their own indetification that would tell that they are Allied. So it wont work to great.

The Germans took alot of their pilots for the ME-262 out of the Chilrdrens army or something like that. So they where very young and inexperienced. So I guess, in a way, it would be good to make them do suicide missions, cause they where sure to be shot down sooner or later.

[Stalingrad]

Certainly in 1945 and in second half 1944 mass production Ìå 262 any more would not help Germany. But if factories of Germany could let out planned 1000 planes in a month since spring of 1944 the superiority of allies in air could be undermined. In first half of 1944 Germany still had reserves of pilots. Though all the same it would lose for war

[Gen. Sandworm]

I think the 1st test flights of the ME-262 were in late 42. Just think if they had really thrown the resources into that project and had production rolling on them. You could have seen a decent amount in the skyes in late 43 or early 44. That would have made a major difference.

[South African Military]

I think the 1st test flights of the ME-262 were in late 42. Just think if they had really thrown the resources into that project and had production rolling on them. You could have seen a decent amount in the skyes in late 43 or early 44. That would have made a major difference.

ya it would, they would practically rule the skies. However the British did have the first Allied jet aircraft in WW2 called the Gloster Meteor. It entered service some time in 1944, and was used to combat the V-1 flying bomb. Later on it was used to counter Me-262s, but there is no record of the two planes meeting in combat. Of course if the Germans stepped up research and got the plane out in 1943 there will be no one to match the speed with that of the 262. The Griffon engined spitfire only entered service in 1944.

[WildBoar]

The problem with the 262 coming into service was that hitler wanted it to be a bomber rather than a fighter so production was held up whilst that was addressed otherwise it may well have neded differently

[Gen. Sandworm]

A fighter or a bomber.....it still would have been a major problem if they would have mass produced it sooner. This plane alone ... I dont feel it would have won the war but would have made lots of trouble. Massive manpower defeated the Germans. But whatever the Me-262 was a hell of a plane. Imagine if they had enough experienced pilots to fly them. :|

[WildBoar]

My point was that if they had been allowed to develop it as a fighter then they probably would have had large numbers available.

[FW-190 Pilot]

most of the post are post by three of us, south africa military, general sandworm and me (FW-190 Pilot), i think it would be much better if current members can post more often, for example, the entire japanese section is post by me only, no body else start a new thread in there. so my point is your contribution is gold to this forum, please post more often then you are now, and of course, look for quality post not quantity (thats what i try to do too)

[Gen. Sandworm]

most of the post are post by three of us, south africa military, general sandworm and me (FW-190 Pilot), i think it would be much better if current members can post more often, for example, the entire japanese section is post by me only, no body else start a new thread in there. so my point is your contribution is gold to this forum, please post more often then you are now, and of course, look for quality post not quantity (thats what i try to do too)

Good point FW-190. The site is growing well. I try to start new topics that might help draw more people in. So if you can think of any please start one. Just make sure that they are useful and not redundent.

[FW-190 Pilot]

Suicide? I dont think that the Germans where that courages (crazy) than the Japanese. The Japanese thought that if they did it they were going to be awarded in the next life, and so it was an honor to do this. The Germans did not think of any of this.

About the make planes look like Allied planes, well it might work if the Allied planes where flying into enemy terriotory. But the British had many radar posts, and there was a comment erlier that said they had their own indetification that would tell that they are Allied. So it wont work to great.

The Germans took alot of their pilots for the ME-262 out of the Chilrdrens army or something like that. So they where very young and inexperienced. So I guess, in a way, it would be good to make them do suicide missions, cause they where sure to be shot down sooner or later.
but i see the SS troops are very crazy about their nazi germany, maybe they are willing to sarafice themselves?

[Dani]

but i see the SS troops are very crazy about their nazi germany, maybe they are willing to sarafice themselves?

IMO if you talk about the willingness of the SS to fight hardly (remember that they took part in many bloody battles) you could call it sacrifice.
Also I think that SS had to prove that they were even better than the old SA troops.

