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herman2
12-18-2009, 02:37 PM
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/740565--outrage-over-contemptible-theft-of-iconic-auschwitz-sign?bn=1

so, what You think? is it a big deal? is it only a sign? or is it more than that?
Keep in mind..only an $1800 reward..hmmm....if it were such a valuable part of history, you would think that there would be a $100,000 reward...don't ya think!?
Outrage over 'contemptible' theft of iconic Auschwitz sign

WARSAW, Poland–The infamous iron sign bearing the Nazis' cynical slogan "Arbeit Macht Frei" that spanned the main entrance to the former Auschwitz death camp was stolen before dawn Friday, Polish police said.
The heavy 5-metre-long, 40-kilogram iron sign at the former Nazi death camp in southern Poland where more than 1 million people died during World War II was unscrewed on one side and torn off on the other, police spokeswoman Katarzyna Padlo said.
The theft of the sign bearing the German words for "Work Sets You Free" brought immediate condemnation from Jewish leaders in Poland and internationally.
"It's contemptible," Lorraine Sandler, chair of the UJA Federation Holocaust Centre of Toronto, told the Star's Cathal Kelly on Friday. "It shows a lack of respect, a lack of compassion, a lack of understanding by people who have no boundaries in their behaviour.
"For Jews, this is another hateful event that I don't tolerate, that I don't accept. We're so used to such disgusting, discouraging events that I don't resort to knee-jerk hysteria."
The sign disappeared from the Auschwitz memorial between 3:30 a.m. and 5 a.m., Padlo said. The thieves appear to have known the area well, she added.
Police have launched an intensive hunt, with some two dozen criminal investigators and a search dog sent to the grounds of the vast former death camp, whose barracks, watchtowers and ruins of gas chambers still stand as testament to the atrocities inflicted by Nazi Germany on Jews, Gypsies and others.
The thieves likely used a ladder to remove the sign from the 5-metre-high posts on which it sat, Auschwitz museum spokesman Jaroslaw Mensfelt said.
It then appears to have been carried some 300 metres (to an opening in a concrete wall around the site that had been secured with barbed wire, he said.
Neither Padlo nor Mensfelt would comment on whether there was surveillance footage of the theft, citing the ongoing investigation.
Padlo said the dog led police to a site outside the memorial wall where the sign appeared to have been set down, leaving an imprint in the fresh snow, and to another site by the road, where it appears to have been loaded on to a vehicle.
An exact replica of the sign – made by the museum after World War II – was immediately hung in place of the missing original to fill in the empty space, but all visitors were being informed about the theft, another museum spokesman, Pawel Sawicki, said. The museum had the replica made to hang during times when restoration work has been required on the original, Sawicki said.
Sawicki called the theft a "desecration" and said it was shocking that the tragic history of the site did not stop the thieves.
"We believe that the perpetrators will be found soon and the inscription will be returned to its place," Sawicki told The Associated Press.
Padlo said there are no suspects but police are pursuing several theories. A 5,000-zloty ($1,800) reward has been offered to anyone who can help track down the thieves.
The original sign was made in the summer of 1940 by non-Jewish Polish inmates of Auschwitz in an iron workshop at the camp, Sawicki said.
Poland's Chief Rabbi Michael Schudrich said he had trouble imagining who would steal the sign, and condemned the theft.
"If they are pranksters, they'd have to be sick pranksters, or someone with a political agenda. But whoever has done it has desecrated world memory," he told the AP.
"Auschwitz has to stand intact because without it, we are without the world's greatest reminder – physical reminder – of what we are capable of doing to each other," Schudrich said.
The slogan "Arbeit Macht Frei" was also used at the entrances to other Nazi camps, including Dachau and Sachsenhausen. The long curving sign at Auschwitz is, however, perhaps the best known.
Between 1940 and 1945, more than 1 million people, mostly Jews, were killed or died of starvation and disease while carrying out forced labour at the camp, which the Nazis built in occupied Poland.
Today the site is one of the main draws in the region for visitors from abroad and Polish students, with more than 1 million visitors a year.
However, the barracks and other structures, which were not built to last many decades, are in a state of massive disrepair 65 years after the camp was liberated by the Soviet army, and Polish authorities have been struggling to find funds to carry out conservation work. This week, Germany pledged C60 million ($91 million) to a new endowment that will fund long-term preservation work – half the estimated amount that officials with the Auschwitz memorial museum say is needed.
It was the first major act of vandalism at the site, though Mensfelt said there have been incidents of graffiti, including swastikas scrawled on an office building.
Many of the former Nazi camps in Germany and Poland are now memorial centres like Auschwitz, and have been targets of neo-Nazi vandalism in the past.
Says Sandler, of Toronto's Holocaust Centre: "It is only a sign. It's foolish people who would think they can wipe out the event by wiping out its symbols."

