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View Full Version : Some video of a restored PAK 40 being fired, and a description of same.



tankgeezer
06-16-2014, 09:17 AM
You Tube video giving a basic tour of the German Anti-Tank gun, and some info, and of course it being fired. Very impressive. http://youtu.be/T7fhBm1ouSU

Samoax
06-16-2014, 03:09 PM
would't want to be in a tank with one of those creeping around :-?

navyson
06-16-2014, 06:13 PM
Definitely couldn't keep your position a secret.

Rising Sun*
06-17-2014, 03:25 AM
I do not like that firing button. Would hate to be firing it if the spades aren't properly dug in, or in soft soil etc.

Why no lanyard?

Rising Sun*
06-17-2014, 03:37 AM
You Tube video giving a basic tour of the German Anti-Tank gun, and some info, and of course it being fired. Very impressive. http://youtu.be/T7fhBm1ouSU

Like many people outside, and in, the US, I have some difficulties with US gun laws.

Then again, listening to the various weapons being fired in that video (is there a heavy machine gun?); watching what looks like minor artillery or mortars exploding downrange behind the speaker; and a brief look at small artillery to the left of the gun as the camera pans near the end of the video, I confess to a serious degree of envy in not being allowed to set up my own personal amusement park where I could responsibly* blast the shit out of the countryside with any calibre I can get my hands on.

*This is in contrast to something I read back in the 1960s where a couple of American farm boys were reported to have bought an army surplus artillery piece which they failed to use responsibly by, in a most un-neighbourly act, firing it at another farmer ploughing his land on a tractor. Fortunately lack of training produced lack of accuracy.

Rising Sun*
06-17-2014, 04:16 AM
I do not like that firing button. Would hate to be firing it if the spades aren't properly dug in, or in soft soil etc.

Why no lanyard?

Upon reflection, is the crew member who fires it also the bloke who inserts the next round, so he has to be in that position?

tankgeezer
06-17-2014, 10:40 AM
Upon reflection, is the crew member who fires it also the bloke who inserts the next round, so he has to be in that position?
I'm guessing here as I don't know the crew, or drill requirements for this gun, but with A.T. guns of this type the man aiming it remains in his position throughout the engagement, since the rate of fire needs to be kept as high as possible for them to survive. There would be loaders, and others handling ammo, and seeing to the other details. Since the aimer/ gunner has to remain on the sights to acquire, and track targets, the button or lever arrangement might be the best thing to use. Lanyards were useful in keeping the crew out of harms way when firing a gun that had poor recoil control, and was given to jumping, and rolling. Or were just so large that being near the breach ring was dangerous.
As to civilians owning Artillery, the weapons are regulated at the Federal, and State levels, and require a comprehensive process to have one transferred and costs $200 per transfer (this process is repeated each time it is sold) The current wait time is about 8 to 12 months. Ammunition is not regulated beyond that of any other firearm unless its explosive. The Gun itself is classed as a "Destructive Device non explosive" and the explosive munitions are classed "Destructive Device, explosive" ( this classification also includes live grenades of most types, mines, and Aerial bombs) Each round would require the same regulatory process, and have to be serial numbered, each carrying the same $200 transfer Tax. Then when they are used, there is a form to complete, and submit detailing their being expended, and by serial number. Although antique Artillery is not regulated in this way, explosive munitions for them would be.
It is fun to attend a big gun shoot, I think you would enjoy it. this is typical of a Mortar shoot, the ammunition being largely old Bowling Balls fired for score. http://youtu.be/DaA8xLvFl5Q

Rising Sun*
06-18-2014, 05:35 AM
I'm guessing here as I don't know the crew, or drill requirements for this gun, but with A.T. guns of this type the man aiming it remains in his position throughout the engagement, since the rate of fire needs to be kept as high as possible for them to survive. There would be loaders, and others handling ammo, and seeing to the other details. Since the aimer/ gunner has to remain on the sights to acquire, and track targets, the button or lever arrangement might be the best thing to use.

Never seen crewed anti-tank gun fired, but what you say makes sense.

Aimer gets it on target, has hand on firing button, fires it instantly when moving target acquired. Really no other way to do it.