[South African Military]

but i see the SS troops are very crazy about their nazi germany, maybe they are willing to sarafice themselves?

IMO if you talk about the willingness of the SS to fight hardly (remember that they took part in many bloody battles) you could call it sacrifice.
Also I think that SS had to prove that they were even better than the old SA troops.

Im kinoff confused by your last post Dani, are you reffering to SS troops in N Africa?

[South African Military]

Suicide? I dont think that the Germans where that courages (crazy) than the Japanese. The Japanese thought that if they did it they were going to be awarded in the next life, and so it was an honor to do this. The Germans did not think of any of this.

About the make planes look like Allied planes, well it might work if the Allied planes where flying into enemy terriotory. But the British had many radar posts, and there was a comment erlier that said they had their own indetification that would tell that they are Allied. So it wont work to great.

The Germans took alot of their pilots for the ME-262 out of the Chilrdrens army or something like that. So they where very young and inexperienced. So I guess, in a way, it would be good to make them do suicide missions, cause they where sure to be shot down sooner or later.
but i see the SS troops are very crazy about their nazi germany, maybe they are willing to sarafice themselves?

Did the SS serve in the Air force?

[Dani]

Waffen-SS was thought as a 4th branch of the Wehrmacht (the other: Heer=Army, Luftwaffe=Air Force, Kriegsmarine=Navy)

[South African Military]

Waffen-SS was thought as a 4th branch of the Wehrmacht (the other: Heer=Army, Luftwaffe=Air Force, Kriegsmarine=Navy)

Ok, so unless you train the SS troops to fly, they would be pretty useless in suicide attacks, which even for Germany would probably be a big waste of planes.

[FW-190 Pilot]

Waffen-SS was thought as a 4th branch of the Wehrmacht (the other: Heer=Army, Luftwaffe=Air Force, Kriegsmarine=Navy)

Ok, so unless you train the SS troops to fly, they would be pretty useless in suicide attacks, which even for Germany would probably be a big waste of planes.
i heard those trainning to suicide attack takes about a week

[Sturmtruppen]

yes,the waffen SS had more courage,but lufftwaffe had courage too,for example when they flighted in the aircraft/rocket (I don`t remeber it name) but it had incredible speeds.

[Caliber]

http://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/?article=749

http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/other/IAR_80s_nearest_to_and_farthest_from_camera_and_IA R_80Bs_somewhere_over_either_a_Romania_or_b_the_So viet_Union_in_1942.sized.jpg

[Mars]

Dornier 335 Pfeil!
The fastest piston engine fighter of the war.

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

My favorite German fighter is either the Focke-Wulf FW-190 or the Messerschimtt Bf-190

[Man of Stoat]

My favorite German fighter is either the Focke-Wulf FW-190 or the Messerschimtt Bf-190

Hmm, the Messerschmitt Bf-190 is a new one on me, could you post some info, particuarly how it´s different from the Bf-109?

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

My favorite German fighter is either the Focke-Wulf FW-190 or the Messerschimtt Bf-190

Hmm, the Messerschmitt Bf-190 is a new one on me, could you post some info, particuarly how it´s different from the Bf-109?

Sorry, I screwed up, it was supposed to be 109 instead of 190 :oops:

[Man of Stoat]

My favourite fighter is Cassius Clay

[planebldr]

Hi there I'm new here so if I do this wrong I apologize. My personal favorite aircraft is the Me-163 Komet. Granted its not the best looking aircraft, but I have a lot of respect for a guy to sit in a little crate that flies using a controlled violent chemical reaction, and then you loose your wheels on takeoff.
As far as looks go, the 109 in my book.

