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Deaf Smith
10-17-2009, 10:56 PM
Guys,

I've looked all over the internet for a date as to when the Maxon M45 .50 mount first came into service.

Now seveal sites have alot of the details of the mount, but none say when it was first made for the U.S. Army. Does anyone know here?

Oh, and did they ever make a 20 mm version (to me it would have been the logical thing to do.!)

Thanks,

Deaf

malarz_russ@hotmail.com
11-14-2009, 01:57 AM
Heya, Deaf!

Did some digging but haven't come up with a "hard" date. The Maxson M45 was preceded by the Maxson M33, which was basically the same system mounting only two M2 .50 MG's. The M33 mounted in a M3 halftrack (the M13 Multiple Gun Motor Carriage) was type classified in September 1942. I also know the M45 quad mounted in a M3 was type classified (M16 MGMC) two months later.

As to a 20mm version, there were a few trial vehicles, but nothing more than that. What I've read is that the 20mm gun, originally procured as a Navy weapon, was initially plagued with reliability problems, and so not very popular with the Army.

The Israeli Army had bought large numbers of M3 halftrack based vehicles, including numbers of M16 MGMC's, and rearmed them with 2 Hispano-Suiza 20mm guns and redesignated the TCM-20.

Hope this help!

Russ
Proud son of Rose and Wes

Deaf Smith
11-14-2009, 10:03 PM
Thanks Russ.

I know the Navy made their own weird quad 20mm mount (and I mean weird), the Mark 15 Quad.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_2cm-70_mk234_pics.htm

The navy even tried Maxon .50 quads on a few of the ships

But you would think a quad on the Maxon mount would have been a better design than the Mk 15. Just size it up to match the power of the 20mm.

Oh, well I guess they felt the 40mms were so close in weight to a quad.

Deaf

malarz_russ@hotmail.com
11-15-2009, 02:53 AM
Heya, Deaf!

I know that during early WWII the Navy was in the process on replacing all ship mounted light AA .50cal weapons with 20mm weapons, while, at the same time, the Army was kind of doing the same thing by standardizing the .50cal M2 as the typical vehicle mounted antiaircraft gun, up from .30cal weapons. Also, I can picture the Army not wanting to bring another size of ammo into their system.

As for the Mk 15 mounting, I know the Navy was more fond of the 40mm and it's larger shell versus 20mm, do to the higher lethality against kamikaze attackers. 20mm is perfectly adequate to shoo off a pilot that is interested in surviving his attack, but against suicide attackers the larger ordnance was used to literally "disrupt" the attack.

Not something I'd want to face off against...

Russ
Proud son of Rose and Wes

Deaf Smith
11-16-2009, 08:29 PM
Thanks Russ,

But it's something to see the Germans with their 2 cm Flakvierling 38 quad as the way to go. They had that back in 1940!


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J08339%2C_Ausbildung_an_der_Vierlings-Flak.jpg

Deaf

George Eller
11-16-2009, 10:07 PM
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MULTIPLE CAL. .50 MACHINE GUN MOUNT, M45 "QUADMOUNT"
http://www.robertsarmory.com/quad.htm

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M-45G Quad .50 Cal Walk Around Page 1
http://www.primeportal.net/artillery/dan_rowbottom/m-45g_quad_50/

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http://www.grouchyconservativepundits.com/index.php?topic=4948.0
http://worldwartwozone.com/forums/attachments/land-warfare/9052d1242450374-us-aa-gun-quad-50-11.jpg

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http://rlbphotography.com/blogimages/0091.jpg
http://rlbphotography.com/blog/

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OMAHA MUSEUM QUAD 50 CAL.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/P8iemq4GYaZN3FoJcw6gcQ
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_X3-FxvA2pz4/SInjKi-qRPI/AAAAAAAAAaI/o9IDKBBVsDE/s640/Picture%20199.jpg

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M45 Quadmount 'Quad 50'
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14231599@N03/3800746049
http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif

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http://www.fightingiron.com/images/m16.jpg
http://www.fightingiron.com/FI-Heritage.htm

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M16 with Quad 50 cal. machine guns
http://www.45thdivision.org/Veterans/BirdA160/M16_Half_track.jpg
http://www.45thdivision.org/Veterans/BirdA160.htm

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/17001040@N08/2693113659
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3144/2693113659_5e0ed63347.jpg?v=0

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M16 Halftrack Quad 50 Motor Carriage
http://www.fairfieldmint.com/images/10014kw_open.jpg

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Soldier of New York's 955th Field Artillery Battalion watches the Korean skies for enemy aircraft from an M-3 half track mounting a quad .50 caliber "Sky Sweeper" anti-aircraft gun. NGEF
http://www.michaeldoubler.com/picture5.htm
http://www.michaeldoubler.com/images/Scans/Scan20038.jpg

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malarz_russ@hotmail.com
11-17-2009, 12:57 AM
Great photos, George!

All the halftrack mounted versions are M16 Machine Gun Motor Carriges... the White version, identifiable by the "automobile" type shaped front fenders. The International Harvester halftracks (M5, M17, etc.) had "flat" fenders without the nice double curves of the Whites.

Your pics also show the difference between the early and late M16s... the early models had special rear armor, with fold down flaps at the top edges to allow the quad mount to traverse. Later models had a riser to raise to machine gun turret, and were able to use the standard rear armor. M16's used in Korea, had added "wing" armor on either side of the turret to protect the ammo loaders.

