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View Full Version : Which rifle is the best of these three



Haresplitter
01-30-2010, 11:16 AM
Which rifle do you think is the best and for what reasons.

Nickdfresh
01-30-2010, 11:45 AM
Um, which rifle do YOU like best --and for what reason?

I'm sure if you've done a search here, you'd have seen this threads been done several times...

Haresplitter
01-30-2010, 11:59 AM
oops!! I didn't think of search for previous threads on this topic.

But any way I like the Springfield. Ive never shot one but my great grandpa was a Marine in WW2 and served on Midway,Bouganville and couple other islands with the M1903. But what reallly neat is that he was up in Canada and had the chance to shoot one when he was 84 years old and was consistanly hitting a softball sized target at 600yrds. He hadn't touched one since he was about 23 years of age. I know the marines stressed marksmanship but if an 84 year old man can shoot that good after 61 years that has to be a very good rifle.

Andrew

PS at the time he was shooting about 1 shot every 5 seconds.:shock:

Deaf Smith
01-30-2010, 11:10 PM
The '03A3.

Why?

Mainly the sights. The Mauser is a great gun for combat, and the '03A3 is a Mauser copy, but the '03s sights are so far ahead of the Mauser for low light shooting and snap shooting that really there is no comparison.

And quite alot of combat does happen in low light, not to mention many chances for a snap shot.

The Mosin Nagant is at best third place. The sights are not great, the safety is terrible if you have to use it fast, and the rimmed cartridge is definatly subpar (yes I'm well aware of the .303, but the rimmed cartridge is not a top-of-the-line design for the period.

The Historian
02-10-2010, 07:19 PM
I've heard good stories about maintenance and reliability for the Springfield. The Mosin-Nagant was great in that it was cheap and easy to make and didn't take a lot of effort to teach someone to maintain it well enough. The Kar98 probably shares some of the qualities of the Springfield, as they are both derived from the Mauser family of rifles of the 1880's/90's. I've also read about the Springfield's phenomenal accuracy, which the Kar98 sacrifices slightly in favor of a shorter overall length.

imi
03-01-2010, 01:06 PM
M1 Garand is the ww2 strongest rifle I think

oakrodent
03-02-2010, 07:16 AM
The '03A3.


The Mosin Nagant is at best third place. The sights are not great, the safety is terrible if you have to use it fast, and the rimmed cartridge is definatly subpar (yes I'm well aware of the .303, but the rimmed cartridge is not a top-of-the-line design for the period.

I'm sorry but I will have to definitely have to disagree with you on this point. the 7.62x54r is the oldest cartridge still in regular combat service with several major armed forces in the world used in both their sniper rifles and machine guns! Not bad for a round that was introduced in 1891. Yes the slugs and powder loads have changed over the years but the casing hasn't. Portions of this casing was way ahead of its time. The case is significantly wide in relation to its length and it features a rather sharp shoulder angle. This design is being used again with the new Short Magnum rifle cartridges.

The Mosin-Nagant is a popular rifle action to wildcat for vary large caliber rifles because of its magazine for the rimmed rounds it fires and its robust action.

Say what you want about the Mosin-Nagant, but the 7.62x54r is a very capable round than as it still is today.

Deaf Smith
03-02-2010, 08:22 PM
It may be the oldest, but come on.. the 30-06 was developed in .... 1906! And untill recently we used the 30-06 in our sniper rifles. Same goes for the 12.7x99mm (that's the M2 .50). It's been around a long time. And the 11.45x23 (known as the .45 ACP) has been here since 1911.

Yes the 7.62x54r is capable, but sub-par. Far better cartridges for military use have been developed and used since then.

Deaf

tankgeezer
03-02-2010, 10:28 PM
The Pistol was adopted in 1911, but the .45 acp cartridge was available in 1905. The Colt model 1905 was chambered for it.

oakrodent
03-03-2010, 05:51 AM
It may be the oldest, but come on.. the 30-06 was developed in .... 1906! And untill recently we used the 30-06 in our sniper rifles. Same goes for the 12.7x99mm (that's the M2 .50). It's been around a long time. And the 11.45x23 (known as the .45 ACP) has been here since 1911.

Yes the 7.62x54r is capable, but sub-par. Far better cartridges for military use have been developed and used since then.

Deaf

What is sub par with this round? Just because it has a rim? Yes, the rim requires the rounds to be placed slightly ahead of the round under it but with this extra material it allows a much better extraction especially in a machine gun. The average muzzle velocity of the 7.62x54r is 2,700 the 30-06 is 2,675 the 303 is 2,400 The 7.62x54r has better ballistics that the 30-06.

