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Rising Sun*
12-18-2010, 07:59 AM
Is the release of this (short version to allow viewing without having to register for adult Youtube) justifiable?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0&feature=player_embedded#!

tankgeezer
12-18-2010, 11:56 AM
Espionage is just that, regardless of whether its the Rosenbergs, or Julian Assange and his cronies doing it. There can be no justification for the release of this material if it was classified. Aside from that, this video is much the same as all the others which have been released, If a photographer feels it important to go with a group of armed men in a war zone, then he must assume the risk of doing so. Mr. Assange seems to think his actions are a college prank or something, I hope he also realizes that his actions may cause governments to feel threatened, and that at some point, unpleasantness may follow.

Nickdfresh
12-18-2010, 06:28 PM
The problem that I have is that the original video released was heavily edited to the extent that it sanitizes insurgent activity in an effort to portray the Apache pilots as ruthless killers callously massacring civilians when that clearly wasn't the case...

Another version.

From the link:

This video contains footage NOT SEEN in wikileaks 17 minute version. IF YOU WANT CONTEXT WATCH THIS ONE.

The video released by Wiki Leaks is EXTREMELY misleading, and propagating it as “murder” is borderline criminal. Their 17 minute version edited out any mention of hostile gunfire on the part of insurgents for the purpose of defaming U.S. Defence Forces. WikiLeak head Julian Assange has since reluctantly admitted to AK-47 and RPGs being present. To their credit, they did release a full 39 minute version, but for “research” purposes only. Their edited version tells a very different story.

0:26 The “Black van” dropping off possible insurgents.

0:46 “We got a target fifteen coming at you, it’s a guy with a weapon.”

1:05 “One of them has a weapon.”

1:27 Guy carrying AK-47, and other with RPG (no way it a tripod) that had previously fired on U.S. Troops. WikiLeak video distracts you with letter box about a camera Bag).

3:53 “Roger, be advised, there were some guys popping out with the AKs behind that dirt pile. Break.”

4:25 “Uh, location, I have about 12 to 15 dead bodies. Where else were you taking fire from?”

4:34 They had AK-47s and were to our East. So, where we were taking small arms fire, over.

4:59 “I also wanted to make sure you knew that we had a guy with an RPG crouching around the corner, Getting ready to fire on your location. That’s why we requested permission to engage.”

5:17 (IMPORTANT) “Six this is four, I got one individual looks like he’s got an RPG round laying underneath him. Break.” (Note: Four was at the scene of the shooting and found an RPG, of course wikileaks left that out).

5:43 “ I can hear small arms fire from your engagement area…”

6:10 “Right about where we engaged? Yeah, one of them with that RPG or whatever.”

6:19 “He’s got a weapon. Got an RP–, uh AK-47.”

6:34 “Roger, we have another individual with a weapon.”

The WikiLeaks transcription is poor in areas, as well. For instance, one part in their version they claim one guy said “F—-ing *****”. It was not “*****, it was “break”. Not sure the word before it, sounded cut off.

USE OF CAMERAS: Should also note that a tactic used in battle is to take pictures using high powered lenses to gather intel on troop location, size, and armament. Photos would then be shared with the RPG carrier for more precise target acquisition. Not saying this was the case here, but that does happen. Tragic as it is, one should know better than to aim what looks like a weapon at ground troops with surveilling Apache Copters overhead, especially when standing next to insurgents carrying an RPG and AK-47s.

Collateral Murder Rebuttal Video Here (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c1b_1270800204) courtesy of Liveleaks...

Rising Sun*
12-19-2010, 06:56 AM
Espionage is just that, regardless of whether its the Rosenbergs, or Julian Assange and his cronies doing it.

It remains to be seen if Assange is guilty of anything.

Our Prime Minister, who within days of taking office after ousting the previous Prime Minister demonstrated that she is a ****wit of global proportions by making stupid statements about things she couldn't deliver, is currently backpedalling on her initial assertion that Assange was a criminal. http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/law-not-broken-but-wikileaks-illegal-pm-20101217-190lm.html


There can be no justification for the release of this material if it was classified.

I don't know about that.

Without implying that the event in this case is a bad thing, as a general principle there are times when bad things are classified but it is in the public interest for them to be revealed.


I hope he also realizes that his actions may cause governments to feel threatened, and that at some point, unpleasantness may follow.

Correct, on both points.

But down here the revelations show that our national government and its members have been consistently misleading us about various important matters such as the progress of the effort in Afghanistan while happily telling the truth to American diplomats.

These bastards weren't elected to tell the truth to a foreign power while lying to their own people.

They hate being exposed as liars, cheats and crooks (like that's a revelation for a politician!) so they turn on Assange. Talk about shooting the messenger!

Assange is probably a self-seeking arsehole of the first order, but so far he's shown more independence, principle and courage than the corrupt turds supposedly running my nation. Although both lots are coming off a low base.

So far as Australia is concerned, if there's any treachery it's been our national politicians licking America's arse but shitting on their own people, as ****ing usual.

Rising Sun*
12-19-2010, 07:12 AM
The problem that I have is that the original video released was heavily edited to the extent that it sanitizes insurgent activity in an effort to portray the Apache pilots as ruthless killers callously massacring civilians when that clearly wasn't the case...

But isn't that the nature of much so called 'news'?

Things are edited or represented for dramatic effect rather than to explain things in full context, whether it's a pro or anti piece on war or welfare bludgers or asylum seekers / illegal immigrants.

For example, it'd be a rare week that I don't see one or more TV news 'reports' about a demonstration by some mob or other which looks like a fair number of people are present, but in reality it's to do with camera angles and audio creating the impression that 20 or 30 noisy people represent a large segment of the population rather than a tiny group of numbskulls pushing their own barrow and ably assisted in doing it by news media desperate for footage of anything approximating activity.

Add in the opportunity to judge people you don't know in circumstances you don't understand and haven't experienced but which are presented in simplistic terms to produce a black / white situation and it's a winner every time.

As with the video in this case.

stano666
12-21-2010, 07:56 AM
I wanne salute rising sun.
And greetings to all.
stano666 :)