[Sturmtruppen]

Hi there I'm new here so if I do this wrong I apologize. My personal favorite aircraft is the Me-163 Komet. Granted its not the best looking aircraft, but I have a lot of respect for a guy to sit in a little crate that flies using a controlled violent chemical reaction, and then you loose your wheels on takeoff.
As far as looks go, the 109 in my book.
Hi,Welcome to the forum! :D ,nothing wrong mate.
enjoy the forum

[PzKpfw VI Tiger]

Hi there I'm new here so if I do this wrong I apologize. My personal favorite aircraft is the Me-163 Komet. Granted its not the best looking aircraft, but I have a lot of respect for a guy to sit in a little crate that flies using a controlled violent chemical reaction, and then you loose your wheels on takeoff.
As far as looks go, the 109 in my book.

A little off topic, but welcome, and the Messerschmitt Bf-109 is very flashy when it comes to looks :D

[Bloodstone Press]

I like the sleek and dangerous look of many of the late war era German fighters and interceptors like the Adder, especially the jet and rocket powered aircraft. I really like the E series of experimental jets they were working on at the end fo the war, too.

[HG]

Hi everyone. My name is Henk and I love German aircraft and other german technology during WW2. Please excuse any spelling misstakes I made I am not English.
Thank You

I also had the debate with the people of Planes of Fame Museum about the P-51 Mustang and the FW-190 and they said the P-51 and I said the FW-190. The FW-190 had exelant handeling and carried better guns like the cannons and mashineguns. The P-51 only carried machineguns and not cannons. The FW-190, He-162, Dornier 335, Me-163, Horten 229 flying wing and the Me-262 were all exelant German aircraft but if I were to chose one it would be the Dornier 335. It was faster than the FW-190 and had even better handeling than the Me-262 and also had nice Armament. The Me-262 and Heinkel 162 would be my second choice. The FW-190, Fw-190 D / FW Tu-152 are my best single prop fighter of the of the German airforce. The German airforce had some of the best technology of WW2 but they did look past great designs and ideas in the begining of the war.

The Heinkel 162 were also quite a number. It was a nice little jet fighter and did have better handeling thatn that of the Me-262. The US airforce did not have such great fighters than that of the German Airforce during WW2.

Henk

[Panzerknacker]

The US airforce did not have such great fighters than that of the German Airforce during WW2.

Well, even fanatic of the of the german militaria as I am , I wont say that the americans dont have any similar, the P-51 with merlin engines and the big Republic P-47 could be enough mach for any german fighter piston engined fighter of the 1943-44 period.

The americans probably use the heavy MGs in his planes due they never had to fight off big formations of bombers, the british faced the german bombers and they had to put the Hispano canon in service even too late for see service in the mid 1940.

and the Messerschmitt Bf-109 is very flashy when it comes to looks

Sure:

http://www2.cc22.ne.jp/~harada/Bf_109_G6/jpg/Bf_109_G6_2.jpg

http://www.europa1939.com/luftwaffe/cazas/Bf_109%20g.jpg

[mike M.]

FW 190 gets my vote, no real reason just like the looks.

[FW-190 Pilot]

FW-190's ability to shoot down bombers would make it the best planes germany had in world war 2

[Dani]

FW-190's ability to shoot down bombers would make it the best planes germany had in world war 2

:lol: :lol: :lol:
...why I'm not wondering about your choice? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[HG]

Yes the P-51 and the P-47 and even the P-38 were very good piston fighters but if the German pilots were well trained with the jet aircraft and had lots of feul and ammunition and lots of plane thy could have won the air war over Europe. The Me-109 was a wonder when the war broke out, but did you know that the Heikel 100 fighter were actualy faster and a better fighter. A example stands in the Planes of Fame Museum today. The Me-109 was chosen over the Heinkel 100 fighter. The Focke Wulff 190 is a lovely aircraft and I saw one at the Milatary Museum in Johannesburg South Africa when I was vissoting my family and it was exelntly preserved. It had the Defence of the Reich band in front of the tail and had cannon pods under the wings and had Lichtenstein radar so it must be a night fighter for attacking bombers. The Heinkel 219 night fighter was very fast and was one of the few German planes that shot down Mosquito night fighter/bomber.