My dad was a member of an AAA unit (90mm), interestingly, the 45th AAA Bn, during his time in the Army (1951 - 1953). He was NCOIC of a section (3) of deuce and a half mounted M45's (to protect the bigger guns).

Russ
Proud son of Rose and Wes

George Eller
11-17-2009, 11:48 AM
Great photos, George!

All the halftrack mounted versions are M16 Machine Gun Motor Carriges... the White version, identifiable by the "automobile" type shaped front fenders. The International Harvester halftracks (M5, M17, etc.) had "flat" fenders without the nice double curves of the Whites.

Your pics also show the difference between the early and late M16s... the early models had special rear armor, with fold down flaps at the top edges to allow the quad mount to traverse. Later models had a riser to raise to machine gun turret, and were able to use the standard rear armor. M16's used in Korea, had added "wing" armor on either side of the turret to protect the ammo loaders.

My dad was a member of an AAA unit (90mm), interestingly, the 45th AAA Bn, during his time in the Army (1951 - 1953). He was NCOIC of a section (3) of deuce and a half mounted M45's (to protect the bigger guns).

Russ
Proud son of Rose and Wes
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You're quite welcome Russ,

And thanks for the information. They were quite deadly as an anti-personnel weapon.



MULTIPLE CAL. .50 MACHINE GUN MOUNT, M45 "QUADMOUNT"
http://www.robertsarmory.com/quad.htm
...The speed of elevation and traverse is proportional to the amount of movement of the handles. The gun sight is located at the top of the mount. Four 200 round ammunition chests are mounted next to each .50 cal. machine gun. The quadmount will elevate, depress or traverse at rates up to 60 degrees per second. Quadmounts were used in both the Pacific and European theaters. As enemy aircraft became less plentiful near the end of the war, the quadmount evolved into an anti-personnel weapon. In Europe when enemy snipers were hidden in trees, it was not unusual to pull up a half-track and quadmount to counter the threat. Instead of firing at the suspected location of the snipers, the quadmount gunner would aim at the base of the trees and fire. The high concentration of projectiles would literally mow down the trees taking out the snipers along with others at the same time. In the Pacific theater, the quadmount was effective against "dug-in" Japanese positions because of its high rate and high concentration of fire. It was affectionately nicknamed the "meat chopper".

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flamethrowerguy
11-17-2009, 05:17 PM
Dunno which version that is but this one was taken right around my corner at Boscheln on December 25, 1944.
http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/143000-2/EGvs_203_2%23

Just last month a farmer in our village "harvested" some .50cal rounds and casings when bringing in the potatoes. It was all over the local news since no one seemed to know what exactly they were dealing with. The summoned ordnance disposal unit from Cologne was able to give all-clear quickly though. Still they wouldn't let me take some photos of the relics...:evil:

George Eller
11-17-2009, 08:50 PM
Dunno which version that is but this one was taken right around my corner at Boscheln on December 25, 1944.
http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/143000-2/EGvs_203_2%23

Just last month a farmer in our village "harvested" some .50cal rounds and casings when bringing in the potatoes. It was all over the local news since no one seemed to know what exactly they were dealing with. The summoned ordnance disposal unit from Cologne was able to give all-clear quickly though. Still they wouldn't let me take some photos of the relics...:evil:
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Flame, looks like you're not far from the Netherlands border and the Dutch city of Maastricht. The German city of Aachen is just to the southwest and Koln (Cologne) a bit farther to the east. The scene of some heavy fighting toward the end of the war in Europe. That is a neat story about the relics that turned up in that farmer's field. A reminder of more violent times...

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Boscheln
Übach-Palenberg, Germany
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22Boscheln%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

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Battle of Aachen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aachen

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1944 The US Army Entering Germany and the Taking of Aachen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em9q4xTj7ww
color video
10-25-1944. The US Army entering Germany and the taking of Aachen. Kodachrome 16mm film.
Soundtrack performed by Altus (Dark Part 4) added (Demo Only) in 2008 by ROMANO-ARCHIVES.

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German War Graves Boscheln
(Germany - Nordrhein-Westfalen -Boscheln)
http://www.ww2museums.com/artikel/2165/map/

Boscheln (Übach-Palenberg) Communal Cemetery contains 38 German War Graves (Kriegsgräber) from the Second World War.

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George Eller
11-18-2009, 12:10 AM
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M45/M51/M55 Quad .50 cal. Gun Mount
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWDlr5LMVC4

M45/M51/M55 Quad .50 cal. Gun Mount
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOgzCL6Rd1o

Quat .50 Cal Browning Anti Aircraft Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a10SG1GEFVI

Quad .50 Caliber Live Fire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m225CyqeEAs

Quad 50 cals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TeRJsBfcpA

Quad .50 Anti-Aircraft Gun Southern Ohio MG Shoot Portsmouth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seitcE7Tf1I

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radovan
02-11-2010, 09:29 PM
Can someone please tell me what kind of quad cannon and what mount i posted the pics on unkown pictures gallery,
thanks

flamethrowerguy
02-11-2010, 11:15 PM
Can someone please tell me what kind of quad cannon and what mount i posted the pics on unkown pictures gallery,
thanks

These should be the ones:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/394950-2/mm_001 (http://www.ww2incolor.com/modern/mm_001.html)

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/394937-4/m (http://www.ww2incolor.com/modern/m.html)