PDA

View Full Version : Rare WW2 Eastern Front Image



jungleguerilla
08-03-2010, 06:18 AM
I was terribly got a boner in this one:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oIAhQMTG-dU/TBtcMvM_-LI/AAAAAAAAFNI/jfpjjBF5UWo/s1600/rare-ww2-second-world-war-pictures-images-german-army-wehrmacht-russia-013.jpg

:shock:



More images to come...

flamethrowerguy
08-03-2010, 08:49 AM
Then you'd have to see a shrink for sure...

jungleguerilla
08-03-2010, 08:51 AM
On the other hand, HOW DID THAT PLANE GOT THERE?! 0_0. rofl!

Rising Sun*
08-03-2010, 09:12 AM
On the other hand, HOW DID THAT PLANE GOT THERE?! 0_0. rofl!

Possibly the same way Hanna Reitsch and von Greim landed near the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin in the dying days of the Nazi regime and flew out a few days later under Soviet attack. By courage and flying skill.

VonWeyer
08-03-2010, 09:12 AM
It looks like it could have been towed, because the wings look like they are folded for easy tranportation...a good guess!

jungleguerilla
08-03-2010, 09:19 AM
Here's another one:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oIAhQMTG-dU/S-1UzUk0r5I/AAAAAAAAE28/8ok1YcXCBpU/s1600/german-soldiers-ww2-second-world-war-pictures-images-photos-illustrated-006.jpg


I really don't know what kind of Heavy MG is that.

VonWeyer
08-03-2010, 09:24 AM
With all that flame coming from the muzzle it could be mistaken as a flamethrower!;)

jungleguerilla
08-03-2010, 09:28 AM
With all that flame coming from the muzzle it could be mistaken as a flamethrower!

Haha! Well, that thing looked like it has a very long calibre for a World War 1 MG. And it is too thick and long for a flamethrower mounted on the rear of a halftrack. Darn Germans making it hard to figure out what that weapon is! :D

Uyraell
08-03-2010, 10:14 AM
It is a FlameThrower. The SdKfz 251/16 carried 3 Flammwerfer (Flammwerferen?), two mounted behind small shields as seen in the image, a 3rd attached to a hose, approximately 15 metres long, for use outside the vehicle. The crew carried MP 40's aboard the halftrack, but it is correspondingly rare to find a 251/16 with an MG34 or MG42.The "barrel shroud" on each mounted Flammwerfer was the size the image shows, and was hardened to protect the Flame tube proper from bulletstrike by enemy small arms.
Also, such pictures of a 251/16 as posted here are, as far as I'm aware, reasonably rare. This is only the second such I've seen in well over 30 years.

Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

jungleguerilla
08-03-2010, 10:21 AM
Another Image:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oIAhQMTG-dU/S6jY7tY0AFI/AAAAAAAADcE/osLx4WZIzg0/s1600-h/german-soldiers-wehrmacht-third-reich-nazi-germany-eastern-front-russia-1941-incredible-history-images-pictures-photos-russian-front-ostfront-020.jpg

German Arty Battery Leader having a sermon. :D

flamethrowerguy
08-03-2010, 10:25 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-281-1110-10%2C_Russland%2C_Sch%C3%BCtzenpanzer_mit_Flammenw erfer.jpg
http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/archives/barchpic/search/_1280848814/?search[view]=detail&search[focus]=1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-281-1110-18%2C_Russland%2C_Sch%C3%BCtzenpanzer_mit_Flammenw erfer.jpg
http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/archives/barchpic/search/_1280848814/?search[page]=2

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-281-1110-03%2C_Russland%2C_Sch%C3%BCtzenpanzer_mit_Flammenw erfer.jpg
http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/archives/barchpic/search/_1280848814/?search[page]=5

Uyraell
08-03-2010, 02:14 PM
Glad I'm not on the receiving end of those Flammwerferen.
Many Thanks for posting those, FTG. :)

Artilleryman holding onto the triggercord is a good pic, jungleguerilla.
Think I saw one like that in a reproduction of "Signal" in the mid-1980's. Thank you for posting that pic.

Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

jungleguerilla
08-04-2010, 12:35 AM
Another Weird WW2 German Weapon.