What do you think about the Dornier 335 and the Heinkel 162 fighters?

Thank you for your opinion.

Henk

[Panzerknacker]

The Dornier was a very fast fighter-recon aircraft, the french ace Pierre Clostermann remeber in his book "Fire in the Sky" that once it try to cath a Do-335 but the german twin engined fighter give full trottle and "parked" his aircraft ( Clostermann flew an Hakwer tempest Mk-V)

Beside that the low numbers of production and the almost nill combats misions performed by the Do-335 denied any good comparative against allied fighter in air combat.

Probably it would be good against bombers due his heavy canon armament, in fact the 335 was one of the few german fighters that could handle the powerful 30 mm Maschinenkanone MK-103 firing trough the propeller hub.

MK-103 in Hs-129

http://www.luftwaffe3945.hpg.ig.com.br/mk103.jpg


The He-162 salamander was a product of the emergency fighter programe of 1944....and it was a very small fighter with most of this part made of wood.

I wont say that is a good plane, the only advantage is his speed and the relative low amount of raw material required for this construction.

http://www.aviationtrivia.homestead.com/files/He162_1.jpg

[HG]

Yes, the Dornier 335 did not have any combat but if there were more the war could have turned. The He 162 was very fast but did not have good construction in the underground factorys that they build them in.

The problem these days is that there are not alot of correct information of the HOrten 229 flying wing fighter that were a very great idea and almost made it if the war just did not end and the Hortens would be very famous people today, but you actualy never here about Von Braun and the Hortens allthough they turned the whole world upside down and put us in space and helped with the design of the US B-2 stealth bomber.

I read a book about German pilots during WW2 and the main charector in the book amonst the German pilots were Dieter that flew all the Me-109, Fw-190 and the Me-262 jet fighter. I do not know if he still live today but according to the book he went to Namibia of South West Africa. I will get the name of the book and I realy suggest reading it becose it give you a great idea of how it was being a German pilot during WW2.

Sorry for being of topic.

Henk

[Panzerknacker]

I read a book about German pilots during WW2 and the main charector in the book amonst the German pilots were Dieter

You mean Heini Dittmar or it was another?...in any case Dittmar also flew the Me-163 prototipe at 1004 km/h in mid-1941 :shock:

[Twitch1]

HG- the problem with many folks is that they really have never researched information from multiple sources about the aircraft of the WW 2 era. They own a couple books with the basic aircraft and some specs on them. There is so much more to learn! Many people are prejudiced against the German and Japanese "enemy" aircraft. We should be able to analyze all these aircraft without bias but that is not the case all of the time.

I can acknowledge the strengths of 109s and 190s and appreciate them even when I conclude that the P-51 was an outstanding plane which could fly all the way to Berlin protecting bombers, dice it up with the Luftwaffe equally and fly all the way home. That's why I feel the P-51 is a great plane.

The Do-335 had fantastic performance and the Go-229 was the fastest of the war with the most potential. The 162 would have been effective in the hands of an experienced pilot but not guys with little air time. As far as construction goes the Russians used lots of wood in their planes too.

It is so very hard to be clinical in comparisons. Just matching performance figures is pointless. And doing a "what if" scenario is hard since most people scoff at that and we know the Allies would have won no matter if the war was prolonged.

I don't know, maybe if we make a fantasy situation with a certain plane and pilot versus another we'd have parity. Years ago they used a computer to match old time boxers against modern day ones. Supossedly that proved something.

The truth is that on any given day any pilot in any plane pitted against a roughly equal combo can triumph.

[HG]

Please call me Henk.

Yes, the allies still would have won the war no matter what. The P-51 was realy a great fighter, but it actualy did not have a big combat record in Europe. It was named the best fighter of WW2 and the fastest prop fighter also, but if it comes to asking poeple wich fighter of WW2 is there best there will be lots of different asnwers. Some poeple go for the looks of the plane some for the Specs and the Looks then you get those just go for the Specs.