boyne_water
12-19-2009, 01:25 AM
It is a sign of the contempt certain parts of society have for history and the feelings of others.
I was in Krackow last year and went to Auswitz on a tour.While the guides were very good and knew thier stuff i just felt that it was a very commercial thing,

Also in Krackow the locals didn,t seem to care a great deal about the events that took place there.Unless of course they could make a few quid out of it.
There are also quite a few nazi types attached to the local soccer team Krackovia.Perhaps these thugs could be asked about the theft(and none to gently).

flamethrowerguy
12-19-2009, 04:32 PM
I'm pretty curious about the outcome of the investigations. I already read all kinds of theories: an anti-Semitic act by Polish Neo-Nazis (:confused:), some scrap dealer liked to make some extra money with the app. 40 kilograms of steel, some boozed teenagers were out for vandalism...we'll see.

flamethrowerguy
12-19-2009, 05:35 PM
I'm pretty curious about the outcome of the investigations. I already read all kinds of theories: an anti-Semitic act by Polish Neo-Nazis (:confused:), some scrap dealer liked to make some extra money with the app. 40 kilograms of steel, some boozed teenagers were out for vandalism...we'll see.

...and another one, the theft was supposed to be ordered by a solvent, probably foreign collector.

Schuultz
12-20-2009, 12:50 PM
It's probably in the basement of some sheik in Saudi Arabia by now. :mrgreen:

Also, I think the reward has gone up to $24,000 for any hints that lead to the rediscovery of the piece by now.

Frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't been stolen before, already. But then again, who knows what happened during communist times...

flamethrowerguy
12-20-2009, 04:06 PM
Also, I think the reward has gone up to $24,000 for any hints that lead to the rediscovery of the piece by now.

Apparently they pretty fast came to the conclusion that the original reward of 5000 Zloty/1800 US-$/1200 Euro was kind of ridiculous.

Schuultz
12-20-2009, 05:31 PM
Well, yeah. Think about it, this is the entry sign to one of the most notorious places in world history.

It's easily worth the twenty-fold of that...

Chevan
12-21-2009, 02:58 AM
"It's contemptible," Lorraine Sandler, chair of the UJA Federation Holocaust Centre of Toronto, told the Star's Cathal Kelly on Friday. "It shows a lack of respect, a lack of compassion, a lack of understanding by people who have no boundaries in their behaviour.
"For Jews, this is another hateful event that I don't tolerate, that I don't accept. We're so used to such disgusting, discouraging events that I don't resort to knee-jerk hysteria."

We don't really need the jewish knee-jerk hysteria caused by the act, that was probably realized by hooligans or skinheads.Those people show lack of comparision and respect to anyone who don't look like they are.

Rising Sun*
12-21-2009, 04:14 AM
We don't really need the jewish knee-jerk hysteria caused by the act, that was probably realized by hooligans or skinheads.Those people show lack of comparision and respect to anyone who don't look like they are.

So far there is no evidence that the theft of the motto was aimed at Jews, despite the alleged thieves having been arrested.


The Poles accuse the Jewish representatives of trying to stir up old disputes and of acting out of "personal ambition" and many admit that they believe Auschwitz should be seen as more than simply a memorial to the Jewish dead. "We too suffered enormously in the camp," said Tadeusz Zaleski, a Polish survivor living in Cracow. "I think it is wrong to say Auschwitz is synonymous with the Holocaust. It was more complicated than that."