What rounds? The .223? the 7.62x39 These rounds are not even in the same class. These rounds are way outclassed in knock down power. The 30-06 is stilled used in today's US military. The .223 rnd is a joke. It has a high muzzle velocity but with such a light slug looses velocity energy quickly ( knock down power ) With the 7.62 and the 30-06 both have comparable slugs. That is why the M-14 is being reissued to US troops, they need the knockdown power.

Please back up your claim with some kind of hard evidence. I can just blurt out an answer. Were are the facts? And no the Mosin-Nagant is by far not my favorite rifle. I put it slightly higher than the Chauchat and T-99

I beleive the Colt 1905 was the first to use the 45acp round not the 1911. I have a 1904 in 38 cal and a 1905 in 45 cal
The 50cal was developed as a WW1 anti-aircraft round but I think it entered service too late to be used

Valkyrie
06-25-2010, 06:43 AM
That was a close vote,but I would go with the KAR.

forager
06-25-2010, 08:04 AM
The issue is not the ammo, although technically it can be demonstrated to be somewhat inferior to the others.

The MN is a bit better than a club or stone ax.

Far below Mausers and Spflds in quality and design.
The Spfld sight is a bit over designed for combat, but it was a time when long range shooting was an ongoing concept.

They are crude and can be unreliable due to actions siezing up from dirty or fouled chambers and the terrible safety.

The others are far easier to use and much more reliable.

I have owned varieties of each over the years.

Typokitty
06-30-2010, 10:59 PM
Springfield M1903A3
WHY ?
Its the only one I'v heard of . *hangs head in shame*

pdf27
07-01-2010, 01:05 AM
If you're talking about bolt-action battle rifles, why not include the .303 Lee-Enfield in the list?

Rising Sun*
07-01-2010, 07:48 AM
Why not include the Arisaka which, in its various forms, served not only with the Japanese but with the Royal Navy, Russia, China and others? http://www.gunslot.com/pictures/65x50mm-arisaka

These narrow fixed choice polls are a waste of time and bandwidth.

diverdoc
07-07-2010, 12:49 AM
i own all 3. the KAR shoots best, but the springfield is a close second. the MN is pretty battle used, and that may negatively affect it, but it shoots for crap compared to the other two.

Unstopable
07-07-2010, 04:26 PM
kar98k of course!

leccy
07-09-2010, 06:55 PM
There are many other rifles that were used in WW2 so why only pick 3, why not pick the main rifle from each of the main protagonists and discuss the points for and against.

For me the Lee Enfield No4 I have fired 20 aimed shots (charger reload) in a minute with this weapon, it has a very easy and smooth bolt action and was used until the 90's in the UK Forces (re-chambered to 7.62 NATO).
The No 5 Carbine version had a bit of a kick though.

Panzerknacker
07-19-2010, 03:54 PM
Ill go for the springfield, is compact and has a very good handling, obviously the charm of the Kar 98 and the sinister look of the Mosin are heavy things when you put this 3 togheter and might influence more than one person.

angform
08-13-2010, 11:12 AM
Kar98K!!!

imi
10-17-2010, 10:00 AM
I vote a fourth another: M1 Garand
very powerful rifle,my personal comment is the reload system of the gun maybe is not the best in some situation.

The Fiendish Red Baron
10-18-2010, 07:05 AM
None of them.

It all comes down to the man shooting the rifle.

imi
10-18-2010, 08:45 AM
Or the SVT 40 the ideal chioce for me,half automatic&gas actuation

Coraline000
12-21-2010, 06:52 AM
i think it will be Kar98

agramer1966
12-21-2010, 11:37 AM
Kar98 ... used one in yugo-war in 91, very accurate.

Deaf Smith
12-21-2010, 06:56 PM
I vote a fourth another: M1 Garand
very powerful rifle,my personal comment is the reload system of the gun maybe is not the best in some situation.

Yea I never understood that 'Carcano' style clip system. I mean we did have the BAR with a 20 round mag, so why not a 8 or 10 shot magazine?

And I do have a complaint with the M1 Carbine. The 15 round mag is so flimsy!

Oh, well I guess hind sight is aways 20/20.

Deaf

Ronnyguitar
01-31-2011, 11:36 AM
i go for the Kar98 why lol ? it's the only one i used from the three mentioned , i had the 8x57is version (hunting deer in northern germany) but it was very accurate, though awfull loud...

jamestallakson
05-06-2011, 03:31 PM
1903 by far, longer range and American made we pulled off some great shots with that rifle. the k 98 is my second favorite of the list, it was a very well made rifle.

Luft46
05-08-2011, 09:18 PM
I don`t know wich one is the best but the Kar98 is the most versatil. Until today this is a very reliable platform to make custom built rifle.
I had two of them in 7mm and 308. They are very strong and precise rifle.

forager
05-11-2011, 12:37 PM
Define versatile.
'03s were quite commonly seen as sporters, even through the 60s.