I love the German Aircraft, but it does not mean I do not sea the other wonders that were alos build.

Yes, a aircraft need a experienced pilot and the aircraft must be everything that the pilot needs to win in combat. The Germans locked th epilots and the material as we all know.

The srange thing is when you look at US aircraft, German aircraft and the Russian aircraft. The US aircraft have everything in the cockpit and even a bit more. The German aircraft had new technology and near the end of the war they had new technology but just had the basics. The Russian aircraft had everything in the cockpit, but it was simplifide.

I personoly I chose aircraft for there looks, combat record and there stats. I love it when there is someone that likes other aircraft then I can ask him why he chose that aircraft and tell him why I chose mine and threw that I learn how poeple look at aircraft from there poin of vew.

The biggest problem these days are the books on WW2 aircraft are sometimes the poorest I have ever seen and getting one that is great are quite rear. The Internet are a wonder, but there are so many bad information out there you must wach what you read.

Well I bought myself a book that are great information about German aircraft. The book is Janes Fighting Arcraft of WW2 and I recomend it for someone who wants to learn more about WW2 aircraft.

Well I am talking to much again.

Henk

[Twitch1]

Henk- While the Mustang was a later entry into the war I believe its combat record was great. I don't know if it is better than P-47s relative to missions and kills.

I recall talking to 26 victory ace Horst Petzler about the Fw 190. Though he put in lots of hours in the 109 he had a kindly, far away look in his eyes when he spoke of the 190, "Ah, the 190 had lots of ammo." He used it in ground attack and loved it.

I feel if I had to duel it out one on one against any plane, I'd like the FW too.

[HG]

The P-47 were regarded as a better aircraft/fighter than the P-51 but I don't know if it is so or not.

Yes, the Fw-190 were one of the best and were regarded as the second best fighter of WW2. I bought myself a PS2 game called Secret Wepons Over Normandy and it's got the Me-262, Me-109, Fw-190, Hurricane, Spitfire, Glosteor Meteor jet fighter, P-51 and more. The Fw-190 and the ME-262 are my best fighters in the game, more the Fw-190.

In a magizine that came out a few years ago Take Off had the storey of the Fw-190 and it describe the aircraft very good.

The problem with the Me-109 later in the war is that the pilots that flew it were not happy with the handeling and speed that they were used to in the begining of the war. like the Gustav series, but the Fw-190 were all in all better in combat.

I forgot all about the Heinkel 280 jet fighter thst did not have the bat quilatys of the Me-262. It had better handeling and the Heinkel jet engine were faster thatn the Junkers Jumo 004 jet engine that powerd the Me-262. It never made the production line because Messerschmitt were the favourite for the Goerig.

What do you think?

Henk

[Twitch1]

Every Luftwaffe ace I've talked to had a love for the 109 but acknowledged its limitations. The landing gear was poor and more fragile than the FW's. It also had more severe stall characteristics. The liquid cooled engine was a slight negative too compared to the 190's air-cooled. The Focke Wulf could tote more guns that the Messerschmitt and had better armor. Importantly, range was better in the 190.

They made do with the 109 before the 190 and like pilots everywhere they learned how to use the 109's strengths and stayed away from actions that showed up the weaknesses.

Willy Messerschmitt was favored by the Air Ministry and was close to Milch so he got contracts over Ernst Heinkel regularly.

[ss-standartanfuhrer]

no no no lads the best German aircraft was the messerschimitt bf109 any one knows that silly. the English aircraft is the supermarine spitfire MK1

[Twitch1]

Just curious, but why do you think the Spit Mk I was better than the Mk IX for example?