I still don't like the idea of being that close to an artillery piece that has potential for serious recoil if spades aren't dug in properly, particularly if I have my eye glued to the sight when it fires.

Rising Sun*
06-18-2014, 05:47 AM
It is fun to attend a big gun shoot, I think you would enjoy it.

Mate, I would ****ing love it. Makes tractor pulls pale into nothingness.


this is typical of a Mortar shoot, the ammunition being largely old Bowling Balls fired for score. http://youtu.be/DaA8xLvFl5Q

Looks like a hole in one contest for old blokes who can't swing a golf stick any more, and can't afford the lurid clothes exclusive golf clubs favour ;) :D

tankgeezer
06-18-2014, 09:07 AM
But would we not look Dashing, and Dapper ?

Rising Sun*
06-18-2014, 09:12 AM
But would we not look Dashing ?

Yes, but not attractive.

Actually, a bit on the creepy side.

tankgeezer
06-18-2014, 09:18 AM
Yes, but not attractive.

Actually, a bit on the creepy side.
Agreed, changed the image... But there's still good Whisky at the Club House.

Rising Sun*
06-18-2014, 09:33 AM
Bring home Marine Sgt. Andrew Tahmooressi

Pity he wasn't carrying just drugs, or he'd have been ignored.

Nice to know that Mexico, that bastion of freedom and rule of law where drug cartels routinely use a vast array of weapons to murder, dismember and display the bodies of whoever gets in their way, has a legal system that gets all legalistic over a geographically challenged Yank with about the standard armoury for a small time Mexican drug dealer.

Rising Sun*
06-18-2014, 09:37 AM
Agreed, changed the image ...

Yes, better, but they're still a bit odd. Especially the bloke on the right, who looks like he's trying to drop a chocolate log out the back of his kilt.

tankgeezer
06-18-2014, 09:52 AM
Yes, better, but they're still a bit odd. Especially the bloke on the right, who looks like he's trying to drop a chocolate log out the back of his kilt. Standard Scot battle Tactics I believe...

Rising Sun*
06-18-2014, 10:03 AM
Scots have limited battle tactics beyond an overwhelming desire to wear patterned skirts in very cold climates which produces a cold rage to kill their enemies, as illustrated by their limited national threat levels.

'The Scots have raised their threat level from "Pissed Off" to "Let's get the Bastards." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.'

To put this in perspective, one has to consider the threat levels of other nations.


ALERTS TO THREATS IN EUROPE: BY JOHN CLEESE

by John Cleese - British writer, actor and tall person

The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent events in Syria and have therefore raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." The English have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

The Scots have raised their threat level from "Pissed Off" to "Let's get the Bastards." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Collaborate" and "Surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France 's white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country's military capability.

Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans have increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels .

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to "She'll be alright, Mate." Two more escalation levels remain: "Crikey! I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!" and "The barbie is cancelled." So far no situation has ever warranted use of the last final escalation level.

A final thought - " Greece is collapsing, the Iranians are getting aggressive, and Rome is in disarray. Welcome back to 430 BC".
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/926647-alerts-to-threats-in-europe-by-john-cleese

tankgeezer
06-18-2014, 10:17 AM
Pity he wasn't carrying just drugs, or he'd have been ignored.

Nice to know that Mexico, that bastion of freedom and rule of law where drug cartels routinely use a vast array of weapons to murder, dismember and display the bodies of whoever gets in their way, has a legal system that gets all legalistic over a geographically challenged Yank with about the standard armoury for a small time Mexican drug dealer.
True, I doubt that he would have drawn any attention were he seen so armed on the streets of Mexico. And carrying drugs into Mexico is much akin to carrying Coals to Newcastle. Its plain sad that the approaches to the Border crossing are poorly laid out, He had thought he had turned away from the crossing, but was instead caught in the funnel like approach way, which allowed no opportunity for him to turn around. His best course at the time would have been to take his property, and abandon the vehicle, at least he wouldn't be in Mexican Custody. To my mind there is no real reason for him have been held, perhaps the Cartels who seem to run that Country want to make a trade for some of their people that we have locked up. (seems a trend here in the U.S.)

tankgeezer
06-18-2014, 10:23 AM
Scots have limited battle tactics beyond an overwhelming desire to wear patterned skirts in very cold climates which produces a cold rage to kill their enemies, as illustrated by their limited national threat levels.