Many Christian Poles see Auschwitz as the place where most of the brightest members of their society were murdered. Of the 150,000 Poles held there between 1940 and 1945, 75,000 were killed. Other victims included 20,000 gypsies, 15,000 Soviet prisoners of war and 25,000 people of other nationalities. "None of us disputes that others suffered at Auschwitz," said Mrs Zisman. "But nobody suffered as we did." That, say Jewish groups, is the point, and it should be acknowledged unequivocally. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/half-a-century-on-polands-jews-still-suffer-at-auschwitz-1569247.html

Jews were perhaps 90% of those killed at Auschwitz.

Jews were only a third of the population of Palestine in 1948 and Arabs two thirds, but I don't hear the Zionists saying that the Jewish dispossession of the Arabs after that date is worthy of note even though the Jews dispossessed three times the proportion of Palestinians as the Nazis killed Jews at Auschwitz.

From which I deduce that 90% of Jews killed at Auschwitz gives Jews the right to dispossess the other 10% of their suffering and history and exercise exclusive control over it, and that one third of Jews in Palestine in 1948 gives Jews the right to dispossess the dominant Arab two thirds of the population of their suffering and history and everything else the Jews could get their hands on and exercise exclusive control over all that as well.

From which it follows that some Jews take the view that the only interests which matter are theirs, and that the Holocaust is just a convenient crutch for justifying their own racist policies, actions and violence towards the Palestinians.

Which is pretty much consistent with the way the ****ing Zionists have behaved since 1948 in Israel and internationally, and the rest of the world has allowed them to behave, and largely because the Jews keep playing the irrelevant Holocaust card as if they were the only group which suffered under the Nazis.

BAH! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Chevan
12-21-2009, 04:58 AM
So far there is no evidence that the theft of the motto was aimed at Jews, despite the alleged thieves having been arrested.

That's true.
The mass media political emotional speculations has not been supported yet by the police investigation.
I/m afraid, as it usially happaned during the loud political events - nobody will care to find and caught the real criminals ( who migh to be teeenagers) - the autorities just put the process into the profitable political way for them.


Jews were perhaps 90% of those killed at Auschwitz.

It's not fair yet..
I heard that the at least half of prisoners of camp were non-jews. About 200 000 of Soviet pows, 150 000 poles and up to 50 000 of other nations.
More over - you will be shocked - but in jenuary 1945 , after liberation , there have been found still alive about 7,500 prisoners - all of them are the JEWS.
That makes to conclude that others nation have been totally annihilated .But few thousand jews have survived .
Doesn't it look strange for the "JEWISH" death-camp?


From which it follows that some Jews take the view that the only interests which matter are theirs, and that the Holocaust is just a convenient crutch for justifying their own racist policies, actions and violence towards the Palestinians.
Which is pretty much consistent with the way the ****ing Zionists have behaved since 1948 in Israel and internationally, and the rest of the world has allowed them to behave, and largely because the Jews keep playing the irrelevant Holocaust card as if they were the only group which suffered under the Nazis.

BAH! :evil: :evil: :evil:
The palestinians probably are just a tiny part of the entire dirty story. The so called industry of Holocaust carrently is a very profitable bisiness for some pseudo-humanitarian semi-social organisation who is well feeded from it. This is well known fact that up to 70% of money , that GErmany pays for survivours of nazi terror and their relatives is absorbed by countless "organisation" and "funds" whose members usialy has no deal to nazi terror , neither to ww2.I'm not to say ,the great part of it also goes to arming of Israel. That aslo add a problems to that bloody region..

texag57
12-21-2009, 07:47 AM
In Sunday's paper (20 Dec.) the reward was posted as $34,000. The max may not have been reached yet.

Schuultz
12-21-2009, 08:41 AM
Apparently they found it now. They've arrested 3-5 men in Northern Poland, in whose house they found the original sign disassembled into 3 parts.

No info on the motives yet.

texag57
12-21-2009, 09:31 AM
From the Associated Press (on Fox News)
The suspects have not been identified publicly, but Rokita said they were between the ages of 20 and 39 and that their past offenses were "either against property or against health and life," implying that at least one of them has a record of violent crime.