The 03A3 has the best sights of the 3.

gewehrpatrone
06-24-2011, 07:31 AM
Define versatile.
'03s were quite commonly seen as sporters, even through the 60s.

The 03A3 has the best sights of the 3.

There are a boat load more parts,literature and experience using Peter/Paul Mauser actions for custom guns than any other. Mauser was selling top grade hunting rifles in the 1920`s competing against H&H, Purdey, etc. The Springfield was a modified Mauser action that the US government paid royalties to Mauser for the right to manufacture until 1909 I think. Read your history! There are more Mauser action rifles in the world than any other. Just about every caliber one can think off has been either factory offered or retrofitted onto a Mauser action. The `50`s-`60`s saw more sporterizing than any other era, of course Springfields were present but not nearly as desired as a Mauser action. Again do your homework. You`ll be surprised.

Mit fruendlichen Grusen,
gewehrpatrone

tankgeezer
06-24-2011, 07:55 AM
Beyond being a firearm, Mauser had little in common with Purdy, or H&H, Manton etc. Mauser's offerings were more aligned with the firearms manufactured in Belgium. Although this is just my opinion. ;)

Der Toten Kaiser
07-08-2011, 09:30 PM
Isn't it the mosin-nagant 1890?

tankgeezer
07-08-2011, 11:04 PM
Isn't it the mosin-nagant 1890?
1891, the 1930 may be a typo,perhaps meant to read 91/30 which is a later modification to the 1891. The Mosin-Nagant was produced in many variations, and by a few different Countries.

Der Toten Kaiser
07-09-2011, 12:08 AM
Oh, thanks

forager
07-09-2011, 08:45 AM
I have read a lot of history and owned several examples of each. Plus many others.

One reason for the use of mausers as sporters was the vast numbers in many configurations manufactured and available on the civilian market.
Many many more than Springfields. Hence more to modify.
I repeat that in military configuratin, the later 03s with peep sights were much more accurate. Same same the later Enfields.
A good many 03s met the customisers ax and I see little difference in quality or performance.
MNs are a bit up the chain from stone axes, but nothing I'd want as a personal weapon.
I realise 03s are not german, and therefore not holy relics, but I'd use one if I had to.

Der Toten Kaiser
07-09-2011, 11:55 AM
Damn, I think I commited a mistake in this poll...

leccy
07-09-2011, 02:37 PM
Der Toten Kaiser

It is a rather limited poll anyway, just 3 rifles from the dozens used by the main combatants. No clarification either as to why and where each would be best, ie accuracy, reliability, ease of use etc

Der Toten Kaiser
07-09-2011, 03:07 PM
yeah...

gewehrpatrone
07-11-2011, 05:22 AM
I have read a lot of history and owned several examples of each. Plus many others.

One reason for the use of mausers as sporters was the vast numbers in many configurations manufactured and available on the civilian market.
Many many more than Springfields. Hence more to modify.
I repeat that in military configuratin, the later 03s with peep sights were much more accurate. Same same the later Enfields.
A good many 03s met the customisers ax and I see little difference in quality or performance.
MNs are a bit up the chain from stone axes, but nothing I'd want as a personal weapon.
I realise 03s are not german, and therefore not holy relics, but I'd use one if I had to.

Originally Posted by forager
Define versatile.
'03s were quite commonly seen as sporters, even through the 60s.

The 03A3 has the best sights of the 3.

Listen pal not trying to get into a fight here but you asked the question "define versatile".

I define versatile as Mauser over `03 hands down.
Live with it.

Mit fruendlichen grussen,
gewehrpatrone

tankgeezer
07-11-2011, 07:26 AM
This is the book definition of versatile. "adjective. Competent in many things; able to turn easily from one subject or occupation to another" I have in my time had many of each of the '03, and 98K, and tested each one before they were put on the shelf of my shop. They are in most ways neck, and neck. though I did find the '03 to be more inclined to make a tighter group than the 98, that quality being even more pronounced at greater ranges (more than 300 yds) This is for the as issued military rifle. Either action would make a good foundation for an effective sporting rifle, this depends of course on the competency of those who did the conversion work.

jasenwunder
07-13-2011, 12:11 AM
Was there ever any question? K98!!

leccy
07-13-2011, 12:33 PM
Although not on the list, as a battle rifle that can be used for sniping as well I would still favour the No4 Lee Enfield.

Rapid fire with a very smooth and quick to operate bolt, 10 round magazine charger loaded, reasonably accurate as standard with selected ones making very good snipers rifles.

MJ1
08-12-2011, 11:29 PM
Think outside the box.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/95327c96.jpg