[HG]

No, never

The Me-109 was never the best fighter of the Luftwaffe during WW2 after the Fw-190. There were plans in 1938 to replace the Me-109 as the main fighter force of the Luftwaffe and it was main aircraft designer of Focke-Wulf Dipl-lng Kurt Waldemar Tank who designed the Fw-190 and became operational in 1941 and showed that the British Spitfire Mk1 and later the Spitfire Mk IX were no mach for the Fw-190 that were superior. The Me-109 were not so much loved as the Fw-190 were loved. It was reliable, strongly builded, had great handeling and also had better guns than that of the Me-109.

All in all the Fw-190 kicked ass.

Henk

[Panzerknacker]

The Me-109 were not so much loved as the Fw-190 were loved.

I really like the Fw-190 but this is a complicated statement, in the Eastern Front many aces favored the Bf-109, like Erich Bakckhorn and Erich Hartmann. Even the Me-262 was offered to Hartmann...he refuse to fly the new jet fighter and keep his well know BF-109G-14.

[HG]

Yes, I have read somewhere that he did that. What I meant with my remark was that the later models of the Bf-109 was not so much loved as the early models. I do not know a lot of the Eastern air battles so I can not talk much about them.

Henk

[Panzerknacker]

The reason for that are simple, despite the continuing improvement of the russian planes the Bf-109 was not really outmachted by any Soviet desing, in the west the things was diferent.

[Panzerknacker]

3D art about the Emil flown by Adolf Galland in the early years of JG-26.

http://gunpoint-3d.com/images/view/bf109e.r.jpg

http://gunpoint-3d.com/images/view/bf109e.f.jpg

http://gunpoint-3d.com/images/view/bf109e.l.jpg

All images extracted from:

http://gunpoint-3d.com

[Twitch1]

Panzerknacker- very nice images! Many of the top aces I've talked to felt so accustomed to the 109 that for all its faults they loved it and excelled while flying it.

[Firefly]

I like the 109, I feel the Germans got the best out of it during the war continuosly upgrading it as the years went by. It did however suffer from the very great flaw of the narrow undercarriage, so much so that a very high proportion of losses occurred in landings. Its still one of the icons of WW2 though.

[HG]

Firefly you are right when you say that many Bf-109 was lost during landings. I also read that many aircraft was also lost during training and also a lot of pilots. I read once that the one cadet was taking off and did not pull up in time and was to low and crashed into the feul tanks and was insinarated.

The Emil was a great model of the Bf-109 and was loved by all of the pilots who flew it. When they got the Gustav version they said they rather fly the Emil than the Gustav.

Panzerknacker great pictures thank you.

Henk

[Panzerknacker]

Panzerknacker- very nice images! Many of the top aces I've talked to felt so accustomed to the 109 that for all its faults they loved it and excelled while flying it.

Yes, even it wasnt the best fighter, those guys were so familiarizated with the Messer that it can leave it, for example Backhorn flew many mission with the FW-190D but achieved no kills ( even the Dora was by far superior to his old Bf-109 G-5).

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/images/barkhorn4.jpg

A "experte" that had not that problem was Priller with tranfered very sucessfully his Bf-109F-4 to the FW-190, it score 101 kills flying only in the western European teatre.

http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/jg26/fw190a8jg26priller-1_1.gif

Anyway when you have to face the Bombers the FW his his superior armament would be my choice.


did however suffer from the very great flaw of the narrow undercarriage

The Spitfire had a even narrow undercarriage...but you dont hear nobody complaining about it.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/photos/detail_spitfire1_14.jpg

[festamus]

When compared to the Hurricane's nice wide track people would've complained about the Spitfire's undercarriage! (the bearings being outboard with the landing gear raising in over - with the Spitfire of course vice-versa and thus narrower)

Perhaps the Bf109 was no worse than the Spitfire, but airfields the Luftwaffe operated from in France (and elsewhere) were more austere and uneven than the home stations of Fighter Command? Don't know whether that'd be true, but it's a possibility I suppose!