Four of them are unemployed and one owns a small construction company, he said. He would not give any other details.

Four of the five men are believed to have carried out the theft, removing the 30- to 40-kilogram (65- to 90-pound) steel sign from above the Auschwitz gate in the town of Oswiecim, about 50 kilometers (30 miles) west of Krakow.

"It seems they cut the sign up already in Oswiecim, to make transport easier," Rokita said at a news conference in Krakow. It was "hidden in the woods near the home of one of them."

herman2
12-22-2009, 12:12 PM
Ya, they found it, similar storwy here in Toronto!..I saw this movie some time ago, and they were saying that Hitler was sorta smart not having any concentration camps in Germany as to do so, would violate the German constitution or german law...they looked at the reasoning why Hitler never had a single concentration camp in germany...I never researched this, and don't say its true but in the movie they said it was a fact?
http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2009/12/22/12238941.html
WARSAW, Poland — Three men who confessed to the brazen theft of the infamous “Arbeit Macht Frei” (“Work Sets You Free“) sign from the former Nazi death camp at Auschwitz on Tuesday re-enacted the event for investigators who said the crime might have been commissioned.
Polish media have reported, without citing any sources, that a person living in Sweden could be under suspicion.
Krakow police spokesman Dariusz Nowak did not say why investigators were looking at the possibility of the theft being organized, but said Tuesday that “indeed it looks like someone is behind it.”
Nowak said foreign police have been notified and were working on the case but refused to elaborate. Krakow is 50 miles (80 kilometres) from the Auschwitz museum.
Police found the sign Sunday — cut into three pieces and hidden under snow in the woods — and arrested five suspects in northern Poland. Officials said three of the five men have confessed to Friday’s pre-dawn theft of the sign, which is a symbol of Nazi Germany atrocities during World War II.
Prosecutor Piotr Kosmaty said the three who had confessed were taken back to Auschwitz to show investigators how they unscrewed and tore the sign, which weighs 66 pounds (30 kilograms), and is 16 feet (five meters) long, from the gateposts.
Kosmaty said later that the re-enactment gave police some insights, but did not elaborate.
He said the two other men had denied any involvement and, further, denied being at Auschwitz.
In Krakow, police displayed the broken sign for journalists. It was cut into three parts, with each part bearing one of the words. Some of the steel pipe that formed its outline was bent and the letter “i” was missing from the word “Frei” because it had been left behind during the theft. It was recovered at the scene.
Police forensics expert Lidia Puchacz said that cutting and sawing tools used in the theft were found at the home of one of the suspects.
She said experts will be analyzing the sign “millimeter by millimeter” for clues as to how it was cut up and by whom.
Krakow police spokesman Dariusz Nowak said the 115,000 zlotys ($40,000) reward for helping find the sign may be paid out to a number of people.
Prosecutors will decide when the sign could be returned to the museum and whether it will be back in time for the Jan. 27 ceremonies to mark Auschwitz’s liberation by Soviet troops in 1945.
For now, an exact replica of the sign hangs in its place.
After occupying Poland in 1939, the Nazis established the Auschwitz I camp, which initially housed German political prisoners and Polish prisoners. The sign was made in 1940 and placed above the main gate there.
Two years later, hundreds of thousands of Jews began arriving by cattle trains to the wooden barracks of nearby Birkenau, also called Auschwitz II, where they were systematically killed in gas chambers.

Schuultz
12-22-2009, 01:46 PM
Ya, they found it, similar storwy here in Toronto!..I saw this movie some time ago, and they were saying that Hitler was sorta smart not having any concentration camps in Germany as to do so, would violate the German constitution or german law...they looked at the reasoning why Hitler never had a single concentration camp in germany...I never researched this, and don't say its true but in the movie they said it was a fact?

Wrong. Look up Buchenwald.

flamethrowerguy
12-22-2009, 02:11 PM
There were a lot of Concentration Camps in Germany but no "Vernichtungslager" (annihilation camps). These camps (e.g. Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, Sobibor, Majdanek) were knowingly established by the Nazis beyond German soil.