'The Scots have raised their threat level from "Pissed Off" to "Let's get the Bastards." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.'

To put this in perspective, one has to consider the threat levels of other nations.


http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/926647-alerts-to-threats-in-europe-by-john-cleese Egads, I'm laughing so hard it hurts..

Rising Sun*
06-19-2014, 09:37 AM
To my mind there is no real reason for him have been held, perhaps the Cartels who seem to run that Country want to make a trade for some of their people that we have locked up. (seems a trend here in the U.S.)

The recent trend makes one wonder if the US is, in simplistic terms, getting value for money the exchanges. And, more importantly, losing the plot on how to deal with extortionists and kidnappers.

Leaving aside questions about whether or not Sgt Bergdahl deserved to be captured or released, it is a poor policy to exchange prisoners in these circumstances.

It's the same well intentioned but fatally flawed process which releases a hostage in return for a benefit, which leads only to taking more hostages.

I'd hate to be in the position of making the decision, but the decision always has to be: No negotiation, no release of your prisoners we hold for good reason.

And God help you if we find where you are holding our countryman as your hostage, and in the meantime God help you and everyone who looks like you that we will take out at every opportunity anywhere on the planet we can find them.

Oh, No. Sorry, we can't do that. Only you can, because you're terrorists and we're democratic idiots who'd prefer to be sitting ducks shot on the water rather than getting thoroughly into your lot in ways you'd understand on your own low standards of conduct,

JR*
06-19-2014, 10:18 AM
Native Scots battle tactics were, indeed, pretty limited. The ideal was to place your force on a slope overlooking the enemy, and (as the latter were having breakfast) charge down on them yelling "Claibh Mór". This could be quite effective, as General Sir John Cope and his Redcoats discovered at Prestonpans. "Fortunately", the despised English quickly harnessed the aggression and élan of the Highlanders to more conventional forms of combat.

Love the John Cleese-related piece. But, one might ask oneself, what would happen if we in the West went beyond the point of being "very cross"? Problematic, I think ... Yours from the Old Bazaar in Cairo, JR.

tankgeezer
06-19-2014, 10:21 AM
Most folks in these parts, myself included, agree with you RS*. We're all shaking our heads over the Bergdahl exchange. Both the Congress, and Senate are considering their options for action subsequent to the release of the prisoners outside of required procedure. The Administration, and some other parts of the Government has turned itself into a bad Reality show. Perhaps its time I took up opal mining in the outback. ;) :)
And in consideration to JR's last concerning John Cope, a lively tune.. http://youtu.be/HRNOSr587Aw

Rising Sun*
06-20-2014, 07:16 AM
Perhaps its time I took up opal mining in the outback.

Nah, it's hard, hot, generally not profitable, and, at least in the 1960's and 1970's when I knew a little about it, populated by a bunch of crazies, many with questionable military or related histories from WWII in Europe, with a tendency to use explosives and other weapons to settle minor disputes or just for practical jokes.

http://www.michaelbgreen.com.au/andamooka-boomtown-blues

forager
07-05-2014, 06:02 PM
Every move by a crewman was carefully choreographed by repetitive training.
This for effectiveness of the piece and safety of the crew.
Quick reloading, target aquisition and firing.
Guess what? Military hardware is dangerous and not for kids.
Friend of mine told of a guy at the Artillery School who got his head in the way of a recoilling breech.
They marched the class by his body to see the effect of not paying attention.

They probably are using black powder and the blast is probably not that realisatic.
The dusty area helped with the effect.
These were high velocity pieces.
I have been around a bit of artillery and there is simply a difference.
Violent recoil and little smoke.
There is s U-toob of a Stug IV firing a blank that is just as bad.

Interesting on the broken promise regarding activation of the piece.

imi
07-14-2014, 12:05 PM
nice video