VonWeyer
08-04-2010, 01:19 AM
Thanx for the bundesarchive pics FTG.

Uyraell
08-04-2010, 09:30 AM
Another Weird WW2 German Weapon.

Granted, to see a BESA as field mount is a little unusual, but many Czech weapons were employed by various Waffen SS units throughout WW2. I'm not certain why the MG would be described as "weird" though: it was in fact one of the best designs of its' decade.

Side Note: "Signal" was a German Armed Forces news magazine, published throughout WW2. IN the late 1970's, early 1980's there was, for a time, an industry which sprang up to reproduce "authentic copies" of the original WW2-issued editions of various of the German Armed Forces news-magazines, "Signal" being the most commonly seen, though both the Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine also had their own news-magazines.

Kind Regards, Uyraell.

Nickdfresh
08-04-2010, 10:52 AM
Granted, to see a BESA as field mount is a little unusual, but many Czech weapons were employed by various Waffen SS units throughout WW2. I'm not certain why the MG would be described as "weird" though: it was in fact one of the best designs of its' decade.
...

Yeah, wasn't the BESA usually mounted on fixed defenses?

flamethrowerguy
08-04-2010, 02:29 PM
Czech ZB vz.37 or MG 37(t) as the Germans called it, (t) = tschechisch, Czech.
Mostly used by Waffen-SS units.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/35547-4/MG+37+_t_1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-F016203-16%2C_Russland%2C_MG-Stellung_am_Bug.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-F016203-16%2C_Russland%2C_MG-Stellung_am_Bug.jpg

Chevan
08-05-2010, 12:44 AM
Possibly the same way Hanna Reitsch and von Greim landed near the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin in the dying days of the Nazi regime and flew out a few days later under Soviet attack. By courage and flying skill.
But he hasn't flew away after all, having it's wing demounted :)
Actualy it was a usial transportation the easy firgter like I-15/16 by the road/railway

Uyraell
08-05-2010, 09:33 PM
Yeah, wasn't the BESA usually mounted on fixed defenses?

It was usually employed in either fixed defenses or mounted as a tank machine-gun, co-axial or hull gun in British tanks, such as the Cromwell, Crusader, Valentine.
It was also a very sound and reliable weapon, by no means as prone to "cooking off" a round as some of the other in-service machine-guns.

FTG is correct that it is a Czech weapon, and I called it BESA as the British-produced version differed very little from the Czech original, which is why I tend to use the name BESA as a generic.

Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

Uyraell
08-05-2010, 09:39 PM
But he hasn't flew away after all, having it's wing demounted :)
Actualy it was a usial transportation the easy firgter like I-15/16 by the road/railway

My friend, forgive my ignorance here, but was it not the case that the Chaika I153 Bis was almost the only of that Polikarpov family that did not have easily detachable wings due to the repositioning of the fuselage ribs and keel longerons in the lower fuselage?
I seem to recall that with the I153 Bis the detachable wing idea was deliberately sacrificed to speed production of the revised I15 design.
Do you have any information that supports this?

Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

jungleguerilla
08-05-2010, 10:40 PM
The German "War Machine" must rest too. ;)
4578

Chevan
08-06-2010, 12:15 AM
My friend, forgive my ignorance here, but was it not the case that the Chaika I153 Bis was almost the only of that Polikarpov family that did not have easily detachable wings due to the repositioning of the fuselage ribs and keel longerons in the lower fuselage?
I seem to recall that with the I153 Bis the detachable wing idea was deliberately sacrificed to speed production of the revised I15 design.
Do you have any information that supports this?

Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.
I/m not that much informed, my friend in this field. However you probably right about I-153 "Chaika".Their wings might be not so easy detachable as wing of I-15 Bis.
I can't found out the photo of transported I-153, but if to look at this one.
http://waralbum.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/20090703-i-15.jpg
You may to see that one of lower wing is not conected .Probably this I-153 was in repair before the airfield was lost.I heard all of modification of I-15/16 had an detachable wing .