EDIT: Worth noting that the barely modified "Seafire" did get a reputation for landing problems onto decks due to it's narrow track.

[Panzerknacker]

Perhaps the Bf109 was no worse than the Spitfire, but airfields the Luftwaffe operated from in France (and elsewhere) were more austere and uneven than the home stations of Fighter Command? Don't know whether that'd be true, but it's a possibility I suppose!

in France austere ??? you should see one of the in the Russian estepe.


Perhaps the Bf109 was no worse than the Spitfire

My point exactly. The landing in the Spifire was difficult also.

I think that the Mk-XII with his powerful griffon was the first to became superior to the Me-109 especially at low altitudes.

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Gladwin-Simms/3600L.jpg

[Twitch1]

Panzerknacker- you are correct. The French facilities were luxurious compared to the Eastern Front. There was a never ending supply of wine and more than a few nice French girls plus much more moderate weather. You mest remember how it was a well know joke that German personnel who got on the bad side of a commander feared being sent to the Russian Front. :D

[Firefly]

The Spit did have a wider undercarriage than the ME-109 and Spits worked out of some of the same French Airfields. The ME-109's undercarriage was so narrow as the wings couldnt take the weight of the aircraft (which in the Spit it did).

This made for a very tricky ground handling aircraft, although I still believe it was one of the most significant fighters of the war.

[Twitch1]

The Spit was truly one of the most significant planes of all time.

[1000ydstare]

As far as I am aware, the only Spit that was tricky to land was the shortlived Seafire. A navel variant of the Spitfire for carrier use.

The Spit had amazing speed and manouvreabilty because it was actually a racing plane design for the Schneider cup (a pre-war sea plane race). The design being modified to carry weapons and the removal of the floats.

I think in about 1943 the floats were put back on for a short period before being classed as redundant. So that Spits (and Hurricanes) could be catapulted off merchant ships for air defence. They would then fly back to base. The convoys never stopped, not to pick up their air defenders nor to pick up stricken boats sea men.

The floats went back on in about '46 for a Spitfire maritime recce and rescue variant. The plane would land to drop inflatable dingies and rations. (there was a lancaster varient, that had a bomb-bay conversion to drop lifeboats at about the same time).

The Spit XV(?)(can someone confirm) was one of the few prop planes that could persue and shoot down V-1s.

Twitch wrote:
You mest remember how it was a well know joke that German personnel who got on the bad side of a commander feared being sent to the Russian Front.

No joking about it mate!!! A (one way) posting to the Eastern front was often handed out for all manner or reasons. Including being the junior (or least connected) rank in a 3 way tug of love!!!

Also, certainly in the earlier war years, units were posted back west to France for abit of R and R.

My favourite aircraft of the war?... The Fairey Swordfish (aka the Stringbag).

[Panzerknacker]

The Spit did have a wider undercarriage than the ME-109 and Spits worked out of some of the same French Airfields. The ME-109's undercarriage was so narrow as the wings couldnt take the weight of the aircraft (which in the Spit it did).

This made for a very tricky ground handling aircraft, although I still believe it was one of the most significant fighters of the war.

Sorry Firefly but you are wrong, only check any frontal picture of a Spit and a Me-109 for comparison and you ll see that the Me-109 had a wider undercarriage even not much.

1000ydstare

The Spit XV(?)(can someone confirm) was one of the few prop planes that could persue and shoot down V-1s.

Maybe you are talking about the Mk-XII with 1750 hp Griffon, and the Mk-XIV with 2035 hp Griffon. Very fast aircrafts at low altitude.

[Firefly]

Your right Panzerknacker, the later versions of the 109 did have a wider track, however in comparison to a Spitfire the 109's centre of gravity was farther back, this combined with with the narrow track landing gear made braking and one-wheel landings (thats one wheel touching before the other - not only 1 wheel available) much more of a hazard for the 109. The two elements together made for a much less forgiving landing than on the Spitfire!