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View Full Version : I know this is a 25pr, and I think its Armour Piercing



Chunky
09-24-2013, 05:49 PM
Hi

I think its armour piercing, buy I'm not that sure, the are a lot of markings on it, which are: on the base, 25 pr I.T. then P, J.2, LOT 1, 1.41, on the centre plug, there is, P7.IM, 3/4 O.R., with a W.D. Broad Arrow, then on the side: what looks like, HK, 6615, and a W.D. Broad Arrow. the centre plug screw in anticlockwise, leaving a hole?, what was the idea of this, any ideas.

Chunky


67466747

tankgeezer
09-24-2013, 08:34 PM
The disk on the back of the shot may be (and I say "MAY" ) be an obturation seal of some type, this would be useful if the driving band was pre-engraved , or did not have a seal portion included in it. If the large screw in the center is just a screw, and threads into the shell with no evidence of a fuse, then its just an A.P. shot. Some 25 pdr rounds were made to discharge pamphlets, and propaganda which was done by blowing off a cover from the back of the shell, spilling out the propaganda Du jour. The left hand threads of the screw would tighten against the right hand spin of the shot, keeping the plate in place. I don't have a lot of resources for British munitions, so can't help much beyond this. Where's Tony Williams when you need him ?? :)

Chunky
09-25-2013, 09:13 AM
The disk on the back of the shot may be (and I say "MAY" ) be an obturation seal of some type, this would be useful if the driving band was pre-engraved , or did not have a seal portion included in it. If the large screw in the center is just a screw, and threads into the shell with no evidence of a fuse, then its just an A.P. shot. Some 25 pdr rounds were made to discharge pamphlets, and propaganda which was done by blowing off a cover from the back of the shell, spilling out the propaganda Du jour. The left hand threads of the screw would tighten against the right hand spin of the shot, keeping the plate in place. I don't have a lot of resources for British munitions, so can't help much beyond this. Where's Tony Williams when you need him ?? :)

Hi tankgeezer

It has got the brass driving band, that enabled it to spin, when fired, this one weights a ton "well ok not a ton:)", apart from the hole, its made of solid metal, I would think it would be to heavy for pamphlets, the depth of the: 5 1/4 inch, depth of plug: 1 1/4 inch, and 3/4 wide, see photo.

Chunky

6748

leccy
09-25-2013, 02:20 PM
Heres a few bits that might help

10th Down

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ammotable10.htm

http://nigelef.tripod.com/ammo.htm

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/3457-25-pdr-photos

tankgeezer
09-25-2013, 03:27 PM
Hi tankgeezer

It has got the brass driving band, that enabled it to spin, when fired, this one weights a ton "well ok not a ton:)", apart from the hole, its made of solid metal, I would think it would be to heavy for pamphlets, the depth of the: 5 1/4 inch, depth of plug: 1 1/4 inch, and 3/4 wide, see photo.

Chunky

6748
It does appear to be a solid A.P. Shot, a propaganda shell would be hollow as a politician's promise. Is the part of the shot visible in this photo the actual shot, or a disk applied to the base of it? Its a very nice example in any case.

Chunky
09-25-2013, 03:37 PM
Heres a few bits that might help

10th Down

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ammotable10.htm

http://nigelef.tripod.com/ammo.htm

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/3457-25-pdr-photos

Hi leccy

Thank you for your help, I can only open up your first link?, so I'm still unsure if its armour piercing, or not a, has I have said, its solid metal, so there's no chance of it exploding on impact, more I would say, penetrate on impact, "unless", the hole/recess, in the base is filled with some-sort of explosive.

Chunky

Chunky
09-25-2013, 03:46 PM
It does appear to be a solid A.P. Shot, a propaganda shell would be hollow as a politician's promise. Is the part of the shot visible in this photo the actual shot, or a disk applied to the base of it? Its a very nice example in any case.

Hi tankgeezer. Been having trouble? with my post to leccy, had to off Forum, now back on, I can't see any thing that looks like shot or a disk. but then, I don't know what I'm looking for:oops:

tankgeezer
09-25-2013, 04:37 PM
Hi tankgeezer. Been having trouble? with my post to leccy, had to off Forum, now back on, I can't see any thing that looks like shot or a disk. but then, I don't know what I'm looking for:oops:
Shot is a solid projectile, for anti-armor use, Shell is a hollow projectile that contains some manner of filling, (explosive, shrapnel, gas, phosphorous ) I did not mean to say that your round was loaded with shot pellets The base of your A.P. round is marked, I was wondering if that part was the actual round, or something fastened to it with that center screw. Sorry for the confusion. (I think I'm confusing myself now ) :)

Chunky
09-27-2013, 07:23 AM
Shot is a solid projectile, for anti-armor use, Shell is a hollow projectile that contains some manner of filling, (explosive, shrapnel, gas, phosphorous ) I did not mean to say that your round was loaded with shot pellets The base of your A.P. round is marked, I was wondering if that part was the actual round, or something fastened to it with that center screw. Sorry for the confusion. (I think I'm confusing myself now ) :)

No problem, I'm always confused:, I did not take it, that you meant it was filled with shot pellets, can't see that a attachment could be used, when the plug is screwed in, it would then leave a empty space!, If we knew what was placed into this space, then I think it would a help to identifying what round it his.

tankgeezer
09-28-2013, 11:44 AM
Hey Chunky, sorry to be so long in replying. I had just wanted to be clear about what I was posting, the round you have is just a plain A.P. Shot, the hole drilled in the base would in this round generally be fitted with a trace element, a standard thing for service Anti-Tank munitions. Yours has only a fairly short filler screw that does not utilize the entire depth of the threaded hole. In the case of an A.P.H.E. there would be a larger cavity above the drilled hole that would hold a bursting charge. This would be backed up buy a combination base fuse and trace element. The idea behind the APHE is that after the round gets through the armor, the base fuse initiates the bursting charge, causing damage, and casualties from the splinters, and blast. The pics are cross sections of APHE, and a plain solid AP shot.

Chunky
09-28-2013, 04:34 PM
Hey Chunky, sorry to be so long in replying. I had just wanted to be clear about what I was posting, the round you have is just a plain A.P. Shot, the hole drilled in the base would in this round generally be fitted with a trace element, a standard thing for service Anti-Tank munitions. Yours has only a fairly short filler screw that does not utilize the entire depth of the threaded hole. In the case of an A.P.H.E. there would be a larger cavity above the drilled hole that would hold a bursting charge. This would be backed up buy a combination base fuse and trace element. The idea behind the APHE is that after the round gets through the armor, the base fuse initiates the bursting charge, causing damage, and casualties from the splinters, and blast. The pics are cross sections of APHE, and a plain solid AP shot.

Hi tankgeezer, No problem, thank you for all your kind help on this, at least I now know what it is. Been doing a refurb on my M1 garand bayonet, when I bought it, the parts inside the grips, that attach it to the rifle were missing, waiting for the parts.

tankgeezer
09-28-2013, 05:40 PM
I don't know if you can do business for such parts etc. with a U.S. company, but you might have a look at these places. They sometimes have hard to come by parts for all sorts of stuff.

www.sarcoinc.com/miscellaneous.html‎

www.ima-usa.com/‎

Chunky
09-29-2013, 11:16 AM
Thank you for the links, parts are on the way from America, don't know if you collect or not!, I've been into it for many years. new to American items though, hoping to do a D-Day exhibition next year, and a WW1 exhibition. the WW1 at a school.