Uyraell
08-06-2010, 01:04 AM
I/m not that much informed, my friend in this field. However you probably right about I-153 "Chaika".Their wings might be not so easy detachable as wing of I-15 Bis.
I can't found out the photo of transported I-153, but if to look at this one.
http://waralbum.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/20090703-i-15.jpg
You may to see that one of lower wing is not conected .Probably this I-153 was in repair before the airfield was lost.I heard all of modification of I-15/16 had an detachable wing .

I15 Bis 2, series 2 or 3. I think this because the cooling inlets in the engine cowling were altered for the M82 and M83 (a later modification of the M82) engines.
I'd always assumed the pic you show was battle-damage inflicted as the field was attacked, but having now looked closer, I'd agree the lower wing was detached rather than removed in damage.
The late-series 153's had straight upper wings, while the gull-wing shown here was common to the I15 and early series I153's.
About the only visual distinctions are the cooling inlets I noted earlier, and the width of the undercarriage track (ie: the distance between the main wheels).

I have video of a rebuilt I153 in flight, and it is a joy to see. If you're interested, look for the "Warbirds Over Wanaka" series of videos.
It is a tiny place near Queenstown in the South Island of NZ. There is an Airshow there every 2nd year, and the 1996 Airshow featured both the I153 Chaika and the I16 "Ishak"/"Rata".
Tim Wallace, the man who had these rare aircraft rebuilt in Russia, has a small air museum there, known as "The Alpine Fighter Museum". I met Tim briefly, a few years ago, and a couple of his pilots. I have sat in the Hurricane Tim had rebuilt.

Many Thanks for your kind reply Chevan my friend,
Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

Chevan
08-06-2010, 06:01 AM
I have video of a rebuilt I153 in flight, and it is a joy to see. If you're interested, look for the "Warbirds Over Wanaka" series of videos.
It is a tiny place near Queenstown in the South Island of NZ. There is an Airshow there every 2nd year, and the 1996 Airshow featured both the I153 Chaika and the I16 "Ishak"/"Rata".

I found it
Rebuilt I-16 on the air on it's site (http://www.warbirdsoverwanaka.com/slide.php?branch_id=51&id=112)
and video of I-153 Chaika (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BLVI2yBRX8&feature=related)
Restored plains actualy looks amazing. And that obsolet chagging to hear.


Tim Wallace, the man who had these rare aircraft rebuilt in Russia, has a small air museum there, known as "The Alpine Fighter Museum". I met Tim briefly, a few years ago, and a couple of his pilots. I have sat in the Hurricane Tim had rebuilt.

.
I'm very curious who is an owner of that brilliant restored Jak-3?
(http://www.warbirdsoverwanaka.com/slide.php?branch_id=51&id=80)Do you accidentally know dear sir?

Uyraell
08-06-2010, 07:29 AM
I found it
Rebuilt I-16 on the air on it's site (http://www.warbirdsoverwanaka.com/slide.php?branch_id=51&id=112)
and video of I-153 Chaika (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BLVI2yBRX8&feature=related)
Restored plains actualy looks amazing. And that obsolet chagging to hear.

I'm very curious who is an owner of that brilliant restored Jak-3?
(http://www.warbirdsoverwanaka.com/slide.php?branch_id=51&id=80)Do you accidentally know dear sir?

Glad you enjoyed seeing them, my friend :)

Tim Wallace owns the Jak 3 (in NZ we write it Yak).

He paid for that to be rebuilt along with 5 I-16 Ishaks and the I-153.

As I understand it, 4 of the I-16's were sold to collectors, and two of them went to the USA.

There is a television documentary about Tim travelling to Russia, to the original factory where the Polikarpovs were manufactured, and meeting the technicians who were rebuilding his aircraft. Some of these were the same men who had built the original airframes/aircraft just prior to the Great Patriotic War.
As is characteristic of Russian folk, Tim was invited to their homes for meals, and is said to have thoroughly enjoyed their hospitality and his time in Russia.

At the time I met Tim, he had only just acquired the Jak3 airframe, and arranged for it to be rebuilt.
That was also done in Russia, by original Jak technicians, and about the only change from a normal Jak3m is that the engine is an American Allison V1710 (F Series, I think). This is because the are no usable Klimov inline engines to be found in modern Russia, nor almost anywhere else in the world. I know for a fact Tim would have searched hard for a Klimov.

Tim has had offers for the Jak3m, but as far as I know, has no intention to sell it.
However, an identical aircraft was also rebuilt at the same Jak factory, and is in the hands of an American collector, so it is not beyond possibility that in the future another pair may be built in the same manner.

I regret I don't have more to tell you Chevan my friend, but I have to confess I have not in recent years kept up at all with the events of Tim's Fighter collection.

Warm, Kind, and Respectful Regards Chevan my friend, Uyraell.

P.S: I do have a magazine article about flying that Jak. If you're keen, I'll try to dig it out, and type it into here for you.

Chevan
08-08-2010, 09:38 AM
Glad you enjoyed seeing them, my friend :)

Tim Wallace owns the Jak 3 (in NZ we write it Yak).

He paid for that to be rebuilt along with 5 I-16 Ishaks and the I-153.

As I understand it, 4 of the I-16's were sold to collectors, and two of them went to the USA.

There is a television documentary about Tim travelling to Russia, to the original factory where the Polikarpovs were manufactured, and meeting the technicians who were rebuilding his aircraft. Some of these were the same men who had built the original airframes/aircraft just prior to the Great Patriotic War.
As is characteristic of Russian folk, Tim was invited to their homes for meals, and is said to have thoroughly enjoyed their hospitality and his time in Russia.

At the time I met Tim, he had only just acquired the Jak3 airframe, and arranged for it to be rebuilt.
That was also done in Russia, by original Jak technicians, and about the only change from a normal Jak3m is that the engine is an American Allison V1710 (F Series, I think). This is because the are no usable Klimov inline engines to be found in modern Russia, nor almost anywhere else in the world. I know for a fact Tim would have searched hard for a Klimov.

Tim has had offers for the Jak3m, but as far as I know, has no intention to sell it.
However, an identical aircraft was also rebuilt at the same Jak factory, and is in the hands of an American collector, so it is not beyond possibility that in the future another pair may be built in the same manner.

I regret I don't have more to tell you Chevan my friend, but I have to confess I have not in recent years kept up at all with the events of Tim's Fighter collection.

Warm, Kind, and Respectful Regards Chevan my friend, Uyraell.

P.S: I do have a magazine article about flying that Jak. If you're keen, I'll try to dig it out, and type it into here for you.

You know i found an article about Tim's visit to Novosibirsk ( company "Aviarestavracij") where he got a contract for few restored aurcraft in 1992.
http://tayga.info/press/2008/11/03/~93530
BTW except the Policarpovs and Yak-3 , Tim aslo has received the three IL-16 Shturmovics.
The company "Aviarestavracij" restores the ww2 aircraft for foreign collectors.Recently they sold the fully repaired Mig-3 for Arab Sheikh

Uyraell
08-09-2010, 08:25 AM
You know i found an article about Tim's visit to Novosibirsk ( company "Aviarestavracij") where he got a contract for few restored aurcraft in 1992.
http://tayga.info/press/2008/11/03/~93530
BTW except the Policarpovs and Yak-3 , Tim aslo has received the three IL-16 Shturmovics.
The company "Aviarestavracij" restores the ww2 aircraft for foreign collectors.Recently they sold the fully repaired Mig-3 for Arab Sheikh

:D There had been tales about the Sturmoviks for a few years, but I had not until now heard anything concrete.
Many Many Thanks Chevan my friend, for that.
Spasiba, bratets :) :)

As time passed I lost contact with a lot of my aviation friends, life went in other directions, so to speak.
I drifted out of contact, and haven't really done much since to regain the contact, because at this stage in life, I have a load of other priorities to tend to before aviation matters.
It is nice to find good news at times though, and I sincerely Thank you for that, because it has truly made me smile, sitting here.

Warm, Kind, and Respectful Regards Chevan my friend, Uyraell.

Sunny Image
01-04-2013, 10:28 PM
"Being a Hero is really hard to say but easy to do. But being a Soldier less than a Hero is easy to say but hard to do." this is quite right, the relationshio between they too are so complicated, and the above images remind me a lot.